Juno News - Liberals want to control what you watch online

00:00:00.000 Welcome to The Fighter with Chris Sims. I am Chris Sims. I'm the Alberta Director for the

00:00:11.580 Canadian Taxpayers Federation. We're always fighting for things like lower taxes, less

00:00:17.040 waste, and more accountable government. That last part I mentioned is super important when

00:00:22.300 it comes to our discussion today. Wait, first, if you haven't done so yet, could you please

00:00:26.720 do me a big favor, like this video, subscribe to the channel, and share it with your friends.

00:00:32.180 Okay, getting back to the point here. If you can't trust what you're hearing from journalists

00:00:38.800 and your news media sources, then how are you supposed to hold the government to account?

00:00:45.400 How are you supposed to write to your MP? How are you supposed to make an informed decision

00:00:50.040 when it comes to the next election? How can you actually energize your neighborhood to get out

00:00:55.040 there and doorknock if you can't trust the information you're getting, which leads us

00:01:00.000 to the critical importance of journalism and censorship in Canada. In Canada, the government

00:01:08.460 is tightening a vice on us. The vice from back in shop class, okay, it's attached to your workbench,

00:01:15.620 and you spin it and spin it and spin it as it gets closer and closer and closer and tighter and tighter.

00:01:20.260 On one side of this vice is the fact that journalists are being paid by the government.

00:01:27.360 I know, even 10 years ago, say 15 years ago, 15 years ago, this would have been unthinkable.

00:01:34.680 If you had approached any of my old salty news editors and said, hey boss, we should go on the

00:01:40.260 government dole. We as a newspaper or a radio station or a TV station, we should be funded by

00:01:46.100 the government. He would have laughed me out of the room and said, go cover traffic, go get some work

00:01:52.200 done, go find a story. But now it's become the norm that huge chunks of the mainstream media in Canada,

00:02:01.620 outside of the CBC, huge chunks of the mainstream media are paid by the government. It's wild.

00:02:10.100 The great researchers and journalists at BlackLock's Reporter, who are not funded by the government,

00:02:16.520 they're estimating that per media company employee now, if you layer in all the funding and subsidies

00:02:23.180 and tax credits and all that stuff, it adds up to around $27,000 or $30,000 per employee.

00:02:32.480 That is astonishing. So we've got government funded media on one side of this vice. On the other side of this vice

00:02:41.780 is censorship. Okay. Government controlling what you can hear, see and share online. Now, of course, that

00:02:53.260 government censorship usually shows up in a velvet glove. It's only to make sure that you're getting

00:02:59.460 Canadian content, and you're listening only to Anne Murray, and you're only eating beaver tails with

00:03:06.280 maple syrup on it. It's all for Canadian content, folks. What about the unintended consequences, making

00:03:13.280 it so that you can't actually find that fire brandy type podcast that you really like listening to?

00:03:20.840 What happens if all of a sudden, that independent media organization that you trust is super hard to

00:03:28.040 find in your streaming services? Isn't that a form of government censorship? Isn't that then

00:03:35.020 repressing information? This last part is super critical, especially for those of us here at the

00:03:41.140 Canadian Taxpayers Federation, because one of our mandates is to hold government to account.

00:03:48.860 Well, if you have this ever tightening vice of the government paying mainstream media on one side of

00:03:56.080 things, and government censorship suppressing information, probably that's critical of

00:04:02.600 government, okay, on the other side, how are you supposed to know what the government is doing

00:04:09.440 with your money? What the government is doing with the firearms confiscation? How are you supposed to

00:04:16.520 know? That's why it is so important that everyone, it doesn't matter actually if you like, if you prefer to

00:04:24.800 listen to more left-wing organizations, hey man, if you want to listen to Canada Land, okay, fill your

00:04:30.140 boots. They do some serious documentary work. We'd prefer you, of course, to watch things like Juno News

00:04:35.940 and to follow the Taxpayers Federation, to watch Rebel, all those independent media. But you know what?

00:04:41.320 What fundamentally matters is a free press. And free press means free from government control,

00:04:51.140 influence, and funding. What's going to happen going forward when it comes to things like podcasts and

00:05:00.080 independent news media, programs that you're probably watching right now, on some form of a streaming

00:05:07.120 service? Yeah, because the CRTC is coming out with some new regulations, and they're busy assuring everyone

00:05:15.200 that there's nothing to see here, folks. Which is usually a good indication that there's a lot to see.

00:05:20.840 What's going to happen going forward when it comes to these regulations? How is it going to affect your

00:05:25.780 ability to watch the programming you want? Let's find out. Now let's hear a word from our sponsor.

00:05:32.780 Folks, I want to take a minute to thank today's sponsor, which is Macamie College. So Macamie College

00:05:37.780 has an applied politics and public affair program. It's a two-year evening online program available across

00:05:44.660 Canada. Students have the opportunity to learn to run political campaigns, organize grassroots

00:05:48.720 movements, and push policy in the right direction. Students will also have hands-on placements in

00:05:54.000 their community or with the party they believe in. So when they graduate, they have real job-ready

00:05:58.980 experience. Applicants only need a high school diploma or homeschooling equivalent to apply intake

00:06:04.100 starts in September and January. And folks, we are very excited to announce that anyone who

00:06:09.560 who applies and is successful in enrollment will get a $500 scholarship from Juno News. So apply using

00:06:17.600 our link. It's in the description. You can go to candicemalcolm.com slash Macamie. That's M-A-K-A-M-I. 0.79

00:06:23.560 And if you apply through that link and you're successful, you get a $500 Juno News scholarship. You know,

00:06:30.240 I went to the University of Alberta and studied political science. And the thing you realize when

00:06:34.200 you're doing a university degree is that it doesn't lead you to a job. And so for me, after three years

00:06:39.140 of being a political science student, I looked around and realized I had no job skills. I had

00:06:44.420 never worked in politics. Everything was theoretical. It was all in the classroom. And I had to start

00:06:48.940 working on political campaigns just to get my foot in the door. The hard thing about politics is that

00:06:53.900 you need experience to get a job, but jobs require experience. And so doing something like this, I mean,

00:06:59.460 the fact that you can do it online, the fact that you can do it on the evening is really helpful. If

00:07:02.820 you're interested in politics and you're watching the show, I presume you are, this is something

00:07:06.000 that you really might want to consider, or hey, maybe, maybe one of your adult children

00:07:09.420 might be interested in doing something like this. So again, check out this link at

00:07:15.140 candicemalcolm.com slash Macamie College. I'm delighted to be joined now by Peter Menzies. He is,

00:07:21.120 of course, the former longtime editor of the Calgary Herald and the former vice chair of the CRTC.

00:07:27.140 And when I need an update or a check-in on the state of journalism in Canada, I go and read his

00:07:34.640 substack or I read him on X. So go check out both of those streams. Make sure you subscribe to Mr.

00:07:41.380 Menzies' substack. It is a wealth of information because even if you aren't a journalist, you want

00:07:47.860 to know what is going on with Canada and who's controlling the flow of information. Thank you so

00:07:53.380 much for joining me today. No problem. Always a pleasure. You and I were chatting back and forth

00:07:58.440 a little bit on the latest regulations coming out from the CRTC, which is, for lack of a better term,

00:08:05.960 kind of a wing of the government that regulates what you can hear and see typically on television

00:08:12.560 and radio. But nowadays, I guess they change the century and stuff on us. And we've got the internet

00:08:18.180 and we've got streaming services. A lot of people were telling me, Chris, don't worry about it. This

00:08:24.980 is not going to alter what you can see here and share online. Nothing to see here. This is just going

00:08:30.340 to put more maple syrup based shows on Netflix and on streaming services. What is your take on this?

00:08:37.380 It gets pretty complicated. First of all, the CRTC is supposed to be an independent administrative

00:08:45.780 tribunal. It's supposed to be arm's length, but as someone once told me, sometimes the arms can be

00:08:51.940 pretty short. So just to kind of keep that in for context. What the CRTC has done recently is come up

00:09:00.900 with a new definition of Canadian content, which seems to have satisfied most of the stakeholders being

00:09:06.500 involved. But in my view, it's just they've just done a good job of dividing up the pie.

00:09:13.540 My thoughts on it have always been that the concentration should be on growing the pie,

00:09:18.180 not necessarily just dividing it up, and that the pie should actually taste good and be appealing to

00:09:25.140 consumers, which is what ultimately all public bodies should be serving. That's not always the case with

00:09:32.180 some of the organizations. I don't think we're going to find out more in January when the CRTC comes

00:09:40.420 out with a sort of the second part of its decision. And that's going to be that's going to be more about

00:09:45.460 funding and or this most recent decision second part of this most recent decision funding and probably

00:09:52.820 what will be known as visibility of Canadian content within streaming services. And that means for some

00:10:00.500 reason or another, people haven't been satisfied with the your ability to go to the search tool and

00:10:06.260 type in Canadian. Because lots of Canadian content is on Netflix, for instance, and others if you just type

00:10:15.220 in Canadian and do that. So the problem is when you try to elevate one thing, you suppress something else.

00:10:22.820 So the things that you maybe don't like, will become more visible, could could become more visible

00:10:31.540 eventually on your screen. And the things that you do like, could be suppressed. And it gets pretty

00:10:38.580 complicated in terms of trade matters after that. So and probably inevitably, it means the cost of your

00:10:45.940 streaming services will go up. Are you at all concerned that something could happen similar to

00:10:52.100 what happened with Facebook? So still today, as we're recording this, if I wanted to try to share what

00:10:58.820 would be considered to be a news media link on Facebook on meta platforms, I would get this little pop

00:11:05.220 up saying, you know, due to government, blah, blah, blah, we can't do this. Now, for people who don't

00:11:11.300 know the background quickly, it started with the government. And originally, if I'm not mistaken,

00:11:16.660 it was the print guys that were saying, Hey, like, you know, we want a little bit of this money,

00:11:21.540 if you post a link to our work, we want to be compensated for it, etc. Then a whole bunch of other

00:11:26.420 media got involved, including the CBC, I will point out. And the government on behalf of said media

00:11:33.300 approached these companies like Google and Meta, and said, Hey, next time you post a link, you're

00:11:38.500 going to have to pay a fee. And Facebook said, No, thanks, we're not doing it anymore. So that is why

00:11:44.340 you can't see news on Facebook. Are you concerned, Peter, that some of these big companies will look

00:11:50.900 at the size, the small size of the Canadian market, and say this is not worth dealing with Canadian

00:11:57.460 bureaucracy in the CRTC. And we're just not going to offer our services.

00:12:01.620 Peter Robinson I think it's possible. I'm not

00:12:05.460 saying it's likely with the next one, because the CRTC may be conscious of that.

00:12:11.780 This is different dealing with streaming companies. For the CRTC traditionally is dealing with cable

00:12:16.580 companies and cable carried broadcasts and broadcasters and over the air, they had no place

00:12:21.780 to go. Whatever the CRTC's rules, whatever rules the CRTC came up with, they pretty much had to follow,

00:12:28.660 they had to adapt in some fashion or just quote business, but very few would do that. Streamers

00:12:34.100 can just leave. Yeah, the market is not that big. Now, Quebec is trying to do a similar

00:12:39.940 sort of streaming act of its own, which is just wild, right? I mean, they've actually just included

00:12:45.780 user generated content, for instance, within scope of their bill, which is bill C9, I believe. No,

00:12:55.700 sorry, 109, I think, in Quebec. So that's crazy, because they're focused on original French language

00:13:04.260 content, which means not dubbed. Like we can all go and, you know, choose which language we watch Netflix

00:13:10.580 or anything in the whatever, but that's not enough. They want original French language content.

00:13:17.140 I can't see BritBox hanging around for that, right? That's not what BritBox does, right? BritBox is,

00:13:26.900 you know, quiet English, you know, comedies, dramas, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

00:13:34.980 Well, Peter, if they just occupy Normandy again, they'll be able to manage all of this.

00:13:39.060 They'll just have French, British programming. It'll be fine. Right. And so there's a big

00:13:44.340 jurisdictional issue coming up there between Quebec and Quebec creating its own CRTC and the feds.

00:13:53.060 But if you go too far in any case, some of the companies can just look at it. Canada, frankly,

00:13:58.660 I mean, as an Anglophone market, it's still less than 35 million people. It's still, if you're worried,

00:14:07.540 as in the Facebook case, the Meta case, if you're worried that succumbing to Canada's

00:14:12.900 regulation is going to cause you a global problem, because these are global companies,

00:14:17.780 and that's really why Meta did it. Because if, if they didn't, if they went along with what Canada

00:14:23.060 was doing with news links, every country in the world was going to do it, right? Everybody was

00:14:27.940 watching Canada, right? And Canada was really proud. Everybody's watching us. And now everybody's looking

00:14:32.980 and saying, like, thank God, we're not Canada. And didn't get, didn't get suckered in, didn't get

00:14:38.180 suckered into that. So yeah, I mean, it's possible. I don't think it's likely, but with what Quebec's

00:14:46.980 coming up with right now, there will be pressure on the CRTC to sort of replicate it. So we'll have to

00:14:52.180 watch. Anything's possible. There was an element of the current and most recent CRTC ruling where they

00:14:59.460 specified, and I'm using layman's terms, that it wasn't user generated content. So say, you know,

00:15:06.180 Quick Dick McDick, or some other independent person, some commentator, Jasmine Lane was posting stuff on

00:15:13.380 YouTube, or posting stuff on, say, Spotify, okay, which is an online, as far as my definition would be,

00:15:20.580 that's an online streaming service, an online streaming platform, it's foreign owned, we listen

00:15:25.220 to podcasts using Spotify up here in Canada all the time. But they specified in one of the footnotes

00:15:32.020 that you and I were chatting about, where they said it's not individuals, but it's these hosting

00:15:37.540 programs. So things like YouTube, things like Spotify. My concern is that that could be interpreted as

00:15:45.860 the actual places where you see these podcasts could now come under CRTC regulation, meaning that

00:15:53.300 those independent journalists and those voices, those content creators, as we call them, could then

00:15:58.980 now be subject to all the rules and regulations of the CRTC. Now, I could be taking it too far. I was

00:16:06.020 with Sun News Network when it was shut down in 2015. So I've been burned. So maybe I'm reading too much into

00:16:12.420 this. Are you at all concerned that this could work as a de facto way of not seeing independent voices

00:16:19.940 or hearing more independent podcasts in Canada? Eventually, yeah, I think the Bill C-11, the Online

00:16:28.340 Streaming Act, the government insisted for the longest time when Pablo Rodriguez was heritage minister and

00:16:34.900 others that it didn't affect user generated content, even though if you looked at the bill,

00:16:40.340 it was right there. So some of us kept insisting, look, it's there, right? And it was very frustrating

00:16:47.780 because they were just gaslighting everybody and saying it's not there. After it passed,

00:16:55.300 they then actually acknowledged that it was there and created an order and counselor in the regs saying,

00:17:02.500 okay, this won't apply to user generated content. So it doesn't for now. And it only applies to

00:17:09.700 streaming companies that have more than 25 million dollars revenue in Canada. But it's in the legislation

00:17:18.740 and orders in council fade over time. And they can be taken away or people can just move on. Pressure can

00:17:26.420 build. Pressure can say, you know, this, this podcaster, that podcaster, they're out of control,

00:17:33.700 somebody has to do something about it. You know, I can remember Heady Fry saying years ago,

00:17:37.780 somebody's got to do something about the internet, people can say anything on there. Right?

00:17:41.780 I remember that. As if there was something wrong with people saying anything, right? I mean,

00:17:46.500 obviously, the laws still apply, and you can get sued and that sort of stuff. So it's not like it's

00:17:52.660 entirely Wild West or anything like that. But I think pressure will build eventually. And I think

00:17:57.780 you'll see what they'll do is they will not regulate the podcaster. They will regulate the carriers of

00:18:04.580 the podcasts and do so in a way that will cause those, the carriers, YouTube or Spotify or whatever,

00:18:13.780 to suppress certain podcasts and elevate others. That can certainly become the case with Canadian content.

00:18:22.020 I mean, Joe Rogan is the most listened to podcast in Canada. That's not Canadian content.

00:18:28.820 Canadian content proponents would probably like to see that change.

00:18:34.580 And it's so frustrating because in order for us to try to understand the world we live in,

00:18:40.740 and in particular, from the taxpayers perspective, what the government is going to do,

00:18:45.620 we need to be able to have free and open access to the media and news channels that we choose.

00:18:51.860 So for example, I listen to Ben Shapiro quite often, and he actually has quite a few insights into what's

00:18:58.340 happening in Canada. And some of his takes on things like tariffs, which are just trade taxes,

00:19:03.780 are spot on. He's been calling them trade taxes ever since Trump started imposing them. And we started

00:19:08.500 getting into this tariff war. And he's the one that hosted Alberta Premier Daniel Smith,

00:19:13.060 and that entire show was put on his show. And so you get these insights. But again,

00:19:17.700 I shouldn't have to be explaining my content choices and my listening preferences to the government,

00:19:23.220 ergo the CRTC. My concern is exactly what you just illustrated. Sure, they may not be going after

00:19:31.540 directly the content creator, right? That one person that's on YouTube that has a channel.

00:19:36.740 But if they go after YouTube itself, they could be less likely to platform and host a problematic

00:19:45.940 Canadian podcaster. I just see this as a direct route, as a way of form of censorship and at least

00:19:52.660 suppressing information. When's the next big hurdle? Is there something that people who are watching

00:19:57.940 this show, because they're definitely interested in this, is there something they can do to kind

00:20:02.900 of bend the ear and get them to move away from this? Not at this stage, because the input period for

00:20:11.860 the CRTC's latest decision closed. I mean, to be fair to them, the CRTC has spoken about how it wants to get

00:20:21.940 more input from the general public into these processes and that sort of stuff. But at the end

00:20:27.700 of the day, it's never well known, it's never well advertised that, you know, if you want to speak up

00:20:32.580 on the future of Canadian content right here, do this, do that. And frankly, the opposition parties

00:20:38.180 aren't very good at promoting it either. They sort of stay away from that, that sort of thing. So it ends up

00:20:44.580 being very low profile, until it's not. So the next decision will be the one, it's really the one where

00:20:52.900 the rubber hits the road, in terms of, because it's going to decide on the funding, and news will be

00:21:00.500 involved in more funding for news organizations, and the profile of Canadian content within streaming

00:21:08.420 companies. People I talk to sort of are expecting that, you know, middle of January, something like

00:21:18.260 that. It gets tricky, because if the CRTC is not supposed to think about these things, but it's

00:21:25.380 certainly aware of these things. And if they look like too much like they're beating up on the American

00:21:32.580 streaming companies, even though there's a cultural exemption in the free trade agreement with the US,

00:21:38.900 that doesn't mean that they won't retaliate. Yep. Right. So if they go too far,

00:21:46.340 and the Americans have been watching this very closely, and it looks like we're outsourcing all

00:21:51.860 of our cultural funding to the United States and expecting them to pay for it in the same way they

00:21:56.740 pay for military protection. It's another 10% on steel, like it wouldn't be within that sort of thing,

00:22:06.580 or Trump has talked about, you know, wanting 100% tariff on movies not made in the States. Well,

00:22:14.740 I don't think it's practical to do that, because how you would define that. But you know, in Alberta,

00:22:20.420 Canada and Ontario and Toronto and Vancouver, for sure, and other parts of Canada, making American

00:22:28.260 movies and TV series is a big part of the industry. It is. It is. There's a cop show I watched that's

00:22:36.820 supposedly in Boston, but it's clearly filmed in Toronto. It happens all the time.

00:22:41.460 Yeah. I mean, The Last of Us was the big hit that was worth about $150 million for Alberta.

00:22:47.860 Yeah, they included a shot of the bridge here in Lethbridge that was, you know, hanging there,

00:22:52.020 half burnt. I wanted to wrap up with this one element then. I will point out quickly that I

00:22:58.660 subscribed to the CRTC's updates, their emails of like, you know, oh, we're doing this and our

00:23:04.020 decision's coming up on this and that sort of thing. I went back through my emails. It might be there,

00:23:09.140 but I don't remember a big blasty email saying, everybody come tell us what you think about Canadian

00:23:14.340 content. It wasn't there as far as I could see it. So to your point, it's very kind of under the radar.

00:23:22.260 Only those in the know who are part of the industry, it seems, and within the mainstream media little set

00:23:28.260 seem to be able to give their input to this, which is again, raising my alarm bells. Peter, what can

00:23:36.020 people do that is practical right now? Should they still voice their concerns with their member of

00:23:41.060 parliament saying something like we want more free and easy access to the information and entertainment

00:23:46.100 we choose? Yeah, excuse me. Yes. Yes, they should. Because I don't think the official opposition or

00:23:52.020 the unofficial oppositions do a very good job of keeping an eye on these things. I mean, when I was

00:23:58.820 living in Ottawa and working at the CRTC, I was amazed at how little people knew about what was going on

00:24:05.380 there or other institutions like that. Everybody's so focused on the daily question period and that

00:24:10.980 sort of stuff, they can't see the forest for the trees and essentially. So they should be keeping

00:24:16.260 their local MP aware. They should be watching for this decision coming up. They should be asking that

00:24:23.780 their media keep an eye out for it too and keep an eye on that because practically, it will make a

00:24:31.540 difference. Like, I mean, there's no point in the CRTC doing anything if it's not going to make a

00:24:36.420 difference, right? Because people are expecting it to make a difference. Whether it makes a good

00:24:41.300 difference or a bad difference is really the issue. It's possible it can make no difference, right? It

00:24:48.980 might get cold feet on the issue and try to smooth it through so that they don't make Donald Trump any

00:24:56.100 grumpier than he already is. Yes, let's avoid that. Peter Menzies, thank you so much for your time

00:25:01.140 today. We appreciate it. Always a pleasure. Thank you. Once again, that is Peter Menzies. He is the

00:25:07.220 former editor of the Calgary Herald. He has been a journalist for decades and he was the vice chair

00:25:14.020 of the CRTC and thankfully he is keeping up on everything. Go check out his channel on X, formerly

00:25:22.180 known as Twitter, and go check out his sub stack. Subscribe to it if you can because he is always talking to the

00:25:29.860 news makers, especially when it comes to how we get information in Canada. Because remember,

00:25:37.460 if you can't get access to information, you can't hold the government to account. Speaking of

00:25:42.580 independent journalism, be sure to head on over to Juneau News. Subscribe to Juneau News. They are not

00:25:48.100 funded by the government, which is true journalism. Thank you so much for joining us and be sure to share

00:25:53.620 the show with people who need to know.

Juno News - December 10, 2025

Liberals want to control what you watch online

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript