Juno News - Mark Carney immediately backs down on ＂Elbows Up＂ approach with Trump

00:00:00.000 Well, I don't know about you guys, but can you believe that the election was less than two weeks ago?

00:00:05.360 To me, it feels like it was another lifetime ago already.

00:00:09.020 It's funny how things feel so different.

00:00:11.880 Or is that just me?

00:00:13.480 No, it's not just you.

00:00:14.480 Like, time warps during election season.

00:00:16.520 It's like the election period felt like long as hell, even though it was only a month.

00:00:20.420 And then now it's like time is trying to reset to its normal state.

00:00:26.540 I, too, feel like it was months ago, William.

00:00:28.700 Although, in a bit, paradoxically, I feel like I'm still recovering from it.

00:00:34.600 Well, that could last months, I think, for anybody who was super focused on it.

00:00:38.780 But I don't know.

00:00:40.360 I'm sure that it's something everybody feels, an election hangover.

00:00:45.640 And equally, it was yesterday and it was a year ago.

00:00:48.840 But all right.

00:00:49.660 Well, let's get started.

00:00:56.200 Well, hello, everybody.

00:00:57.140 My name is William Macbeth with True North, and I'm joined by my colleagues Isaac and Noah.

00:01:03.780 And we're grateful to have you here with us as we resume off the record after an election pause.

00:01:08.860 And you would think after a campaign there wouldn't be much news.

00:01:12.440 But the reality is there's nothing but news happening.

00:01:15.280 And some of it is pretty funny.

00:01:17.440 Some of it's a little disappointing.

00:01:19.480 And some of it just makes you scratch your head and wonder what our elected officials are getting up to.

00:01:24.540 So I think we're going to start off first with the big news of the week.

00:01:29.100 Prime Minister Mark Carney, re-elected Prime Minister Mark Carney, went to Washington.

00:01:35.440 And he met with Mr. Trump.

00:01:37.980 So, Noah, why don't you tell us how that went?

00:01:41.680 Yeah.

00:01:42.000 So a few days ago, we learned that Prime Minister Carney had a talk with Trump and that they scheduled this meeting for Carney to go to the White House.

00:01:51.860 And I would say that it wasn't very exciting.

00:01:56.600 Carney just shook Trump's hand.

00:01:59.400 They exchanged some compliments.

00:02:00.600 And the status quo really prevailed in this meeting.

00:02:05.040 It's not like there was any big commitments from either leader to change their policy.

00:02:10.720 But if you just watch the legacy media television and you read the newspapers or went on their websites,

00:02:17.800 you would think that, you know, Carney and Trump, you know, solved world peace or something.

00:02:22.520 That, you know, they came together and they just, you know, made Canada, the United States, the relations all mended up.

00:02:29.880 Even though Trump did not back down on any of his tariffs on Canada.

00:02:34.780 And Trump, you know, still repeated the same 51st state rhetoric.

00:02:38.420 But the legacy media, they really honed in on the two and a half to three minutes that Mark Carney got to talk in this 30 minute media availability where Carney basically said what he was saying on the campaign trail for months now that Canada will never be a 51st state.

00:02:54.900 But, you know, Carney, I guess, saying it to Trump's face, you know, really changed the entire dynamic of Canada-U.S. relations.

00:03:02.800 How did you guys feel about the meeting between Carney and Trump, guys?

00:03:06.660 Yeah, no, I'm surprised you said Carney even got two minutes.

00:03:10.940 I thought it was more like 30 seconds of the 30 minutes.

00:03:14.020 But, you know, what I found so compelling with their meeting was just analyzing the different viewpoints on X, specifically how the right saw it versus how the left saw it, where in the right we're saying Carney did nothing.

00:03:27.380 He just sat there and listened.

00:03:28.880 He was like obeying Trump almost, just sitting there doing nothing, elbows down.

00:03:33.020 And then he's like, there was obviously clips of Carney.

00:03:36.560 In fact, there was a montage showing Carney saying one thing during his campaign and then doing the exact opposite in the meeting with Trump.

00:03:42.960 And also he was really the one I remember that stands out to me is he was saying Paul Leivre, Pierre Paul Leivre would have knelt down to Trump and not stood up for Canada, which is essentially what Carney did.

00:03:54.280 We saw him just complimenting Trump, saying how great he is, but then people on the left are saying, oh, Carney had the best meeting ever with with Trump.

00:04:02.840 Pierre would have never been able to do this.

00:04:04.380 So I just it's it was so compelling to me to see the same meeting seen so vastly differently.

00:04:11.200 The exact opposite, in fact, from from from the two different sides.

00:04:14.960 It's just very weird.

00:04:16.900 I think we I mean, one of the issues that I know rankled Canadians a lot in the lead up to the election during the campaign was the president referring to Canada as the 51st state.

00:04:29.700 Now, you would think election of a new prime minister, prime minister said he was best positioned to stand up to Trump.

00:04:36.580 We wouldn't be hearing that rhetoric anymore.

00:04:38.520 But I think we have a clip showing that that particular line is still being used.

00:04:43.740 It would really be a wonderful marriage because it's it's two places.

00:04:48.420 They get along very well.

00:04:49.520 They like each other a lot.

00:04:50.760 Well, if if if I may, as you know, from real estate, there are some places that are never for sale.

00:04:58.680 That's true. We're sitting in one right now, you know, Buckingham Palace, you visited as well.

00:05:03.020 That's true. And having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign last several months, it's not for sale, won't be for sale ever.

00:05:12.980 But the opportunity is in the partnership and and what we can build together.

00:05:18.620 And we have done that in the past. And part of that, as the president just said, is with respect to our own security.

00:05:24.700 And my government is committed for a step change in our investment in Canadian security and our partnership.

00:05:32.420 And I'll say this as well, that the president has revitalized international security, revitalized NATO and us playing our full weight in NATO.

00:05:42.560 And that will be part of it.

00:05:43.560 And they have to say Canada is stepping up the military participation because Mark, you know, they were low and now they're stepping it up.

00:05:57.580 And that's a very important thing. But never say never, never say never.

00:06:00.820 Just a line at the end there, never say never. So I guess I would think also that was kind of Mark Carney's high point of the meeting.

00:06:09.960 That was as as good as it got for Prime Minister Mark Carney in other ways of looking at it.

00:06:16.760 There were no guarantees by the president to remove or lower tariffs on Canadian imports.

00:06:21.760 There was no commitment by the president to renegotiate the Canada, U.S., Mexico free trade agreement.

00:06:28.820 In fact, he even suggested it might not even exist following a few more months of these tariffs.

00:06:35.240 It would be not needed, to use his words.

00:06:37.040 And so, you know, based on that, no concrete outcomes that actually help Canada, no commitment to taking direct action on things like tariffs and the free trade agreement.

00:06:48.820 I'm curious how some people are spinning this as a win for for either Mark Carney or, frankly, for Canada.

00:06:55.660 To me, it seems like obviously the president likes Mark Carney more than he liked Justin Trudeau.

00:07:02.320 Looking at the polls heading into the election, the president liked Justin Trudeau about as much as the rest of Canada liked Justin Trudeau, which wasn't very much.

00:07:11.480 And now so we've got a better personal relationship, but it hasn't translated into any actual concrete evidence.

00:07:18.220 So do you see any actual wins for Mark Carney and more broadly Canada coming out of this meeting, Noah?

00:07:25.120 No, I think the only way you can interpret this meeting as a win is if you thought that Carney was going to just crash and burn, that it was going to be a catastrophic failure for the prime minister and for our country.

00:07:38.720 You know, I saw before this meeting, the legacy media setting the bar so low, they're predicting that this meeting would look a lot like Trump's meeting with Ukraine President Zelensky, where Trump and J.D. Vance basically berated Zelensky for a few different reasons, generally not showing appreciation for American military aid.

00:08:01.620 But this was never going to be a Zelensky type showing because the president hasn't a committed that much attention toward the Canada tariff file as he has in trying to find peace between Russia and Ukraine.

00:08:17.960 But the legacy media just projecting that this would be a catastrophic failure.

00:08:22.860 And then, you know, when Carney didn't just crash and burn and collapse on his face in the middle of the Oval Office, they can portray this as a big win.

00:08:30.180 This Oval Office media availability was about 30 to 35 minutes.

00:08:34.160 Carney only spoke for about three minutes.

00:08:36.400 The president didn't really want to hear what he was saying.

00:08:38.760 And quite frankly, the reporters in the room didn't really care to hear what Carney was saying because they were lobbing a bunch of questions to Trump about the Houthis and foreign affairs and different things within the Trump administration.

00:08:52.080 And they didn't really care that the prime minister of Canada was sitting right beside the president of the United States.

00:08:58.660 And you really had the legacy media spinning as hard as they possible in the United States and America.

00:09:05.660 You had a bunch of late night talk show hosts talking about how Carney friendzoned Trump or you had analysts on the CBC, you know, really analyzing when Mark Carney, you know, did a little grin to Trump's remarks or whatever.

00:09:21.860 And like, yeah, you know, this this is the face of strength right here.

00:09:24.800 It's not necessarily the face of strength.

00:09:27.640 I think Carney did a fine enough job.

00:09:30.720 You know, he didn't ruin our relations with the United States and he certainly is not, you know, enemies with Trump like Trudeau was.

00:09:40.240 But at the end of the day, as you said, William, there was no tangible policy changes, you know, to the tariffs or otherwise.

00:09:47.920 And Isaac, your final thoughts on this particular matter.

00:09:51.360 Yeah, I did think there was one win.

00:09:53.600 Of course, this isn't a change per se, but just one thing I took as a win, at least, because it is a huge concern for me and I think many Canadians.

00:10:03.400 Trump just said briefly that in no way, shape or form would he ever stop protecting Canada militarily, defending us.

00:10:11.180 And of course, this is one of the most important things the United States offers us in regard to foreign threats is their military protection from.

00:10:19.460 Imagine if China or Russia wanted to invade us, we need them. 0.63

00:10:22.240 This is not an option like we need their protection.

00:10:24.960 We would be completely lost without them.

00:10:27.920 We listened to Trump there mentioned the military briefly.

00:10:30.600 I mean, our military is laughable, of course, compared to the United States.

00:10:34.600 Yeah, I mean, I think it will give us a lot to rest easy on knowing that U.S. military assistance remains available.

00:10:41.640 During the campaign, there were some mention of Canada's armed forces and reinvesting them.

00:10:49.120 I think we're all keen to see if that actually becomes a legislative priority for this new slash old liberal government under Prime Minister Carney, whether we'll see actual improvements.

00:11:03.800 And of course, our own military under Mr. Trudeau was focusing on things like a gendered approach to landmine clearance in war zones or, you know, looking at conflict through an intersectional lens.

00:11:17.920 And I think, honestly, Mr. Trudeau probably just gave up having heard that rhetoric on Canada's treating it seriously.

00:11:25.580 So let's remain optimistic that, you know, despite the fact that we don't have any concrete takeaways or improvements for Canada, that this relationship appears to be slightly more positive than the last one.

00:11:36.980 So coming back inside the country, following the election results, we have seen rising sentiment towards a free and independent Alberta, a sovereign Alberta, a separate Alberta.

00:11:51.020 There's lots of language being used around it.

00:11:53.460 But this idea that the election outcome we just had does not represent the kind of change that Alberta was looking for in the last election.

00:12:02.760 Alberta, of course, elected only three non-conservatives in the election.

00:12:09.120 Every other seat in the province went to Team Blue.

00:12:12.000 So what is happening on this Alberta independence front, Isaac?

00:12:16.120 What's going on?

00:12:17.860 Yeah, so much to get into here.

00:12:19.420 I'll just start with the recently announced legislation from the Alberta UCP, which, of course, they lowered the legal referendum threshold from 20 percent of all registered electors across the province to 10 percent of ballots cast in the last general election, which, breaking it down, means that a citizen-initiated referendum, instead of needing 600,000 signatures, which was the previous requirement based on the math, now is only 177,000.

00:12:47.120 So, of course, this is a huge decrease.

00:12:49.040 And people have asked Smith to put her government support behind a referendum, which in no way, shape, or form has she done, despite legacy media trying to suggest that.

00:12:58.560 This is a citizen-initiated.

00:13:00.380 So she's really leaving it in the hands of Albertans.

00:13:02.340 Look, if you guys can collect the 177,000 signatures, then there's a legal process that will go through to vote on separation, which, of course, would require a clear majority vote in the province.

00:13:12.960 And if that does occur, then Alberta separation could become a real thing.

00:13:17.920 We've seen a lot of groups popping up, specifically the Alberta Prosperity Project, who are essentially getting people to pre-sign the petition on their website.

00:13:27.680 And then once they have well over the 177,000 required, they're going to start canvassing for the signatures to actually present it to Elections Alberta and start the process.

00:13:35.760 But we also saw a bit of animosity, let's say, between Smith and Ontario Premier Doug Ford, because Ford, of course, came out saying, oh, we need to be united as Canada.

00:13:49.940 We can't be talking separation, this and that.

00:13:52.040 And then Smith kind of responded to that yesterday in a press conference.

00:13:56.500 She said, look, I don't tell him how to run his province.

00:13:59.660 Why is he telling me how to run mine?

00:14:00.840 And again, Smith is really detached from the separatist movement.

00:14:03.820 So Ford throwing shots at her, I don't know if that was there.

00:14:07.960 But the funny quote I wanted to highlight from Smith about Ford in that press conference yesterday was she said that she thought he and her voted for different people in the last federal election, suggesting that he voted for the Liberals.

00:14:22.040 Did you guys want to talk about kind of what we saw from Ford during the election?

00:14:26.980 And obviously, a lot of conservatives were not happy with him.

00:14:30.980 Yeah, so I'm in Ontario.

00:14:33.160 I think I'm out of the us three best equipped to talk about my premier.

00:14:38.220 But yes, Doug Ford during the election, he and his campaign manager, Corey Tanike, were running their mouths about the conservative campaign and quality of that campaign.

00:14:49.380 They had just come off of a snap election in which the four PCs managed to win a third straight majority.

00:14:57.560 It was against two weak parties.

00:14:59.720 The NDP and the Liberals in Ontario don't really have good leaders and they're not very popular.

00:15:04.640 They don't put forward good policies.

00:15:06.240 But nonetheless, Ford managed to win that election victory.

00:15:09.580 And after that, he really thought that he was sort of the pontiff of Canadian electoral success.

00:15:16.380 You know, he felt that he, you know, was the king of his profession.

00:15:21.400 So he decided to give some unsolicited advice to the federal conservatives saying, you know, bash Trump hard, you know, make that your only campaign focus rather than focusing on the issues that Canadians have come to loathe about the Liberals for affordability, housing, crime, etc.

00:15:40.460 Just abandon, talk about that on the campaign trail and just talk about Donald Trump.

00:15:46.580 And I think that Corey Tanike really felt vindicated in the fact that the conservatives lost, even though he says that he cast a ballot for the party of conservatives.

00:15:57.580 And Ford did say that he cast a ballot for the conservatives, but they ought not feel vindicated because the party of conservatives, they won 44 percent of the votes in Ontario, while the Ontario PCs only won about 42 percent.

00:16:10.900 They only really won because the NDP and the Liberals split the left wing vote in Ontario, while the Carney Liberals managed to consolidate the left.

00:16:20.380 Jagmeet Singh, as we all know, is incompetent at his job, truly, truly incompetent.

00:16:25.860 But yeah, I think that, you know, the potential rift between Ford and Daniel Smith shows where two sides of the federal, two ways that the federal conservatives could go.

00:16:39.300 They can continue on the path that has brought them significant electoral success in this past election, even though they lost.

00:16:46.640 They can continue on that path and really focus on certain pocketbook issues and the issues that matter to conservatives and to Canadians in general, or they can just dilute who they are and really take the forward government approach.

00:17:01.700 So not really talk about conservative social issues, not really talking about the fiscal management issues and the mismanagement of the Liberals, and instead focusing on certain issues that are boutique issues for Laurentian elites in Toronto's downtown core and in Ottawa's downtown core.

00:17:21.340 So I think that Ford really wants to butt in and have more influence on the federal conservative side.

00:17:29.800 But I think as long as Pierre Poliev remains leader of the conservatives, you're going to see, you're not going to see very, very much influence from the Ontario PCs types.

00:17:39.960 And, you know, just a one-off, I would prefer it that way.

00:17:43.000 I mean, I'm going to point out that this was a conversation about Alberta separation, but the Ontarian just gave us a long statement on Ontario.

00:17:53.140 So that seems pretty fitting from what I understand about Eastern Canada.

00:17:57.440 You're welcome, guys.

00:17:58.740 Returning to Alberta separation and Alberta independence and what's happening in the province.

00:18:03.360 I think, first of all, I've counted at least six groups that are now up and running in Alberta promoting various forms of independence.

00:18:12.720 And I think it's worth saying that some of these groups are not looking for Alberta to immediately become its own independent country, which, of course, would require having a foreign affairs.

00:18:26.060 It would require having border control.

00:18:28.840 It would require having immigration, banking, all sorts of, you know, complex government, you know, structures in place in order to have it.

00:18:39.660 Some people are saying Alberta should be like Quebec, sovereign within Canada or having a measure of sovereignty beyond what it has right now.

00:18:48.940 And they often point to Quebec having its own provincial police force, collecting its own taxes, having more control over its own immigration as things that could easily or at least reasonably easily happen in Alberta.

00:19:03.240 So you've got the whole gamut.

00:19:05.240 I think the real question is, what is the desire and the appetite on the part of Albertans to see actual separation versus are we simply looking for more not only just respect, but actually more direct control over the things that directly impact our province?

00:19:24.860 The ability to extract and export our natural resources, including oil and natural gas, the ability to control, you know, when government Ottawa is providing funding, can they provide that funding in a way that Albertans decide how it is spent within that policy area or is it a one size fits all solution from Ottawa, like the national childcare program, which ended up being quite problematic for it.

00:19:48.860 So this debate is just getting going.

00:19:50.860 I will say one other interesting point, which is, you know, we did have a recall initiative in Calgary to get rid of our beloved mayor, Jody Gontek, who is, by the way, not beloved.

00:20:03.860 That was a slightly sarcastic statement.

00:20:07.860 And of course, it was unsuccessful, given there was a very high threshold in order to enact it.

00:20:13.860 And there have now been changes to try and make it easier for a recall to happen.

00:20:16.860 But if it's unsuccessful, that's kind of it.

00:20:20.860 You only really get this one kick at the can before it's gone.

00:20:24.860 So if the preparatory work, if the independent groups in Alberta don't cooperate and collaborate and figure out a path forward, if they hold a referendum and it comes back, no, we want to stay with Canada, that's going to be it for them for at least the next, I would say, the rest of the term of the government.

00:20:42.860 So, Isaac, is there any worry that having this many competing efforts, this many voices and maybe, you know, people and I wouldn't say this applies to all groups, maybe some groups a little more interested in building their own empire than they are about advancing a public policy goal.

00:20:59.860 Do you think there's any concern that they're working at cross purposes?

00:21:03.860 Yeah, that's always been a big concern for me in relation to this, William.

00:21:08.860 That's why I've always tried to focus on the Alberta Prosperity Project, because I've seen them as the most legitimate.

00:21:14.860 As I've said, there's been other petitions, but they're not doing the same things that Alberta Prosperity Project would, which is, of course, as I said, collecting the signatures.

00:21:24.860 And then when we get into the political parties, I briefly mentioned the Republican Party of Alberta.

00:21:28.860 I mean, this is the last thing I want to see, which is division or vote splitting.

00:21:33.860 We saw what happened federally with the PPC.

00:21:35.860 And then conversely, on the left, where the NDP were essentially decimated and the Liberals took all their votes, which is, of course, how they ended up beating the Conservatives.

00:21:43.860 So I really don't like to see the splitting.

00:21:46.860 And that's the other thing with these petitions.

00:21:48.860 They're all nonpartisan groups separate from the government.

00:21:50.860 So the government's a whole other thing.

00:21:52.860 And if we did separate, then what's to occur?

00:21:54.860 Of course, you mentioned briefly sovereignty within Canada, which is essentially what Smith's been advocating for.

00:21:59.860 She said, look, I want to stay within Canada.

00:22:01.860 I believe in a sovereign Alberta within Canada.

00:22:04.860 She's talked about partnering with Quebec, too.

00:22:06.860 But she's also began attacking equalization payments, which, of course, is a big concern for many Albertans, sending so much money to the East and feel like we're getting little respect in return, as you mentioned.

00:22:18.860 But yeah, I don't know exactly what might need to be the uniting force for a referendum movement to be successful.

00:22:25.860 But I don't see it being successful if there is a splitting, as I mentioned.

00:22:30.860 And just because this is something I'm curious about from an Ontarian and a chance for you to talk on the whole divide between the federal Conservatives and the and the provincial PCs.

00:22:41.860 Overwhelmingly, someone who votes provincially PC in Ontario probably voted for the Conservative Party of Canada in the federal election and vice versa.

00:22:51.860 So how much of this do you think is a fundamental division between two types of Conservatives versus how much is it is the egos of the leadership or some of the leadership within these two parties?

00:23:06.860 How much of this is simply jostling each other, maybe thinking about, you know, their other day jobs, because many of them work for government relations firms.

00:23:15.860 That's lobbyists to everyday people.

00:23:18.860 And how much of this maybe is about trying to get business for those firms?

00:23:21.860 So fundamental rift or insider fight that couldn't matter less to an ordinary Conservative voter in the province of Ontario?

00:23:31.860 I'm going to take the cop out answer and say both.

00:23:34.860 But I fundamentally think it is more of the first that there is a fundamental rift.

00:23:39.860 I mean, you just have to look at the difference in style between the Alberta UCP or even the British Columbia Conservative Party compared to the Ontario PCs.

00:23:48.860 The way the way they govern or the policies that they run on, they're quite different than what, say, the Ontario PCs are putting forward.

00:23:57.860 If you look at the past seven years of Ontario PC governance, they haven't really done much to cut down on the provincial deficit.

00:24:05.860 We're still running, you know, they haven't ran a balanced budget in their seven years of governance.

00:24:10.860 They haven't cut taxes. They said they would cut taxes in 2018, but they did not.

00:24:16.860 And even with, you know, Premier Doug Ford's boutique sort of items on alcohol.

00:24:23.860 I mean, you know, yeah, I guess conservatives would prefer that alcohol sales were deregulated.

00:24:28.860 They're already deregulated in Alberta.

00:24:30.860 I went to Alberta a few times and I'm like, wow, you guys have like non-government liquor stores.

00:24:35.860 This is incredible.

00:24:36.860 But yeah, I mean, like even stuff like that, they're like small items on the conservative wish list and he doesn't really do much on the big items like getting rid of gender ideology and just woke with them in the education system, building housing.

00:24:51.860 You back down on, you know, basically redistricting the green belt.

00:24:55.860 These are things that Doug Ford has not really pushed forward on, whereas the BC conservatives, Daniel Smith's UCP, they definitely take a very different approach to governance.

00:25:05.860 And I think that Pierre Polia's federal conservatives, they more align with the BC conservatives.

00:25:10.860 They align with the UCP far more than they do with the Ontario PCs.

00:25:15.860 And I think because there are these fundamental non-alignments on these issues, you do have, say, Pierre Polia not really willing to reach out to Premier Doug Ford and vice versa because they see themselves as maybe not ideological opponents, but they don't really see themselves as similar.

00:25:36.860 Whereas, say, Tim Houston and Doug Ford, they might see themselves as much more similar in their style of politics and in their style of governance.

00:25:44.860 And on the issue of Alberta separation, you're going to have a lot of Ontario conservatives, even myself included, who would say, you know, you probably guys shouldn't separate from Canada.

00:25:53.860 Don't go, please.

00:25:54.860 But, you know, there is a sort of style of Western conservatism that is more independent minded, that values the individual more.

00:26:04.860 And, you know, honestly does not like the idea of a federal government intruding in their affairs and would prefer a more loosely federated federation.

00:26:16.860 So I think that, you know, this rift in the conservative movement is very visible when you look at the different premiers and how they govern.

00:26:26.860 And you're going to see that when the Alberta separatist movement gains a little steam and how certain conservatives around the country are going to react to that movement, whether or not they're going to express their sympathy, even if they politely disagree, or whether or not they're just going to, you know, throw a bunch of vitriol and, you know, potentially gasoline on this already growing fire.

00:26:49.860 Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be a very interesting time for the Canadian Federation one way or another.

00:26:56.860 Certainly not, certainly not the dull, cooperative time that characterized, for example, Prime Minister Harper's time in office.

00:27:05.860 There appears to be none of these disputes about this province versus that province.

00:27:11.860 Just one other thing I think we want to talk about is we all know that, of course, sadly, Conservative leader Pierre Palièvre lost his Carleton area, Ottawa area riding Carleton in the federal election.

00:27:24.860 And there was, there's a lot of talk about why that might have been, you know, if it was the revenge of the Ottawa bureaucrats who didn't like Palièvre's commitment to thinning the ranks of the civil service or his support for the Freedom Convoy, whatever the case is.

00:27:41.860 But one of the things that was identified was the fact that, along with his own name, there were about 100 other candidates on the ballot in the riding of Carleton, which made for, frankly, a ludicrously sized ballot.

00:27:54.860 And I think we can, you know, say that that's highly unusual.

00:27:59.860 It's not something we've come to expect in Canadian politics.

00:28:02.860 In Canadian politics.

00:28:03.860 Well, those wonderful long ballot initiative people have decided their work isn't done.

00:28:09.860 And they're now preparing another initiative for the forthcoming by-election and the riding of Battle River Crowfoot, which is the Alberta riding where Pierre Palièvre is going to run at least for the remainder of this parliamentary session in order to get a seat back in the House of Commons.

00:28:24.860 They're trying to get 200 names on the ballot, which would be, I mean, you might have to get a little booklet of the ballot in order to fit that many names onto it.

00:28:35.860 And so I think there's a lot of questions about why are so many candidates just getting their names on the ballot?

00:28:42.860 How are they even doing this given, you know, don't people have to achieve things or complete things or submit things to get on a ballot in this country?

00:28:51.860 So, Isaac, why don't you start us off telling us a little bit about how we've come to be in this place and what what can be done maybe about it?

00:29:00.860 Yeah. So first, I'll just say there were 91 candidates on Palièvre's Carleton Riding's ballot.

00:29:06.860 And in fact, there was a video of kind of funny of him and his wife voting and they could barely fit the ballot in the box because they had to fold it up so many times because these ballots are like, I think it was 1.91 meters long.

00:29:18.860 Someone had measured it ridiculous. And now we're talking about the longest ballot committee wanting 200 names, so more than double that size.

00:29:25.860 So what would that be like 5 meters long? I mean, this is insanity.

00:29:29.860 And they're essentially calling on Canadians from across the country to sign up as candidates because it turns out you don't actually have to live in the riding to run in the riding as an electoral candidate.

00:29:42.860 And the only stipulation is, well, there are a few, but the most important stipulation is that any candidate needs 100 sponsors from the riding.

00:29:51.860 But when I was writing an article on this, I reached out to Elections Canada and they confirmed that these 100 vouchees, let's call them for the for the candidate can can do it to 1000 candidates.

00:30:02.860 So if they if the longest ballot committee could get the same 100 people to sponsor 200 candidates, that would be fine, you wouldn't need 20,000 people because I looked up the population of the riding and it was about 110,000, I think in 2021.

00:30:16.860 So at that point, you're talking about 20% of the population, if if it were that that way.

00:30:21.860 And in fact, the election, the chief electoral officer following, I think this was the 2024 Quebec by election, which also had 91 candidates on the ballot.

00:30:33.860 He basically asked Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Dominic LeBlanc to change the rules so that these people vouching for candidates could only support one candidate.

00:30:43.860 But obviously, that hasn't happened. So Elections Canada essentially told me that the same concerns that the chief electoral officer rose still exist because the change hasn't happened.

00:30:53.860 And and any such changes would, of course, require a parliamentary act.

00:30:57.860 So that's not going to happen before the by-election, not likely anyways, because Prime Minister Mark Carney said he would call the by-election as soon as possible.

00:31:05.860 So we'll see when that happens. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy.

00:31:10.860 And I don't know, we'll see how many candidates they actually end up getting.

00:31:15.860 But because essentially you could just be anywhere in Canada, as long as you're above 18 years old, you could you could submit your name and they in their email,

00:31:22.860 they actually ask people to email your full name, your phone number, etc.

00:31:26.860 So, yeah. Do you do you guys think there'll actually be 200 candidates on the ballot when Pierre runs?

00:31:30.860 And if so, what what issues might that cause for him?

00:31:34.860 So, you know, the yeah, the long ballot initiative has shown themselves to be adept at putting a bunch of Yahoo's on the ballot.

00:31:41.860 So it seems like they they might get 200.

00:31:44.860 But, you know, as you said, the electoral laws need to be reformed because the idea that as a signatory who wants to see a certain candidate on the ballot,

00:31:54.860 that you're going to support multiple candidates on the ballot.

00:31:57.860 I mean, in a traditional election, that that's doesn't really make any sense.

00:32:00.860 Like, why would you sign on, say, for a conservative candidate and a liberal candidate and NDP candidate?

00:32:06.860 You know, they're running on different platforms, hypothetically.

00:32:09.860 And, you know, there are some easier forms to be made here.

00:32:12.860 You suggested you're only being able to sign sign one person's application form.

00:32:19.860 There's also the chance that all you have to do is ensure create a law that states that if you're an electoral agent, you're only allowed to be the agent for one campaign.

00:32:30.860 And that's a common sense reform.

00:32:32.860 I mean, if you are an electoral agent for the conservatives, you're not also going to be the electoral agent for the liberal campaign in that writing.

00:32:39.860 You're just running on, you know, hypothetically different platforms, different policies.

00:32:43.860 So it just doesn't make sense for people to register as an electoral agent for multiple candidates, especially in the same writing.

00:32:51.860 But just in general, we used to live in a country with standards.

00:32:55.860 You know, like I'm not saying we should go back to the old rules where you have to own property to vote or whatever.

00:33:01.860 You know, I wouldn't be able to vote under those rules.

00:33:03.860 So let's not do that. I like my right to vote.

00:33:06.860 But at the end of the day, you know, we used to be a country that held standards for people running for elected office.

00:33:14.860 And the fact that the courts have struck down the rule where you need to submit a thousand dollar deposit to run as a candidate, I think is one of the big reasons why you have some of these initiatives to be possible.

00:33:29.860 I mean, sure, maybe you don't have to make a thousand dollars, but make it like five hundred dollars.

00:33:33.860 There should be a risk or there should be at least an impediment to just, you know, putting your name on a ballot with no intention of trying to get elected.

00:33:43.860 If there was a five hundred dollar barrier, I think a lot of these people would reconsider, you know, just putting their name on the ballot for a meme.

00:33:51.860 You know, like it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

00:33:55.860 And, you know, when voters go to vote and they have to look down this long list, you know, it really hurts the candidates who has a name in the back end of the alphabet.

00:34:05.860 If you just look in the Carlton example, Bruce Fanjoy, I'm not sure how I know they're alpha numerically listed.

00:34:13.860 But, you know, if you look at Bruce Fanjoy, his first name is Bruce, his last name is Fanjoy.

00:34:18.860 They're higher up in the alphabet than Pierre Polyev.

00:34:22.860 So a lot of voters would have to look down the ballot, look down hundreds, hundreds of names to get to Pierre Polyev.

00:34:28.860 And that naturally benefits a candidate like Bruce Fanjoy, who's higher up on the ballot.

00:34:34.860 So there's a lot of things that could go wrong with these long ballots, much less the fact that it takes longer to tally up these votes.

00:34:43.860 But, you know, the liberals, if they're benefiting from it, if this long ballot initiative is targeting conservatives and conservative candidates and conservative leaders, what makes them incentivized to make these changes?

00:34:55.860 You know, I think it's a great question, which is they targeted Pierre Polyevre in Carlton.

00:35:01.860 He was leader of the opposition rather than targeting Mark Carney, the prime minister in a nearby riding.

00:35:07.860 I suppose you could argue that up until almost the eve of the election, Pierre Polyevre was expected to become prime minister.

00:35:16.860 So maybe that's why they targeted.

00:35:18.860 But now why are they targeting his by-election?

00:35:20.860 Because at that point, it sort of seems like it's almost personal that they're going after just one candidate.

00:35:26.860 So and I think a lot of people will be surprised to know how easy it is now to get your name on a ballot and that there are very few requirements for someone.

00:35:35.860 As Noah pointed out, there used to be a thousand dollar deposit that was struck down by the courts as being too high a barrier for people in order to get on.

00:35:45.860 I mean, respectfully, if you can't raise a thousand dollars to get your name on the ballot, you won't raise the kind of money you have to in order to run a winning election campaign.

00:35:54.860 That's just facts.

00:35:55.860 Similarly, if you can vouch for hundreds of people or hundreds of candidates, that means that a tiny portion of the population is able to really interfere in an entire riding wide election.

00:36:10.860 You know, we used to also have unlimited donations or very high donation limits, and those were wiped out because it was unfair that a single group of very wealthy people should be able to sway the outcome of an election.

00:36:24.860 So I think the same argument applies here that election should be decided by the voters of a district.

00:36:31.860 It shouldn't be a small group of people disrupting it.

00:36:35.860 So I certainly hope I wonder why the Liberal government didn't act on the advice of the chief electoral officer and take action to solve this issue.

00:36:43.860 I wonder why after the court ruling, which I think was in 2018, it certainly wasn't a couple of months before the last election.

00:36:52.860 So they've had ample time to make progress on these, but probably because it wasn't on one of their favorite woke topic areas.

00:37:01.860 They just didn't want to pay any attention.

00:37:04.860 It wasn't about, you know, either trans kids or giving away tampons in men's bathrooms on military bases or some of the other priorities for our former government.

00:37:15.860 So, well, that takes us to our last quick segment.

00:37:19.860 And I was going to say on the lighter side of the news.

00:37:23.860 And then I realized that that was a pun because it's about the city council in Vancouver who are luminous and focusing really on the issues that matter.

00:37:37.860 Noah, what is this city council's latest priority?

00:37:41.860 Well, I think after this federal election campaign, we all realized that the number one issue that matters to Canadians the most

00:37:48.860 is banning gun shaped lighters.

00:37:50.860 This is the priority that Canadians elected members of the Vancouver City Council to focus on.

00:37:56.860 These city councilors, they claim that these gun shaped lighters have been involved in several crimes and therefore they need to be banned.

00:38:05.860 Although Vancouver, they have a problem with, you know, just random stranger attacks, about two per day where someone is randomly attacked by a homeless person or someone else.

00:38:15.860 You know, in some cases, they are just mauled or even killed.

00:38:19.860 But yes, banning gun shaped lighters.

00:38:21.860 These, this is the stuff that, you know, city council exists to, you know, ban.

00:38:26.860 I think that, you know, a lot of Canadians would agree with me.

00:38:29.860 There's a lot bigger priorities to tackle when it comes to public safety.

00:38:32.860 Vancouver, for just like an eight to ten block radius, has a no go zone in their downtown core, where if you walk by, you're likely to be stabbed by a heroin needle.

00:38:43.860 Because there are just thousands of thousands of homeless people who have just occupied those streets, those businesses who are there.

00:38:50.860 You know, I pray for the business owners because they're, they're probably having a hard time.

00:38:56.860 But yeah, I mean, Vancouver is just one of the, you know, the capitals of crime in Canada, or at the very least, just issues that, you know, need municipal direction, municipal guidance.

00:39:09.860 And instead, this is the direction that the Vancouver City Council is taking.

00:39:13.860 I hope that this lunacy does not come to my city or to Toronto.

00:39:17.860 You have Olivia Chow, you know, in, in deep agreement with this motion, for sure.

00:39:23.860 But what do you think, Isaac, about banning gun shaped lighters?

00:39:27.860 You think this is going to crack down on the scourge of crime?

00:39:30.860 Yeah, I'm guessing the, the, the no go zone you're mentioning is East Hastings or something, but we can all picture it.

00:39:37.860 If you've ever been to Vancouver, you know what it's like.

00:39:39.860 I let's, let's just hope this program has a bit more success than the Liberals is gun buyback program, which, of course, despite spending hundreds of millions on, they have still not collected a single gun.

00:39:48.860 So we'll see if cops start actually confiscating these, these gun shaped lighters or, or giving people tickets for using them.

00:39:54.860 I mean, it's ridiculous.

00:39:55.860 How, how will the, the, the drug, the drug addicts in, in downtown Vancouver be lighting their crack pipes without, without these lighters?

00:40:02.860 I mean, nobody knows.

00:40:04.860 That's the strategy.

00:40:05.860 Yeah.

00:40:06.860 You do have to wonder why leftist politicians care so much about issues like gun crime.

00:40:12.860 And yet every single policy they enact does nothing to actually stop gun crime.

00:40:18.860 I mean, I think everybody in this country pretty well knows that it isn't gun shaped lighters or law abiding duck hunters and ranchers that are the real problem when it comes to guns.

00:40:30.860 It is the flow of illegal weapons from the United States into Canada being used by gang members and criminals to commit crime.

00:40:38.860 And yet every lefty seems to think there's something they can do from a regulatory standpoint that will have this major impact.

00:40:48.860 And it isn't just on, on guns.

00:40:50.860 I have to laugh because I remember here in Alberta, we had a former NDP MLA who put forward a private members bill.

00:40:57.860 It was, it was about fighting racism, combating, you know, hate crime.

00:41:02.860 And his approach was to try and ban tiki torches in the province of Alberta, because in his opinion, that was a symbol of hate.

00:41:11.860 I believed it was a symbol of luau.

00:41:14.860 And unless you're a roast pig, then you're probably not really at risk from a tiki torch.

00:41:20.860 But you do have to shake your head and wonder what is it with some of these out of touch nut job lefties.

00:41:26.860 And Noah, with respect, if you think Toronto under its current leadership is going to be spared nonsense like this, then I, I'm sorry to have to tell you, I, I'm not optimistic.

00:41:36.860 So I think with that, we're coming at the end of our, of our time.

00:41:41.860 I want to thank Noah and Isaac for sharing their thoughts and opinions with us today.

00:41:46.860 I think it's definitely not a boring time in Canadian politics.

00:41:49.860 We have lots coming on in the next few months.

00:41:52.860 But of course, as always, everything that we've said today is on the record.

00:41:57.860 The tiki torch thing, I just, it, he was made so much fun of in the legislative assembly that his own party was unable to defend him.

00:42:07.860 So it's, it's just unbelievable.

00:42:10.860 So, yeah, anything, anything else crazy you remember that lefties want to ban?

00:42:17.860 Well, no, but one thing I just wanted to mention quick was we didn't talk about the conservative MP, Damien Couric,

00:42:24.860 who's, who was the conservative leader who stepped down from Battle River Crowfoot after he had a, a tremendously large win in the riding with over 80% of vote.

00:42:33.860 And, and just so you guys can kind of understand what he might've had to go through to get that.

00:42:37.860 This is an enormous riding in rural Alberta. I think there's like 30 or 40 towns in that.

00:42:42.860 So imagine him canvassing over these hundreds of kilometers throughout the electoral process.

00:42:47.860 And then he of course stepped down for Pierre.

00:42:49.860 So I just wanted to get that on the record, off the record, but yeah.

00:42:53.860 Yeah, Pierre used that campaign plane that they were using during the general election to travel that riding.

00:42:59.860 Oh my gosh. It's huge. It's unbelievable.

00:43:02.860 It is very large riding. I always say, you know, if you're a conservative leader, find yourself a safe seat.

00:43:07.860 I believe Damien won with more than 82% of the vote. I think it was even close to 83.

00:43:13.860 I would argue it doesn't come much safer than that, but I, I suspect first of all, that this is not Pierre's permanent new home.

00:43:21.860 I think he's only going to stay in there until there's another federal election and he may choose to run again, which case we'll see Damien back.

00:43:28.860 And if Pierre becomes prime minister, I don't think he's going to quickly forget the sacrifice.

00:43:34.860 Mr. Couric made, and maybe we'll see him in cabinet, uh, in a new conservative government.

00:43:39.860 So I guess we'll have to look out for that down the road.

00:43:41.860 I wish him the best.

00:43:43.860 Audience member.

00:43:44.860 .

Juno News - May 12, 2025

Mark Carney immediately backs down on ＂Elbows Up＂ approach with Trump

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