Juno News - Moving Goalposts

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.700 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.960 Coming up, the moving goalposts and the permanent lockdown,

00:00:16.500 Justin Trudeau's assault on free speech,

00:00:18.660 and who's standing up for Canadian jobs with Keystone?

00:00:23.360 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:26.920 Welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show, Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show,

00:00:33.560 here on True North.

00:00:34.780 From my house arrest to yours, welcome to the program.

00:00:38.640 It is great to be talking with you from my own little self-imposed quarantine,

00:00:42.960 not a government-approved hotel site by any stretch,

00:00:45.920 at least not for the time being.

00:00:47.620 But who knows, with the way things are going

00:00:49.260 and the way governments are ramping up their efforts,

00:00:51.460 maybe we'll all be put in these quarantine hotels or isolation hotels before long.

00:00:56.100 I want to talk about the moving goalposts,

00:00:59.180 which is a theme we've certainly addressed on the show in the past,

00:01:02.300 but one that is particularly relevant now.

00:01:05.380 We have seen over the last year,

00:01:08.080 it's been almost a year that we've been in the more rigorous lockdowns in Canada,

00:01:12.420 certainly in Ontario and most of the provinces actually.

00:01:15.200 They all kind of went down the road at the same time about last March.

00:01:18.740 So we've seen this for almost a year.

00:01:20.600 And it's been interesting to see how the government has moved the goalposts on us

00:01:25.600 and on itself time and time again.

00:01:27.720 Of course, we famously talked about Patti Hajdu's comment that

00:01:30.640 border closures don't work and travel restrictions don't work.

00:01:33.920 And then a few days later, we have, boom,

00:01:36.340 the border between Canada and the U.S. shut down.

00:01:39.720 And then we go through all of the steps that we're supposed to go through

00:01:42.940 with continuing increasing of the restrictions to mandatory masks,

00:01:49.100 to no more this, no more that.

00:01:51.140 And now here we are.

00:01:52.300 Cases finally start to go down after the second wave.

00:01:55.900 And yes, I know case counts are a little bit easily manipulated,

00:01:59.640 but nevertheless, it's the metric the government is using.

00:02:02.540 So we have cases start to go down just a little bit

00:02:05.240 and the government puts in more travel restrictions,

00:02:07.780 despite the fact that travel is responsible for about 2% of the total cases.

00:02:14.420 Travel has been a scapegoat,

00:02:16.760 not an actual cause of the volume of cases that we have seen.

00:02:22.420 And it's become very easy for politicians to look and say,

00:02:25.200 oh, well, international flights are coming in.

00:02:27.020 And I hear it from a lot of you who say,

00:02:28.920 well, you know, why are international flights coming in?

00:02:30.980 Well, the fact remains that there are a lot of Canadians that are abroad

00:02:33.940 or exempt travelers that are allowed to come into the country.

00:02:36.560 But the reality is that those are not where the problems lie.

00:02:41.720 And when all of the returning politicians were coming back

00:02:44.980 after their Christmas break in December,

00:02:47.300 and I said, yeah, the hypocrisy was the issue, not the actual travel.

00:02:50.700 But one point that I raised is that a lot of these destinations

00:02:53.660 that people are going to for sunny getaways,

00:02:56.340 like the Bahamas or Barbados or Mexico is a bit different.

00:03:00.180 If you look at the case counts in these places,

00:03:03.060 they're virtually non-existent.

00:03:05.060 A lot of these places have managed to nip it in the bud

00:03:07.540 and get their cases down to single or double digits a day

00:03:11.220 because they need to do that to get their tourism back.

00:03:14.460 So they say, if you want to come here, you have to get a test before you come.

00:03:18.380 Some places make you stay in quarantine for a few days while you get there.

00:03:21.900 And then after that, you can walk around doing whatever you want in sunny paradise.

00:03:26.140 So if you are a Canadian who goes down to the Bahamas, say, and you come back,

00:03:31.740 you're more of a risk to the Bahamas than you are from the Bahamas coming back home, 1.00

00:03:37.000 which is why travel is not the problem here.

00:03:39.920 But the federal government right now in Canada has to pretend that it's doing things.

00:03:44.820 They have to distract from all of the things they've gotten wrong.

00:03:47.780 They have to distract from the bungled vaccine rollout.

00:03:51.060 They have to distract from their inability to procure vaccines in a timely manner.

00:03:55.360 And what better way to do that than by pointing to airplanes and say,

00:03:58.000 okay, they're the problem.

00:03:59.700 So what's happened in the last few days,

00:04:01.620 Justin Trudeau has reached an agreement with the Canadian air carriers

00:04:04.400 to no longer service until the end of April,

00:04:07.620 sunny destinations in the Caribbean or in Mexico.

00:04:10.740 Anyone who is outside the country must come back 1.00

00:04:13.080 and stay in a government approved hotel.

00:04:16.380 Now, I've stayed at a few hotels.

00:04:18.320 Never once have I looked for one that was government approved,

00:04:20.640 but nevertheless, you have to stay in a government approved hotel

00:04:23.540 for $2,000 approximately for three days,

00:04:26.840 which includes the hotel bill, your meals, and your COVID-19 tests.

00:04:32.480 Because yes, you don't just need to have a negative test to get on a plane to Canada.

00:04:36.680 You also need to have a negative test when you land.

00:04:40.740 And we are in doing this, of course,

00:04:42.900 just duplicating the process that is irrelevant

00:04:45.120 because at the end of it, you still have to quarantine for 14 days.

00:04:48.400 So what's the point of having a negative test

00:04:52.440 that keeps you in a government approved hotel

00:04:55.280 only to then have to go into your own facility at home

00:04:58.740 or wherever you are and quarantine for another 14 days

00:05:01.700 if you've already tested negative?

00:05:03.740 So what we're doing here is we're adding duplicating layers

00:05:06.980 that are actually just making the initial layer look a lot thicker

00:05:11.780 without actually adding any additional measures

00:05:15.240 or certainly adding any additional public safety.

00:05:18.980 And oh, by the way, if you test positive when you're in the hotel,

00:05:21.780 you get sent to a government approved quarantine facility,

00:05:24.340 which is different than the hotel.

00:05:25.780 And we don't even know what or where these things are.

00:05:28.520 But the reason I talk about all of this is not because I miss travel.

00:05:32.000 It's not about that.

00:05:32.900 I do.

00:05:33.580 It is about the lack of evidence

00:05:35.820 and the lack of science driving decisions

00:05:38.180 that are a heck of a lot more disruptive

00:05:40.240 than they are beneficial to the people

00:05:42.940 that these things are supposed to protect.

00:05:44.980 And by the way, I mean,

00:05:45.880 the fear-mongering from the Liberals is certainly working.

00:05:48.540 One poll of Canadians said that Canadians overwhelmingly support these

00:05:53.320 and 87% of respondents,

00:05:55.920 now polling is a little bit tricky, I realize,

00:05:58.160 but 87% is decisive,

00:06:00.180 think the government should go further

00:06:01.920 by banning all international travel

00:06:04.440 until there are several consecutive days of reduced COVID-19 numbers.

00:06:08.200 Now, what this would effectively do

00:06:09.980 is strand Canadians who are abroad for whatever reason overseas.

00:06:15.680 So here's the thing.

00:06:17.000 Right now, who suffers from it?

00:06:18.880 Canadian Airlines.

00:06:19.820 If you want to go to the Bahamas,

00:06:21.540 you still can,

00:06:22.400 but you can't take Air Canada or WestJet.

00:06:24.460 You have to go through the US, 1.00

00:06:26.060 which ironically enough makes it more risky

00:06:28.280 because you've added another step into the process.

00:06:31.260 You've added another destination.

00:06:33.580 So you're still allowed to go.

00:06:35.520 Canadians are allowed to travel.

00:06:37.100 You're allowed to go abroad, 1.00

00:06:38.220 but the government is trying to make it so cost prohibitive

00:06:41.160 and so logistically challenging

00:06:43.120 that it is effectively banned

00:06:44.940 without actually being illegal,

00:06:47.040 without actually turning Canada into an open-air prison

00:06:49.740 where you can check out but never leave,

00:06:51.460 as the song Hotel California tells us.

00:06:54.780 So the reason this is so ridiculous

00:06:57.180 is because if you are super wealthy,

00:06:59.400 this doesn't actually matter to you.

00:07:01.160 If the two grand to stay in a hotel

00:07:03.000 for a couple of weeks is fine

00:07:04.580 and you can pay for the tests

00:07:06.380 and you know where you're going to get your pre-departure test,

00:07:09.080 your pre-arrival test,

00:07:10.220 your arrival test,

00:07:11.100 your post-arrival test,

00:07:12.380 and you can pay the 200 bucks a pop

00:07:14.120 plus whatever other charges come along,

00:07:16.380 it doesn't actually affect you.

00:07:18.300 But what if you're someone

00:07:19.140 who wants to visit a dying relative abroad?

00:07:22.060 What if you're someone who has a job

00:07:23.700 that requires you to go overseas

00:07:25.920 but isn't actually classed as essential

00:07:28.320 under the government's narrative?

00:07:30.000 All of a sudden,

00:07:31.960 you have all of these hurdles and roadblocks

00:07:34.000 that are not keeping you safe

00:07:35.560 nor are they keeping anyone else safe

00:07:37.380 and we're supposed to believe

00:07:38.680 it's for our protection.

00:07:41.180 And what we were told the whole way

00:07:43.160 is that this is all just going to go away

00:07:45.080 once there's a vaccine,

00:07:46.300 once there's a vaccine.

00:07:47.280 Now, setting aside for a moment

00:07:49.000 the fact that the vaccine

00:07:50.680 is not a given in Canada,

00:07:52.380 this metric they were giving us

00:07:53.980 about, oh, well,

00:07:54.520 we'll have everyone vaccinated

00:07:55.600 who wants to be by the end of September

00:07:57.140 is just nowhere near happening.

00:08:00.280 But more importantly,

00:08:01.540 even if we could get people vaccinated,

00:08:03.820 that isn't going to let us get out of this.

00:08:07.340 Take a look at this exchange

00:08:08.680 from the House of Commons yesterday.

00:08:10.460 Michelle Rempel-Garner,

00:08:11.760 a Conservative MP,

00:08:12.800 was asking Transport Minister Omar Al-Ghabra

00:08:16.340 and then later a follow-up question

00:08:18.180 to Health Minister Patty Hajdu

00:08:19.480 about vaccines

00:08:20.980 and about whether people

00:08:21.960 who are fully vaccinated

00:08:23.180 against COVID-19

00:08:24.360 will still have to do

00:08:25.700 the government quarantine,

00:08:26.880 this test, that test,

00:08:28.260 and then the 14-day.

00:08:29.660 Take a look.

00:08:30.260 The Liberals could have put in place

00:08:31.800 a system of rapid testing

00:08:33.180 at airports months ago,

00:08:34.660 but refused this science-based approach.

00:08:37.000 Canada is 2 million doses

00:08:38.600 short of vaccines this week.

00:08:40.860 Will those who are vaccinated

00:08:42.360 be exempt from the Liberals'

00:08:44.260 too late travel restrictions?

00:08:46.720 The Honourable Minister.

00:08:48.380 Mr. Speaker,

00:08:49.180 I want to thank my colleague

00:08:50.660 for her question.

00:08:52.440 As I stated earlier,

00:08:54.220 Canada today has one

00:08:55.720 of the strictest rules

00:08:57.500 in the world

00:08:58.320 for discretionary travel.

00:09:01.040 We have called a year ago

00:09:03.180 on all Canadians

00:09:04.120 to avoid non-essential travel.

00:09:07.180 We've implemented new measures

00:09:08.980 earlier in the year

00:09:10.000 to make sure that

00:09:10.940 all travellers are tested

00:09:12.500 prior to boarding the plane,

00:09:14.220 and now we're implementing

00:09:15.640 new measures.

00:09:17.260 There is no evidence.

00:09:18.540 We still don't have information

00:09:20.300 about the effect

00:09:22.140 of a vaccine

00:09:23.460 on transmissibility.

00:09:25.440 Therefore,

00:09:26.440 all Canadians

00:09:27.160 will be subjected

00:09:28.020 to these measures.

00:09:28.840 The Honourable Member

00:09:30.140 for Calgary-Nose Hill.

00:09:32.180 So now the Liberals

00:09:33.000 are saying that

00:09:33.740 even being vaccinated

00:09:34.900 doesn't guarantee

00:09:35.960 an end to restrictions?

00:09:37.620 Canadians have stayed at home.

00:09:39.040 They've washed their hands,

00:09:39.940 they've worn masks,

00:09:40.880 and they've sacrificed a lot.

00:09:42.940 With rapid tests

00:09:44.160 and vaccinations

00:09:44.940 available to the world,

00:09:46.360 but not to us,

00:09:47.520 Canadians shouldn't have 1.00

00:09:48.580 to accept more restrictions

00:09:50.180 without a clear end in sight,

00:09:52.340 and without that type

00:09:53.080 of a word salad

00:09:53.900 from the Minister.

00:09:54.660 How many Canadians

00:09:56.100 will have to be vaccinated

00:09:57.460 before travel restrictions

00:09:59.120 are eased?

00:10:00.560 The Honourable Minister.

00:10:02.820 Well, thank you very much,

00:10:04.020 Mr. Speaker,

00:10:05.300 and I will just say this.

00:10:07.760 The issue of vaccination

00:10:08.980 and travel is a live one.

00:10:10.720 I met with my G7 counterparts

00:10:12.400 last week to talk

00:10:13.840 about standardization

00:10:15.720 of travel,

00:10:17.680 international travel.

00:10:18.720 Of course,

00:10:19.480 my colleague is correct.

00:10:21.060 We know that vaccination

00:10:22.220 saves lives.

00:10:23.480 The science is still unclear yet

00:10:25.300 about what effect

00:10:26.580 it has on transmission.

00:10:28.260 That science is evolving,

00:10:29.580 and we will be sharing

00:10:31.060 the understandings

00:10:32.300 and knowledge of vaccination

00:10:33.420 as it becomes clear

00:10:34.720 with Canada and the world.

00:10:38.940 So again,

00:10:40.220 just to put this into perspective,

00:10:41.720 I'm laughing,

00:10:42.460 but inside I'm really crying.

00:10:44.000 The whole point of the vaccine

00:10:45.180 is so that we can be safe,

00:10:46.800 but even if you're vaccinated,

00:10:48.120 all of these other restrictions

00:10:49.180 you still have to go along with.

00:10:51.060 So again,

00:10:51.660 the moving goalposts,

00:10:52.900 as we've said time and time again,

00:10:54.680 it's not just about

00:10:55.580 social distancing

00:10:56.520 until we flatten the curve.

00:10:58.040 It's not just about masks

00:10:59.160 until we flatten the curve.

00:11:00.720 It's not just about restrictions

00:11:01.840 until there's a vaccine.

00:11:03.240 It is a permanent lockdown,

00:11:05.520 a permanent set of restrictions

00:11:06.940 that is rapidly becoming

00:11:09.060 the new normal.

00:11:10.280 I want to get back to travel,

00:11:12.000 but just for a moment,

00:11:12.940 let's talk about masks here

00:11:14.400 because we were getting mask mandates

00:11:16.820 between the so-called

00:11:18.460 first and second wave.

00:11:20.100 So a lot of the mandatory mask orders

00:11:21.860 that went in place

00:11:22.620 were actually when cases

00:11:24.160 were quite low

00:11:25.280 in the summer months.

00:11:27.280 And what was interesting about that

00:11:29.280 is that it seemed at the time

00:11:31.220 like it wasn't doing that much.

00:11:32.720 And remember,

00:11:33.420 the second wave came about,

00:11:35.300 well,

00:11:35.580 we all had mandatory masks

00:11:37.340 in most jurisdictions in Canada.

00:11:39.560 We'll take a look at this CBC story.

00:11:41.620 Now,

00:11:41.840 we talked last week

00:11:43.100 about how double masking

00:11:44.260 is the new thing.

00:11:45.140 The CDC is telling everyone

00:11:46.500 to double mask

00:11:47.360 and then it'll be triple mask

00:11:48.880 and eventually we'll just,

00:11:49.860 you know,

00:11:50.040 keep layering on masks.

00:11:52.100 It'll be like when Joey decided

00:11:53.860 to put on Chandler's clothes

00:11:55.100 on Friends.

00:11:55.700 You just keep putting them on

00:11:56.820 until you run out of things to do.

00:12:05.440 Okay, buddy boy,

00:12:06.480 here it is.

00:12:08.140 You hide my clothes,

00:12:09.720 I'm wearing everything you own.

00:12:11.280 Oh my God.

00:12:15.440 That is so not the opposite

00:12:16.960 of taking somebody's underwear.

00:12:19.240 Look at me.

00:12:20.220 I'm Chandler.

00:12:21.220 Could I be wearing any more clothes?

00:12:24.620 But this report in CBC says

00:12:26.700 we'll wear masks

00:12:27.780 after the pandemic,

00:12:29.200 researchers predict,

00:12:30.460 and they're trying to make them better.

00:12:32.720 And this is a McMaster University

00:12:35.260 driven discussion here

00:12:36.680 where they're talking about

00:12:37.760 how they can develop

00:12:39.120 and ramp up and soup up PPE

00:12:41.160 so that people can wear them.

00:12:43.040 While many Canadians

00:12:44.200 may be longing for the day

00:12:45.820 when masks are no longer required,

00:12:47.600 teams of researchers across Canada

00:12:49.440 are working on creating

00:12:50.700 the next generation of masks

00:12:52.240 and personal protective equipment

00:12:54.100 for both healthcare workers

00:12:55.700 and the public.

00:12:57.160 Their hope is that

00:12:57.960 if they make masks

00:12:59.080 and other PPE more comfortable,

00:13:01.040 safer,

00:13:01.560 or easier to breathe in,

00:13:03.100 there's a higher chance

00:13:04.220 the general public

00:13:05.020 will use some protective gear

00:13:06.620 after the pandemic.

00:13:07.880 Now, this is not a government edict.

00:13:10.180 This is just coming from researchers.

00:13:12.060 But just take a look

00:13:13.260 at what they're sampling out here.

00:13:14.860 Is this how you want to walk around

00:13:16.220 the full head face shield with filter

00:13:18.360 or the full head face shield

00:13:20.020 with no filter

00:13:20.740 or even just the normal face shield?

00:13:23.040 Is that normal?

00:13:24.660 Is that something

00:13:25.460 that we want to have as our life?

00:13:27.960 Is that how we want to look?

00:13:30.440 I said a couple of months ago

00:13:32.220 when I was scrolling through

00:13:33.500 some TV channel guide

00:13:35.780 or whatever it was,

00:13:36.560 and I saw a trailer for some show

00:13:38.100 and it was a contemporary legal drama,

00:13:40.580 I think,

00:13:40.940 and on the show,

00:13:41.780 everyone was wearing masks.

00:13:42.980 So they have normalized COVID-19

00:13:45.640 in the show.

00:13:46.740 They've immortalized it as well

00:13:48.160 where that is just how people are.

00:13:50.060 It wasn't a show about COVID,

00:13:51.160 but it was just an expectation

00:13:53.020 that, oh yeah,

00:13:53.740 this is just how the world is.

00:13:56.160 And there's a very dangerous

00:13:58.300 aspect of that.

00:14:00.080 If we accept that

00:14:01.400 this is the way the world is now,

00:14:02.980 we lose the ability

00:14:04.560 and the willingness

00:14:05.340 to make the world better than that.

00:14:08.440 And a lot of people are going to say,

00:14:09.700 oh, well, it's just a mask.

00:14:10.540 What are you complaining about?

00:14:11.460 It's not just a mask though.

00:14:13.520 And that's the problem here.

00:14:14.980 It's not just a mask

00:14:16.000 because if we say that,

00:14:17.160 well, even without the pandemic,

00:14:18.380 we should keep wearing masks,

00:14:19.680 then we're also going to be saying

00:14:21.460 that about every other restriction in place.

00:14:24.080 Oh, we're also going to have

00:14:25.160 to keep six feet away

00:14:26.140 from each other at concerts.

00:14:27.700 Oh, we're also going to have

00:14:28.700 to make sure

00:14:29.240 that we can ever travel internationally.

00:14:31.240 Oh, we're also going to make sure

00:14:32.360 that we have to have

00:14:33.080 quarantine in government facilities.

00:14:35.280 Oh, we're just going to have to do this.

00:14:36.780 And all of these things

00:14:38.020 that are positioned

00:14:39.000 and presented to us

00:14:40.180 as temporary measures

00:14:41.900 become normalized

00:14:43.780 and become de facto

00:14:45.580 permanent solutions

00:14:47.700 or quote unquote solutions,

00:14:49.860 I guess,

00:14:50.720 when they are not achieving

00:14:52.620 the desired result.

00:14:54.840 So the answer to this

00:14:56.700 is not that we ignore everything.

00:14:59.200 It's that we do what people like me

00:15:01.320 have been calling for

00:15:02.460 since the very beginning of this,

00:15:04.160 which is focus on the numbers,

00:15:05.480 focus on the evidence,

00:15:07.260 allow places to reopen safely,

00:15:09.600 but don't put all of these restrictions

00:15:11.800 in place to make it

00:15:13.320 so that it is effectively illegal

00:15:15.220 to do something

00:15:15.940 that is actually legal to do.

00:15:17.480 In this case,

00:15:18.140 we go back to the international travel.

00:15:20.900 And they're already talking about

00:15:22.540 in this one story,

00:15:23.480 looking at potentially

00:15:24.680 domestic restrictions on travel,

00:15:27.080 where you might need

00:15:27.760 a negative COVID test

00:15:28.860 if you want to fly

00:15:29.940 from Toronto to Montreal.

00:15:33.220 So making testing

00:15:34.700 a part of air travel,

00:15:35.860 which again is going to

00:15:36.920 for a lot of people

00:15:37.720 make it so prohibitive

00:15:38.780 or so obnoxious

00:15:39.640 to travel by air

00:15:40.460 that they won't do it at all.

00:15:42.600 And what are the effects of that?

00:15:44.120 Well, for starters,

00:15:44.880 Canadians become very cooped up

00:15:46.360 and we have the mental illness challenges

00:15:48.380 and just general well-being challenges

00:15:50.500 that that brings.

00:15:51.660 It also decimates

00:15:52.900 the airline industry right now,

00:15:54.400 which is hanging on by a thread.

00:15:56.020 I mean, I was an Air Canada stockholder,

00:15:58.700 so you can imagine

00:15:59.900 that I'm partially self-interested

00:16:01.700 when I talk about this.

00:16:02.980 But the reality is

00:16:04.220 that if an airline exists right now

00:16:07.060 and they're no longer able

00:16:08.320 to sell international travel

00:16:09.860 for whatever reason,

00:16:11.240 then they can at least still hope

00:16:13.720 that people might be moving around

00:16:15.180 in the country.

00:16:16.440 Hey, why don't you travel to Banff?

00:16:18.000 Hey, why don't you travel

00:16:18.820 to the Laurentians?

00:16:19.720 Hey, why don't you see the West Coast?

00:16:21.400 Why don't, well, Atlantic Canada,

00:16:22.700 you can't really go to now.

00:16:23.740 But for an airline to have to see

00:16:26.740 a talk about domestic restrictions,

00:16:29.960 just no one's going to move anywhere.

00:16:32.620 No one's going to move

00:16:33.580 around the country anymore.

00:16:34.800 And the whole point is

00:16:35.800 that we're supposed to be

00:16:36.620 celebrating this country.

00:16:37.800 We're supposed to be proud of the country,

00:16:39.520 but you can't see it.

00:16:40.900 You can't go anywhere.

00:16:41.900 And if you are going somewhere,

00:16:43.160 all of these restrictions

00:16:44.300 make it so arduous to do anything

00:16:46.040 that a lot of people

00:16:47.040 are just going to not do them

00:16:48.560 in the first place.

00:16:50.200 So if the vaccine doesn't protect us,

00:16:52.840 because that was what Omar Al-Ghabra said.

00:16:54.460 We don't yet know

00:16:55.340 if the vaccine prevents you

00:16:57.160 from getting or contracting COVID-19.

00:17:00.360 Well, I have questions about that.

00:17:05.800 What's the point of the test?

00:17:07.440 What's the point of the trials?

00:17:09.340 What's the point of the vaccine?

00:17:11.420 If the vaccine isn't our hope,

00:17:13.040 what's the next frontier?

00:17:14.000 So this is now going down this road

00:17:18.500 where we are seeing

00:17:19.720 that control rather than public health

00:17:22.480 continues to be the focus

00:17:24.580 of a lot of these edicts.

00:17:26.620 And this has been true in other cases.

00:17:28.560 Look at, for example,

00:17:29.520 the double standards

00:17:30.380 in which protests are allowed

00:17:32.140 and which protests aren't.

00:17:33.660 But this is only going to get worse.

00:17:37.040 And when we are faced

00:17:38.500 with this question of,

00:17:39.540 hey, do we accept

00:17:40.400 that this is the new normal?

00:17:42.100 Permanent masks,

00:17:43.120 permanent travel restrictions,

00:17:44.740 permanent lockdowns,

00:17:45.860 and permanent measures

00:17:47.220 that are de facto lockdowns.

00:17:49.140 Like social distancing, for example.

00:17:51.420 Sure, you can have a grocery store

00:17:52.860 where everyone has to be

00:17:53.740 six feet apart from each other,

00:17:55.220 but restaurants cannot survive

00:17:56.880 with spaced out tables.

00:17:58.520 A concert could not be profitable

00:18:00.340 with spaced out audiences.

00:18:02.340 So a lot of these things

00:18:03.260 would actually decimate various sectors

00:18:06.440 if they were to ever reopen

00:18:08.360 or basically prevent them

00:18:09.520 from ever being able to reopen.

00:18:11.000 Yeah, I mean,

00:18:11.800 the whole bubble approach to concerts

00:18:13.380 just isn't going to happen

00:18:14.660 and certainly isn't financially viable.

00:18:16.640 I mean, it might be good now

00:18:17.520 when people are just desperate

00:18:18.420 for something to do.

00:18:19.760 But I say again,

00:18:20.880 and this is very important,

00:18:22.500 this cannot be a new normal.

00:18:25.880 This is not the way life is supposed to be.

00:18:28.720 And if it is,

00:18:29.460 the lawmakers who have been

00:18:30.620 pushing us into this new normal

00:18:32.120 have to own up to the fact

00:18:33.600 that they were being dishonest

00:18:34.940 when they set all of these measures out

00:18:37.060 that would allow us

00:18:38.080 to get back to the old normal.

00:18:39.380 If you're going to take

00:18:40.340 the old normal away from us,

00:18:41.560 just say it outright,

00:18:42.740 say it clearly.

00:18:43.720 We'll be back in a moment

00:18:44.720 with more of The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:18:46.300 Stay tuned.

00:18:48.940 You're tuned in

00:18:50.060 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:18:54.700 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:18:56.920 We've talked at great length

00:18:58.400 on the program

00:18:59.020 about the Liberal government's

00:19:00.560 attempts to regulate online content,

00:19:03.900 the things you or I

00:19:05.040 or any Canadian can post online

00:19:07.160 under the auspices of curbing online hate.

00:19:10.540 Now, I covered back in Ottawa,

00:19:12.280 I think it would have been in 2019,

00:19:14.260 the hearings that the Justice Committee held,

00:19:16.500 which ultimately ended

00:19:17.780 with a recommendation to Parliament

00:19:19.420 shortly before the 2019 election

00:19:21.440 that a law be enacted

00:19:23.440 that take this seriously,

00:19:24.860 that actually start regulating

00:19:26.220 what content people can put online

00:19:28.500 by regulating the companies

00:19:30.500 like Facebook and Twitter and Google

00:19:32.560 who allow people to post things online.

00:19:35.280 Now, this is not about big tech censorship here

00:19:37.940 because this is now government-empowered

00:19:40.300 and government-endorsed tech censorship.

00:19:43.040 So all of a sudden,

00:19:43.860 if Facebook or Twitter

00:19:44.860 delete something that you wrote

00:19:46.560 or suspends your account,

00:19:47.920 they could be doing so

00:19:48.960 because they actually are worried

00:19:50.360 that the government will find them

00:19:51.840 if they don't.

00:19:53.100 So this is actually giving

00:19:54.300 more of an excuse

00:19:55.840 for companies like these tech giants

00:19:57.820 to censor you

00:19:58.580 rather than less of one.

00:20:00.220 It's not protecting free speech at all.

00:20:02.500 But the whole point of this is

00:20:03.780 we have not yet seen until now

00:20:05.960 a definition of how the government

00:20:08.420 is going to view hate

00:20:09.620 or even what the mechanisms

00:20:11.480 are going to be in this.

00:20:13.560 In an interview with La Presse,

00:20:15.180 the Heritage Minister,

00:20:16.340 Stephen Gilbeau,

00:20:17.180 who's responsible for advancing

00:20:18.620 this legislation,

00:20:20.040 gave us more detail

00:20:21.320 than he's given us to date.

00:20:23.020 And everything I've said

00:20:24.460 about why this is so dangerous

00:20:26.020 has been vindicated

00:20:27.860 by this interview.

00:20:29.560 I'm going to read

00:20:30.160 a couple of sections of it

00:20:31.340 for you here.

00:20:31.940 One in particular,

00:20:33.860 Stephen Gilbeau says

00:20:34.960 that companies will be fined

00:20:36.260 tens of millions of dollars

00:20:37.600 if they don't.

00:20:38.400 So if they don't go along

00:20:39.700 with what the government's

00:20:40.460 telling them to do.

00:20:41.360 So as I said,

00:20:42.080 more of an incentive

00:20:42.860 to play ball

00:20:44.100 with however the government

00:20:44.940 defines it.

00:20:45.980 But what he tells La Presse

00:20:47.340 is that the definition

00:20:48.340 of hate speech

00:20:49.160 is said to be taken

00:20:50.540 from the Watcott decision

00:20:52.080 of the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:20:55.060 Now, I don't want to go through

00:20:56.140 the whole litany

00:20:57.440 of evidence

00:20:58.580 that went into

00:20:59.140 the Watcott decision,

00:21:00.100 but it was a very significant one

00:21:01.700 between Bill Watcott

00:21:03.400 and the Saskatchewan

00:21:04.560 Human Rights Commission

00:21:05.480 which ended up going

00:21:06.780 to the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:21:08.740 The decision,

00:21:09.760 which was unanimous

00:21:10.760 if memory serves,

00:21:12.000 was very dangerous

00:21:13.240 because it focused

00:21:14.440 not on free speech

00:21:15.640 but on the idea of harm

00:21:17.640 and the harm

00:21:18.900 that speech can cause

00:21:20.280 but not even harm

00:21:21.640 that needs to be proven.

00:21:23.240 One section of the decision

00:21:24.940 in particular stands out.

00:21:26.680 The difficulty

00:21:27.660 of establishing causality

00:21:29.600 and the seriousness

00:21:30.780 of the harm

00:21:31.600 to vulnerable groups

00:21:32.720 justifies the imposition

00:21:34.460 of preventative measures

00:21:35.700 that do not require

00:21:37.120 proof of actual harm.

00:21:39.480 The discriminatory effects

00:21:40.740 of hate speech

00:21:41.360 are part of the everyday knowledge

00:21:42.860 and experience of Canadians.

00:21:44.740 As such,

00:21:45.460 the legislature is entitled

00:21:46.640 to a reasonable apprehension

00:21:48.540 of societal harm

00:21:50.100 as a result of hate speech.

00:21:51.780 The lack of defenses

00:21:52.880 is not fatal

00:21:53.920 to the constitutionality

00:21:55.540 of the provision.

00:21:56.760 Truthful statements

00:21:57.920 can be presented

00:21:59.060 in a manner

00:21:59.800 that would meet

00:22:00.780 the definition

00:22:01.460 of hate speech

00:22:02.280 and not all truthful statements

00:22:04.500 must be free

00:22:05.540 from restriction.

00:22:07.160 Allowing the dissemination

00:22:08.500 of hate speech

00:22:09.200 to be excused

00:22:10.100 by a sincerely held belief

00:22:12.240 would provide

00:22:13.220 an absolute defense

00:22:14.360 and would gut

00:22:15.120 the prohibition

00:22:16.060 of effectiveness.

00:22:17.640 The benefits

00:22:18.340 of the suppression

00:22:19.300 of hate speech

00:22:20.000 and its harmful effects

00:22:21.100 outweigh

00:22:22.000 the detrimental effects

00:22:23.740 of restricting expression

00:22:25.200 which by its nature

00:22:26.580 does little

00:22:27.600 to promote

00:22:28.160 the values

00:22:28.700 underlying freedom

00:22:29.900 of expression.

00:22:31.680 The protection

00:22:32.240 of vulnerable groups

00:22:33.240 from the harmful effect

00:22:34.280 emanating from hate speech

00:22:35.860 is of such importance

00:22:36.980 as to justify

00:22:38.160 the minimal

00:22:38.820 infringement

00:22:39.780 of expression.

00:22:41.120 Now,

00:22:41.540 the backstory of this,

00:22:42.780 the context of this

00:22:43.760 is that Bill Wadcott

00:22:44.680 was using his right

00:22:45.860 to free speech

00:22:46.500 to speak out

00:22:47.400 against homosexuality 1.00

00:22:48.620 from the basis

00:22:49.460 of his theological beliefs,

00:22:51.680 his religious beliefs.

00:22:53.040 And again,

00:22:53.620 the whole point

00:22:54.200 of this decision though

00:22:55.080 is not about

00:22:55.580 the individual case,

00:22:57.120 it's about now

00:22:57.960 what's being extrapolated

00:22:59.160 to everything.

00:23:00.180 Whereas a truthful statement

00:23:01.680 could be hateful,

00:23:03.000 belief in what you say

00:23:04.300 could still be hateful,

00:23:05.600 and this is something

00:23:06.600 that we're supposed

00:23:07.280 to accept

00:23:07.900 because even if you

00:23:09.120 haven't proven actual harm,

00:23:11.000 the harmful effects

00:23:11.980 to society

00:23:12.640 in the grand abstract sense

00:23:14.440 outweigh the harmful effects

00:23:16.140 of censoring someone.

00:23:17.340 So what the liberal government

00:23:19.700 is using

00:23:20.440 is a Supreme Court decision

00:23:22.380 that has no respect

00:23:23.720 for free speech

00:23:24.640 as its basis

00:23:25.780 for a law

00:23:26.500 that is going to curb

00:23:27.520 online content

00:23:28.580 and regulate social media

00:23:30.260 companies into compliance.

00:23:32.680 Stephen Gobeau says

00:23:33.720 that companies

00:23:34.220 can't self-regulate.

00:23:35.300 He said they're never

00:23:35.780 going to do this

00:23:36.300 on their own

00:23:36.760 so the government

00:23:37.580 needs to get involved.

00:23:39.860 But what they're doing

00:23:40.800 is shoehorning this in

00:23:42.480 because they know

00:23:43.640 two things.

00:23:44.340 Number one,

00:23:44.820 they know that there

00:23:45.440 is an appetite

00:23:46.080 after the Capitol Hill assault

00:23:48.120 and Stephen Gobeau

00:23:48.880 admits as much

00:23:49.700 to justify going

00:23:50.960 after social media companies

00:23:52.440 but beyond that

00:23:53.880 that there is also

00:23:54.900 this possibility

00:23:56.460 he seems to indicate

00:23:57.480 that there could be

00:23:58.100 an election on the horizon

00:23:59.180 so they're going to put

00:24:00.100 this through very quickly

00:24:01.040 just in case

00:24:02.000 we go to the polls

00:24:03.280 this year

00:24:03.940 in the coming months.

00:24:06.000 But they're talking

00:24:07.300 about now

00:24:07.960 using a Supreme Court

00:24:09.480 decision

00:24:09.960 that is by its nature

00:24:12.060 placing free speech

00:24:14.120 at a lower level

00:24:15.360 than protecting society

00:24:16.960 from this vague sense

00:24:18.480 of harm.

00:24:19.600 Not protecting individuals

00:24:20.680 from harm

00:24:21.240 but protecting society

00:24:22.840 from harm

00:24:23.440 and we're supposed

00:24:24.440 to think that the government

00:24:25.460 actually cares

00:24:26.360 about free speech?

00:24:27.820 Give me a break.

00:24:29.060 We'll be back in a moment

00:24:29.900 with more of

00:24:30.540 The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:24:31.480 Stay tuned.

00:24:33.140 You're tuned in

00:24:34.380 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:24:40.900 Welcome back

00:24:41.860 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:24:43.380 So Justin Trudeau

00:24:44.760 and Vice President

00:24:45.640 Kamala Harris

00:24:46.480 yesterday had

00:24:47.320 their first official conversation.

00:24:49.200 They spoke about

00:24:50.320 diversity and inclusion.

00:24:52.040 They spoke about

00:24:52.740 climate change.

00:24:53.640 They spoke about

00:24:54.380 all sorts of things

00:24:55.580 even online hate

00:24:56.600 but not

00:24:57.180 the giant

00:24:58.320 cancellation

00:24:59.240 of the Keystone XL pipeline

00:25:01.500 which is jeopardizing jobs

00:25:03.020 in both of the leaders' countries

00:25:04.780 and costing billions of dollars.

00:25:07.300 The Keystone XL pipeline

00:25:08.560 apparently

00:25:09.000 no longer a priority

00:25:10.500 which makes me wonder

00:25:11.820 who is speaking up

00:25:13.200 for the Alberta jobs

00:25:14.640 the Saskatchewan jobs

00:25:15.820 the effect

00:25:16.640 of the Canadian economy.

00:25:18.080 Very few people

00:25:18.900 at the federal level.

00:25:20.300 One man who has always

00:25:21.400 spoken up about

00:25:22.500 these things

00:25:23.040 and the importance

00:25:23.620 of the Canadian energy sector

00:25:25.000 is Michael Binion

00:25:26.240 the Executive Director

00:25:27.480 of the Modern Miracle Network

00:25:28.900 who joins me now.

00:25:30.360 Michael, good to talk to you.

00:25:31.300 Thanks for coming on today.

00:25:32.900 Oh, it's my pleasure Andrew.

00:25:34.120 You know, one of the things

00:25:35.300 that I find to be

00:25:36.080 the most upsetting

00:25:36.900 about this

00:25:37.480 is that we saw

00:25:38.520 the federal government

00:25:39.380 prepare to move mountains

00:25:40.660 when Quebec jobs

00:25:41.860 were in jeopardy

00:25:42.620 with SNC-Lavalin

00:25:43.620 a couple of years ago

00:25:44.920 but when we talk

00:25:45.960 about the oil sector

00:25:47.020 which is not just Alberta

00:25:48.140 but it is a national sector

00:25:49.880 very few people advocating

00:25:51.960 for Canadian jobs

00:25:53.340 in this area.

00:25:55.200 Yes.

00:25:55.980 Yeah, I mean

00:25:56.860 of course we do have

00:25:58.620 a government in Alberta

00:25:59.480 that does advocate

00:26:00.280 for that

00:26:00.960 and others

00:26:02.480 across the country

00:26:03.780 but certainly

00:26:05.780 our federal government

00:26:06.820 is a

00:26:08.320 you know

00:26:08.860 I think we've heard

00:26:09.400 the Prime Minister

00:26:09.960 talk about

00:26:10.680 the Great Reset

00:26:11.620 and I noticed

00:26:13.320 in the readout

00:26:13.960 from the

00:26:14.420 or from the summary

00:26:15.520 of the conversation

00:26:16.220 with the Vice President

00:26:17.080 that they explicitly

00:26:18.060 talked about

00:26:18.720 Build Back Better

00:26:19.320 so you know

00:26:20.300 both Build Back Better

00:26:21.840 and Great Reset

00:26:22.740 slogans

00:26:23.660 include a

00:26:24.800 you know

00:26:25.720 include a

00:26:26.880 you know

00:26:27.300 leave it in the ground

00:26:28.100 component

00:26:28.580 and switching to

00:26:30.100 other forms of energy.

00:26:31.380 One thing that I find

00:26:33.580 just the most bizarre

00:26:34.480 about the Keystone

00:26:35.520 cancellation

00:26:36.040 which was done

00:26:37.280 by executive order

00:26:38.320 from Joe Biden

00:26:39.280 on his first day

00:26:40.120 in office as president

00:26:41.340 is that

00:26:41.900 this wasn't actually

00:26:43.440 about some idea

00:26:45.540 some project

00:26:46.460 that was still stuck

00:26:47.420 in R&D

00:26:47.980 this was

00:26:48.440 construction already began

00:26:50.160 and the cross-border section

00:26:52.260 which is arguably

00:26:52.880 the most contentious

00:26:53.740 section of the pipeline

00:26:54.640 literally in the ground.

00:26:57.540 Yeah

00:26:58.080 you know

00:26:58.760 the one thing

00:26:59.960 and of course

00:27:00.380 we haven't seen

00:27:01.540 from the Prime Minister

00:27:03.500 bringing up

00:27:05.260 either the legal

00:27:07.200 side of this

00:27:08.140 which is

00:27:08.780 you know

00:27:09.160 there was an

00:27:09.760 approval given

00:27:11.540 there was a permit

00:27:12.220 and people

00:27:12.960 in good faith

00:27:13.760 on both sides

00:27:14.420 of the borders

00:27:14.740 the Canadian company

00:27:16.000 in particular

00:27:16.420 TC Energy

00:27:17.040 and the government

00:27:18.320 of Alberta

00:27:18.720 you know

00:27:19.320 all relied on

00:27:20.200 the agreement

00:27:21.200 of the US government

00:27:22.980 so there's that one side

00:27:24.600 the other thing

00:27:25.140 we haven't seen

00:27:25.740 from the Prime Minister

00:27:26.580 is a defense

00:27:27.780 of our environmental record

00:27:29.060 I mean a lot

00:27:30.080 has changed

00:27:31.340 since the Vice President

00:27:33.380 or since the President

00:27:34.500 was last Vice President

00:27:35.580 and last in office

00:27:36.320 I mean that was

00:27:36.880 that was

00:27:37.600 you know

00:27:38.480 four years ago plus

00:27:39.920 and it's incredible

00:27:41.500 the environmental

00:27:42.980 progress

00:27:44.180 that's been made

00:27:44.840 you know

00:27:45.120 on that pipeline

00:27:45.780 in particular

00:27:46.300 in the industry

00:27:46.980 in general

00:27:47.620 and our Prime Minister

00:27:49.120 as I said

00:27:49.820 didn't speak up

00:27:50.560 for us on the

00:27:51.120 just a second

00:27:51.820 there was an agreement

00:27:52.600 here

00:27:53.020 and how can you

00:27:53.920 cancel it

00:27:54.500 not just that

00:27:56.160 there was an agreement

00:27:56.640 we've already

00:27:57.360 put billions of dollars

00:27:58.720 into construction

00:27:59.580 under that agreement

00:28:00.440 how can you do that

00:28:01.740 just under a rule of law

00:28:03.220 and rule of international law

00:28:04.660 you know

00:28:05.440 our NAFTA agreements

00:28:07.280 our former NAFTA agreements

00:28:08.320 I think still apply

00:28:09.160 to some of this

00:28:09.780 and on the other side

00:28:12.120 just a second

00:28:12.820 why would you want to do it

00:28:13.960 we've got best in the world

00:28:15.520 environmental performance here

00:28:16.760 yeah

00:28:18.220 and that's

00:28:18.800 I think the most

00:28:19.460 disingenuous part of this

00:28:20.740 is that the

00:28:21.480 narrative that's been

00:28:22.520 put forward

00:28:23.040 by the Biden administration

00:28:24.300 and by a lot of the people

00:28:25.300 that have been

00:28:25.840 very anti-pipeline

00:28:27.360 is that

00:28:27.940 you get pipelines

00:28:29.140 or you get

00:28:29.960 environmental policy

00:28:31.140 and that the two

00:28:31.800 are inherently

00:28:32.580 contradictory

00:28:33.260 which I've never

00:28:34.620 quite understood

00:28:35.420 because ending a pipeline

00:28:37.240 does not reduce

00:28:38.100 demand on oil

00:28:39.140 it just reduces supply

00:28:40.760 but the supply

00:28:41.800 has got to get there

00:28:42.580 some other way

00:28:43.240 so you see tankers

00:28:44.420 you see rail

00:28:45.180 you see other means

00:28:46.400 of transporting oil

00:28:47.440 that are less

00:28:48.220 environmentally sound

00:28:49.460 than a pipeline

00:28:50.600 this is

00:28:53.040 so we know

00:28:54.140 there's more to

00:28:55.040 the motivations

00:28:56.160 of people

00:28:56.920 when you do see

00:28:59.060 best in the world

00:29:00.160 environmental performance

00:29:01.440 incredible progress

00:29:04.060 on emissions intensity

00:29:05.280 a pipeline

00:29:06.600 the first pipeline

00:29:07.620 I think that was going

00:29:08.220 to use 100%

00:29:09.140 renewable energy

00:29:09.920 to run the pipeline

00:29:11.200 I mean

00:29:11.780 this would have been

00:29:13.540 a world leading

00:29:16.160 example of

00:29:17.260 low emissions pipeline

00:29:18.560 I mean

00:29:19.480 if people really

00:29:21.900 did care

00:29:22.740 about

00:29:23.600 transitioning

00:29:24.820 our energy

00:29:25.560 systems

00:29:26.180 globally

00:29:26.780 to something

00:29:27.940 better in the future

00:29:28.700 they would want that

00:29:30.640 they would be

00:29:31.300 celebrating

00:29:32.380 what Canadians

00:29:33.380 are doing

00:29:34.080 as best in the world

00:29:35.520 environmental performance

00:29:36.640 reducing emissions

00:29:37.780 and not taking

00:29:40.380 the best in the world

00:29:41.220 off the market

00:29:41.960 only so the worst

00:29:43.200 in the world

00:29:43.540 can sell more

00:29:44.320 and the net effect

00:29:45.440 can only be

00:29:46.540 more emissions

00:29:47.100 so how can they

00:29:48.200 where's the logic

00:29:50.300 if we're doing this

00:29:51.340 to reduce

00:29:52.680 environmental impacts

00:29:53.640 but the impact

00:29:55.040 of this is going

00:29:55.560 to actually be

00:29:56.240 increased global

00:29:57.060 environmental impacts

00:29:59.220 yeah and I guess

00:30:00.600 that's where

00:30:01.220 even the narrative

00:30:02.440 that they put forward

00:30:03.480 as being the

00:30:04.060 justification for this

00:30:05.180 doesn't really hold water

00:30:06.500 but at the very least

00:30:07.920 we're talking about

00:30:09.080 a level of

00:30:10.260 employment

00:30:11.100 that is desperately

00:30:12.360 needed right now

00:30:13.280 I mean this is now

00:30:14.300 a government signing

00:30:15.180 a death warrant

00:30:15.820 for jobs

00:30:16.420 at a time

00:30:17.200 when private sector

00:30:17.980 jobs are already

00:30:18.760 facing immense strain

00:30:19.840 because of the

00:30:20.460 COVID pandemic

00:30:21.340 yeah and I

00:30:24.920 and I think we see

00:30:25.800 this from the

00:30:26.920 Trudeau government

00:30:27.680 too

00:30:28.120 I really had thought

00:30:30.380 when the

00:30:30.760 you know

00:30:31.360 with the pandemic

00:30:32.040 crisis

00:30:32.640 which has affected

00:30:33.880 all of us so much

00:30:34.720 right

00:30:34.920 we would see

00:30:37.560 a return to

00:30:38.380 pragmatism

00:30:39.080 what's the

00:30:40.460 what's the best

00:30:41.700 way to solve

00:30:42.700 the you know

00:30:43.600 the pandemic

00:30:44.440 crisis in the

00:30:45.240 short term

00:30:45.680 but also to

00:30:46.600 help people

00:30:47.480 get back to

00:30:48.200 work

00:30:48.420 I mean

00:30:48.640 this is

00:30:49.360 you know

00:30:49.900 families across

00:30:50.760 across the

00:30:51.440 country

00:30:51.720 who've

00:30:52.160 who've been

00:30:52.900 who've been

00:30:53.340 hurt

00:30:53.540 and many of

00:30:54.400 them

00:30:54.560 many of them

00:30:55.220 losing life

00:30:56.100 savings etc

00:30:56.620 so let's

00:30:57.840 let's how do we

00:30:58.840 get them back

00:30:59.360 to work

00:30:59.740 and instead of

00:31:00.800 a return to

00:31:01.420 pragmatism

00:31:01.980 it seemed to be

00:31:03.080 what a great

00:31:03.700 opportunity to

00:31:04.360 double down

00:31:04.920 on ideology

00:31:06.240 and what a

00:31:07.620 great opportunity

00:31:08.120 for us to

00:31:08.680 convince people

00:31:09.380 to

00:31:09.640 destroy an

00:31:13.460 industry

00:31:13.820 to destroy a

00:31:14.720 whole sector

00:31:15.200 of jobs

00:31:15.720 so it's

00:31:17.300 a surprise

00:31:18.540 I would go so

00:31:20.760 far as to say

00:31:21.100 I was a little

00:31:21.440 bit shocked

00:31:21.940 even that we

00:31:22.460 didn't see a

00:31:22.980 return to

00:31:23.460 pragmatic

00:31:23.920 approach

00:31:25.980 and have

00:31:27.660 Canadians all

00:31:28.220 come together

00:31:28.660 let's solve

00:31:29.140 this crisis

00:31:29.600 together

00:31:30.080 and you know

00:31:31.360 we've talked

00:31:31.760 about it

00:31:31.980 we're all in

00:31:32.320 this together

00:31:32.780 I mean

00:31:33.000 people made

00:31:33.420 that we're

00:31:33.720 all in

00:31:33.920 this together

00:31:34.360 well if

00:31:35.420 we're all

00:31:35.640 in this

00:31:35.840 together

00:31:36.100 why are

00:31:36.520 we destroying

00:31:37.440 an industry

00:31:38.240 with world

00:31:38.680 leading performance

00:31:39.440 or working

00:31:40.300 together with

00:31:40.880 the US

00:31:41.180 government

00:31:41.420 to destroy

00:31:41.860 an industry

00:31:42.260 with world

00:31:43.120 leading performance

00:31:43.780 makes no

00:31:44.800 sense

00:31:45.100 but it is

00:31:45.820 an example

00:31:46.380 of you know

00:31:46.740 ideology

00:31:47.220 over pragmatism

00:31:49.100 when you say

00:31:49.900 ideology though

00:31:50.700 that is I

00:31:51.300 think very

00:31:51.840 telling

00:31:52.280 because this

00:31:53.360 is not just

00:31:54.180 against pipelines

00:31:55.560 but it's

00:31:56.080 actually a

00:31:56.820 fundamental

00:31:57.200 rejection

00:31:57.840 of oil

00:31:58.920 as a source

00:31:59.520 of energy

00:32:00.020 but they

00:32:00.900 don't have

00:32:01.580 an alternative

00:32:02.220 I mean

00:32:02.840 even the

00:32:03.220 renewables

00:32:03.760 they talk

00:32:04.500 about like

00:32:05.120 oh well

00:32:05.700 solar and

00:32:06.300 wind

00:32:06.520 I mean

00:32:06.760 these are

00:32:07.180 not things

00:32:07.780 that are

00:32:08.080 capable

00:32:08.460 of doing

00:32:09.100 what oil

00:32:10.560 and gas

00:32:11.120 are

00:32:11.500 so is

00:32:12.220 there

00:32:12.400 actually

00:32:12.900 a what

00:32:13.360 comes

00:32:13.700 next

00:32:14.060 to the

00:32:14.680 activists

00:32:15.100 that are

00:32:15.380 trying

00:32:15.620 to go

00:32:15.940 after

00:32:16.220 pipelines

00:32:16.800 yeah

00:32:18.320 well I

00:32:18.820 I guess

00:32:19.520 I look

00:32:19.960 at and say

00:32:20.360 well would

00:32:20.880 it be

00:32:21.180 possible

00:32:21.720 for one

00:32:22.640 country

00:32:23.060 you know

00:32:23.480 Germany

00:32:23.840 Denmark

00:32:24.280 Canada

00:32:24.740 you know

00:32:25.400 one of

00:32:25.680 the rich

00:32:26.500 G7

00:32:27.120 or OECD

00:32:27.780 countries

00:32:28.140 say

00:32:28.340 well we're

00:32:29.000 going to

00:32:29.260 go off

00:32:29.700 oil

00:32:29.980 as a

00:32:30.340 demonstration

00:32:30.780 to the

00:32:31.400 world

00:32:31.720 of an

00:32:32.180 ideology

00:32:32.700 I mean

00:32:34.160 it's okay

00:32:34.460 well that

00:32:34.960 that seems

00:32:35.840 like maybe

00:32:36.480 that's

00:32:36.840 possible

00:32:37.260 but if

00:32:38.280 we're looking

00:32:38.660 at this

00:32:38.980 as a

00:32:39.400 we truly

00:32:40.220 look at this

00:32:40.660 we've got a

00:32:41.160 global issue

00:32:42.040 of emissions

00:32:43.480 and we've got a

00:32:44.240 global issue

00:32:44.860 of population

00:32:45.500 growth

00:32:45.820 and all of

00:32:46.280 the all of

00:32:47.000 the impacts

00:32:47.540 that that's

00:32:47.940 that has on

00:32:48.560 our environment

00:32:49.000 how do we

00:32:49.680 manage that

00:32:50.320 better

00:32:50.740 globally

00:32:51.320 well then

00:32:52.040 this makes

00:32:52.380 absolutely

00:32:52.800 no sense

00:32:53.700 whatsoever

00:32:54.440 you know

00:32:56.040 our industry

00:32:56.660 in Canada

00:32:57.440 you know

00:32:58.400 are coming

00:32:59.540 up with

00:33:00.000 real world

00:33:00.860 solutions

00:33:01.440 that will

00:33:02.200 make the

00:33:02.880 global

00:33:03.240 problem

00:33:03.760 better

00:33:04.140 and we

00:33:05.440 have a

00:33:05.980 government

00:33:06.260 saying

00:33:06.720 no

00:33:07.160 we just

00:33:08.120 want to

00:33:08.580 see lower

00:33:09.100 emissions

00:33:09.420 in Canada

00:33:09.960 we don't

00:33:10.340 we don't

00:33:10.720 care if

00:33:11.520 that would

00:33:11.820 cause

00:33:12.140 higher

00:33:12.500 emissions

00:33:12.880 globally

00:33:13.320 we just

00:33:14.000 want lower 0.99

00:33:14.480 emissions

00:33:14.780 in Canada

00:33:15.140 I wrote

00:33:15.880 a paper

00:33:16.260 on this

00:33:16.620 you know

00:33:16.880 called

00:33:17.280 carbon

00:33:17.800 leakage

00:33:18.220 when

00:33:18.440 and you

00:33:19.320 know

00:33:19.440 very simply

00:33:20.500 carbon

00:33:20.880 leakage

00:33:21.160 is when

00:33:21.960 you know

00:33:22.540 your policies

00:33:23.980 at home

00:33:24.560 reduce

00:33:25.200 emissions

00:33:25.900 here

00:33:26.280 but the

00:33:26.800 net effect

00:33:27.280 is you

00:33:27.560 actually

00:33:28.540 just move

00:33:28.980 them

00:33:29.120 somewhere

00:33:29.480 else

00:33:29.820 and the

00:33:30.160 emissions

00:33:30.460 go up

00:33:31.000 so it's

00:33:31.900 also referred

00:33:32.440 to as a

00:33:32.800 green paradox

00:33:33.400 but Canada

00:33:34.440 is living it

00:33:35.000 we're implementing

00:33:36.540 policies

00:33:37.560 like our

00:33:38.840 seen

00:33:39.680 cooperation

00:33:41.160 with the

00:33:41.740 Americans

00:33:42.140 on cancelling

00:33:42.680 this pipeline

00:33:43.120 we're implementing

00:33:45.340 policies here

00:33:46.360 that may reduce

00:33:47.560 emissions here

00:33:48.220 but they will

00:33:48.840 cause global

00:33:49.520 emissions

00:33:49.920 on a net

00:33:50.920 base

00:33:51.200 go up

00:33:52.140 because as you

00:33:52.720 mentioned

00:33:53.040 that oil

00:33:53.960 is going to

00:33:54.220 be replaced

00:33:54.700 by someone

00:33:55.300 the US

00:33:56.820 refineries

00:33:57.460 in that

00:33:57.760 part of

00:33:58.040 the world

00:33:58.360 will

00:33:58.980 their other

00:33:59.600 two options

00:34:00.160 are Mexico 0.89

00:34:00.640 and Venezuela

00:34:01.240 is there

00:34:02.200 anybody

00:34:02.660 that thinks

00:34:03.300 that the

00:34:03.580 environmental

00:34:03.940 performance

00:34:04.500 of Mexico

00:34:05.020 and Venezuela

00:34:05.520 is better

00:34:05.980 than ours

00:34:06.400 yeah you

00:34:07.140 raise I

00:34:07.720 think a

00:34:07.960 really important

00:34:08.560 point there

00:34:09.160 and it is

00:34:09.760 interesting

00:34:10.160 because we

00:34:10.660 hear all the

00:34:11.520 time that

00:34:12.000 you know

00:34:12.480 what we

00:34:12.800 can't have

00:34:13.200 local solutions

00:34:14.100 to climate

00:34:14.920 change and

00:34:15.380 emissions

00:34:15.680 because these

00:34:16.640 are global

00:34:17.360 problems

00:34:17.900 it's a global

00:34:18.480 phenomena

00:34:18.940 but the

00:34:19.820 reality is

00:34:20.880 that countries

00:34:21.600 are competing

00:34:22.260 with each

00:34:22.660 other even

00:34:23.020 within countries

00:34:23.740 states are

00:34:24.300 competing with

00:34:24.800 other states

00:34:25.420 provinces are

00:34:26.360 competing with

00:34:26.840 other provinces

00:34:27.800 to be competitive

00:34:28.560 so if a country

00:34:30.120 does do this

00:34:30.920 whole utopian

00:34:31.700 idea take the

00:34:33.080 Paris climate

00:34:33.740 agreement and

00:34:34.580 follow through

00:34:36.160 with those plans

00:34:36.900 and go above

00:34:37.880 and beyond

00:34:38.260 all that really

00:34:39.120 does is allow

00:34:39.980 for someone

00:34:40.820 else to be

00:34:41.500 the beneficiary

00:34:42.200 of these jobs

00:34:42.880 and it's not to

00:34:43.400 say that countries

00:34:44.380 should do nothing

00:34:45.080 but I think there

00:34:45.780 needs to be a lot

00:34:46.420 more celebration

00:34:47.240 of the point

00:34:48.220 that you've

00:34:48.640 raised Michael

00:34:49.140 which is how

00:34:49.660 much the private

00:34:50.320 sector has already

00:34:51.160 advanced on these

00:34:52.600 issues much

00:34:53.560 quicker than

00:34:54.320 I would add

00:34:54.900 many governments

00:34:55.920 have

00:34:56.260 yeah I

00:34:58.820 you know I

00:34:59.240 think that

00:34:59.700 that's exactly

00:35:01.620 right and you

00:35:02.260 know what I

00:35:02.500 would say as

00:35:02.980 well is I

00:35:03.440 mean I think

00:35:03.840 people in

00:35:04.360 industry and

00:35:05.280 I'll count

00:35:05.860 myself you

00:35:06.600 know among

00:35:06.880 those people

00:35:07.320 but you know

00:35:07.740 some of the

00:35:08.120 bigger companies

00:35:08.800 Suncor,

00:35:09.700 CNRL etc

00:35:10.420 I think that

00:35:11.980 they have really

00:35:12.680 embraced this

00:35:13.600 idea that we

00:35:14.300 do need to

00:35:14.860 transition our

00:35:15.520 energy systems

00:35:16.300 but on a

00:35:17.340 realistic basis

00:35:18.020 looking at the

00:35:18.640 global problem

00:35:19.480 of supplying

00:35:20.000 global energy

00:35:20.620 to a growing

00:35:21.180 population

00:35:21.820 they've realized

00:35:22.960 that that future

00:35:23.660 energy mix is

00:35:24.400 going to include

00:35:25.200 hydrocarbons

00:35:25.980 and which is not

00:35:26.900 to say we should

00:35:27.440 be against wind

00:35:28.440 right you know

00:35:28.980 right energy in

00:35:29.580 its right place

00:35:30.200 in some places

00:35:31.140 that's wind

00:35:31.820 in some places

00:35:32.520 it's hydro

00:35:33.080 nuclear solar

00:35:34.940 and as technology

00:35:36.400 changes the right

00:35:37.180 energy in its right

00:35:38.060 place will change

00:35:38.760 as well

00:35:39.120 but you know

00:35:40.020 I think a lot

00:35:40.520 of people are

00:35:41.540 recognizing that

00:35:42.480 solar and wind

00:35:43.720 you know the

00:35:44.040 technology is

00:35:44.700 advancing quickly

00:35:45.620 we're all hearing

00:35:46.260 about that all the

00:35:46.840 time

00:35:47.100 what seems to be

00:35:48.680 going unnoticed

00:35:49.560 is that I think

00:35:50.660 the oil and gas

00:35:51.300 industry is

00:35:51.800 innovating even

00:35:52.600 faster

00:35:53.100 you know we're

00:35:54.160 under pressure

00:35:55.020 to provide

00:35:55.820 you know a

00:35:56.760 product that's

00:35:57.500 that people

00:35:57.980 come to rely

00:35:58.680 on it's I

00:35:59.100 think I think

00:35:59.800 an excellent

00:36:00.680 product from

00:36:01.300 its from its

00:36:02.100 just physical

00:36:03.300 components and

00:36:04.060 what it can do

00:36:04.960 for whether

00:36:05.560 making plastics

00:36:06.420 for hospitals

00:36:07.000 or compact

00:36:08.100 energy for

00:36:08.680 transportation

00:36:09.220 but we've

00:36:10.820 been making

00:36:11.280 unbelievable

00:36:11.980 progress on

00:36:12.880 reducing the

00:36:13.940 emissions and

00:36:14.600 and I don't

00:36:16.280 want to I don't

00:36:17.020 want to ramble on

00:36:17.680 here but the

00:36:18.340 other thing

00:36:18.720 it's not

00:36:19.260 people are not

00:36:20.140 talking about

00:36:20.820 is the some

00:36:21.860 of the advances

00:36:22.300 on the consumption

00:36:23.080 side so I'll

00:36:24.540 make a little

00:36:25.060 bit of a bold

00:36:27.500 statement just

00:36:28.420 for effect here

00:36:29.240 but it's possible

00:36:30.400 that oil and gas

00:36:31.240 is closer to zero

00:36:32.120 emissions and

00:36:32.940 solar and wind

00:36:33.620 now I'll explain

00:36:34.820 that point because

00:36:35.600 it's a bit of a

00:36:36.200 bold statement

00:36:36.600 but the reason

00:36:37.800 for that is that

00:36:38.440 we're getting

00:36:38.860 close to being

00:36:39.720 able to capture

00:36:40.600 carbon we're

00:36:41.540 finding ways to

00:36:42.620 use CO2 as a

00:36:44.520 feedstock for

00:36:45.320 other products

00:36:45.940 so my company

00:36:49.120 and some other

00:36:50.000 companies are

00:36:50.540 getting close to

00:36:51.480 zero emissions

00:36:52.320 production so I

00:36:53.860 mean that's a

00:36:54.240 whole I've opened

00:36:54.760 up a whole can

00:36:55.220 of worms there

00:36:55.840 Andrew and I

00:36:56.400 don't want to

00:36:56.900 ramble on but

00:36:57.640 I think people

00:36:59.020 are not noticing

00:36:59.980 just how amazing

00:37:01.620 of solutions the

00:37:03.060 private sector is

00:37:03.960 coming up to

00:37:04.480 coming up with

00:37:05.640 and I'm getting

00:37:07.360 back to the

00:37:07.840 point of

00:37:08.140 ideology I

00:37:09.460 sometimes think

00:37:10.160 that the people

00:37:10.700 who are doing

00:37:11.100 this for

00:37:11.360 ideological reasons

00:37:12.400 only want

00:37:13.480 government solutions

00:37:14.320 and in fact are

00:37:15.600 unhappy with the

00:37:17.060 fact that the

00:37:17.540 private sector is

00:37:18.160 coming up with

00:37:18.640 solutions and

00:37:19.600 maybe even better

00:37:20.380 ones yeah because

00:37:21.300 I know that if I

00:37:22.100 were to bring up

00:37:23.100 the point that you

00:37:23.780 just raised about

00:37:24.780 some of these

00:37:25.240 innovations people

00:37:26.320 are going to

00:37:26.800 discount it and

00:37:27.480 not even want to

00:37:28.000 hear it because

00:37:28.460 oh it's coming

00:37:28.960 from an oil and

00:37:29.620 gas company and

00:37:30.800 I've already seen

00:37:31.740 just the comparisons

00:37:32.560 that people make

00:37:33.320 between oil and

00:37:34.000 gas companies and

00:37:34.840 and others just

00:37:35.720 these big evil

00:37:36.500 corporate overlords

00:37:37.580 on these but but

00:37:38.520 the reality is

00:37:39.680 private sector

00:37:40.660 solutions should be

00:37:41.680 encouraged because

00:37:42.480 the argument for

00:37:44.060 a government

00:37:44.520 response is only

00:37:45.540 if a response

00:37:46.280 can't come from

00:37:47.020 anywhere else

00:37:47.800 right well I

00:37:49.960 mean what you

00:37:51.260 know who's

00:37:52.400 shocked that that

00:37:53.460 the private sector

00:37:54.380 if properly

00:37:55.040 motivated and of

00:37:56.020 course that goes to

00:37:56.740 what you said some

00:37:57.720 of the opponents

00:37:58.440 say but if

00:37:59.340 properly motivated

00:38:00.160 who's shocked that

00:38:00.980 the that the

00:38:01.580 market and private

00:38:02.380 enterprise is

00:38:03.520 better at coming

00:38:04.160 up with technical

00:38:05.040 solutions and for

00:38:06.500 for problems than

00:38:07.940 the government is

00:38:08.580 like who's shocked

00:38:09.320 by that hopefully

00:38:10.140 almost no one

00:38:11.120 right

00:38:11.680 the question

00:38:12.440 comes down to

00:38:13.100 can you know

00:38:13.640 is is is the

00:38:14.740 private sector

00:38:15.260 actually properly

00:38:16.020 motivated and and

00:38:17.280 you know the the

00:38:18.240 people you refer to

00:38:19.060 are saying well

00:38:19.840 you know you guys

00:38:20.360 only care about

00:38:20.980 making profits so

00:38:21.920 why would you care

00:38:22.560 about the

00:38:22.840 environment but you

00:38:24.240 know I would make

00:38:24.820 two points there

00:38:25.560 one is that you

00:38:27.860 know people the

00:38:29.040 people that work in

00:38:29.700 our industry you

00:38:31.740 know live you

00:38:32.420 know there's I

00:38:32.940 think 800,000

00:38:33.960 people 800,000

00:38:35.420 families across the

00:38:36.320 country that that

00:38:37.300 rely on the oil and

00:38:38.620 gas industry either

00:38:39.480 for a direct job or

00:38:40.720 an indirect job and

00:38:42.580 you know these people

00:38:43.240 live across the country

00:38:44.080 they're people just

00:38:44.720 like you me people

00:38:47.000 listening to this show

00:38:47.940 they live in they live

00:38:48.860 in neighborhoods with

00:38:49.800 us so why would we

00:38:51.420 think those people

00:38:52.120 don't care about the

00:38:53.100 environment just as much

00:38:54.300 as you do and I mean

00:38:56.200 these people work in our

00:38:57.280 companies I know them of

00:38:58.480 course they do you know

00:39:00.220 they love to go hiking on

00:39:01.240 the weekends too so but

00:39:02.900 the other the other point

00:39:03.820 is is that it's I think

00:39:04.880 it's become quite clear and

00:39:06.140 I and I want to give

00:39:06.860 some credit to the

00:39:08.380 environmental movement

00:39:09.440 here and and and you

00:39:11.420 can distinguish in the

00:39:12.400 environmental movement

00:39:13.000 there's those people who

00:39:14.180 are you know I think

00:39:15.800 genuine and I think

00:39:16.660 there's those people who

00:39:17.600 are only caring about

00:39:18.920 ideology but but there's

00:39:20.400 been a lot of good

00:39:21.020 people in the environmental

00:39:21.660 movement who've made

00:39:22.380 the case for why we have

00:39:23.580 to care about this it

00:39:24.680 made the case for why

00:39:25.540 there has to be taxes and

00:39:26.920 regulations on some of

00:39:28.680 these issues industry in

00:39:30.640 the market are just

00:39:31.200 responding to those

00:39:31.980 things we're realizing

00:39:32.840 now if we want you know

00:39:33.680 if we want to get

00:39:34.280 investment if we want to

00:39:35.820 be profitable in a new

00:39:37.700 world of higher

00:39:38.400 regulation and taxes

00:39:39.380 well we've responded to

00:39:41.320 that I don't think

00:39:41.960 people are noticing just

00:39:44.120 how fast that innovation

00:39:45.900 is happening

00:39:46.400 Michael Binion the

00:39:47.620 executive director of

00:39:48.840 the modern miracle

00:39:49.780 network joins me

00:39:50.700 Michael always a

00:39:51.620 pleasure thanks for

00:39:52.260 coming on and shining

00:39:53.280 the light on this

00:39:54.060 no no great anytime

00:39:55.540 Andrew thank you for

00:39:56.280 thank you for having

00:39:56.960 me that was Michael

00:39:58.000 Binion of the modern

00:39:59.060 miracle network always a

00:40:00.540 pleasure to catch up

00:40:01.300 with Michael usually I

00:40:02.080 see him out west but

00:40:02.860 of course I'm you know

00:40:03.800 never getting to go

00:40:04.780 anywhere these days so

00:40:05.600 I haven't seen him in a

00:40:06.380 little while but I

00:40:07.420 appreciate his time

00:40:08.140 nonetheless that does it

00:40:09.400 for us for today we'll

00:40:10.520 be back in just a few

00:40:12.020 days with more of

00:40:12.940 Canada's most irreverent 0.98

00:40:14.080 talk show this is the

00:40:15.220 Andrew Lawton show on

00:40:16.100 true north thank you God

00:40:17.380 bless and good day

00:40:18.240 Canada thanks for

00:40:19.400 listening to the Andrew

00:40:20.280 Lawton show support the

00:40:21.620 program by donating to

00:40:22.720 true north at www.tnc.news

00:40:26.340 com Elias

00:40:31.740 thank you very much for

00:40:32.160 being in the

00:40:32.440 pandemic

00:40:32.540 I was going to go from

00:40:33.020 powerful

00:40:34.800 coast and me by the way

00:40:35.020 obviously we're going to

00:40:36.120 expanddd

00:40:40.980 or inspired the

00:40:41.180 20 м

00:40:44.800 please

00:40:45.860 meet each lady

00:40:46.540 immediately

00:40:47.320 for anyone

00:40:47.920 singles

00:40:48.580 drop

00:40:50.740 them

00:40:51.860 into

00:40:52.260 days

00:40:52.680 in

00:40:53.320 their

Juno News - February 02, 2021

Moving Goalposts

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