Juno News - MLA pushes for Alberta independence referendum

00:00:00.000 You're tuned in to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:00:07.720 We know, and we actually talked about just a few weeks back with Premier Kenney,

00:00:12.260 that Albertans are going to be having a referendum on equalization.

00:00:15.660 But is it time to move beyond that and have a referendum on independence,

00:00:20.080 the logical next step in the discussion about Western alienation and Western separation

00:00:24.940 that we've been covering on this show for quite some time now?

00:00:27.920 Well, MLA Drew Barnes, a UCP MLA that we've had on the program in the past,

00:00:32.600 says that the next provincial election in Alberta needs to have a referendum on independence.

00:00:38.180 Drew Barnes joins me now.

00:00:39.640 Drew, good to talk to you again. Thanks for your time today.

00:00:42.100 Good morning, Andrew.

00:00:43.540 So we've understood that this is meant to be a process of escalation in some ways,

00:00:48.660 where you have the fair deal panel and then you have the equalization referendum,

00:00:52.960 and then from there you negotiate with the government federally

00:00:56.760 and see what you can come up with.

00:00:58.460 Why are you saying it's time to go right to having that referendum on independence?

00:01:03.140 Well, for a couple of main reasons.

00:01:07.040 You know, let's suppose the equalization referendum passes.

00:01:11.780 I solidly believe it will by a large margin.

00:01:15.120 But then Ottawa needs to be put on notice, first and foremost, that Albertans are feeling the despair.

00:01:23.440 You know, there's a lot of frustration out here.

00:01:25.900 And Albertans want to take risk and we want to be successful.

00:01:29.620 And with the current situation, that's not happening.

00:01:33.240 So Ottawa needs to know that there will be consequences if they don't give Alberta a fair deal,

00:01:41.360 if they don't give Alberta equality, and if they don't give us resource movement.

00:01:46.660 And, you know, we can come back to that.

00:01:48.960 And secondly, Andrew, you know, I'm grateful I had a chance to be on the fair deal panel.

00:01:52.980 That's a year ago.

00:01:54.040 I'm grateful that I've had the opportunity to represent Cypress Medicine Hat for about 10 years now.

00:01:58.960 I'm in my third term.

00:02:01.180 And Albertans are the ones that need to decide if Ottawa has given us a fair deal.

00:02:07.760 And the best way to do that is with an independence referendum about 16, 17 months after the equalization

00:02:14.420 referendum, at the same time as we're having our provincial election.

00:02:18.820 You know, Andrew, on the fair deal panel, and I hear it every day in coffee shops and around

00:02:23.700 Alberta and around Medicine Hat.

00:02:25.700 That what Albertans want to push, Albertans are to the point where they want a fair deal

00:02:33.360 from our Canadian partners from Ottawa.

00:02:36.020 Many of them are willing to open the Constitution and look at Senate reform.

00:02:40.980 Equalization is part of the Constitution.

00:02:44.020 So that needs to be open for that to come out.

00:02:47.560 Frustrated with the lack of resource movement.

00:02:49.440 So the best way to hold Ottawa accountable, to let Ottawa know what the consequences are,

00:02:55.360 is let Albertans decide if they've gone far enough to make us an equal part of Canada.

00:02:59.860 One thing that I've seen just in talking about this issue, and even being out at those conferences,

00:03:05.300 the Freedom Talk conferences, where I've had the chance to speak with you, there seems to be a

00:03:09.440 split in a lot of people that would fall under that banner of experiencing Western alienation,

00:03:14.180 where some say, listen, you know, the Canadian Confederation experiment is done, Alberta's

00:03:18.980 getting shafted, we want out.

00:03:20.600 And other people that say, if we could achieve X, Y, and Z, we could get to a point where this

00:03:25.780 is a workable arrangement for us.

00:03:27.700 And I would say that everyone agrees that the equalization formula is broken.

00:03:31.740 But independence, that group that says, you know what, we need to get out, there's no hope,

00:03:36.160 we can't fix this, that we can't work within.

00:03:37.900 And that's a smaller subset, just naturally, than the larger one of people that want to

00:03:43.180 work within this.

00:03:44.060 So do you feel that there's a risk that you could actually reveal that this is just a

00:03:48.420 minority position, if you had a referendum, that goes right to that final no turning back

00:03:53.800 independence question?

00:03:55.740 Yeah, thanks for that question.

00:03:56.800 I think the risk is those in Ottawa, and those that believe Alberta can be a valuable part

00:04:04.200 of the Canadian Confederation.

00:04:05.780 Andrew, the desire for out and out independence has grown exponentially here in Alberta.

00:04:13.780 It has grown tremendously, as people, you know, frustrated with not having a voice in our

00:04:19.840 Senate, not having a voice in our elections, as people who want to take risk and go to work

00:04:24.660 and produce, you know, environmentally clean products, can't do it.

00:04:31.080 And many of them have moved to the independence.

00:04:34.200 So I think a lot of the risk is on Ottawa's side.

00:04:37.660 If they don't get it right, this movement could grow to the point where you can't put

00:04:43.740 the toothpaste back in the tube.

00:04:45.920 And so that's where I think the real risk is.

00:04:50.540 Yes, there's a lot of people that have sentimental attachment to see the value in still being

00:04:56.220 part of Canada.

00:04:57.840 But at least 80% of the people in the Fair Deal panel and the people I talk to say that

00:05:03.120 Alberta is getting the short straw.

00:05:05.780 And it is time for us to push and see if we can get a better deal with within the Canadian

00:05:10.520 Confederation, and if not, explore all our options.

00:05:14.360 And one of those options is independence.

00:05:16.400 So when you say independence, you're talking about, you know, the Republic of Alberta, so

00:05:21.320 to speak, not just a system where you have your own pension plan, your own municipal police

00:05:26.700 force or a provincial police force, but you're also opening the door to the fact that there

00:05:31.820 could be remedies before you get to that point.

00:05:35.880 Yeah, yeah.

00:05:37.260 Let's look at Saskatchewan right next door. 0.98

00:05:39.580 Premier Moe, give or take three months ago, appointed a Minister of Autonomy to explore

00:05:45.100 ways that Saskatchewan could be more autonomous from Ottawa and do more things on their own.

00:05:49.640 So, you know, and we're 20 years ago, this February, that the famous firewall letter of

00:05:58.300 Stephen Harper, Tom Flanagan, Ken Busengall, Andy Crooks, said that one of the things that

00:06:03.660 Alberta and the West needs to do to grow, to assert our independence from Ottawa, so we

00:06:10.260 can be stronger, is to do things you just mentioned.

00:06:12.940 Our own pension is an example.

00:06:14.480 I've seen experts suggest that if Alberta had its own pension, the people of Alberta would

00:06:19.740 have a $3 billion annual benefit.

00:06:22.760 So whether we gave, you know, our seniors a larger benefit or we gave our employees and

00:06:28.180 our employers less contribution, either one would help Albertans.

00:06:32.520 Likewise, our own police force, you know, Ontario and Quebec both have their own provincial police

00:06:37.840 force.

00:06:39.260 You know, you know, God bless the individual RCMP officers for how hard they work and what

00:06:44.120 they do for us.

00:06:45.220 But rural crime is horrendous here right now.

00:06:48.080 And, you know, as the economy is having trouble, I mean, it's probably only going to get worse.

00:06:53.980 Likewise, there's a lot of Albertans that think it's time for more control of our immigration.

00:06:59.840 We have a pretty big greenhouse industry in southern Alberta.

00:07:04.440 And from time to time, these risk takers, these great producers have trouble getting people.

00:07:09.300 So a little more local decision making would make that easier.

00:07:12.280 So, yeah, so I think the steps are, you know, let's make sure that Ottawa is 100% aware of

00:07:21.480 how unequal the deal is.

00:07:24.080 Andrew, how they could not be after the $670 billion that Alberta has sent to Ottawa since

00:07:30.260 1960.

00:07:31.480 But let's put the cards on the table and let's make Alberta the freest, most prosperous place.

00:07:37.420 And I've said it before, if that's within Canada, that's great.

00:07:40.740 If that's not within Canada, that's great.

00:07:43.040 But it doesn't seem like the only opposition to this is from Ottawa.

00:07:46.940 I mean, even your own party's leader, Jason Kenney, the premier, has said that he expects

00:07:51.420 that UCP MLAs will call for united Canada and a fight within confederation.

00:07:57.000 So he's saying that's the commitment that UCP candidates were supposed to make to voters.

00:08:01.340 Do you feel like you have an ally in your premier on this?

00:08:05.960 Well, I do.

00:08:07.540 I believe that Premier Kenney wants Alberta to be free and prosperous and strong.

00:08:13.160 And, you know, I have no idea of all the things that are, you know, that are happening with

00:08:21.120 him.

00:08:21.380 But let's look at Trudeau's reaction to the Keystone being cancelled about a week ago.

00:08:28.440 You know, 800 and some thousand barrels of oil per day that would provide lots of jobs,

00:08:34.820 lots of taxes, lots of for our municipalities, for our health care, for our education.

00:08:40.120 And Andrew, when it was cancelled, he didn't even raise an eyebrow.

00:08:42.660 What I'm hearing is the Trans Mountain Pipeline, you know, the twinning, where 90% of it's

00:08:48.660 in the same right-of-way as the existing Trans Mountain Pipeline that's been there since

00:08:52.320 the early 1950s.

00:08:53.760 I'm hearing that's progressing at a snail's pace.

00:08:57.500 The cancellation of the Northern Gateway, the message has been so clear that getting

00:09:05.220 Canadian oil and gas to China and India would do so much to improve the air quality of the

00:09:11.940 world, it would allow us to get full price for our bitumen instead of the 30% approximately

00:09:18.220 discount we average selling it to the Americans.

00:09:21.280 And what would that do for opportunity for Albertans and Canadians?

00:09:25.040 What would that do for our social programs?

00:09:26.860 It would do so much.

00:09:28.600 I think I saw on social media last night that a Conservative member of Parliament tried to

00:09:35.000 put in a private member's motion or bill to end the tanker ban.

00:09:40.540 And of course, the NDP and the Liberals voted against that.

00:09:44.360 My goodness, Andrew, they're not treating Alberta fairly.

00:09:48.320 They're not giving the best environmental producers in the world a chance to produce,

00:09:53.700 to make a living, to pay taxes, and to make the air of the world cleaner.

00:09:58.680 No, and I'm glad you brought up Keystone because I think Western alienation and Western independent 0.68

00:10:03.880 sentiments had been on the rise already.

00:10:06.400 But you take the cancellation of Keystone.

00:10:09.760 Now Line 5 is also on thin ice, it seems.

00:10:13.860 You have a number of other projects where there's been great opposition in other provinces in this

00:10:18.240 country and from the federal government.

00:10:19.740 And how is anyone in the West supposed to feel that anyone else in the country cares about their

00:10:24.500 future when these things keep happening?

00:10:26.540 So I do think, to your earlier point, these concerns are only going to grow.

00:10:32.700 Yeah, they're only going to grow.

00:10:34.620 And again, I'm grateful and fortunate that for 10 years I've represented Cypress Medicine Hat.

00:10:38.760 I've been paid to speak on their behalf.

00:10:40.640 10 years ago, we were talking about this daily.

00:10:43.000 Well, 20 years ago, you met the firewall letter.

00:10:44.980 I mean, this is not a new problem.

00:10:47.700 It's not a new problem.

00:10:48.680 It's been around 20 years since things were identified to help make Alberta a stronger

00:10:54.240 part of Canada so there'd be more opportunity for all of us.

00:10:58.720 And it just hasn't happened.

00:11:01.040 And, you know, there's a lot of Albertans now that are starting to believe, Andrew,

00:11:05.420 that the values of Ottawa are not consistent with the values out here as well.

00:11:11.540 And that's the risk that Ottawa is taking.

00:11:14.260 And that's why about a year and a half after the equalization referendum, we need to give

00:11:20.460 Albertans a chance to decide if Ottawa has gone far enough to give us a fair deal.

00:11:25.520 There's many grievances out here.

00:11:27.700 People that just want to work hard, take risks and pay their taxes, raise their families and

00:11:31.840 support their communities.

00:11:33.860 And at a time, you know, where up until the pandemic, the world demand for oil was growing.

00:11:40.480 We're seeing the world price for oil start to escalate again while we're at a 30% discount.

00:11:46.860 And, you know, again, I, you know, I hate to come back to the hardship, but there's a lot of

00:11:52.260 hardship out here from young families that just want to work.

00:11:56.100 So just to confirm here, you still think, yes, we need to do the equalization referendum,

00:12:00.520 but you also think that we need to have a further longer term look at this as well,

00:12:05.880 the independence referendum and leverage both to get a better deal, but also be prepared

00:12:10.520 to walk away.

00:12:12.340 Yes, absolutely.

00:12:13.640 To all three.

00:12:15.980 You know, Albertans have expressed loud and clear for many years that it's time for change.

00:12:23.080 The number that I saw last was $670 billion has left Alberta since 1960 and gone to the

00:12:31.080 Canadian Confederation and, and we can't even get a resource movement in exchange to continue that,

00:12:38.420 you know, there's something broken.

00:12:40.060 So, you know, Andrew, nothing moves unless it's pushed.

00:12:43.640 Albertans are telling me every day that they want a new deal with Ottawa.

00:12:47.900 And if they can't get a new deal with Ottawa as an, as a free sovereign people, we need to

00:12:53.140 decide our future.

00:12:54.440 Cyprus, Madison Hat MLA, Drew Barnes.

00:12:56.940 Drew, thanks again for your time today.

00:12:58.280 Really appreciate it.

00:12:59.420 Thank you, Andrew.

00:13:00.280 Appreciate it.

00:13:01.080 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:13:03.620 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - February 05, 2021

MLA pushes for Alberta independence referendum

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