Juno News - Lockdown Stockholm Syndrome

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.680 Coming up, the mainstream media's obsession with lockdowns,

00:00:16.540 one veteran's stand for John A. Macdonald,

00:00:19.000 and a recap on Iran's sham of an election.

00:00:24.180 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:30.840 Hello and welcome to another edition of Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:35.740 This is the Andrew Lawton Show on True North, Tuesday, June 22nd, 2021.

00:00:41.220 I'm not even going to give you the count of how many days into two weeks to flatten the curve are.

00:00:46.380 I did it for a little while, not necessarily specific days,

00:00:49.440 but I'd say, oh, you know, we're, you know, 57 weeks into two weeks to flatten the curve or whatever.

00:00:54.260 And the reality is it just got too depressing.

00:00:56.980 And I've had a little bit of what, not lockdown envy, because I'm not envying the lockdown,

00:01:02.620 but I guess anti-lockdown envy, seeing other countries around the world that have been reopening,

00:01:07.720 people going to beach parties, going to nightclubs, concerts.

00:01:10.840 Not that I go to beach parties, nightclubs, or concerts in the before times,

00:01:15.620 but I'd like to know that I have the option, which I certainly don't in the province of Ontario.

00:01:20.540 And now I'm even getting domestic envy, seeing other provinces that are in the process of opening up.

00:01:26.800 Alberta last week announced that it is going to be wide open by Canada Day,

00:01:31.700 with just basically no restrictions except for just a couple of very narrow areas like long-term care homes.

00:01:37.540 That was how Premier Jason Kenney announced it.

00:01:40.840 And then over the weekend, Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe,

00:01:43.720 something very similar for Saskatchewan, restriction-free by July 11th.

00:01:48.780 And if you look at all of these different jurisdictions, New York,

00:01:52.040 which is not the model of how to handle the pandemic,

00:01:54.640 New York has said, we hit our vaccination threshold, we're open, we're going restriction-free.

00:01:59.540 Well, Ontario had the same number of people with their first doses as New York had with first doses,

00:02:06.020 but Ontario was doubling down on the lockdown and continues to do so.

00:02:10.680 The best that we might get is, ooh, maybe, just maybe you can get a haircut before July is over in Ontario.

00:02:16.900 I mean, I'm long overdue, but that's basically the approach here.

00:02:20.280 So even within Canada, you've got provinces that are opening up

00:02:23.520 and others that are digging their heels in and saying no.

00:02:27.540 And what's worse is that you have people that think this is okay,

00:02:31.840 that think this is actually how you are supposed to run things.

00:02:35.100 One of the big problems that I see looking around, especially in the mainstream media,

00:02:40.980 there's an attitude of, I'm going to call it lockdown Stockholm syndrome.

00:02:46.040 People that have now just allowed themselves to be consumed by this mindset

00:02:50.720 that a lockdown is the only way to go.

00:02:53.060 People who, by the way, have not dealt with the real losses

00:02:55.920 that lockdowns have unleashed on people in society.

00:02:59.200 People that don't have the elite jobs that let them work from home.

00:03:02.840 People that don't have big houses with yards.

00:03:05.820 People that are cooped up in small apartments.

00:03:07.920 So the reality is a lot of the people that are cheering for lockdowns

00:03:11.320 are the ones that have not had the same lockdown experience

00:03:15.840 as a lot of the people that they are trying to govern and lord over.

00:03:22.000 And one of the great examples of this is a piece in TVO,

00:03:25.880 which is the Ontario provincial version of CBC from one journalist who says,

00:03:30.340 Dear Premier Ford, please don't reopen early.

00:03:34.540 New cases are down.

00:03:35.740 More and more Ontarians are vaccinated.

00:03:37.360 But the numbers aren't where we need them to be right now.

00:03:40.700 And I'm going to pick on this piece because it encapsulates the attitude

00:03:44.000 that we see from a lot of other journalists when they're asking questions.

00:03:47.900 Anytime someone speaks up and says,

00:03:50.000 Hey, we're opening, like happened with Jason Kenney at his press conference on,

00:03:53.740 I think it was Friday, you get reporters that start asking,

00:03:56.580 Well, how can we open?

00:03:57.660 Why are you opening?

00:03:58.860 It's like people should be cheering for this.

00:04:00.800 People should be saying,

00:04:01.700 Why has it taken so long?

00:04:03.920 Not, are you sure we're ready to reopen just now?

00:04:07.740 And I said months ago that we cannot allow ourselves to adopt a new normal.

00:04:13.820 And this is what I fear and what I actually see is happening when we look around us.

00:04:19.040 People have internalized this idea, this mentality,

00:04:21.980 and they think this is the way a society is supposed to function.

00:04:26.860 So Stockholm syndrome is the best way to characterize it.

00:04:30.040 People that now have been convinced that government is the dispenser of freedoms

00:04:34.660 rather than simply the barrier for you to enjoy your freedoms.

00:04:40.200 In this TBO piece, it says,

00:04:41.820 I sincerely sympathize with businesses that have been closed,

00:04:45.100 workers who have been disemployed,

00:04:47.000 and even just citizens who want to do the things they would normally be allowed to do.

00:04:51.220 You don't need an excuse to want a haircut or a pedicure.

00:04:54.960 We are all owed our liberties back as soon as it's safe enough.

00:05:00.040 It's the as soon as it's safe enough thing that we're getting stuck on right now.

00:05:06.060 Liberties are liberties.

00:05:07.740 And in times of crisis, in times of emergency,

00:05:10.360 these are the points when liberty is most important,

00:05:13.620 but also sadly when it is in the shortest supply.

00:05:17.620 I'm going to talk in a few moments about the federal court decision

00:05:20.820 that came down on Friday about hotel quarantine.

00:05:23.780 And then this week, the adjustment to the hotel quarantine plan

00:05:27.440 that the federal liberal government announced.

00:05:30.040 But the reality is you are owed your liberties at any point and at every point.

00:05:35.500 None of this will when it's safe enough,

00:05:37.040 because the reality is liberty is not in conflict with safety.

00:05:41.760 And anyone who says liberty is in conflict with safety isn't looking at the science,

00:05:45.940 and I would argue is not particularly concerned with protecting liberty.

00:05:50.340 They're looking for excuses.

00:05:52.840 The pandemic has brought out the worst in a lot of people and continues to.

00:05:57.120 And I've been sympathetic about this because I realized that

00:06:00.100 this is going to manifest in very different ways for different people.

00:06:04.720 But a video that really rubbed me the wrong way

00:06:07.040 was this one that went viral over the weekend from a Toronto mall.

00:06:11.540 Now, I don't know the people involved,

00:06:13.600 but what you can glean from the video is that a woman was minding her own business,

00:06:17.360 but was not wearing a mask.

00:06:19.420 Now, she claims she has a medical exemption.

00:06:21.720 Human rights law in Ontario says it's none of anyone's business.

00:06:25.460 But take a look at what happens.

00:06:27.140 This lady here is in the mall without a mask. 1.00

00:06:32.760 Yep, got you.

00:06:33.840 Yeah, that's okay.

00:06:34.700 Yeah, that's okay.

00:06:35.400 You don't have a mask on.

00:06:37.240 What is your...

00:06:38.000 Who are you?

00:06:39.020 I've just come to the mall to pick up.

00:06:40.380 Okay, yeah, sure. 0.90

00:06:41.360 And you are a threat. 0.58

00:06:42.180 What is your name?

00:06:43.240 What is your name? 0.99

00:06:43.760 You're a threat. 0.53

00:06:44.400 Sir, everybody's complaining about her with no mask on. 1.00

00:06:50.620 Everybody's got a mask.

00:06:51.720 Sir, she's examining you.

00:06:53.200 Where?

00:06:54.320 She told you.

00:06:55.280 You believe what she says?

00:06:56.560 No, no, no.

00:06:56.920 I don't.

00:06:58.540 The police needs to come, bro.

00:07:00.000 This is not fair.

00:07:01.540 There's a lot to unpack there.

00:07:03.140 And I have to say, kudos to the security guards.

00:07:05.500 The security guards did not descend on the woman.

00:07:08.200 They were more interested in the guy who was harassing and it looked like could have assaulted

00:07:14.060 the woman.

00:07:14.580 Didn't.

00:07:14.980 But if a guy is steamrolling towards you is very angry, you're right to be as anyone concerned

00:07:20.840 about what's going to happen.

00:07:22.320 But here's the thing.

00:07:23.380 He is pretending that, you know what, it's dangerous to have her in a mall however many

00:07:28.280 feet, 20 feet away from him without a mask.

00:07:30.500 And what does he do with this risk, this fear he gets in her face?

00:07:36.260 If you believe that an unmasked person is so diseased that they are risking your safety

00:07:42.540 and that of everyone around you, you don't walk right in front of them.

00:07:46.900 This is not about health for these people.

00:07:50.120 It is about control.

00:07:52.760 And again, I am sympathetic.

00:07:54.540 People have bad days.

00:07:55.720 And I hate this culture of just whipping out their phone and trying to harass people

00:08:00.880 online because you caught them in a terrible moment.

00:08:03.500 And I don't like that.

00:08:04.520 And the reason I'm sharing this one is because he was doing it to her.

00:08:10.140 That's what he was trying to do to her.

00:08:11.620 He was trying to harass her because for whatever reason, she can't wear a mask.

00:08:16.500 And if he doesn't like that, well, you know what?

00:08:18.400 Make sure you stay away from her.

00:08:19.980 He was the only one that had a problem with it.

00:08:22.480 But this is what government's responses to COVID have done.

00:08:28.640 They have created this snitch culture. 0.52

00:08:30.720 They have created this culture where you feel like you are a virtuous citizen.

00:08:35.340 If you out your neighbor for having people over, if you report someone to police or to

00:08:40.400 security for not wearing a mask, if you call the health inspectors or cops on this church

00:08:45.260 that you heard something from or this business that you think had opened its doors.

00:08:48.620 Of course, I've heard from a number of people, law-abiding citizens who don't have a rebellious

00:08:52.840 bone in their body that have completely had enough of this by now.

00:08:57.060 And there seem to be three types of people remaining.

00:08:59.980 There are those who will follow the rules because they're the rules.

00:09:03.220 There are those who will follow the rules and more because they believe in them.

00:09:07.300 They believe that they are rooted in science.

00:09:09.780 And then there are those who want to be the self-appointed enforcers of the rules.

00:09:15.060 As though what's been missing in this pandemic is enforcement.

00:09:20.120 That's what's been missing, these people think.

00:09:22.080 People like them to call others out for not behaving the way they do.

00:09:27.940 And there are going to be people who, whenever mask mandates are lifted, continue to wear masks.

00:09:32.480 There are going to be people who, whenever social distancing measures are restricted,

00:09:36.420 will continue to social distance.

00:09:38.580 And to those people, I say have at it.

00:09:40.640 If it makes you feel safe, do it.

00:09:43.280 But people need to protect themselves.

00:09:45.840 People need to look out for themselves.

00:09:48.780 And we should be encouraging people to come up with responses to the world around them

00:09:54.100 that suit their needs.

00:09:56.780 If this woman was trying to get in everyone else's face without wearing a mask, 1.00

00:10:00.200 I would be on their side to say, hey lady, back off. 1.00

00:10:03.820 If she is, as the video suggests, minding her own business, keeping her distance,

00:10:08.300 and the only people that are getting within her six-foot bubble are those trying to complain 0.95

00:10:13.360 that she is not being COVID safe enough.

00:10:16.360 She's not exhibiting enough in the way of pandemic precautions.

00:10:19.960 How are we at all supposed to say that this has anything to do with science at this point?

00:10:23.680 It does not.

00:10:24.980 People are getting off on control and getting off on power.

00:10:28.920 And this permanent emergency is bringing out the worst in this.

00:10:32.540 And this is going to continue once the pandemic's over.

00:10:34.860 And by the way, I don't even know if it's going to be over.

00:10:37.460 I don't think there's going to be a point when Canada says we won.

00:10:40.980 We have a few provinces that are doing that, places like Alberta and Saskatchewan.

00:10:45.900 But we don't have Justin Trudeau saying it's over now.

00:10:49.860 Just this week, the federal government announced it was going to be making amendments to its quarantine

00:10:54.860 plan.

00:10:55.460 So as of July 5th at midnight, you no longer have to go to a hotel quarantine if you are fully

00:11:02.320 vaccinated and you don't have to do the full 14-day home quarantine if you are fully vaccinated.

00:11:09.380 So beyond the obvious problem here, which is that we've now created different classes of

00:11:13.840 citizenship, what we also have unfolding at this point is government trying to say that

00:11:20.060 it's reopening while doing nothing of the sort.

00:11:23.240 So on July 5th, the few people that are able to travel internationally if they're fully

00:11:27.460 vaccinated, which has not been an easy feat in Canada if you want to get vaccinated, they're

00:11:32.500 not going to have to stay at the hotel for $2,000, the one where in Montreal they don't

00:11:37.580 even put the lock on the door and all that jazz.

00:11:40.640 And then at the same time, the government has also extended the border shutdown with the

00:11:46.080 U.S. to at least July 21st.

00:11:49.020 And then this morning, Bill Blair said this, explaining when the border will open for people

00:11:55.060 to come into Canada who want to visit.

00:11:56.980 Discussions are ongoing with provincial territory and international partners with the aim of

00:12:01.780 allowing for non-essential travel of fully vaccinated foreign nationals into Canada in

00:12:06.300 the coming months.

00:12:07.500 You heard that right.

00:12:08.800 Bill Blair says it's going to be a matter of months until non-essential travel is permitted

00:12:15.140 in Canada.

00:12:16.480 And what they mean by non-essential travel is someone from Port Huron, Michigan, wanting

00:12:20.100 to go to Sarnia for the day.

00:12:21.160 I don't know why you'd want to go to Sarnia for the day.

00:12:23.320 No offense to the people there.

00:12:24.780 But if someone wanted to go to Sarnia for the day, that's what he's talking about there.

00:12:28.600 So not weeks, months, which means we're talking about until the fall, until the border reopens.

00:12:35.680 And there have been numerous American congressmen and congresswomen that have spoken up about

00:12:40.460 this and said that this is wrong.

00:12:42.440 The one particularly strong, I won't read it, but you can see in the headline here, he

00:12:47.100 called it a load of BS that we are still dealing with a border closure.

00:12:51.400 And it's Canada.

00:12:52.180 This is entirely Canada's doing. 0.96

00:12:54.300 The U.S. would be just as happy to open the floodgates as it has with its air travel.

00:12:59.700 This is why Canadians can fly into the U.S. 1.00

00:13:02.320 They just have to drive back if they've wanted to get out of the hotel quarantine up until

00:13:06.860 this point.

00:13:07.440 So this comes just a few days after the Federal Court of Canada ruled that the hotel quarantine

00:13:14.140 was constitutional.

00:13:16.280 They said it was constitutional.

00:13:18.040 They did not say in the decision that it doesn't violate rights and freedoms, that it's not

00:13:23.180 detention.

00:13:23.660 No, no, no.

00:13:24.160 The decision said, yes, it's detention.

00:13:26.260 Yes, it violates your liberty.

00:13:28.080 Yes, it violates your constitutional freedoms and rights.

00:13:31.180 But all of it's justified.

00:13:32.660 This was, I completely admit, not an unsurprising decision.

00:13:37.860 I tend to have very low hopes and expectations when it comes to these sorts of things.

00:13:43.000 But the brazenness with which the Chief Justice of the Federal Court approached this was something

00:13:48.460 that I had to share.

00:13:50.100 This is Chief Justice Paul Crampton, who said that these are sacrifices that people are making

00:13:56.820 of their liberty.

00:13:58.120 Sacrifices.

00:13:58.740 That's what he called them.

00:13:59.620 And in doing so, he said that like times of war and other crises, pandemics call for sacrifices

00:14:07.880 to save lives and avoid broad-based suffering.

00:14:11.420 If some are unwilling to make such sacrifices and engage in behavior that poses a demonstrated

00:14:17.200 risk to the health and safety of others, the principles of fundamental justice will not

00:14:22.660 prevent the state from performing its essential function of protecting its citizens from that

00:14:28.160 risk.

00:14:28.540 But what he's saying is the flip side of that old quote by Benjamin Franklin, that those

00:14:33.740 who would give up some liberty for a bit of safety deserve neither.

00:14:37.820 And this is something I talked about on Friday when the decision came down.

00:14:41.300 I've had some more time to read through it over the weekend.

00:14:44.440 And the dangerous part of all of this is that it completely licenses the government the

00:14:49.500 next time an emergency comes around or something they classify as an emergency to impose

00:14:55.400 basically any measures and restrictions they want, so long as they say it's about public

00:15:01.280 health.

00:15:01.880 And whether you're talking about the government that's locking people up into hotel gulags when

00:15:07.200 they fly into the country, the government that is not allowing people to visit family and

00:15:12.560 friends across the border, the guy that's trying to enforce mask mandates in a mall when no

00:15:18.600 one is in harm's way, all of these things are going to exist long beyond when they are revoked

00:15:27.560 or rescinded.

00:15:28.440 They're going to exist because these are now ingrained in the culture.

00:15:32.920 These are now ingrained, these cultural attitudes of snitching, these cultural attitudes of locking

00:15:37.760 people down, these cultural attitudes of ticketing those who stand up and say no to this,

00:15:43.480 of ticketing protesters of this, all of these things have become internalized by a country

00:15:48.360 that doesn't even by and large seem like it wants to reopen.

00:15:53.620 And this is one thing that I think shamefully sets Canada apart from other countries around

00:15:59.720 the world.

00:16:00.440 Not talking about people in my circles or people listening in to this show, but broadly in Canadian

00:16:06.480 society, there seem to be huge swaths of people that do not want to reopen, that are not ready.

00:16:12.600 People that essentially are buying what the government's been selling, which is that,

00:16:16.720 no, no, no, we tell you when it's ready.

00:16:19.200 We tell you when you're ready.

00:16:20.920 We tell you when the world can go back to normal.

00:16:23.540 You don't get to tell us, we tell you.

00:16:26.760 And if you look in the United States, if you look in to some extent Alberta, Alberta is a

00:16:30.780 great example of this.

00:16:31.840 It was the people that told the government, no, we're not, we're not being locked down,

00:16:36.240 which is why I think Alberta took such a heavy handed approach to enforcement because 0.86

00:16:40.940 people were saying, we're not having any of this.

00:16:44.760 Elsewhere, people seem to be going along for it.

00:16:47.060 They are along for the ride.

00:16:48.140 And this is going to have very significant consequences in Canada whenever something comes

00:16:53.980 up, even something as minor as a flu season comes up and people will fall right back into

00:16:58.960 what I fear has been the permanently adopted new normal.

00:17:04.420 Not in my books, I can assure you.

00:17:06.320 Before we take a break here, I want to just share something with you very exciting.

00:17:10.980 You know, if you've been listening to this show for a while that I set out earlier this

00:17:14.960 year to go not to every province in Canada, but to travel and talk to a cross section of

00:17:20.300 people in many parts of this country who are law abiding gun owners, people that have

00:17:25.240 been very directly and very significantly affected by the liberal government's gun bans.

00:17:31.700 And I want to share the first trailer, the first sneak peek at footage from this documentary

00:17:36.920 project I'm making, Assaulted, Justin Trudeau's War on Gun Owners, which just came out this

00:17:42.020 week.

00:17:47.960 We are closing the market for military grade assault weapons in Canada.

00:17:53.200 It really is my identity, it really is my culture, and it's every bit as legitimate as anyone else's

00:18:04.260 culture.

00:18:07.920 We're just regular people that go out and have this as part of our being.

00:18:16.300 We are not the problem, the guns are not the problem, right?

00:18:20.160 It's the public's perception that has become the problem.

00:18:23.200 On one hand, I'm literally, I'm going to the Olympics, I get to represent Canada, it is

00:18:31.560 one of the greatest privileges that I ever get to do, that I get to wear the maple leaf

00:18:36.140 and represent Canada.

00:18:37.080 It is such a privilege.

00:18:39.100 And on the other hand, I'm so devastated that I have no idea if at some point I'm going to

00:18:44.040 get thrown in jail because I've missed, I've missed something.

00:18:47.080 They actually pulled up, they got out, they had their guns drawn, and it was pretty much

00:18:57.480 I opened the front door and they're like, you're under arrest and you need to come with

00:19:01.300 us.

00:19:01.660 Very excited to share that trailer with you.

00:19:24.240 In the meantime, got to take a quick break here when we come back, more of The Andrew

00:19:34.040 Lawton Show here on True North.

00:19:35.600 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:19:53.060 We have been speaking at great length over recent weeks about the taking down of statues, the

00:19:59.100 vandalizing of statues, the denaming of buildings, schools, anything and everything that is named

00:20:06.200 after or honors a person in history seems to be fair game.

00:20:10.740 People whose greatest sin, perhaps their only sin, is living in an era that is not the current

00:20:15.340 one, are finding themselves cancelled posthumously by the mob.

00:20:20.340 The one of these that has always disturbed me more than the others is John A. Macdonald.

00:20:25.600 I've talked about him at great length.

00:20:27.400 He's a man for whom history has, I think, a very favorable legacy and a very positive legacy.

00:20:33.760 Whatever the differences are between the 19th century and the 21st century, John A. Macdonald

00:20:39.540 was a beacon of progress and he held confederation together against the odds and the Canada we have

00:20:45.860 today is in no small part due to his efforts back in the 1860s and beyond.

00:20:53.120 And when John A. Macdonald is targeted by the mob, it is particularly disingenuous that a country

00:20:59.720 that affords people the right to speak their mind was founded by the guy they're speaking their mind

00:21:05.100 to criticize.

00:21:05.920 And there was a display on the weekend in Kingston on Friday morning in which the city took down

00:21:13.000 the statue of John A. Macdonald, not just the former Prime Minister of Canada, but also a

00:21:18.560 former member of Parliament for Kingston.

00:21:20.900 And in the face of this, two men stood out, men who served this country wearing some military

00:21:27.240 insignia, holding Canadian flags, taking a stand for John A. Macdonald at his feet.

00:21:33.160 A minority display in Canada, given the landscape of these things, but one that stands out all

00:21:38.760 the more.

00:21:39.760 One of these men, Gordon Olke, is a town councillor in nearby Leeds and Thousand Islands.

00:21:45.120 He joins me now.

00:21:46.760 Gordon, it's good to talk to you.

00:21:47.800 Thanks for coming on today.

00:21:49.760 Thank you.

00:21:50.680 So why did you decide to put on your old uniform, carry the flag and stand at Sir John

00:21:56.720 A. Macdonald's feet the way you did?

00:21:58.780 Well, let me be clear about my order of dress.

00:22:02.160 It's not a uniform because I retired from the Army in 2013.

00:22:07.240 I'm no longer entitled to wear a Canadian Army uniform, but there are certain standards

00:22:12.320 we are, as veterans, encouraged to wear at various times, which is your old regimental

00:22:19.000 beret with cap badge, the decorations you were awarded for service.

00:22:23.940 And that's really the only guideline.

00:22:26.160 So I stood as someone who was a soldier at one time.

00:22:31.120 And to answer your other question, my friend and I just thought we should do something.

00:22:40.420 We thought we should stand and defend Sir John in some way and defend our own heritage in

00:22:46.540 some way.

00:22:47.200 Not denying that there was anything that should not be corrected, that there were not issues

00:22:53.460 that needed to be addressed.

00:22:55.440 But I don't think one should throw the baby out with the bathwater all the time, which

00:22:58.960 seems to be the trend.

00:23:01.420 It's worth noting that Sir John does not only have a significant place in the history of

00:23:06.620 Canada, but in Kingston specifically.

00:23:09.800 In Kingston, he's a local hero as much as he is a national hero.

00:23:13.640 And again, all of that seems insignificant to these people petitioning to have these sorts

00:23:17.840 of statues taken down.

00:23:21.260 Well, I think there's been a failure in this country in the teaching of history.

00:23:26.160 I'm not sure they teach any history anymore.

00:23:28.760 I'm old enough to remember the grade 13 history I took, which was essentially European history,

00:23:35.420 which taught me a lot of things which have stood me in very good stead in my career, where

00:23:40.520 I went around the world and dealt with other cultures.

00:23:42.480 And we took quite, in those days, quite comprehensive history in terms of the sense of development

00:23:50.120 of constitutions and the progress of society, you know, from the dark ages or from the classical

00:23:55.240 era up to our present time.

00:23:57.180 That all seems to have gone.

00:23:58.760 And people follow slogans and fads now and become very emotional about things that are

00:24:03.740 represented to them out of context.

00:24:06.560 And that seems to be a big problem in our society, which I'm not sure how they're going

00:24:10.400 to address.

00:24:10.860 A lot of the thrust behind this has been ostensibly, or at least purportedly, under the auspices

00:24:18.500 of reconciliation.

00:24:20.240 But there isn't really any reconciliation taking place when people go after statues.

00:24:26.820 And you had said when we were corresponding earlier and setting this up that it's an inanimate

00:24:31.000 object.

00:24:31.620 No one's interests are served by its removal.

00:24:33.880 Well, what I heard around me in the crowd, I was taunted.

00:24:42.640 I was shadowed.

00:24:46.320 I heard things like, we've just started.

00:24:49.100 Watch and see what we do next.

00:24:51.100 This is just the beginning.

00:24:52.860 I heard one woman speaking on a cell phone.

00:24:55.200 I didn't hear the other end of the conversation, of course.

00:24:58.180 And it may just have been emotional blather of the moment.

00:25:00.840 But I heard this woman speaking on a cell phone. 0.82

00:25:03.800 We should take that plaque they're taking down now and put it on Sir John A's costume, or

00:25:08.800 McDonald's coffin.

00:25:12.560 Now, my family happens to be buried five generations within about 40 meters of where Sir John is

00:25:18.480 buried.

00:25:18.760 And I'm wondering about future vandalism, future desecration.

00:25:24.940 There was that one flash of someone, someone momentarily, even if they weren't serious, did

00:25:31.060 entertain the idea of desecrating McDonald's burial site.

00:25:36.900 But I was confronted by a young woman who had a coterie of people around her, about four 0.96

00:25:45.500 or five people around her.

00:25:46.420 And she was very in my face.

00:25:49.440 And she tried to say I was muddled.

00:25:53.260 And obviously, I'm an older man.

00:25:55.120 She tried to say I was muddled.

00:25:56.520 And it was one of those social justice warrior types.

00:25:59.800 No matter what you say, it's because of your male-white privilege and all this kind of stuff.

00:26:05.700 You don't understand.

00:26:06.540 You can't understand.

00:26:08.900 And she became rather shrill.

00:26:11.440 And then a police constable came to intervene.

00:26:15.440 And the police constable, a female, told her, you know, this is enough for now.

00:26:20.100 You need to back away from this gentleman.

00:26:22.600 I intervened with the police constable.

00:26:24.180 I said, no, that's fine.

00:26:25.320 I would like to hear what she has to say.

00:26:26.780 And she seems to need to have to say something to me.

00:26:29.200 And the constable left.

00:26:30.260 And so the lady went on. 1.00

00:26:31.980 And eventually, she used the word white supremacist at me. 0.61

00:26:38.280 And then she tried to back away from it.

00:26:41.040 But the friend who stood with me on the monument actually heard it and said, no, no.

00:26:49.560 Both Gordon and I are trained listeners in our former professions.

00:26:52.920 And we heard you.

00:26:54.100 I heard her.

00:26:55.260 And one of her friends who was with her backed off and said, well, I heard white supreme. 0.75

00:26:59.480 But I didn't hear the ending.

00:27:01.540 So she and her friends recoiled very quickly after that.

00:27:06.400 But there were things like that going on.

00:27:09.140 But I mean, that speaks to the level of polarization that has been injected into this, undeservingly

00:27:15.460 so, that you standing up for a Canadian hero, a Canadian historic figure at the very least,

00:27:21.620 at all ends up in the same breath as white supremacy.

00:27:25.180 I mean, backtracking or not, that that is even part of the discussion now.

00:27:29.680 And that I would say that's probably not a rarity in this, is a sign of just, I think,

00:27:34.320 how devoid of sense and historic knowledge a lot of these people that are leading the

00:27:38.460 charge on this really are.

00:27:41.780 I'm not sure what's actually behind it.

00:27:44.360 The thing, I think the thing that disturbed me the most is my sense that the council was

00:27:51.840 intimidated.

00:27:52.540 There was a lot of the coaching of threats behind some of the presentations in that, you

00:28:00.900 know, the people around the monument now are actually protecting it.

00:28:04.820 The sense was, if you don't do what we want, another gang will turn up and there'll be violence

00:28:10.100 and they'll take it down.

00:28:11.600 And I've just sent, I've sent you some documents, perhaps you've just seen them, where you can

00:28:16.420 see this reflected in what city staff and councillors reacted to.

00:28:21.640 So I'm wondering, you know, you had, and there was a recent, there was a local poll taken,

00:28:25.700 and about 92% of the people responded.

00:28:27.880 We're in favour of keeping the statue, perhaps with some embellishments in terms of contextualising

00:28:36.000 history and artwork and things.

00:28:38.940 But the majority of people around here would seem to want to keep the statue.

00:28:42.880 I want to ask about your military service, if I can, Gordon, because when you stand out there

00:28:48.660 and are representing yourself as a veteran, you are someone that has done more to stand

00:28:56.060 up for Canada and Canadian values, I would argue, than a lot of the people that seem

00:29:00.660 to be behind this push to take down the name of John A. McDonald and take down his statues.

00:29:06.020 And I was wondering just how you'd respond to that.

00:29:09.040 And I know that a lot of people that I've spoken to who have service backgrounds are very

00:29:13.720 humble about it.

00:29:14.700 But at the same time, you've done more, I think, to stand up for Canada and Canadian

00:29:19.700 values than a lot of these people that were cheering for the statue's removal.

00:29:26.360 Well, the first thing I would say is that they have every right to do that.

00:29:29.820 And as a soldier, it was part of my duties to defend their right to do that.

00:29:39.400 I don't happen to agree with what they're doing, but they have the right to do it.

00:29:44.440 And members of the forces are sworn to protect that right.

00:29:49.900 So in that regard, I don't mind that they were doing what they were doing.

00:29:56.040 I mind that city council appeared to have loaded their special working group with people who

00:30:04.980 would be negative and that they took a coward's way out.

00:30:08.940 I think city council should have gone with the first option they had, which was to keep

00:30:12.860 the statue in its place, perhaps modify the pedestal somewhat.

00:30:17.760 That would be subject to negotiation.

00:30:19.240 And then add thematic items to give it context and to show respect for the other culture that

00:30:27.700 seems to be stressed.

00:30:31.040 And then there was the other option of taking it down and just stashing it away and whatever.

00:30:36.420 They came up with a third option, which was essentially the second option with a few frills.

00:30:41.740 It was a kind of a sneaky way to show that they were catering to the people like me who

00:30:49.160 wanted to keep the statue, but they really had no intention of doing it.

00:30:54.120 And I think it's a giving way to fear.

00:30:56.940 Wherever they would try to put it up again, whether in its original place or someplace else,

00:31:02.920 the same sort of encampment would occur probably.

00:31:05.740 And I think they're afraid of that.

00:31:06.920 Um, and then they were afraid, I think of the, of the veiled threat that if we didn't

00:31:13.180 do what this group wanted, another group, much less friendly would turn up and take it

00:31:17.380 into their own hands.

00:31:19.000 Well, I, I also sent an email to the, um, mayor asking for my refund of my taxes, uh, for

00:31:25.500 the amount that was paid to the city police.

00:31:27.240 If they're not there to protect me, what do we have them for or, or city property?

00:31:31.480 Yeah.

00:31:33.280 And the city is no better than so many of the vandals who have, uh, gone around destroying

00:31:37.900 and defacing these statues.

00:31:39.280 The difference is that the city has, of course, uh, the backing of being a government when it

00:31:43.860 does this, but the, the result of it is the same, which is that a statue that has been

00:31:47.900 there for years, uh, taken away because of what I would probably say is a minority view

00:31:54.700 among Canadians.

00:31:55.980 I, I, I agree with you.

00:31:57.720 The other thing about that statue, and this is fairly personal and really far removed

00:32:02.940 from my military service, which is what you started to ask me about.

00:32:06.620 Um, when I was small, about three and a half, four, my family was from Kingston and my parents

00:32:11.980 had me there visiting older relatives.

00:32:14.460 And I asked, um, my parents, who was the man standing on the wall with all the cannons?

00:32:19.360 And they explained to me who Sir John A. Macdonald was.

00:32:22.740 And my military career took me all over the world and frequently back to Kingston, but wherever

00:32:26.940 I was, that was a landmark to me, that statue meant something to me.

00:32:31.700 Now, my great grandfather, that was a businessman in Kingston at the time that statue was put

00:32:36.240 up and, you know, a lot of people donated a dollar and people think that's nothing nowadays,

00:32:44.420 but a dollar was the average man's daily wage in 1895.

00:32:48.960 And I, I believe that statue was raised by public subscription.

00:32:55.880 So there's a, there's a sentiment there that ties back to my family and I'm sure many other

00:33:01.140 people in Kingston itself.

00:33:03.580 And for that reason, I thought I should stand in front of it as well as, you know, my own

00:33:09.860 ideology, I suppose.

00:33:10.860 What's been the response since then?

00:33:13.860 Because I've had a number of people, uh, since, uh, I think it was the Canadian press, uh,

00:33:18.320 took a photo of you and your friend there standing with your flags and your berets.

00:33:22.460 I've had a number of people send this, uh, knowing I've been covering this and I'm curious

00:33:26.000 what you've found, uh, in, in the way of response to this, if, if anything.

00:33:30.460 Uh, similar, uh, similar responses.

00:33:32.900 Um, I, I don't use Twitter, but you know, I can see it on my email and one of the journalists

00:33:41.000 put up a presentation on it and there was a lot of responses to it.

00:33:46.180 Um, one person accused us of being false veterans because we weren't old enough to be in, uh,

00:33:52.060 World War II or Korea.

00:33:53.080 Well, that's true, but I did serve in Bosnia and Afghanistan.

00:33:57.720 My friend never made any pretense of that.

00:34:00.720 He was a reservist in the 1970s, but maintains, uh, an interest in contact with his old regiment.

00:34:07.760 So he had his beret and blazer and blazer crest.

00:34:11.680 But, um, the response was, was actually quite heartwarming really overall.

00:34:20.480 And, uh, you know, my friends of course, but many, many people I didn't know had responded

00:34:27.300 to the, the journalist's, um, tweet and, uh, it was very, very heartwarming really.

00:34:33.300 I didn't feel I was alone, put it that way.

00:34:37.100 Well, you, you certainly won't.

00:34:38.820 And I must say, however you would characterize your display, I, I never would have thought

00:34:43.020 that, uh, standing with a Canadian flag in front of a statue of Canada's first prime minister

00:34:48.400 would be an act of protest in a way.

00:34:51.000 But here we are.

00:34:51.700 And that's, uh, in and of itself quite a dark development in this country.

00:34:55.340 Well, I hope the next time someone tries to do that, that other people stand in front

00:35:02.680 of that statue, wherever it is, and, and, and, um, actually force a government to change.

00:35:10.400 If, if we have to do the same tactics to preserve our nation, that people who seem, um, keen to

00:35:17.320 disestablish our nation are using, well, maybe we should. 0.81

00:35:20.620 If, if that's polarizing, well, I think we're already polarized.

00:35:26.360 And I think, um, if there is an average Canadian, they're probably reticent.

00:35:32.880 They're probably very polite.

00:35:34.460 They're probably hardworking.

00:35:36.420 They're probably more worried about their family at any one time than anything else.

00:35:40.480 And, um, it, it, you know, when you have something like this, I, I, I believe, I believe that the,

00:35:49.780 um, the crowd around, uh, that was opposed to the statue wanted it down.

00:35:53.760 I believe a lot of that was financed by the CERB, quite frankly.

00:35:57.860 And, uh, well, there you go.

00:36:00.720 You see, it was also timed on a date and time when most, um, people were getting ready for

00:36:07.400 work, if not on their way for, way to work.

00:36:09.900 If they tried to pull it down on a Saturday or Sunday, there might've been a different story.

00:36:15.740 Very well said.

00:36:16.700 Well, I appreciate you taking a stand.

00:36:18.160 And also I greatly appreciate your service for this country.

00:36:22.000 Gordon Olke.

00:36:22.580 Thank you very much for joining me.

00:36:24.260 Thank you.

00:36:25.240 That was Gordon Olke.

00:36:26.580 The councillor, Gordon Olke, if you are in the Leeds and Thousand Islands area of Ontario,

00:36:31.160 although his stand in Kingston for Johnny MacDonald was simply as someone who loves this country

00:36:36.240 and someone who served the country and us Canadians, we are all the better off for people like Gordon.

00:36:42.020 So I thank him for coming on.

00:36:43.520 We've got to take a quick break.

00:36:44.920 When we come back, more of the Andrew Lawton show here on True North.

00:36:48.140 Stay tuned.

00:36:51.460 You're tuned in to the Andrew Lawton show.

00:36:56.580 Welcome back to the Andrew Lawton show.

00:37:04.800 A couple of weeks ago, we spoke with Ali Safavi of the National Council of Resistance of Iran

00:37:10.360 about the NCRI's push for Iranians to boycott the presidential election.

00:37:17.220 And I say election with a little bit of hesitation.

00:37:19.880 It's not a real election.

00:37:21.540 The candidates are pre-selected essentially by Iran's Ayatollah.

00:37:26.020 And what the NCRI wanted was low voter turnout to basically rebuke the process.

00:37:32.680 And that's exactly what happened.

00:37:35.160 Now, Ibrahim Raisi was elected as president, as everyone predicted, a man who has blood on his hands.

00:37:42.100 We'll talk about that in a moment.

00:37:43.660 But by and large, not a lot of enthusiasm from Iranians to participate in this process.

00:37:48.660 I want to unpack what happened.

00:37:50.600 Joining me is Shaheen Gobadi, who is with the National Council of Resistance of Iran.

00:37:56.300 Shaheen, good to talk to you.

00:37:57.440 Thanks for coming on today.

00:37:58.840 Thank you, Andrew, for having me on.

00:38:00.660 So let's talk first off about the low turnout here.

00:38:03.980 Because when you don't have many options, pretty much the only thing you can do to express your displeasure is not show up.

00:38:10.820 I think what happened in Iran was very significant.

00:38:15.660 You have to keep in mind that the figure the regime announced was actually five-fold increase.

00:38:21.520 It was tremendous rigging, even in the numbers.

00:38:25.080 In reality, our information, which is based on more than 1,200 reporters and more than 3,500 clips from polling stations throughout the country,

00:38:37.420 showed that less than 10 percent, and I repeat, less than 10 percent of the people took part in the election.

00:38:45.080 And as you said, it's not election.

00:38:46.520 It's rather a selection.

00:38:47.400 So it was a total defeat for the regime, and I think it was a very big victory, actually, for the Iranian people, politically and socially.

00:38:58.200 Now, this should not come, I would say, to a big surprise, because you have to remember, Iran has been the scene of three major nationwide uprisings in the last three years.

00:39:11.460 In December 2017, leading to January 2018, in November 2019, and in January 2020, and particularly November 2019, the protests almost, you know, involved almost 200 cities throughout the country in all 31 provinces.

00:39:29.240 And the people were chanting death to Ayatollah, death to Khamenei, and down to the dictator, and they were calling for regime change.

00:39:35.880 And the situation was so significant, and I think so fierce, that the regime had to use, you know, open fire in broad daylight against the protesters.

00:39:47.460 And in a very conservative estimate, more than 1,500 protesters were killed in a matter of a few days.

00:39:56.980 Now, think about it.

00:39:57.920 1,500 protesters were killed in a matter of a few days, not including thousands who were wounded, and not including 12,000 who were arrested.

00:40:06.460 And as I said, basically, the people shook the regime to its core, and almost, you know, pushed it over the cliff.

00:40:12.020 So, what you saw last Friday, was the other side of the coin of what we have been testing wrong in the last few years.

00:40:19.500 Iranian people want regime change.

00:40:21.660 They have had enough with this regime, and I think what happened last Friday was a good indication of where Iranians stand. 0.98

00:40:28.960 Let me ask you, though, Shaheen, if it really matters in the grand scheme of things, because Iranians can, as they did, not show up to vote. 0.97

00:40:37.720 But the result of this is still Raisi in power, and Raisi continuing along with what we've seen from the Iranian regime in the last few years.

00:40:46.180 I guess, to put a more positive spin on this question, how do people stay motivated that that form of dissent matters when the result is this man as president?

00:40:56.160 I think it's a very legitimate question.

00:40:59.980 You have to keep in mind that why the Supreme Leader Khamenei came to this point to put all this charade and all this, you know, gambit that he had pursued for three decades or so,

00:41:13.880 very much to the regime's interest of, you know, purporting some being, you know, reformists and moderates and, you know, you know, depicting as though there's a camp of moderates and reformers, and there are some hardliners.

00:41:24.480 That was the game that Khamenei basically pushed for three decades and ripped the benefits of it.

00:41:29.920 But what caused him to put this aside?

00:41:33.200 What caused him to put aside any even semblance of, you know, competition in this particular case?

00:41:40.060 Why he, as you said, from the very beginning was quite clear and evident that, you know, Khamenei wants to install his man in this position.

00:41:47.700 I think the answer is, again, what happened inside Iran.

00:41:52.240 Look, resorting to the old adage in politics that, you know, all politics is local.

00:41:57.600 For Khamenei, the main issue is the same power.

00:42:00.520 And his main enemy are not the Iranian people. 0.96

00:42:03.080 And they have shown the desire for change.

00:42:05.280 So his primary concern and the regime's primary concern is to prevent another uprising similar to what happened, as I said, 2019, 220, and 2018.

00:42:16.840 So that's why he brought Raisi to power with the price of actually purging even a very loyal section of his own regime,

00:42:25.760 which makes the regime much more fragile, much more susceptible to possible uprisings, which are, you know, being at works and are at the wings.

00:42:37.200 But he had no choice but.

00:42:39.120 So what I'm saying here is actually what happened is very significant, not because how Raisi was installed in this position,

00:42:49.040 but because why he was installed to this position, the dynamics that led to this point, I think the clear indicator is what to expect next.

00:42:58.120 Now, looking forward. 0.89

00:43:00.600 No doubt that Khamenei brought Raisi simply to kill more people. 0.80

00:43:05.880 Raisi's message is that, you know, no tolerance will be tolerated, no dissent will be tolerated, more bloodletting, iron fist, and more killing.

00:43:14.000 And so far as it pertains to Iran's foreign policy, you have to expect more emphasis on supporting, you know, terrorist groups, more support for Hezbollah,

00:43:23.580 more support for regimes, you know, militias, more emphasis on ballistic missiles, and actually more emphasis in secret program to acquire nuclear weapons.

00:43:35.040 But at the same time, I think the message to the world is that Iran is up for change by the wings. 0.82

00:43:40.920 So in that sense, I think what happens is very significant.

00:43:44.260 Let me ask you about the foreign policy aspect of this, because one of the things, and I've spoken about this with some of your colleagues in the past,

00:43:50.700 is that Iran has been very negatively affected by sanctions.

00:43:54.940 And this is why Iran has pretended to play nice with the West to get sanctions lifted through the nuclear deal and other forms of diplomacy.

00:44:03.340 But the reality is, Raisi has already said he has no interest in meeting with the United States.

00:44:09.980 He's taking a hardline view.

00:44:11.900 I guess, how can the regime survive if they retreat into that very hardline anti-Western approach that hasn't really worked for them all that well?

00:44:21.540 I think, again, it's a very, very important question, a very good one, actually.

00:44:27.980 The regime is caught in a rock and a hard place.

00:44:31.420 And that's, this is basically very much the paradox that Khamenei is facing.

00:44:39.580 On the one hand, he has no choice but to resort more to the regime's own recipe and, you know, old recipe of more repression and more, as I said, belligerence and more intransigence.

00:44:52.100 On the other hand, he needs to get the sanctions relieved, actually, in order to finance the regime's, you know, very much sinister and malign activities.

00:45:04.180 So that's where international community comes in, any notion that by providing concession to the regime, being nice to them, will lead them to reciprocate is total naivete.

00:45:16.940 I think bringing Raisi to power, a man who only a part of his resume is being directly involved in massacring 30,000 political prisoners just in summer of 1988.

00:45:30.280 I repeat the number, 30,000 political prisoners who are already serving the terms, according to the regime's own courts, were all brought to kangaroo trials, last from two minutes to five minutes, sent to the gallows simply because they were still adherent to their beliefs on supporting the Mujahideen, the People's Mujahideen Organization of Iran, or M.E.K.,

00:45:54.280 because, you know, they were the arch enemy of the regime, and they are the regime's main, you know, organized resistance, and the fatwa was basically to eliminate them.

00:46:04.820 Now, only a part of Raisi's resume is directly and personally, as a man of a four-man team of death committee in Tehran, sent thousands of prisoners to the gallows in Tehran,

00:46:17.120 not withstanding, as I said, this massacre in November 2019, that he again oversaw as the head of judiciary, judiciary chief, just this past November 2019.

00:46:29.480 So obviously, when you bring that kind of person to power, it means that you want to continue with the same path.

00:46:33.940 So I think if there was any justification to appease the mullahs with the hope that somehow, miraculously, somebody can pull, you know, rabbit out of the hat,

00:46:47.360 and you see moderates or reformists, non-existent as they are, ascend and take the upper hand, that's absolutely not the case anymore.

00:46:56.520 So they are nowhere to be found. Basically, they are no player. So the regime is showing his real face, his real nature to the wall.

00:47:07.720 So there is no grounds for any appeasing, providing concession. And I think, to our contrary, the least is expected from the West to hold the regime accountable,

00:47:21.100 hold them to account for all their crimes, in particular Raisi. And that's exactly what Amnesty International announced on the day that Raisi was selected.

00:47:31.360 They said, look, this man should not be the president. This man should be basically brought to justice.

00:47:36.780 Here in Canada, back in 2013, all members of parliament from every party voted to condemn the 88 massacre that you just spoke of.

00:47:49.280 And you know very well in politics, it's hard to find issues that everyone agrees on. So there was some unanimity there.

00:47:54.960 Now, I would take that now, eight years later, to say that there's already a record that governments,

00:48:00.940 foreign governments, cannot legitimize and recognize this man as a leader, that he has to be held to account.

00:48:07.380 But we've also seen a very concerning trend in the West of appeasing Iran and believing that they can be brought to the table.

00:48:14.560 And I'm curious if you think that the brutality in Raisi's history, and not far history, we're talking about very recently here,

00:48:22.820 do you think that can change this dynamic of appeasement from the West that we've often seen?

00:48:28.600 Because there's no way they can legitimize this man. Or is that being a little bit too optimistic on my part?

00:48:34.440 No, you're not too optimistic. I think this is the least the West should do.

00:48:38.420 Look, look at yesterday's press conference by Raisi, his first presser.

00:48:43.920 He said, not only condones what he did in 1988, he says he should be praised for it, and he should be re-voted for it.

00:48:53.400 Now, what does that mean? That means he wants to continue the same policy,

00:48:56.900 that he wants to do more executions. And at the same time, he was very much trying to evade his, you know, background and his record.

00:49:08.520 So the message to the international community, to the West in general, in Canada in particular, is very simple.

00:49:17.400 Hold them to account. Hold, you know, end the impunity.

00:49:20.820 And it's not too optimistic. This is just the minimum moral standards.

00:49:26.100 A man who has 30,000 executions under his watch.

00:49:30.380 How could anyone

00:49:31.480 take as a, you know, reasonable partner

00:49:35.340 or interlocutor?

00:49:38.200 And you have to remember, in 1988, people could claim they didn't know.

00:49:42.280 But they cannot make that claim in 2021.

00:49:44.920 People do know.

00:49:46.300 This is the world of, you know, communications is the time of, you know, Internet.

00:49:49.840 So the record is out there.

00:49:52.140 So people and I think it's very important that the Western countries realize that silence,

00:49:57.680 silence would only embolden Raisi and Khamenei to continue this path.

00:50:03.340 But at the same time, if they speak out, if they say, look, they don't recognize this selection.

00:50:09.320 They don't recognize this man as the president of a grand country like Iran.

00:50:12.580 I think the message will be well received with the mullahs and Raisi.

00:50:16.760 And you have to keep in mind, the regime is very weak.

00:50:20.300 The economy isn't very much in shambles.

00:50:24.080 So this regime is very much prone to pressure.

00:50:27.620 Very much in prone.

00:50:28.740 With the explosive society, with a bankrupt economy, with international isolation.

00:50:34.120 Obviously, Khamenei has to think not only twice, but three times and four times.

00:50:38.320 So what I'm saying is, the regime is very prone to international pressure.

00:50:42.660 And one does not need to be very optimistic.

00:50:44.720 All governments should do is to just hold the regime to account.

00:50:50.860 Shaheen Gobadi of the National Council of Resistance of Iran.

00:50:53.860 And I should say, coming up July 10th to 12th, the NCRI is hosting its Free Iran World Summit.

00:50:59.260 And we'll certainly have coverage of that on True North.

00:51:02.440 Shaheen, thank you so much for your time.

00:51:03.680 Good to speak with you.

00:51:04.320 Thank you, Andrew.

00:51:06.040 And I wish you and all your viewers and listeners a very good day.

00:51:09.560 Thank you for having me on.

00:51:12.160 Shaheen Gobadi of the NCRI.

00:51:14.540 And I should say, if you're interested in this, my colleague Candice Malcolm had a fantastic

00:51:18.980 column about this in the Toronto Sun.

00:51:21.520 Not just the issues that are facing the Iranian people, but also the Canadian connection.

00:51:26.780 Unpacking, because I hadn't heard of prior to reading her column, that 2013 vote in Parliament

00:51:32.040 to unanimously condemn, with all parties, this man's conduct, effectively.

00:51:37.120 And now he is representing Iran on the world stage.

00:51:40.800 My thanks to you all for tuning into the show.

00:51:43.000 We will be back in just a couple days' time with more of Canada's most irreverent talk show

00:51:47.480 here on True North.

00:51:48.760 This is the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:51:50.160 Thank you, God bless, and good day to you all.

00:51:52.080 Thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:51:54.380 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

00:51:59.600 True Northpero Nights.

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Juno News - June 24, 2021

Lockdown Stockholm Syndrome

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