00:38:00.660So let's talk first off about the low turnout here.
00:38:03.980Because when you don't have many options, pretty much the only thing you can do to express your displeasure is not show up.
00:38:10.820I think what happened in Iran was very significant.
00:38:15.660You have to keep in mind that the figure the regime announced was actually five-fold increase.
00:38:21.520It was tremendous rigging, even in the numbers.
00:38:25.080In reality, our information, which is based on more than 1,200 reporters and more than 3,500 clips from polling stations throughout the country,
00:38:37.420showed that less than 10 percent, and I repeat, less than 10 percent of the people took part in the election.
00:38:47.400So it was a total defeat for the regime, and I think it was a very big victory, actually, for the Iranian people, politically and socially.
00:38:58.200Now, this should not come, I would say, to a big surprise, because you have to remember, Iran has been the scene of three major nationwide uprisings in the last three years.
00:39:11.460In December 2017, leading to January 2018, in November 2019, and in January 2020, and particularly November 2019, the protests almost, you know, involved almost 200 cities throughout the country in all 31 provinces.
00:39:29.240And the people were chanting death to Ayatollah, death to Khamenei, and down to the dictator, and they were calling for regime change.
00:39:35.880And the situation was so significant, and I think so fierce, that the regime had to use, you know, open fire in broad daylight against the protesters.
00:39:47.460And in a very conservative estimate, more than 1,500 protesters were killed in a matter of a few days.
00:39:57.9201,500 protesters were killed in a matter of a few days, not including thousands who were wounded, and not including 12,000 who were arrested.
00:40:06.460And as I said, basically, the people shook the regime to its core, and almost, you know, pushed it over the cliff.
00:40:12.020So, what you saw last Friday, was the other side of the coin of what we have been testing wrong in the last few years.
00:40:21.660They have had enough with this regime, and I think what happened last Friday was a good indication of where Iranians stand.
00:40:28.960Let me ask you, though, Shaheen, if it really matters in the grand scheme of things, because Iranians can, as they did, not show up to vote.
00:40:37.720But the result of this is still Raisi in power, and Raisi continuing along with what we've seen from the Iranian regime in the last few years.
00:40:46.180I guess, to put a more positive spin on this question, how do people stay motivated that that form of dissent matters when the result is this man as president?
00:40:56.160I think it's a very legitimate question.
00:40:59.980You have to keep in mind that why the Supreme Leader Khamenei came to this point to put all this charade and all this, you know, gambit that he had pursued for three decades or so,
00:41:13.880very much to the regime's interest of, you know, purporting some being, you know, reformists and moderates and, you know, you know, depicting as though there's a camp of moderates and reformers, and there are some hardliners.
00:41:24.480That was the game that Khamenei basically pushed for three decades and ripped the benefits of it.
00:41:29.920But what caused him to put this aside?
00:41:33.200What caused him to put aside any even semblance of, you know, competition in this particular case?
00:41:40.060Why he, as you said, from the very beginning was quite clear and evident that, you know, Khamenei wants to install his man in this position.
00:41:47.700I think the answer is, again, what happened inside Iran.
00:41:52.240Look, resorting to the old adage in politics that, you know, all politics is local.
00:41:57.600For Khamenei, the main issue is the same power.
00:42:00.520And his main enemy are not the Iranian people.
00:42:03.080And they have shown the desire for change.
00:42:05.280So his primary concern and the regime's primary concern is to prevent another uprising similar to what happened, as I said, 2019, 220, and 2018.
00:42:16.840So that's why he brought Raisi to power with the price of actually purging even a very loyal section of his own regime,
00:42:25.760which makes the regime much more fragile, much more susceptible to possible uprisings, which are, you know, being at works and are at the wings.
00:42:39.120So what I'm saying here is actually what happened is very significant, not because how Raisi was installed in this position,
00:42:49.040but because why he was installed to this position, the dynamics that led to this point, I think the clear indicator is what to expect next.
00:43:00.600No doubt that Khamenei brought Raisi simply to kill more people.
00:43:05.880Raisi's message is that, you know, no tolerance will be tolerated, no dissent will be tolerated, more bloodletting, iron fist, and more killing.
00:43:14.000And so far as it pertains to Iran's foreign policy, you have to expect more emphasis on supporting, you know, terrorist groups, more support for Hezbollah,
00:43:23.580more support for regimes, you know, militias, more emphasis on ballistic missiles, and actually more emphasis in secret program to acquire nuclear weapons.
00:43:35.040But at the same time, I think the message to the world is that Iran is up for change by the wings.
00:43:40.920So in that sense, I think what happens is very significant.
00:43:44.260Let me ask you about the foreign policy aspect of this, because one of the things, and I've spoken about this with some of your colleagues in the past,
00:43:50.700is that Iran has been very negatively affected by sanctions.
00:43:54.940And this is why Iran has pretended to play nice with the West to get sanctions lifted through the nuclear deal and other forms of diplomacy.
00:44:03.340But the reality is, Raisi has already said he has no interest in meeting with the United States.
00:44:11.900I guess, how can the regime survive if they retreat into that very hardline anti-Western approach that hasn't really worked for them all that well?
00:44:21.540I think, again, it's a very, very important question, a very good one, actually.
00:44:27.980The regime is caught in a rock and a hard place.
00:44:31.420And that's, this is basically very much the paradox that Khamenei is facing.
00:44:39.580On the one hand, he has no choice but to resort more to the regime's own recipe and, you know, old recipe of more repression and more, as I said, belligerence and more intransigence.
00:44:52.100On the other hand, he needs to get the sanctions relieved, actually, in order to finance the regime's, you know, very much sinister and malign activities.
00:45:04.180So that's where international community comes in, any notion that by providing concession to the regime, being nice to them, will lead them to reciprocate is total naivete.
00:45:16.940I think bringing Raisi to power, a man who only a part of his resume is being directly involved in massacring 30,000 political prisoners just in summer of 1988.
00:45:30.280I repeat the number, 30,000 political prisoners who are already serving the terms, according to the regime's own courts, were all brought to kangaroo trials, last from two minutes to five minutes, sent to the gallows simply because they were still adherent to their beliefs on supporting the Mujahideen, the People's Mujahideen Organization of Iran, or M.E.K.,
00:45:54.280because, you know, they were the arch enemy of the regime, and they are the regime's main, you know, organized resistance, and the fatwa was basically to eliminate them.
00:46:04.820Now, only a part of Raisi's resume is directly and personally, as a man of a four-man team of death committee in Tehran, sent thousands of prisoners to the gallows in Tehran,
00:46:17.120not withstanding, as I said, this massacre in November 2019, that he again oversaw as the head of judiciary, judiciary chief, just this past November 2019.
00:46:29.480So obviously, when you bring that kind of person to power, it means that you want to continue with the same path.
00:46:33.940So I think if there was any justification to appease the mullahs with the hope that somehow, miraculously, somebody can pull, you know, rabbit out of the hat,
00:46:47.360and you see moderates or reformists, non-existent as they are, ascend and take the upper hand, that's absolutely not the case anymore.
00:46:56.520So they are nowhere to be found. Basically, they are no player. So the regime is showing his real face, his real nature to the wall.
00:47:07.720So there is no grounds for any appeasing, providing concession. And I think, to our contrary, the least is expected from the West to hold the regime accountable,
00:47:21.100hold them to account for all their crimes, in particular Raisi. And that's exactly what Amnesty International announced on the day that Raisi was selected.
00:47:31.360They said, look, this man should not be the president. This man should be basically brought to justice.
00:47:36.780Here in Canada, back in 2013, all members of parliament from every party voted to condemn the 88 massacre that you just spoke of.
00:47:49.280And you know very well in politics, it's hard to find issues that everyone agrees on. So there was some unanimity there.
00:47:54.960Now, I would take that now, eight years later, to say that there's already a record that governments,
00:48:00.940foreign governments, cannot legitimize and recognize this man as a leader, that he has to be held to account.
00:48:07.380But we've also seen a very concerning trend in the West of appeasing Iran and believing that they can be brought to the table.
00:48:14.560And I'm curious if you think that the brutality in Raisi's history, and not far history, we're talking about very recently here,
00:48:22.820do you think that can change this dynamic of appeasement from the West that we've often seen?
00:48:28.600Because there's no way they can legitimize this man. Or is that being a little bit too optimistic on my part?
00:48:34.440No, you're not too optimistic. I think this is the least the West should do.
00:48:38.420Look, look at yesterday's press conference by Raisi, his first presser.
00:48:43.920He said, not only condones what he did in 1988, he says he should be praised for it, and he should be re-voted for it.
00:48:53.400Now, what does that mean? That means he wants to continue the same policy,
00:48:56.900that he wants to do more executions. And at the same time, he was very much trying to evade his, you know, background and his record.
00:49:08.520So the message to the international community, to the West in general, in Canada in particular, is very simple.
00:49:17.400Hold them to account. Hold, you know, end the impunity.
00:49:20.820And it's not too optimistic. This is just the minimum moral standards.
00:49:26.100A man who has 30,000 executions under his watch.