Juno News - June 08, 2021


Mask Misdirection


Episode Stats

Length

39 minutes

Words per Minute

179.8352

Word Count

7,115

Sentence Count

274

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

12


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:06.740 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.980 Coming up, Chrystia Freeland's Mask Theatre, Justin Trudeau's Fake Quarantine Hotel,
00:00:18.120 and the Liberals' shutdown debate to ram through Bill C-10.
00:00:23.680 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:30.000 Oh, I didn't know we were on. Hang on, hang on, hang on.
00:00:40.340 Hi, welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show, Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show here on True North.
00:00:46.460 I'm so sorry you caught me off guard. I was all masked and ready to go.
00:00:50.620 I always wear a mask. You're never going to catch me without one.
00:00:53.180 It's, I just, you know, don't worry about that.
00:00:55.960 Wait, I'm starting to sound like Chrystia Freeland, aren't I?
00:00:58.040 Oh, yes. Forgive this little bit of fun at Chrystia Freeland's expense.
00:01:02.880 A couple of times now, she's been caught just putting on a mask at that exact moment
00:01:07.500 when it is politically convenient for the sake of optics to do it.
00:01:12.120 The first was this little video clip of a press conference.
00:01:15.620 All right. Welcome to today's press conference.
00:01:40.180 We will now hear from the Deputy Prime Minister.
00:01:46.780 Okay. Thank you very much.
00:01:49.020 Oh, what do you know? Put it on at the last second just to take it right off
00:01:53.000 in a performative act of mask virtue signaling.
00:01:56.700 And then a couple of days later, she's posing for this big group photo
00:02:00.980 outside the G7 Finance Minister's meeting.
00:02:03.460 And, oh, what do you know? She's the only one masked.
00:02:06.560 Everyone else is unmasked.
00:02:07.760 But then you look at some of the other pictures that weren't used
00:02:11.160 that were circulating on Twitter,
00:02:13.120 and you see moments before the picture is taken,
00:02:16.260 she is scrambling to put on her mask
00:02:18.540 just to make it look like she's always wearing it.
00:02:21.840 Well, if that isn't just performative theatrical nonsense,
00:02:26.040 I don't know what is.
00:02:27.560 Now, at first, I find it ridiculous to pretend to be wearing it
00:02:32.960 only to take it off,
00:02:34.500 to make it look like you were wearing it the whole time.
00:02:36.900 It's absolutely absurd.
00:02:38.480 But even then, at this point in the pandemic,
00:02:40.380 when you are in England, a country in which most people are fully vaccinated,
00:02:44.200 you yourself have been partially vaccinated,
00:02:46.660 to be the only world leader and dignitary wearing a mask
00:02:50.620 outside while socially distanced
00:02:53.000 is kind of a decent reflection of where Canada is right now.
00:02:57.980 She's not fully vaccinated.
00:02:59.960 She is, like most Canadians,
00:03:01.860 still forced to wear a mask when she goes out.
00:03:04.540 And she will have to, if she follows the rules,
00:03:06.980 and we'll talk about this a little bit more,
00:03:08.620 hotel quarantine when she gets back
00:03:10.940 and then do a 14-day quarantine.
00:03:12.960 So the Canadian inferiority,
00:03:14.840 as far as the COVID situation compared to elsewhere in the world,
00:03:18.280 was on full display when Chrystia Freeland posed for that picture.
00:03:21.940 And you see her in other photos from the G7
00:03:25.060 and other footage when she's meeting with her counterparts and her colleagues.
00:03:28.180 They're all living life as normal.
00:03:30.240 She is the lone mask wearer in a lot of situations.
00:03:34.740 And this theatrical display with the mask is really not fooling anyone.
00:03:39.380 And it actually makes me a little bit frustrated
00:03:41.800 because it means that Canadian lawmakers
00:03:43.880 are really hell-bent on creating this idea
00:03:47.420 of a new normal that is very far removed from the old normal
00:03:52.320 that we've all been hoping our government would let us go back to.
00:03:56.380 And even use the word let there
00:03:57.980 sends a bit of a chill down my liberty-loving spine.
00:04:01.960 And I know these are silly things to poke fun at here.
00:04:05.540 And I've had a couple of people say,
00:04:06.720 well, is this really the biggest thing going on?
00:04:08.740 Is this the biggest thing to criticize the liberals for?
00:04:10.980 And it's not that it's the biggest thing.
00:04:13.580 The point is that the little things tend to matter
00:04:16.340 when they're part of a bigger pattern.
00:04:18.780 And in this case, that pattern is the liberal government
00:04:21.200 gaslighting Canadians into thinking that this is a normal way to live
00:04:25.300 and a normal way to behave.
00:04:27.680 Chrystia Freeland is not the only person over in the UK right now.
00:04:31.280 Justin Trudeau will be joining later this week.
00:04:33.460 Mark Garneau was there a couple of weeks ago.
00:04:35.660 This is one of the biggest multilateral events
00:04:38.060 to take place in person this year.
00:04:40.120 And the first, in fact, that Canada has participated in
00:04:43.420 in quite a while, as I understand it.
00:04:45.480 And the government has been extolling the virtues
00:04:47.580 of in-person multilateral diplomacy.
00:04:50.260 And by the way, I agree with it.
00:04:51.980 Certain things you cannot replicate on a Zoom screen,
00:04:55.520 especially in a diplomatic context.
00:04:57.960 But the problem is that Canadians like you and like me
00:05:01.220 are still being told any travel we want to do
00:05:04.220 isn't all that important.
00:05:05.840 We shouldn't be leaving the country, but they can.
00:05:08.700 And politicians are, by the way, exempt from quarantine.
00:05:12.580 They're exempt from hotel quarantine.
00:05:14.160 But Justin Trudeau is choosing to do a hotel quarantine
00:05:18.440 just to prove the point that this is the way
00:05:20.920 we should all be doing things.
00:05:22.720 Except there's a problem.
00:05:24.280 One of the restrictions the federal government put in place
00:05:26.940 was to ensure that international flights
00:05:29.780 could only enter the country through four airports.
00:05:32.260 And it was hotels around those four airports,
00:05:35.340 Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver,
00:05:37.820 that had to be converted to these government-approved accommodations.
00:05:42.600 Well, there aren't any in Ottawa,
00:05:44.380 which is where Justin Trudeau's plane is going to be flying into.
00:05:47.700 So just to prove that Trudeau is willing to play by the rules,
00:05:51.000 they're taking over an Ottawa hotel
00:05:52.760 and turning it into a government quarantine facility
00:05:56.180 that Justin Trudeau and his handlers and other staff
00:05:59.540 and even some media will have to stay at.
00:06:01.960 But it's theatrical.
00:06:03.160 It's fake.
00:06:03.700 It's not a real quarantine hotel.
00:06:06.300 It's just being done to appease the peasants,
00:06:09.560 which is so central to the government's insistence
00:06:12.220 that this is all how a normal functioning society
00:06:15.080 is supposed to work.
00:06:16.640 I want to talk about this with Michelle Rempel-Garner,
00:06:19.120 who says that the hotel quarantine in Ottawa is not enough.
00:06:22.700 She joins me on the line now.
00:06:24.340 Michelle, good to talk to you.
00:06:25.380 Thanks for coming on today.
00:06:27.340 Likewise.
00:06:27.740 Thanks for having me.
00:06:28.440 So your motion, which you put before the House of Commons,
00:06:32.120 was to force Justin Trudeau and his delegation
00:06:34.380 to quarantine at one of his designated hotel quarantine sites
00:06:38.760 that every other Canadian's been subjected to,
00:06:41.320 rather than this special Ottawa hotel arrangement
00:06:44.760 that's being set up.
00:06:46.180 When push comes to shove, why does it matter
00:06:48.100 if he's going through the motions
00:06:49.260 and quarantining in a hotel upon return?
00:06:53.340 Oh, let me count the ways, Andrew.
00:06:55.240 First of all, there are tens of thousands of Canadians
00:06:58.400 who are separated from loved ones by border restrictions,
00:07:03.300 and they can't afford the quarantine hotel system, number one.
00:07:09.100 Number two, there have been reports of sexual assaults at these hotels.
00:07:13.500 There have been reports of COVID-19 outbreaks,
00:07:16.720 and the government's own panel of scientists
00:07:20.140 has said that this program should be scrapped.
00:07:23.740 So, you know, the elitism of,
00:07:27.720 well, I'm not going to stay at the regular hotel.
00:07:31.460 I need to shut down an Ottawa area hotel to do this.
00:07:34.440 It's ridiculous.
00:07:36.340 It's theatre at the taxpayer expense,
00:07:39.500 and I just think it's probably one of the most bourgeois things
00:07:44.720 that he's done.
00:07:46.220 I had the department officials at Health Committee today.
00:07:49.820 I encourage you to have a look at that.
00:07:51.740 I asked a couple of the deputy minister-level folks,
00:07:57.380 well, you know, what's different about the prime minister's security
00:08:00.480 as opposed to a woman who's allegedly been sexually assaulted
00:08:03.860 at a quarantine hotel?
00:08:05.840 And their response was just so removed from reality
00:08:10.680 and actually disgusting.
00:08:14.400 The prime minister should not be travelling
00:08:16.340 if he's not going to stay at a quarantine hotel
00:08:18.980 like everybody else,
00:08:20.200 or he should scrap the program,
00:08:21.900 which he should have done a long time ago.
00:08:23.880 Yeah, this is the government that famously said back in 2015
00:08:27.980 when first elected that it was going to be evidence-driven,
00:08:31.000 unlike those conservatives.
00:08:31.960 We're going to listen to the evidence and listen to the science,
00:08:34.300 and time and time again,
00:08:35.860 when the so-called science doesn't align with their policy objectives,
00:08:39.660 there's always a reason for why they aren't following it.
00:08:42.440 And this report that came out a little while ago
00:08:45.340 is a great example of this.
00:08:46.740 The government's given no concession
00:08:48.720 that the report might be valid,
00:08:50.540 even though they were the ones that put it together.
00:08:52.160 They've just been downplaying it
00:08:53.740 and talking about all the reasons why,
00:08:55.620 well, you know, we'll take it into consideration.
00:08:57.700 It's just an interim report
00:08:59.100 when it says the hotel quarantine simply doesn't do anything.
00:09:03.380 Yeah, great points and a few things to build on from that.
00:09:06.880 First of all, I've heard rumours from a few well-placed sources
00:09:10.340 that the government was actually in possession of that report
00:09:13.820 for a long period of time,
00:09:15.120 that they actually renewed the hotel quarantine program
00:09:17.600 while being in possession of that report and sitting on it.
00:09:21.820 You know, I think that's something that needs to be looked into
00:09:24.620 based on what you just said,
00:09:26.800 that the government isn't making science-based decisions.
00:09:29.300 And just furthering that,
00:09:31.460 I have asked department officials numerous times
00:09:34.860 to publish data that shows that this quarantine hotel system
00:09:39.500 is better at preventing the spread of COVID
00:09:41.480 than any number of other options, including at-home quarantine.
00:09:44.940 They can never provide that.
00:09:46.480 Bluntly put, Trudeau failed to close the border
00:09:49.020 when it counted in early 2020.
00:09:51.800 And the hotel quarantine program was just put in place,
00:09:55.400 I believe, to discourage middle-class Canadians
00:09:58.180 from travelling to make it cost-ineffective
00:10:01.140 because it's sure not stopping NHL players
00:10:03.660 and rich people from getting special exemptions.
00:10:05.800 It's sure not stopping Justin Trudeau from travelling abroad.
00:10:09.380 And that entitlement, that elitism,
00:10:13.120 that stratification of social class
00:10:15.220 under the guise of public health orders is disgusting.
00:10:18.600 And I hope that Canadians of all political stripes
00:10:21.160 hold him to account for it.
00:10:22.960 You are right about the elitism,
00:10:25.140 not just in hotel quarantine,
00:10:26.800 but in general with a lot of the travel restrictions
00:10:29.340 because we've seen that people who have money
00:10:31.920 can get around it.
00:10:33.280 You know, they can fly with a private jet
00:10:34.860 into an airport that's not one of those main four.
00:10:37.520 They can pay for the hotel quarantine if they need to.
00:10:40.260 They can do these bizarre arrangements
00:10:42.380 like driving to a border and taking a helicopter over
00:10:45.300 that we heard of happening in Ontario and Quebec.
00:10:47.760 And politicians in the same boat,
00:10:49.420 they're telling Canadians that their travel is not essential
00:10:52.420 no matter why they want to do it or how important it is.
00:10:55.120 But when they're doing something abroad,
00:10:56.860 whether it's a G7 summit or something else,
00:10:59.540 it's essential.
00:11:00.580 And there is a double standard there.
00:11:02.520 And admittedly, I'm not one who's saying don't travel.
00:11:05.200 I'm saying that if they're telling people not to travel,
00:11:08.260 they should be playing by the same rules.
00:11:09.840 How is an NHL player traveling into Canada
00:11:14.840 more essential than, you know,
00:11:17.640 I had a constituent in tears call me
00:11:19.560 about how his cross-border relationship
00:11:21.480 is in very difficult times,
00:11:25.720 has family members that are sick.
00:11:27.860 How is that travel more essential?
00:11:29.420 Like, it's just complete, you know,
00:11:31.680 I was going to use an expletive.
00:11:32.960 It's just so bad.
00:11:36.040 I, the program needs to end.
00:11:39.420 And at this point in time,
00:11:40.820 the federal government should be putting forward benchmarks
00:11:43.280 for safe reopening and lifting of federal restrictions
00:11:46.580 as it pertains to the border.
00:11:47.900 They can do that while at the same time
00:11:49.520 doing something that they've also completely failed on,
00:11:51.960 which is putting in place a system
00:11:54.540 to detect pathogens that are,
00:11:57.360 like, might have a significant impact on Canada,
00:12:00.540 like COVID variants of concern.
00:12:02.880 Why did, the COVID, the Delta variant,
00:12:05.260 that's what they're calling it, I believe, in India,
00:12:07.420 was detected in October.
00:12:09.680 And then they only banned flights from there,
00:12:12.540 what, about a month ago?
00:12:13.740 What is, like, how does that happen?
00:12:15.980 And so, it's just nonsensical.
00:12:18.900 I also actually condemn the, you know,
00:12:21.500 some of the senior level officials
00:12:23.020 that are giving the government advice on this.
00:12:25.540 They're so disconnected from reality.
00:12:27.160 But the buck stops with these ministers
00:12:28.900 and the prime minister who are living
00:12:31.780 by one different set of rules for themselves
00:12:34.440 than everybody else.
00:12:36.520 And I hope that people realize that,
00:12:38.320 that this is an entitled elitist system
00:12:42.400 from an out-of-touch government
00:12:43.720 and from a prime minister who thinks
00:12:45.340 it's more important to go to, you know,
00:12:47.640 to travel abroad when no one else can,
00:12:49.820 rather than fix the system first.
00:12:51.480 He should have done that.
00:12:52.180 He's making people pay tax dollars
00:12:54.640 so that he can stay in a bougie hotel
00:12:57.580 in Ottawa for optics.
00:13:00.700 If he's so committed to the hotel quarantine system,
00:13:03.220 maybe he should stay in one of those rooms
00:13:04.780 that don't have a lock
00:13:05.760 that other women have had to be subjected to.
00:13:07.980 If his security is so important,
00:13:09.380 maybe he could just fix the system for everybody.
00:13:12.040 Very well said.
00:13:13.080 Conservative health critic, Michelle Rempel-Garner.
00:13:15.360 Always a pleasure.
00:13:16.040 Thank you, Michelle.
00:13:17.220 Thank you.
00:13:18.020 I want to turn from the political side of this
00:13:20.380 to the legal side of this.
00:13:21.700 Last week, I was tied up for three days.
00:13:24.040 I say tied up.
00:13:24.780 I enjoy doing it.
00:13:25.760 And I wasn't nearly as tied up
00:13:26.980 as the people that were actually participating
00:13:28.880 in the Zoom call.
00:13:29.760 But in a federal court Zoom hearing,
00:13:32.200 as the constitutionality of the hotel quarantine
00:13:34.760 was being challenged,
00:13:36.580 there were a number of applicants,
00:13:37.820 most of them represented
00:13:38.940 by the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms,
00:13:41.280 but our friends at Rebel and Kian Bexty
00:13:44.000 were also putting their claims forward,
00:13:46.240 arguing that this federal hotel quarantine program
00:13:49.700 is not constitutional.
00:13:51.840 And also, basically, that it doesn't work.
00:13:54.720 The effectiveness, or lack thereof,
00:13:56.880 became very central to the hearing as well.
00:13:59.500 I want to bring in Sia Hassan,
00:14:01.320 who is a lawyer with the Justice Center
00:14:02.920 for Constitutional Freedoms
00:14:04.140 and was one of the two primary litigators
00:14:06.420 on this case for the JCCF.
00:14:09.000 Sia, thanks for coming on.
00:14:10.240 Great to talk to you.
00:14:11.320 Thank you so much for having me.
00:14:12.860 Now, we've seen an injunction on this question before.
00:14:16.260 This is really the first time
00:14:17.840 that in a full hearing on the merits,
00:14:20.440 we've had the constitutionality of this attested, isn't it?
00:14:24.460 That's correct.
00:14:25.240 Yes, the Justice Center brought an injunction hearing
00:14:28.500 where we were not successful,
00:14:30.540 but the judge found that there were serious issues
00:14:33.160 to be tried when it came to Section 7 and 9 of the Charter.
00:14:36.360 And then we were able to have the full hearing
00:14:39.620 on the merits of our charter arguments.
00:14:42.500 The premise of this program,
00:14:44.460 I know I've talked about it on the show in the past,
00:14:46.440 is that in January,
00:14:48.180 the government of Canada said,
00:14:49.680 we've got all these variants coming in,
00:14:51.380 our travel measures that we have in place now aren't working.
00:14:54.200 So we're going to force anyone who comes into the country by air
00:14:57.740 to stay in a hotel near the airport for three days to get a test.
00:15:02.380 And then at the end of that three days,
00:15:03.780 they can continue on home and complete their quarantine.
00:15:07.200 What's really the basis of your arguments?
00:15:09.580 And what is it that your applicants are actually fighting for?
00:15:13.480 We brought quite a,
00:15:15.100 we're challenging quite a few of the charter sections,
00:15:18.320 but really the main area is the detention.
00:15:21.400 So under Section 7, we have the right to liberty and security of person.
00:15:25.960 And under Section 9,
00:15:27.020 we have the right not to be arbitrarily detained.
00:15:29.800 And really the focus was on the fact that people that are forced
00:15:32.880 into these government-mandated hotels,
00:15:35.220 they're being detained against their will.
00:15:36.940 They are not going there voluntarily.
00:15:39.520 And of course, we raised the issue that once you're detained,
00:15:42.040 you're entitled to speak to counsel,
00:15:43.880 which is also a right that is being violated
00:15:45.920 during these quarantine hotel when this is going forward.
00:15:51.140 So those are some of the issues that we raised.
00:15:54.460 I was tuned in for the majority of the hearing.
00:15:57.460 And at one point, the federal government's lawyer was saying that,
00:16:01.100 well, it's not arbitrary because everyone is getting it to,
00:16:04.580 everyone's subjected to it.
00:16:06.300 And you have people that are coming into the country
00:16:09.160 that know this is going to happen.
00:16:10.880 Is the government admitting that this is detention
00:16:14.220 when they make that argument,
00:16:15.700 when they just focus on the arbitrary part?
00:16:17.520 No, I don't think they were admitting any part of the detention.
00:16:21.800 In fact, they argued that it was a frivolous argument.
00:16:24.880 But the argument, there's two parts to detention.
00:16:28.160 So first, you have to actually either be physically
00:16:30.340 or psychologically detained.
00:16:32.020 And we argued that once you're at the airport
00:16:34.080 and you're being mandated to go to these quarantine hotels
00:16:37.660 and or the quarantine facilities, you are detained.
00:16:40.760 And then the second part is that it has to be arbitrary.
00:16:43.600 And the arbitrary argument, there's quite a few arguments to it.
00:16:47.320 But one of them is the fact that there's only a small number of people,
00:16:51.560 actually, who are being subject to the quarantine hotels.
00:16:54.440 75% of the international travelers who come to Canada
00:16:57.840 are completely exempt from the quarantine hotel.
00:17:00.920 So their focus is only on 25% of the international travelers.
00:17:05.300 That in itself, we argued, was arbitrary.
00:17:08.040 The fact that the land travelers are being treated differently
00:17:10.760 than the air travelers, those types of things make the detention arbitrary.
00:17:15.320 At one point, when you talk about how few people of overall travelers
00:17:19.820 are subjected to this, one thought that comes to mind
00:17:21.940 is that a lot of people are simply not traveling
00:17:24.720 because they don't want to be subjected to this.
00:17:27.080 And it seems as though the government has put in place a lot of these measures,
00:17:31.280 not because the measures themselves work,
00:17:33.760 but because they're trying to make travel so convoluted
00:17:38.120 and so costly for people that they don't do it.
00:17:40.460 They're trying to discourage travel, it looks like.
00:17:42.780 And if that is, in fact, the case,
00:17:45.220 that's not a selling point on a constitutional defense for the government.
00:17:50.240 Because as I understand it,
00:17:51.960 any limitation of constitutional freedoms has to be very pointed
00:17:54.820 and very directly tied to the policy objective,
00:17:58.140 which, if it is just a part of discouraging it, it really isn't tied.
00:18:01.740 Well, the government is arguing that the reason for these measures
00:18:05.860 is to limit the importation of the variants.
00:18:09.820 But you're absolutely on point.
00:18:11.620 And one of the other arguments we made was the Section 6.1 argument,
00:18:15.200 which is your charter right to enter Canada freely
00:18:18.020 and be able to leave freely.
00:18:19.920 And when you put in place,
00:18:21.080 when the government puts in place measures
00:18:23.500 that prevent people from traveling
00:18:25.500 or makes it difficult for them to come back,
00:18:28.100 that violates their charter rights under Section 6.1,
00:18:30.960 because the measures are very restrictive
00:18:35.880 and they violate a lot of people to enter.
00:18:39.380 It just makes it a lot more difficult.
00:18:41.220 And they argue that that was also against the Section 6.1 of the charter.
00:18:45.460 Anyone who's ever followed any of these constitutional arguments in Canada
00:18:49.660 in any case knows that we, of course, have Section 1 of the charter,
00:18:53.360 which subjects all of the subsequent charter rights
00:18:55.680 to so-called reasonable limits.
00:18:58.040 And in a lot of contexts,
00:19:00.420 this means, I would fear,
00:19:01.920 that if the government can say the program's working,
00:19:04.660 a court could find that the limitation of freedoms would be limited.
00:19:08.460 Is that where you feel this case is headed,
00:19:11.460 where the court may concede,
00:19:13.040 yes, rights are being violated,
00:19:14.480 but the limitation is justified because of X, Y, Z,
00:19:18.700 when you're talking about the variance or importation risk and so on?
00:19:22.900 Well, we're hoping the court will not find that,
00:19:25.100 that they will find that these limits are not justified under Section 1.
00:19:29.020 But that's probably where things are going to turn.
00:19:32.140 And we were before the Chief Justice, Crampton,
00:19:35.120 and he was actually very concerned about the evidence.
00:19:37.340 And he was asking the Crown,
00:19:39.000 you know, where's the evidence for this
00:19:40.480 and where's the evidence for that?
00:19:41.760 So he was very alive to the issue.
00:19:43.600 And I take comfort in the fact that he was asking questions
00:19:47.660 and he wanted to know where the evidence was.
00:19:50.680 So I thought that was a good sign.
00:19:53.340 Yeah.
00:19:53.560 And one point that I found very interesting,
00:19:55.860 and the government lawyers did not really seem to have an answer for it,
00:19:59.740 was, and just for people that haven't come into the country under this,
00:20:03.100 you might not know this,
00:20:03.920 but you go to the hotel quarantine,
00:20:05.420 you get a COVID test.
00:20:06.700 At the end of your three days,
00:20:08.360 if your test is positive,
00:20:10.200 more often than not,
00:20:11.520 you still continue home
00:20:13.080 exactly as you would have
00:20:14.900 if your test came back negative
00:20:16.560 and you still go into 14-day quarantine
00:20:18.820 exactly as if your test was negative.
00:20:21.580 And in doing so,
00:20:23.020 the government has really made it
00:20:24.420 so there's not a substantive difference,
00:20:26.720 which makes me question,
00:20:28.080 and I would hope makes anyone question,
00:20:29.900 okay, well, what's the point of this all?
00:20:31.800 And the judge had asked,
00:20:33.060 I know, at a couple of points
00:20:34.500 for more information about that,
00:20:36.140 and the government didn't really seem to have the data
00:20:37.920 on how many people
00:20:38.840 have actually not been permitted to go right home,
00:20:41.340 even with a positive test result.
00:20:43.480 And, you know, at one point,
00:20:44.660 it seemed like the lawyer for the government of Canada
00:20:47.020 had said,
00:20:47.600 well, you know, if you know you're positive,
00:20:49.800 your mindset will be different
00:20:51.180 when you're in quarantine,
00:20:52.160 which, again, doesn't seem
00:20:53.380 like the most selling argument for them.
00:20:57.120 Definitely.
00:20:57.820 And that was, I mean,
00:20:58.800 I think they argued a lot of points,
00:21:00.900 but one of them was,
00:21:02.040 yes, the government is arguing
00:21:03.440 that if you know that you're positive,
00:21:05.380 then you will have a different mindset.
00:21:07.160 Well, the argument was,
00:21:08.240 where's the evidence for this?
00:21:09.680 It certainly wasn't in any of the affidavits.
00:21:11.780 It just, it was something
00:21:13.040 that one of the ATPN stated
00:21:14.860 in her cross-examination.
00:21:16.900 And so that was something that we challenged.
00:21:19.560 And certainly it doesn't appear
00:21:21.300 that they are collecting data
00:21:22.780 with respect to how many people
00:21:24.200 who test positive get to go home
00:21:26.220 versus who is being directed
00:21:27.740 to the quarantine facility.
00:21:29.900 Now, I know that this was, again,
00:21:32.280 a three-day-long hearing.
00:21:33.920 There were thousands and thousands
00:21:35.220 of pages of evidence.
00:21:37.120 It's entirely possible
00:21:38.500 that the program could end
00:21:40.600 if the government ends the program
00:21:42.040 before a decision comes from the court.
00:21:44.800 But if that happens,
00:21:45.940 is it still important in your eyes
00:21:47.620 that this be found unconstitutional?
00:21:50.560 Absolutely.
00:21:51.420 I think it's very important
00:21:52.880 because this is the first time
00:21:54.440 in post-charter history
00:21:55.960 where the government
00:21:56.980 is forcing people into quarantine,
00:22:00.080 essentially detaining people en masse.
00:22:02.860 And if this is found
00:22:04.800 to be constitutional,
00:22:06.200 I think it's going to be,
00:22:07.180 it's going to set
00:22:07.920 a very dangerous precedent
00:22:09.260 because moving forward,
00:22:10.880 the government can continue to do so.
00:22:13.440 Versus if the courts
00:22:14.360 put a stop to it now,
00:22:16.040 they will not be able
00:22:17.040 to use that later on
00:22:18.160 in other emergency contexts.
00:22:21.140 Yeah, and this is, I think,
00:22:23.100 a very important point, Sia,
00:22:24.380 because we know that, yes,
00:22:25.560 this is a once-in-a-lifetime problem
00:22:27.840 that we're dealing with now.
00:22:28.980 We certainly hope as far as COVID.
00:22:30.920 But the very nature
00:22:32.480 of the circumstances
00:22:33.880 under which governments
00:22:34.760 wish to suspend liberties,
00:22:36.260 which is situations of emergency,
00:22:38.360 are the circumstances
00:22:39.440 in which it's most important
00:22:40.700 to preserve and protect liberties.
00:22:42.820 I mean, the right to enter the country
00:22:44.180 without detention
00:22:44.940 is for the most part
00:22:46.640 not a right that is challenged
00:22:48.480 on a day-to-day basis
00:22:49.800 under normal circumstances.
00:22:51.140 So this idea
00:22:52.400 that an emergency
00:22:53.300 is a trump card
00:22:54.700 that you can use
00:22:55.420 to suspend the charter
00:22:56.360 is simply not accurate
00:22:58.200 and very dangerous
00:22:59.540 of a presumption
00:23:00.420 by the government, I'd say.
00:23:02.160 Absolutely.
00:23:02.960 And that's what we told
00:23:04.000 the Chief Justice
00:23:05.360 that it's exactly
00:23:06.700 during these times
00:23:07.760 the emergencies
00:23:08.460 when charter rights
00:23:10.120 are being violated.
00:23:11.260 So it's very important
00:23:12.200 for the courts
00:23:12.900 to be vigilant
00:23:13.620 and to be the gatekeepers
00:23:15.020 and ensure that the government
00:23:16.360 isn't violating our charts
00:23:18.580 arbitrarily.
00:23:21.860 So I know predictions
00:23:23.580 are very difficult.
00:23:24.760 You put your best foot forward,
00:23:26.320 you make the arguments,
00:23:27.240 you submit the evidence,
00:23:28.200 the Chief Justice has to rule.
00:23:30.140 What do you think
00:23:30.880 this case will really come down to
00:23:32.880 in the court's decision?
00:23:34.040 What do you think will be,
00:23:35.260 I guess,
00:23:35.700 the factor that sways
00:23:37.140 the decision
00:23:37.840 one way or the other?
00:23:39.780 It's really hard to tell
00:23:41.220 and I really can't predict.
00:23:42.700 But what I can say
00:23:43.920 is that the Chief Justice
00:23:45.340 was listening.
00:23:46.280 It was very clear
00:23:47.380 that he had read
00:23:48.220 everyone's material.
00:23:49.620 He had marked things up.
00:23:51.080 He was asking
00:23:51.620 a lot of intelligent questions
00:23:53.240 and he did tell all of us
00:23:55.540 that he was going to review
00:23:56.860 all of the affidavits
00:23:58.200 and the evidence in detail
00:23:59.640 and that we had given him
00:24:01.120 a lot to think about.
00:24:02.620 So I think that's all,
00:24:04.620 that's what we can ask
00:24:05.500 when we're having a hearing
00:24:06.540 to have a judge who listens
00:24:07.820 and who takes notes
00:24:09.280 and who asks questions.
00:24:10.560 And I think
00:24:11.060 that's always a positive sign.
00:24:13.120 Sia Hassan,
00:24:14.980 lawyer with the
00:24:15.780 Justice Centre
00:24:16.300 for Constitutional Freedoms.
00:24:17.600 A very big week last week
00:24:19.300 with three days
00:24:20.140 in federal court
00:24:21.140 arguing for the end
00:24:22.480 of the hotel quarantine plan.
00:24:23.780 So I hope you were able
00:24:24.860 to get some much needed
00:24:26.220 and much deserved rest afterwards.
00:24:27.900 But I appreciate you
00:24:28.840 joining me today, Sia.
00:24:29.780 Thank you.
00:24:30.320 Thank you.
00:24:30.800 Thank you for having me.
00:24:32.400 That was a very important case.
00:24:34.620 And it's funny,
00:24:35.200 I had,
00:24:35.720 after I was live tweeting
00:24:36.740 a lot of it,
00:24:37.260 I had someone respond
00:24:38.260 and say,
00:24:38.680 is the judge going to
00:24:39.440 come out with a decision today?
00:24:41.200 This was on Thursday
00:24:42.140 after the case had wrapped up.
00:24:44.100 And I said,
00:24:44.620 I certainly hope not
00:24:45.740 because if the judge
00:24:46.940 is coming out
00:24:48.240 with a decision
00:24:48.740 after, you know,
00:24:49.680 three days of non-stop arguments
00:24:51.660 and thousands of pages
00:24:52.660 of testimony,
00:24:53.720 that means he hasn't really
00:24:55.140 thought things through
00:24:56.240 all that much.
00:24:57.000 So if he just comes back
00:24:58.080 and says,
00:24:58.460 no, no, no,
00:24:58.840 it's no big deal.
00:24:59.760 I don't quite want that to happen.
00:25:01.120 But it is going to take a while.
00:25:02.500 And like I said to Sia,
00:25:03.940 it is entirely possible
00:25:05.460 that the decision
00:25:07.040 will come back
00:25:07.800 after the hotel quarantine plan
00:25:09.820 is already dead.
00:25:10.960 And I hope so.
00:25:11.560 I would love to see
00:25:12.180 the government
00:25:12.560 kill this program imminently
00:25:14.780 without needing a court
00:25:16.040 to tell them
00:25:16.560 it's unconstitutional.
00:25:18.000 But the caveat there
00:25:19.600 is that it is still important
00:25:20.940 to put on the record
00:25:22.160 that lack of constitutionality
00:25:24.420 because we see this
00:25:25.640 with the pandemic.
00:25:26.540 Every single measure
00:25:27.660 that governments have imposed
00:25:29.020 because of court backlog,
00:25:30.920 because of all the fines
00:25:31.960 that are being challenged,
00:25:33.340 the laws that are being challenged,
00:25:34.680 all of this,
00:25:35.440 there have not been
00:25:36.280 many opportunities
00:25:37.320 to actually have
00:25:38.400 these full constitutional hearings
00:25:39.920 in court.
00:25:40.680 So the idea
00:25:41.540 that the government
00:25:42.380 just has all of these measures
00:25:43.760 they're doing
00:25:44.260 that are untested
00:25:45.100 and when the next emergency
00:25:46.840 rolls around
00:25:47.520 they do them all again
00:25:48.360 and no one's challenging them
00:25:49.520 because they are moot
00:25:50.720 as they say
00:25:51.480 because oh well
00:25:52.100 the pandemic's over,
00:25:53.100 it's not a big deal.
00:25:54.300 We need to make sure
00:25:55.220 that we put in place
00:25:56.120 the jurisprudence
00:25:56.980 to prevent governments
00:25:58.640 from seizing
00:25:59.420 these rights and freedoms
00:26:01.100 without opposition
00:26:03.020 the next time
00:26:04.180 something comes around
00:26:05.260 that makes it tempting
00:26:06.480 for them to do that.
00:26:07.980 So my thanks
00:26:08.560 to Sia Hassan
00:26:09.640 and also to the Justice Center
00:26:11.020 for Constitutional Freedoms
00:26:12.420 for putting this forward.
00:26:14.460 We've got to take a break
00:26:15.320 when we come back
00:26:16.240 more of the Andrew Lawton Show
00:26:17.580 here on True North.
00:26:18.700 Stay tuned.
00:26:22.040 You're tuned in
00:26:23.240 to the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:26:28.620 Welcome back
00:26:29.480 to the Andrew Lawton Show
00:26:30.920 here on True North.
00:26:32.360 We have talked extensively
00:26:34.560 about Bill C-10.
00:26:36.540 This is the liberal government's bill
00:26:38.240 that will expand vastly
00:26:40.280 the regulatory purview
00:26:41.400 of the government
00:26:42.220 of the CRTC
00:26:43.100 to include online content
00:26:45.280 everything from Netflix
00:26:46.720 and whatever the other
00:26:48.180 Netflix alternatives are
00:26:49.460 Disney Plus
00:26:50.180 to what you post
00:26:51.760 on Twitter
00:26:52.400 and Instagram
00:26:53.080 and TikTok
00:26:53.820 and any of these
00:26:55.040 other myriad platforms
00:26:56.560 which as much as I try
00:26:58.300 I can't necessarily
00:26:59.440 keep up with.
00:27:00.620 The major problem
00:27:01.820 with this is
00:27:02.320 that the government
00:27:02.920 has been behaving
00:27:04.120 to pass Bill C-10
00:27:05.900 in a way that demonstrates
00:27:07.620 exactly why government
00:27:09.160 cannot be trusted
00:27:10.160 to regulate the internet
00:27:11.860 and what you post on it.
00:27:13.520 For starters
00:27:14.200 we've had Stephen Gilbeau
00:27:15.720 the Heritage Minister
00:27:16.660 call anyone who is
00:27:18.160 criticizing this bill
00:27:19.120 a conspiracy theorist
00:27:20.360 and an extremist
00:27:21.380 and accuse the conservatives
00:27:22.920 of fake news
00:27:23.800 and then you have
00:27:25.260 the unwillingness
00:27:26.440 of the government
00:27:27.360 to entertain debate
00:27:28.920 on this.
00:27:29.380 We're talking about
00:27:30.100 a very sizable bill
00:27:31.800 a very significant bill
00:27:33.400 and a very complex bill
00:27:34.680 and the Liberals
00:27:35.720 want to ram it through
00:27:37.080 before the summer
00:27:38.140 even at the cost
00:27:39.820 of debating the bill
00:27:41.060 more extensively.
00:27:42.600 This is exactly
00:27:43.600 what happened
00:27:44.420 in the House of Commons
00:27:45.540 this week.
00:27:46.340 The Liberals
00:27:46.980 backed by the Bloc Québécois
00:27:48.900 passed what can be
00:27:50.160 best characterized
00:27:51.220 as a gag order
00:27:52.900 on Parliament
00:27:54.000 cutting short debate
00:27:55.380 on Bill C-10
00:27:56.360 so they can just
00:27:57.760 get on with it
00:27:58.500 and get the bill passed
00:27:59.960 before the House of Commons
00:28:01.260 recesses for the summer
00:28:02.420 in just a couple
00:28:03.800 of weeks time.
00:28:04.960 Now this is something
00:28:05.840 that the Liberals
00:28:06.500 are no doubt couching
00:28:07.580 as just oh it's a procedural
00:28:08.900 matter here and there
00:28:10.040 but they are trying
00:28:11.180 to stifle
00:28:12.080 and shut down debate.
00:28:13.980 They know that
00:28:14.760 the longer Bill C-10
00:28:16.260 is debated
00:28:17.000 the more Canadians
00:28:17.800 will see exactly
00:28:18.660 why it is
00:28:19.260 that the Liberals
00:28:19.860 shouldn't be trusted
00:28:21.140 to regulate the internet.
00:28:22.880 So here's my point.
00:28:24.280 Why should Canadians
00:28:25.160 be expected
00:28:26.140 to endorse
00:28:27.300 government regulation
00:28:28.760 of the internet
00:28:29.600 and internet content
00:28:30.600 when that same government
00:28:32.200 doesn't even want
00:28:33.360 a debate on the bill?
00:28:35.320 What else are they
00:28:35.960 going to shut down?
00:28:37.340 This is the,
00:28:37.860 and again,
00:28:38.360 I'm not saying
00:28:38.860 Stephen Gilbeau
00:28:39.460 is personally going to be
00:28:40.420 sitting over the big
00:28:41.100 control panel saying
00:28:42.100 well you know
00:28:42.900 that Andrew Lawton guy
00:28:43.780 I don't like that tweet
00:28:44.600 so maybe we'll zap
00:28:45.620 that tweet of his
00:28:46.440 but the problem is
00:28:47.660 the government
00:28:48.100 has a tendency
00:28:49.060 to redefine things
00:28:51.180 in ways that
00:28:52.060 are only suitable
00:28:53.360 to them.
00:28:54.440 So when it comes down
00:28:55.380 to deciding
00:28:56.040 who gets an exemption
00:28:57.080 for being a media
00:28:58.000 organization
00:28:58.500 and who doesn't
00:28:59.460 I do believe
00:29:00.320 the government
00:29:00.800 is going to make
00:29:01.560 a judgment call
00:29:02.360 that is going to
00:29:03.620 exclude independent
00:29:04.700 media outlets
00:29:05.480 like True North.
00:29:06.800 When social media
00:29:07.960 companies have to
00:29:08.840 develop their own
00:29:09.520 policies on what
00:29:10.360 can be posted
00:29:11.020 I know that those
00:29:12.420 policies are going
00:29:13.360 to be heavily shaped
00:29:14.520 by a liberal government
00:29:16.020 whose approach
00:29:16.800 is not generally
00:29:18.460 conducive to
00:29:19.220 free speech
00:29:19.900 and so many
00:29:21.780 of the intricacies
00:29:22.580 of this
00:29:23.020 the liberals
00:29:23.480 have said
00:29:23.920 well that's all
00:29:25.100 going to be
00:29:25.400 in the regulations
00:29:26.240 that's just going
00:29:26.980 to come from
00:29:27.820 the CRTC
00:29:28.500 we've just got
00:29:29.120 to pass the bill
00:29:30.000 remember when
00:29:31.060 Nancy Pelosi
00:29:31.760 had made that
00:29:32.720 comment about
00:29:33.700 I think it was
00:29:34.220 a budget or a
00:29:34.940 stimulus
00:29:35.240 she said
00:29:35.620 you have to
00:29:36.080 pass the bill
00:29:36.700 to find out
00:29:37.320 what's in it
00:29:37.980 well that's
00:29:38.740 Stephen Gilbeau's
00:29:39.500 approach to
00:29:40.000 Bill C-10
00:29:40.620 you've got to
00:29:41.360 pass the bill
00:29:41.940 to find out
00:29:42.600 what the regulations
00:29:43.460 are going to be
00:29:44.360 so this is why
00:29:46.520 conservatives
00:29:47.200 and to be fair
00:29:48.500 the NDP as well
00:29:49.700 why conservatives
00:29:51.040 and the NDP
00:29:51.620 are so insistent
00:29:53.500 on debating this
00:29:54.520 and on discussing this
00:29:55.460 because the liberals
00:29:56.200 are leaving a lot
00:29:57.200 off the books
00:29:58.540 they're leaving a lot
00:29:59.420 out of the text
00:30:00.260 of the bill
00:30:00.840 and that is going
00:30:02.200 to be as that
00:30:03.060 saying goes
00:30:03.760 the devil
00:30:04.420 that lives
00:30:05.160 in the details
00:30:06.260 so how dare you
00:30:08.460 claim on one hand
00:30:09.860 that you stand up
00:30:10.640 for free speech
00:30:11.420 and that anyone
00:30:11.880 who says you don't
00:30:12.720 stand up for free speech
00:30:13.700 as a lying extremist
00:30:15.100 conspiracy theorist
00:30:16.160 on one hand
00:30:16.920 well on the other hand
00:30:18.200 literally shutting down
00:30:20.140 the debate
00:30:20.720 around that very bill
00:30:22.400 that you say
00:30:23.040 is not going to be
00:30:24.040 an affront to free speech
00:30:25.240 you can't make
00:30:26.560 this stuff up
00:30:27.780 and if you could
00:30:28.820 the liberals would call it
00:30:29.720 fake news anyway
00:30:30.600 but here's the problem
00:30:32.040 the liberals are now
00:30:33.480 going to get this passed
00:30:35.020 there is a hope
00:30:36.140 that people have
00:30:36.980 to hold out on
00:30:37.820 that the senate
00:30:38.800 will either drag
00:30:40.100 its heels on it
00:30:40.840 as senators
00:30:41.320 are wont to do
00:30:42.480 or perhaps
00:30:43.560 that the liberals
00:30:44.140 will not actually
00:30:45.500 get it through
00:30:46.160 the senate
00:30:47.020 perhaps even senators
00:30:48.060 might have some issues
00:30:48.980 with it
00:30:49.300 being the sober minded
00:30:50.900 second thinkers
00:30:51.980 that they often tell us
00:30:53.080 are so critical
00:30:53.720 in the parliamentary process
00:30:55.700 but regardless
00:30:57.000 the liberals
00:30:57.480 are more interested
00:30:58.280 in ramming this through
00:30:59.680 than they are
00:31:00.980 in putting together
00:31:01.920 a bill that makes sense
00:31:03.260 and achieves
00:31:03.980 what they say
00:31:05.120 are their policy objectives
00:31:06.980 which again
00:31:07.720 they're couching it
00:31:08.420 in all great terms
00:31:09.220 oh we just want to
00:31:09.940 protect Canadian content
00:31:11.020 and make the big players
00:31:12.440 pay like the Netflix's
00:31:13.900 and the Facebook's
00:31:14.720 but it isn't those folks
00:31:16.480 who are the most
00:31:17.040 disproportionately targeted
00:31:18.400 it's every Canadian
00:31:19.860 that has been led
00:31:20.600 to believe the internet
00:31:21.580 is as close to
00:31:23.100 an open platform
00:31:24.180 and an open forum
00:31:25.300 as one can find
00:31:26.760 and the liberals
00:31:28.140 are threatening that
00:31:29.120 not by big tech companies
00:31:30.680 but by their own hand
00:31:32.560 and forcing big tech companies
00:31:34.300 to be the enforcers of it
00:31:36.060 and that they are
00:31:37.160 shutting down debate
00:31:38.160 on this
00:31:38.600 once again proves
00:31:39.800 why they are
00:31:40.640 in no position
00:31:41.740 to be calling the shots
00:31:43.400 on what can be posted online
00:31:45.020 which is precisely
00:31:46.180 the regulatory regime
00:31:47.460 they are setting up
00:31:48.520 and just before I take a break
00:31:50.580 I have to just draw attention
00:31:51.920 to this story
00:31:52.500 so I don't know
00:31:52.960 if you've been following it
00:31:53.880 but in Nigeria
00:31:55.180 they are having
00:31:56.400 a bit of a back and forth
00:31:57.480 with Twitter
00:31:58.240 where Twitter banned
00:32:00.080 the Nigerian president
00:32:01.160 from Twitter
00:32:02.040 and then Nigeria
00:32:02.900 just banned Twitter
00:32:03.940 from Nigeria
00:32:04.760 and this has again
00:32:06.720 been a conflict
00:32:07.740 that has revealed
00:32:08.920 Twitter's inconsistency
00:32:10.420 because they stand up
00:32:11.380 and start talking
00:32:12.280 about the importance
00:32:12.980 of free speech
00:32:13.940 and open dialogue
00:32:14.700 and all of that
00:32:15.320 even though they're the ones
00:32:16.360 sitting at the censorship switch
00:32:17.860 and then this happened
00:32:19.520 the Canadian government's
00:32:20.660 diplomatic mission
00:32:21.700 to Nigeria
00:32:22.540 alongside those
00:32:23.540 of the European Union
00:32:24.620 Ireland, Norway,
00:32:25.740 the UK and the US
00:32:26.800 conveyed their
00:32:28.080 quote
00:32:28.480 disappointment
00:32:29.420 unquote
00:32:30.260 with Nigeria's announcement
00:32:31.860 suspending Twitter
00:32:32.640 and proposing registration
00:32:34.000 requirements
00:32:34.720 for other social media
00:32:36.300 we strongly support
00:32:38.220 the fundamental human right
00:32:39.540 of free expression
00:32:40.300 and access to information
00:32:41.880 as a pillar of democracy
00:32:43.460 as around the world
00:32:45.140 and these rights
00:32:45.960 apply online
00:32:47.340 as well as offline
00:32:48.880 banning systems of expression
00:32:50.760 is not the answer
00:32:51.740 so just go back
00:32:53.000 we convey our disappointment
00:32:54.400 over proposing
00:32:56.320 registration requirements
00:32:58.300 for other social media
00:32:59.940 they are literally
00:33:01.820 pushing forward
00:33:03.000 a bill
00:33:03.660 that does
00:33:04.540 exactly that
00:33:05.940 and they had
00:33:06.840 the audacity
00:33:07.560 the Canadian government
00:33:08.460 to join this statement
00:33:09.620 to join this statement
00:33:11.120 saying that they condemn
00:33:12.240 a government effort
00:33:13.600 in Nigeria
00:33:14.140 to regulate
00:33:14.800 social media platforms
00:33:15.980 I have to assume
00:33:17.100 Canada didn't write this
00:33:18.320 that the EU
00:33:18.960 Norway
00:33:19.400 UK
00:33:19.840 US
00:33:20.240 did it
00:33:20.700 and they sent it to Canada
00:33:22.180 not knowing about
00:33:23.060 Bill C-10
00:33:23.680 and Canada's just like
00:33:25.100 okay
00:33:26.600 let's just
00:33:27.240 let's just sign this
00:33:29.080 and send it back
00:33:29.740 and hope they don't
00:33:30.380 don't look too much
00:33:31.620 they've literally
00:33:32.740 signed a letter
00:33:33.780 condemning
00:33:34.620 exactly what
00:33:35.660 they are doing
00:33:36.840 so perhaps
00:33:38.020 Canada and Nigeria
00:33:39.040 can team up
00:33:40.220 to do the
00:33:40.580 retaliatory statement
00:33:41.620 to Twitter on this
00:33:42.920 in any case
00:33:43.400 we've got to take
00:33:44.020 a quick break
00:33:44.820 we will come back
00:33:45.540 to close things out
00:33:46.400 in just a couple of moments
00:33:47.640 here on
00:33:48.220 The Andrew Lawton Show
00:33:49.120 stay with me
00:33:49.940 you're tuned in
00:33:52.400 to The Andrew Lawton Show
00:33:53.980 Welcome back
00:33:57.500 to The Andrew Lawton Show
00:33:58.980 I want to close
00:33:59.740 things out today
00:34:00.920 on a somewhat
00:34:01.800 more reflective note
00:34:03.560 I spoke in
00:34:05.000 the previous episode
00:34:06.040 of this program
00:34:06.680 about John A. Macdonald
00:34:08.240 and the cancel culture
00:34:09.240 mobs
00:34:09.720 attempts to
00:34:11.040 erase him
00:34:12.060 from history
00:34:12.780 or rebrand him
00:34:13.940 as a villain
00:34:15.100 rather than
00:34:15.800 a hero of Canada
00:34:16.660 and we talked about
00:34:17.400 this in the context
00:34:18.300 of John A. Macdonald
00:34:20.120 being defended
00:34:20.900 by Alberta
00:34:21.860 Premier Jason Kenney
00:34:23.020 at a time
00:34:23.520 when there are
00:34:24.240 very few people
00:34:24.920 willing to
00:34:25.580 stick their neck out
00:34:26.400 and defend
00:34:26.920 John A. Macdonald
00:34:28.340 which is in and of itself
00:34:29.280 a dangerous product
00:34:30.400 of our time
00:34:31.060 and I'm insistent
00:34:33.400 when I've talked
00:34:34.160 about this with people
00:34:35.060 on the point
00:34:36.100 that average
00:34:37.160 ordinary people
00:34:38.240 either don't care
00:34:39.540 about this
00:34:40.360 or certainly
00:34:41.520 don't agree
00:34:42.800 with the cancel mob
00:34:44.500 the number of people
00:34:45.900 if you were to poll
00:34:46.640 average citizens
00:34:47.600 who have a negative view
00:34:49.020 of John A. Macdonald
00:34:49.860 is probably quite minimal
00:34:51.020 but those holding
00:34:52.000 this minority view
00:34:53.420 tend to dominate
00:34:54.280 a majority
00:34:55.220 in academia
00:34:56.620 and in media
00:34:58.040 and increasingly
00:34:59.040 it looks like
00:34:59.820 in the political class
00:35:01.280 well yesterday
00:35:03.240 another statue
00:35:04.500 came down
00:35:05.560 that of Egerton Ryerson
00:35:07.080 outside Ryerson University
00:35:08.900 there was a time
00:35:10.380 when this would have been
00:35:11.300 a lead story
00:35:12.180 on this show
00:35:13.160 that a statue
00:35:13.800 of a historic figure
00:35:14.880 came down
00:35:15.580 it's not anymore
00:35:17.000 and when I saw
00:35:17.960 the tweets
00:35:18.560 of this statue
00:35:19.380 on the ground
00:35:20.180 my first response
00:35:21.640 was
00:35:22.160 oh
00:35:23.060 I thought
00:35:24.140 it was already down
00:35:24.880 and that was
00:35:26.260 basically it
00:35:26.880 I know it had been
00:35:27.400 defaced a few days
00:35:28.680 earlier
00:35:29.000 I knew it had been
00:35:29.820 the subject
00:35:30.600 of ongoing protest
00:35:31.800 and condemnation
00:35:32.680 locally
00:35:33.120 in my view
00:35:34.080 it was only a matter
00:35:35.000 of time
00:35:35.360 before this statue
00:35:36.260 was on the ground
00:35:37.420 a couple of hours
00:35:38.180 later
00:35:38.540 it was decapitated
00:35:40.640 and I have no doubt
00:35:42.220 that activists
00:35:42.740 will move on
00:35:43.420 to the next statue
00:35:44.320 now
00:35:44.660 as I've said
00:35:45.220 time and time again
00:35:46.180 this group
00:35:47.140 is not interested
00:35:47.960 in building anything
00:35:49.060 they are only
00:35:49.840 interested in destroying
00:35:51.100 destroying physical
00:35:52.660 reminders of a past era
00:35:54.120 and also destroying
00:35:55.420 memories of a past era
00:35:57.120 and by extension
00:35:57.940 the lessons
00:35:58.520 we are to take
00:35:59.600 from these periods
00:36:00.520 in history
00:36:01.120 it won't be long
00:36:02.980 before Ryerson
00:36:04.080 is facing a serious
00:36:05.940 push to change
00:36:07.340 the name of the school
00:36:08.600 this will continue
00:36:10.460 more statues
00:36:11.300 will come down
00:36:12.060 more historic figures
00:36:13.120 names will be stripped
00:36:14.000 from schools
00:36:14.960 and parks
00:36:15.620 and any edifices
00:36:16.880 whatsoever
00:36:17.440 and people
00:36:18.720 that say
00:36:19.360 it doesn't matter
00:36:20.400 people who say
00:36:22.340 it's not a big deal
00:36:23.320 and it's not worth
00:36:24.100 fighting for
00:36:24.740 will find eventually
00:36:25.840 they have nothing
00:36:26.680 left to defend
00:36:27.800 and that's the reason
00:36:29.620 I want to tell people
00:36:30.920 to pay attention
00:36:31.680 a lot of these things
00:36:32.600 that seem fringe
00:36:33.860 become increasingly
00:36:34.880 mainstreamed
00:36:36.180 and I'll tell you
00:36:36.960 a story about this
00:36:37.680 back in 2010
00:36:38.680 I was involved
00:36:39.640 in a national speaking
00:36:40.840 tour by Ann Coulter
00:36:42.560 and at the time
00:36:43.960 the campus mob
00:36:45.460 mentality was starting
00:36:46.700 to ramp up
00:36:47.480 as you may remember
00:36:48.620 from that pivotal moment
00:36:49.840 in Ottawa University
00:36:51.060 when Ann was supposed
00:36:52.120 to be speaking
00:36:52.680 and protesters
00:36:53.960 had kind of taken over
00:36:55.260 and made it so dangerous
00:36:57.200 that Ann Coulter
00:36:57.920 could not safely proceed
00:36:59.360 with the talk
00:37:00.020 and it had to be cancelled
00:37:01.080 but two other talks
00:37:02.720 went on without a hitch
00:37:03.960 the University of Western Ontario
00:37:05.480 had one heckler
00:37:06.960 for one moment
00:37:07.760 who got upset his piece
00:37:08.920 and sat down
00:37:09.620 and then the University of Calgary
00:37:11.440 where she spoke
00:37:12.140 and they had said
00:37:13.200 hey it looks like
00:37:14.060 there's a lot of interest
00:37:14.840 in this
00:37:15.140 do you want a bigger room
00:37:16.120 and that was free speech
00:37:18.660 people that didn't like it
00:37:19.680 could boycott it
00:37:20.460 people that liked it
00:37:21.280 could go there
00:37:21.860 and people who are curious
00:37:23.120 could listen
00:37:23.760 that event would not happen
00:37:26.340 in 2021
00:37:27.360 and there was a run
00:37:28.640 for a couple of years
00:37:29.460 before in-person events
00:37:30.620 were prohibited
00:37:31.200 at which point
00:37:32.520 if a speech went on
00:37:33.860 without being interrupted
00:37:35.160 that became newsworthy
00:37:37.020 but a speech being cancelled
00:37:38.880 a venue being shut down
00:37:40.520 a fire alarm being pulled
00:37:41.960 these stories
00:37:42.740 were no longer news
00:37:44.240 and all of the people
00:37:45.820 that said that wasn't
00:37:46.640 the hill to die on
00:37:47.400 well now it's statues
00:37:48.500 and if you don't stand up
00:37:49.420 for statues
00:37:50.000 and history
00:37:50.960 and historic figures
00:37:52.000 it will move on
00:37:53.200 to something else
00:37:54.360 and a lot of people
00:37:55.820 in politics
00:37:56.480 and media
00:37:57.060 and academia
00:37:57.740 who don't believe this
00:37:59.360 but are too afraid
00:38:00.520 to speak up
00:38:01.360 you have to get over it
00:38:02.800 and speak up
00:38:03.760 because the mob
00:38:05.120 that seeks to destroy
00:38:06.340 to shut down discourse
00:38:07.520 to tear things down
00:38:08.580 are never going to stop
00:38:10.400 at statues
00:38:11.080 they will just move on
00:38:12.540 to the next thing
00:38:13.360 and it seems like
00:38:14.080 fewer and fewer people
00:38:15.180 are willing to give them
00:38:16.840 any opposition
00:38:17.600 and I'm not talking
00:38:18.460 about armed conflict
00:38:19.440 I'm not talking
00:38:19.980 about violence
00:38:20.560 I'm talking about
00:38:21.520 ideological opposition
00:38:22.820 when these statues
00:38:24.220 get taken down
00:38:25.100 and someone says
00:38:26.300 we have no intention
00:38:27.320 of putting it back up
00:38:28.320 you are saying
00:38:29.400 that they are right
00:38:30.460 you are saying
00:38:31.360 that they did you a favor
00:38:32.480 that you hadn't gotten around
00:38:33.680 to taking it down
00:38:34.440 and they've done
00:38:35.420 the duty for you
00:38:36.700 they should build it
00:38:38.060 they should build it better
00:38:39.160 they should build it
00:38:40.280 in a way
00:38:40.680 that makes it
00:38:41.340 a beacon on the hill
00:38:42.680 because that is what
00:38:43.880 Canada is
00:38:44.780 a product of its history
00:38:46.920 we've got to wrap things up
00:38:48.600 my thanks to all of you
00:38:49.820 for coming on the show today
00:38:50.980 we'll talk to you soon
00:38:52.100 this is Canada's
00:38:53.080 most irreverent talk show
00:38:54.400 thank you
00:38:55.120 God bless
00:38:55.620 and good day to you all
00:38:56.640 thanks for listening
00:38:57.760 to the Andrew Lawton Show
00:38:58.960 support the program
00:39:00.020 by donating to True North
00:39:01.260 at www.tnc.news
00:39:04.420 CORON recommended it toUSS
00:39:07.680 it's everywhere
00:39:08.180 it seems incredible
00:39:09.160 what's going on
00:39:10.100 and you're a little bit
00:39:10.400 if your husband
00:39:10.800 it's your plate
00:39:11.640 it's your relationship
00:39:12.100 it's your plate
00:39:13.700 it's your building
00:39:14.240 it's your schedule
00:39:15.140 it's your legacy
00:39:15.240 you fürs
00:39:16.060 it's your reach
00:39:17.600 mine
00:39:17.860 it's your tutor
00:39:18.460 it's your buddy
00:39:19.080 you
00:39:19.680 it's your buddy
00:39:19.760 it's your buddy
00:39:20.580 it's your boss
00:39:20.600 your Scout
00:39:21.680 you
00:39:21.820 it's Mr.
00:39:22.280 Whilst
00:39:22.640 it's true
00:39:23.780 you
00:39:24.080 you
00:39:24.800 are
00:39:24.980 it's your factory
00:39:26.320 it's your behalf
00:39:27.160 it's którym
00:39:27.740 you
00:39:28.340 you
00:39:28.860 It's yourja
00:39:29.280 you
00:39:29.740 you
00:39:30.480 know
00:39:31.400 it's your
00:39:31.540 사랑
00:39:31.880 and
00:39:32.340 you