Juno News - Liberals REJECT pipeline motion as caucus rift grows

00:00:00.000 Well, the Kearney Liberals are pushing back against suggestions their caucus is split on

00:00:09.400 whether to support an Alberta pipeline or not. Last month, Prime Minister Kearney signed an

00:00:14.640 energy accord with Alberta approving construction of an oil pipeline to the B.C. coast. Despite

00:00:20.880 that, the government intends to vote against a motion today, calling for the federal government

00:00:26.200 to honor the terms of that agreement. Here's Energy Minister Tim Hodgson.

00:00:31.540 Canadians see the motion that's before us today for what it is. It's a cynical ploy to divide us.

00:00:38.500 It's a cheap political stunt. And so we will not be supporting the motion the Conservatives have

00:00:44.740 put forward today. And yet the question remains, is the Liberal Caucus united behind the energy

00:00:49.980 accord signed by the Prime Minister or not? You're saying that the Conservatives are trying to divide

00:00:54.840 you on this issue. Is it not your government that has divided your own caucus by bringing

00:00:59.560 forward an MOU that clearly does not have the full support of your own party?

00:01:02.620 As a party, we are united in wanting to make sure that we continue to build Canada, that

00:01:09.700 we build it well, that we take into account climate change in the work that we do, and

00:01:14.800 that we respect Indigenous rights holders. Our party is united on that. And so I won't accept 1.00

00:01:22.160 that as a premise for that question. I, we are united.

00:01:24.880 You don't think the MOU is dividing your own caucus? You don't think there's divisions

00:01:27.680 over that?

00:01:28.000 No.

00:01:28.320 People can have issues with particular pieces, but we are supportive of the entire MOU.

00:01:38.080 You are supportive, but there are many of your other caucus members who are not supportive.

00:01:41.200 The caucus is supportive of the entire MOU. People, yes.

00:01:49.920 Mr. Hogan, was this a whip vote? Would you have wanted to vote in favor of the pipeline?

00:01:53.600 Was this a whip vote for your caucus?

00:01:55.600 This was not a whipped vote for me. This is a very easy decision to vote no on. It is designed to divide.

00:02:02.640 Well, they keep insisting that caucus is unified behind the energy accord, but former cabinet minister

00:02:09.280 Stephen Gilbeau ripped his own party in the pages of the Toronto Star today with this headline.

00:02:14.640 I quit Mark Carney's cabinet. This is what I hope happens next.

00:02:19.440 Well, that doesn't sound very unified. Here's a poll quote from his op-ed.

00:02:23.600 Canadians appear to be getting nothing in return for all that is being sacrificed.

00:02:29.440 Conservative party leader Pierre Polyev says the motion uses the same wording as the memorandum of

00:02:34.720 understanding. So why would the Liberals vote against it if they're unified behind it?

00:02:39.280 The MOU says there would be a pipeline to the Pacific. I took the wording right out of the

00:02:45.600 agreement that there would be an overriding of the tanker ban. I took the wording for that

00:02:51.200 right out of the MOU. And now the prime minister is hiding under his desk. Liberal members on one side

00:02:59.040 of the country are saying they're against while they're pretending in Alberta that they are in favor.

00:03:03.840 So why don't they stand up in the House of Commons, look Canadians in the eye, take one position,

00:03:08.640 vote for a pipe to the Pacific and override the tanker?

00:03:12.400 Well, Mr. Speaker, the prime minister and all of us and all conservative premiers

00:03:18.240 and most people in this country supports every part of that MOU, Mr. Speaker.

00:03:24.560 The leader of the opposition stands in his place and says to the people of Alberta,

00:03:30.080 you know what? That little thing that they said was progress for our province that made us a leader

00:03:36.560 in renewable technologies, made us a leader in nuclear energy, made us a leader in interties,

00:03:43.200 made us a leader in conventional electricity. That's all off. I just want this one thing.

00:03:48.800 Complicating matters even more, calls by First Nations people to reject the pipeline proposal and

00:03:55.040 any lifting of the tanker ban. Here's Jason Aslip of the Haida Nation. 0.97

00:03:59.760 So today we are calling on all the MPs to stand with the Coastal First Nations to uphold the Oil

00:04:08.000 Tanker Moratorium Act to protect our coast. That means keeping the pipeline and any oil tanker traffic

00:04:16.400 out of these waters, especially the Hecate Strait. And we have never supported the pipelines or the

00:04:21.680 tanker traffic. And they're not part of our vision for a healthy, sustainable,

00:04:28.960 economically diverse economy. Well, assuming it's ever built, the pipeline will allow for the export of

00:04:35.680 at least one million barrels a day of Alberta bitumen to markets in Asia. I'm now joined by Dan

00:04:41.600 McTague, who was a longtime member of parliament, spent 18 years on parliament hill. These days,

00:04:47.200 he is a commentator on all things government related, and he's also an energy analyst. Welcome

00:04:52.960 to the show. Good to be here, Mark. Thanks for having me. Let's take a look at this motion that

00:04:58.000 is before the house or will be before the house and be voted on. And the liberals have already served

00:05:03.360 notice that they have no intention of supporting it, despite the fact that the wording of it,

00:05:07.440 very carefully crafted, is really a reflection of the MOU that was signed by the prime minister

00:05:13.920 and Alberta premier, Daniel Smith. What do you make of this?

00:05:17.040 Well, we have to smoke Mark Carney out because he's basically said one thing and meant another.

00:05:20.880 He said he's going to get rid of carbon taxes. Now he has two, clean fuel standard and industrial

00:05:24.800 carbon tax. He said he's going to make all sorts of deals with Donald Trump, nothing to show so far.

00:05:30.160 He said he would get the finances of the country right. We're declining rather dramatically and

00:05:34.480 collapsing. And now, of course, he's as a, you know, as a sort of a sop to Western Canada, in particular

00:05:40.160 to the need to get our economic engines going and to get the lifeblood of the economy rolling again

00:05:46.240 to attract investment into Canada. He's made some kind of an understanding, not a contract with

00:05:52.400 Danielle Smith. And the liberals, of course, are badly divided in this. You've got the liberals of my

00:05:57.520 generation who are being pragmatic and say that's the way ahead. That's where the world is going.

00:06:00.960 It doesn't matter how you look at it. Oil is going to be around for a very long time and for

00:06:04.400 generations to come. Or you can be part of this coterie of people around the Liberal Party who

00:06:08.400 bought the green socialist idea that somehow we should impose net zero on Canadians only,

00:06:14.000 maybe, you know, force more to go to food banks, maybe turn off their heat, maybe rely on windmills in

00:06:20.400 the middle of minus 40 degree winter in Alberta, whatever the case may be, or electric vehicles where

00:06:25.840 you've spent billions of dollars. Many of these companies have gone away from that or gone bankrupt.

00:06:31.200 All these things suggest that there is nothing about the Liberals that you can hold to account.

00:06:36.000 And for the albozos out there that supported them, that's fine. But you're going to be proven 1.00

00:06:40.640 and your party is going to be proven to be anything, nothing short of mendacious. And that goes right

00:06:45.440 to Carnie's credentials. For a man who left Canada and took the company out of Canada before he became

00:06:50.480 Prime Minister, that's not a very telling way of saying you have Canada's back at your interest.

00:06:57.600 And so I think this MOU is bound to failure. It's not just bound to failure because the Liberals have

00:07:03.040 no intention of pursuing it. When you take $45 oil, which is Western Canadian select, and you add

00:07:08.960 $10 to $12 for $135 a ton carbon tax, an industrial carbon tax up from 90, and then you add the cost of

00:07:17.520 carbon sequestration, CCUS, carbon capture and underground storage. Someone's got to pay for

00:07:24.080 that. If not taxpayers, it's going to be paid in the cost of oil. That could push it up $14,

00:07:27.920 $15 a barrel, which already makes it uncompetitive to WTI. So this thing may be well gone before.

00:07:34.640 Politically, it's going to be proven tonight that politically, Liberals are insincere. They have

00:07:38.800 no intention of building this. And I think it's not time for Alberta and others to finally say,

00:07:43.360 enough is enough with these jokesters. Yeah, it would be great if this vote was not

00:07:47.520 whipped, but I think it will because the Liberals are not going to show just how divided they are,

00:07:52.640 but it is going to be a whipped vote. I suggest that if it was a free vote

00:07:56.000 and a vote your conscience, we would see a very different take on this party because you've got

00:08:02.880 people like Stephen Gilbo coming out saying that, again, that this is a bad deal for Canada. Canada should

00:08:09.600 not be moving forward with this, reminding everybody that he left a quick cabinet.

00:08:16.720 Basically, he's standing up kind of like a thorn on the side of the government now.

00:08:21.280 At first, I was wondering whether or not this was just a lot of smoke and mirrors,

00:08:24.720 suggesting that, trying to show people that I've really struggled here in order to get this deal

00:08:30.720 passed through a divided caucus. But I don't know what's going on in that caucus right now.

00:08:36.880 Have you heard anything? I mean, how divided is this caucus?

00:08:40.640 Well, I think it's very divided on this issue, but perhaps leaning to the old socialist

00:08:45.040 WEF green nonsense that we've heard for the past few years. Look, Mr. Gilbo was not a Federalist,

00:08:51.680 he was a separatist. Mr. Gilbo was not a Liberal, he is a Socialist, and he's admitted those things.

00:08:57.360 His actions, his antics have a lot of play in the Liberal Party when they could afford to

00:09:02.720 squander away a nation and basically say to heck with its resources, to heck with its ability to

00:09:07.760 get products to the rest of the world. But we now find ourselves in an extraordinarily significant

00:09:13.840 economic straitjacket, the likes of which I haven't seen since the early 1980s, and which is going to

00:09:19.280 boomerang sooner or later. But what is happening here is that the willingness to expose Mark Carney,

00:09:26.560 for all the things he said he's done in the past, you remember what he said in 1997, I was

00:09:30.480 responsible for balancing the budget. In 2008, I prevented us from the global, none of that was

00:09:35.440 that was total garbage, and it was shameless self-promotion. I know it because I was there. 0.93

00:09:39.680 But now we see that we're seeing a side of him and a side of his caucus that isn't quite ready to go.

00:09:46.240 I mean, they're not prepared to go down this road of having to be pragmatic and recognize that 10 years

00:09:51.760 of undermining Canada's prosperity and its economic opportunities is the very thing that's bringing

00:09:57.680 the country to its knees economically. And when you've got 2 million people visiting food banks,

00:10:03.040 you've got young people who can't find work, you have to fudge your numbers on employment by

00:10:07.360 bringing in temporary foreign workers to work as part-timers, knocking a lot of young students out

00:10:12.000 from their first crack at a job. When you see delinquencies and defaults and mortgages coming up,

00:10:16.880 when you see rentals are far too expensive, everything in the food prices, of course, going through the roof.

00:10:21.920 I don't know what's holding the Liberal Party in this unless, of course, it's the charade by its enablers,

00:10:28.320 and of course, by those who are out there influencing people to believe otherwise than what they see.

00:10:32.800 But right in front of us is the reality that Mark Carney and the Liberals say one thing,

00:10:37.920 but they do, in fact, another. And I think tonight will be a real substantial test.

00:10:42.480 The play is the thing where we will catch the conscience of the king, Hamlet.

00:10:46.880 And I think that's exactly what we're seeing here. It's time that we put the real Mark Carney to a test.

00:10:51.760 I think it's going to disappoint a lot of elbozos out there who thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. 1.00

00:10:57.040 Yeah. Well, obviously, he hasn't been living up to some of his key promises, not the least of which is

00:11:01.920 the trade deal that was supposed to have happened by July the 21st. That never happened. And so,

00:11:08.960 it's odd to see some of these polls coming out that still have Mark Carney around the same level of

00:11:15.440 support as he had around election day. And I just don't know exactly where those numbers are coming from,

00:11:21.600 but they're reputable polls, I assume. And yet, the Canadians still seem to suggest that they like

00:11:26.240 the guy. The other question, I guess, is from Alberta's vantage point. I mean, Alberta, the

00:11:32.240 premier of that province, Danielle Smith, signed the MOU. She did her best to sell it to her party.

00:11:39.600 I mean, did she get taken for a ride here? I mean, she's not a dumb lady, but some are suggesting that 0.94

00:11:47.280 maybe she took the word of a prime minister who is not being on the level with her, and in fact, 0.86

00:11:53.360 tried to make it look like he was supporting a pipeline, when in fact, it really wasn't,

00:11:58.880 knowing full well that his caucus was not behind it. What kind of dynamic is she going through now, 0.69

00:12:04.800 do you think? Well, I think it's going to expose Mark Carney for operating and making deals and

00:12:10.400 decisions in bad faith and creating a deal that would be impossible to achieve long before it

00:12:15.600 happened. I think Danielle Smith's point is, yeah, we'll work. We'll do everything we can. We'll bend

00:12:20.080 over backwards. We'll do cartwheels. But if at the end of this, you still have an intention and guile to

00:12:25.840 try to scupper this particular project or any other in the future, then we know where you stand.

00:12:30.400 So I think goodwill has been extended as Albertans often do. But if petulant Canadians in the east, 0.99

00:12:36.320 where I'm from, decide that they're going to slap this around, good luck, because you won't 0.72

00:12:40.560 be able to cash your welfare checks. You won't be able to get that free hospital. You won't be able

00:12:44.320 to get the free dental. I mean, if we're going to continue to crap on the very thing that produces 0.78

00:12:50.480 revenue for the federal provincial government, so you and I can have a world standard of living when

00:12:55.280 it comes to our social programs, good luck with that. But as long as 43% or 45% of you

00:13:00.080 out there are still dumb enough to believe this man is anything but duplicitous, then you're going 0.98

00:13:06.000 to learn in a very hard way. And believe me, in January and February, there's no way StatsCan 0.96

00:13:11.360 can come up with numbers saying, liberal will be great. All those part-time jobs that were created,

00:13:14.880 the 55,000 will be gone by January. So get ready, fasten your seatbelt. But I knocked in many doors,

00:13:21.360 hundreds of doors. I saw you. And I said, you know, I was an 18-year liberal member party. I'm not voting

00:13:26.320 for them. Why the hell are you? And it was all elbows up. Well, now you're going to pay for that 0.94

00:13:30.240 kind of stupidity being bribed for the fourth time and guiled into doing something based on 1.00

00:13:35.600 the irrational. We are seeing evidence of the country in major decline. Tonight's vote, 1.00

00:13:40.240 when the Liberals show that they are not interested in building another pipeline,

00:13:44.160 will cause real disappointment in Western Canada and will obviously cause disappointment for the

00:13:48.560 markets. And no, Canada has not a very safe place to invest any money whatsoever. And if that's the

00:13:54.320 case, then look for more austerity and more difficult times down the road. But remember

00:14:00.160 something. You supported this, folks. You voted Liberal. You used examples in 2015 of, you know,

00:14:06.240 free dope. In 2019, of climate bedwetting. Of COVID hysteria. And 2025, Orange Man and Bat. If you are so

00:14:16.240 guiled, if you are so willing to be deceived, then perhaps you deserve the kind of outcome you're going to

00:14:21.600 see here. And I'm not proud of saying it, but Canadians are going to get a real good shot in the

00:14:25.920 side of the head very soon, the likes of which they have not seen in over a generation.

00:14:30.640 Yeah. Maybe early in the new year. I mean, we're about to turn the page into 2026. I think maybe

00:14:36.880 Carney has received maybe an extended honeymoon period with Canadians still willing to give him the benefit

00:14:43.600 of the doubt, but that won't last forever. And once we're at 2026, you know, as the economy continues to

00:14:49.600 suffer despite some of the gaslighting we're saying from the likes of StatsCan and some of the numbers

00:14:54.880 coming out of some of the job numbers, to your point, where they tell us that we've created 54,000

00:15:00.320 jobs. And then you scratch underneath the surface and you find we actually lost over 9,000 full-time

00:15:06.400 jobs. And that, you know, so it was just nothing but part-time work and healthcare and socials.

00:15:12.640 They're all social government, pension governments. They're all, you need to have a

00:15:15.840 viable private sector in order to support the social side of things, the civil side. And we've

00:15:21.440 seen a massive increase in civil, 40, 50%, 10, 15% on the private side. It's not sustainable. Unless

00:15:29.760 you want to take 100% of your wage, give it back to the government, say you work at a hospital.

00:15:33.440 I'm not denigrating those people, but that's the only jobs we have in this country. We are in big

00:15:37.040 trouble. We've now got the engine of economic growth completely stalled, and we're wearing down

00:15:42.880 the battery. I mean, the Liberals are dismissing this motion as just a political stunt, an end of

00:15:48.560 year stunt. But at the end of the day, if they're using the same wording as in the MOU, what really

00:15:54.240 is the problem with voting in favor of it and supporting it? And they're not doing that. So I

00:15:59.600 think, I agree with you. I think it's going to be a real eye-opener for a lot of people in Alberta who

00:16:04.080 think that that MOU was worth, you know, what the paper is printed on. And in fact, it may not be.

00:16:11.840 It speaks to a level of duplicity here. It speaks to a prime minister that wants to look like he's

00:16:18.560 doing something when in fact he's doing the opposite. Last word to you, Dan.

00:16:23.120 Well, wait till the equalization programs and equalization divvy gets divvied up and there's

00:16:27.680 less money in the pot because we haven't been able to build our economy. And if that's the way the

00:16:32.640 Liberals want to treat this thing and run it right down to the last kilowatt of energy, that's fine. 0.85

00:16:38.560 But I take by the Liberals, if they were serious about an issue that is extremely important on a

00:16:43.280 number of fronts, economic activity, our fiscal situation, while at the same time, you know,

00:16:49.760 strengthening the Federation, if these are things they're prepared to trade away with and dismiss and

00:16:54.320 you know, try to play coy about, they're playing with fire. And unfortunately, it's a fire that's

00:16:59.280 going to burn every single Canadian, like it or not. If you're here in Eastern Canada, wait till the 1.00

00:17:04.000 equalization numbers drop from Newfoundland, Ontario, Quebec and Manitoba and other crybabies.

00:17:09.520 Watch what happens because I think that's, this is something that you, we don't seem to understand.

00:17:14.640 There is no money tree here and you cannot work, you know, you cannot be not concerned about balancing

00:17:21.040 budgets and ensuring that we have a viable way of getting capital and investments back into Canada.

00:17:26.960 It's been one way out. We need to turn around and buy this kind of stunt by the Liberals tonight to say

00:17:32.560 they're not serious about their project. It sells everything we need to do for 2026 as prices of

00:17:39.520 everything go up and the country's economic outlook becomes significantly darker.

00:17:45.200 Dan McTague, Canadians for Affordable Energy. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Dan. Appreciate it.

00:17:50.000 Good to be here, Mark. Thank you.

00:17:52.000 And that is it for this edition of Straight Up. Appreciate you tuning in, my friends. Let's do it

00:17:55.760 again soon, shall we? Bye-bye for now.

Juno News - December 09, 2025

Liberals REJECT pipeline motion as caucus rift grows

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