Juno News - Most finance ministers fail taxpayer report card

00:00:00.000 so since we're gonna end with hockey canada maybe we should start off talking about some better

00:00:05.000 well not so much better hockey news but the oilers are still alive even though better i don't know

00:00:09.840 you guys got blown out 6-1 last game so the game card says hey that's not yeah well i heard some

00:00:16.180 people talking about like oh talking about winning game one or game two and i'm like hey it only

00:00:19.220 matters who wins the last game so uh we still got games to go listen i saw the maple leaves get

00:00:25.780 blown out 6-1 earlier in this playoffs and you saw what happened to them it's some uh strange

00:00:30.240 premonitions there and look he's never comparing the oilers to the maple leafs again the first round

00:00:35.440 exit specialists we're back to back in the stanley cup finals there's no comparison ah well you know

00:00:41.460 uh we'll get there eventually yeah places first place losers they say that's true i remember

00:00:49.400 tiger woods he's talking about like yeah second place sucks or third place sucks worse though so 0.51

00:00:53.860 you know you can always do worse yeah you can also have the perspective that second place is the

00:00:59.900 first to lose but you know the nba playoffs have been going on too no have you been watching them a lot

00:01:04.360 yeah i know we got pacers thunder uh two small market teams so it's not exactly a breaking record

00:01:10.560 ratings records but uh i'm i'm quite enjoying it we got like a really solid underdog story so uh you know

00:01:18.180 let's go for talus how uh tyree's haliburn they're they're uh nba twitter is uh calling him

00:01:24.120 uh a terrorist they're calling him the haliband so uh yeah it's been a pretty fun playoffs 1.00

00:01:31.040 yeah it's hard enough for a canadian team to win in the nhl and there's so many of them whereas

00:01:36.220 in the nba of course there's only one canadian team so who knows when the raptors will win again

00:01:41.480 but still a lot of canadian players in the in the finals we got benedict matherin lou dort they're both

00:01:46.260 from quebec uh andrew nemhart i saw him play when i was 10 he was like 12. so uh yeah some uh some

00:01:52.080 great canadian talent there i think montreal could ever get a team uh i don't think basketball is uh

00:02:00.820 very popular in quebec but uh you know vancouver they had a team and it didn't really work out well

00:02:05.820 so i don't know maybe maybe calgary is a market that could sustain basketball who knows

00:02:10.120 they've been going for montreal to get their baseball team back for decades but yeah that's probably not

00:02:14.980 going to happen nope not happening anyways olympic stadium first we've talked enough about sports

00:02:22.760 let's let's hop into this thing

00:02:24.240 yeah so starting off guys i wanted to kind of cover uh canadian tax care federation's uh annual

00:02:34.860 report card on all the provincial finance ministers so depending on what province we're in we might be

00:02:40.640 surprised at the rating that our province got or surprised at the rating that some other provinces

00:02:45.460 got you can see the overall list right here and among every provincial finance minister not a single

00:02:51.920 one got an a a plus or a minus so i think that's the big takeaway that kind of i mean the best marks

00:02:59.340 at b plus which isn't terrible don't get me wrong but the majority of finance ministers got a failing

00:03:04.480 grade depending on i'm not just talking about f but i consider a d minus and a d

00:03:08.500 fail if you go if you go in school and you get a d i'm pretty sure that's a fail like f is just worse

00:03:13.620 but you still fail you need like a c plus to pass from my understanding so based on that more finance

00:03:18.620 ministers failed than passed which is it's just ridiculous uh and obviously you guys are in different

00:03:24.760 provinces too so what were your your key takeaways because uh alberta second place hey not the worst

00:03:29.840 we did some good things but also some bad things what did you guys take away

00:03:34.060 well i'm an ontarian so uh when uh this article went up i immediately scrolled down to where it says

00:03:41.340 ontario finance minister peter bethlenfalvy and uh to with no surprise whatsoever you got a d minus

00:03:48.000 so uh you guys are eating a lot better in alberta when it comes from a taxpayer's perspective but uh

00:03:53.960 yeah i mean the d minus for bethlenfalvy is definitely deserved uh a couple weeks ago the ontario

00:04:02.240 finance minister tabled a budget showing that there's a 14 they're projecting a 14.7 billion

00:04:08.720 dollar deficit this is not the federal government that has a tax base of 40 plus million people this

00:04:15.560 is a province that has a 14.7 billion dollar deficit i get it's the biggest province in the

00:04:21.360 country and that you know uh there there's a lot of people that you have to accommodate for but

00:04:27.040 you know this is a incredibly large uh deficit they are ballooning the debt to the point where

00:04:32.660 uh it is projected that in two years ontario's uh total debt will reach 500 billion dollars for a

00:04:40.600 province that is an insane amount of debt to have and uh per person debt is set to reach 28 470

00:04:49.600 by the year's end the highest in the nation so ontario's finances under a supposedly conservative

00:04:56.800 government is getting worse and worse by the year and this is because uh premier ford he campaigned on

00:05:02.980 a bunch of spending commitments uh during the election before the election he sent every ontarian

00:05:08.340 a 200 checks just so you uh know uh what style of governance he's going to pursue and then

00:05:13.820 on the campaign trail he uh promised tens of billions of dollars in expensive uh spending

00:05:19.380 packages to combat the tariffs but uh you know for all the spending that the ford government has

00:05:25.640 been doing uh not just in this past fiscal year but in the past seven and a half years uh ontario's

00:05:31.220 unemployment rate is one of the worst in the country it's uh over eight percent and it's rising

00:05:35.580 every month uh canadians are still dealing with the cost of living uh crunch uh that inflation

00:05:41.640 has caused over the past few years uh ontario has some of the worst housing markets in the country

00:05:47.220 specifically in the greater toronto area where the average price of a home is over a million dollars

00:05:52.480 so the premier uh premier ford's government hasn't really been doing anything to accommodate that and

00:05:58.060 then you table uh a budget that has no tax release whatsoever but instead is ballooning debt

00:06:03.560 i think it's incredibly uh disappointing that d minus is uh well warranted yeah i was actually kind

00:06:10.420 of surprised that he didn't get an f just from what i've seen as an outsider looking into ontario of

00:06:14.920 course he did get an f in debt and spending increase and and just a quick word on spending

00:06:19.300 increase the spending increased in every single province across the nation compared to last year

00:06:25.800 so i i i i really found that shocking that not a single province is saving money essentially and

00:06:33.220 i don't know though at the same time this might just be provinces feel so pressured to deal with

00:06:38.740 all the problems caused by the federal government's immigration that they they need to spend money

00:06:44.480 essentially to to help their provincial residents what did what did you take away from this alex

00:06:50.560 anything well yeah i mean i'm here in bc we've never really been known for financial management

00:06:56.900 oh yeah yeah it's not really a thing it's not really a big part of our reputation i think we

00:07:03.500 just had four credit downgrades in the last four years in bc so say that it's pretty fairly reflective

00:07:09.500 of the actual financial situation here for yeah four consecutive credit downgrades but hey we'll just

00:07:17.240 keep spending more the david eby government specialty right it got them re-elected so what can you say

00:07:23.220 but if you just look at the popularity of some of the premiers and look at the finance minister's

00:07:28.720 corresponding grades uh the correlation isn't great for example uh bob canoe he one of the most

00:07:34.380 uh popular premiers in the entire country uh his finance minister received a big fat f uh you had

00:07:41.580 the ford government that was elected just elected for a third term uh their finance minister as we said

00:07:46.640 peter beffinthalvey received a d minus uh it looks like uh the cackers uh might be uh thrown out 0.96

00:07:53.000 by uh quebecers in the next election but even france all ago was elected for a second term and his uh

00:07:59.020 finance minister uh is receiving a d minus on this uh report so uh i think a lot of canadians have

00:08:05.340 shifted their attention away from the provincial electoral scene and toward the federal electoral

00:08:10.500 scene hence why they're not holding uh their provincial governments to account in the same way that

00:08:15.980 perhaps they would during normal times and that makes sense you know with all the chaos in the last few

00:08:20.720 months of trudeau's tenure and then trudeau resigning we having a new prime minister and then an election

00:08:26.180 a lot of canadians just focus on the federal scene i think this is the same thing with us but

00:08:30.200 now that we have the time to sort of settle down uh we have some certainty and some stability on the

00:08:35.940 federal electoral scene canadians are going to be turning their attention uh toward their provincial

00:08:40.740 politics and the provincial finances uh and they're going to recognize that uh it's not in a great

00:08:46.380 state and it's the case for most provinces in this country yeah interesting you say that no i never

00:08:52.520 noticed that the worst performing provincial finance minister on this report card from manitoba

00:08:58.460 and wab canoe over the last few years every single poll i've ever seen on provincial premiers and their

00:09:04.240 favorability he is the number one rated premier in fact a poll came out uh on thursday uh from angus

00:09:11.700 reed showing the new the newest favorability of the premiers and again canoe was in first place and

00:09:18.020 his rating had gone up not down the only other premier who had a rating increase was danielle smith

00:09:23.560 uh all the other ones either were neutral so they didn't change or they went down but that's a story

00:09:29.960 for another day so but but not to cut you off like i saw a recent poll that showed that premier ford's

00:09:36.980 popularity is on the increase like i think a recent provincial poll had the ontario pcs at 49 percent

00:09:43.260 the liberals at 28 and like the ndp at like 14 15 percent 49 percent like ford like i've never seen

00:09:50.080 that for the ontario pcs in polling you know this could be an outlier poll but the fact that you know

00:09:56.720 they're getting anywhere close to 49 percent in a hopefully uh legitimate public opinion poll is is

00:10:03.580 actually ridiculous to me it's actually like i'm personally offended by that because you know i've

00:10:08.820 i've been paying attention to what ford has been doing and uh he's not been doing a very great job

00:10:14.120 so um let's hope canadians are able to open their eyes especially to uh the fiscal mismanagement that

00:10:20.540 has been going on at queen's park yeah speaking of potentially not doing a great job although i don't

00:10:27.960 know if i'd go that far uh the chief justice had some uh very strong words perhaps for someone

00:10:35.620 in his position and maybe even could be seen as as partisan type language i mean this is very very

00:10:42.420 strong language yeah noah what did what did you think of what the canada's chief justice had to say

00:10:47.240 about trump although i don't think his comments were directly targeted at trump but through implication or

00:10:53.540 uh inference it was it was clear enough who he was talking about yeah so uh richard wagner uh every

00:10:59.500 now and then he decides to go to the media and uh do an interview uh if you recall around the time

00:11:05.240 or just after uh the freedom convoy had uh come to ottawa and been uh you know moved out by the trudeau

00:11:12.040 government uh richard wagner gave a interview and he said oh you know those truckers you know they were

00:11:17.860 uh disruptive and you know he had he had only negative things to to say about the truckers and i think last

00:11:23.120 year he also gave an interview uh that you know made some waves and uh the ways that you wouldn't

00:11:28.140 want them to make from the chief justice uh so again you know he sits down for another interview

00:11:33.280 and he's asked about the situation in the united states uh and he implies that uh the united states

00:11:39.920 is headed toward a dictatorship that the rule of law and judicial independence is under attack now you

00:11:46.300 know like you could have your criticisms of the trump administration you could criticize uh how they

00:11:51.600 responded to certain uh judicial rulings but to say that trump is a dictator after he was just

00:11:56.820 democratically elected uh and to say that you know he's trying to uh make become a dictator you know

00:12:03.260 after you know his government generally does comply with uh judicial orders uh probably not in the most

00:12:09.020 judicious and expeditious way as many people would like him to comply with these orders but you know

00:12:15.180 he still does it uh and to say that you know they're going towards a autocratic autocracy uh i think is

00:12:21.880 uh quite ridiculous uh isaac i know that you've uh held back uh your adjectives and describing richard

00:12:29.180 but i will not i will not hold back i don't think he's doing quite a good job uh especially because uh

00:12:35.340 later on uh in the review uh he was asked about um upholding uh the supreme court traditions uh and he said

00:12:43.040 that you know to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the supreme court they're gonna go away from the

00:12:48.380 red and iconic red and white robes uh that the supreme court has sort of just uh stripping away

00:12:53.480 uh a sort of very long tradition long-held tradition to uh i guess create robes that are more fitting of

00:13:00.900 canada's uh you know tradition traditions which you know is kind of like a bit of a conflict there if

00:13:07.760 you're you know trying to think about that a bit uh you know with some sense but also he uh he at the

00:13:14.000 supreme court they put up a big statue of richard wagner in the lobby of the supreme court which is

00:13:19.720 not something you generally do while you're still serving on the court you usually get your statue

00:13:24.240 commissioned after you leave uh and he said you know like uh the reporter asked well who uh who purchased

00:13:30.720 the statue uh for like who's the one that paid for it and you know wagner said oh i don't know

00:13:36.260 uh i don't know who uh commissioned statue but you know it's there uh and i'd like to see my face

00:13:42.060 every time i walk in the door so uh definitely not you know a flat very interview that flattered

00:13:47.560 himself with uh conservatives or canadians in general uh what did you guys think of uh richard

00:13:52.940 wagner's a strange eccentric uh interviews especially his comments on autocracy in the united states

00:13:59.140 just quickly on the statue that's i think ironic because if historically that's what dictated

00:14:06.240 creators do statues of themselves everywhere i i mean good to see the irony here but alex yeah

00:14:15.840 you're you're a crime reporter so what did you think of that and and more more importantly perhaps

00:14:20.580 just the importance of uh of a supreme court justice and any judge for that matter just remaining

00:14:27.520 non-partisan and kind of not sticking their nose where where it doesn't belong well it's obviously a

00:14:32.840 politicized comment right i mean if when justin trudeau was doing the same thing in ottawa you

00:14:38.880 know and stomping peaceful protesters with horses he really didn't seem to take exception to it so

00:14:44.160 you know it's a shame to see a judge be so politicized that he doesn't he isn't able to see things

00:14:50.300 consistently and and with principles right that's actually kind of a i think a reasonable expectation

00:14:56.440 of the public from their judges right is that they see things with some level of neutrality

00:15:00.720 absolutely and you know one of the most celebrated lauded things about our supreme court is the

00:15:08.240 supported supposed uh non-partisan nature of our supreme court uh you know i took a couple law classes

00:15:16.760 in university and uh one of the big things about professors you know laws is you know how fair and

00:15:22.440 reasonable and unlike the american the bad american supreme court that our court is like you know and

00:15:28.820 then you read these decisions like the insight case or uh you know the judges are saying oh well you

00:15:34.800 actually have to grant uh the safe injection site uh mr harper mr harper uh and you have these cases

00:15:40.240 where they're striking down mandatory minimum uh laws you know very reasonable moderate mandatory minimum

00:15:46.840 laws uh that the the court is striking down under the under section eight the prohibition against a

00:15:53.540 cruel and unusual punishment uh there's just there's so many decisions that are expressly political

00:16:00.460 uh that you know i i can't i don't even have time to recite but uh to imagine that the court is

00:16:07.000 non-partisan uh it is it is a fantasy and richard wagner himself is doing a great job in you know

00:16:14.920 dispelling that illusion of tearing down the bricks of uh you know this uh conventional wisdom that has

00:16:22.460 been developed by our laurentian elites that our supreme court is infallible and non-partisan and

00:16:28.160 you know are just sort of like philosopher kings well guess what these are humans who actually have

00:16:33.140 their own political beliefs and their beliefs are just as objectionable as everyone else's and we have

00:16:39.660 the right to criticize them and they should be criticized because wagner definitely has been acting

00:16:44.480 in political uh in ways that have been politicized and uh you know it's incumbent on our judges

00:16:50.740 especially the chief justice representing the court to not engage in such tomfoolery

00:16:55.080 well it's also a bit of a play to pay to play system too right i think i read somewhere that more

00:17:02.440 than 50 percent of the judges in canada aren't only liberal voters they're liberal donors right because we

00:17:08.100 we have our political parties appoint judges in canada right so

00:17:14.360 yeah and and and on the same beat i mean alberta for example is one of the only provinces who has its own

00:17:22.200 senate election but of course the senators we elected were not selected to the senate trudeau

00:17:27.360 picked his own ideologues to to stack the senate with but that's a different story and before we get to

00:17:33.260 they can't do anything yeah or don't move on to a different part of politics which

00:17:38.820 for me this was an absolutely shocking poll which suggested quite heavily that canada is moving

00:17:45.740 towards a two-party system because the ndp is uh just they're done they're done based on this poll uh

00:17:51.900 so basically this angus reed institute poll showed that only 13 percent of respondents would definitely

00:17:58.300 consider supporting ndp in the future whereas 41 percent said there was absolutely no way they

00:18:04.480 would ever support the ndp in the future and there's a lot to break down in this poll but a few

00:18:09.760 interesting things uh younger canadians were much more optimistic about the ndp whereas uh canadians

00:18:16.820 above the age of 35 were essentially much more pessimistic and thought the the party's best days

00:18:22.000 were behind them uh and then we also saw something for past ndp voters and which parties they went

00:18:29.360 to for example less than one percent of those who voted conservative would vote ndp in the future

00:18:34.880 perhaps not surprising but that number rises to 18 percent among liberals because the liberal party

00:18:40.480 absorbed so many ndp voters but as for the voters that they absorbed i mean so many of them are saying

00:18:48.480 they're not going back for example um uh yeah so 51 percent this is this is 51 percent of past ndp voters

00:18:59.780 who voted liberal did so just for so that the conservatives would lose so that that's not

00:19:05.580 great and uh and honestly arguably the main reason the conservatives lost the federal election was that

00:19:10.860 that so many ndp voters left that party to vote liberals if they had stuck with the ndp the conservatives

00:19:15.620 likely would have won the election because there would have been a bigger vote split but also

00:19:21.360 generally just uh 47 percent of past ndp voters believed that the party's future is bright whereas

00:19:28.220 28 in total say that the best days are behind it and then there was a bunch of stuff on singh and his

00:19:33.860 performance which was split but yeah what do you guys think about the ndp's future i mean how long will

00:19:40.740 it take for the party to recover federally yeah i think that the ndp they're definitely in a dire

00:19:48.760 position now this is perhaps the ndp being artificially underestimated because they had a

00:19:56.520 an incredibly unpopular leader and currently an interim leader uh so perhaps if they have someone

00:20:02.520 who's just you know so much more competent than seeing you know a jack layton-esque leader that you

00:20:08.740 know they can revive the party's chances and you know like at the end of the day the ndp does have

00:20:13.480 a decent amount of name recognition amongst the canadian public and you know with some competent

00:20:18.600 leadership with some incompetence from the liberals uh you know they could definitely uh bring their

00:20:24.200 support up especially if you look at say uh provinces like uh manitoba where the ndp is actually

00:20:30.100 quite popular on a provincial level uh in british columbia uh it's the same thing in alberta you know

00:20:36.600 the ndp they're still the clear number two party to the ucp but they still poll in the 30s and 40s

00:20:43.900 provincially it's not like you know this is a rump party uh you know in a in a one-party province or

00:20:50.160 whatever but and you look in saskatchewan the ndp made great gains in the last provincial election

00:20:55.960 uh last year so the ndp there's still a relevant force at least on the provincial level it's just that

00:21:02.120 the federal party is has been ran so incompetently in the past few years that people have a very

00:21:10.020 negative uh view of the ndp the federal ndp they associate with singh and all of his uh just

00:21:16.980 incompetence and it's like faux radicalism but also like you know his his champagne socialism you know

00:21:24.460 it's like this is the the image that the ndp is associated with and you sort of had charlie angus

00:21:30.740 complaining about that in the media uh earlier this week uh but yeah yeah i think uh at the end

00:21:36.440 of the day it's going to be very very hard uh for the ndp especially since they are not an official

00:21:41.480 they don't have official party status so they do not get money from uh the parliament uh for each uh

00:21:48.500 vote that they received that they got in the election uh they don't have that privilege so

00:21:52.240 they're going to have to work really hard to rebuild the already battered uh party finances but

00:21:58.320 uh i'm curious about you alex because you're in british columbia do you feel like uh the as like

00:22:04.080 since the british columbia is uh the british columbia ndp is a powerful political party do you feel like

00:22:10.040 that will correspond to perhaps the federal ndp becoming a relevant force in british columbia again

00:22:15.800 yeah i mean i think the ndp still has a lot of good faith support here in bc you know i'm speaking on

00:22:22.720 behalf of true north's left hard correspondent to your bc if i allowed to say that we might have to

00:22:31.900 cut that out um yeah i mean people people here still kind of like the ndp and i i don't take these

00:22:38.460 polls too seriously especially in between elections because i find party loyalty in canada is pretty

00:22:44.340 dynamic it's not like in the united states right where you have generational republicans and democrats

00:22:49.980 people here have very little loyalty to whoever they're voting for and yeah typically they'll

00:22:56.100 they'll vote for whoever they think has the most compelling party leader whoever that happens to be

00:23:02.200 i also think with trudeau moving so far to the left it kind of rendered the ndp meaningless as a

00:23:07.500 political party but now as we're seeing carney move the liberals back to the center a little bit

00:23:12.900 i mean it's probably too early to tell but it appears that way then it starts to make the ndp

00:23:18.920 look more appealing to people on the left i would say so i expect those numbers to change

00:23:24.480 but you know just to like you know piggyback off that even like despite mark carney's pivot to the

00:23:30.720 center relative to justin trudeau who is like you know so far left that it's hard to you know

00:23:35.020 even conceptualize the current political you know uh dynamic right now uh but you know carney bringing

00:23:41.720 the liberals back to the center uh did not really boost the ndp in any sort of way actually

00:23:46.980 they plummeted to like six percent in the last election despite sort of optimal ideological

00:23:51.740 uh circumstances so you know something i've been pondering uh recently in the past few years is

00:23:58.220 is canada just moving to a two-party system or at least a system in which having a third party that

00:24:04.820 could win elections is just unsustainable now the ndp has never really been that it's really been the

00:24:10.520 liberals and conservatives but they've managed to you know gain official uh opposition status in 2011

00:24:16.260 they've had a sizable parliamentary caucuses uh but if you look in say alberta the alberta liberal

00:24:23.440 party died so now it's a two-party uh state there uh with a conservative ndp and bc you know it's the

00:24:30.940 liberals and the conservatives and the ndp they couldn't sustain themselves the liberals had to die

00:24:35.760 the conservatives had to rise up and that's a two-party province it's the same thing in manitoba

00:24:40.780 it's the same thing in saskatchewan ontario is a bit different but if you look at a lot of the

00:24:46.140 atlantic provinces there are two-party races uh so you're kind of seeing this sort of realignment on

00:24:52.100 the provincial side of politics sort of happen uh in federal politics and you know if this is a long-term

00:24:57.960 trend in which just having a third party uh you know to the liberals or conservatives is

00:25:03.720 unsustainable that causes that you know that means there's some real real political trouble

00:25:08.660 uh for the federal ndp if they're probably just not relevant anymore yeah i think that one of the

00:25:14.160 most brilliant things that the carney campaign did in the last election was not show their cards

00:25:19.420 right like this this kind of right word lurched back to the center of the liberal party we're really

00:25:25.700 seeing it post-election we didn't see it so much during the campaign a lot of major social issues we

00:25:31.140 had no idea what mark carney's opinions were on them during the election in fact we still don't

00:25:35.860 um you know safe supply comes to mind um transgender issues it's pride month he's barely mentioned it at

00:25:44.180 all which is actually kind of a refreshing change from the rainbow hysteria that we went through with 1.00

00:25:49.120 justin trudeau for the better part of the last decade so yeah i mean in a country where most people

00:25:54.280 are generally very politically apathetic there are a few things quite as attractive as a politician

00:25:59.440 people know nothing about right and that's really kind of what i think was the linchpin of mark carney's

00:26:05.440 campaign and why he was so successful but now as he's moving further to the center i think that it

00:26:11.120 starts to make the ndp look attractive again to people who are more have lefting leftist sensibilities

00:26:17.160 let's say it's it's a decent theory and i think we'll have to wait and see but moving on to our next

00:26:23.640 story here alex for any listeners who might be familiar with to catch a predator uh the ontario

00:26:30.680 police force if i'm correct was doing a a similar thing or a similar method to catch uh what was it

00:26:38.340 child predators or what what's the situation here alex yeah so as i understand it from the police

00:26:43.620 statements they did um what they call a child luring uh probe or mega sting and so they posed as

00:26:50.420 children online very similar to the old chris hansen show to catch a predator that was formerly

00:26:56.040 you know on dateline nbc i think they went on to internet chat rooms and they tried to lure adult

00:27:02.380 well it was all men of course um to come meet kids and then they would arrest them it's really what i

00:27:08.760 find fascinating about this story is that they were able to arrest and charge 36 people in only two

00:27:14.940 weeks so this actually brings rise to a few questions for me number one why didn't they do

00:27:20.980 this earlier uh the whole creep catchers phenomenon again it's better part of a decade that's been going

00:27:26.820 on and actually police organizations were criticizing these online vigilante groups that were doing

00:27:32.420 exactly what the police ended up doing and were incredibly successful at in a very short amount of

00:27:37.400 time so that's really my main question why didn't they do this earlier why aren't they doing it more

00:27:42.460 often but kudos to them for doing it at all yeah that's my question too alex i think well myself

00:27:48.200 and probably other people who watched to catch a predator just assumed by watching that that like

00:27:53.140 the big police organizations like fbi level would be doing things like this like oh that's just what

00:27:59.460 they do of course that's what they do and you assumed like that this was already happening so i'm

00:28:04.060 just so surprised that you're saying that this is like a new thing and it hasn't been ongoing the

00:28:08.220 last like few decades because i just had i was under the assumption that that it would have been

00:28:11.820 well i assume that they do a little bit of it but i mean this big on this level of scale is quite

00:28:17.680 impressive and apparently required cooperation between over 20 different policing organizations

00:28:22.460 so i think that's one of the issues too right is jurisdictionally it might be hard to to work

00:28:27.440 together but again i'm just happy that they're doing it sorry go ahead no no but it's like you know

00:28:33.000 these police agencies they're not really doing their job when it comes to you know dealing with

00:28:38.360 potential pedophiles and so you have this sort of gap in the law enforcement market almost so you

00:28:45.640 have these you know ordinary citizens going up and you know you know creating a youtube channel where

00:28:51.360 the whole premise is that they create these videos where they catch these uh quote-unquote predators

00:28:56.160 you know they you see if you can find this content you know quite often on youtube uh not and chris

00:29:03.200 hansen is actually doing it on youtube too uh but you have like a bunch of other spin-off uh youtube

00:29:07.880 channels where you have people who you know conduct very similar uh sting operations so you know there's

00:29:13.780 a clear like gap in the market uh you know law enforcement market for you know getting rid of these uh

00:29:19.800 predators off from our streets you know and you know i have a younger sister who's like 10 years

00:29:24.780 younger than i i want to make sure that you know when she walks to school or you know she goes to

00:29:30.560 play at the park that you know she's safe and she doesn't have to we don't have to worry about you

00:29:34.920 know potential predators uh roaming around so if the police did a better job and you know conducted

00:29:40.960 these operations more often i think you know a lot of parents uh would feel uh better about you know

00:29:47.840 sending their kids off to do x y and z sort of like how uh parents used to do it in the 80s and 90s and

00:29:53.680 stuff like that well i think one of the more disturbing things about this case too is that

00:29:58.240 it's not when they're walking to school that's the most dangerous place now it's in the home

00:30:02.780 right because these predators were all online right so the predator is now in your home essentially and so

00:30:08.680 i think that that's a sobering reminder to parents that you know you shouldn't just trust your kids to

00:30:15.260 to parent themselves on the internet and because the predators are prolific and there's a lot of them

00:30:22.600 yeah and just to add one more point like uh it's it's really important that it's law enforcement

00:30:27.840 you know conducting these thing operations not necessarily like youtubers because like

00:30:31.800 at the end of the day like youtubers they might be doing it for the right reasons but you know

00:30:36.900 they're probably doing it for the fame attention and the money uh you know and so they get into it

00:30:41.380 for the wrong reasons and you know you see some of these videos where they're just like beating up

00:30:44.980 people uh perhaps or like they're catching a predator but the actual predator they're catching is

00:30:49.860 someone's like severely autistic or like has like down syndrome and like that you know like and then

00:30:55.120 they're just like assaulting a person who's like autistic and it's like just it just feels like really

00:31:00.760 weird like it's best that we actually like leave this to actual law enforcement authorities who can

00:31:05.840 conduct these operations properly instead of you know chasing money and clout but of course the

00:31:10.860 effectiveness of these programs lives and dies in the courts right so i think one of the things people

00:31:16.600 are really upset about is that when they did the release 34 out of the 36 had already been released

00:31:22.440 from custody by the time that they had announced this to the public now it's 33 one of them has

00:31:28.360 been remanded after two new charges which i just brought about yesterday so um yeah yeah i'm sure

00:31:34.280 they'll all they'll all be recharged because they'll just commit crimes again as we've seen with this

00:31:38.380 catch and release policy i mean it's just like it's the same people committing the crimes over and over

00:31:42.460 again and they just keep getting let out so really at this point it's like the rcmp for example like

00:31:48.060 i was talking about if they did this cross-jurisdictionally and they're doing all this stuff

00:31:51.440 just for these people to be released it's like what's the point that that's what i keep seeing

00:31:55.220 these police organizations say what do you want us to do we arrest these people they're out the next

00:31:59.820 day like what do you want us to do we i mean it's they're in a terrible situation it sends a really

00:32:06.540 bad message too right because you know there there is such a thing as sex tourists right so if canada 0.91

00:32:12.160 has a lax criminal justice system especially when it comes to pedophiles then we become a safe zone

00:32:17.020 for sex tourists right and that's obviously not what we want if we want to keep our kids safe so

00:32:21.760 i implore everybody to put pressure on their local judges and to keep track of what they're doing and

00:32:27.440 i think that's the best way that we can change the system wow we're really kicking off the weekend on

00:32:33.920 a dark note eh well yeah and i mean it's all problems you have to understand them right so

00:32:40.100 sticking with the sex theme sort of uh alex you for those who don't know alex has been uh

00:32:48.260 sort of participating in the hockey canada trial so he knows what's going on uh and we're reaching the

00:32:54.420 the end stages of this because if i'm correct the defense recently presented all their arguments

00:32:59.220 and now the crown is going to be presenting their arguments so yeah what what have you taken away

00:33:03.960 from this trial so far alex so many things it's a it's a really it's a bizarre trial um for so many

00:33:13.540 reasons i think one of the most stomach churning things about this trial is putting it into the

00:33:21.060 context of what we were just talking about the fact that we have this revolving door justice system

00:33:25.460 for predators and monsters and here we are i assume that this case cost the ontario prosecution

00:33:30.980 services well over a million dollars to investigate and then put on trial a 19 year old getting a

00:33:39.240 well i guess he would be 26 now but we're putting him on trial for a quote unquote blowy in a hotel room

00:33:46.420 seven years ago i don't know i don't know if this ever should have gone to trial

00:33:51.680 at the same time i also understand the spirit of believing victims of course and so i will stop

00:33:59.260 short of saying that it shouldn't have gone to trial i just question maybe the priorities of the

00:34:04.560 prosecutors given how many other people are seeing their charges dropped due to what the ontario

00:34:10.400 prosecution services says is a lack of resources yeah no i understand the contrast in what you're saying

00:34:16.380 where and these players are are getting put through this public trial this huge trial whereas

00:34:23.000 as we just talked about child predators are are literally let out of bail then on bail the next day

00:34:29.320 i mean this is crazy yeah no i have you paid attention to the to the hockey canada trial at all

00:34:33.880 i've been paying attention to it in passing but what really you know stands out to me is that you know

00:34:40.660 uh every time i walk by my grandma uh who's watching six o'clock news you know you get another

00:34:46.240 update of the hockey canada trial and it feels like i've been hearing about this for years because i

00:34:50.640 have been hearing about it for years it's been it's been so long yeah as you said this is an incident

00:34:55.020 that happened seven years ago and you know it's really frustrating for the victims and the accused

00:35:02.400 to not receive a verdict on this i know uh there were some complications and the trial that just

00:35:08.020 couldn't be helped but you know when you're waiting you know years upon years uh for a verdict

00:35:13.200 it takes a toll on you especially if you're you know the potential victim and you have to go up on

00:35:18.320 the stand multiple times and you have to you know have this in the news cycle all over and over again

00:35:23.600 and if you're uh you know the the hockey players and even and especially if you know you're innocent

00:35:29.540 and you have to be dragged through the mud uh for years upon years and have your name in newspaper

00:35:35.820 headlines and stuff like that it's it's really it must be really tough especially uh on them and

00:35:40.940 their families i wouldn't really wish it on anyone uh so it you know i think for the benefit of everyone

00:35:47.520 uh it's best we get this over with uh as quickly as possible i know there'll be another month until

00:35:53.740 uh we hear a verdict so uh let's hope that's a quick and speedy month and you know let's let's get

00:36:00.300 this over with i think it's best for uh the nation that we don't dwell on this for another year

00:36:05.120 yeah i know it's interesting you say that just quickly uh because even if everyone in this trial

00:36:10.880 is innocent and that's the case i mean the emotional toll that they would have had to gone

00:36:14.820 through over these seven years they they are paying a a severe price for that in itself like

00:36:19.380 charges aside that that enough in itself but i mean that's the saying the wheels of justice turn

00:36:25.060 slowly right anyways alex yeah uh the the if i can just add one thing about that the headline for

00:36:31.100 that story because that was the a quotation from daniel brand who's the lawyer for alex formanton who

00:36:36.500 said she just wants money uh my feelings on this trial have evolved over time so just looking at it

00:36:42.140 holistically i don't believe that that's actually the case at all i think it's a rather audacious claim

00:36:47.180 because she already settled a civil suit with hockey canada in 2022 the the defendant or sorry not the

00:36:53.320 defendant the complainant who's identified as em in this case really has nothing to gain

00:36:58.660 from doing this other than feeling understood so so i think that some of the the claims that the

00:37:05.860 defense lawyers have made and some of the arguments that they've made have been i think damaging to

00:37:10.960 i just don't i don't find them convincing i'll just leave it at that at the same time does any of

00:37:17.740 the behavior that is being alleged occurred here is it does it pass a bar of criminality i'm not i

00:37:23.300 find that nebulous as well so this this brings me returns me to my original point why are we even

00:37:29.900 doing this right like i i think at the heart of the matter is that you have two different movements

00:37:35.140 you have this me too movement right which is and i understand the spirit of it like completely and

00:37:40.520 genuinely the idea that you should believe all sexual assault survivors because frankly like people

00:37:45.260 just don't falsely report sexual assault that often i mean even the the statistics that show it

00:37:51.200 happens relatively often i think the highest i've ever seen is two to eight percent of accusations

00:37:56.800 are false that's that's high enough right if it ruins somebody's life i mean you know if one out of

00:38:02.340 50 lives are being ruined i mean that's nothing to sneeze at but i just don't think that it's this

00:38:07.120 really common thing that happens um that people are falsely accusing others to destroy their lives

00:38:13.020 so i get the me too movement of believing all survivors but it runs headlong into the presumption

00:38:19.540 of innocence right these two concepts can't possibly coexist right they're they're mutually untenable

00:38:26.100 and and so i think that in a way this trial maybe is a good thing because it will remove some of the

00:38:31.860 ambiguities that we have regarding that conflict of interest and as well as you know some of the

00:38:36.900 ambiguities surrounding consent generally yeah that's something just quickly to touch on that i've always

00:38:41.920 struggled with was of course we we learned from a child that innocent until proven guilty this is a

00:38:48.300 core value in our society and yet i don't feel that sports in general uh encompasses very well like we see

00:38:56.520 these people get accused of things that in no way are proven yet and they're kicked off the team or

00:39:01.380 whatever they they have to be put through the ringer so like you said these these two things can't be

00:39:06.040 true at once uh just quickly if you want to uh this is up to you because obviously it's just your

00:39:11.700 opinion but obviously we're going to hear the verdict i think in about a month what do you expect

00:39:16.780 uh the judge is going to come back with so i first of all i'm happy that it's going to be jury or sorry

00:39:22.780 trial by judge and the reason that i'm happy for that is that when you get a jury verdict you just get

00:39:28.220 the verdict there's never an explanation that comes along with it and in a trial like this where i think

00:39:32.440 there is a genuine public interest in removing ambiguity around consent i think it will be helpful to

00:39:38.000 have the judge give their reasons for the decision based off of the evidence i've seen and i'm not a

00:39:43.980 legal expert this is actually the first sexual assault trial i've ever covered um so i i would

00:39:49.340 take my opinion with a grain of salt but i could foresee a situation in which so all of the players

00:39:55.880 have been charged with one count of sexual assault and one player michael mcleod who was the player who

00:40:01.800 invited the other men into the hotel room he is charged with an additional count of party to an

00:40:07.020 offense so i could foresee this bizarre outcome happening where he would be guilty of party of an

00:40:14.400 offense but not guilty of sexual assault along with the other five players which then obviously brings

00:40:20.460 rise to the question of well what is the offense yeah now i saw this during the coops trial obviously a

00:40:27.560 very different trial very different circumstances but they were charged with conspiracy to commit

00:40:31.600 murder and possessions of a weapon for a dangerous purpose the jury came back with not guilty on

00:40:37.220 conspiracy to commit murder but guilty on possession of a weapons for a dangerous purpose which brought

00:40:42.400 rise to the question well what is the dangerous purpose right so these things do happen um and i think

00:40:49.080 that there is kind of some pressure on the judge to have impart justice in some capacity so yeah i don't think

00:40:56.980 it's beyond the bounds of believability that everybody will be acquitted on the sexual assault

00:41:01.600 charges and that mcleod will be guilty on the party to an offense and we're all left a little befuddled 0.92

00:41:06.340 yeah do you think this pressures the judge in any way because they might be thinking uh this is going to

00:41:11.940 set some sort of precedent going forward in in cases like this like do you think they feel that feel

00:41:16.280 that pressure because they're really i don't know building the framework for for future trials here

00:41:21.560 i imagine so i i've looked into some of the case history in previous trials by judge uh involving

00:41:28.140 this this judge and she is a very competent judge that's a very kind person from my perception having

00:41:35.280 watched the trial and somebody who really has an understanding and appreciation for the presumption

00:41:40.440 of innocence and not uh rendering a guilty verdict unless she's convinced beyond all reasonable doubt

00:41:47.260 so just so to answer your question does she is there pressure for her to establish some type of

00:41:51.720 precedent i believe that there is and i think that it is and possibly does pass the bar of illegality

00:41:58.680 i think it's certainly immoral to have consensual sex with a girl and then when she goes to the bathroom 1.00

00:42:04.080 invite all of your friends in um i i think that that may actually qualify as an offense it's a pretty

00:42:11.940 unique situation i can't really see too many circumstances in which that would ever happen

00:42:16.800 um but yeah i mean if she feels compelled morally then i could see her wanting to establish a precedent

00:42:23.780 there because i think that that behavior is wrong and and we should call it out as such

00:42:27.960 and my predictions whatever alex's is yeah no i was going to give you the final word that's it eh

00:42:33.840 yeah that's it all right i'd like to thank my colleagues noah jarvis and alex zolton

00:42:38.240 just remember everything you heard today was off the record

00:42:40.420 awesome say that more often that'll make it a lot easier to do off the record just whatever alex

00:42:52.100 says i agree it's a weird case man i don't know i don't know yeah no i'm i'm just i'm just excited

00:42:58.640 i mean for the organization that you got to be on the case i think that's awesome oh thank you i

00:43:02.980 appreciate that i was excited that they let me do it like i wasn't sure they would yeah yeah so

00:43:08.100 especially because you kind of came in halfway through right i did i did i missed you weren't

00:43:12.940 there from the start which i'm really bummed actually that i missed it and i i i don't know

00:43:18.020 if i said it on the show i wish i did if i missed it but she is a very credible witness

00:43:22.660 like she is not self-victimizing she's not sensationalizing and she's actually taking

00:43:28.860 accountability a bunch of times said like oh this is kind of my fault too so i think what we

00:43:33.500 where we're dealing with is that like society itself doesn't know what the lines of consent are

00:43:39.500 do you know what i mean yeah what sort of uh like ruling do you want the judge to come back with on

00:43:46.360 uh the consent uh issue i think that he should be guilty of party to an offense

00:43:52.680 i know that that doesn't make sense yeah but it's like i'm also kind of like a kind of try to make like

00:43:59.820 a people pleaser everybody happy kind of person generally but what sort of jurisprudence do you

00:44:03.640 want the judge to establish regarding like what qualifies as consent so what it is so you could say

00:44:11.280 i think the the the charge party to an offense doesn't capture what he did wrong but she based

00:44:20.420 off of the evidence that i can see certainly did not consent to all of these men coming into the room

00:44:25.300 so it could even be the the offense you could say could be voyeurism right because she was naked 1.00

00:44:30.340 and he invited all these men into the room to basically gawk at her and tell her to masturbate 1.00

00:44:34.820 on the floor and we don't need a voyeurism charge successful against any of the men in order to

00:44:40.720 establish that as a potential offense right right that would be a whole other trial but yeah i think

00:44:47.440 like that was definitely wrong and there's just there's i haven't seen any evidence that convinces me

00:44:53.220 in any way that she agreed to having all those men come in once they came in she says she went into

00:44:58.700 autopilot and you know was goading yeah that's the thing because she definitely uh at least feigned 1.00

00:45:05.560 consent when they were there right but she didn't consent to them coming into the room so there's two

00:45:09.520 things that's that's the weird thing right yeah yeah and like i'm absolutely certain that she did say

00:45:15.240 like are you pussies gonna fuck me and everything but you know what people get drunk and they have 0.98

00:45:19.900 too much fun sometimes and like whatever it is what it is and she takes accountability for that

00:45:25.640 right like she's like she's not the other thing was i was reading one of your articles didn't you

00:45:30.960 say like she was in some way pressured to bring this suit forward by her parents or something like

00:45:35.440 that that's a consideration too yeah so she had a boyfriend at the time so her mother um was the 0.97

00:45:41.220 one who originally went to the police and then her father-in-law was kind of pressuring her and that

00:45:45.520 actually came up as well in cross-examination where they said they characterized her as a people

00:45:51.000 pleaser and they said like are you just doing this to make your family happy and she said yeah that's

00:45:55.400 possible you know so yeah she she often says yeah that's possible which has been really damaging to

00:46:02.420 her case right they've kind of like taken and that's the other thing that's interesting too

00:46:07.020 is that you have five really high paid and like highly competent defense lawyers so it's like a five

00:46:13.100 on one the best of the best yeah yeah it's the best of the best and so that's why i'm quite

00:46:17.740 sympathetic now like my at first i thought that the defendants were all innocent for sure and as the

00:46:22.780 trial has progressed i've felt less and less that that's would you say that's comparable to like the

00:46:27.060 oj trial like they just have stacked lawyers and yeah you know what her is her lawyer comparable to 1.00

00:46:32.080 that or no yeah i would say that that is a good comparison or like the coots one again would be

00:46:36.900 another example where like all of the the crown had all of the good lawyers right and the coots guys 1.00

00:46:42.280 were kind of like out in the lurch this is yeah what about what about her lawyer though is are they

00:46:48.120 any good yeah very good very competent but she's playing it's like playing speed chess against five 0.97

00:46:53.080 people right because all of those defense lawyers are because carlson can be like 500 people at once

00:46:58.020 but yeah yeah but like they all have their own arguments they all have their own theories and so

00:47:02.420 you're playing like five different games at once and that can't possibly be easy it's been a real

00:47:06.540 uphill battle for her as well given that almost all the evidence is witness testimony from a drunk

00:47:11.120 night seven years ago right like how are you going to prove anything beyond all reasonable doubt when

00:47:16.300 that's all the evidence you have yeah that's tough yeah so i think that she's performed like

00:47:21.460 regardless of the outcome i think she performed really admirably and but do i think this should

00:47:26.580 have gone to trial no not really no well uh well you'll you'll be our resource on that you know

00:47:35.940 for the rest of the trial i'm glad yeah it's i also find it interesting how uninteresting it is

00:47:41.160 like everybody thought there was this big raucous gangbang but like a couple of guys got like 30

00:47:46.180 second blowjobs and two guys got like laid in the bathroom and it doesn't sound like any of them

00:47:51.520 well actually came up in court none of them were particularly good performers

00:47:56.220 short and sweet eh that's what you mean it was supposed to be a well dude there's four guys

00:48:03.260 watching there's a bit of pressure too right like it really was just teenagers awkwardly exploring

00:48:08.220 their sexuality like the goalie for instance he was getting a blowjob for like 30 seconds and he's 0.77

00:48:12.840 like i actually made eye contact with one of the guys in the room so i like lost my erection

00:48:16.860 of course right it's like it's not like it's not like pornography like a big raucous gangbang or

00:48:22.960 anything right like this is pretty it was pretty lame like the details i shouldn't use that word i

00:48:28.000 mean there's a better word i could use i'm sure it was pretty vanilla and like awkward and yeah do you

00:48:34.560 think the like on july 27th or whatever when the verdict is like how big do you think that news will

00:48:39.220 be i guess it depends on the i think it'll be a nothing burger because even if like he gets guilty

00:48:45.060 on that one count party to an offense i don't think there is a mandatory minimum sexual assault

00:48:49.960 there is right like i think it was really yeah it's like five years prison time or something

00:48:53.940 um but party to an offense i think that 500 fine like after yeah yeah like a couple like two weeks

00:49:01.100 of community service ridiculous after a bigger news story 500 fine the bigger news story will be if

00:49:06.580 somebody signs one of the players that that's because the canadians care more but like i was just

00:49:11.580 saying about the sports thing you're innocent until proven guilty not only that these people

00:49:15.180 are innocent like proven innocent and then they can't get signed that would be bullshit i would 0.72

00:49:20.560 be if i were in their shoes like i went through seven year goddamn trial prove myself innocent and 0.66

00:49:26.000 you won't sign me crazy they work their whole lives to be in the nhl this is no like small feat

00:49:31.260 yeah for sure that is very true i wonder yeah like because really the government has no place in

00:49:39.700 telling people what two consenting adults can and cannot do but you yeah i don't know at the same time

00:49:46.240 i think inviting five people well it was like 10 people at one point mind you this is also important

00:49:52.640 detail most of them came in because they wanted pizza which if you know like i think we're all young

00:49:58.360 enough to remember like what it was like to be a 19 year old boy pizza is a very compelling reason

00:50:02.560 to do anything it still is as far as yeah man if you got i'm there yeah i just gotta i just gotta

00:50:08.480 double check the rooms i'm going into i guess so this one player that the splits guy i mean as far

00:50:14.640 as i'm aware he just came in for pizza and everyone's like do the splits footer and he did the splits over

00:50:20.260 and he walked out seven years on trial for that seven years like his whole career is over

00:50:25.500 yeah that's so crazy to me

Juno News - June 14, 2025

Most finance ministers fail taxpayer report card

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