Juno News - Mask Misdirection

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.740 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.980 Coming up, Chrystia Freeland's Mask Theatre, Justin Trudeau's Fake Quarantine Hotel,

00:00:18.120 and the Liberals' shutdown debate to ram through Bill C-10.

00:00:23.680 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:30.000 Oh, I didn't know we were on. Hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:00:40.340 Hi, welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show, Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show here on True North.

00:00:46.460 I'm so sorry you caught me off guard. I was all masked and ready to go.

00:00:50.620 I always wear a mask. You're never going to catch me without one.

00:00:53.180 It's, I just, you know, don't worry about that.

00:00:55.960 Wait, I'm starting to sound like Chrystia Freeland, aren't I?

00:00:58.040 Oh, yes. Forgive this little bit of fun at Chrystia Freeland's expense.

00:01:02.880 A couple of times now, she's been caught just putting on a mask at that exact moment

00:01:07.500 when it is politically convenient for the sake of optics to do it.

00:01:12.120 The first was this little video clip of a press conference.

00:01:15.620 All right. Welcome to today's press conference.

00:01:40.180 We will now hear from the Deputy Prime Minister.

00:01:46.780 Okay. Thank you very much.

00:01:49.020 Oh, what do you know? Put it on at the last second just to take it right off

00:01:53.000 in a performative act of mask virtue signaling.

00:01:56.700 And then a couple of days later, she's posing for this big group photo

00:02:00.980 outside the G7 Finance Minister's meeting.

00:02:03.460 And, oh, what do you know? She's the only one masked.

00:02:06.560 Everyone else is unmasked.

00:02:07.760 But then you look at some of the other pictures that weren't used

00:02:11.160 that were circulating on Twitter,

00:02:13.120 and you see moments before the picture is taken,

00:02:16.260 she is scrambling to put on her mask

00:02:18.540 just to make it look like she's always wearing it.

00:02:21.840 Well, if that isn't just performative theatrical nonsense,

00:02:26.040 I don't know what is.

00:02:27.560 Now, at first, I find it ridiculous to pretend to be wearing it

00:02:32.960 only to take it off,

00:02:34.500 to make it look like you were wearing it the whole time.

00:02:36.900 It's absolutely absurd.

00:02:38.480 But even then, at this point in the pandemic,

00:02:40.380 when you are in England, a country in which most people are fully vaccinated,

00:02:44.200 you yourself have been partially vaccinated,

00:02:46.660 to be the only world leader and dignitary wearing a mask

00:02:50.620 outside while socially distanced

00:02:53.000 is kind of a decent reflection of where Canada is right now.

00:02:57.980 She's not fully vaccinated.

00:02:59.960 She is, like most Canadians, 1.00

00:03:01.860 still forced to wear a mask when she goes out.

00:03:04.540 And she will have to, if she follows the rules,

00:03:06.980 and we'll talk about this a little bit more,

00:03:08.620 hotel quarantine when she gets back

00:03:10.940 and then do a 14-day quarantine.

00:03:12.960 So the Canadian inferiority, 0.97

00:03:14.840 as far as the COVID situation compared to elsewhere in the world,

00:03:18.280 was on full display when Chrystia Freeland posed for that picture.

00:03:21.940 And you see her in other photos from the G7

00:03:25.060 and other footage when she's meeting with her counterparts and her colleagues.

00:03:28.180 They're all living life as normal.

00:03:30.240 She is the lone mask wearer in a lot of situations. 0.66

00:03:34.740 And this theatrical display with the mask is really not fooling anyone.

00:03:39.380 And it actually makes me a little bit frustrated

00:03:41.800 because it means that Canadian lawmakers

00:03:43.880 are really hell-bent on creating this idea

00:03:47.420 of a new normal that is very far removed from the old normal

00:03:52.320 that we've all been hoping our government would let us go back to.

00:03:56.380 And even use the word let there

00:03:57.980 sends a bit of a chill down my liberty-loving spine.

00:04:01.960 And I know these are silly things to poke fun at here.

00:04:05.540 And I've had a couple of people say,

00:04:06.720 well, is this really the biggest thing going on?

00:04:08.740 Is this the biggest thing to criticize the liberals for?

00:04:10.980 And it's not that it's the biggest thing.

00:04:13.580 The point is that the little things tend to matter

00:04:16.340 when they're part of a bigger pattern.

00:04:18.780 And in this case, that pattern is the liberal government

00:04:21.200 gaslighting Canadians into thinking that this is a normal way to live

00:04:25.300 and a normal way to behave.

00:04:27.680 Chrystia Freeland is not the only person over in the UK right now.

00:04:31.280 Justin Trudeau will be joining later this week.

00:04:33.460 Mark Garneau was there a couple of weeks ago.

00:04:35.660 This is one of the biggest multilateral events

00:04:38.060 to take place in person this year.

00:04:40.120 And the first, in fact, that Canada has participated in

00:04:43.420 in quite a while, as I understand it.

00:04:45.480 And the government has been extolling the virtues

00:04:47.580 of in-person multilateral diplomacy.

00:04:50.260 And by the way, I agree with it.

00:04:51.980 Certain things you cannot replicate on a Zoom screen,

00:04:55.520 especially in a diplomatic context.

00:04:57.960 But the problem is that Canadians like you and like me

00:05:01.220 are still being told any travel we want to do

00:05:04.220 isn't all that important.

00:05:05.840 We shouldn't be leaving the country, but they can. 0.98

00:05:08.700 And politicians are, by the way, exempt from quarantine.

00:05:12.580 They're exempt from hotel quarantine.

00:05:14.160 But Justin Trudeau is choosing to do a hotel quarantine

00:05:18.440 just to prove the point that this is the way

00:05:20.920 we should all be doing things.

00:05:22.720 Except there's a problem.

00:05:24.280 One of the restrictions the federal government put in place

00:05:26.940 was to ensure that international flights

00:05:29.780 could only enter the country through four airports.

00:05:32.260 And it was hotels around those four airports,

00:05:35.340 Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver,

00:05:37.820 that had to be converted to these government-approved accommodations.

00:05:42.600 Well, there aren't any in Ottawa,

00:05:44.380 which is where Justin Trudeau's plane is going to be flying into.

00:05:47.700 So just to prove that Trudeau is willing to play by the rules,

00:05:51.000 they're taking over an Ottawa hotel

00:05:52.760 and turning it into a government quarantine facility

00:05:56.180 that Justin Trudeau and his handlers and other staff

00:05:59.540 and even some media will have to stay at.

00:06:01.960 But it's theatrical.

00:06:03.160 It's fake.

00:06:03.700 It's not a real quarantine hotel.

00:06:06.300 It's just being done to appease the peasants, 0.69

00:06:09.560 which is so central to the government's insistence

00:06:12.220 that this is all how a normal functioning society

00:06:15.080 is supposed to work.

00:06:16.640 I want to talk about this with Michelle Rempel-Garner,

00:06:19.120 who says that the hotel quarantine in Ottawa is not enough.

00:06:22.700 She joins me on the line now.

00:06:24.340 Michelle, good to talk to you.

00:06:25.380 Thanks for coming on today.

00:06:27.340 Likewise.

00:06:27.740 Thanks for having me.

00:06:28.440 So your motion, which you put before the House of Commons,

00:06:32.120 was to force Justin Trudeau and his delegation

00:06:34.380 to quarantine at one of his designated hotel quarantine sites

00:06:38.760 that every other Canadian's been subjected to,

00:06:41.320 rather than this special Ottawa hotel arrangement

00:06:44.760 that's being set up.

00:06:46.180 When push comes to shove, why does it matter

00:06:48.100 if he's going through the motions

00:06:49.260 and quarantining in a hotel upon return?

00:06:53.340 Oh, let me count the ways, Andrew.

00:06:55.240 First of all, there are tens of thousands of Canadians

00:06:58.400 who are separated from loved ones by border restrictions,

00:07:03.300 and they can't afford the quarantine hotel system, number one.

00:07:09.100 Number two, there have been reports of sexual assaults at these hotels.

00:07:13.500 There have been reports of COVID-19 outbreaks,

00:07:16.720 and the government's own panel of scientists

00:07:20.140 has said that this program should be scrapped.

00:07:23.740 So, you know, the elitism of,

00:07:27.720 well, I'm not going to stay at the regular hotel.

00:07:31.460 I need to shut down an Ottawa area hotel to do this.

00:07:34.440 It's ridiculous.

00:07:36.340 It's theatre at the taxpayer expense,

00:07:39.500 and I just think it's probably one of the most bourgeois things

00:07:44.720 that he's done.

00:07:46.220 I had the department officials at Health Committee today.

00:07:49.820 I encourage you to have a look at that.

00:07:51.740 I asked a couple of the deputy minister-level folks,

00:07:57.380 well, you know, what's different about the prime minister's security

00:08:00.480 as opposed to a woman who's allegedly been sexually assaulted

00:08:03.860 at a quarantine hotel?

00:08:05.840 And their response was just so removed from reality

00:08:10.680 and actually disgusting.

00:08:14.400 The prime minister should not be travelling

00:08:16.340 if he's not going to stay at a quarantine hotel

00:08:18.980 like everybody else,

00:08:20.200 or he should scrap the program,

00:08:21.900 which he should have done a long time ago.

00:08:23.880 Yeah, this is the government that famously said back in 2015

00:08:27.980 when first elected that it was going to be evidence-driven,

00:08:31.000 unlike those conservatives.

00:08:31.960 We're going to listen to the evidence and listen to the science,

00:08:34.300 and time and time again,

00:08:35.860 when the so-called science doesn't align with their policy objectives,

00:08:39.660 there's always a reason for why they aren't following it.

00:08:42.440 And this report that came out a little while ago

00:08:45.340 is a great example of this.

00:08:46.740 The government's given no concession

00:08:48.720 that the report might be valid,

00:08:50.540 even though they were the ones that put it together.

00:08:52.160 They've just been downplaying it

00:08:53.740 and talking about all the reasons why,

00:08:55.620 well, you know, we'll take it into consideration.

00:08:57.700 It's just an interim report

00:08:59.100 when it says the hotel quarantine simply doesn't do anything.

00:09:03.380 Yeah, great points and a few things to build on from that.

00:09:06.880 First of all, I've heard rumours from a few well-placed sources

00:09:10.340 that the government was actually in possession of that report

00:09:13.820 for a long period of time,

00:09:15.120 that they actually renewed the hotel quarantine program

00:09:17.600 while being in possession of that report and sitting on it.

00:09:21.820 You know, I think that's something that needs to be looked into

00:09:24.620 based on what you just said,

00:09:26.800 that the government isn't making science-based decisions.

00:09:29.300 And just furthering that,

00:09:31.460 I have asked department officials numerous times

00:09:34.860 to publish data that shows that this quarantine hotel system

00:09:39.500 is better at preventing the spread of COVID

00:09:41.480 than any number of other options, including at-home quarantine.

00:09:44.940 They can never provide that.

00:09:46.480 Bluntly put, Trudeau failed to close the border

00:09:49.020 when it counted in early 2020.

00:09:51.800 And the hotel quarantine program was just put in place,

00:09:55.400 I believe, to discourage middle-class Canadians 1.00

00:09:58.180 from travelling to make it cost-ineffective

00:10:01.140 because it's sure not stopping NHL players

00:10:03.660 and rich people from getting special exemptions.

00:10:05.800 It's sure not stopping Justin Trudeau from travelling abroad.

00:10:09.380 And that entitlement, that elitism,

00:10:13.120 that stratification of social class

00:10:15.220 under the guise of public health orders is disgusting.

00:10:18.600 And I hope that Canadians of all political stripes

00:10:21.160 hold him to account for it.

00:10:22.960 You are right about the elitism, 0.99

00:10:25.140 not just in hotel quarantine,

00:10:26.800 but in general with a lot of the travel restrictions

00:10:29.340 because we've seen that people who have money

00:10:31.920 can get around it.

00:10:33.280 You know, they can fly with a private jet

00:10:34.860 into an airport that's not one of those main four.

00:10:37.520 They can pay for the hotel quarantine if they need to.

00:10:40.260 They can do these bizarre arrangements

00:10:42.380 like driving to a border and taking a helicopter over

00:10:45.300 that we heard of happening in Ontario and Quebec.

00:10:47.760 And politicians in the same boat,

00:10:49.420 they're telling Canadians that their travel is not essential

00:10:52.420 no matter why they want to do it or how important it is.

00:10:55.120 But when they're doing something abroad,

00:10:56.860 whether it's a G7 summit or something else,

00:10:59.540 it's essential.

00:11:00.580 And there is a double standard there.

00:11:02.520 And admittedly, I'm not one who's saying don't travel.

00:11:05.200 I'm saying that if they're telling people not to travel,

00:11:08.260 they should be playing by the same rules.

00:11:09.840 How is an NHL player traveling into Canada

00:11:14.840 more essential than, you know,

00:11:17.640 I had a constituent in tears call me

00:11:19.560 about how his cross-border relationship

00:11:21.480 is in very difficult times,

00:11:25.720 has family members that are sick.

00:11:27.860 How is that travel more essential?

00:11:29.420 Like, it's just complete, you know,

00:11:31.680 I was going to use an expletive.

00:11:32.960 It's just so bad.

00:11:36.040 I, the program needs to end.

00:11:39.420 And at this point in time,

00:11:40.820 the federal government should be putting forward benchmarks

00:11:43.280 for safe reopening and lifting of federal restrictions

00:11:46.580 as it pertains to the border.

00:11:47.900 They can do that while at the same time

00:11:49.520 doing something that they've also completely failed on,

00:11:51.960 which is putting in place a system

00:11:54.540 to detect pathogens that are,

00:11:57.360 like, might have a significant impact on Canada,

00:12:00.540 like COVID variants of concern.

00:12:02.880 Why did, the COVID, the Delta variant,

00:12:05.260 that's what they're calling it, I believe, in India,

00:12:07.420 was detected in October.

00:12:09.680 And then they only banned flights from there,

00:12:12.540 what, about a month ago?

00:12:13.740 What is, like, how does that happen?

00:12:15.980 And so, it's just nonsensical.

00:12:18.900 I also actually condemn the, you know,

00:12:21.500 some of the senior level officials

00:12:23.020 that are giving the government advice on this.

00:12:25.540 They're so disconnected from reality.

00:12:27.160 But the buck stops with these ministers

00:12:28.900 and the prime minister who are living

00:12:31.780 by one different set of rules for themselves

00:12:34.440 than everybody else.

00:12:36.520 And I hope that people realize that,

00:12:38.320 that this is an entitled elitist system

00:12:42.400 from an out-of-touch government

00:12:43.720 and from a prime minister who thinks

00:12:45.340 it's more important to go to, you know,

00:12:47.640 to travel abroad when no one else can,

00:12:49.820 rather than fix the system first.

00:12:51.480 He should have done that.

00:12:52.180 He's making people pay tax dollars

00:12:54.640 so that he can stay in a bougie hotel

00:12:57.580 in Ottawa for optics.

00:13:00.700 If he's so committed to the hotel quarantine system,

00:13:03.220 maybe he should stay in one of those rooms

00:13:04.780 that don't have a lock

00:13:05.760 that other women have had to be subjected to. 0.97

00:13:07.980 If his security is so important,

00:13:09.380 maybe he could just fix the system for everybody.

00:13:12.040 Very well said.

00:13:13.080 Conservative health critic, Michelle Rempel-Garner.

00:13:15.360 Always a pleasure.

00:13:16.040 Thank you, Michelle.

00:13:17.220 Thank you.

00:13:18.020 I want to turn from the political side of this

00:13:20.380 to the legal side of this.

00:13:21.700 Last week, I was tied up for three days.

00:13:24.040 I say tied up.

00:13:24.780 I enjoy doing it.

00:13:25.760 And I wasn't nearly as tied up

00:13:26.980 as the people that were actually participating

00:13:28.880 in the Zoom call.

00:13:29.760 But in a federal court Zoom hearing,

00:13:32.200 as the constitutionality of the hotel quarantine

00:13:34.760 was being challenged,

00:13:36.580 there were a number of applicants,

00:13:37.820 most of them represented

00:13:38.940 by the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms,

00:13:41.280 but our friends at Rebel and Kian Bexty

00:13:44.000 were also putting their claims forward,

00:13:46.240 arguing that this federal hotel quarantine program

00:13:49.700 is not constitutional.

00:13:51.840 And also, basically, that it doesn't work.

00:13:54.720 The effectiveness, or lack thereof,

00:13:56.880 became very central to the hearing as well.

00:13:59.500 I want to bring in Sia Hassan, 0.99

00:14:01.320 who is a lawyer with the Justice Center

00:14:02.920 for Constitutional Freedoms

00:14:04.140 and was one of the two primary litigators

00:14:06.420 on this case for the JCCF.

00:14:09.000 Sia, thanks for coming on.

00:14:10.240 Great to talk to you.

00:14:11.320 Thank you so much for having me.

00:14:12.860 Now, we've seen an injunction on this question before.

00:14:16.260 This is really the first time

00:14:17.840 that in a full hearing on the merits,

00:14:20.440 we've had the constitutionality of this attested, isn't it?

00:14:24.460 That's correct.

00:14:25.240 Yes, the Justice Center brought an injunction hearing

00:14:28.500 where we were not successful,

00:14:30.540 but the judge found that there were serious issues

00:14:33.160 to be tried when it came to Section 7 and 9 of the Charter.

00:14:36.360 And then we were able to have the full hearing

00:14:39.620 on the merits of our charter arguments.

00:14:42.500 The premise of this program,

00:14:44.460 I know I've talked about it on the show in the past,

00:14:46.440 is that in January,

00:14:48.180 the government of Canada said,

00:14:49.680 we've got all these variants coming in,

00:14:51.380 our travel measures that we have in place now aren't working.

00:14:54.200 So we're going to force anyone who comes into the country by air 1.00

00:14:57.740 to stay in a hotel near the airport for three days to get a test.

00:15:02.380 And then at the end of that three days,

00:15:03.780 they can continue on home and complete their quarantine.

00:15:07.200 What's really the basis of your arguments?

00:15:09.580 And what is it that your applicants are actually fighting for?

00:15:13.480 We brought quite a,

00:15:15.100 we're challenging quite a few of the charter sections,

00:15:18.320 but really the main area is the detention.

00:15:21.400 So under Section 7, we have the right to liberty and security of person.

00:15:25.960 And under Section 9,

00:15:27.020 we have the right not to be arbitrarily detained.

00:15:29.800 And really the focus was on the fact that people that are forced

00:15:32.880 into these government-mandated hotels,

00:15:35.220 they're being detained against their will.

00:15:36.940 They are not going there voluntarily.

00:15:39.520 And of course, we raised the issue that once you're detained,

00:15:42.040 you're entitled to speak to counsel,

00:15:43.880 which is also a right that is being violated

00:15:45.920 during these quarantine hotel when this is going forward.

00:15:51.140 So those are some of the issues that we raised.

00:15:54.460 I was tuned in for the majority of the hearing.

00:15:57.460 And at one point, the federal government's lawyer was saying that,

00:16:01.100 well, it's not arbitrary because everyone is getting it to,

00:16:04.580 everyone's subjected to it.

00:16:06.300 And you have people that are coming into the country 1.00

00:16:09.160 that know this is going to happen.

00:16:10.880 Is the government admitting that this is detention

00:16:14.220 when they make that argument,

00:16:15.700 when they just focus on the arbitrary part?

00:16:17.520 No, I don't think they were admitting any part of the detention.

00:16:21.800 In fact, they argued that it was a frivolous argument.

00:16:24.880 But the argument, there's two parts to detention.

00:16:28.160 So first, you have to actually either be physically

00:16:30.340 or psychologically detained.

00:16:32.020 And we argued that once you're at the airport

00:16:34.080 and you're being mandated to go to these quarantine hotels

00:16:37.660 and or the quarantine facilities, you are detained.

00:16:40.760 And then the second part is that it has to be arbitrary.

00:16:43.600 And the arbitrary argument, there's quite a few arguments to it.

00:16:47.320 But one of them is the fact that there's only a small number of people,

00:16:51.560 actually, who are being subject to the quarantine hotels.

00:16:54.440 75% of the international travelers who come to Canada

00:16:57.840 are completely exempt from the quarantine hotel.

00:17:00.920 So their focus is only on 25% of the international travelers.

00:17:05.300 That in itself, we argued, was arbitrary.

00:17:08.040 The fact that the land travelers are being treated differently

00:17:10.760 than the air travelers, those types of things make the detention arbitrary.

00:17:15.320 At one point, when you talk about how few people of overall travelers

00:17:19.820 are subjected to this, one thought that comes to mind

00:17:21.940 is that a lot of people are simply not traveling

00:17:24.720 because they don't want to be subjected to this.

00:17:27.080 And it seems as though the government has put in place a lot of these measures,

00:17:31.280 not because the measures themselves work,

00:17:33.760 but because they're trying to make travel so convoluted

00:17:38.120 and so costly for people that they don't do it.

00:17:40.460 They're trying to discourage travel, it looks like.

00:17:42.780 And if that is, in fact, the case,

00:17:45.220 that's not a selling point on a constitutional defense for the government.

00:17:50.240 Because as I understand it,

00:17:51.960 any limitation of constitutional freedoms has to be very pointed

00:17:54.820 and very directly tied to the policy objective,

00:17:58.140 which, if it is just a part of discouraging it, it really isn't tied.

00:18:01.740 Well, the government is arguing that the reason for these measures

00:18:05.860 is to limit the importation of the variants.

00:18:09.820 But you're absolutely on point.

00:18:11.620 And one of the other arguments we made was the Section 6.1 argument,

00:18:15.200 which is your charter right to enter Canada freely

00:18:18.020 and be able to leave freely.

00:18:19.920 And when you put in place,

00:18:21.080 when the government puts in place measures

00:18:23.500 that prevent people from traveling

00:18:25.500 or makes it difficult for them to come back,

00:18:28.100 that violates their charter rights under Section 6.1,

00:18:30.960 because the measures are very restrictive

00:18:35.880 and they violate a lot of people to enter.

00:18:39.380 It just makes it a lot more difficult.

00:18:41.220 And they argue that that was also against the Section 6.1 of the charter.

00:18:45.460 Anyone who's ever followed any of these constitutional arguments in Canada

00:18:49.660 in any case knows that we, of course, have Section 1 of the charter,

00:18:53.360 which subjects all of the subsequent charter rights

00:18:55.680 to so-called reasonable limits.

00:18:58.040 And in a lot of contexts,

00:19:00.420 this means, I would fear,

00:19:01.920 that if the government can say the program's working,

00:19:04.660 a court could find that the limitation of freedoms would be limited.

00:19:08.460 Is that where you feel this case is headed,

00:19:11.460 where the court may concede,

00:19:13.040 yes, rights are being violated,

00:19:14.480 but the limitation is justified because of X, Y, Z,

00:19:18.700 when you're talking about the variance or importation risk and so on?

00:19:22.900 Well, we're hoping the court will not find that,

00:19:25.100 that they will find that these limits are not justified under Section 1.

00:19:29.020 But that's probably where things are going to turn.

00:19:32.140 And we were before the Chief Justice, Crampton,

00:19:35.120 and he was actually very concerned about the evidence.

00:19:37.340 And he was asking the Crown,

00:19:39.000 you know, where's the evidence for this

00:19:40.480 and where's the evidence for that?

00:19:41.760 So he was very alive to the issue.

00:19:43.600 And I take comfort in the fact that he was asking questions

00:19:47.660 and he wanted to know where the evidence was.

00:19:50.680 So I thought that was a good sign.

00:19:53.340 Yeah.

00:19:53.560 And one point that I found very interesting,

00:19:55.860 and the government lawyers did not really seem to have an answer for it,

00:19:59.740 was, and just for people that haven't come into the country under this,

00:20:03.100 you might not know this,

00:20:03.920 but you go to the hotel quarantine,

00:20:05.420 you get a COVID test.

00:20:06.700 At the end of your three days,

00:20:08.360 if your test is positive,

00:20:10.200 more often than not,

00:20:11.520 you still continue home

00:20:13.080 exactly as you would have

00:20:14.900 if your test came back negative

00:20:16.560 and you still go into 14-day quarantine

00:20:18.820 exactly as if your test was negative.

00:20:21.580 And in doing so,

00:20:23.020 the government has really made it

00:20:24.420 so there's not a substantive difference,

00:20:26.720 which makes me question,

00:20:28.080 and I would hope makes anyone question,

00:20:29.900 okay, well, what's the point of this all?

00:20:31.800 And the judge had asked,

00:20:33.060 I know, at a couple of points

00:20:34.500 for more information about that,

00:20:36.140 and the government didn't really seem to have the data

00:20:37.920 on how many people

00:20:38.840 have actually not been permitted to go right home,

00:20:41.340 even with a positive test result.

00:20:43.480 And, you know, at one point,

00:20:44.660 it seemed like the lawyer for the government of Canada

00:20:47.020 had said,

00:20:47.600 well, you know, if you know you're positive,

00:20:49.800 your mindset will be different

00:20:51.180 when you're in quarantine,

00:20:52.160 which, again, doesn't seem

00:20:53.380 like the most selling argument for them.

00:20:57.120 Definitely.

00:20:57.820 And that was, I mean,

00:20:58.800 I think they argued a lot of points,

00:21:00.900 but one of them was,

00:21:02.040 yes, the government is arguing

00:21:03.440 that if you know that you're positive,

00:21:05.380 then you will have a different mindset.

00:21:07.160 Well, the argument was,

00:21:08.240 where's the evidence for this?

00:21:09.680 It certainly wasn't in any of the affidavits.

00:21:11.780 It just, it was something

00:21:13.040 that one of the ATPN stated

00:21:14.860 in her cross-examination.

00:21:16.900 And so that was something that we challenged.

00:21:19.560 And certainly it doesn't appear

00:21:21.300 that they are collecting data

00:21:22.780 with respect to how many people

00:21:24.200 who test positive get to go home

00:21:26.220 versus who is being directed

00:21:27.740 to the quarantine facility.

00:21:29.900 Now, I know that this was, again,

00:21:32.280 a three-day-long hearing.

00:21:33.920 There were thousands and thousands

00:21:35.220 of pages of evidence.

00:21:37.120 It's entirely possible

00:21:38.500 that the program could end

00:21:40.600 if the government ends the program

00:21:42.040 before a decision comes from the court.

00:21:44.800 But if that happens,

00:21:45.940 is it still important in your eyes

00:21:47.620 that this be found unconstitutional?

00:21:50.560 Absolutely.

00:21:51.420 I think it's very important

00:21:52.880 because this is the first time

00:21:54.440 in post-charter history

00:21:55.960 where the government

00:21:56.980 is forcing people into quarantine,

00:22:00.080 essentially detaining people en masse.

00:22:02.860 And if this is found

00:22:04.800 to be constitutional,

00:22:06.200 I think it's going to be,

00:22:07.180 it's going to set

00:22:07.920 a very dangerous precedent

00:22:09.260 because moving forward,

00:22:10.880 the government can continue to do so.

00:22:13.440 Versus if the courts

00:22:14.360 put a stop to it now,

00:22:16.040 they will not be able

00:22:17.040 to use that later on

00:22:18.160 in other emergency contexts.

00:22:21.140 Yeah, and this is, I think,

00:22:23.100 a very important point, Sia,

00:22:24.380 because we know that, yes,

00:22:25.560 this is a once-in-a-lifetime problem

00:22:27.840 that we're dealing with now.

00:22:28.980 We certainly hope as far as COVID.

00:22:30.920 But the very nature

00:22:32.480 of the circumstances

00:22:33.880 under which governments

00:22:34.760 wish to suspend liberties,

00:22:36.260 which is situations of emergency,

00:22:38.360 are the circumstances

00:22:39.440 in which it's most important

00:22:40.700 to preserve and protect liberties.

00:22:42.820 I mean, the right to enter the country

00:22:44.180 without detention

00:22:44.940 is for the most part

00:22:46.640 not a right that is challenged

00:22:48.480 on a day-to-day basis

00:22:49.800 under normal circumstances.

00:22:51.140 So this idea

00:22:52.400 that an emergency

00:22:53.300 is a trump card

00:22:54.700 that you can use

00:22:55.420 to suspend the charter

00:22:56.360 is simply not accurate

00:22:58.200 and very dangerous

00:22:59.540 of a presumption

00:23:00.420 by the government, I'd say.

00:23:02.160 Absolutely.

00:23:02.960 And that's what we told

00:23:04.000 the Chief Justice

00:23:05.360 that it's exactly

00:23:06.700 during these times

00:23:07.760 the emergencies

00:23:08.460 when charter rights

00:23:10.120 are being violated.

00:23:11.260 So it's very important

00:23:12.200 for the courts

00:23:12.900 to be vigilant

00:23:13.620 and to be the gatekeepers

00:23:15.020 and ensure that the government

00:23:16.360 isn't violating our charts

00:23:18.580 arbitrarily.

00:23:21.860 So I know predictions

00:23:23.580 are very difficult.

00:23:24.760 You put your best foot forward,

00:23:26.320 you make the arguments,

00:23:27.240 you submit the evidence,

00:23:28.200 the Chief Justice has to rule.

00:23:30.140 What do you think

00:23:30.880 this case will really come down to

00:23:32.880 in the court's decision?

00:23:34.040 What do you think will be,

00:23:35.260 I guess,

00:23:35.700 the factor that sways

00:23:37.140 the decision

00:23:37.840 one way or the other?

00:23:39.780 It's really hard to tell

00:23:41.220 and I really can't predict.

00:23:42.700 But what I can say

00:23:43.920 is that the Chief Justice

00:23:45.340 was listening.

00:23:46.280 It was very clear

00:23:47.380 that he had read

00:23:48.220 everyone's material.

00:23:49.620 He had marked things up.

00:23:51.080 He was asking

00:23:51.620 a lot of intelligent questions

00:23:53.240 and he did tell all of us

00:23:55.540 that he was going to review

00:23:56.860 all of the affidavits

00:23:58.200 and the evidence in detail

00:23:59.640 and that we had given him

00:24:01.120 a lot to think about.

00:24:02.620 So I think that's all,

00:24:04.620 that's what we can ask

00:24:05.500 when we're having a hearing

00:24:06.540 to have a judge who listens

00:24:07.820 and who takes notes

00:24:09.280 and who asks questions.

00:24:10.560 And I think

00:24:11.060 that's always a positive sign.

00:24:13.120 Sia Hassan,

00:24:14.980 lawyer with the

00:24:15.780 Justice Centre

00:24:16.300 for Constitutional Freedoms.

00:24:17.600 A very big week last week

00:24:19.300 with three days

00:24:20.140 in federal court

00:24:21.140 arguing for the end

00:24:22.480 of the hotel quarantine plan.

00:24:23.780 So I hope you were able

00:24:24.860 to get some much needed

00:24:26.220 and much deserved rest afterwards.

00:24:27.900 But I appreciate you

00:24:28.840 joining me today, Sia.

00:24:29.780 Thank you.

00:24:30.320 Thank you.

00:24:30.800 Thank you for having me.

00:24:32.400 That was a very important case.

00:24:34.620 And it's funny,

00:24:35.200 I had,

00:24:35.720 after I was live tweeting

00:24:36.740 a lot of it,

00:24:37.260 I had someone respond

00:24:38.260 and say,

00:24:38.680 is the judge going to

00:24:39.440 come out with a decision today?

00:24:41.200 This was on Thursday

00:24:42.140 after the case had wrapped up.

00:24:44.100 And I said,

00:24:44.620 I certainly hope not

00:24:45.740 because if the judge

00:24:46.940 is coming out

00:24:48.240 with a decision

00:24:48.740 after, you know,

00:24:49.680 three days of non-stop arguments

00:24:51.660 and thousands of pages

00:24:52.660 of testimony,

00:24:53.720 that means he hasn't really

00:24:55.140 thought things through

00:24:56.240 all that much.

00:24:57.000 So if he just comes back

00:24:58.080 and says,

00:24:58.460 no, no, no,

00:24:58.840 it's no big deal.

00:24:59.760 I don't quite want that to happen.

00:25:01.120 But it is going to take a while.

00:25:02.500 And like I said to Sia,

00:25:03.940 it is entirely possible

00:25:05.460 that the decision

00:25:07.040 will come back

00:25:07.800 after the hotel quarantine plan

00:25:09.820 is already dead.

00:25:10.960 And I hope so.

00:25:11.560 I would love to see

00:25:12.180 the government

00:25:12.560 kill this program imminently

00:25:14.780 without needing a court

00:25:16.040 to tell them

00:25:16.560 it's unconstitutional.

00:25:18.000 But the caveat there

00:25:19.600 is that it is still important

00:25:20.940 to put on the record

00:25:22.160 that lack of constitutionality

00:25:24.420 because we see this

00:25:25.640 with the pandemic.

00:25:26.540 Every single measure

00:25:27.660 that governments have imposed

00:25:29.020 because of court backlog,

00:25:30.920 because of all the fines

00:25:31.960 that are being challenged,

00:25:33.340 the laws that are being challenged,

00:25:34.680 all of this,

00:25:35.440 there have not been

00:25:36.280 many opportunities

00:25:37.320 to actually have

00:25:38.400 these full constitutional hearings

00:25:39.920 in court.

00:25:40.680 So the idea

00:25:41.540 that the government

00:25:42.380 just has all of these measures

00:25:43.760 they're doing

00:25:44.260 that are untested

00:25:45.100 and when the next emergency

00:25:46.840 rolls around

00:25:47.520 they do them all again

00:25:48.360 and no one's challenging them

00:25:49.520 because they are moot

00:25:50.720 as they say

00:25:51.480 because oh well

00:25:52.100 the pandemic's over,

00:25:53.100 it's not a big deal.

00:25:54.300 We need to make sure

00:25:55.220 that we put in place

00:25:56.120 the jurisprudence

00:25:56.980 to prevent governments

00:25:58.640 from seizing

00:25:59.420 these rights and freedoms

00:26:01.100 without opposition

00:26:03.020 the next time

00:26:04.180 something comes around

00:26:05.260 that makes it tempting

00:26:06.480 for them to do that.

00:26:07.980 So my thanks

00:26:08.560 to Sia Hassan

00:26:09.640 and also to the Justice Center

00:26:11.020 for Constitutional Freedoms

00:26:12.420 for putting this forward.

00:26:14.460 We've got to take a break

00:26:15.320 when we come back

00:26:16.240 more of the Andrew Lawton Show

00:26:17.580 here on True North.

00:26:18.700 Stay tuned.

00:26:22.040 You're tuned in

00:26:23.240 to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:26:28.620 Welcome back

00:26:29.480 to the Andrew Lawton Show

00:26:30.920 here on True North.

00:26:32.360 We have talked extensively

00:26:34.560 about Bill C-10.

00:26:36.540 This is the liberal government's bill

00:26:38.240 that will expand vastly

00:26:40.280 the regulatory purview

00:26:41.400 of the government

00:26:42.220 of the CRTC

00:26:43.100 to include online content

00:26:45.280 everything from Netflix

00:26:46.720 and whatever the other

00:26:48.180 Netflix alternatives are

00:26:49.460 Disney Plus

00:26:50.180 to what you post

00:26:51.760 on Twitter

00:26:52.400 and Instagram

00:26:53.080 and TikTok

00:26:53.820 and any of these

00:26:55.040 other myriad platforms

00:26:56.560 which as much as I try

00:26:58.300 I can't necessarily

00:26:59.440 keep up with.

00:27:00.620 The major problem

00:27:01.820 with this is

00:27:02.320 that the government

00:27:02.920 has been behaving

00:27:04.120 to pass Bill C-10

00:27:05.900 in a way that demonstrates

00:27:07.620 exactly why government

00:27:09.160 cannot be trusted

00:27:10.160 to regulate the internet

00:27:11.860 and what you post on it.

00:27:13.520 For starters

00:27:14.200 we've had Stephen Gilbeau

00:27:15.720 the Heritage Minister

00:27:16.660 call anyone who is

00:27:18.160 criticizing this bill

00:27:19.120 a conspiracy theorist

00:27:20.360 and an extremist

00:27:21.380 and accuse the conservatives

00:27:22.920 of fake news

00:27:23.800 and then you have

00:27:25.260 the unwillingness

00:27:26.440 of the government

00:27:27.360 to entertain debate

00:27:28.920 on this.

00:27:29.380 We're talking about

00:27:30.100 a very sizable bill

00:27:31.800 a very significant bill

00:27:33.400 and a very complex bill

00:27:34.680 and the Liberals

00:27:35.720 want to ram it through

00:27:37.080 before the summer

00:27:38.140 even at the cost

00:27:39.820 of debating the bill

00:27:41.060 more extensively.

00:27:42.600 This is exactly

00:27:43.600 what happened

00:27:44.420 in the House of Commons

00:27:45.540 this week.

00:27:46.340 The Liberals

00:27:46.980 backed by the Bloc Québécois

00:27:48.900 passed what can be

00:27:50.160 best characterized

00:27:51.220 as a gag order

00:27:52.900 on Parliament

00:27:54.000 cutting short debate

00:27:55.380 on Bill C-10

00:27:56.360 so they can just

00:27:57.760 get on with it

00:27:58.500 and get the bill passed

00:27:59.960 before the House of Commons

00:28:01.260 recesses for the summer

00:28:02.420 in just a couple

00:28:03.800 of weeks time.

00:28:04.960 Now this is something

00:28:05.840 that the Liberals

00:28:06.500 are no doubt couching

00:28:07.580 as just oh it's a procedural

00:28:08.900 matter here and there

00:28:10.040 but they are trying

00:28:11.180 to stifle

00:28:12.080 and shut down debate.

00:28:13.980 They know that

00:28:14.760 the longer Bill C-10

00:28:16.260 is debated

00:28:17.000 the more Canadians

00:28:17.800 will see exactly

00:28:18.660 why it is

00:28:19.260 that the Liberals

00:28:19.860 shouldn't be trusted

00:28:21.140 to regulate the internet.

00:28:22.880 So here's my point.

00:28:24.280 Why should Canadians 1.00

00:28:25.160 be expected

00:28:26.140 to endorse

00:28:27.300 government regulation

00:28:28.760 of the internet

00:28:29.600 and internet content

00:28:30.600 when that same government

00:28:32.200 doesn't even want

00:28:33.360 a debate on the bill?

00:28:35.320 What else are they

00:28:35.960 going to shut down?

00:28:37.340 This is the,

00:28:37.860 and again,

00:28:38.360 I'm not saying

00:28:38.860 Stephen Gilbeau

00:28:39.460 is personally going to be

00:28:40.420 sitting over the big

00:28:41.100 control panel saying

00:28:42.100 well you know

00:28:42.900 that Andrew Lawton guy

00:28:43.780 I don't like that tweet

00:28:44.600 so maybe we'll zap

00:28:45.620 that tweet of his

00:28:46.440 but the problem is

00:28:47.660 the government

00:28:48.100 has a tendency

00:28:49.060 to redefine things

00:28:51.180 in ways that

00:28:52.060 are only suitable

00:28:53.360 to them.

00:28:54.440 So when it comes down

00:28:55.380 to deciding

00:28:56.040 who gets an exemption

00:28:57.080 for being a media

00:28:58.000 organization

00:28:58.500 and who doesn't

00:28:59.460 I do believe

00:29:00.320 the government

00:29:00.800 is going to make

00:29:01.560 a judgment call

00:29:02.360 that is going to

00:29:03.620 exclude independent

00:29:04.700 media outlets

00:29:05.480 like True North.

00:29:06.800 When social media

00:29:07.960 companies have to

00:29:08.840 develop their own

00:29:09.520 policies on what

00:29:10.360 can be posted

00:29:11.020 I know that those

00:29:12.420 policies are going

00:29:13.360 to be heavily shaped

00:29:14.520 by a liberal government

00:29:16.020 whose approach

00:29:16.800 is not generally

00:29:18.460 conducive to

00:29:19.220 free speech

00:29:19.900 and so many

00:29:21.780 of the intricacies

00:29:22.580 of this

00:29:23.020 the liberals

00:29:23.480 have said

00:29:23.920 well that's all

00:29:25.100 going to be

00:29:25.400 in the regulations

00:29:26.240 that's just going

00:29:26.980 to come from

00:29:27.820 the CRTC

00:29:28.500 we've just got

00:29:29.120 to pass the bill

00:29:30.000 remember when

00:29:31.060 Nancy Pelosi

00:29:31.760 had made that

00:29:32.720 comment about

00:29:33.700 I think it was

00:29:34.220 a budget or a

00:29:34.940 stimulus

00:29:35.240 she said

00:29:35.620 you have to

00:29:36.080 pass the bill

00:29:36.700 to find out

00:29:37.320 what's in it

00:29:37.980 well that's

00:29:38.740 Stephen Gilbeau's

00:29:39.500 approach to

00:29:40.000 Bill C-10

00:29:40.620 you've got to

00:29:41.360 pass the bill

00:29:41.940 to find out

00:29:42.600 what the regulations

00:29:43.460 are going to be

00:29:44.360 so this is why

00:29:46.520 conservatives

00:29:47.200 and to be fair

00:29:48.500 the NDP as well

00:29:49.700 why conservatives

00:29:51.040 and the NDP

00:29:51.620 are so insistent

00:29:53.500 on debating this

00:29:54.520 and on discussing this

00:29:55.460 because the liberals

00:29:56.200 are leaving a lot

00:29:57.200 off the books

00:29:58.540 they're leaving a lot

00:29:59.420 out of the text

00:30:00.260 of the bill

00:30:00.840 and that is going

00:30:02.200 to be as that

00:30:03.060 saying goes

00:30:03.760 the devil

00:30:04.420 that lives

00:30:05.160 in the details

00:30:06.260 so how dare you

00:30:08.460 claim on one hand

00:30:09.860 that you stand up

00:30:10.640 for free speech

00:30:11.420 and that anyone

00:30:11.880 who says you don't

00:30:12.720 stand up for free speech

00:30:13.700 as a lying extremist

00:30:15.100 conspiracy theorist

00:30:16.160 on one hand

00:30:16.920 well on the other hand

00:30:18.200 literally shutting down

00:30:20.140 the debate

00:30:20.720 around that very bill

00:30:22.400 that you say

00:30:23.040 is not going to be

00:30:24.040 an affront to free speech

00:30:25.240 you can't make

00:30:26.560 this stuff up

00:30:27.780 and if you could

00:30:28.820 the liberals would call it

00:30:29.720 fake news anyway

00:30:30.600 but here's the problem

00:30:32.040 the liberals are now

00:30:33.480 going to get this passed

00:30:35.020 there is a hope

00:30:36.140 that people have

00:30:36.980 to hold out on

00:30:37.820 that the senate

00:30:38.800 will either drag

00:30:40.100 its heels on it

00:30:40.840 as senators

00:30:41.320 are wont to do

00:30:42.480 or perhaps

00:30:43.560 that the liberals

00:30:44.140 will not actually

00:30:45.500 get it through

00:30:46.160 the senate

00:30:47.020 perhaps even senators

00:30:48.060 might have some issues

00:30:48.980 with it

00:30:49.300 being the sober minded

00:30:50.900 second thinkers

00:30:51.980 that they often tell us

00:30:53.080 are so critical

00:30:53.720 in the parliamentary process

00:30:55.700 but regardless

00:30:57.000 the liberals

00:30:57.480 are more interested

00:30:58.280 in ramming this through

00:30:59.680 than they are

00:31:00.980 in putting together

00:31:01.920 a bill that makes sense

00:31:03.260 and achieves

00:31:03.980 what they say

00:31:05.120 are their policy objectives

00:31:06.980 which again

00:31:07.720 they're couching it

00:31:08.420 in all great terms

00:31:09.220 oh we just want to

00:31:09.940 protect Canadian content

00:31:11.020 and make the big players

00:31:12.440 pay like the Netflix's

00:31:13.900 and the Facebook's

00:31:14.720 but it isn't those folks

00:31:16.480 who are the most

00:31:17.040 disproportionately targeted

00:31:18.400 it's every Canadian

00:31:19.860 that has been led

00:31:20.600 to believe the internet

00:31:21.580 is as close to

00:31:23.100 an open platform

00:31:24.180 and an open forum

00:31:25.300 as one can find

00:31:26.760 and the liberals

00:31:28.140 are threatening that

00:31:29.120 not by big tech companies

00:31:30.680 but by their own hand

00:31:32.560 and forcing big tech companies

00:31:34.300 to be the enforcers of it

00:31:36.060 and that they are

00:31:37.160 shutting down debate

00:31:38.160 on this

00:31:38.600 once again proves

00:31:39.800 why they are

00:31:40.640 in no position

00:31:41.740 to be calling the shots

00:31:43.400 on what can be posted online

00:31:45.020 which is precisely

00:31:46.180 the regulatory regime

00:31:47.460 they are setting up

00:31:48.520 and just before I take a break

00:31:50.580 I have to just draw attention

00:31:51.920 to this story

00:31:52.500 so I don't know

00:31:52.960 if you've been following it

00:31:53.880 but in Nigeria

00:31:55.180 they are having

00:31:56.400 a bit of a back and forth

00:31:57.480 with Twitter

00:31:58.240 where Twitter banned

00:32:00.080 the Nigerian president

00:32:01.160 from Twitter

00:32:02.040 and then Nigeria

00:32:02.900 just banned Twitter

00:32:03.940 from Nigeria

00:32:04.760 and this has again

00:32:06.720 been a conflict

00:32:07.740 that has revealed

00:32:08.920 Twitter's inconsistency

00:32:10.420 because they stand up

00:32:11.380 and start talking

00:32:12.280 about the importance

00:32:12.980 of free speech

00:32:13.940 and open dialogue

00:32:14.700 and all of that

00:32:15.320 even though they're the ones

00:32:16.360 sitting at the censorship switch

00:32:17.860 and then this happened

00:32:19.520 the Canadian government's

00:32:20.660 diplomatic mission

00:32:21.700 to Nigeria

00:32:22.540 alongside those

00:32:23.540 of the European Union

00:32:24.620 Ireland, Norway,

00:32:25.740 the UK and the US

00:32:26.800 conveyed their

00:32:28.080 quote

00:32:28.480 disappointment

00:32:29.420 unquote

00:32:30.260 with Nigeria's announcement

00:32:31.860 suspending Twitter

00:32:32.640 and proposing registration

00:32:34.000 requirements

00:32:34.720 for other social media

00:32:36.300 we strongly support

00:32:38.220 the fundamental human right

00:32:39.540 of free expression

00:32:40.300 and access to information

00:32:41.880 as a pillar of democracy

00:32:43.460 as around the world

00:32:45.140 and these rights

00:32:45.960 apply online

00:32:47.340 as well as offline

00:32:48.880 banning systems of expression

00:32:50.760 is not the answer

00:32:51.740 so just go back

00:32:53.000 we convey our disappointment

00:32:54.400 over proposing

00:32:56.320 registration requirements

00:32:58.300 for other social media

00:32:59.940 they are literally

00:33:01.820 pushing forward

00:33:03.000 a bill

00:33:03.660 that does

00:33:04.540 exactly that

00:33:05.940 and they had

00:33:06.840 the audacity

00:33:07.560 the Canadian government

00:33:08.460 to join this statement

00:33:09.620 to join this statement

00:33:11.120 saying that they condemn

00:33:12.240 a government effort

00:33:13.600 in Nigeria

00:33:14.140 to regulate

00:33:14.800 social media platforms

00:33:15.980 I have to assume

00:33:17.100 Canada didn't write this

00:33:18.320 that the EU

00:33:18.960 Norway

00:33:19.400 UK

00:33:19.840 US

00:33:20.240 did it

00:33:20.700 and they sent it to Canada

00:33:22.180 not knowing about

00:33:23.060 Bill C-10

00:33:23.680 and Canada's just like

00:33:25.100 okay

00:33:26.600 let's just

00:33:27.240 let's just sign this

00:33:29.080 and send it back

00:33:29.740 and hope they don't

00:33:30.380 don't look too much

00:33:31.620 they've literally

00:33:32.740 signed a letter

00:33:33.780 condemning

00:33:34.620 exactly what

00:33:35.660 they are doing

00:33:36.840 so perhaps

00:33:38.020 Canada and Nigeria

00:33:39.040 can team up

00:33:40.220 to do the

00:33:40.580 retaliatory statement

00:33:41.620 to Twitter on this

00:33:42.920 in any case

00:33:43.400 we've got to take

00:33:44.020 a quick break

00:33:44.820 we will come back

00:33:45.540 to close things out

00:33:46.400 in just a couple of moments

00:33:47.640 here on

00:33:48.220 The Andrew Lawton Show

00:33:49.120 stay with me

00:33:49.940 you're tuned in

00:33:52.400 to The Andrew Lawton Show

00:33:53.980 Welcome back

00:33:57.500 to The Andrew Lawton Show

00:33:58.980 I want to close

00:33:59.740 things out today

00:34:00.920 on a somewhat

00:34:01.800 more reflective note

00:34:03.560 I spoke in

00:34:05.000 the previous episode

00:34:06.040 of this program

00:34:06.680 about John A. Macdonald

00:34:08.240 and the cancel culture

00:34:09.240 mobs 0.93

00:34:09.720 attempts to

00:34:11.040 erase him

00:34:12.060 from history

00:34:12.780 or rebrand him

00:34:13.940 as a villain

00:34:15.100 rather than

00:34:15.800 a hero of Canada

00:34:16.660 and we talked about

00:34:17.400 this in the context

00:34:18.300 of John A. Macdonald

00:34:20.120 being defended

00:34:20.900 by Alberta

00:34:21.860 Premier Jason Kenney

00:34:23.020 at a time

00:34:23.520 when there are

00:34:24.240 very few people

00:34:24.920 willing to

00:34:25.580 stick their neck out

00:34:26.400 and defend

00:34:26.920 John A. Macdonald

00:34:28.340 which is in and of itself

00:34:29.280 a dangerous product

00:34:30.400 of our time

00:34:31.060 and I'm insistent

00:34:33.400 when I've talked

00:34:34.160 about this with people

00:34:35.060 on the point

00:34:36.100 that average

00:34:37.160 ordinary people

00:34:38.240 either don't care

00:34:39.540 about this

00:34:40.360 or certainly

00:34:41.520 don't agree

00:34:42.800 with the cancel mob

00:34:44.500 the number of people

00:34:45.900 if you were to poll

00:34:46.640 average citizens

00:34:47.600 who have a negative view

00:34:49.020 of John A. Macdonald

00:34:49.860 is probably quite minimal

00:34:51.020 but those holding

00:34:52.000 this minority view

00:34:53.420 tend to dominate

00:34:54.280 a majority

00:34:55.220 in academia

00:34:56.620 and in media

00:34:58.040 and increasingly

00:34:59.040 it looks like

00:34:59.820 in the political class

00:35:01.280 well yesterday

00:35:03.240 another statue

00:35:04.500 came down

00:35:05.560 that of Egerton Ryerson

00:35:07.080 outside Ryerson University

00:35:08.900 there was a time

00:35:10.380 when this would have been

00:35:11.300 a lead story

00:35:12.180 on this show

00:35:13.160 that a statue

00:35:13.800 of a historic figure

00:35:14.880 came down

00:35:15.580 it's not anymore

00:35:17.000 and when I saw

00:35:17.960 the tweets

00:35:18.560 of this statue

00:35:19.380 on the ground

00:35:20.180 my first response

00:35:21.640 was

00:35:22.160 oh

00:35:23.060 I thought

00:35:24.140 it was already down

00:35:24.880 and that was

00:35:26.260 basically it

00:35:26.880 I know it had been

00:35:27.400 defaced a few days

00:35:28.680 earlier

00:35:29.000 I knew it had been

00:35:29.820 the subject

00:35:30.600 of ongoing protest

00:35:31.800 and condemnation

00:35:32.680 locally

00:35:33.120 in my view

00:35:34.080 it was only a matter

00:35:35.000 of time

00:35:35.360 before this statue

00:35:36.260 was on the ground

00:35:37.420 a couple of hours

00:35:38.180 later

00:35:38.540 it was decapitated

00:35:40.640 and I have no doubt

00:35:42.220 that activists

00:35:42.740 will move on

00:35:43.420 to the next statue

00:35:44.320 now

00:35:44.660 as I've said

00:35:45.220 time and time again

00:35:46.180 this group

00:35:47.140 is not interested

00:35:47.960 in building anything

00:35:49.060 they are only

00:35:49.840 interested in destroying

00:35:51.100 destroying physical

00:35:52.660 reminders of a past era

00:35:54.120 and also destroying

00:35:55.420 memories of a past era

00:35:57.120 and by extension

00:35:57.940 the lessons

00:35:58.520 we are to take

00:35:59.600 from these periods

00:36:00.520 in history

00:36:01.120 it won't be long

00:36:02.980 before Ryerson

00:36:04.080 is facing a serious

00:36:05.940 push to change

00:36:07.340 the name of the school

00:36:08.600 this will continue

00:36:10.460 more statues

00:36:11.300 will come down

00:36:12.060 more historic figures

00:36:13.120 names will be stripped

00:36:14.000 from schools

00:36:14.960 and parks

00:36:15.620 and any edifices

00:36:16.880 whatsoever

00:36:17.440 and people

00:36:18.720 that say

00:36:19.360 it doesn't matter

00:36:20.400 people who say

00:36:22.340 it's not a big deal

00:36:23.320 and it's not worth

00:36:24.100 fighting for

00:36:24.740 will find eventually

00:36:25.840 they have nothing

00:36:26.680 left to defend

00:36:27.800 and that's the reason

00:36:29.620 I want to tell people

00:36:30.920 to pay attention

00:36:31.680 a lot of these things

00:36:32.600 that seem fringe

00:36:33.860 become increasingly

00:36:34.880 mainstreamed

00:36:36.180 and I'll tell you

00:36:36.960 a story about this

00:36:37.680 back in 2010

00:36:38.680 I was involved

00:36:39.640 in a national speaking

00:36:40.840 tour by Ann Coulter

00:36:42.560 and at the time

00:36:43.960 the campus mob

00:36:45.460 mentality was starting

00:36:46.700 to ramp up

00:36:47.480 as you may remember

00:36:48.620 from that pivotal moment

00:36:49.840 in Ottawa University

00:36:51.060 when Ann was supposed

00:36:52.120 to be speaking

00:36:52.680 and protesters

00:36:53.960 had kind of taken over

00:36:55.260 and made it so dangerous

00:36:57.200 that Ann Coulter

00:36:57.920 could not safely proceed

00:36:59.360 with the talk

00:37:00.020 and it had to be cancelled

00:37:01.080 but two other talks

00:37:02.720 went on without a hitch

00:37:03.960 the University of Western Ontario

00:37:05.480 had one heckler

00:37:06.960 for one moment

00:37:07.760 who got upset his piece

00:37:08.920 and sat down

00:37:09.620 and then the University of Calgary

00:37:11.440 where she spoke

00:37:12.140 and they had said

00:37:13.200 hey it looks like

00:37:14.060 there's a lot of interest

00:37:14.840 in this

00:37:15.140 do you want a bigger room

00:37:16.120 and that was free speech

00:37:18.660 people that didn't like it

00:37:19.680 could boycott it

00:37:20.460 people that liked it

00:37:21.280 could go there

00:37:21.860 and people who are curious

00:37:23.120 could listen

00:37:23.760 that event would not happen

00:37:26.340 in 2021

00:37:27.360 and there was a run

00:37:28.640 for a couple of years

00:37:29.460 before in-person events

00:37:30.620 were prohibited

00:37:31.200 at which point

00:37:32.520 if a speech went on

00:37:33.860 without being interrupted

00:37:35.160 that became newsworthy

00:37:37.020 but a speech being cancelled

00:37:38.880 a venue being shut down

00:37:40.520 a fire alarm being pulled

00:37:41.960 these stories

00:37:42.740 were no longer news

00:37:44.240 and all of the people

00:37:45.820 that said that wasn't

00:37:46.640 the hill to die on

00:37:47.400 well now it's statues

00:37:48.500 and if you don't stand up

00:37:49.420 for statues

00:37:50.000 and history

00:37:50.960 and historic figures

00:37:52.000 it will move on

00:37:53.200 to something else

00:37:54.360 and a lot of people

00:37:55.820 in politics

00:37:56.480 and media

00:37:57.060 and academia

00:37:57.740 who don't believe this

00:37:59.360 but are too afraid

00:38:00.520 to speak up

00:38:01.360 you have to get over it

00:38:02.800 and speak up

00:38:03.760 because the mob

00:38:05.120 that seeks to destroy

00:38:06.340 to shut down discourse

00:38:07.520 to tear things down

00:38:08.580 are never going to stop

00:38:10.400 at statues

00:38:11.080 they will just move on

00:38:12.540 to the next thing

00:38:13.360 and it seems like

00:38:14.080 fewer and fewer people

00:38:15.180 are willing to give them

00:38:16.840 any opposition

00:38:17.600 and I'm not talking

00:38:18.460 about armed conflict

00:38:19.440 I'm not talking

00:38:19.980 about violence

00:38:20.560 I'm talking about

00:38:21.520 ideological opposition

00:38:22.820 when these statues

00:38:24.220 get taken down

00:38:25.100 and someone says

00:38:26.300 we have no intention

00:38:27.320 of putting it back up

00:38:28.320 you are saying

00:38:29.400 that they are right

00:38:30.460 you are saying

00:38:31.360 that they did you a favor

00:38:32.480 that you hadn't gotten around

00:38:33.680 to taking it down

00:38:34.440 and they've done

00:38:35.420 the duty for you

00:38:36.700 they should build it

00:38:38.060 they should build it better

00:38:39.160 they should build it

00:38:40.280 in a way

00:38:40.680 that makes it

00:38:41.340 a beacon on the hill

00:38:42.680 because that is what

00:38:43.880 Canada is

00:38:44.780 a product of its history

00:38:46.920 we've got to wrap things up

00:38:48.600 my thanks to all of you

00:38:49.820 for coming on the show today

00:38:50.980 we'll talk to you soon

00:38:52.100 this is Canada's

00:38:53.080 most irreverent talk show

00:38:54.400 thank you

00:38:55.120 God bless

00:38:55.620 and good day to you all

00:38:56.640 thanks for listening

00:38:57.760 to the Andrew Lawton Show

00:38:58.960 support the program

00:39:00.020 by donating to True North

00:39:01.260 at www.tnc.news

00:39:04.420 CORON recommended it toUSS

00:39:07.680 it's everywhere

00:39:08.180 it seems incredible

00:39:09.160 what's going on

00:39:10.100 and you're a little bit

00:39:10.400 if your husband

00:39:10.800 it's your plate

00:39:11.640 it's your relationship

00:39:12.100 it's your plate

00:39:13.700 it's your building

00:39:14.240 it's your schedule

00:39:15.140 it's your legacy

00:39:15.240 you fürs 0.99

00:39:16.060 it's your reach

00:39:17.600 mine

00:39:17.860 it's your tutor

00:39:18.460 it's your buddy

00:39:19.080 you

00:39:19.680 it's your buddy

00:39:19.760 it's your buddy

00:39:20.580 it's your boss

00:39:20.600 your Scout

00:39:21.680 you

00:39:21.820 it's Mr.

00:39:22.280 Whilst

00:39:22.640 it's true

00:39:23.780 you

00:39:24.080 you

00:39:24.800 are

00:39:24.980 it's your factory

00:39:26.320 it's your behalf

00:39:27.160 it's którym 0.80

00:39:27.740 you

00:39:28.340 you

00:39:28.860 It's yourja

00:39:29.280 you

00:39:29.740 you

00:39:30.480 know

00:39:31.400 it's your

00:39:31.540 사랑

00:39:31.880 and

00:39:32.340 you

Juno News - June 08, 2021

Mask Misdirection

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