Juno News - February 05, 2021MLA pushes for Alberta independence referendum
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Summary
In this episode, UCP's Drew Barnes joins me to talk about why Alberta should hold a referendum on independence from Canada. He explains why it's time to move beyond the Equalization Referendum, and talk about the benefits of an independent Alberta.
Transcript
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We know, and we actually talked about just a few weeks back with Premier Kenney,
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that Albertans are going to be having a referendum on equalization.
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But is it time to move beyond that and have a referendum on independence,
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the logical next step in the discussion about Western alienation and Western separation
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that we've been covering on this show for quite some time now?
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Well, MLA Drew Barnes, a UCP MLA that we've had on the program in the past,
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says that the next provincial election in Alberta needs to have a referendum on independence.
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Drew, good to talk to you again. Thanks for your time today.
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So we've understood that this is meant to be a process of escalation in some ways,
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where you have the fair deal panel and then you have the equalization referendum,
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and then from there you negotiate with the government federally
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Why are you saying it's time to go right to having that referendum on independence?
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You know, let's suppose the equalization referendum passes.
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But then Ottawa needs to be put on notice, first and foremost, that Albertans are feeling the despair.
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You know, there's a lot of frustration out here.
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And Albertans want to take risk and we want to be successful.
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And with the current situation, that's not happening.
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So Ottawa needs to know that there will be consequences if they don't give Alberta a fair deal,
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if they don't give Alberta equality, and if they don't give us resource movement.
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And secondly, Andrew, you know, I'm grateful I had a chance to be on the fair deal panel.
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I'm grateful that I've had the opportunity to represent Cypress Medicine Hat for about 10 years now.
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And Albertans are the ones that need to decide if Ottawa has given us a fair deal.
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And the best way to do that is with an independence referendum about 16, 17 months after the equalization
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referendum, at the same time as we're having our provincial election.
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You know, Andrew, on the fair deal panel, and I hear it every day in coffee shops and around
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That what Albertans want to push, Albertans are to the point where they want a fair deal
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Many of them are willing to open the Constitution and look at Senate reform.
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So the best way to hold Ottawa accountable, to let Ottawa know what the consequences are,
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is let Albertans decide if they've gone far enough to make us an equal part of Canada.
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One thing that I've seen just in talking about this issue, and even being out at those conferences,
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the Freedom Talk conferences, where I've had the chance to speak with you, there seems to be a
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split in a lot of people that would fall under that banner of experiencing Western alienation,
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where some say, listen, you know, the Canadian Confederation experiment is done, Alberta's
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And other people that say, if we could achieve X, Y, and Z, we could get to a point where this
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And I would say that everyone agrees that the equalization formula is broken.
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But independence, that group that says, you know what, we need to get out, there's no hope,
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And that's a smaller subset, just naturally, than the larger one of people that want to
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So do you feel that there's a risk that you could actually reveal that this is just a
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minority position, if you had a referendum, that goes right to that final no turning back
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I think the risk is those in Ottawa, and those that believe Alberta can be a valuable part
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Andrew, the desire for out and out independence has grown exponentially here in Alberta.
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It has grown tremendously, as people, you know, frustrated with not having a voice in our
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Senate, not having a voice in our elections, as people who want to take risk and go to work
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and produce, you know, environmentally clean products, can't do it.
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And many of them have moved to the independence.
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So I think a lot of the risk is on Ottawa's side.
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If they don't get it right, this movement could grow to the point where you can't put
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Yes, there's a lot of people that have sentimental attachment to see the value in still being
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But at least 80% of the people in the Fair Deal panel and the people I talk to say that
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And it is time for us to push and see if we can get a better deal with within the Canadian
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Confederation, and if not, explore all our options.
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So when you say independence, you're talking about, you know, the Republic of Alberta, so
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to speak, not just a system where you have your own pension plan, your own municipal police
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force or a provincial police force, but you're also opening the door to the fact that there
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could be remedies before you get to that point.
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Let's look at Saskatchewan right next door.
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Premier Moe, give or take three months ago, appointed a Minister of Autonomy to explore
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ways that Saskatchewan could be more autonomous from Ottawa and do more things on their own.
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So, you know, and we're 20 years ago, this February, that the famous firewall letter of
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Stephen Harper, Tom Flanagan, Ken Busengall, Andy Crooks, said that one of the things that
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Alberta and the West needs to do to grow, to assert our independence from Ottawa, so we
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can be stronger, is to do things you just mentioned.
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I've seen experts suggest that if Alberta had its own pension, the people of Alberta would
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So whether we gave, you know, our seniors a larger benefit or we gave our employees and
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our employers less contribution, either one would help Albertans.
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Likewise, our own police force, you know, Ontario and Quebec both have their own provincial police
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You know, you know, God bless the individual RCMP officers for how hard they work and what
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And, you know, as the economy is having trouble, I mean, it's probably only going to get worse.
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Likewise, there's a lot of Albertans that think it's time for more control of our immigration.
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We have a pretty big greenhouse industry in southern Alberta.
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And from time to time, these risk takers, these great producers have trouble getting people.
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So a little more local decision making would make that easier.
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So, yeah, so I think the steps are, you know, let's make sure that Ottawa is 100% aware of
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Andrew, how they could not be after the $670 billion that Alberta has sent to Ottawa since
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But let's put the cards on the table and let's make Alberta the freest, most prosperous place.
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And I've said it before, if that's within Canada, that's great.
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But it doesn't seem like the only opposition to this is from Ottawa.
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I mean, even your own party's leader, Jason Kenney, the premier, has said that he expects
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that UCP MLAs will call for united Canada and a fight within confederation.
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So he's saying that's the commitment that UCP candidates were supposed to make to voters.
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Do you feel like you have an ally in your premier on this?
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I believe that Premier Kenney wants Alberta to be free and prosperous and strong.
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And, you know, I have no idea of all the things that are, you know, that are happening with
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But let's look at Trudeau's reaction to the Keystone being cancelled about a week ago.
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You know, 800 and some thousand barrels of oil per day that would provide lots of jobs,
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lots of taxes, lots of for our municipalities, for our health care, for our education.
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And Andrew, when it was cancelled, he didn't even raise an eyebrow.
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What I'm hearing is the Trans Mountain Pipeline, you know, the twinning, where 90% of it's
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in the same right-of-way as the existing Trans Mountain Pipeline that's been there since
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I'm hearing that's progressing at a snail's pace.
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The cancellation of the Northern Gateway, the message has been so clear that getting
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Canadian oil and gas to China and India would do so much to improve the air quality of the
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world, it would allow us to get full price for our bitumen instead of the 30% approximately
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discount we average selling it to the Americans.
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And what would that do for opportunity for Albertans and Canadians?
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I think I saw on social media last night that a Conservative member of Parliament tried to
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put in a private member's motion or bill to end the tanker ban.
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And of course, the NDP and the Liberals voted against that.
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My goodness, Andrew, they're not treating Alberta fairly.
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They're not giving the best environmental producers in the world a chance to produce,
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to make a living, to pay taxes, and to make the air of the world cleaner.
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No, and I'm glad you brought up Keystone because I think Western alienation and Western independent
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You have a number of other projects where there's been great opposition in other provinces in this
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And how is anyone in the West supposed to feel that anyone else in the country cares about their
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So I do think, to your earlier point, these concerns are only going to grow.
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And again, I'm grateful and fortunate that for 10 years I've represented Cypress Medicine Hat.
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10 years ago, we were talking about this daily.
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Well, 20 years ago, you met the firewall letter.
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It's been around 20 years since things were identified to help make Alberta a stronger
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part of Canada so there'd be more opportunity for all of us.
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And, you know, there's a lot of Albertans now that are starting to believe, Andrew,
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that the values of Ottawa are not consistent with the values out here as well.
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And that's why about a year and a half after the equalization referendum, we need to give
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Albertans a chance to decide if Ottawa has gone far enough to give us a fair deal.
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People that just want to work hard, take risks and pay their taxes, raise their families and
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And at a time, you know, where up until the pandemic, the world demand for oil was growing.
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We're seeing the world price for oil start to escalate again while we're at a 30% discount.
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And, you know, again, I, you know, I hate to come back to the hardship, but there's a lot of
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hardship out here from young families that just want to work.
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So just to confirm here, you still think, yes, we need to do the equalization referendum,
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but you also think that we need to have a further longer term look at this as well,
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the independence referendum and leverage both to get a better deal, but also be prepared
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You know, Albertans have expressed loud and clear for many years that it's time for change.
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The number that I saw last was $670 billion has left Alberta since 1960 and gone to the
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Canadian Confederation and, and we can't even get a resource movement in exchange to continue that,
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So, you know, Andrew, nothing moves unless it's pushed.
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Albertans are telling me every day that they want a new deal with Ottawa.
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And if they can't get a new deal with Ottawa as an, as a free sovereign people, we need to
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Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
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