Online hate speech is a problem that needs to be addressed, and the Liberals have a plan to do just that. Andrew Lawton takes a look at what the government is doing to combat online hate, and why it's a bad idea.
00:04:40.540My late dear friend Kathy Shadle had to bear the brunt of this when she ran her very popular and acerbic and witty blog, Five Feet of Fury.
00:04:50.480We also saw this provision attempt to go after people like Ezra Levant and Mark Stein,
00:04:55.600although in the end it was the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal that took up the prosecution of Mark Stein in Maclean's magazine,
00:05:01.660and it was the Alberta Human Rights Tribunal that went after Ezra Levant and the Western Standard.
00:05:06.860But all of them were attempting to enforce the very same idea,
00:05:10.180which is that online hate is a problem in need of a government solution.
00:05:15.340Now, the Liberals made this announcement, and the timing is very important here,
00:05:19.100at a massive conference dealing with anti-Semitism in Ottawa.
00:05:23.120Now, this is a conference hosted by the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs, CEJA.
00:05:27.380It was scheduled long before we knew what was going to happen about 10 days ago in Israel.
00:05:35.040It was a conference that was going to exist because anti-Semitism exists.
00:05:38.900It's the most pervasive form of hate and is continuously.
00:05:41.820But we saw in the last week and a half exactly why that is the case.
00:24:16.880the consequences of her spending isn't just the speeding tickets.
00:24:19.640It's a bigger deficit, higher inflation that led to higher interest rates,
00:24:23.240putting Canada most at risk in the G7 for a mortgage default crisis.
00:24:27.220After eight years, they're definitely not worth the cost.
00:24:29.820Is the Finance Minister going to blow through her budget deficit projections again by more than $6 billion, yes or no?
00:24:42.660The Honourable Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance.
00:24:46.000Mr. Speaker, our government will provide an update on our fiscal position on expenses
00:24:57.900and on revenues in the fall economic update in due course this fall.
00:25:04.180But I do want to be very, very clear on Canada's fiscal position.
00:25:09.200I was at the IMF World Bank Finance Minister's meeting just last week.
00:25:15.180that is where it was so clear that canada has the best the lowest deficit the lowest debt to gdp
00:25:23.280ratio in the g7 our position is enviable mr speaker well what do you think franco are we in
00:25:30.980an enviable position financially i think anyone who has been to a grocery store a gas station
00:25:38.440or just left their house in the last what couple weeks knows that we are not i mean come on the
00:25:45.100parliamentary budget officer again just produced another report okay it's fiscal update seeing
00:25:50.300where the government's finances are and as bad as the budget was from freeland everything's even
00:25:55.320worse uh it's been six months since freeland tabled her last budget and her deficit is already
00:26:01.84016 percent higher interest charges those are up folks we're paying almost four billion dollars
00:26:07.920every single month just to cover the interest charges on the on the government credit card
00:26:13.020Almost $4 billion a month, not going to hospitals, not going to roads, not hiring more teachers, not lowering taxes, going to the bond fund managers on Bay Street.
00:26:21.280Does that sound good to you? $4 billion a month wasted on interest charges.
00:26:25.140Oh, how about this? Their fiscal anchor, right? Debt to GDP ratio going down.
00:26:29.860Freeland broker, fiscal anchor, debt to GDP ratio going up.
00:26:33.700We're now, what, $1.2 trillion in debt by the end of this year, which is almost $30,000 for each and every Canadian.
00:26:40.500we've seen the carbon tax go up. We've seen a second carbon tax come in. We've seen alcohol
00:26:45.100taxes go up. We've seen payroll taxes go up. Now the government says it's going to hit us with a
00:26:49.520digital services tax. Folks, does this sound like good news to you? No, of course not. The only
00:26:55.960person who could think that we're in a good situation is a person on a minister's salary
00:27:00.620who has taken not one, not two, not three, but four pay raises over the last couple of years.
00:27:05.960yeah and uh very well said on all counts there and i think that you know the the envy like it's
00:27:12.480really interesting because everyone made fun of christopher freeland for that old disney plus
00:27:16.780comment she made a little while back but i think that was like that was a picnic compared to the
00:27:22.180tone deafness of saying how enviable canada's fiscal situation is franco terrizano federal
00:27:27.360director for the ctf always a pleasure sir thanks so much andrew all right actually i was in ottawa
00:27:33.120last week and ran into Franco it's always always good to see him in person and then I I had to
00:27:37.260like I had to rebuff him because I was I had such a busy day and he's like oh we should get together
00:27:40.940and then I said I'm sorry I'm back to back and then flying back home so uh next time I will uh
00:27:44.960put him on my dance card earlier I don't even when did I get a dance card I'm a nobody but
00:27:48.960anyway uh one thing I wanted to shift to before we uh move on with this Polyev clip that I want
00:27:55.780to talk about a little later on in the show is Alberta politics which I feel I've been neglecting
00:28:00.780in the last couple of weeks, but the UCP has its convention coming up, its annual general
00:28:06.840meeting. It's first since Danielle Smith became the party's leader. And one of the resolutions
00:28:12.700that's coming up is going to be very familiar because it's similar to what was debated and
00:28:17.460passed with a resounding margin at the Conservative Party of Canada's convention in Quebec City.
00:28:23.200And True North has a story up about this you could read, which came out yesterday.
00:28:26.880but basically the UCP membership will be debating on whether to take a very similar approach to
00:28:33.180gender in schools as is in as is the case in Saskatchewan in New Brunswick as the Ontario
00:28:39.940government has kind of spoken about but hasn't really done yet and that is to basically adopt
00:28:45.480a policy saying you need parental consent if you are under 16 and want to change your gender in
00:28:51.020schools. Now, this is something that Conservative members in Quebec City voted for in a huge,
00:28:58.600huge margin. It's been a hugely popular policy in New Brunswick. It's been popular nationally
00:29:04.140when it's been polled. But Alberta, despite being the Conservative heartland, has been very hesitant
00:29:10.420to weigh in on this. Danielle Smith has been non-committal. She says, well, you know, we'll
00:29:15.980look into it and whatnot. This is what she said when asked about it last week.
00:29:21.020So Premier Moe next door in Saskatchewan has said he's going to use the notwithstanding clause to essentially support provincial legislation that says similar things to this separate school board policy.
00:29:32.880I'm just curious for the Premier, what do you think about Premier Moe's decision to do that?
00:29:36.940And would you support similar legislation provincially if it was supported by the grassroots of your party?
00:29:42.540As I said, we haven't made a decision as a caucus.
00:29:45.500We're still watching to see what policies are in place in other parts of the country.
00:29:51.020I do think, though, that we have to understand that children can't be in a position where they're forced to have two identities, one at home and one at school.
00:29:59.940And so I think it's incumbent upon all of us to find an avenue where we can support a child as they're making these decisions.
00:30:06.840Because I think if we're concerned about the mental health and wellness of a child, making sure that they're not being torn in two directions has got to be the direction that we support as a government.
00:30:17.580I'll wait and see how the legal process plays out in Saskatchewan,
00:30:21.680but at the moment we haven't made any decisions to legislate here.
00:30:26.240Basically what she's saying there is we're not going into it.
00:30:29.320She was asked as well, I think around the time of the Million Person March,
00:30:32.560and gave a very similarly tepid answer on that issue.
00:30:37.680And I should just say for context here,
00:30:39.240Danielle Smith has never pretended to be a social conservative,
00:30:42.060although in the last few years when governments were shutting down churches
00:30:45.820and arresting pastors, the libertarian position was very much in alignment with the social
00:30:51.180conservative position on a lot of issues. But on this, it is an issue that I think is putting her
00:30:56.220at odds with a lot of the conservatives in her party, and I'd say around the country,
00:31:00.600and not even just conservatives, a lot of parents. I want to welcome into this discussion William
00:31:05.380Macbeth. He is the COO of True North, but before that he has been a longtime Alberta politico and
00:31:11.660actually worked on Danielle Smith's campaign when she was running as the Wild Rose leader back
00:31:17.400over a decade ago. William, it's good to talk to you about this. Just hit the stage here. I mean,
00:31:22.120Danielle Smith's relationship with social conservatives and social conservatism has
00:31:26.160been a very interesting one in political history. Yeah, no, I think you're right. And I would say
00:31:33.460there might even be a little bit of a misconception about Alberta when it comes to
00:31:38.860social conservatism. As a whole, Alberta is pretty happy to live and let live on most issues.
00:31:46.440The polling I've seen, and it is from about 10 years ago, showed strong majorities in favor of
00:31:52.400things like same-sex marriage, equality and rights for LGBTQ people. So there isn't really
00:32:01.040a lot of disagreement on that. I think where it comes up against a hard line, though,
00:32:07.700is on issues related to children, the role of teachers and the role of parents in being
00:32:15.040those who make decisions in the best interest of their kids. And I think that's where we're now
00:32:19.860seeing a lot of division and debate and where they're going to find a lot of agreement with
00:32:24.240Danielle Smith, who I think ideologically believes that the real child care experts aren't
00:32:29.680the education bureaucrats or even the teachers in schools. The real child care experts are called
00:32:35.140mom and dad. And that's who should have the decisions and being charged of those decisions
00:32:39.420for their own kids. Yeah, I think that's an important point. And I should, I wouldn't say
00:32:44.300walk back, but I should add some additional context to my approach to this issue, which is
00:32:49.100that the parental rights discussion is one that is far broader than the category we generally refer
00:32:55.120to as social conservatives. And I think we're seeing that in polling around the country. Like
00:32:59.540this is an issue that's galvanizing people that aren't just conventionally conservative, let alone
00:33:04.040SOCON. So with that in mind, why do you think the UCP government has been so hesitant on this when,
00:33:10.940I mean, even Blaine Higgs in New Brunswick, who's hardly a firebrand, has really made this
00:33:15.020his hill to die on? You're absolutely right. I mean, part of it could be a little bit of shell
00:33:21.680shock from times they've wandered into the issue, perhaps unprepared, perhaps without thinking
00:33:27.280through all of the fallout or the communications necessary around it. I mean, I can recall
00:33:32.260specifically when the issue of gay-straight alliances in schools came up and the fact that
00:33:38.260Walrose at the time under Daniel Smith didn't fully support those, that caused a lot of
00:33:44.020consternation, was widely seen as one of the reasons why Walrose wasn't able to get over the
00:33:48.500top and win an election. What we're really talking about is, you know, putting a party or a government
00:33:55.480really offside with enough voters that it hurts their ability to win an election. I think there's
00:33:59.840a perception that in big cities like Calgary, there could be problems if you took too hard a
00:34:06.240line. That being said, I think we're being pushed towards having to make a choice. I think we're
00:34:11.500reaching a point rapidly where there are those who believe that parents are generally a negative
00:34:19.100influence on their own children's lives, that parents are not to be trusted, that teachers
00:34:23.480know far better than parents how to raise kids.
00:34:27.800And the people who believe that believe it full-throatedly.
00:34:31.060But I think it's not what Alberta parents believe.
00:34:33.360It's not what the vast majority of Albertans believe.
00:34:35.360It's not what the vast majority of people who live in Calgary or in Edmonton believe.
00:34:39.260And I think you will see movement on the part of Danielle and her government on this
00:34:45.240She will have to say where the government stands.
00:34:48.140So as I mentioned, in a couple of weeks, the UCP members will have the right to weigh in on this.
00:34:53.140along with other issues. We saw the numbers federally with the Conservative Party of Canada.
00:34:58.140And, well, I think there needs to be that caveat that party policy is not binding on a leader or
00:35:03.720a government. It does provide a pretty useful barometer of where the grassroots stands. And I
00:35:08.920think it also kind of throws the ball into Danielle Smith's court. If there is some resounding
00:35:14.020majority for this and they're looking to the government, which has a majority right now,
00:35:17.780How responsive do you think the party will be to its members on this or in general?
00:35:25.020Yeah, I mean, I think the last couple of years in Alberta politics, which have not been dull, are instructive when it comes to this issue.
00:35:33.420Because, you know, if you look at Premier Kenney, Premier Kenney wasn't thrown out by the voters of Alberta.
00:35:41.240He was thrown out by his own party members.
00:35:43.360And Danielle remembers well that when party leaders lose the support of their own party or their own caucus, it's almost untenable for them to stay on.
00:35:53.240I mean, I'm old enough to remember back when Alberta was governed or misgoverned by Premier Alison Redford, who never lost an election, but she did lose the support of her own caucus and her own party.
00:36:04.820So she'll be very cautious about adopting policy positions that run contrary to where her own party members were, her own caucus stand on this.
00:36:13.520And I would say she's often stated publicly that her position on issues is informed by where her party's membership is.
00:36:21.500She is a Democrat. She believes that if her party and they're going to have something like 3000 members attending their their next AGM.
00:36:29.600If her party stakes out a bold claim or a solid claim on one of these issues, I don't think she'll feel she has any form of mandate to really ignore what the party is telling her.
00:36:51.680And, you know, there is a part of me that wonders if that's part of a play here, though, which is to say that, well, if I hold back now and wait for caucus or the membership to decide, now I've got a bit of cover to go in on this.
00:37:04.540Where I don't look like an ideologue, I'm saying, well, the members have spoken and that's the basis for it.
00:37:09.320Again, I don't know if that's the chess game at play here, but if she is that Democrat, as you've articulated, that may be the plan rather than just deciding out of the blue or seemingly out of the blue we should do this because Saskatchewan did.
00:37:21.680Absolutely. And I think you're right. Particularly on this issue, I think she would prefer to approach it from a position of she has some sort of mandate, she has some sort of guidance from her members, her caucus, her party.
00:37:36.100Overwhelmingly, though, I can say that the public research, the polling I've seen from Albertans makes it clear that they think that parents should be making decisions about their own children, not so-called education professionals, teachers, education bureaucrats or school boards.
00:37:53.960And you only have to look at how crazy some of these school board people are for why Albertans are coming to that conclusion.
00:38:02.080The school boards elected across the province, particularly in the two major cities, are woke factories churning out outrage and insanity at an unprecedented level.
00:38:14.800I mean, Alberta always likes to think we've cornered the market on conservatism.
00:38:20.160But if you look at our two local governments in Edmonton and Calgary, those are a hotbed of crazy right there.
00:38:26.000We've got Amarjit Sohi in Edmonton, Jody Gondek in Calgary, school boards and city councils that are incredibly left wing, right at home in Toronto and Vancouver.
00:38:36.080So for her not to take a position on this, I think is going to be problematic when so many parents have already decided.
00:38:43.640And if I can just say, I think ideologically, the idea that parents are overwhelmingly bad for their own kids doesn't fly with, I mean, not just Albertans.
00:38:54.760I think that doesn't fly anywhere in our country. The vast majority, the crushingly overwhelming
00:39:00.460majority of parents love their own children and wants what's best for them. So for the left to
00:39:05.920suggest otherwise, I think puts them offside with a massive amount of voters. Yeah, very well said.
00:39:11.400William Macbeth is the COO of True North. And for the last 15 minutes, our staff have been running
00:39:15.820up expenses because you weren't here to approve them and deny them. So I'll let you get back and
00:39:19.940rein in that. William, always a pleasure. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me.
00:39:23.700all right one thing i wanted to get i wasn't going to bring this up i saw this on the weekend
00:39:28.940pierre polyev on the break week in the house of commons was out in bc and he was uh campaigning
00:39:34.460in an apple orchard which is like a very retail politics thing to do and there were a bunch of
00:39:38.720photos of him uh chatting with people and videos of him meeting with people and there was this one
00:39:44.100video that i saw that he posted and the caption i think was how do you like them apples so take
00:39:49.980from that what you will but it was this long exchange that i thought at first was with a
00:39:56.380constituent or with a voter and and it was really kind of uncomfortable because the voter was like
00:40:01.380talking about things and you could tell they didn't really understand them and polyev was being
00:40:05.460very polyev like in pushing back and saying well who says that and who says that uh this is a snip
00:40:11.340it was a long video but this is a i think a two minute snippet of it um on the on the topic i mean
00:40:18.500In terms of your sort of strategy currently, you're obviously taking the populist pathway.
00:42:34.600Anyway, the first time I saw that clip, I was thinking it was like just really awkward.
00:42:39.920This voter that was just outmatched, like not making eye contact, not prepared.
00:42:44.440And then I learned he is not just some random voter from Kelowna,
00:42:48.720but he's actually a reporter and editor with Castanet,
00:42:53.020which is an outlet in British Columbia.
00:42:55.960And it's a smaller local outfit, but established anyway, by the name of Don Urquhart.
00:43:01.320So his, that was an interview, like, and, and, you know, when it's, he's asking about Trump and populism and this, and Polyev's the one that publishes the video, like, you know, they're proud of how they come across in that.
00:43:15.260And I still like I still kind of cringy because it's like this guy brought a dull apple to a gunfight.
00:43:23.240That's basically the metaphor if I decide to mix them up for you here.
00:43:27.600But he's like, well, populism, Trump, left wing, right wing, populism, Trump.
00:43:32.960And then when he gets called on it, it's, well, let's just move on from that.
00:43:35.840So why are you running? Oh, my goodness.
00:43:38.820So this is it's funny. I've had some debates with reporters about this.
00:43:42.560one mainstream media reporter in the parliamentary press gallery who told me that this keeps every
00:43:48.900reporter on their toes. They don't want to show up unprepared. And I've had others that think this
00:43:53.560guy is, you know, undermining the fifth estate or the fourth estate or the ninth estate or Babylon
00:43:58.740five or whatever it is. But basically, I think what's happening here is Polyev is flipping the
00:44:05.040script. And if you're going to go in there with people say, you better be able to cite one single
00:44:09.760person who may have said something to that effect. There's my lesson to any reporter that is going to
00:44:14.820interview Pierre Polly. Yeah. But what was interesting is that clip I saw recirculating
00:44:20.120today because American conservative media had picked it up. Town Hall was going after it. I saw
00:44:25.600Ron DeSantis as press secretary sharing it. I saw a bunch of American conservatives that were DMing
00:44:30.700me being like, do you know this, you know, Pierre guy, this, you know, French guy, whatever. I said,
00:44:35.320well, boy, do I have a story for you about Canadian politics. And then they unfollowed me.
00:44:39.280But anyway, that is basically what happened here.
00:44:42.020So it's starting to get noticed, perhaps by people that like how Trump and DeSantis have tried to flip the script as well.
00:44:48.040But nevertheless, that does it for us for today.
00:44:50.880We'll be back with more of The Andrew Lawton Show in 23 hours and 15 minutes here on True North.
00:44:55.980Thank you, God bless, and good day to you all.
00:44:59.300Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:45:01.840Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.