Juno News - Looking back at the Freedom Convoy - Part 2 (ft. Benjamin Dichter)

00:00:00.000 It was shocking that they would go from trying to figure out who has to do what to implementing this for the for the Americans watching Canada's version of martial law for some parking infractions.

00:00:14.360 Our media is all fake PR press releases at this point, trying to promulgate this fiction and sell it to people like use your eyes and she'll show you the pictures and videos.

00:00:25.400 And luckily you were there and you witnessed it in in real time.

00:00:30.000 And I'm glad you were.

00:00:47.160 Like I said, I mean, I just didn't anticipate just how incredible it would be.

00:00:52.400 And I'm glad that I was there, you know, right place at the right time, to be honest with you.

00:00:56.840 And, you know, and it just so happened that I live blocks away from where it all went down.

00:01:02.100 So, OK, so when you were when you were living blocks away, I was sleeping in downtown Ottawa in the Sheridan Hotel.

00:01:10.520 You were sleeping in downtown Ottawa in the Sheridan Hotel.

00:01:14.580 The first night is when everybody was coming in the first couple of days.

00:01:17.960 So you would hear honking, you know, during the day, there was some honking at night closer to Parliament building, the Parliament buildings.

00:01:26.360 And then it trailed off by the time that the night that I broke my ankle.

00:01:30.440 I was in the middle of the street in front of the Ark Hotel, like in complete silence in the middle of a road that was completely empty, full of ice.

00:01:40.720 No honking, no people, no nothing.

00:01:44.220 Is that kind of the experience that you had?

00:01:46.560 Yeah, the first weekend, honestly, there was a lot of honking and I live in the Byward Market.

00:01:52.880 So the trucks were also parked on my street and on Rideau Street.

00:01:58.740 And so that first weekend, you know, I even just remember returning home after the press conference at the Swiss Hotel.

00:02:06.300 There was a lot of honking going on.

00:02:09.400 But but then that really lasted for like four or five days, maybe no more than that.

00:02:15.960 And then it stopped the rest of the time.

00:02:18.240 I couldn't hear anything.

00:02:19.440 The only time you heard honking was when you went to the heart of the protests right in front of Parliament Hill.

00:02:24.580 And you had these big groups.

00:02:25.880 Yeah, exactly.

00:02:27.620 And that's when, you know, they would just to get people, you know, motivated and inspired, the trucks would honk a bit.

00:02:36.800 But again, it would last for a couple of minutes and then stop.

00:02:40.840 And certainly it didn't go all the way into the night.

00:02:44.020 Now, people who live in Centertown, I know people who live right in Kent Street.

00:02:48.960 A good friend of mine who I don't think you've met him, but but, you know, he lives right on he and his wife live right in on Kent Street.

00:02:57.880 And in fact, he wrote this incredible piece on this was before even my story came out.

00:03:05.960 He just walked around Ottawa at night with the untouchables.

00:03:09.740 I don't know if you've read that.

00:03:10.700 It's a blog blog post that went viral shortly, you know, the first few days of the protests.

00:03:17.240 It's an incredible read.

00:03:18.660 And he just went there with an open mind.

00:03:21.880 The piece is by my friend David Mabry.

00:03:24.580 You should you should really read it.

00:03:25.720 You can send it to me, please.

00:03:27.040 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:03:27.680 Or post it in the show notes.

00:03:29.160 Yeah.

00:03:29.380 And I urge everybody listening to the podcast to actually read the piece.

00:03:33.240 And and he just, you know, what he did was what I did, which is just walk around and speak to people.

00:03:39.020 He spoke to some of the truckers.

00:03:41.080 And this was quite the opposite of what the mainstream media had been reporting.

00:03:45.840 So and and as far as the noise is concerned, I mean, he's told me many, many times, look, I live right here.

00:03:51.980 I mean, I see the trucks.

00:03:53.060 I saw the trucks parked right outside my building.

00:03:55.260 And it was nothing like what these people are describing.

00:03:57.680 Um, uh, but, you know, unfortunately, uh, people like that, uh, you know, we, the mainstream media just wasn't interested in reaching out to someone like that.

00:04:07.900 Right.

00:04:08.220 And that was unfortunate.

00:04:09.460 But, you know, I'm not I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

00:04:11.620 I mean, obviously, the first weekend, there was a lot of honking.

00:04:15.040 I lived in Mumbai for almost 10 years.

00:04:18.500 It's like Mumbai, right?

00:04:19.960 Yes, I literally tweeted that, um, um, you know, that first weekend.

00:04:25.360 And I said, this really does remind me of my time in that city, because every day was like this, like outside my street.

00:04:32.120 It was like this all the time, all the time.

00:04:34.920 So my tolerance for this kind of thing is pretty high.

00:04:38.080 And for me, it actually, like, made me feel at home in a sense, you know, I was like, wow.

00:04:42.940 And you know what?

00:04:43.620 It just goes to show.

00:04:45.320 And this is my why I get so angry with people on.

00:04:48.560 I don't know if it's I don't know if it's unique to any political side.

00:04:51.580 But how spoiled people are in this country that, oh, my God, somebody's honked for a couple of days.

00:04:59.680 You know what?

00:05:00.120 Grow up.

00:05:01.080 Because there are people who live in very difficult societies where like you live in Mexico City.

00:05:07.420 There's honking everywhere.

00:05:09.060 And you say something to the wrong person.

00:05:11.820 If they're a narco, you're dead or kidnapped. 0.94

00:05:14.360 So, you know, we're really kind of bourgeoisie. 0.99

00:05:17.220 It's these luxury beliefs that I can sit here and bitch and complain about honking. 1.00

00:05:23.140 And you know what? 0.80

00:05:24.020 If they don't do what I want, I'm going to use the legal system to destroy the lives of these people who many of them have already had their lives destroyed.

00:05:33.060 Yeah.

00:05:33.360 Yeah.

00:05:33.860 No, for sure.

00:05:35.540 And Ottawa, especially, I think, is a very spoiled city.

00:05:41.080 And obnoxiously spoiled.

00:05:42.440 Yeah, yeah.

00:05:43.500 And everybody has the sense of, you know, like they know what they're doing.

00:05:49.420 They're pretentious.

00:05:50.360 Most people here are pretentious, I would say.

00:05:52.420 But anyway, I don't want to.

00:05:54.800 You don't want to disparage Ottawa.

00:05:56.180 It's where you live.

00:05:57.300 You got to go get a coffee somewhere, right?

00:06:00.500 I love Ottawa.

00:06:03.480 But listen, I mean, you said that.

00:06:06.220 And I remember during that first press conference, I remember you saying, you know, let's, you know, I'm open to having a coffee with Jerry Butts.

00:06:13.820 You've been saying that from the get go.

00:06:15.640 What if, what if the prime minister actually walked among the people, walked, you know, went, had visited the protesters and spoke to them?

00:06:26.920 Would it have made a difference?

00:06:29.100 How, and let's say he did that and then said, look, I feel that these pandemic measures are extremely important.

00:06:35.580 I think they're helping us in the fight against COVID-19.

00:06:41.360 So they're going to stay here.

00:06:42.580 But I've heard you.

00:06:43.560 And maybe we can chalk out a plan and work things out over the course of the next few weeks.

00:06:50.000 What would the outcome have been if that had happened?

00:06:53.280 I mean, it's a hypothetical, obviously.

00:06:55.460 I don't know.

00:06:55.760 And there's so many hypotheticals in there.

00:06:58.060 I mean, we're making the assumption that the prime minister could do that on his own accord without just coming out and calling people names.

00:07:04.800 Because that's what he does.

00:07:06.300 Yeah.

00:07:07.460 But, I mean, I know if, you know, from years of life and business negotiation and getting, like when I was on a university campus, I wasn't exactly surrounded by conservatives.

00:07:19.760 But many of them were my friends.

00:07:21.740 I did business with them frequently.

00:07:23.620 I understand their worldview.

00:07:25.100 I disagree.

00:07:26.080 But I know how to communicate to them.

00:07:27.900 Right?

00:07:28.100 So I think that him coming out and being, I don't know, a leader and doing what politicians are supposed to do and talk to people probably would have been a good start.

00:07:44.040 Right?

00:07:44.280 It probably would have helped with a lot of the division that we have in the country right now.

00:07:50.080 And that's the problem.

00:07:51.100 They're all entitled.

00:07:52.160 It's they don't understand they are public servants.

00:07:57.240 They're the servants, not the other way around.

00:08:00.500 And if there was a little bit of humility amongst the political class, which is what that would require, which is why I could, I don't know that, I don't know, you hope that it would happen.

00:08:10.620 But he only does that amongst people he knows, apparently.

00:08:14.180 But if there was a little bit of humility to come out and say, you know, these, the measures are very important.

00:08:19.620 This is why.

00:08:20.780 But we can put together a plan and a timeline and whatever.

00:08:25.600 I know a lot of people would say, yeah, don't trust them or whatever.

00:08:28.140 Like, okay, but you got to give them the benefit of the doubt.

00:08:30.480 That's what negotiation is.

00:08:32.000 Everybody's got to compromise.

00:08:33.460 Right?

00:08:34.040 So, of course, they didn't come and talk.

00:08:36.560 And like, we had no roadmap.

00:08:38.440 We had nothing.

00:08:39.120 Everything was just going to get increasingly totalitarianism, totalitarian.

00:08:45.360 And there was no end in sight.

00:08:47.740 Like, you know, a little thing in psychology that you see that's playing out today in urban planning.

00:08:53.000 I saw this all the time when these studies were coming up.

00:08:55.680 When you're driving in your car, you're coming up to a light that's green.

00:09:00.200 It's going to be turning red.

00:09:02.280 What is very common in cities around the world?

00:09:05.220 They have counters.

00:09:06.380 And it shows, you know, 20 seconds left, 18 seconds, whatever.

00:09:10.260 The reason they do that is that reduces anxiety amongst drivers because they can better anticipate when they have to prepare.

00:09:19.040 Right?

00:09:19.880 That's all we wanted.

00:09:20.900 Some sort of anticipation of, okay, you've done this for two years.

00:09:24.520 You've destroyed Alberta's economy.

00:09:27.800 Hey, when's this going to stop?

00:09:29.360 Right?

00:09:29.700 How about giving us a timeline?

00:09:31.060 How about talking to us, doing something?

00:09:33.480 But they're so incompetent that they're dangerous because they didn't even have the skill set required to engage in a conversation with people who may disagree with them.

00:09:43.780 That's why I genuinely tried to communicate, come for coffee, not to be adversarial.

00:09:53.580 Just come.

00:09:54.420 We'll protect you from anybody who gets upset.

00:09:57.220 Just come talk to us.

00:09:59.160 That's what the country needs right now.

00:10:01.280 It needs right and left and progressive and conservative or liberal.

00:10:06.580 However, whatever labels you want to smack onto people, which I don't particularly like these labels, but we need to start to come together and talk.

00:10:14.200 We've just been through two years of decimating our economy and destroying people's lives.

00:10:19.160 Some of us need some help, and some of us who live in Ottawa can actually help them if you listen to them.

00:10:27.900 But the fact that they didn't even have the humility to listen made things so much worse, and I think that's why Justin Trudeau's reputation around the world is permanently damaged beyond repair.

00:10:40.620 Yeah, I mean, obviously one of the hypocrisies here from the prime minister is that there was a similar kind of protest that took place in India a year earlier.

00:10:53.140 And he, in fact, I mean, he did something that was incredibly, it backfired because the Indian government didn't take that, you know, didn't like that very much.

00:11:04.000 And he was basically telling the prime minister of India to dialogue with the protesters and that it was important in a democracy, the right to protest.

00:11:12.740 And the protests were actually very similar to the convoy protests because you had farmers, it was the farmers who were protesting against a very controversial agricultural bill.

00:11:25.380 And they brought in like tractors and trucks to the nation's capital and blocked highways and roads.

00:11:30.220 And Justin Trudeau weighed in and said that it was important for the Indian government to speak, to talk to the protesters and have a conversation with them.

00:11:40.760 But yet he didn't do that here.

00:11:43.320 Is that kind of sort of what you were, I mean, was that idealistic, you know, to expect Trudeau to actually engage with the protesters here in Ottawa,

00:11:58.300 given how, you know, given what we know about him, that he says one thing in one context and does something else that was, that's totally different.

00:12:06.800 I didn't imagine necessarily that he would come out and lead the conversation and reaching out to us.

00:12:12.140 But, you know, there's a communication structure in all political parties.

00:12:15.320 You know how it works.

00:12:16.300 I know how it works, you know, behind the scenes.

00:12:18.220 And, you know, I was talking to people within the Liberal Party who were fed up with him through a conduit.

00:12:27.080 There was 30 plus Liberal MPs that were trying to form a coalition to put forward a non-confidence vote.

00:12:34.520 This is the week leading up to when the police came in.

00:12:38.040 And I just, I always wonder, is that why he went, you know, DEFCON 5 Super Saiyan on all the protesters?

00:12:45.440 Because his own cabinet was turning on him and wanted an end to this and wanted to go back to being liberal.

00:12:52.520 And we're very worried about, you know, what the damage for Canada would be over the long term.

00:12:56.640 I don't know the answer.

00:12:58.260 But there's always these mechanisms and there's multiple people involved in communications in the political structure that could have reached out to us.

00:13:06.260 If he was a leader, if he had any strength, it would have started with him.

00:13:10.840 I know if I was in his position, I would have just walked out of the office and say, okay, let's talk.

00:13:15.140 That's it.

00:13:15.580 Because that's kind of, that's my tactic.

00:13:18.120 I'm very guerrilla.

00:13:19.040 But, okay, if he doesn't have the strength to do that, there's enough of a team around him to do it.

00:13:24.300 So I would have hoped that there would have been something, something from the government in the, you know, just remember, this is the same guy that during Black Lives Matter went out and then he kneeled down in front of Black Lives Matter like a slave. 0.57

00:13:39.700 So for them, it was okay.

00:13:41.820 But you have some middle class and working class people protested, which is unprecedented.

00:13:47.700 The only other time I've seen that was in Venezuela when I lived in Colombia during the years that Chavez was doing exactly to Venezuela what Trudeau is doing to Canada right now.

00:14:00.400 And it was just, it was, it's such a, such a shift from the behavior, the behavioral approach they took to, you know, their own base toward, as opposed to us, you know.

00:14:13.540 And also, you know, he came out since then for China.

00:14:19.340 And what does China has?

00:14:20.440 China has people honking in their cars to mimic the trucks in Canada.

00:14:25.560 Yet he seems to support honking all of a sudden.

00:14:29.100 Like, okay, it's just, it's wild.

00:14:32.240 It's absolutely wild.

00:14:33.620 Yeah.

00:14:33.800 You know, one of the, one of the fault lines that, that emerged during the public inquiry into the Emergencies Act was whether to make a deal with the authorities and leave town or just stick it out until the mandates were lifted.

00:14:52.400 I recall in my conversations with you that you were very much of the view that, you know, warmer weather was approaching, so you, so you ought to stay.

00:15:03.460 And my sense is also that many devoted supporters of the protests were unhappy at the prospect of leaving while the federal vaccine mandates were still in place.

00:15:12.000 But in retrospect, given how brutally the government suppressed the protests, do you think that was the right thinking?

00:15:20.320 Would it have made sense to make a deal and avert the use of emergency powers, which is, in fact, what ended up happening?

00:15:29.460 Well, so a couple of things.

00:15:30.860 We've seen a little bit of revisionist history by a small group of people trying to say that, oh, you know, there was people communicating a deal.

00:15:39.260 Yeah, there's people linked to Doug Ford's office trying to do a deal on the side, had nothing to do with us, which was the whole point of my testimony, right?

00:15:47.160 Nobody wanted to leave.

00:15:48.740 The truckers were there.

00:15:49.860 You know how many truckers said, I'm not leaving.

00:15:52.020 They can take me out, my dead body out of here.

00:15:55.760 I'm not leaving till I get my freedom back.

00:15:58.000 And truckers are strong people.

00:16:00.280 That's why, you know, I was so concerned with making sure the messaging is positive.

00:16:06.720 Because these are people who do not take, you know, to take well to authoritarianism that's illegitimate.

00:16:15.020 They really don't.

00:16:16.500 So they weren't going to leave.

00:16:17.680 They weren't going to leave.

00:16:18.760 I think the idea to stay longer, although it was, I mean, it's sort of heartbreaking.

00:16:25.280 I met with Candice Saro last week, the woman who was trampled, the woman in the walker who was trampled by the horses, who, by the way, had her bank accounts frozen.

00:16:34.000 Did you know that?

00:16:35.740 What did she do? 0.80

00:16:36.520 She was under a horse, yet she had her bank accounts frozen.

00:16:39.980 That's insane.

00:16:41.240 Yeah.

00:16:41.780 So, you know, the whole decision, was it better to stay or leave?

00:16:45.860 Yeah, it was better to stay because look what the government has done to themselves. 0.70

00:16:50.700 They're now completely illegitimate on the world stage.

00:16:53.980 You know, and I explain in my book, this book, Honking for Freedom, that on the 18th of February, when we decided to leave, it was because the police got violent the night before and drew guns on somebody and smashed his windows in on his truck and pulled him out and arrested him.

00:17:12.320 And the road captains came in to me the next morning.

00:17:16.400 Tamara was in jail. 0.77

00:17:17.940 Chris was in jail because both of them were on the street.

00:17:20.000 They were picked up.

00:17:21.240 They're trying to pick up leadership.

00:17:22.400 I couldn't go out because I was in a wheelchair.

00:17:25.140 So I was kind of stuck in my hotel.

00:17:28.080 And so because they knew me and Tamara were talking many, many times frequently throughout the entire protest, I guess it was just a natural, OK, well, let's go see Ben and talk to him, tell him what's happening.

00:17:39.220 And when they told me that the truckers are that this what happened, the trucker and the police are getting violent.

00:17:45.660 And I said, OK, well, listen, I'll do what you want.

00:17:50.180 Like, I'll support you.

00:17:51.040 You want to leave?

00:17:52.220 Then I'll put out a messaging that we got to leave.

00:17:55.340 But and one of them, you know, I think it was Miranda said, do you think we should leave?

00:17:58.860 And everybody started talking.

00:17:59.860 They said, yeah, we should.

00:18:00.720 And there's Bridget was the first one who said, yeah, it's time to leave.

00:18:03.740 And then Joe said the same thing.

00:18:05.660 And Miranda and all these are all the road captains.

00:18:07.920 They're all on my bed and on the chairs and by the window.

00:18:11.720 And I said, OK, so if we're going to leave, I'll put out a message.

00:18:15.820 Call your liaison officers for those who have them.

00:18:18.800 Reach out to the truckers, tell them and whatever.

00:18:21.900 And that's when Miranda interrupted me. 1.00

00:18:23.720 And she said, you know, but Ben, Ben, many of these truckers aren't going to want to leave.

00:18:28.360 And I told her, well, you're a leader.

00:18:30.000 That's why you need to persuade them and convince them that we've won.

00:18:34.140 That they're getting violent.

00:18:35.660 They've destroyed their reputation.

00:18:37.260 We've done our job.

00:18:38.400 The provincial mandates have all but gone.

00:18:40.820 I think B.C. was the only one left that was going to be removing the mask mandates.

00:18:45.940 We've won on a multitude of political battlefields.

00:18:51.040 The only one we haven't won is on the federal level.

00:18:54.380 But let's give it time and maybe we will.

00:18:57.460 So that's when they decided, OK, let's all leave.

00:18:59.540 And everybody started to scramble to try to get out of there

00:19:01.880 and get as many trucks on the road and everybody to safety as possible.

00:19:06.680 And that's when the police just doubled down and seemed to rush in to try to mass arrest as many people as possible.

00:19:14.340 It is what it is.

00:19:15.560 But we exposed what they exposed their mindset and how they see themselves as the authoritarians that they are,

00:19:23.860 that they think we are their slaves, that we will do what we're told.

00:19:28.280 And that's not a very popular political approach in the Western world.

00:19:33.680 So I think I think it was both good and bad.

00:19:37.000 Yeah.

00:19:37.260 No, I remember this.

00:19:38.840 I was actually kind of funny when all of this was happening.

00:19:41.700 I think it was you and you were saying, well, so we managed to get slowly to resign.

00:19:47.720 We've kicked Aaron O'Toole out of the conservative.

00:19:51.100 He's no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

00:19:53.820 Diane Deans was thrown off the police services board.

00:19:56.380 Yeah. And I think you were like, who's next?

00:20:00.600 That's right.

00:20:02.720 And but that's the thing, right?

00:20:05.260 I mean, you guys did have an impact, unfortunately, not on the federal vaccine mandate.

00:20:10.460 But you at least got people talking about it.

00:20:12.940 I think that was very, very important.

00:20:15.300 There were some polls that came out during the protests, which were kind of like, you know,

00:20:19.680 I think I think it's important to have these conversations about these mandates.

00:20:23.820 You know, have they done more harm than good?

00:20:25.400 And at least you've got people talking.

00:20:27.960 But there's no question in my mind that the protests actually, you know, no government

00:20:33.120 is going to, you know, you know, give you credit for it.

00:20:38.760 And, you know, and one more asterisk to what I think made it even worse for them on

00:20:43.600 their side is people connected to the Liberal Party.

00:20:47.380 We know exactly how they are connected to the Liberal Party launched this class action

00:20:53.400 lawfare harassment suit against us, which has not yet been certified, which is now up to

00:20:58.920 $450 million.

00:21:00.040 So what do you want?

00:21:01.600 You want us to come and hang out and, oh, here's a $400 million lawsuit.

00:21:07.040 Okay, well, now we're going to stay, right?

00:21:09.380 Like, you want us to leave?

00:21:11.060 Now we're definitely not leaving.

00:21:13.080 You know what I mean? 1.00

00:21:13.780 Like every stupid decision they could make, they made. 1.00

00:21:17.060 Every possible one. 1.00

00:21:18.060 Right.

00:21:19.980 Yeah. 1.00

00:21:20.700 Well, speaking of stupid decisions, the pandemic restrictions, such as lockdowns and vaccine 0.99

00:21:30.560 mandates, do you think that these are, this crazy stuff is finally behind us? 0.99

00:21:37.200 Because we now know what's been happening in China.

00:21:39.960 I'm already like seeing tweets from the usual suspects saying that because of the high case

00:21:44.580 count in China, we should do something.

00:21:48.700 And obviously, common sense tells us, you know, it was because of their zero COVID policy.

00:21:53.160 So no one has immunity.

00:21:55.500 But, you know, I get the sense that our fear-mongering experts would like some mandates to be brought

00:22:02.700 back.

00:22:03.180 What's your sense of this?

00:22:04.080 Do you think the Canadian public is now so fed up with restrictions that it would be political

00:22:08.860 suicide for any government to reintroduce them?

00:22:11.100 I think this is, and this may be an odd way of looking at it.

00:22:16.020 I think this is when you're going to see the power and the importance of what Elon Musk

00:22:19.500 has just done.

00:22:20.780 Because you know, as well as I do, the political class and the media class were obsessed with

00:22:26.860 deferring their decisions and seeing how the sentiments of the political, of the general

00:22:32.600 public utilizing Twitter.

00:22:34.520 That's what's, that's what dictating so much of our media and our, our public discourse right

00:22:40.480 now.

00:22:40.940 And one of the things Elon has done already in the short time that he's been there, he's

00:22:45.400 been purging so many of the bots.

00:22:48.100 And maybe because I have a little bit of a knowledge of programming and background, like

00:22:52.720 I can see the bots when they were popping up.

00:22:54.840 That's why when, you know, they were attacking Tamara's account or my account, I could tell

00:22:59.280 because there's unique identifiers from a burner and bot account.

00:23:02.660 And I think the fact that he's quashed a large part of that on the Twitter platform and will

00:23:08.620 continue to do so.

00:23:10.500 Yes.

00:23:10.680 There's only 300 million people on Twitter, but the people who are there matter because

00:23:15.380 they're connected to media and politics and they're not going to have the same leverage

00:23:20.040 and power that they had leading into these lockdowns.

00:23:23.780 That's why you're seeing so many people came back on.

00:23:26.460 And now there's, there's actually pushback against that sort of narrative on that platform

00:23:32.000 that didn't exist in the past.

00:23:33.740 And something else I remember many years ago that stuck in the back of my head, apparently

00:23:38.320 everything you tweet on Twitter gets saved in the library of Congress in the United States.

00:23:45.980 I'm not sure why.

00:23:47.140 I'm not sure the relevancy, why that deal was made, but there is some political significance

00:23:52.260 to that platform that is hugely significant.

00:23:55.480 So the fact that we're all able now to push back and say, no, I think it's going to be a

00:24:00.920 lot more difficult to infuse narrative poisoning amongst people to say that these are all the

00:24:09.520 numbers. 0.97

00:24:10.360 And if you talk about it, then you're a racist and a bigot and a white supremacist and do as 0.99

00:24:16.140 we say, or else sort of thing. 0.91

00:24:19.080 I think that period has gone in terms of our digital communication structure.

00:24:23.840 So it's going to be very difficult for the political class to sell this again, especially

00:24:29.780 now that there's people like I have friends who are liberals who were not supportive of

00:24:34.660 the convoy, didn't talk to me during that period, not liberal party people, but just more

00:24:39.420 liberal minded people.

00:24:41.640 And you know what they're doing now?

00:24:42.880 They're reading this book and they're reading all the positive stories in this book that

00:24:47.720 it's not all negative.

00:24:48.600 It's all, all of us coming together and it's helping to wake people up to realize, you know

00:24:54.180 what?

00:24:54.880 Yeah.

00:24:55.380 Maybe this whole, maybe there, maybe I think people who are against the COVID vaccine are

00:25:00.640 crazy, but you know what?

00:25:02.440 That's their business. 0.94

00:25:03.220 They can, you do you, I do me.

00:25:05.600 And if we do that, we'll get along better in the future.

00:25:09.200 And I think, I think that's, what's going to change things.

00:25:11.820 I think the political class and the media class just took a major swipe in the amount

00:25:18.240 of influence they have by having that platform being taken away from them.

00:25:22.280 Yeah.

00:25:23.120 Well, let's turn to the public hearings, inquiring into the emergencies act.

00:25:31.800 What do you think you learned from the hearings?

00:25:34.340 You, you were, you testified and, and I also think, happen to think that Trudeau performed

00:25:42.000 extremely well on the last day of the hearings.

00:25:44.660 Um, and, um, you know, he was obviously well-rehearsed and well-briefed, um, but what did you think

00:25:50.980 ultimately, and if you were a betting man, uh, what do you think Justice Rouleau is likely

00:25:55.380 to decide?

00:25:57.560 I think, you know, from my perspective, Justin, Justice Rouleau was the first person to preside

00:26:05.120 over a commission under this legislation.

00:26:07.720 And I think that's why he was granting a lot of leeway.

00:26:10.800 Um, in my case, I had to submit a late application for standing because I wasn't told by certain

00:26:17.300 people about the whole process and that late application was denied and boy, it would have

00:26:23.340 been much worse.

00:26:24.200 If I had my lawyer able to cross-examine people, it would have been a lot different because

00:26:28.400 I wasn't, I wasn't towing any political party narrative there, which is why my people are

00:26:33.400 attacking me because my perspective was what I experienced in the truth.

00:26:38.420 Okay, fine.

00:26:39.000 But other than the fact that Justice Rouleau denied my late application for standing, and

00:26:44.520 he wouldn't know, uh, and there were 20, uh, groups with standing and supposedly only one

00:26:51.700 of the 20 was not representing the government, although that's disputed because some were

00:26:56.740 the government, Saskatchewan and whatever.

00:26:59.780 Um, I think the first thing is I see from people on the conservative side that, well, Justice Rouleau,

00:27:04.860 uh, was a liberal.

00:27:06.720 He donated to the liberals, was appointed by the liberals.

00:27:10.380 And I said, my response to that is yes, but all points in life are nuanced.

00:27:15.460 Things aren't so binary.

00:27:16.540 He was appointed by Paul Martin.

00:27:18.660 And I know from my communications during the convoy, there's a significant, uh, amount of

00:27:25.000 friction between the Trudeau liberals and the, the Paul Martin, Chrétien type liberals.

00:27:31.320 They don't like each other at all, especially with what's gone on.

00:27:35.620 Um, so, and the second thing is Justice Rouleau is, I believe is on the court of appeals.

00:27:41.560 So he's in, he's highly regarded.

00:27:44.040 He's at the tail end of his career and he has a commission named after him.

00:27:50.140 So this is going to be his legacy.

00:27:52.040 So to those, those of us in the analog world, okay, it's no big deal.

00:27:56.360 But if you're in the legal world, this is as prestigious as they come.

00:28:00.780 Um, and I don't think that Justice Rouleau is going to, uh, sacrifice his legacy just

00:28:09.360 to protect, uh, a political party that that's only current.

00:28:14.360 Now there will be a time where we're beyond Justin Trudeau and we will all laugh at him.

00:28:19.000 I don't think he's going to stake his reputation on it.

00:28:22.060 I think that's also why he granted, uh, leeway.

00:28:25.140 I think he was very fair.

00:28:26.400 He allowed me to get my, um, uh, my counsel, Jim, uh, Karahalios to, uh, lead some questions.

00:28:35.240 We found a little loophole.

00:28:36.740 Thank God to Jim's attention to detail, found a little loophole that I could get a few minutes

00:28:41.520 of leading questions from my counsel and Justice Rouleau, you know, to his credit, he said,

00:28:46.620 well, yeah, that's the rule.

00:28:48.160 I'm not going to be the bad guy here.

00:28:50.060 I'm going to let people talk as much as I think is, is necessary.

00:28:53.660 Now, what's the outcome of the report going to be?

00:28:56.640 I think it's going to be what we all see in Canadian government throughout our history.

00:29:00.240 It's going to be truckers, bad government, bad, uh, don't do it again.

00:29:05.840 Here's recommendations to the legislation and we move on.

00:29:09.660 I think, you know, people are saying, well, is there going to be any negative repercussions

00:29:13.520 to the government and Justin Trudeau?

00:29:16.680 And I think there might be one scenario where that happens.

00:29:21.040 If Justice Rouleau comes forward and puts in his report that Justin Trudeau went well

00:29:30.740 beyond, um, what was legally, like he didn't meet the test for the Emergency Measures Act

00:29:38.040 and the CBC is forced to report that, that Justin Trudeau, uh, took this authoritarian,

00:29:46.540 they won't use that word, but you know, if they have to paint Justin Trudeau in a negative light,

00:29:51.740 I think you're going to see the NDP bounce.

00:29:54.820 And I think you're going to see the NDP see, you see, he says he's a real progressive.

00:29:59.820 He's not a real progressive.

00:30:01.340 He broke the law.

00:30:03.240 He did what his father did, you know, cause a lot of people on the left that would, did

00:30:07.000 not support Pierre Trudeau with the FLQ.

00:30:09.940 They'll say, he's not a real progressive.

00:30:12.760 Come back to the NDP.

00:30:14.880 Let's build a real progressive party.

00:30:17.180 And I think that will be the end of Trudeau's career.

00:30:21.160 Interesting.

00:30:21.540 Interesting analysis.

00:30:22.460 Um, so, you know, I'm, I'm, I don't know if you've heard rumors that the protesters might

00:30:29.540 return to Ottawa in the new year.

00:30:32.060 Uh, and, uh, you know, I suspect the authorities will be better prepared this time.

00:30:37.220 Um, and, uh, do you think that, um, you know, given that many of these restrictions are mostly

00:30:44.420 gone at this point, does it make sense to return to Ottawa and risk another confrontation

00:30:49.160 with the authorities, um, haven't, haven't some of these, haven't, haven't these goals

00:30:54.240 already been accomplished in a sense?

00:30:57.160 Well, that's my argument.

00:30:57.900 What are you processing?

00:30:58.840 You don't like Trudeau?

00:31:00.040 Okay.

00:31:00.360 Well, you're going to have an election probably in the spring anyways.

00:31:03.440 Okay.

00:31:04.000 And, uh, so, I mean, I called, I thought there would be an election before the end of the

00:31:08.000 year.

00:31:08.240 I put on my sub stack, bjdictor.substack.com by the way.

00:31:11.980 Um, so, okay, maybe I'm off by a season, but I think we're going to have an election in

00:31:17.300 the spring.

00:31:17.740 The problem, one of the problems we had, one of the many problems we had in Ottawa, and

00:31:21.900 there was constant problems.

00:31:22.940 Like when you mentioned that piece, I'm still catching up on YouTube videos covering the

00:31:27.620 convoy.

00:31:28.100 I did not have a spare second to my life during this.

00:31:32.480 Uh, there was no shortage of egos there.

00:31:34.640 And there was no shortage of people who just wanted to be famous or people who wanted, uh,

00:31:40.280 access to millions of dollars.

00:31:41.860 That was, it was not ours.

00:31:43.440 It's for the convoy and all the convoys expenses and all that sort of stuff.

00:31:47.740 Um, and I think that's what you're seeing and you're seeing part of that is, you know,

00:31:52.540 people want to, uh, people want to relive the experience, I think is what is another big

00:31:58.360 thing that this was a momentous occasion in Canadian history.

00:32:01.940 I often call it, uh, Canada's Woodstock, um, Woodstock events and you're just not going

00:32:09.200 to relive it.

00:32:09.700 Uh, the best way to relive it is read about it and share it, share it with your friends

00:32:16.200 who are liberal and get them to open their minds, you know?

00:32:19.640 Yeah, absolutely.

00:32:20.940 Actually, uh, before I forget, Justin Trudeau's half brother, Kyle Kemper, I don't know if

00:32:25.420 you know him.

00:32:26.280 I spoke to him yesterday.

00:32:27.460 Oh, okay.

00:32:28.060 So he calls it the, he calls it the freezing man.

00:32:33.860 Yeah, he's, um, he's, uh, he told me something yesterday that I can't share that I'll share

00:32:39.460 with you off camera.

00:32:41.040 You'll find it very funny.

00:32:42.340 Okay.

00:32:42.900 Well, I'm looking forward to that.

00:32:44.240 Um, anyway, so, um, the, the big question is, uh, I mean, uh, so, I mean, you obviously

00:32:51.040 are not going to stay involved with these protests that are potentially happening in the

00:32:55.500 new year.

00:32:56.280 Um, but, uh, but, uh, you know, but at a more personal level, do you plan on staying involved

00:33:01.480 with the larger movement of freedom and pushing for freedom?

00:33:07.800 Yeah.

00:33:08.320 I think obviously, yes, to a point.

00:33:10.900 We, um, uh, you know, like I was told when I was, I was told to leave the hotel room that

00:33:16.100 somebody needs to be able to speak up for freedom.

00:33:18.960 And, uh, I'm, I'm very well known in the Bitcoin community as well.

00:33:22.880 Um, not just, I mean, primarily because of the freedom convoy, but I've been involved with

00:33:26.960 it for, for many, many years.

00:33:29.180 So, um, in terms of the first thing in, in, with regards to what's happening in the new

00:33:34.000 year, what I would encourage, what I would encourage people to do is if you're in a rural

00:33:40.480 town, a rural community, and you want to commemorate the freedom convoy.

00:33:44.720 I think the best message is to celebrate what Trudeau did on Valentine's day, that Valentine's

00:33:53.560 day becomes the, the day of love and the day of revival of Canada.

00:33:57.880 The day that Justin Trudeau went full authoritarian, froze our bank accounts without due process.

00:34:04.760 And we stuck together and we focused on love and we're still supporting each other.

00:34:09.500 And we're still trying to put that movement forward because that will become the identity

00:34:14.180 for Canada.

00:34:15.220 What better way?

00:34:16.000 Imagine you're a, you're, I don't know, 19, 18 years old.

00:34:20.280 And you live in at a campus casing or a smaller city or a really, and you have a town fair

00:34:27.000 and you're going to go out with a date and you're going to go out somewhere to, for Valentine's

00:34:32.820 day, let's go to the, the freedom convoy commemorative event where there's a bunch of trucks and barbecues

00:34:39.540 and people dancing and hanging around together.

00:34:42.320 That's what we need to be doing across Canada.

00:34:44.340 We need to be getting together in our communities and celebrating, loving each other on Valentine's

00:34:49.380 Day and we stuck together and we loved each other throughout the convoy, despite what

00:34:56.120 the government did on February 14th.

00:34:58.900 In terms of myself, I mean, I, unfortunately I have no choice.

00:35:02.720 We have this class action suit that has not been yet been certified.

00:35:06.980 There's a lot of legal games going on behind the scenes with many different entities.

00:35:12.060 And I can't walk away from that.

00:35:13.840 I wish I could listen, if that was gone and I could just get in my truck and just continue

00:35:17.960 on my life.

00:35:18.680 Great.

00:35:19.080 I would gladly do that.

00:35:20.440 But unfortunately they're forcing me into, into a position where I have to keep, you know,

00:35:25.380 opening up, opening up my big mouth because they, they're not stopping.

00:35:29.780 They're, they're continuing to try to oppress us, utilizing the legal system.

00:35:35.060 So because of that, I'm not going anywhere.

00:35:36.920 And the next step was to release this book honkingforfreedom.com.

00:35:42.340 And what I do like about it is I know we're going to talk about it before we go, but you

00:35:46.900 know, when Jordan Peterson wrote the endorsement for the back of the book and he refers to

00:35:52.760 it by, he says, quote, uh, the, by then he says, uh, the, I'll read it for you.

00:35:59.560 It says the Canadian trucker protest in Ottawa attracted tremendous national and international

00:36:04.280 attention and was simultaneously demonized by the then Canadian prime minister, Justin

00:36:10.660 Trudeau.

00:36:11.400 And I think that's a very important thing to remember.

00:36:13.760 And I mentioned that to Jordan, we were talking, I said, I want this to be an archive for the

00:36:18.920 future, for when people want to know what happened during this period, that they'll get

00:36:23.380 as factual a story as possible here.

00:36:26.400 And, uh, I love when he said, the then prime minister, Justin Trudeau.

00:36:31.920 And that's a sign of hope that we're going to get beyond, uh, the blackface era of Canadian 0.97

00:36:36.960 politics.

00:36:37.940 Well, on that, uh, hopeful note and, uh, you know, I, and, and, you know, with, uh, Jordan

00:36:44.260 Peterson as our ending, I would, uh, I'd like to thank you for, um, coming on my show, uh, Ben,

00:36:50.340 and it's been a real pleasure.

00:36:51.620 Um, I'm, um, so glad I, uh, was invited to that, uh, first press conference, um, because

00:36:58.400 that really, uh, helped me see, uh, the protests, um, you know, for what, you know, what, what

00:37:05.080 it ended up being.

00:37:06.260 And, uh, so our, you know, I'm so glad that we were able to do this.

00:37:09.920 It was long overdue and I hope we can have you back.

00:37:12.580 I have about another 50 questions or so to ask you, but, but, you know, I, we're running

00:37:18.360 out of time and, and I need to run a few errands before this big storm descends on us

00:37:22.780 in a, in a couple of hours.

00:37:24.060 The third snowmageddon of the year.

00:37:25.740 The first two days I was in the truck, none of them happened.

00:37:28.880 And, uh, we'll see what happens this time.

00:37:30.800 And I just want to say, you know, Rupa, uh, we are all of us in the, the convoy.

00:37:35.780 We are in your debt because, uh, you and the others who came, Andrew Lawton was there for

00:37:41.020 that press conference as well as a couple of people from Epoch times, post-millennial,

00:37:45.840 whatever.

00:37:46.700 But, you know, you went out of your way to go to bat for the truth.

00:37:51.420 I don't think you were going to bat for us.

00:37:53.200 You're going to bat for the truth.

00:37:55.240 And, you know, you penned that article to throw, put out in the national post to show

00:38:00.220 people, no, this is what's actually happening.

00:38:02.900 And that was also a major contribution for us that thank God, this, my idea of, I need to

00:38:10.280 get somebody in the legacy media who's honest and boy, did you come through for us.

00:38:15.480 And I thank you so much for that.

00:38:17.060 Oh, no, it was, um, I, you know, I, I couldn't, you know, I had to do this.

00:38:22.520 I had to speak the truth.

00:38:23.700 You know, I didn't have a narrative that I was trying to promote.

00:38:26.340 Uh, uh, and like so many, unfortunately, and like so many people out there, um, that the

00:38:32.140 only thing I was seeking was the truth.

00:38:33.600 And I saw, and I wrote what I saw and I, I was happy to do that, uh, at, uh, for Barry

00:38:39.500 Wise's common sense.

00:38:40.680 Well, it was common set that sense at that point, it's now the free press.

00:38:44.060 Uh, and yeah, it was just, uh, extraordinary.

00:38:46.720 Like I said, it was an incredible moment in my life.

00:38:48.900 It's really changed my life and it has changed many people's lives.

00:38:52.440 And, uh, thank you for bringing that message of hope, love and peace and unity to the nation's

00:38:58.680 capital.

00:38:59.280 And, uh, and I really hope we start on that note going into 2023.

00:39:03.880 And I want to wish you a happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, and a happy new year.

00:39:08.440 And, uh, that I'll, uh, we'll, we'll see each other soon.

00:39:12.540 You as well.

00:39:13.440 And I, I, I tell people many times on my daily streams, uh, me and professor Stephen Hicks

00:39:18.860 talked about it a couple of weeks, a couple of years ago when we started that I think

00:39:23.300 we're going to be heading into this, um, this era, the enlightenment 2.0.

00:39:28.740 Uh, I really do think we're going there.

00:39:31.120 This has been some of the bumps in the road, but before you have massive positive change

00:39:35.700 in society, things got to get really bad.

00:39:38.720 And I think they have, and I think there might be still some bumps in the road for the next

00:39:43.080 couple of years.

00:39:44.540 But I think at the end of the, I see the light at the end of the tunnel, things are going

00:39:48.100 to get so much better.

00:39:49.380 I hope so.

00:39:51.080 Fingers crossed.

00:39:52.500 Yeah.

00:39:53.140 Okay.

00:39:53.460 All right.

00:39:53.960 Okay.

00:39:54.400 Well, take care, Ben, and I will see you soon.

00:39:58.740 Bye.

Juno News - January 05, 2023

Looking back at the Freedom Convoy - Part 2 (ft. Benjamin Dichter)

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