00:03:42.680We'll talk about that with Tim Sargent later on in the show.
00:03:45.740Also going to be talking about kids in the classrooms
00:03:48.560and why some activists are saying they are not going far enough,
00:03:53.700the Ontario government, in getting rid of cell phones in the classroom.
00:03:58.740But I want to begin first and foremost by just talking,
00:04:02.380well, actually, before we get into the topic I want to talk about now,
00:04:05.940just as a programming note, you may recall over my right shoulder there,
00:04:09.920We have a book coming out, Pierre Polyev, A Political Life, the first ever biography of Pierre Polyev, of which I'm aware, coming out on May 28th.
00:04:19.840Now, I've heard that at some bookstores, they have jumped the gun, and it's actually already on shelves now.
00:04:26.380I saw on the weekend, people were sending me pictures of seeing this thing on store shelves, but technically it's not out yet.
00:04:32.080But I do want to let you know, because I know we have listeners and viewers to the show from across the country, that I'm going to be doing a book tour.
00:06:26.140that people who like Pierre will take away,
00:06:28.880people who don't like Pierre, people who are unsure.
00:06:31.040That's the spirit in which it was written.
00:06:33.320So anyway, if you've already picked up a copy, thank you. And if you haven't, you can probably get it now. If not in a couple of weeks time, you'll be able to. But let me talk about this RCMP revelation that came out and True North reported on this yesterday.
00:06:47.900Cosman Georgia, who hosts the Daily Brief most days, the RCMP's long-awaited review of its handling
00:06:56.580and its experience, basically, throughout the Freedom Convoy has finally come out. And there
00:07:01.440were some interesting takeaways in this. Now, the RCMP police did a canvas of a lot of their
00:07:09.220officers' responses to this. And frontline officers were incredibly frustrated with how
00:07:16.480the RCMP brass behave. Frontline officers were concerned that their role was being heavily
00:07:22.440politicized. They were concerned, one thing that I found really significant was that police intel
00:07:28.900reports, so what police were unearthing, were being misrepresented by the government. So the
00:07:34.360government would come out and say, oh yes, police are saying this, this, this, and the RCMP officers
00:07:38.720are saying, well hang on, that never, that's not what we said, that's not what we told them about.
00:07:42.260and also that the government wanted these hourly briefings but because they wanted them every hour
00:07:48.520police were so focused on preparing the briefings they weren't actually able to collect the
00:07:52.800information that they needed to be in the briefing so you had this situation where
00:07:57.080the government was getting half-formed thoughts and half-formed reports because the they were
00:08:02.980just forcing the police to spend all their time doing the reports and briefings and not actually
00:08:07.000policing and we go back to what we learned during the public order emergency commission
00:08:11.620which was that the federal government wanted the emergencies act when no police were asking for it
00:08:18.040this was not at all the case where police were saying absolutely we're our hands are tied we
00:08:23.220need more powers if anything police were saying hey we're we've already got this just let us do
00:08:27.760our job and the ottawa police service the opp rcmp they were all really clamoring around trying to
00:08:34.820get their piece of the pie here ottawa police was being territorial the rcmp we learned the
00:08:39.620commissioner was fairly deferential to Justin Trudeau, Brenda Luckey, the OPP seemed to be
00:08:46.400the ones that were really in control of a lot of the crucial aspects, but were being really edged
00:08:51.860out. They were being frozen out about this. And it was interesting, just to give you a reminder
00:08:56.480from the Public Order Emergency Commission, that the federal government was really actively trying
00:09:01.920to screw the ottawa police take a look there minister blair discusses throwing ottawa under
00:09:10.660the bus that was your note uh that was my note correct all right and i take it when he's saying
00:09:19.560ottawa he's talking about the ottawa police service is that fair it's not the city of ottawa
00:09:23.420Correct. Right. So his plan on that date is he's intending to throw Ottawa under the bus, being the OPS for any failures that have been dealt with with respect to policing. Is that fair?
00:09:39.880He could have made a comment during the meeting saying that he was not satisfied with the work that's being done by Ottawa Police Service.
00:09:45.440that was uh brendan miller there the lawyer representing the freedom convoy organizers
00:09:53.000cross-examining rcmp brass on the stand and then you also have this the acknowledgement from brenda
00:10:00.520lucky of what's been established time and time again we're just doing a little refresher course
00:10:04.760here because this was a little while ago now that the convoy was not a threat to the security of
00:10:10.700Canada and thus could not be a national emergency. Commissioner Lucky, you were present for both
00:10:18.080the February 13th IRG as well as the February 14th cabinet meeting.
00:10:26.600Yes, I think there was the cabinet meeting was on the 13th. And well, yeah, and so the IRG meeting,
00:10:36.540they according to the text messages and the messages that we've reviewed they never even
00:10:41.500asked you to speak um not on the definitely not at the cabinet meeting and i don't i what i did do
00:10:51.340i don't think i spoke at either um i i thought i did because i had speaking notes but i did brief
00:10:57.100the minister before that meeting right and the minister never asked you what your opinion was
00:11:01.500with respect to whether or not there was a section 2 CSIS Act security threat is that correct
00:11:07.340in respect to whether or not there was a threat under section 2 as defined in the CSIS Act if
00:11:12.780there was a threat to the security of Canada no he would have to ask CSIS right and CSIS you're
00:11:17.900aware told him that there wasn't that's what I've been told so you're gonna have to thank you those
00:11:23.180are my questions so that's just again to bring us up to speed here and where we are now and you look
00:11:30.860Look at this report that came out, and it's 92 pages.
00:11:33.220So if you're looking for some, I don't know if enjoyable is the right word,
00:11:36.120but you're looking for some interesting, I mean, even interesting is a bit.
00:11:39.680I'll try to give you the highlights here.
00:11:41.180But if you're looking for some reading anyway, you can look it up yourself.
00:11:43.900It's linked to in True North's story on this yesterday.
00:11:46.880But I want to read one of the paragraphs here.
00:11:49.000The Government of Canada's demands for hourly briefings left no time for intelligence units
00:11:55.760to prepare an assessment, nor to collect the most up-to-date information.
00:12:00.620Former Commissioner Brenda Luckey provided joint ministerial briefings to several ministers
00:12:04.420before the Freedom Convoy arrived in Ottawa, and then daily from January 30th to February 23rd.
00:12:10.340Updates were also shared, and it goes on and on and on and on and on.
00:12:13.660And they're basically saying that the RCMP needs to have a better way of sharing information
00:12:19.660because this was just not working because of the government's demands.
00:12:24.180But then you also have this line here.
00:12:26.780some Government of Canada partners would misrepresent information or misattribute third
00:12:33.640party information as police information. Interviewees, so that's those they canvassed
00:12:39.020for preparing this report, often noted that various Government of Canada partners would
00:12:43.540reach in directly to specific intelligence teams or individuals which did not respect the chain
00:12:48.600of command or established protocols. So you had the government going to people they wanted to go
00:12:53.500to, not keeping in mind, not respecting the chain of command. And it's understandable when you learn
00:12:59.080that the chain of command was finding what we heard time and time again through the Public
00:13:03.260Order Emergency Commission, that this was not an insurmountable problem that needed the Emergencies
00:13:11.720Act. So you may say, what's the point of this? I mean, the RCMP, like a lot of government
00:13:16.900bureaucratic agencies, does not move quickly. So the fact that it's taken more than two years for
00:13:21.880this report to come out is not hugely surprising on my part but nevertheless we have yet another
00:13:29.200reminder of this basically this fundamental lie that the federal government told people which is
00:13:35.300that police were asking them for this police weren't asking for it the city of Ottawa wasn't
00:13:40.100asking for it CSIS wasn't asking for it it was the government itself that pushed this and you may
00:13:46.880have seen there was an access to information request recently that was someone had asked for
00:13:52.240basically the legal opinion that was used the briefing the legal briefing that was given to
00:13:57.280the federal government on the emergencies act and whether it was legally justifiable and the whole
00:14:02.340page was blacked out the whole page was as black as Justin Trudeau's face at a house party you
00:14:08.600could not see anything in it because the government will not reveal the legal opinion it got and I
00:14:16.240suspect it's because it was probably a thin or tenuous basis on which they declared the
00:14:22.680Emergencies Act necessary. And as we've talked about time and time again, as I wrote about in
00:14:26.920my first book, which was about the convoy, they saw their window was closing. They wanted to go
00:14:31.440after the bank accounts. They wanted to declare this a political win. But the government being
00:14:37.140embarrassed is not, I repeat, a national emergency. So that is what we have on this for now. But
00:14:43.800whether there will be a reckoning is anyone's guess. Wanted to turn to an issue that is near
00:14:49.120and dear to a lot of those of you watching and listening to this. And that is what your child
00:14:53.300is learning in the classroom. And more importantly, how effectively they are learning. Now I had it
00:14:58.760easy because I think like there were no hand, there were the only handheld device that I had
00:15:04.080to contend with when I was of school age was I think a Tamagotchi, which at one point was like
00:15:10.720beeping up a storm in the classroom. So the teacher just took it and put it in her desk.
00:15:15.120And I don't even think I ever saw it again, to be honest. So that Tamagotchi is probably long
00:15:19.440since died by now. Or maybe it's just, you know, living up the life in my teacher's retirement.
00:15:24.740But now kids have everything. They have like their iPhones, their iPads, their all of these
00:15:29.900different devices. I was going to name other devices. And then I realized I don't know any
00:15:32.580more devices now because iPods aren't a thing. I think they've just been replaced by the iPhone,
00:15:37.080basically. But the Ontario government has tried to do something about this. They've come up with
00:15:41.860a policy that effectively keeps devices out of the classroom up to a certain point and then says
00:15:47.080from grade seven and up, I think it is, that with teacher permission they can be used. Some people
00:15:53.120are welcoming this, but others are saying it does not go far enough. Joining me is Paige McPherson,
00:15:59.580the Associate Director of Education Policy for the Fraser Institute. Paige, always good to talk
00:16:04.940you. Thanks for coming on today. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. So let's talk first off
00:16:10.800about the why here, because I think there are some people that just take an anti-distraction
00:16:16.120and anti-tech view, and they don't want kids on their phones in class. But the data actually
00:16:20.720support this as being a fairly significant thing when it comes to educational achievement and
00:16:25.180performance, doesn't it? Yeah, absolutely. So we have really interesting and valuable PISA data.
00:16:31.240So that's the Program for International Student Assessment from the OECD that looks, probably most
00:16:37.640people know that as the sort of gold standard international test of 15 year olds that is done.
00:16:42.840So PISA has great student performance data in math, reading and science, but they also have
00:16:48.440an insights report that has data on a whole bunch of different things. And they looked at smartphones
00:16:53.480and digital distractions in classrooms in their most recent report. And what it found is that
00:16:58.600there's actually a measurable impact on math scores in particular when it comes to digital
00:17:05.640distraction in classrooms. So that's from people either being distracted by their own devices
00:17:11.320or people being distracted by the devices of people in the classroom around them and that's
00:17:16.200really informative for when it comes to crafting smartphone ban policies in classrooms because it
00:17:22.520it means that it's not just what one student has on their own desk that matters to have an actual
00:17:29.540measurable impact on their math scores. And other research has shown really their cognitive
00:17:34.760development or that they're actually cognitively impairing to have this digital distraction going
00:17:40.280on, but it actually matters what other students in the classroom have as well.
00:17:45.180Now, I don't know at what age kids are getting phones. I'm assuming there's a bit of a range here,
00:17:50.880But the policy really, I think, where it's relevant is from the 7 to 12.
00:18:04.760I feel bad for teachers here because now all of a sudden they're the bad guys and they're the ones that have to enforce this.
00:18:11.140And if you've got some 16-year-old boy or girl that doesn't want to put their phone down, even if the teacher has said no, that's really the end of it here.
00:18:19.580So the enforcement, I think, will be a huge problem here.
00:18:22.320And it's, again, another thing teachers have to deal with.
00:24:07.140So even in the lunchroom, you shouldn't be able to have your phone out.
00:24:09.840And that's really one of the reasons when you talk about socialization there is that the whole point is that you have a time in your life in which you're all in the same room.
00:24:17.460You can all get together. You can all talk and have fun and laugh.
00:24:20.320And I suspect if you walk into most lunchrooms now that everyone is just glued to their phones.
00:24:25.660Absolutely. So if you ask my personal opinion on it, I think that phones should be banned throughout the day.
00:24:31.020Most of the experts who are out there on this topic agree that the ban should be throughout the day for those socialization aspects.
00:24:37.660but also because we know that phones and some of the PISA data actually speaks to this as well.
00:24:44.780The eight and 10 kids in Canada say that they're anxious when their smartphone is not with them
00:24:49.920at all times in the day. We need to break that cycle. That's actually higher than the OECD
00:24:54.060average, which is closer to 60% of kids. We also know from that data, again, that kids are
00:24:59.000distracted by their own devices, yes, but they're also distracted by others' devices as well.
00:25:03.500So if kids are thinking about the next moment that they're going to get to their smartphone, thinking about the next moment that the person beside them is going to get to their smartphone, if, you know, kids in schools are, they're taking videos of one another, they're showing each other things on their phones.
00:25:20.340If you think, okay, my kid has pretty good self-discipline, that's one thing, but the ability for them to be distracted by other kids is really significant as well.
00:25:31.220And parents play a role in this too, right? Parents, a lot of parents want to be able to get in touch with their kids at all times during the day. And this is a situation wherein I do think provincial governments need to show leadership. I believe that parental involvement in schools, providing consent, being informed if they want to be about what their kids are learning in school, offering feedback on that.
00:25:55.800there's good research to show that that's really important for beneficial student outcomes,
00:26:00.960student achievement being stronger as well. But parents will need to get on board with a policy
00:26:07.000that they know that if there is a true emergency, they can call the office and not get in touch with
00:26:12.300their kids throughout the day. So there are there are stumbling blocks beyond just, you know, that
00:26:17.480one child and their smartphone and how much they're using it throughout the day. There's a digital
00:26:22.260distraction that is so much larger than that um in classrooms if we allow the sort of okay well you
00:26:28.340can have your smartphone now you can you you can um get it back and then you give it back and then
00:26:33.300you know this this throughout the day um there's logistics that have to be worked out when you
00:26:37.220think about things like lockable pouches some of your viewers might have gone to a concert or a
00:26:42.100comedy show where they had to put their in a lockable pouch um because the the show was being
00:26:47.460recorded for a streaming service they probably enjoyed the show a lot more because they didn't
00:26:51.620have distractions and then they got their phone back from that lockable pouch from security at
00:26:55.780the end of the concert teachers can employ that um or schools and you can do that with cell phone
00:27:01.460lockers as well it does become a little bit logistically tricky when you think about high
00:27:05.700school students moving from class to class but independent schools across north america um you
00:27:11.460know there are examples of schools that have done this with quite large student populations it's
00:27:15.140very doable. And I think the benefits of having focus from kids during classroom time so far
00:27:21.920outweigh the costs. When you and I are the same age, and I recall maybe on two or three occasions
00:27:30.440in the entirety that I went to school where something was so urgent that my mother needed
00:27:35.160to call the school and have the office page the classroom and have the teacher send me to the,
00:27:40.920Like it's not that common in most cases that you're going to need that, but there was a
00:27:45.520process available and, you know, maybe it took, you know, four minutes longer than, you
00:33:35.240Well, for me, it's a slow motion crisis, but it's a crisis nonetheless.
00:33:41.280You have a society that's basically not reproducing itself.
00:33:46.120You know, that's not a society that's probably going to exist over the very long term.
00:33:50.200And it's a little bit like like boiling the frog.
00:33:52.540We've had the low replacement fertility rates for quite some time.
00:33:55.840But we've seen just in the last 10 years, our fertility rates gone from 1.6, which wasn't great, but it was a similar level to countries like the UK, the US.
00:34:05.460And now it's down to 1.3 and it's dropped quite rapidly.
00:34:08.320and this is something that started before covid so it's related to something i think quite deep
00:34:13.200seated in in our society one of the things that i i find interesting is that we used to people that
00:34:20.000talk about this issue and look at this issue look at japan as being the worst of the worst
00:34:25.040japan has always been the standout example of a country with a true fertility crisis and they're
00:34:31.120at 1.3 so we're at really what we've always looked at as being the worst in this around the world
00:34:36.720that's right so we always used to look at country like germany for instance and and say that well
00:34:42.840they had a lower fertility rate than us but now germany is higher than us we're at 1.33 they're
00:34:47.400they're at 1.45 so we really are dropping down the league tables here and we're down to levels
00:34:53.560close to italy or italy or japan you know we're not as bad as a as a career for instance which
00:34:59.020is now down at 0.72 um but we're still at you know quite low levels now i mean what what 1.3
00:35:05.880means is that for every 10 Canadians, there will be only four grandchildren.
00:35:13.960Now, the one thing, there are two aspects of this. There's the domestic picture, and then
00:35:18.360there's the global picture. And the one thing that we fail to take into consideration, even if you
00:35:23.080say, okay, well, Canada can perhaps grow its population by immigration. Well, that still
00:35:28.660isn't changing the global crisis that we see unfolding, because this is happening around the
00:35:33.120world. Countries like Hungary that have really, as a matter of government policy, tried to right
00:35:38.160this trend are in short supply. What do you think that is? Is it that countries are just
00:35:45.500uninterested in talking about this issue because there is a, because they just are scared of it,
00:35:51.520they're afraid of the politicization of it? Or is it that no one has found a solution?
00:35:57.840I mean, I think it's both. I mean, some countries, I mean, Hungary is one, but of course,
00:36:03.120Even in Canada, if you look at Quebec, for instance, in the late 1980s and early 1990s, they were introducing policy to encourage people to have more children.
00:36:13.320I mean, partly, I think nobody wants to be seen to be telling women how many children that they should have.
00:36:19.200You know, nobody wants a sort of a handmaid's tale kind of society.
00:36:24.080But the reality is, if you actually ask women how many children they want, they will generally say more than two.
00:36:29.880on average it's a little bit more than two that's true not just in canada but across across the
00:36:33.880western world um so then the question is why aren't women having having more children even though they
00:36:39.800say that that's what they want um you know urbanization um i think is a key factor here
00:36:46.920obviously people you know have more money um they're likely to find leisure pursuits and things
00:36:52.920you know ways to spend that money um uh rather than uh starting a family um if you look at
00:36:59.240countries around the world i mean nobody's nobody's had huge success um even in a country like
00:37:04.680hungary where now you know if you if you're a woman and you have four children you don't pay
00:37:09.000any income tax um which sounds i think pretty attractive to to a lot of us um they've managed
00:37:15.240to move their birth rate up but they're still significantly below fertility um countries like
00:37:20.920poland have tried this as well uh these try to increase fertility so we're seeing you know perhaps
00:37:26.840you know doing a little bit better um quebec when it had its baby bonus did see its fertility rate
00:37:33.480tick up from around about 1.4 to around about 1.6 1.7 um so countries do seem to have some success
00:37:40.520on the margin but the only advanced country now that has an above replacement rate fertility is
00:37:45.800is israel and of course there's some very special circumstances around israel there's a wicked
00:37:51.960problem aspect here in that you have a number of different you know influencing factors here and
00:37:57.960you could tackle one and not the other i mean one that you touch on in your study is the delay in
00:38:03.640many young canadians in leaving home so if you have one-fifth of adults 25 to 34 living with their
00:38:09.480their parents these are the data you've showed then that that raises a number of practical
00:38:15.560challenges to uh your dating life for example it raises challenges then in partnering up with
00:38:21.880someone where you so that that's one example and we can look at then okay why are canadians living
00:38:26.600at their living at home is it economic okay well we have an economic issue a housing issue
00:38:31.480you could solve that and you maybe have only accounted for let's say 10 of the problem
00:38:38.360when you have all of these other factors exactly um so you have to kind of look at people's
00:38:44.840life cycles here i mean you know in order to have a children you know first you know most people will
00:38:50.520want to be in a couple before they do that um in order to be a couple most people you know need to
00:38:55.160kind of leave home and set up a new family unit so you know certainly there are explanations like
00:39:01.400housing for instance i mean if you want to leave home you need somewhere to live and to start a
00:39:05.160family you probably want a bigger house so those are explanations that that do touch at um this
00:39:10.600whole sequence of events that needs to happen. But there's probably some deeper social cultural
00:39:16.080things going on as well. And as you say, Andrew, you know, you can't just look at one aspect of
00:39:21.080this problem. There seems to be something that the traditional model of, you know, you grow up,
00:39:26.380you leave home, start, you know, find a life partner and then have children. That traditional
00:39:32.620model just doesn't seem to be as popular amongst Canadians or frankly across the Western world as
00:39:38.480it used to be. It's still what most people are doing, but few and few people are doing it.
00:39:43.540I've heard mixed weight given to economic factors for people not having children,
00:39:49.800because I think we often hear, oh, it's too expensive to have kids, it's too difficult.
00:39:53.460But I've also heard some studies that have showed that's really not the reason people aren't,
00:39:58.220that very few people are refraining from having children because of the cost. And I was wondering
00:40:01.920if you could weigh in on that. Sure. I mean, the reality is our grandparents
00:40:07.780parents, you know, had way less in terms of resources than we have, and yet tended to have
00:40:12.660more children. You know, my grandmother lived in a small village in the north of Yorkshire,
00:40:17.780and her husband was farm laborer, and they had four children. So, you know, some of these economic
00:40:23.100arguments don't really work. Generally, what we see is the more money people have, the fewer kids
00:40:28.600that they're having. And so, you know, I think to say, well, you know, we can't afford children,
00:40:33.800well okay but you know why wasn't that true 20 30 years ago because certainly although incomes have
00:40:40.880been you know haven't really been uh advancing that much in Canada the last the last couple of
00:40:46.200years if you look over the last couple of decades um people now are a lot better off than they were
00:40:51.10020 30 years ago in your proposals of just possible policies that we could include one that I found
00:40:58.060interesting because it's not often, I don't often see it in this context, was looking at ways to
00:41:03.700reduce the formal educational requirements for jobs. So to actually basically get people into
00:41:09.160the labor market earlier. And I was wondering if you could expound on that a bit. Sure, because I
00:41:13.760think one thing that's happening is people are spending longer and longer in formal education.
00:41:18.120And particularly for women, that's a problem because fertility for women starts to fall after
00:41:24.200the age of 30 and falls quite significantly after the age of 35. So the more time you're spending
00:41:31.100in formal education and people usually, for obvious reasons, want to put off starting a
00:41:35.980family until they've completed their formal education. Often you want to get kind of that
00:41:40.160first job, get your first step on the career ladder before having a family. So all of that
00:41:44.640is narrowing the window that people have to start a family and have children. And so I think we do
00:41:51.440need to ask ourselves as a society do we necessarily need the you know the credentials do we need
00:41:57.220people to be spending quite as long in informal education as they as they currently do um you
00:42:02.980know canadians that were a very very educated society and and that's a good thing but we now
00:42:08.220have so many people going to university there certainly a number of researchers have raised
00:42:12.660the idea that we may just be getting into a bit of a rat race um you know think of medical school
00:42:18.200for instance a huge number of people applying to medical school and so you can be choosy about who
00:42:24.520you take you know in times gone by it may have been just enough to have had a medical degree
00:42:29.240but now people want you to do another degree first and then maybe a master's degree and then maybe
00:42:35.800some other training as well before you even get into medical school which is to say nothing about
00:42:40.840the amount of time that you have to spend there so it's what economists call credentialism so
00:42:46.360The idea is that university often just simply acts as a way to filter people according to
00:42:53.320ability, and spending five years there as opposed to three years isn't necessarily
00:42:59.240improving your human capital. Employees are just using university as a sorting mechanism,
00:43:06.520which is all very well, but it means that more and more of people's reproductive years are being
00:43:11.320spent you know going and getting these credentials well and there's also been a decline of careers
00:43:18.360i mean we've all heard sort of the rise of the gig economy and i think the economy in some ways has
00:43:23.160been a positive it gives people opportunities and flexibility and whatnot but a lot of that is not
00:43:28.520coming about because someone has chosen to engage in gig work it's because it's been available to
00:43:33.000them and that idea i mean not that we're ever going to go back to the eight days where you know
00:43:37.000you started a company and you're there for 40 years and you retire and it's
00:43:41.060great. Like, I think that era is pretty much over,
00:43:44.080but the inability for a lot of people or the apparent inability to find a
00:43:50.440career that gives them that stability is I think not helping.
00:43:54.820Oh, absolutely. I mean, when, you know,
00:43:57.380having a family is even getting married and settling down and buying a house,
00:44:04.060And so you need to have a pretty positive view of the future. You need to have an idea that there's a, you know, there's a bit of a ladder there. You know, hopefully that you'll, you know, you'll have a fairly safe and stable stream of income.
00:44:18.260And when you ask people about the future, Canadians are much more, especially young Canadians, are much more worried about the future than they used to be, much more concerned about their ability to have a house, to have a decent income.
00:44:34.600And so, as you say, Andrew, yes, people may be making enough now, but will that stream continue in the future?
00:44:41.160People just aren't as sure of that as they might have been 20, 30, 40 years ago when the labor market looked quite different.
00:44:46.820well it's a fascinating piece in the hub and if that uh is not enough for you you should go and
00:44:53.440read the actual report in the mcdonald laurier institute uh which is 56 pages but very readable
00:44:59.300and i think very significant uh dr tim sargent well done and thank you so much for coming on
00:45:04.300thanks for having me andrew all right well that does it for us for today let me know your thoughts
00:45:09.960and just before we go i got i'm in shameless promo mode today so uh let's throw that event
00:45:14.600page up. I, my book tour starts in just a couple of weeks, uh, courtesy of the Modern Miracle
00:45:20.400Network in Canada, Strong and Free Network, starting in Calgary, uh, and then Toronto and
00:45:25.260then Ottawa and perhaps some other cities. I, we, I think I have an event in London. I have an event
00:45:29.880coming up in Norwich, but that one hasn't been announced yet, but I mean, and now I guess I've
00:45:33.460just announced it, but, uh, I can't remember the date offhand, but, uh, if you want details about
00:45:37.660those, the website is modernmiraclenetwork.org slash Lawton. Hope to see you out there and get
00:45:44.060a copy of this bad boy behind me there that's it for today we will talk to you all tomorrow thank
00:45:48.880you god bless and good day to you all thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show support the
00:45:54.660program by donating to true north at www.tnc.news