Juno News - May 24, 2026


Legacy media pounces on Poilievre's office shakeup

Mentioned
Pierre Poilievre Steve Outhouse George Ann Burke Mark Carney Ian Todd Katie Merrifield Kelly DeRitter Marilyn Gladue Andrew Scheer Matt Jenneru Michael Ma Joe Rogan Doug Ford Harper Trump
Alberta separatists FURIOUS over Smith’s referendum question Constitutional lawyer Keith Wilson breaks down Smith's referendum plan

Episode Stats


Length

17 minutes

Words per minute

175.16

Word count

3,066

Sentence count

176

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Globe and Mail reports that Tory strategist Ian Todd is leaving the party, and the party is looking for a new chief of staff to replace him. We talk to political strategist Georgianne Burke about who might replace him, and why he might not be a good fit.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Well, another member of the Conservative Party leader
00:00:07.600 Pierre Polyev's office is leaving.
00:00:10.580 Chief of Staff Ian Todd is retiring.
00:00:13.760 That follows the departure of Director of Communications Katie Merrifield.
00:00:18.660 The Globe and Mail was quick to seize on the departures
00:00:21.440 as a sign the party is retooling after the Liberals
00:00:24.500 gained their majority through floor crossings.
00:00:27.600 This quote from the Globe and Mail story,
00:00:30.740 the defections and slumping poll numbers have lowered morale in caucus.
00:00:35.820 Conservative MPs have taken to checking their local polling numbers weekly
00:00:40.360 and gaming out amongst themselves how many of them will lose their seats next time.
00:00:47.480 The questions of who might replace Mr. Polyev and when are quietly being raised within the ranks,
00:00:54.080 though no challenger has declared themselves.
00:00:57.740 Our guest today is communications expert and political strategist,
00:01:01.820 Georgianne Burke of Pathway Group.
00:01:03.700 Welcome to the show, Georgianne.
00:01:05.280 Thanks, Mark.
00:01:06.460 What do you make of that quote in the Globe and Mail story?
00:01:10.640 If wishes were fishes, you know, that's all their wishful thinking.
00:01:17.620 I don't, listen, of course, people, some people in the party are probably unhappy.
00:01:24.080 with the outcome of the election with the outcome of the the i mean i don't know if i'd be unhappy
00:01:30.080 i'd be outraged at the way that um uh carney engineered his majority uh i don't know how
00:01:37.520 anybody sees that a legitimate it may be legal but it's not legitimate and um uh you know so i
00:01:43.840 understand there may be feelings about that but i haven't heard anything about anyone saying oh i
00:01:48.720 I think I'm going to lose my seat or maybe we should see who we can have
00:01:52.700 replace Pierre, except the usual naysayers who aren't, by the way, in caucus.
00:01:58.420 They're usually these whiners out in our party's ranks who are always whining
00:02:02.640 about something. 0.90
00:02:03.280 They're never happy about anything.
00:02:04.820 So I don't know who the Globe and Mail is talking to.
00:02:07.620 They surely did not call me.
00:02:08.940 I can assure you of that.
00:02:11.300 Not that I would expect them to, but they wouldn't have gotten that answer
00:02:14.420 for me. 0.77
00:02:15.960 Those whiners had the option of crossing the floor. 0.95
00:02:18.720 along with the other four. I mean, if they were that unhappy, they always had that option, I
00:02:25.400 suppose. Yeah. And the fact is that I know that there were people that were reached out to who
00:02:31.580 said, no, they're not interested. One of them being Kelly DeRitter, who stated flat out that
00:02:37.020 she told them no. And there were a couple of others, I guess, a couple of others who said
00:02:43.660 pretty clearly that they were approached and they were not interested. Listen, I think the people
00:02:52.040 that did leave had reasons for their unhappiness. I said that the guy from Nova Scotia was never
00:02:57.340 conservative anyway. I know people don't like to hear that, but he wasn't. Matt Jenner was a
00:03:02.420 surprise to me. I don't know what was behind that at all. I don't understand it. I'm not close enough
00:03:09.660 to him, but I kind of knew him a little bit through the Andrew Scheer campaign. I just was,
00:03:13.780 it didn't seem in character for him. Marilyn Gladue was a personal, as I told you before,
00:03:19.600 a very personal kind of slap in the face to me and highly disappointing. But I know what she's up,
00:03:27.240 what she's about on this. She wanted to get things for her riding and they promised her she would.
00:03:31.360 And I don't think she's going to run again the next time. I think she knows that she's toast
00:03:35.840 anyway. So she figures she'll get what she can now. She doesn't need the money. She doesn't need
00:03:40.360 to stay in the House of Commons. She's quite comfortable. She had a great career in engineering.
00:03:46.900 So for her, whatever. And Michael Ma, I'm not shocked at all about him. He's a guy who
00:03:53.880 was questionable from the very beginning about where his loyalties actually were lying.
00:03:59.040 and he went over very comfortably, fit right in right away with Carney and went to Beijing with
00:04:06.900 him and whatever else went on over there. Not a good situation. The other people that were
00:04:12.120 approached were not interested. That's because they're actual conservatives and actually care
00:04:15.940 about the party. Pierre isn't going anywhere. Yes, he is making changes in his office. I think
00:04:22.500 I told you yesterday, personally, I was not unhappy with the change of Ian Todd. I think
00:04:29.940 it's time. He's been around a long, long time and held many roles. And I think that the
00:04:36.860 guy that replaced him, Steve Outhouse, who is someone I have known also for many, many
00:04:41.160 years, is a very different personality, is a very different style of leadership, and
00:04:46.960 think will be appropriate, a good counterbalance to Pierre over the next while because one of the
00:04:53.920 things that has to happen is that there has to be some work done just generally speaking with
00:05:00.880 caucus which has always been a weakness of our party. We aren't good handling our caucus,
00:05:05.040 managing them, making them feel loved. You have to. It's like any good leader has to treat their
00:05:12.640 their staff with love and respect otherwise they don't they might you know work for them for a
00:05:18.060 while but eventually they're going to lose them so um it's not that Pierre doesn't care but Pierre
00:05:22.940 is a busy guy and can't do everything so he needs somebody there who's going to pick up the slack
00:05:26.440 and Steve's a good guy for that um and Steve also understands the nuts and bolts of campaigning
00:05:31.660 and will build his team around finding people that can help him um now and at the time when
00:05:40.020 there's an election so that we're prepared. One of the big problems, and this is not a problem
00:05:46.520 specifically to Pierre, it's a problem since 2011. In 2011, the Conservative Party dismantled
00:05:54.620 itself. I don't know why. Well, I do know why. Somebody actually said to me, oh, we're in
00:05:59.660 government now. Government can do everything. I was like, that's insane. Government can't do
00:06:05.220 everything, first of all. Secondly, what happens when you're not in government anymore? You've
00:06:08.420 dismantled the party and you have no structure the party is forever government is comes and goes
00:06:13.800 well sure enough in 2015 it went and they had no party structure it never really recovered from
00:06:18.900 that so I think one of the jobs that Steve has is to rebuild the party and to create new structures
00:06:25.740 in the party and you know the OLO is an extension of that create new structures in the party that
00:06:32.900 will complement what the OLO is doing on policy and on government. You need the conservative
00:06:40.400 party to reflect that in the activities that they're doing. And you need people who know how
00:06:44.300 to make that the crossover between the two. So I think Steve's capable of that. He understands
00:06:50.100 both sides. He's been chief of staff to a premier. He's been a staffer to many people on the Hill.
00:06:59.300 He's been a campaign manager extraordinaire across the country.
00:07:04.220 He's got a lot of experience and skill, and I think he'll be a good change.
00:07:09.480 What about Pierre himself, his presentation?
00:07:15.060 Some people really like it, the hard-hitting aspect to his approach.
00:07:21.460 And, you know, the fact that he has been a fighter.
00:07:23.680 I mean, I think he's galvanized a lot of support, especially on the right, from the right wing of
00:07:28.480 the party. But there are those who think he went, maybe went too far or, you know, that he should
00:07:33.760 be softer and more gentler, kinder, gentler leadership. Do you think that the image that
00:07:42.260 he's going to be presenting to Canadians, that that needs to change? Or does he, does Pierre just
00:07:46.840 need to be Pierre? Well, the worst thing you can do is try to be someone you're not. Everyone
00:07:52.480 picks out a phony in about four seconds. I think the thing that actually helped him
00:07:57.040 over the last few years is he was actually being more himself. I'll tell you this, I've known him
00:08:04.400 for a very long time since he was just out of university and working for Stockwell Day carrying
00:08:09.200 his briefing books around. He was a very different guy then than he is now. He was young, you know,
00:08:16.320 know, footloose and fancy free. Now he's a married guy with two young kids, one kid who has a
00:08:22.400 disability. He has family responsibilities. He has a mom who is not well. His dad is also not well.
00:08:29.780 He has responsibilities for them. He, you know, he has his brother, he has, you know, his family
00:08:34.940 that he's very devoted to. And he's got a big, big job to do. So you have someone who's mellowed
00:08:41.280 a little bit. Okay. But he still has very strong views on principle. Um, I think that if he gave
00:08:49.380 up those things, or if he tried to cover them up or tried to soften them down, people would right
00:08:53.500 away think he was a phony. Um, so he has to find a way to, he has to use what is, I think one of
00:09:01.100 his greatest skills, which is the way he communicates to ordinary people. He's very good at
00:09:05.900 that he makes the the greatest videos and um does he did that interview with joe rogan i thought was
00:09:13.260 fantastic uh because you got to see a side of pierre that nobody ever sees like i honestly
00:09:19.180 kind of knew a little bit about his love for the sporting world but you know i finally like like
00:09:25.060 enough already man like i don't want to know anymore about this mixed martial arts and and
00:09:29.360 you know the fighting stuff but he loves that stuff and obviously knows a lot about it there
00:09:33.860 isn't very much that he does that he doesn't learn a lot about um i think it's it's interesting for
00:09:38.660 people to watch it and see who he is as a person um it is very important too that he gets out as
00:09:45.060 much as he can um and they know that so that means that they've got to have a really solid
00:09:49.560 hard-working opposition leader's office with fresh faces in it with some fresh ideas in it
00:09:55.520 um with the party also having maybe some fresh faces and fresh ideas there too
00:10:01.660 They need to get their game up.
00:10:04.300 They've got time.
00:10:05.780 They're still raising money like crazy.
00:10:07.520 They're still the best fundraisers of all the parties in the country.
00:10:11.620 And it's because conservatives are very loyal to the party.
00:10:15.860 So their problem isn't money.
00:10:17.880 They need to use their resources wisely and start planning ahead for how the party is
00:10:22.700 going to grow and be strong, not just for the next election, but create an entity that
00:10:30.260 will exist and be strong into the future. And what approach should they take as far as the
00:10:37.080 government is concerned, as far as the prime minister is concerned? He's come under attack
00:10:41.040 from members of the media, which is what they do, but suggesting that he's too divisive,
00:10:47.320 that he should be on Team Canada along with Carney. In other words, you know, everybody just
00:10:52.680 get together, you know, the Doug Ford approach, you know, let's all just be on the side,
00:10:57.300 It's all saying from the same page, you know, don't be an opposition leader, just be part
00:11:02.580 of what we're doing here.
00:11:04.580 You know, how should he approach that?
00:11:07.100 They must have missed that lesson in civics where the opposition leader's job is to oppose.
00:11:14.220 Okay.
00:11:14.740 It doesn't mean you oppose without thought, but I will tell you that Mark Carney's approach
00:11:19.860 to governing is the polar opposite.
00:11:22.740 It isn't like it's similar.
00:11:23.860 It's the polar opposite of the way that Pierre believes in governing the country.
00:11:28.440 And he has a duty to point out the places where he puts the country in danger.
00:11:34.040 And I feel, I mean, just personally, I watch what's going on and I'm horrified seeing the shift away from the U.S. towards China, all based on some fake, you know, anti-U.S. sentiment that got these guys elected.
00:11:51.740 I mean, I don't know if it's fake. I think they used anti-U.S. sentiment in the population to get themselves elected.
00:12:00.280 Not not not good. Right. You know what I'm saying?
00:12:04.080 So I think that they actually have to continue to oppose.
00:12:11.020 He should do it always thoughtfully and with, you know, reasoned and backed up by fact.
00:12:16.700 But he does. The media is never going to be his friend.
00:12:20.380 That is just a fact.
00:12:22.140 And if we expect them to start reporting and saying, look, what a great job Pierre is doing, opposing, they're never going to do it.
00:12:29.160 They just won't do it.
00:12:30.280 They would talk, if the liberals were opposing, they would be talking day and night about all the things that they were doing right.
00:12:37.120 They can't do that with conservatives.
00:12:38.600 It's not in their DNA.
00:12:39.340 So Pierre is going to have to find alternative channels to get his message out.
00:12:43.720 He knows that.
00:12:44.640 And he has to continue to oppose.
00:12:46.280 That's his job when it is appropriate.
00:12:49.240 There may be things they do that he agrees with.
00:12:51.020 He has said, I don't think that's a bad idea.
00:12:53.620 We should do that.
00:12:55.100 But he isn't going to agree with something just to be part of, quote, unquote, Team Canada.
00:13:00.880 But how do you navigate the relationship with the United States, you know, knowing full well the sentiment in Canada now where so many people think, well, everything is Trump's fault.
00:13:13.040 and so you know you want to be practical and looking at our relationship with the United
00:13:18.320 States is critical to our economy and the fact that we need a trade relationship with our biggest
00:13:23.920 with our neighbor and a huge market just to the south of us so that has to be maintained and yet
00:13:30.000 you've got this anti-American sentiment running through a good chunk of Canadian society right
00:13:36.660 now. And so if you try to, um, gain favor with the Americans in order to get a better deal,
00:13:44.080 you're going to look like you're sucking up the Trump, you know, how do you walk that tight rope?
00:13:50.640 So first of all, it's not Pierre's job to walk that tight rope. I think people are incorrect. 0.68
00:13:56.560 He's not the guy that has to do the discussions with the U S it's the guy, uh, sitting at, uh,
00:14:03.000 the pmo that has to do that and he's being well i don't know if you saw what happened last week but
00:14:09.220 he got the canada got trounced off of a major security organization and that's that's because
00:14:15.700 the u.s no longer trusts canada okay um there will be more to come i believe i think that was
00:14:22.460 only the first cello i have said to you before and i think you'll recall it i said way back in
00:14:27.820 november of 2024 that i did not believe that usmca is going to be renegotiated i think there's going
00:14:32.940 to be a Mexican bilateral, and Canada's going to have to figure out what it's going to do,
00:14:37.000 if there's going to be a bilateral with Canada or not. And right now, it doesn't seem Canada's
00:14:40.860 inclined to want to do that. Maybe empty shelves will help them change their minds. Maybe a lack
00:14:46.620 of products and things that they get from the U.S. every single day that they cannot possibly 1.00
00:14:51.920 replace from China or other places in any reasonable amount of time, maybe that will
00:14:56.900 change their minds. I don't know what it will take. But it's not Pierre's job to do this
00:15:03.320 negotiation. It is Pierre's job to encourage them to be reasonable about this. The U.S. has been our
00:15:09.560 longtime partner. I've always said, and this is as an American, that I thought it was foolish 0.95
00:15:15.500 for Canada to have 80% or 70% of its eggs in one basket. Not a smart idea. But now this behavior,
00:15:25.420 which is not about that. It's about hating Trump. And it's about getting a grip on power and keeping
00:15:31.980 it and fooling the people into thinking that they're doing this for them. This is the wrong
00:15:37.140 time and the wrong way to do this. The way that Harper was doing it when he was in office and
00:15:41.500 didn't have, unfortunately, enough time to finish it, he did get the trade balance a little bit
00:15:48.820 better. It was down from 70% to around 60%. It takes time to negotiate these deals and to work
00:15:55.680 it out. So it's incremental. You can't just flip it over overnight. And I think that Carney knows
00:16:05.040 that and I don't think he cares. He has a totally other agenda in mind. And I don't like to say it
00:16:14.680 lot people will say oh that's just her being a partisan conservative or she's crazy but i don't
00:16:20.360 think he has canada in mind at all yeah i mean i think he figured the mexicans would do an end run
00:16:26.920 around you know the canada and mexico could do an end run around the united states somehow
00:16:33.960 gory said no they said they're not making a deal with canada so if he's thinking that he didn't
00:16:39.880 hear what claudia scheinbaum said yeah literally said we're not doing that she wants to deal with 0.97
00:16:45.800 the us she knows where her bread is buttered yeah because she's not stupid and so they're 0.93
00:16:50.360 going to cut a deal with the americans because of course they need access to that 340 million 0.98
00:16:57.240 person um market and canada's going to be left left out looking you know on the outside looking
00:17:03.640 in and figuring out what they're going to do next georgian thank you so much for coming on the show
00:17:07.880 we really appreciate it my pleasure good to talk to you mark george ann burke well if you enjoyed
00:17:13.640 the show well there's a lot more where that came from and you can help support us by supporting
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00:17:29.480 We'll see you next time.