Juno News - Maxime Bernier wants to ＂reopen the abortion debate＂

00:00:00.000 We are going to move to a local story, which I think is one that may have national implications

00:00:14.080 here. And that is the by-election in Portage-Lisker, which is one of the most conservative

00:00:20.500 ridings in Canada. And if you need evidence of that, you need not look further than the

00:00:25.960 results in the last few elections. It was previously held by Candace Bergen, who was up until recently

00:00:32.440 the interim leader of the Conservatives. And Candace Bergen, she, and I'm just pulling up the

00:00:38.120 numbers here, she won that riding in 2021 with 52%. But it also happened to be the strongest showing

00:00:44.280 for the People's Party of Canada in the last election, with the PPC candidate getting 21.58%

00:00:51.840 of the vote. Well, now that there is a by-election, we have a Conservative, Brandon Leslie, running,

00:00:58.280 but we also have Maxime Bernier, the leader of the People's Party of Canada, who has stepped

00:01:03.140 up to seek a seat in the House of Commons once again. And he joins me now. Maxime, good to talk

00:01:09.020 to you. Thanks for coming on the show today. Thank you, Andrew. I'm very pleased to be with

00:01:13.280 you. So obviously, you are not a Manitoban. Why are you choosing this riding to run in?

00:01:18.860 Because, like you said, it may be one of the most conservative riding in the country. And

00:01:25.660 I, like I said, the Conservative Party of Canada is a Conservative-only name. They're fake

00:01:31.580 conservative. And I will tackle the real conservative issues, family values. That's why today I said

00:01:38.260 to people here in Portage, this card, that, you know, if I'm elected, I will table a bill

00:01:43.220 on abortion. Can you believe that, Andrew? We don't have any legislation on abortion for

00:01:49.380 35 years. The Conservative did nothing the last 35 years. And I said, enough is enough.

00:01:56.060 We need to have a legislation that will forbid late-term abortion. And that was a discussion 0.99

00:02:02.420 of today. And it is in line with the values of the people here in this riding. But the

00:02:09.300 fake conservative won't speak about that. Actually, Poliev once said the word abortion is too afraid

00:02:15.820 of the mainstream media and also the radical leftist feminists. We are not. It's a common

00:02:22.700 sense political party. And that's why I'm running here. And it's a little bit like in Bose. In Bose,

00:02:29.420 it was a rural riding. It's a rural riding here. And I'm very pleased also that there's

00:02:34.500 a Francophone community here in Portage, this card. So I'm here. I'm running here. And I will

00:02:41.220 be with them before the election, during the election, and after the election.

00:02:45.340 Since you bring up the abortion issue, I wanted to get to that with you anyway. Let me just first

00:02:51.140 contextualize this for people. Are you pro-life or are you pro-choice?

00:02:54.420 You know, I'm a guy that wants to have a debate. And that's why I'm tabling that legislation.

00:03:02.300 I said we must do the first step, Andrew. We didn't have any legislation. We are the only

00:03:07.580 country, all the European countries have legislation on abortion. And usually, it's illegal to have

00:03:15.100 an abortion the second trimester. In my legislation, I'm saying we must end the late-term abortion. 0.86

00:03:22.560 It must be illegal for a woman to have an abortion after six months. And so I believe that every 0.99

00:03:31.080 reasonable person must agree with that. And I'm saying to Pierre Poliev right now at your

00:03:36.460 show, Pierre, why do you want on-board babies to be killed after six months of pregnancy?

00:03:44.400 Why? If you agree with me, why you don't want to reopen the debate?

00:03:49.620 And so answering your question, Andrew, I think that ideally, we must have a legislation that

00:03:56.200 will ban abortion the second trimester. Like all European countries and all across the world, 0.67

00:04:03.840 we don't have that. But let's start by having that discussion in parliament. And I believe

00:04:08.680 that it would be easy if we have reasonable people in parliament to adopt that. Because,

00:04:14.600 you know, killing a baby a couple of hours before giving birth, that's happening in our country.

00:04:20.040 And I know that the radical feminists will say, oh, no, no, it's terrible. It won't happen. 0.88

00:04:25.980 It is. I said this morning at my press conference, every year in Quebec, and I just have the data in

00:04:32.240 Quebec. The Quebec government, and in Quebec, we have late-term abortion, 20 women every year,

00:04:39.880 they are having a late-term abortion in my own province in Quebec. And so that's the case. And

00:04:46.240 we need to change that. We need to have this debate. And I'm opening that debate right now.

00:04:51.480 Yeah, but again, it was a pretty direct question. Are you pro-life or are you pro-choice, personally?

00:04:56.600 I would be very direct, Andrew. I won't answer your question. I won't. Because the reality is,

00:05:01.840 this bill is there. And the goal is to end late-term abortion. And I will answer your question by that

00:05:09.720 answer. Ideally, it would be great to have a legislation that will ban abortion at the second

00:05:16.040 trimester, like all civilized countries. It's time for Canada to be part of the civilized world.

00:05:22.540 So, and that's why I'll have a lot of pro-life people here in this writing that agree with me.

00:05:28.340 You know, you need to start talking.

00:05:31.000 I want to just get to the precision on here, on Maxine, because the legislation that you put

00:05:37.460 forward, I agree, it's a disgrace that Canada has no law on abortion on the books. And the bill that

00:05:43.120 you've announced this morning would cap it at 24 weeks, as I understand. Now, data are very hard to

00:05:50.140 come by in Canada on this, but it's a minority of abortions that take place after 24 weeks. I've seen

00:05:56.620 estimates that we could be in hundreds of individual abortions on the high end, maybe

00:06:01.400 eight to 9%. But most abortions are before 24 weeks. So do you think that should be a woman's 1.00

00:06:08.260 right to choose before 24 weeks?

00:06:11.280 But you're right about the number. And yes, we know, if we had only one abortion,

00:06:16.660 late-term abortion, it's one murder that we must not have. First, answering your question, 0.87

00:06:22.800 yes, I said, ideally, we must have the discussion. In Europe, it's all about the second term. And it's,

00:06:29.960 you know, they are regulating abortion at the second term. And yes, we need to have the discussion,

00:06:35.440 but we need to start that discussion before that. So let's have the legislation. Let's approve that

00:06:41.600 legislation in Parliament as soon as possible. And yes, my personal position on that is an answer.

00:06:46.960 Yes, it must be at the second term. You know, a lady will have three months to decide if she wants 1.00

00:06:54.120 to have an abortion or not. Three months, it's a lot. But that's why I said, I want to have a victory

00:07:01.240 here. We never had the victory the last 35 years. And the conservatives are so weak. They don't have

00:07:09.780 any conviction. They're afraid to speak about abortion. Look like last week, Trudeau said to

00:07:16.720 Podiev, oh, you want to reopen the debate on abortion. And oh, no, Podiev, no, no, I don't want

00:07:23.460 to reopen the debate. And actually, if you read the policy declaration on the website of the

00:07:28.580 Conservative Party of Canada at page 30, policy 76, they are saying, and I just want to read that to

00:07:37.500 you. They're saying that a Conservative government won't reopen the debate on abortion. They won't.

00:07:45.480 They won't. They won't. They won't table any legislation on abortion. That's their policy that

00:07:51.820 must change. And if we vote for a Conservative candidate here, it won't. And I understand that

00:07:57.500 people in this writing understand that. I'm curious about your evolution on this issue. I know in the

00:08:03.880 past you voted against pro-life legislation. I think there was one years ago about coerced

00:08:09.860 abortion under the Harper government that you voted against. I think Stephen Woodworth had

00:08:14.580 introduced a motion. So where has your perspective shifted or how has your perspective shifted on this?

00:08:21.860 In 2018, when we created the People's Party of Canada and the 2019 election, I said that during

00:08:31.460 that election that, you know, we need to reopen the debate. And I had a strong position at that

00:08:37.600 time. I said, I'm against sex selection, abortion. I'm against late term abortion. So that was a 0.71

00:08:43.440 position. And you're right to say that when I was an MP under the Conservative, as a Conservative,

00:08:49.440 under the Harper government, I did vote for a bill that was viewed as a pro-choice. But that's why

00:08:58.480 people here in this writing understand that. And they're very happy that I did that evolution. And

00:09:03.980 now they have a strong leader of a populist, conservative, true conservative party, common

00:09:10.460 sense party that is ready to have that debate. And because I'm raising that debate, journalists

00:09:16.060 will ask questions to Polyef today, if not tomorrow. And I hope you'll do that, Andrew. Ask him the question,

00:09:22.680 why are you so afraid to reopen the debate? When we have 51% of the population, Angus Reid, 2020 survey,

00:09:32.620 51% of Canadians said, enough is enough. We need to end late term abortion. And Polyef, like all these 1.00

00:09:40.860 other important issues, he won't speak about it. He won't speak about climate change. And the Paris

00:09:46.980 Accord is in line with the Paris Accord. We will withdraw from the Paris Accord. He's taking the

00:09:52.820 Conservative vote for granted out West. And people in this writing understand that. And that's why I believe that

00:09:59.920 people here will make history like they did in 1989, when they elected for the first time, a Reform Party

00:10:08.500 candidate Deborah Bray. Deborah, when they elected her in 1999, that was the first one in a by-election. And after that,

00:10:16.980 the reform had 51 MPs at the last, the next election, and the other next one, they were the

00:10:23.120 official opposition. So people in this writing understand that they can make history, and we can

00:10:29.120 have national debates on important issues for the future of our country. And I will, we've invited

00:10:35.520 your Conservative opponent onto the show, and we will ask him about this, because I agree. And you're not

00:10:41.160 saying anything that I find offensive in wanting there to be a debate on this. The question has been about

00:10:46.360 whether you are, I think, the most likely candidate to bring up that debate. So let me just ask you one more

00:10:52.500 question on abortion here, Maxine, because a lot of pro-life advocates reject what's called the gestational

00:10:58.780 approach, which you've just articulated, which is putting a limit in a certain place, because they think that

00:11:03.380 if you say abortion is not acceptable after 24 weeks, you're saying it is acceptable at other points. And I go back to

00:11:11.780 your own personal conviction on this, if you could write any law you wanted, not just what you think

00:11:16.880 is politically saleable, but what your ideal scenario would be, when should abortion be a choice, and when

00:11:23.380 should it no longer be a choice for women? 1.00

00:11:25.920 Yeah, I answered that question on my press conference. I said, ideally, it must be at the second term,

00:11:31.820 like every, every, every country in Europe. So I'm asking these radical feminists, why, you know, 1.00

00:11:41.280 Italy, France, Belgium, Germany, why it's okay?

00:11:45.740 Very liberal countries a lot of the time, too.

00:11:48.320 Yeah, and they're progressive countries, you're absolutely right. And these, you know, elites,

00:11:54.180 journalists are going, I know that from Quebec, that some of them are going to Italy for their summer.

00:12:00.280 You know, they have a legislation on abortion, and you cannot have an abortion after the second

00:12:06.860 trimesters. So it must be a discussion here, and I'm very pleased that I bring that. Speaking about

00:12:12.520 my opponent, he will be with you, and he may say that he agree with my position, but that's not the

00:12:18.740 question. The question, he can say what he wants in the writing, but when he'll be in Ottawa, he will be

00:12:24.260 silent. The question is the leader, Poliev. That's the question, because you know, they are

00:12:29.820 controlling their MP on abortion. We know that. I was part of that team. I know that. So he can't

00:12:36.400 say anything about abortion. It's not important, and people in this writing will know. They know that

00:12:41.880 it's coming from the leader of the party. He is pro-choice, and he won't allow any debate. So I'm

00:12:50.280 very, very pleased that we will ask that question to my opponent. But please, ask that question to my

00:12:55.900 opponent as a leader to Pierre Poliev, that's the most important answer that we must have, that

00:13:01.900 Canadians must have. Let's turn to the writing itself here. So we were discussing earlier, Maxime,

00:13:08.620 the PPC did very well in Portage-Lisker relative to everywhere else in the country. It was the

00:13:13.720 strongest writing, and I know you obviously want to win, but as far as the bigger picture here, what do

00:13:19.020 you consider a win short of a victory on the ballot? I mean, do you feel that you need to get

00:13:25.300 that 20% of the vote to prove that the PPC is still the force it was in 2021?

00:13:32.940 I like your question, Andrew. A win is a win. So a win for me will be to be the MP for people in Portage-Lisker.

00:13:42.740 And I'm here campaigning full-time for them. My schedule is full, and I'm very pleased with that.

00:13:49.020 So for me, a win is to be their MP the night of the election. And I believe that it's doable.

00:13:54.680 We have a strong team, and people understand they have the opportunity to send a message to Ottawa

00:14:00.680 right now. And you know, it's not about spitting the vote. That ridiculous argument is not valid.

00:14:08.340 We won't change the government. The Trudeau government will be there after the election. 0.71

00:14:13.080 So it's safe for them to vote for the PPC, to vote for me. And actually, I will be their insurance policy

00:14:20.220 that Poliev, if he has the courage to be a conservative, I will support him. But I will

00:14:28.340 bring that debate in Ottawa, and I will support Poliev when or if he is a real conservative with

00:14:34.940 real conservative family values. So it's a win-win for people in this writing, and they understand

00:14:40.500 that. That's why my answer to your question is, a win is a win.

00:14:45.160 No, and I appreciate that. And it's always funny when you see politicians who lose, and then they

00:14:49.700 get on stage and try to find a way to make it seem like they really won, like the popular vote or

00:14:54.240 something. But the point, I guess, that I was getting at there, Maxime, is that a lot of political

00:14:58.980 columnists in Ottawa, who I know are not always the most credible sources, have said that the PPC's

00:15:04.160 success in 2021 was kind of a temporary blip because of the pandemic. There was this frustration

00:15:10.740 with all of these circumstances that might not be there right now. And I guess I'm just curious

00:15:16.140 what, for you, the stakes are if you don't do as well as your candidate in 2021 did.

00:15:21.120 I must say, Andrew, that all these mainstream media journalists, they said the same thing

00:15:29.500 in 2019. When we had 1.6% of the vote, they said, oh, that's the end of that party. Goodbye,

00:15:37.140 Bernier. They all wrote that. And now after the last election, 5%, they were a little bit

00:15:42.760 surprised and didn't have any choice to cover my election the last three weeks of the last

00:15:48.100 campaign. And now they're saying, and 5%. And now they're saying, oh, you know, Bernie

00:15:54.340 won't do anything. He won't be able to have 20%, 25%. He won't be able to do like his candidates.

00:16:00.660 So I don't want to answer that. You know, for me, they are not credible. I'm here on the

00:16:05.860 ground with the people. And that's why I believe I can win this riding. And I spoke with my people

00:16:11.980 on the ground, and they are in agreement with me, and they're working hard for that. We'll see

00:16:17.040 what will happen. But for me, I strongly believe that it's a riding that I can win. And I'm doing

00:16:23.340 all the effort to do that. So what these journalists are writing, it's not important for me. And I don't

00:16:31.040 mind. Manitoba is a bit of an interesting province for you to be running in because you're a convict

00:16:37.240 in Manitoba now. I mean, as of yesterday, the court has put this, I think it was a $2,000 fine on you

00:16:43.200 for campaigning in Manitoba. And I played that clip of your arrest back then when you gave that

00:16:48.620 famous line, and the police officer asked if you had any weapons. And you said only your words,

00:16:53.680 which I thought was quite brilliant and quite clever. But let's talk about why you decided to

00:17:00.480 not fight this as much. Because a lot of people have been looking at the legal challenges that

00:17:06.400 are underway and really hoping that there's going to be this reckoning in the court system

00:17:10.000 on COVID penalties. But you actually pleaded out, as I understand.

00:17:14.840 Yeah, what I said, it's very important. I didn't say that I'm guilty of anything,

00:17:19.380 because under a provincial law, you're not guilty. So what I said to save money for the taxpayer here

00:17:25.480 in Manitoba, and to save court time, because it was supposed to be a three days hearing, it was only

00:17:31.520 half a day, half a day, I said, you know, and I'm a responsible politician. I said, yes, I was there.

00:17:37.580 I did a meeting in a park, and I didn't want all the police and all these witnesses saying that I was

00:17:46.720 there. So I did admit that I was there. And I did that. I did admit that it was not in line with the

00:17:55.860 regulations at that time. So because of this admission of facts, we had an argument only on

00:18:02.460 the penalties, the fines. So and you asked a good question, why not appealing to that decision and

00:18:09.580 going to the appeal court? Because here in Manitoba, there one case that is right now in front, before,

00:18:18.300 sorry, before the appeal court of Manitoba, about the same subject, illegal gathering in a park. So

00:18:26.100 that's why we will have a decision from, from the appeal court, maybe this year about that. So I

00:18:32.520 didn't need to appeal that. So for me, I'm responsible, I said I was that. And also, I had time to speak to

00:18:39.520 the judge. And I told the judge that all these regulations were unconstitutional, illegal, immoral,

00:18:45.420 and I'm not appealing your decision, because there's a case and we'll know what the appeal

00:18:50.600 court will say. But at the same time, don't forget, Andrew, I'm appealing a decision from the federal

00:18:56.220 court with Brian Petford about my right and the right of Canadians to be able to travel freely across

00:19:02.360 our country. We are appealing the decision of the vaccine passport that were imposed by the

00:19:07.320 federal government, because we had a decision not in our favor at the federal court. So we are

00:19:14.440 appealing that and we will go up to the federal court, to the Supreme Court, sorry, about that case.

00:19:21.620 All right, Maxime Bernier, by-election candidate in Portage-Lisker and leader of the People's Party

00:19:27.240 of Canada. What are you most looking forward to about being back on the campaign trail?

00:19:31.840 Yes, I'm going back. We have a rally tonight with Laura Lynn Thompson. And, you know, it's a huge

00:19:39.240 riding. I'm a little bit surprised, you know, going to one part of the riding to the other part

00:19:44.120 of the riding by car. It would be, it can be two hours. So I'll be on my car. I will be in each

00:19:50.020 corner of this riding and I'm having fun here. I know that you may, you may see it, but I'm having

00:19:55.440 fun. It's great. We'll see. And I hope that you'll be able to cover our campaign. And I'm very

00:20:00.620 pleased that I had the opportunity to be with you, Andrew. All right. Thank you very much,

00:20:05.240 Maxime Bernier. Good to talk to you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to The Andrew

00:20:09.580 Lawton Show. Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - May 17, 2023

Maxime Bernier wants to ＂reopen the abortion debate＂

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