Juno News - MLA urges Albertans to vote ‘yes’ to end equalization

00:00:00.000 Welcome back to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:00:10.260 We've been given a fair bit of attention in the last few weeks

00:00:13.320 to the upcoming equalization referendum in Alberta

00:00:16.520 coming up in just 11 days.

00:00:18.960 And I would say just before we get into the discussion here,

00:00:21.740 there's not been a lot of coverage of it at all,

00:00:24.180 certainly in the national mainstream media.

00:00:26.500 I know we had a federal election,

00:00:27.800 but even so, a lot of the problems we've been talking about for years

00:00:31.780 about Western alienation, a growing independence movement,

00:00:35.420 a lot of these are going to be assessed in this referendum,

00:00:38.440 which is asking Albertans on October 18th

00:00:41.020 whether they think equalization should be removed from the Constitution.

00:00:45.340 Obviously, a bit of an uphill battle getting that adopted by the federal government,

00:00:49.560 but still a very necessary discussion.

00:00:52.460 And one I want to have with MLA Drew Barnes.

00:00:54.920 He represents Cypress Medicine Hat.

00:00:56.680 He's an independent, but previously sat in the UCP caucus

00:01:00.060 and was also on the Fair Deal panel.

00:01:02.220 And we've talked to him about that in the past.

00:01:04.360 Drew, it's good to talk to you again.

00:01:05.500 Thanks for coming on today.

00:01:07.380 Good morning, Andrew.

00:01:08.640 So let's start set the stage here for this referendum.

00:01:12.080 How important is this?

00:01:13.520 Is this kind of the be all and end all of the independence fight right now?

00:01:17.020 Or is it just one of many tools that should be looked at by Albertans?

00:01:20.720 Well, thank you.

00:01:22.100 It's very important.

00:01:23.460 It's a necessary first step for over 80% of Albertans that want a fairer deal with Ottawa.

00:01:29.920 Yes, for some of them, that fairer deal is independence.

00:01:32.920 But for most, it's about the opportunity to have a fair deal,

00:01:37.240 more economic freedom for their families and their communities.

00:01:40.500 Hey, let's not forget that since 1965, Alberta has sent $650 billion to Ottawa.

00:01:46.920 Most of it gets redistributed to Quebec and the Maritimes.

00:01:50.340 And equalization has become the buzzword for all of the inequities,

00:01:55.440 whether it's unfair treatment in the Supreme Court, the House of Commons, the Senate,

00:02:01.220 and the lack of resource movement.

00:02:03.980 The average everyday Albertan is upset and realizes this is the first step.

00:02:08.320 Is your sense that the Jason Kenney government is having this referendum

00:02:13.020 to sort of check the box and say, yeah, we're listening?

00:02:16.080 Or do you think they actually want this to succeed?

00:02:18.180 And the reason I ask that is because I have not heard a lot of advocacy

00:02:21.600 from Premier Kenney on this referendum.

00:02:24.160 And I've not really heard any encouragement from the government, by and large,

00:02:27.240 telling people they should vote yes on it.

00:02:30.240 Yeah, exactly.

00:02:31.020 You know, Jason Kenney's been totally invisible.

00:02:33.560 Once again, he's not meeting expectations.

00:02:35.540 He's not getting behind his own referendum to vote yes to end equalization,

00:02:41.180 take equalization out of Clause 36, Subsection 2.

00:02:45.940 You know, maybe it's because his popularity is so low.

00:02:49.020 In Alberta, Andrew, his popularity is less than even Justin Trudeau's.

00:02:53.800 It's absolutely amazing.

00:02:55.300 But it's unexplainable how this is his referendum.

00:02:58.920 This was his question.

00:02:59.900 He campaigned on it.

00:03:00.880 And now he's totally invisible.

00:03:03.220 But, you know, I don't know his rationale for that.

00:03:06.740 But I do know what Albertans are saying to me in the coffee shop.

00:03:10.220 Most of them are saying it's time to push for a fair deal with Ottawa.

00:03:14.380 It's time to push for an end to equalization.

00:03:16.840 It's time to push for pipelines and resource movement.

00:03:19.620 And if we can't get that, second, they'll decide how they will hold Ottawa accountable.

00:03:24.100 One of the concerns that I've heard from a lot of people that are on your team on this,

00:03:28.820 they want equalization over, is that because there's not been a lot of discussion about

00:03:33.520 this referendum, because a lot of Albertans don't know what's happening or don't necessarily

00:03:37.220 know the stakes of it, it could have a very underwhelming turnout or it could fail.

00:03:42.600 And I'm curious what the implications of that would be at the risk of putting the cart

00:03:47.080 before the horse.

00:03:47.740 If this doesn't have an overwhelming showing that is lining up with yes, what's that going

00:03:52.000 to mean for the people that have been talking about these issues that you've just brought

00:03:55.080 up?

00:03:56.340 Well, we've seen a lot of left-wing academics.

00:03:59.600 We've seen a lot of people that believe in big, big government say that this is the

00:04:04.500 opportunity to come out and vote to keep equalization, just to send a strong signal against Jason

00:04:10.380 Kenney and how so many Albertans feel he hasn't met expectations.

00:04:14.020 But Andrew, I will say this, and I'm so grateful for all the volunteers in the third-party

00:04:19.960 advertiser that have asked me to work with him, vote yes to end equalization.

00:04:24.220 Canadian Taxpayers Federation has worked hard.

00:04:27.200 Bill Buick and another PAC has worked hard to get the message out.

00:04:32.200 When I talk to Albertans, they know that this is a crucial first step to increase economic

00:04:38.040 freedom, increase prosperity for Alberta families and communities.

00:04:41.520 And Andrew, let's not forget it's good for Canada.

00:04:44.000 When Alberta's strong, you know, we pay lots of taxes.

00:04:46.740 We provide lots of jobs for all Canadians.

00:04:49.620 This is a necessary step to make Alberta free and prosperous, and if Canada wants, bring

00:04:55.760 them along with it.

00:04:56.920 One of the things that's come up in the past with the Alberta independence discussions,

00:05:01.500 and not secession, but asserting more independence and autonomy as a province, is that there are

00:05:06.440 a number of things that provinces could do unilaterally, like launch an Alberta police force,

00:05:11.540 launch an Alberta pension plan, basically recreate a lot of the Quebec sovereignty measures.

00:05:16.580 But in Alberta, and this is not something that depends on equalization as directly, and

00:05:22.160 I think that these are still things you'd agree should be pursued by Alberta, regardless

00:05:26.140 of what happens on the 18th, right?

00:05:28.620 Absolutely.

00:05:29.660 Alberta having its own pension plan would be a $3 billion net benefit to Albertans.

00:05:35.040 So, you know, seniors right now, they can't afford to pay their utilities.

00:05:38.260 We could give them a decent retirement benefit, or we could have lower premiums for employees

00:05:44.000 and employers.

00:05:45.180 You know, either would be good.

00:05:46.760 Our own police force, I mean, God bless the individual RCMP officers, but they're so overtaxed

00:05:52.140 here with rural crime.

00:05:53.740 Something needs to be changed there.

00:05:55.980 And, Andrew, let's not forget that it's almost 21 years since the famous Alberta agenda letter,

00:06:01.300 you know, called the firewall letter, penned by Stephen Harper, Ted Morton, Ken Boozencall,

00:06:06.140 Andy Crooks, and others.

00:06:07.080 And nothing's been done.

00:06:08.600 And it's time to gain this leverage with Ottawa that, you know, we want equality, we want

00:06:14.400 fairness, or we want to look at things differently.

00:06:18.040 And yeah, absolutely, whatever the outcome of the vote Yaston equalization referendum on

00:06:23.500 October 18th, all those Alberta agenda items need to be pursued and implemented.

00:06:27.860 Let's talk about equalization specifically, because the constitutional amendment being sought

00:06:32.580 would basically take that section out of the Constitution that requires equalization.

00:06:37.760 Constitutional changes are virtually impossible in the Canadian political system, especially

00:06:42.440 because they would require buy-in from provinces who are receiving equalization.

00:06:47.680 Changing the formula could be done by federal cabinet.

00:06:50.560 I know Maxime Bernier has said, you know, he was in cabinet once when they changed the formula

00:06:54.540 within the course of a three-hour meeting.

00:06:56.300 So that's an easier hurdle.

00:06:57.980 But that nuance is not reflected in the referendum question.

00:07:02.240 So what I would ask here is, would you settle for a change of the formula that was a bit

00:07:07.720 fairer?

00:07:08.260 Do you think it needs to go entirely?

00:07:10.480 I believe it needs to go entirely.

00:07:13.640 Again, first of all, because I mean, any political movement could change it and change it back to,

00:07:18.640 you know, Alberta's disadvantage, which again is Canada's disadvantage.

00:07:23.220 And the fact that the Quebec Succession Act, the Clarity Act of 1998, set out a mechanism

00:07:29.460 where Alberta has, Alberta, I'm sorry, where Ottawa has to deal with a strong yes vote to

00:07:36.820 a clear question.

00:07:38.160 And the fact that that's leaked independence is kind of ironic in Quebec in 1998.

00:07:43.060 Yeah, no, there's other constitutional issues that have to be addressed, like the inequity

00:07:47.960 in the Supreme Court, the inequity in the House of Commons, how ineffective and useless

00:07:52.880 the Senate is.

00:07:54.260 So yeah, Albertans are telling me they want to push back.

00:07:57.460 Let's get equalization out of there so we can plan for the future and Alberta can be 1.00

00:08:03.800 free and prosperous.

00:08:05.580 What are the big, let me take a step back here and ask this a different way.

00:08:10.040 Obviously, I know most small C conservatives are in favor of scrapping equalization.

00:08:14.700 I also haven't heard too, too much from Rachel Notley and the NDP on this.

00:08:18.660 And I'm curious if this is a left-right issue or if the battle lines are a bit different.

00:08:24.860 Oh, it's absolutely a left-right issue.

00:08:28.100 The NDP, you know, believes in big government, believes in wealth transfer.

00:08:33.060 Clearly, they believe in as much money coming out of Alberta as possible.

00:08:38.680 That's why they were so devastating in their four years in government here in Alberta.

00:08:42.740 But I would suggest that Rachel Notley is looking at how low, low Jason Kenney's popularity

00:08:49.100 is in Alberta when a lot of her people and public servants are saying, hey, let's vote 0.65

00:08:55.400 to keep equalization just to send Jason Kenney a message with how disappointed we are that

00:08:59.880 he hasn't met expectations.

00:09:01.660 She's probably just letting that play out.

00:09:03.940 All the more reason, Andrew, that Albertans everywhere need to get out and vote yes to

00:09:08.760 end equalization so Alberta families and communities can be stronger, so Canada can be stronger.

00:09:14.940 So how does ending equalization make Canada stronger?

00:09:19.200 Well, first of all, right now the equalization formula is so, it's unclear, it's had unintended

00:09:25.740 consequences.

00:09:27.040 You know, it's clear that some provinces don't develop their resources, don't develop their

00:09:30.920 revenue base, so they won't affect their ability to collect equalization dollars from Alberta

00:09:37.100 through Ottawa, so a system where Alberta, first of all, could be stronger, so there'd be

00:09:43.400 more job opportunities and more wealth created for all Canadians, and secondly, where the other

00:09:47.880 provinces have the ability to develop their resource bases and their revenue bases stronger,

00:09:53.720 which would be good for all Canadian families and even for public services because it would

00:09:59.280 create a greater tax base.

00:10:00.840 Equalization has created a dissent to create wealth, to create revenue, to make Canadian

00:10:07.460 provinces strong, with one we always hear about is New Brunswick and Nova Scotia and Quebec

00:10:11.700 not developing their shale gas resources, so they won't affect their equalization.

00:10:16.980 You know, no doubt there's other examples of where their economies are being held back to

00:10:22.800 continue the money flow from Ottawa.

00:10:24.540 So, you know, Canada has the people, you know, Canada has the commodities, you know, we should

00:10:33.300 be the freest, most prosperous place in the world, and of course what we're seeing under our current

00:10:38.600 federal leadership and current equalization formulas, we're seeing us slip, you know, into

00:10:44.320 the second tier.

00:10:46.740 It's embarrassing and it's just a matter of the right policy to change.

00:10:50.440 Yeah, you're very right, and I think this is the one takeaway that people, even outside

00:10:55.120 of Alberta and outside of the Havre provinces, need to realize here, which you've touched

00:10:59.120 on.

00:10:59.540 This is not just a rainy day fund to help provinces going through tough times.

00:11:03.360 This is a program that by design breeds dependency, and it takes away any incentive for a Quebec 0.90

00:11:10.260 to develop its energy sector because they can replace that revenue more consistently and

00:11:15.140 stably by profiting off of Alberta's energy sector, particularly ironic given that Quebec

00:11:20.280 does not want pipelines in Alberta oil, but they want the checks that come from Alberta

00:11:24.680 being able to sell its resources.

00:11:27.160 Exactly.

00:11:27.700 At the same time, the demand for oil and gas in the world was increasing, particularly

00:11:31.920 before COVID.

00:11:33.640 We're producing less, and Canada is not energy self-sufficient.

00:11:37.160 My goodness, if line five closes, can you imagine the effects of that on Quebec and Ontario?

00:11:41.960 It will be devastating.

00:11:44.140 There's just so many things that have made it happen that have held us back to where,

00:11:50.660 you know, like, as an example, Andrew, from 2004 to 2014, when Alberta was really, really

00:11:56.440 rolling, Ottawa didn't have to put anything into Alberta.

00:11:59.720 We were paying lots of extra pension, lots of extra taxes.

00:12:02.640 We were creating jobs for all Canadians, and Ottawa had to pay less unemployment and less

00:12:08.460 transfers in here because we were strong.

00:12:11.220 The equalization program is based on provinces with different fiscal capacity, being able

00:12:16.900 to have the same approximate taxation levels so they can have the same quality of services.

00:12:22.380 But, Andrew, what's been happening is now all the fiscal capacity of all the provinces is

00:12:26.360 narrowing as Alberta falls, as Alberta becomes less and less able to create wealth and create

00:12:31.960 jobs for all of Canada.

00:12:33.460 We've created a situation that's hurting 37 million Canadians, never mind the 4.4 million

00:12:39.020 Albertans.

00:12:39.840 So let's all vote yes to end it, and let's decide the strengths of this confederation, and

00:12:45.620 let's work hard for more economic freedom.

00:12:48.580 The equalization referendum in Alberta coming up on October 18th.

00:12:52.560 And just to be extra clear and crystal clear here, Drew, the good vote is the yes vote.

00:12:58.180 The good vote is the yes vote.

00:13:00.320 Vote yes to end equalization. 0.90

00:13:02.260 Take it out of 36, subsection 2 of the Constitution.

00:13:05.340 Thank you, Andrew.

00:13:06.060 Yeah, so if someone tells me after I voted no to equalization, I'd be like, okay, no,

00:13:09.660 no, no, no, you mean yes, right?

00:13:11.120 So always have to be concerned when you're in the negative and the affirmative on these

00:13:15.080 things.

00:13:15.380 Cypress Medicine Hat, MLA, Drew Barnes.

00:13:17.500 Always a pleasure, Drew.

00:13:18.480 Thanks for coming on.

00:13:19.920 Thank you very much.

00:13:20.620 Have a good day.

00:13:21.020 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:13:23.940 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - October 08, 2021

MLA urges Albertans to vote ‘yes’ to end equalization

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