Juno News - Leaving the Left, identity politics & more – a discussion with Candice Malcolm and Lindsay Shepherd

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm with True North and I am very delighted today to be sitting down with

00:00:09.420 Lindsay Shepard who is a True North Investigative Journalism Fellow. Lindsay, thank you for joining

00:00:14.940 us. Yeah, thanks for having me. So Lindsay and I decided for an interview for over Christmas we

00:00:19.620 would sit down and make it kind of light-hearted, have a glass of wine and relax and let the viewer

00:00:24.840 and let the True North nation get to know Lindsay a little better since she is working with us.

00:00:28.620 Lindsay, are you also doing another fellowship as well? Yeah, with the Justice Center for

00:00:33.100 Constitutional Freedoms. I just focus on campus free speech over there. Oh great, okay, yeah. So

00:00:38.160 for us, Lindsay's doing investigative journalism. She's also working on some longer projects,

00:00:42.960 maybe some speaker series things that we're going to be rolling out in the new year so we can get

00:00:47.220 into that a little bit as well in the interview. So I wanted to, there's a whole bunch of stuff that

00:00:52.740 I want to talk to you about today. So in kind of researching, getting ready for this interview,

00:00:56.700 I realized that you and I, we have quite a bit in common. So we both grew up in Vancouver. We both

00:01:01.620 started on the political left and then kind of made a journey over to the right. I think at some

00:01:05.640 point for me it was during university. I think for you as well. What else? We both now work for True

00:01:11.380 North, obviously. We're both vegetarian. We both frequently get mischaracterized by our critics

00:01:17.920 online saying things that are pretty much just not true. And we both are mothers of sons that are

00:01:25.600 almost the same age. Almost the same age. One month apart, right? Yeah. Yeah. We're end of February,

00:01:30.980 I think. End of March. End of March. Okay. So I think, yeah, there's a lot that we can kind of unpack

00:01:35.960 and talk about in that. So I think, you know, everyone knows your story by now. Everyone knows of what

00:01:41.200 happened to you at Wilfrid Laurier. But what about kind of before that? So why don't you talk a little bit

00:01:45.560 about where you grew up, what kind of family you grew up in, and how you came to having a sort of a

00:01:51.020 leftist political perspective, which I think is how you described yourself when you were in university?

00:01:55.600 Yeah, sure. So I was born in Victoria, and my dad lives on the island. My mom lives on the mainland,

00:02:03.540 so in the Vancouver area. I went to elementary school, then to high school. Right after high school,

00:02:10.460 I actually moved out right when I was 17. I moved to Halifax, and I went to Dalhousie.

00:02:16.200 Oh, I didn't know that. Just for one semester. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, I'll move to

00:02:20.640 Montreal. So I went to Concordia University for a year. And then I was like, okay, I just need to

00:02:27.060 like stick to one university and just finish my undergrad. So I went to Simon Fraser, and that's

00:02:31.480 where I got my BA in communication. But otherwise, like, you know, when I look at my identity as a

00:02:40.160 leftist, then it was just kind of it just felt natural. I don't really like I didn't really have

00:02:47.520 a reason to be a leftist. It was just kind of like, that's the default. Okay, I think I was thinking

00:02:53.680 back, it's been a while for me, but I was thinking back to like what it was for me that made me and to

00:02:58.780 me, I always thought it was sort of the idea of like, not equality, but injustice, that there's

00:03:05.320 just like some people who don't have all the privileges in life that, for instance, I did when

00:03:11.420 I was growing up. And so you see like, wow, there's people who are homeless in downtown Vancouver. That's

00:03:15.620 so unfair. There's people who, you know, were victims of, you know, racism or discrimination in

00:03:20.960 their life that prevented them from having that kind of comfortable middle class life. And to me, that was

00:03:26.140 like the kind of pulling factor. And I felt like university like really reinforced that. Did you

00:03:31.180 feel like when you were in university, that the leftist perspective was really just like enforced

00:03:36.240 into you? Or was it something that you felt like you had come to on your own? I think it was enforced.

00:03:42.280 But also, I think what kind of radicalized me was my first year of university, I just kind of spent

00:03:49.020 a lot of time on Tumblr, the social media site Tumblr. And I've actually heard a lot of people say that

00:03:55.160 that's what kind of radicalized them on the left. Yeah, like radical leftism. Yeah. And so I was

00:04:01.460 just constantly following these like social justice blogs. And sometimes I wouldn't initially agree with

00:04:06.860 what they said, but I just figured, oh, like this person is probably bright. And I remember thinking

00:04:11.820 to myself, like, in my dorm room, and like my first month of university, I was like, yeah, we should

00:04:17.540 have open borders. What's the point of borders? And I was like, I was just like, yeah. And I had these

00:04:23.600 really cute muckluck boots, which had like faux fur. And like, they always got compliments and stuff.

00:04:29.980 But I was like, I have to stop wearing these because these look, these are cultural appropriation.

00:04:34.340 I just have to stop. Yeah, so that's kind of like, that was like the extreme. It was really only the

00:04:40.300 first semester of university. And then I started to mellow out. And by the time I left my undergrad,

00:04:46.600 I was really questioning some of the things I was learning. Okay. Yeah. I mean, for me,

00:04:52.780 like, I kind of, I would say I started out as just like a regular liberal. And then I kind of felt

00:04:58.060 like the logical place to go was towards like Marxism. So I took a course in undergrad called

00:05:03.380 like a critique of Marx and Marxism. And that was just the thing for me that just totally blew up my

00:05:09.260 worldview because it was like, there were so many contradictions. And I would like read the text.

00:05:13.600 And I just, I found it was like so intensely laden with like really confusing concepts and words that

00:05:20.260 kind of were like invented. And I, and I would like read it and find contradictions. And I take

00:05:25.180 the contradictions to class, like kind of excited that I had found a contradiction. And then it was

00:05:28.900 like the class, it was a small seminar and they like loved the concert contradictions. So that was

00:05:33.980 like kind of would like feed them and it would make them like even more devoted in their views,

00:05:38.040 which I just felt like that was like nowhere to go. Like it was just so negative and like,

00:05:43.600 such a kind of sad way to view the world. And I feel like you could see that today with like

00:05:48.460 the kind of extreme leftists that they're pretty miserable people. Like they don't have a very

00:05:53.940 optimistic worldview. They kind of see like humans as like the enemy or something. And I see that in

00:06:00.020 the environmental movement as well. Okay. So you finished undergrad and you are already kind of

00:06:05.560 questioning your worldview. And then you went to graduate school. And I think by now, everyone knows your

00:06:10.700 story of what happened. I think I always wondered was like, I mean, you must have known things were

00:06:16.400 going to go sideways. Like what gave you the wherewithal to decide to record your professors?

00:06:21.780 Like, I was trying to think if I was in that situation, I don't even think I would have considered

00:06:26.940 it, you know, to me, it was like, okay, well, Lindsay's going to make a great investigative journalism

00:06:30.660 because she has that instinct that she wants to like have the truth and, you know, try to expose

00:06:35.620 this when he's doing something wrong, something wrong. But like, what was going through your head

00:06:39.320 at that time? Yeah, no, exactly. It was like pure instinct. Like I can't really explain it. But

00:06:44.600 when I first got the email from Professor Rambucana, who was my supervising professor for the course

00:06:51.420 I was TAing at the time, it said, you know, we need to have a meeting. The meeting is going to be in

00:06:56.820 like less than 24 hours. It was scheduled for the next afternoon. And there's going to be an official

00:07:01.420 from the diversity and equity office there. And that was really the trigger word, right? It was

00:07:05.980 like, like me, I have to see someone from the diversity equity office. Like I'm really not

00:07:11.020 the kind of person that needs that intervention. Like this is just really strange. So to protect

00:07:17.340 myself, I'm going to record this meeting. And when you showed the clip of Peterson in the first place,

00:07:23.500 did you know that that was going to be like controversial? Like, did you see him at the time

00:07:27.180 as being like a kind of right wing figure? Um, no, not as a right wing figure. Like I knew he was

00:07:33.820 wrapped up in some controversy because when I first introduced that clip, I asked the class,

00:07:39.100 has anyone here heard of Jordan Peterson? And someone raised his hand and he said he kind of explained

00:07:45.500 the Peterson issue. In a fair way or in a totally fair way. And yeah, some other people in the class,

00:07:52.380 I mean, I had three classes that day, but some other people had heard of him, but had a more

00:07:57.100 negative perspective. Again, like I just saw my role as the neutral moderator, which I later learned

00:08:05.180 is it's very unacceptable to be neutral. Right. And so then after that whole ordeal,

00:08:12.220 would you say that you were already kind of skeptical on the left or like, what was it that kind of

00:08:17.500 pushed you away? Because I think it was shortly after you recorded a video on YouTube,

00:08:21.100 this like why I leaving the left or something. Yeah. When was it that you kind of had that

00:08:26.220 moment of? So first of all, I feel like you always kind of have a latent, like political leaning within

00:08:33.180 you, um, that just kind of needs to come out. But so I would say in my last semesters, my last couple

00:08:40.300 semesters of university of my undergrad, there were just like, I kind of reflect on these moments,

00:08:45.420 um, such as I was in a class. It was a third year political science class. This was my very last

00:08:51.340 semester before I would go off to graduate school. And the professor, you know, he was a very like

00:08:57.500 leftist activist. The class was about like global politics, but we learned about feminism, Marxism,

00:09:02.700 that kind of stuff. Um, and I remember him saying, all these stupid racists are so Islamophobic.

00:09:10.460 Referring to like Canadians or Americans? I can't really remember. Okay. But I remember being like,

00:09:16.940 I put up my hand and I was like, okay, well, um, Islam is not a race, so we should be able to criticize

00:09:22.860 religion. And he's like, oh yeah, the right wing always says that. And I'm like, no, well, it's a problem

00:09:29.180 on the left too. And then, um, these two guys who were like the token conservatives of the class,

00:09:36.140 there was only two of them. One of them comes up to me after the class and he's just like,

00:09:39.900 are you a con? And I'm just like, what? And he's like a conservative. Are you a conservative?

00:09:44.780 And I'm like, no, I'm not. And he's just like, oh, okay. And I was like, I can't believe you would

00:09:50.620 think I'm a conservative. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of remember, I was like always pretty

00:09:55.820 outspoken in university and, um, grad school too. And sometimes I feel alone in a class,

00:10:01.100 but I was debating an issue. And then I'd always have students that came up afterwards. It was like,

00:10:05.100 oh, I totally agree. That was great. I was like, come on. You could have jumped in during the

00:10:09.180 discussion. Yeah. But it was like, I felt like the conservatives were always very quiet in my classes.

00:10:15.420 Um, and so you, you felt like maybe inside you were questioning left. And then when was it that you

00:10:21.100 kind of finally found the courage to kind of come out and say, you know what, I am a

00:10:25.660 conservative because that's, I actually don't know if you, I actually don't back up. I don't

00:10:29.500 know if you identify as a conservative. I don't know if you've had that moment,

00:10:32.300 but to come out, at least say, I'm not on the left anymore.

00:10:34.940 Yeah. So, um, I made a YouTube video in March, 2018, I think it was, which now has over a million

00:10:40.460 views and it was my very like first YouTube video. Um, so that's kind of cool. But I said,

00:10:45.180 yeah, I'm, I'm leaving the left. Um, if you want to call me a right winger, I don't care. If you want

00:10:49.180 to call me a centrist, I don't care. Uh, all I know is I'm not with these leftists anymore.

00:10:54.380 So at the beginning of the Wilfrid Laurier stuff, I was always very upset when people would assume I

00:11:00.060 was a right winger. So I would see these things like this is, she's just part of this right wing

00:11:04.620 plot and she's like a right wing plant. Oh yeah. I remember people were saying,

00:11:07.900 yeah, Peterson must've planted you to test his theory or whatever. And so I was,

00:11:12.860 so I put out a tweet and I was like, I am not a right winger. I am a leftist. And I was always

00:11:18.940 very upset when people would call me a right winger. But now like two years later, I just,

00:11:24.460 if someone called me a right winger, I'd be like, no, yeah, kind of like on some things, I guess.

00:11:30.220 Do you remember like, I know it's hard to kind of go back and dissect like what you were thinking

00:11:34.940 at the time, but like if someone had accused you of being a right winger back then or when

00:11:38.620 that student asked you if you're a con and your instinct was like, no, what was it about conservatism

00:11:44.540 or the right that you just didn't like? Do you think that it was sort of the, the image that

00:11:50.140 is created of the right from like academics and university and the press, or was it something

00:11:54.620 specific about what conservatives believe that you were like, I don't believe that. So I'm not part of

00:11:59.180 them. Yeah. I think it was an image thing. It was like, yeah, these, these people are like

00:12:04.780 Christian fundamentalists who want to take away women's rights and they want to like take away all

00:12:09.500 of our rights. They're only for the billionaires, like stuff, stuff like that. Right.

00:12:13.340 I think that's still the view that a lot of people have. Oh, absolutely.

00:12:16.060 Of the right. And I think that's part of the biggest problem that conservatives have is that

00:12:19.980 they have an image problem. Like all that stuff that you say, I don't think that that's an accurate

00:12:24.700 depiction of the conservative movement or the political right, but the accusations, and a lot

00:12:29.580 of them are much, much worse that you are a racist, you are a xenophobe. The ideas kind of get taken

00:12:35.820 out of context a little. It's not like an intellectually honest debate or level playing field. Cause I,

00:12:40.540 I remember I had the same thoughts about the left when I, or about the right when I was in

00:12:45.020 university as well. Um, okay. So let's move on a little. I know that I said, you know,

00:12:50.940 you and I both get mischaracterized by our opponents. Uh, for me, it's usually like these

00:12:55.020 like weak men who would love to go after True North and love to go after me. Uh, an example,

00:12:59.820 just recently, uh, there was a news story in Yahoo news about us and about True North,

00:13:05.260 and they categorized us as a far right website. And I don't think that there's any like political

00:13:11.820 environment where we would be described as far right. That's just not really what we

00:13:15.820 do. So I just quickly wrote to the editor and said, Hey, look, you know, we're a conservative

00:13:20.300 outlet, you know, we're, we're, we're producing news that's objective. And then our editorial band

00:13:25.020 is a little bit more on the conservative side, but I wouldn't say that's far right. It's not fair.

00:13:28.620 And I was actually quite impressed right away. They, uh, made the change and fixed it, which I think,

00:13:33.740 you know, as long as you go right to it, that they'll feel embarrassed and they'll, they'll make

00:13:39.180 the change at least in that scenario. And I know you had a similar incident. I think it was with the

00:13:43.740 national observer. That's right. Yeah. So Fatima Said, one of the reporters with them, I guess she

00:13:49.260 used to be with the national observer. Um, she was talking about the PPC and how one of their

00:13:54.060 candidates, um, brought me up at a rally. Um, so she described me as like, they brought you up,

00:13:59.340 sorry, just to clarify, like brought you on stage or just, um, just mentioned me. Yeah. So the, uh,

00:14:04.700 one of the candidates mentioned that he, this was David Haskell from Laurier. He's a professor.

00:14:09.820 He just mentioned, he defended me. So he said, um, my name. And then Fatima Said wrote in the article,

00:14:16.220 uh, he brought up notorious white supremacist, Lindsey Shepard. And I hadn't even seen this.

00:14:23.260 Um, and someone brought it to my attention. And then I, I wrote to them because usually

00:14:29.580 these, you know, accusations of far right, white nationalists, it's unfortunate, but they do kind

00:14:34.700 of start to roll off you. It's just kind of like, okay, like you don't get it. I'm not even going to

00:14:38.780 try. Like when it comes to anonymous Twitter accounts. Right. But I thought this is like in

00:14:42.780 print in like a pretty reputable, like news site, at least like among leftists. Right. Um, so I need to

00:14:50.620 do something about this. And so, yeah, I emailed them and they did change it. They changed it to

00:14:56.700 free speech activists. They tried to still make me look bad. Um, but they did change it,

00:15:01.980 which was good because you can't get away with that. I mean, I mean, like I was doing an,

00:15:06.140 I wrote an article recently for true north and, um, it was about a plaque of Cecil Rhodes school being

00:15:13.180 taken down, um, in Vancouver, BC and they described Cecil Rhodes, like in all these news stories as a

00:15:19.180 notorious racist. And it's like, really? So I'm like also a notorious white supremacist. I'm on the

00:15:24.460 same level as like a 19th century imperial, like exploitative, I don't know. Right. Right. Well,

00:15:32.460 and the unfortunate thing with the whole, you know, removal of statues is that usually the reason that

00:15:37.820 we commemorate someone is not because of the racist views that they held. It's usually because they

00:15:42.700 accomplished something. They did something great at the time. And so it's kind of sad that we're

00:15:48.300 imposing our views of today and standards of today onto them. But I think it's really important what

00:15:53.580 you did was just not let them get away with it. And it's exactly the same. Like to me, it's like they

00:15:59.420 describe terrorists and people who showed up mosques as being far right. So then if you're also allowing

00:16:05.260 that term to apply to like an organization like True North, it's like, you know, you could forgive

00:16:11.340 someone for being confused. It's like, you're putting us on the same table, the same level. I think

00:16:15.580 it's deliberate. Yeah, I think it is. It's a smear campaign. Yeah. And I think the same thing with you.

00:16:20.460 It's like the fact that you used to be of the left and then you had a kind of change of heart, a change

00:16:26.860 of mind that that makes you like you create like a vulnerability in the leftist worldview because it's

00:16:32.060 like, okay, if like someone like Lindsay Shepard can change, then like maybe other people can. And

00:16:36.380 so they see it was a threat. So they throw like every accusation they have at you. Yeah. Or like

00:16:43.420 another thing they try to do is act like I changed all of my views because leftists were mean to me

00:16:49.100 and like called me out. And it's like, no, that's not why. Like, I think people need to remember,

00:16:53.900 like I was 22 when all that happened. Like, that's pretty young. I was still in school.

00:16:59.420 Like, you know, you can't always ascribe that to me. You can't always compare me to the 22 year old

00:17:06.140 I was. And I think also a big reason why I was a leftist was, yeah, for environmental reasons.

00:17:12.780 Like you said, I'm a vegetarian, still am. That didn't change because leftists were mean to me

00:17:18.060 or whatever. I still care about like pollution and stopping pollution, animal rights, stuff like that.

00:17:25.980 And so these people who try to say like, oh, my views have changed. Well, like not really,

00:17:31.820 like maybe a couple of policy positions have shifted. But in general, I don't know, not really.

00:17:37.020 Well, yeah, I mean, I offered to like, send you over here in a taxi and you wanted to take transit

00:17:42.460 instead. So I don't know if that was for environmental reasons, but I thought that was pretty. So you don't,

00:17:48.060 you don't drive, you don't drive. Okay. And so what was it that made you a vegetarian? How did you,

00:17:53.980 was it like kind of moral reasons, health reasons? Yeah, like it's pretty simple actually. Like I

00:17:59.980 always had an aversion to meat. Ever since I kind of once cut into a steak and I saw like the veins in

00:18:07.420 it. No, it's just, it really grossed me out when I was a kid. But my mom forced me to eat meat

00:18:13.580 when I lived in her house. Yeah. So once I moved out of her house, I became, I just kind of transitioned

00:18:20.380 into, transitioned into vegetarianism. Okay. Yeah. Part, like a big part of it was watching

00:18:25.420 just a PETA video. Okay. Like, you know, the organization PETA. Yeah. Um, like with factory

00:18:30.940 farming where they're like taking pigs and like slamming their heads against the wall. Like that

00:18:36.620 was just it. Like, yeah. Yeah, no, I think there's something definitely to the idea that some things,

00:18:41.660 like even treatment of animals, inhumane, not necessarily for the animal itself, but like for a

00:18:46.780 human being, it's inhumane for us to like treat another living being that way. For me, I kind of,

00:18:53.420 like for me, it's the same. Like I always just didn't really like meat. I had aversion to it.

00:18:56.780 And then as soon as I stopped eating it, I felt a lot like healthier. And then I kind of like went

00:19:01.820 into veganism, which I think for me was just a little bit too much. I had a vegan roommate when I

00:19:07.020 was in grad school. And so she was like really big into like how you get the right amount of nutrients

00:19:12.140 and you making sure you get protein and stuff. I felt like I learned a lot about that. But then,

00:19:16.140 yeah, when I met my husband, he was like a red meat, like steak eating guy. And I was vegan and

00:19:22.220 like we could never go around restaurants when we're cooking at home. It's just like nothing

00:19:26.300 that we keep. So we kind of like met halfway in the middle. So we're like pescatarian now where we eat

00:19:31.820 like seafood and fish and stuff, but then otherwise. But I always thought it was like

00:19:36.540 kind of interesting how that gets associated with the political left. And when I'm at like conservative

00:19:41.740 events, it's usually hard to find vegetarian options and other conservatives kind of like

00:19:46.060 make fun of me. Like how come you don't eat meat? There's something like culturally like

00:19:50.780 about like vegetarianism and same with environmentalism, which I think is a little

00:19:54.780 unfortunate because I think, you know, caring about the environment shouldn't be something,

00:19:58.940 a domain that's like solely owned by the left who I think have like a very catastrophic alarmist

00:20:04.940 interpretation of what is happening. It's not necessarily helpful to like the planet or whatever.

00:20:10.380 Yeah. Well, I think this is to the detriment of the environmental movement because they are trying

00:20:14.540 to make it kind of like a singular worldview. Like, oh, if you believe in environmental,

00:20:20.300 like being eco-conscious, you also have to believe in like that we have to give the land back to

00:20:25.180 indigenous people. This is indigenous people's land. You have to believe that like colonialism has

00:20:30.220 ruined everything and you have to want to decolonize everything in your daily life. Like it comes with

00:20:34.940 this whole worldview that's imposed on you. And it's like, I think you're turning off a lot of people

00:20:41.340 who actually might be sympathetic to your cause. Yeah, no, that's a good point. I think that a lot

00:20:47.660 of like, like for instance, in the last election, in some ways you could have viewed it as like a

00:20:52.300 referendum on the carbon tax because the liberals, when they introduced it, I thought like, wow,

00:20:56.700 what a stupid policy. It failed when they tried like 10 years ago. They're doing it now. This is like a

00:21:01.420 really just, it's going to be unpopular. Like no one's going to want to pay a tax or anything. Whereas

00:21:06.380 I think polling shows that Canadians are actually okay with an idea, not all Canadians, but you know,

00:21:11.020 maybe a plurality or a majority. So I think that a lot of people are, as you say, like open to the idea

00:21:17.740 of doing something to reduce our carbon footprint or whatever, without wanting to go with that drastic

00:21:23.820 kind of far left message. Yeah. Well, in the recent election, I went to a local debate just in my

00:21:30.380 riding and they had, they had this like polling software, you know, where you use your cell phone

00:21:34.620 and you can, yeah, everything shows on screen. And the top election issue in my riding was the

00:21:41.660 environment and climate change. And at the bottom, unfortunately was immigration. Really? I think

00:21:46.860 it really depends on the location. Yeah. Probably you're riding. Are you in Burnaby? Coquitlam.

00:21:51.420 Okay. Because I know like my parents live in on the North Shore, but it's a part of the North Shore

00:21:56.700 that's in a riding with Burnaby. And like, again, the main issue because the pipeline, like a transplant

00:22:02.860 pipeline would go right through Burnaby mountains. So I feel like it's a local issue for them. Whereas if

00:22:08.540 you live, say in Quebec, where Roxham Road is where 90% of the illegal border crossers or in Toronto,

00:22:13.820 where I live, where there's just like a lot of refugees that go and live there, the immigration

00:22:19.180 issue is a lot more in your face. And you might see the impact of kind of illegal immigration,

00:22:24.220 where I don't know if you see it in your riding. Well, I mean, even at Roxham Road, like in that

00:22:27.820 area, they all get paid off, don't they? So maybe they're for it. Yeah. No, that's like a perfect

00:22:33.100 example of kind of like bribing someone with the taxpayer dollars to like make the issue go away. Okay. So

00:22:40.540 you've been with True North now for... Since October. Okay. So a couple months. Yeah. And you've

00:22:45.500 already broken some huge stories for us. So why don't we go through a couple of the big stories

00:22:50.380 that you've broken for True North. You recently wrote an article about the Ryerson University Student

00:22:55.900 Union, which was torn apart by a social justice kerfuffle. What was that all about in a nutshell?

00:23:02.780 Yeah. So the Ryerson student newspaper originally reported this. So there was, there was all these

00:23:08.860 impeachments going on within the student union. Some of them were because of just not working 40 hours

00:23:15.020 a week like they were supposed to. So that one's pretty straightforward. But the vice president

00:23:20.860 marketing, she wanted the president impeached because there was this whole issue. It's kind of

00:23:27.420 hard to sum up quickly, but I'll try. Take your time. There was a campus event, a non-indigenous student

00:23:35.500 saying Colors of the Wind from Pocahontas. And that didn't make the vice president marketing very

00:23:42.780 happy as she's an indigenous person. She said she was offended. I think she might have used the word

00:23:48.940 traumatized. So then the student union released a statement just kind of defending what had happened

00:23:55.900 and saying, you know, this wasn't so bad. The statement also said the lady who sang the song

00:24:02.540 was indigenous to her own country because she was an international student in Canada.

00:24:07.100 So we have to remember that like, you can be indigenous in a different country. Anyway,

00:24:11.900 so this did not make the vice president marketing happy. She approached the president and said,

00:24:16.780 this is unacceptable. The president got mad at her. And anyway, so just like almost petty infighting,

00:24:23.980 but also with the social justice tinge, like, you know, you don't have to be indigenous to enjoy a

00:24:29.900 Disney film. Or like the whole idea I thought with Pocahontas is it sort of makes you more sympathetic

00:24:36.300 to the indigenous cause. So you would kind of think that a social justice warrior would want

00:24:40.700 that story promoted because it gives the perspective, you know, of someone who is from

00:24:46.140 an indigenous tribe that loves the earth, that wants to teach all these values that people have.

00:24:52.780 Why do you think that they got so tripped up over this social justice issue?

00:24:56.140 Like the student newspaper talked to the VP marketing over at Ryerson. And she said that

00:25:02.300 that song reminded her of other songs that were in Pocahontas. And there was a song called Savages

00:25:07.900 in Pocahontas, I guess. I don't think I've actually seen Pocahontas. And so just like,

00:25:12.060 I guess the song Savages being there was kind of a problem. Interesting. Yeah.

00:25:17.180 I sometimes look at the social justice issue and I just have such a hard time wrapping my head around

00:25:22.780 that. Because like I said, because I spent a little bit of time on the political left,

00:25:27.260 sometimes I can understand where they're coming from when they raise issues. But this one just

00:25:30.780 seems like they're really just trying to get attention or grasping at straws, I guess.

00:25:36.620 Yeah. And I mean, some people's reaction to hearing this kind of story is like,

00:25:41.100 oh, they're just being silly. They're being petty. Like, let's just ignore this kind of silliness. And

00:25:45.740 it's like, well, no, you have to realize like people are getting impeached over this. Like

00:25:50.700 this whole student union is kind of like infighting because of this. And they're going to have like,

00:25:56.140 they're gonna have to elect a new student union now. Like this, this goes beyond, right? And I mean,

00:26:02.940 there's tons of problems with student unions in the first place. So this is just kind of the latest,

00:26:07.980 but it's not, it's not so silly and petty when you think, well, now the president's name is in the news

00:26:15.660 for being impeached. Like, yeah, that can harm their reputation for years, like having a Google

00:26:21.660 footprint like that. Okay, you just put out a new story about five instances in 2019 of things getting

00:26:30.700 renamed. So what was this story about? Yeah, so I wanted to look at some of the top instances of

00:26:39.260 places being renamed and monuments being torn down in Canada in 2019. So whether that's a street name

00:26:46.620 being renamed or, you know, a building name. And I think the five cases showed that there are a variety

00:26:53.500 of reasons why this happens. It's not always because of, you know, leftist activists, right? Like for

00:26:59.100 example, in Brampton, there's a street called Peter Robertson Boulevard. And part of it was renamed to

00:27:06.700 Guru Nanak Way after the founder of Sikhism. So that's the Guru Nanak is the founder of Sikhism.

00:27:15.420 It was his 550th birthday this year. And so they renamed part of a street. And Peter Robertson, who,

00:27:23.340 you know, he's the namesake of the boulevard, he was kind of like, guys, you're setting a precedent by

00:27:28.140 naming a street after a religious figure. But the argument of the city councilors was Brampton has a

00:27:34.860 very large Sikh population. And they're contributing a lot to the country.

00:27:40.620 Yeah, I think it's sort of a dangerous precedent, though, because what you're kind of doing, I mean,

00:27:45.580 I think it's weird in the first place to have a street named after a mayor who's

00:27:49.340 still living. I think that usually these kind of things happen after after the fact. But yeah,

00:27:54.540 I mean, if we're just renaming regions of cities after like whatever the latest dominant group is

00:27:59.820 there, then like 50, 100 years from now, we're basically just going to have these little kind

00:28:05.340 of cultural ghettos where like all the Sikh people live in like one small little area because they

00:28:09.420 want to be around all of the, you know, areas have been renamed after their leaders. And then you don't

00:28:14.220 really have the kind of integration that Canada prides itself on.

00:28:17.820 Yeah. And I think like Peter Robertson, he made the point that if a street had been named after like

00:28:24.300 Jesus or some sort of Christian figure, like there probably would have been quite a bit of outcry.

00:28:30.220 Right. And that's a good point, too, because probably large parts of other populations are

00:28:35.420 Christian and they wouldn't go ahead and do that. Are there any other stories that stand out for True

00:28:41.580 North or anything that you're excited about working on in 2020? So hopefully we'll be bringing in some

00:28:46.940 speakers in 2020, which is very exciting. Some of them might be guests we had on the True North

00:28:52.780 podcast that I interviewed. So we've got some really great minds there. Also, I've got some

00:28:57.900 A tips on the go. So the some access to information and privacy requests, of course, they take a really

00:29:04.460 long time. And the government always asks for extensions and all that. But hopefully they'll

00:29:09.340 come in soon. And but yeah, it's been awesome so far. Great. Yeah, well, we're really excited to have

00:29:14.700 you. Like I said, I think you have that kind of journalist instinct, just, you know, wanting to get to the

00:29:19.100 bottom of things, wanting to explain things, wanting to dig deeper when you see

00:29:22.620 something that doesn't really make a lot of sense. So we're really pleased to have you as part of the

00:29:26.860 team. So one of the other things I wanted to talk to you about today is I know you're an avid reader

00:29:31.820 and you read a lot. So I asked you to bring some examples of your favorite books that you read in

00:29:36.940 2019. So what what were your say, like top three books that you read this year?

00:29:42.860 So I did quite a bit less reading this year, just because I had my son. And I'm sure as you know,

00:29:50.140 your, your time to read just kind of goes out the window, you know. But I still got the chance to read

00:29:56.780 a couple. For me, I found that I started reading baby books, like I was obsessed with reading about

00:30:01.660 sleep training and breastfeeding and all this kind of stuff. So I was still reading a lot, but totally not

00:30:06.220 the same kind of books that I would usually read. True. But so I read Diversity Delusion by Heather

00:30:13.500 McDonald, The Madness of Crowds by Douglas Murray, and unrelated, but probably my favorite of this

00:30:21.580 year was Jane Eyre. Yeah, kind of different pace of reading. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess Diversity Delusion

00:30:30.220 and Madness of Crowds are both on sort of similar topics of the sort of trying to understand the new

00:30:37.020 left, I would say, and some of the priorities, some of the distractions that they have. Can you kind of

00:30:42.620 like compare the two books or which, which should you prefer? Which one do you recommend reading more?

00:30:47.260 So neither really focused on Canada. So the Diversity Delusion was quite focused on the US.

00:30:54.940 I'm totally on the same page as Heather McDonald that, you know, diversity offices at universities,

00:30:59.900 they're just these like apparatuses. Is that the plural word? Apparatuses? I think so. Okay.

00:31:06.540 I don't think it's apparati. Apparati? No, I think it's apparatuses.

00:31:12.460 Okay. They've become these whole things that receive so much money,

00:31:18.220 they have so many staff, and what do they really do? What problem are they really solving? And her

00:31:24.860 conclusion is kind of like, well, they haven't even really proved there's

00:31:29.180 like some sort of systemic racism problem. Like they keep insisting there is one, but like,

00:31:34.620 what is really showing for it? She also talks a lot about like sexual assault rates on campus,

00:31:40.780 and like hashtag me too, and title nine, which is like an American thing.

00:31:48.540 Can you explain title nine? So I think so. I think title nine was basically came in under Obama,

00:31:53.260 and the idea was that funding for college sports was linked to setting up these kind of quasi-judicial

00:32:03.180 bodies that would deal with sexual assault allegations. But what they basically became

00:32:10.220 really is kangaroo courts where there was no due process, where an accusation was basically a conviction,

00:32:15.980 and young men were getting suspended and expelled and having their reputations completely ruined

00:32:20.460 over accusations. And I mean, we all know that, especially for young men and women in college

00:32:25.420 settings, you know, there's a lot of times there's accusations that are not entirely accurate,

00:32:31.020 accusations that come out of sort of revenge or spite, not necessarily fact. There's also a lot

00:32:37.020 of alcohol involved in these kind of events. So the truth is not always easy to disertain. So

00:32:42.300 yeah, my understanding is it's just basically social justice run amok, and actually having the impact

00:32:51.500 to ruin a young man's life without really having the due process that they would deserve.

00:32:55.820 And you know, with these kind of complaints, even just the complaint hovering over you,

00:33:00.700 let's say it was proven wrong, you're innocent, even the fact that a complaint was made,

00:33:05.900 it still kind of tarnishes you. Because people might still have at the back of their mind like,

00:33:09.980 hmm, yeah, maybe you were let off. But what's the real story here? There was still a complaint

00:33:15.100 made against you. So I that's what I think is it still tarnishes you. Oh, for sure. I mean,

00:33:19.340 look at Jiang Gmeshi. I mean, this is a very high profile case where I'm sure that he did act

00:33:23.660 in a very inappropriate way in many times. But when it came to the court, he was found innocent. He was

00:33:29.900 he was not guilty, and he was acquitted of the charges against him. But that didn't save his career

00:33:33.980 or his reputation, because once all the accusations had been made, that was kind of enough. And again,

00:33:39.180 I think that Jiang Gmeshi probably did act in a very inappropriate way, just not in the same way

00:33:44.300 that was described by those who put the allegations against him. But yeah, in so many cases, the

00:33:50.140 allegation is worse than the actual conviction. Okay, and so madness of crowds, I guess it takes on a

00:33:58.540 totally different, I mean, this similar theme and a similar idea of like the kind of woke left and how

00:34:03.900 they've run amok, becoming more and more like totalitarian in their beliefs. But not so much

00:34:09.580 focused on universities, focused kind of more broadly. Yeah. So he covers four sections. So

00:34:16.620 there's he names the sections gay, women, race and trans, I think. So he goes into those topics. And

00:34:25.740 like, I really love Douglas Murray's work. I've read his previous book, The Strange Death of Europe.

00:34:31.100 And that's probably one of my all time favorite books. This one I found, if you're someone who is

00:34:36.700 like, keeping super up to date on Twitter, and just like following these cultural issues,

00:34:43.180 this would probably be more of a refresher. Like you've probably already heard of these things.

00:34:47.660 But still, it's good to have it all in one place. And I think what stuck out for me, what stuck out for

00:34:52.700 me about this book was, in the trans section, he calls for sympathy and empathy. And I am completely

00:35:00.380 on board with that, you know, like, people who say the word tranny, for example, like, I wouldn't use

00:35:05.020 that word. Because yeah, it alienates people. He talks about like, parents who find out they have a

00:35:10.700 trans child, and they're just trying to do some research on the internet, find out what's kind of

00:35:14.540 happening here. But then when they see all this like vitriol directed towards trans people, they're just

00:35:19.740 kind of like, whoa, like, I'm not on board with these people. Like, I'm trying to figure out what's

00:35:23.980 happening with my kid. So he really calls for just level headedness, which is a good reminder.

00:35:31.420 Yeah, so I also read both these books. And I feel like, if you're someone like me, or you, who's like, so

00:35:37.500 entrenched in the kind of front lines of the cultural wars, everything, like, you don't really, like, like,

00:35:43.820 learn a lot of new examples or anecdotes, you know them all. But I felt like Douglas Murray just had

00:35:49.260 such a clear way of explaining the issue. The issue, in some ways, when you're in the middle of it,

00:35:54.460 it's so complex, and you're trying to interpret and understand this changing world around you. And

00:35:58.780 and Douglas Murray has this ability to kind of step back and explain it, you know, yesterday,

00:36:03.660 something that was okay, well, it's no longer appropriate today. And how are you supposed to

00:36:08.140 navigate that? And I agree that the transaction, he kind of starts from intersex and explaining how

00:36:15.820 that's sort of something that has existed across cultures and across time, and that we should start

00:36:21.500 at that point to try to understand how to accommodate people with different sort of circumstances,

00:36:27.580 as opposed to the sort of kind of, I mean, it's just wild, the way that the left has sort of created

00:36:35.180 this dichotomy on the trans issue that if you're critical in any way of a trans person, it's because

00:36:40.540 you hate them, and you don't want them to exist as a human being. The latest example was with JK

00:36:46.300 Rowling, that she just tweeted that, you know, it's okay to state a biological truth. And, you know,

00:36:53.820 in some ways, I read that, and I'm like, wow, this must be a cultural turning point. Because I think that

00:36:59.020 there's a couple of other examples of just sort of the mainstream tiring of this sort of like far left

00:37:05.500 trope that they push out, and more and more people kind of speaking out and just saying what everyone thinks.

00:37:11.500 But then you start to read the replies on her tweet, and you see the true derangement. And, you know,

00:37:17.500 someone, you do kind of feel for someone, like someone replied, like, you know, I'm trans, and I used to read

00:37:23.420 Harry Potter to escape from my life. And I always wondered, like, what would happen if there's a trans person at Hogwarts?

00:37:28.860 Well, I saw so many comments like that. I honestly, I don't really sympathize with that.

00:37:33.020 Well, yeah, I think that's kind of like manipulative and like gross.

00:37:35.740 It's crazy. I totally agree that it's like, they're kind of saying, like, how dare you even

00:37:41.580 question the kind of biological and exactly, it's so manipulative that you can't feel sympathetic.

00:37:47.260 It's almost just like, you just roll your eyes. And it's hard to imagine that so many people are

00:37:51.340 still so sympathetic to that perspective. Do you think the tides are turning? Or do you think that

00:37:56.220 we're still kind of in the midst of in the thick of it?

00:37:59.020 I think the tides are turning. I'm finding, I mean, I've only been involved in these debates for

00:38:04.700 the past, you know, two years. But I don't know, from my observation, it's becoming easier to talk

00:38:10.540 about trans issues. And things like when you see Rachel McKinnon, who's a male to female transgender

00:38:19.420 person, winning in women's sports, like specifically in cycling. That's the kind of stuff that happens

00:38:26.780 that makes people think, this has gone too far. Or like, this is not okay. Like, you're clearly

00:38:33.340 different, yet you're entering in women's sports and winning, and even setting a world record. Like,

00:38:39.260 this is the kind of stuff that happens that changes people's minds. So I think it has become easier to

00:38:43.980 talk about trans issues, while simultaneously, it's become harder to talk about immigration issues.

00:38:51.500 Well, I think immigration is always tough. But kind of to what we were talking about earlier,

00:38:56.860 that the left has done such a good job of framing the issue. So if you oppose immigration, according

00:39:02.540 to the left, it must be because you hate immigrants. Like, it can't be about, you know, the rule of law,

00:39:07.980 or being against illegal immigration, or about being worried about integration. Any of the,

00:39:12.700 I think, like, the legitimate issues you bring up, it's solely because you just don't like people

00:39:17.260 who don't look like you. And I think they've kind of done, in some ways, an effective job of that.

00:39:21.740 Although, I find it so silly that when I get that accusation all the time, I just really just, like,

00:39:27.100 laugh at it, because it's so absurd to me. It's such an intellectually lazy argument, and yet,

00:39:32.460 sadly, you see it all the time. And now, in Canada, we have a Minister of Diversity

00:39:37.820 and Inclusion, and youth, but like, Minister of Diversity and Inclusion. And like, part of the

00:39:43.180 mandate, it's a very vague mandate, because, again, these diversity inclusion people, they don't

00:39:47.980 really do anything. So, like, part of the mandate is anti-racism. And so they frame that word in a way

00:39:55.660 of like, of course, you have to be an anti-racist, because otherwise, you're a racist. But it's like,

00:40:00.700 no, we know that really anti-racism activism means, like, open borders, adhering to certain ideologies,

00:40:11.500 celebrating diversity and multiculturalism no matter what, and like, you have to be super happy

00:40:16.540 about everything no matter what. Yeah. Well, even especially about, like, language, and like,

00:40:21.260 the idea that we should celebrate people speaking foreign languages and not speaking English, or not

00:40:26.700 learning English. I mean, there's, to me, the inclusion and diversity, or diversity inclusion

00:40:32.940 office is like, a solution in search of a problem. Like, there are all these social justice warriors

00:40:38.060 that want, like, a vocation and profession. So they created, like, one out of thin air, where the

00:40:43.340 busybodies, where you look at the actual mandate, and to me, it's like they're promoting division and

00:40:48.140 racism, because there's sort of like a new word that I hadn't really heard much in public policy and

00:40:53.100 public debate until maybe two years ago, the idea of someone who's racialized, which I guess just

00:40:58.220 means, like, someone who's not white. But the idea that, like, we would create a new category of people

00:41:03.020 that are racialized, like, it's like something had happened to them, like, they've been, like, someone

00:41:08.300 has done something to them, they've been racialized. Whereas really, the only ones that are racializing

00:41:14.620 are these diversity inclusion people who are, like, obsessed with kind of pushing quotas and pushing

00:41:20.460 division and saying, like, no, no, you're different. Like, you know, you could be an immigrant to Canada

00:41:25.100 who doesn't speak English, who has just as much struggle with integrating and with becoming, like,

00:41:30.620 comfortable in Canada, who happens to be from a European country as someone who isn't, right? Like, the idea

00:41:37.660 that you can only suffer in any way if you don't have, like, if you look a certain way, to me, again, that's

00:41:43.580 like, promoting racism, which is kind of what they do. I have seen some pushback from racialized people

00:41:51.260 against the word racialized, because their point is, okay, well, by using this word, you're still

00:41:57.100 centering white people, because there's white, and then there's racialized, there's just everyone else.

00:42:02.700 Right. It's like, what are they actually trying to accomplish by this? It's like, making white people

00:42:08.220 feel uncomfortable, and making everyone else want to talk about their race. Like, I just don't see

00:42:13.820 any good in pushing conversations where we're forced to talk about something that's, I thought,

00:42:19.340 the left's idea was that race was sort of like a social construct, and that biologically we're not

00:42:24.860 very different at all. So why is it that, you know, we're so focused on something that's not supposed

00:42:29.820 to, that's supposed to be superficial and, you know, not something that actually has, like, internal,

00:42:35.820 as Douglas Murray would say, like, hardware. It's not, it's a software, not a hardware issue.

00:42:40.220 Well, I do remember from my classes, they would address this. They'd say,

00:42:44.060 yes, race is a social construct. And I remember that the professor saying it, he's like,

00:42:48.540 I know that might be really hard for some of you to hear. Like, this might be totally new to you,

00:42:54.380 but I need you to listen. Race is a social construct. But that doesn't mean that the effects

00:43:01.180 of racism aren't real. So that's how they kind of deal with that.

00:43:04.700 Okay. But then again, like, I think that a lot of times what happens is that we take

00:43:08.940 historical issues in, like, other parts of the world, and we impose them onto Canada. So

00:43:13.980 he would say, like, okay, XY people were oppressed in some other part of the world. Canada is a pretty

00:43:18.540 open, accepting country. I don't think we're perfect by any means. But relative to every other country on

00:43:24.860 the planet, I think Canada does a pretty good job. Instead of celebrating that, instead, we're, like,

00:43:29.500 forcing ourselves to, like, find the worst examples of racism so that we can point to that and make

00:43:33.980 everyone feel lousy. Yeah. And, like, a part of this is when you see these, um, racists. So let's take

00:43:41.740 the recent example. There was a woman in, um, Shopper's Drug Mart. And she, I guess the staff were

00:43:47.420 speaking Mandarin in front of her, and she was telling them to speak English. And she was berating

00:43:51.820 them. She was being way too aggressive. Absolutely. I think she might have been cursing too. Um, but people

00:43:57.820 then film these incidents, and there's lots of them happening. Always taken out of context,

00:44:02.380 so you never see the full... Yeah, but I would agree that usually these people are being way too

00:44:07.020 aggressive. Um, they're obviously provoked and they're angry. Obviously, these people are not

00:44:14.220 representative of everyone. These people are probably a little more unhinged. Like, the ones who are willing

00:44:20.460 to go on racist rants in public, these are not good representatives of who we are as a country,

00:44:26.300 I don't think. But they're used as examples of why we're such a terrible country, so. Yeah, and, like,

00:44:32.620 just because there's one crazy person doesn't mean that they represent everyone. Like, when you see

00:44:37.020 someone, the reason that it's news, the reason it's noteworthy is because it's such an exception. And if,

00:44:42.780 you know, you, if you ever interacted with someone like that, you would probably call them out,

00:44:46.460 even if it wasn't, you know, your group that they were denigrating. And if that person was,

00:44:51.660 like, a friend of yours, you probably wouldn't be friends with them if you saw an outburst like that,

00:44:55.420 so. I watched an interview that you did, um, I can't remember who, who the host was. Something

00:45:01.260 like Girl Talk or something like that. Oh, yeah. And you described something that I hadn't, I kind of

00:45:05.260 only vaguely was aware of, but it was, like, trad life and how these kind of, like, very traditional

00:45:10.220 conservative values are, like, coming back in vogue. Like, it's kind of, like, cool now to be, like, a stay-at-home

00:45:15.500 mom. Can you kind of talk a little bit about that? Yeah, so I think it's a very small subculture.

00:45:21.740 Okay. Um, mostly, I mean, I've only found out about it through Twitter and YouTube and, and all that.

00:45:28.220 Um, but we do see it kind of coming out, like, so recently, like, Stefan Molyneux, he tweeted about

00:45:35.820 Taylor Swift turning 30 and her, like, losing her eggs or something like that. And it got a lot of

00:45:42.620 flashback because people are, like, why are you worried about her egg count? And it's kind of,

00:45:47.740 like, a creepy observation or, like, I don't know, it's, like, not his business, but. Right. And, like,

00:45:52.460 yeah, why are you worried about her fertility? Um, but, yeah, so there, he's, I wouldn't say he's really

00:45:58.220 in the trad subculture, but there are people who maybe probably describe themselves as right-wing or

00:46:04.700 maybe even far-right and they just really believe in rigid gender roles. So the man is, like, the

00:46:11.660 provider. He goes out and works and the woman is a stay-at-home mom. Um, and that's how she finds her

00:46:18.220 purpose and all that. And I find it interesting. Um, I think there are maybe some lessons to be learned

00:46:24.700 in a society that kind of completely wants to reject gender roles. But at the same time, like,

00:46:31.100 I mean, I consider myself a stay-at-home mom, but also I really enjoy the work that I do, like,

00:46:36.540 for True North, right? Like, that keeps me intellectually engaged. Um, especially when we look at how

00:46:44.380 mothers, are they really, like, connected in Canadian society today? I don't know. I mean,

00:46:49.820 you can go to a mom's group or whatever. Um. Do you do that? Do you have any mom group that you go to?

00:46:54.380 Um, no. Online or anything like that? No. No? No. I just, I don't really want to talk about, like,

00:47:02.060 mom stuff all the time. Okay. You know? Yeah. So, and I'm not saying, like, all moms do that,

00:47:06.780 but I just don't really want to talk about, like, oh, my kid did this and my kid did this and my kid's

00:47:12.780 at hockey practice. Like, I just don't really want to do that. Yeah. Yeah. I find that, so I do, I go to,

00:47:19.100 like, a mom group and I love it just because it gives me an opportunity for my son to play with

00:47:23.340 other little kids that are around his age and I feel like it helps him even developmentally. Like,

00:47:27.340 he goes and then we come home and he's, like, trying to do new things that he hadn't tried

00:47:31.660 before but he'd obviously seen other kids doing. But I totally get your point that sometimes, like,

00:47:37.740 it can kind of devolve into just, like, a bunch of ladies complaining about, like,

00:47:41.340 things that are really, like, minuscule or whatever. Yeah, like, I downloaded this app. I downloaded

00:47:46.860 this app called Peanut. Have you heard of it? No, I haven't. It's, like, branded as the Tinder

00:47:51.420 for moms. So, like, it's to make mom friends and so I downloaded it for a day and it's, like,

00:47:57.180 when you see a mom profile that you like, you can, like, swipe left or right if you want to,

00:48:01.900 like, be friends with her. And I just found that, like, I don't know if it was just my geographical

00:48:07.100 area, like, where I was swiping, but, like, every single mom was just, like, I like reality TV,

00:48:13.420 red wine, and my fur babies as well as my babies. And I was just kind of like, okay,

00:48:19.260 like, honestly, I kind of like those things too. Wait, what is fur babies? Like, dogs and cats.

00:48:24.140 Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, I like, I kind of like those things too, but you kind of need to differentiate

00:48:29.660 yourself in a profile, you know? So I was just like, okay, I'm going to delete this app. Well,

00:48:33.660 I was going to ask you, like, do people put their kind of parenting philosophy? Because I feel like

00:48:37.980 when you're looking for mom friends, you kind of want to meet other women that might share your

00:48:43.020 ideas about, like, for instance, if you go on a play date, and again, not to judge other people,

00:48:47.740 because everyone's different, but, like, you go to their house, and maybe they just, like,

00:48:51.260 have a TV on, and they're serving, like, sugary snacks or something, and you might be like,

00:48:55.900 oh, okay, that's not really what I want, or something like that. Yeah, I mean, like, on my profile,

00:49:01.180 what I wrote was, um, if you like the idea of bringing your kid to drag queen story hour,

00:49:07.340 we probably won't get along. That's what I wrote, and I don't think I had many matches.

00:49:11.740 Did you get, like, hate messages? No, I just, no one wanted to be my friend.

00:49:16.060 They probably didn't understand, or they were like, wow, this lady's very political.

00:49:22.220 Whatever, it was just a trial period. Yeah, but do you feel like you have, like,

00:49:26.460 strong views about, like, how you want to raise your children, or are you kind of more, like,

00:49:31.340 relaxed and open-minded about it? I've seen quite a bit of research that says

00:49:36.220 your kid kind of just is who they are, and, like, I mean, there are even some studies that say

00:49:42.620 your parenting has barely any influence on that kid. They're just genetically, they are who they're

00:49:48.060 meant to be, um, and so I find that interesting. Kind of like the nurture nature argument that, like,

00:49:55.260 it doesn't really matter how often you reach your kids, but the fact that you have books in your

00:49:59.420 house says a lot more about, like, the kind of education levels that you and your family have

00:50:04.380 that will, like, determine their outcome. I'm kind of like a mix, like, it's nurture and nature,

00:50:09.580 but I kind of think, I, to me, I try to be, like, pretty rigid because I think that kids need

00:50:15.900 boundaries and structure and that kind of thing. Yeah, but, like, do I adhere to any parenting

00:50:20.860 philosophy? Like, no, not really. That's good. It's good to be open-minded. Well, Lindsay,

00:50:25.900 it's been such a pleasure to sit down and get to know you a little bit better. We're so delighted

00:50:29.420 to have you as a part of our True North organization. We're really excited about all the things that we

00:50:33.820 have planned for 2020, so thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for sitting down and having

00:50:39.420 a glass of wine with me, and hopefully we'll do it again. Cheers.

Juno News - December 30, 2019

Leaving the Left, identity politics & more – a discussion with Candice Malcolm and Lindsay Shepherd

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