00:05:18.160isn't necessarily making its way to the Cuban people.
00:05:21.860And recently, Democratic Spaces and Human Rights Action Group, we published a long report on Cuban policy and so on.
00:05:29.500And one of our recommendations actually deals with this very fact.
00:05:32.360We recommended that Canada put pressure on the Cuban government to legalize independent civil society organizations on the ground in Cuba.
00:05:40.760That would be a better place to ensure that aid delivery actually makes its way to those who need it the most.
00:05:47.280So that's something I think concrete as well that Canada can do in terms of supporting the human rights defenders on the ground and hopefully make a dent because certainly that aid is essential, but it's not helpful if it doesn't actually make its way to the people.
00:06:01.700There was a report recently, again, you have to wonder about the veracity of it, but it suggested that the Cuban government was ready to liberalize its economy to a degree by inviting expats who had made it big outside of Cuba and made money and wanted to invest on the island to be able to do so.
00:06:21.880In other words, to be able to own property and run businesses.
00:06:35.760I wouldn't be that hopeful about that absent large scale systemic legal changes, because as it stands, independent CSOs, as I said, are not legal in Cuba.
00:06:45.940The government still regulates self-employment in virtually every industry.
00:06:52.120And then we have military conglomerates running the tourism sector.
00:06:56.100So to the extent that money goes into the country, much of it across many industries goes to these military conglomerates that then use it effectively to repress the people.
00:07:06.940So more businesses, more money isn't necessarily going to solve the problem without, as I said, widespread legal changes.
00:07:14.260and that also includes the criminal code in Cuba, which is currently used to repress political
00:07:19.780protesters when you have offenses including things like acting against the public morality and order
00:07:27.540and so on. It's a very deeply embedded system. Have you been on the island at all? Have you
00:07:36.100interacted with the government with elements of maybe the opposition in Cuba such as it exists?
00:07:43.460have you done any of that personally? Yes, of course. And we talk with
00:07:47.460Cuban human rights defenders regularly. We've also liaised with Canadian government officials
00:07:52.340to try to encourage meetings between the Canadian embassy personnel in Havana
00:07:56.500and civil society. Unfortunately, as of now, we have not been successful in that endeavor. And
00:08:02.020that's yet another problem and an indicator of this sort of deep seated, repressive system across
00:08:07.780all levels of government. What would you like to see happen in Cuba right now?
00:08:13.860I would like to see political prisoners released. And interestingly, we did see a number of detainees
00:08:19.220released recently in connection with the Vatican, but very few of any of those were political
00:08:24.420prisoners. I believe there were a handful that were released on house arrest, so not true freedom and
00:08:29.780only a small fraction were political prisoners. So I'd like to see those people be given freedom.
00:08:35.380I'd like to see the Canadian government do more as well to support efforts on the ground in Cuba.
00:08:41.300Specifically, what would you like the Canadian government to do?
00:08:44.420Impose targeted sanctions on officials responsible for gross human rights violations,
00:08:49.380ensure that the Canadian embassy is meeting with civil society actors, as Canadian embassies all
00:08:54.740over the world are supposed to do. I would like to see the CRTC ban Cuba Vision Internationale,
00:09:01.860given that they've banned RT and RT France, and now CubaVision is rebroadcasting RT and RT France
00:09:08.340programming. This is something we brought up at the Foreign Interference Inquiry a year and a
00:09:12.660half ago. There's a lot that we can do, and none of it requires wholesale legal change in Canada
00:09:19.460as well, just using the tools that we have across the board, not just in places like Russia, Ukraine,
00:09:24.980or Belarus, but also with respect to Cuba. A lot of Canadians go to Cuba for vacation,
00:09:32.820and sometimes you have to wonder who benefits from that. I mean, you mentioned earlier about
00:09:38.500the aid that goes to Cuba, you know, ends up in the hands of the administration, the government,
00:09:44.980and they decide who gets what, if anything. Are you in favor of Canadians continuing to travel to
00:09:52.580Cuba under the conditions that it's in or not? I'm certainly in favor of Canadians understanding
00:10:00.260what happens when they travel to cuba as tourists and spend their money on vacations there
00:10:05.060i think one of the major problems now is that there's so little awareness of what's going on
00:10:09.460on the island that folks are going on vacations and enjoying themselves and not realizing that
00:10:14.100a lot of those tourist dollars go to the military conglomerates that that repress the cuban people
00:10:19.780and i would hope and believe that with a little more awareness of that canadians would choose
00:10:23.700different places to vacation okay so you are not and when people tell you they're going to cuba
00:10:30.900you say well have you considered something else is is that does that conversation happen
00:10:36.660um actually it hasn't happened uh not among my circle anyway okay so when's when are you planning
00:10:45.460another trip to that country or are you nothing's on the books at the moment no and how do people
00:10:53.700find out more about the group that you are part of this humanitarian organization that you co-founded
00:11:00.880the human rights action group well we're not on social media simply because we're a small team
00:11:07.240we don't have people to do that yet you can go to our website at rightsactiongroup.org i'd also
00:11:13.480encourage folks who are interested in learning more to follow democratic spaces that's our
00:11:17.460client organization the cuban group that we work closely with and have for many years it's run by
00:11:22.200Michael Lima, who's an incredible advocate for the Cuban people. There are all sorts of other
00:11:27.900Cuban human rights defenders that are worth following on social media. And otherwise,
00:11:31.780Rosa Maria Paya is excellent. Jose Ferrier, who was recently released from prison in Cuba,
00:11:37.860and now I believe lives in Miami. So there's a whole host of information out there for people
00:11:43.260to find. I wonder if you're on the Cuban government's radar screen, if they're aware
00:11:48.980of what you do and whether or not they're monitoring your activities. Have you considered
00:11:53.980that? Certainly. I've been blacklisted at this point by China and Russia. So it's not
00:12:00.600out of the normal course of my day-to-day to be on the radar of foreign governments.
00:12:06.120Okay. Well, thank you very much for coming on the show. We appreciate it. How do people support
00:12:11.020the work that you do? Donations are always welcome. We have a donate button on our website.