Juno News - February 02, 2021


Moving Goalposts


Episode Stats

Length

40 minutes

Words per Minute

180.90993

Word Count

7,400

Sentence Count

233


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:06.700 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.960 Coming up, the moving goalposts and the permanent lockdown,
00:00:16.500 Justin Trudeau's assault on free speech,
00:00:18.660 and who's standing up for Canadian jobs with Keystone?
00:00:23.360 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:26.920 Welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show, Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show,
00:00:33.560 here on True North.
00:00:34.780 From my house arrest to yours, welcome to the program.
00:00:38.640 It is great to be talking with you from my own little self-imposed quarantine,
00:00:42.960 not a government-approved hotel site by any stretch,
00:00:45.920 at least not for the time being.
00:00:47.620 But who knows, with the way things are going
00:00:49.260 and the way governments are ramping up their efforts,
00:00:51.460 maybe we'll all be put in these quarantine hotels or isolation hotels before long.
00:00:56.100 I want to talk about the moving goalposts,
00:00:59.180 which is a theme we've certainly addressed on the show in the past,
00:01:02.300 but one that is particularly relevant now.
00:01:05.380 We have seen over the last year,
00:01:08.080 it's been almost a year that we've been in the more rigorous lockdowns in Canada,
00:01:12.420 certainly in Ontario and most of the provinces actually.
00:01:15.200 They all kind of went down the road at the same time about last March.
00:01:18.740 So we've seen this for almost a year.
00:01:20.600 And it's been interesting to see how the government has moved the goalposts on us
00:01:25.600 and on itself time and time again.
00:01:27.720 Of course, we famously talked about Patti Hajdu's comment that
00:01:30.640 border closures don't work and travel restrictions don't work.
00:01:33.920 And then a few days later, we have, boom,
00:01:36.340 the border between Canada and the U.S. shut down.
00:01:39.720 And then we go through all of the steps that we're supposed to go through
00:01:42.940 with continuing increasing of the restrictions to mandatory masks,
00:01:49.100 to no more this, no more that.
00:01:51.140 And now here we are.
00:01:52.300 Cases finally start to go down after the second wave.
00:01:55.900 And yes, I know case counts are a little bit easily manipulated,
00:01:59.640 but nevertheless, it's the metric the government is using.
00:02:02.540 So we have cases start to go down just a little bit
00:02:05.240 and the government puts in more travel restrictions,
00:02:07.780 despite the fact that travel is responsible for about 2% of the total cases.
00:02:14.420 Travel has been a scapegoat,
00:02:16.760 not an actual cause of the volume of cases that we have seen.
00:02:22.420 And it's become very easy for politicians to look and say,
00:02:25.200 oh, well, international flights are coming in.
00:02:27.020 And I hear it from a lot of you who say,
00:02:28.920 well, you know, why are international flights coming in?
00:02:30.980 Well, the fact remains that there are a lot of Canadians that are abroad
00:02:33.940 or exempt travelers that are allowed to come into the country.
00:02:36.560 But the reality is that those are not where the problems lie.
00:02:41.720 And when all of the returning politicians were coming back
00:02:44.980 after their Christmas break in December,
00:02:47.300 and I said, yeah, the hypocrisy was the issue, not the actual travel.
00:02:50.700 But one point that I raised is that a lot of these destinations
00:02:53.660 that people are going to for sunny getaways,
00:02:56.340 like the Bahamas or Barbados or Mexico is a bit different.
00:03:00.180 If you look at the case counts in these places,
00:03:03.060 they're virtually non-existent.
00:03:05.060 A lot of these places have managed to nip it in the bud
00:03:07.540 and get their cases down to single or double digits a day
00:03:11.220 because they need to do that to get their tourism back.
00:03:14.460 So they say, if you want to come here, you have to get a test before you come.
00:03:18.380 Some places make you stay in quarantine for a few days while you get there.
00:03:21.900 And then after that, you can walk around doing whatever you want in sunny paradise.
00:03:26.140 So if you are a Canadian who goes down to the Bahamas, say, and you come back,
00:03:31.740 you're more of a risk to the Bahamas than you are from the Bahamas coming back home,
00:03:37.000 which is why travel is not the problem here.
00:03:39.920 But the federal government right now in Canada has to pretend that it's doing things.
00:03:44.820 They have to distract from all of the things they've gotten wrong.
00:03:47.780 They have to distract from the bungled vaccine rollout.
00:03:51.060 They have to distract from their inability to procure vaccines in a timely manner.
00:03:55.360 And what better way to do that than by pointing to airplanes and say,
00:03:58.000 okay, they're the problem.
00:03:59.700 So what's happened in the last few days,
00:04:01.620 Justin Trudeau has reached an agreement with the Canadian air carriers
00:04:04.400 to no longer service until the end of April,
00:04:07.620 sunny destinations in the Caribbean or in Mexico.
00:04:10.740 Anyone who is outside the country must come back
00:04:13.080 and stay in a government approved hotel.
00:04:16.380 Now, I've stayed at a few hotels.
00:04:18.320 Never once have I looked for one that was government approved,
00:04:20.640 but nevertheless, you have to stay in a government approved hotel
00:04:23.540 for $2,000 approximately for three days,
00:04:26.840 which includes the hotel bill, your meals, and your COVID-19 tests.
00:04:32.480 Because yes, you don't just need to have a negative test to get on a plane to Canada.
00:04:36.680 You also need to have a negative test when you land.
00:04:40.740 And we are in doing this, of course,
00:04:42.900 just duplicating the process that is irrelevant
00:04:45.120 because at the end of it, you still have to quarantine for 14 days.
00:04:48.400 So what's the point of having a negative test
00:04:52.440 that keeps you in a government approved hotel
00:04:55.280 only to then have to go into your own facility at home
00:04:58.740 or wherever you are and quarantine for another 14 days
00:05:01.700 if you've already tested negative?
00:05:03.740 So what we're doing here is we're adding duplicating layers
00:05:06.980 that are actually just making the initial layer look a lot thicker
00:05:11.780 without actually adding any additional measures
00:05:15.240 or certainly adding any additional public safety.
00:05:18.980 And oh, by the way, if you test positive when you're in the hotel,
00:05:21.780 you get sent to a government approved quarantine facility,
00:05:24.340 which is different than the hotel.
00:05:25.780 And we don't even know what or where these things are.
00:05:28.520 But the reason I talk about all of this is not because I miss travel.
00:05:32.000 It's not about that.
00:05:32.900 I do.
00:05:33.580 It is about the lack of evidence
00:05:35.820 and the lack of science driving decisions
00:05:38.180 that are a heck of a lot more disruptive
00:05:40.240 than they are beneficial to the people
00:05:42.940 that these things are supposed to protect.
00:05:44.980 And by the way, I mean,
00:05:45.880 the fear-mongering from the Liberals is certainly working.
00:05:48.540 One poll of Canadians said that Canadians overwhelmingly support these
00:05:53.320 and 87% of respondents,
00:05:55.920 now polling is a little bit tricky, I realize,
00:05:58.160 but 87% is decisive,
00:06:00.180 think the government should go further
00:06:01.920 by banning all international travel
00:06:04.440 until there are several consecutive days of reduced COVID-19 numbers.
00:06:08.200 Now, what this would effectively do
00:06:09.980 is strand Canadians who are abroad for whatever reason overseas.
00:06:15.680 So here's the thing.
00:06:17.000 Right now, who suffers from it?
00:06:18.880 Canadian Airlines.
00:06:19.820 If you want to go to the Bahamas,
00:06:21.540 you still can,
00:06:22.400 but you can't take Air Canada or WestJet.
00:06:24.460 You have to go through the US,
00:06:26.060 which ironically enough makes it more risky
00:06:28.280 because you've added another step into the process.
00:06:31.260 You've added another destination.
00:06:33.580 So you're still allowed to go.
00:06:35.520 Canadians are allowed to travel.
00:06:37.100 You're allowed to go abroad,
00:06:38.220 but the government is trying to make it so cost prohibitive
00:06:41.160 and so logistically challenging
00:06:43.120 that it is effectively banned
00:06:44.940 without actually being illegal,
00:06:47.040 without actually turning Canada into an open-air prison
00:06:49.740 where you can check out but never leave,
00:06:51.460 as the song Hotel California tells us.
00:06:54.780 So the reason this is so ridiculous
00:06:57.180 is because if you are super wealthy,
00:06:59.400 this doesn't actually matter to you.
00:07:01.160 If the two grand to stay in a hotel
00:07:03.000 for a couple of weeks is fine
00:07:04.580 and you can pay for the tests
00:07:06.380 and you know where you're going to get your pre-departure test,
00:07:09.080 your pre-arrival test,
00:07:10.220 your arrival test,
00:07:11.100 your post-arrival test,
00:07:12.380 and you can pay the 200 bucks a pop
00:07:14.120 plus whatever other charges come along,
00:07:16.380 it doesn't actually affect you.
00:07:18.300 But what if you're someone
00:07:19.140 who wants to visit a dying relative abroad?
00:07:22.060 What if you're someone who has a job
00:07:23.700 that requires you to go overseas
00:07:25.920 but isn't actually classed as essential
00:07:28.320 under the government's narrative?
00:07:30.000 All of a sudden,
00:07:31.960 you have all of these hurdles and roadblocks
00:07:34.000 that are not keeping you safe
00:07:35.560 nor are they keeping anyone else safe
00:07:37.380 and we're supposed to believe
00:07:38.680 it's for our protection.
00:07:41.180 And what we were told the whole way
00:07:43.160 is that this is all just going to go away
00:07:45.080 once there's a vaccine,
00:07:46.300 once there's a vaccine.
00:07:47.280 Now, setting aside for a moment
00:07:49.000 the fact that the vaccine
00:07:50.680 is not a given in Canada,
00:07:52.380 this metric they were giving us
00:07:53.980 about, oh, well,
00:07:54.520 we'll have everyone vaccinated
00:07:55.600 who wants to be by the end of September
00:07:57.140 is just nowhere near happening.
00:08:00.280 But more importantly,
00:08:01.540 even if we could get people vaccinated,
00:08:03.820 that isn't going to let us get out of this.
00:08:07.340 Take a look at this exchange
00:08:08.680 from the House of Commons yesterday.
00:08:10.460 Michelle Rempel-Garner,
00:08:11.760 a Conservative MP,
00:08:12.800 was asking Transport Minister Omar Al-Ghabra
00:08:16.340 and then later a follow-up question
00:08:18.180 to Health Minister Patty Hajdu
00:08:19.480 about vaccines
00:08:20.980 and about whether people
00:08:21.960 who are fully vaccinated
00:08:23.180 against COVID-19
00:08:24.360 will still have to do
00:08:25.700 the government quarantine,
00:08:26.880 this test, that test,
00:08:28.260 and then the 14-day.
00:08:29.660 Take a look.
00:08:30.260 The Liberals could have put in place
00:08:31.800 a system of rapid testing
00:08:33.180 at airports months ago,
00:08:34.660 but refused this science-based approach.
00:08:37.000 Canada is 2 million doses
00:08:38.600 short of vaccines this week.
00:08:40.860 Will those who are vaccinated
00:08:42.360 be exempt from the Liberals'
00:08:44.260 too late travel restrictions?
00:08:46.720 The Honourable Minister.
00:08:48.380 Mr. Speaker,
00:08:49.180 I want to thank my colleague
00:08:50.660 for her question.
00:08:52.440 As I stated earlier,
00:08:54.220 Canada today has one
00:08:55.720 of the strictest rules
00:08:57.500 in the world
00:08:58.320 for discretionary travel.
00:09:01.040 We have called a year ago
00:09:03.180 on all Canadians
00:09:04.120 to avoid non-essential travel.
00:09:07.180 We've implemented new measures
00:09:08.980 earlier in the year
00:09:10.000 to make sure that
00:09:10.940 all travellers are tested
00:09:12.500 prior to boarding the plane,
00:09:14.220 and now we're implementing
00:09:15.640 new measures.
00:09:17.260 There is no evidence.
00:09:18.540 We still don't have information
00:09:20.300 about the effect
00:09:22.140 of a vaccine
00:09:23.460 on transmissibility.
00:09:25.440 Therefore,
00:09:26.440 all Canadians
00:09:27.160 will be subjected
00:09:28.020 to these measures.
00:09:28.840 The Honourable Member
00:09:30.140 for Calgary-Nose Hill.
00:09:32.180 So now the Liberals
00:09:33.000 are saying that
00:09:33.740 even being vaccinated
00:09:34.900 doesn't guarantee
00:09:35.960 an end to restrictions?
00:09:37.620 Canadians have stayed at home.
00:09:39.040 They've washed their hands,
00:09:39.940 they've worn masks,
00:09:40.880 and they've sacrificed a lot.
00:09:42.940 With rapid tests
00:09:44.160 and vaccinations
00:09:44.940 available to the world,
00:09:46.360 but not to us,
00:09:47.520 Canadians shouldn't have
00:09:48.580 to accept more restrictions
00:09:50.180 without a clear end in sight,
00:09:52.340 and without that type
00:09:53.080 of a word salad
00:09:53.900 from the Minister.
00:09:54.660 How many Canadians
00:09:56.100 will have to be vaccinated
00:09:57.460 before travel restrictions
00:09:59.120 are eased?
00:10:00.560 The Honourable Minister.
00:10:02.820 Well, thank you very much,
00:10:04.020 Mr. Speaker,
00:10:05.300 and I will just say this.
00:10:07.760 The issue of vaccination
00:10:08.980 and travel is a live one.
00:10:10.720 I met with my G7 counterparts
00:10:12.400 last week to talk
00:10:13.840 about standardization
00:10:15.720 of travel,
00:10:17.680 international travel.
00:10:18.720 Of course,
00:10:19.480 my colleague is correct.
00:10:21.060 We know that vaccination
00:10:22.220 saves lives.
00:10:23.480 The science is still unclear yet
00:10:25.300 about what effect
00:10:26.580 it has on transmission.
00:10:28.260 That science is evolving,
00:10:29.580 and we will be sharing
00:10:31.060 the understandings
00:10:32.300 and knowledge of vaccination
00:10:33.420 as it becomes clear
00:10:34.720 with Canada and the world.
00:10:38.940 So again,
00:10:40.220 just to put this into perspective,
00:10:41.720 I'm laughing,
00:10:42.460 but inside I'm really crying.
00:10:44.000 The whole point of the vaccine
00:10:45.180 is so that we can be safe,
00:10:46.800 but even if you're vaccinated,
00:10:48.120 all of these other restrictions
00:10:49.180 you still have to go along with.
00:10:51.060 So again,
00:10:51.660 the moving goalposts,
00:10:52.900 as we've said time and time again,
00:10:54.680 it's not just about
00:10:55.580 social distancing
00:10:56.520 until we flatten the curve.
00:10:58.040 It's not just about masks
00:10:59.160 until we flatten the curve.
00:11:00.720 It's not just about restrictions
00:11:01.840 until there's a vaccine.
00:11:03.240 It is a permanent lockdown,
00:11:05.520 a permanent set of restrictions
00:11:06.940 that is rapidly becoming
00:11:09.060 the new normal.
00:11:10.280 I want to get back to travel,
00:11:12.000 but just for a moment,
00:11:12.940 let's talk about masks here
00:11:14.400 because we were getting mask mandates
00:11:16.820 between the so-called
00:11:18.460 first and second wave.
00:11:20.100 So a lot of the mandatory mask orders
00:11:21.860 that went in place
00:11:22.620 were actually when cases
00:11:24.160 were quite low
00:11:25.280 in the summer months.
00:11:27.280 And what was interesting about that
00:11:29.280 is that it seemed at the time
00:11:31.220 like it wasn't doing that much.
00:11:32.720 And remember,
00:11:33.420 the second wave came about,
00:11:35.300 well,
00:11:35.580 we all had mandatory masks
00:11:37.340 in most jurisdictions in Canada.
00:11:39.560 We'll take a look at this CBC story.
00:11:41.620 Now,
00:11:41.840 we talked last week
00:11:43.100 about how double masking
00:11:44.260 is the new thing.
00:11:45.140 The CDC is telling everyone
00:11:46.500 to double mask
00:11:47.360 and then it'll be triple mask
00:11:48.880 and eventually we'll just,
00:11:49.860 you know,
00:11:50.040 keep layering on masks.
00:11:52.100 It'll be like when Joey decided
00:11:53.860 to put on Chandler's clothes
00:11:55.100 on Friends.
00:11:55.700 You just keep putting them on
00:11:56.820 until you run out of things to do.
00:12:05.440 Okay, buddy boy,
00:12:06.480 here it is.
00:12:08.140 You hide my clothes,
00:12:09.720 I'm wearing everything you own.
00:12:11.280 Oh my God.
00:12:15.440 That is so not the opposite
00:12:16.960 of taking somebody's underwear.
00:12:19.240 Look at me.
00:12:20.220 I'm Chandler.
00:12:21.220 Could I be wearing any more clothes?
00:12:24.620 But this report in CBC says
00:12:26.700 we'll wear masks
00:12:27.780 after the pandemic,
00:12:29.200 researchers predict,
00:12:30.460 and they're trying to make them better.
00:12:32.720 And this is a McMaster University
00:12:35.260 driven discussion here
00:12:36.680 where they're talking about
00:12:37.760 how they can develop
00:12:39.120 and ramp up and soup up PPE
00:12:41.160 so that people can wear them.
00:12:43.040 While many Canadians
00:12:44.200 may be longing for the day
00:12:45.820 when masks are no longer required,
00:12:47.600 teams of researchers across Canada
00:12:49.440 are working on creating
00:12:50.700 the next generation of masks
00:12:52.240 and personal protective equipment
00:12:54.100 for both healthcare workers
00:12:55.700 and the public.
00:12:57.160 Their hope is that
00:12:57.960 if they make masks
00:12:59.080 and other PPE more comfortable,
00:13:01.040 safer,
00:13:01.560 or easier to breathe in,
00:13:03.100 there's a higher chance
00:13:04.220 the general public
00:13:05.020 will use some protective gear
00:13:06.620 after the pandemic.
00:13:07.880 Now, this is not a government edict.
00:13:10.180 This is just coming from researchers.
00:13:12.060 But just take a look
00:13:13.260 at what they're sampling out here.
00:13:14.860 Is this how you want to walk around
00:13:16.220 the full head face shield with filter
00:13:18.360 or the full head face shield
00:13:20.020 with no filter
00:13:20.740 or even just the normal face shield?
00:13:23.040 Is that normal?
00:13:24.660 Is that something
00:13:25.460 that we want to have as our life?
00:13:27.960 Is that how we want to look?
00:13:30.440 I said a couple of months ago
00:13:32.220 when I was scrolling through
00:13:33.500 some TV channel guide
00:13:35.780 or whatever it was,
00:13:36.560 and I saw a trailer for some show
00:13:38.100 and it was a contemporary legal drama,
00:13:40.580 I think,
00:13:40.940 and on the show,
00:13:41.780 everyone was wearing masks.
00:13:42.980 So they have normalized COVID-19
00:13:45.640 in the show.
00:13:46.740 They've immortalized it as well
00:13:48.160 where that is just how people are.
00:13:50.060 It wasn't a show about COVID,
00:13:51.160 but it was just an expectation
00:13:53.020 that, oh yeah,
00:13:53.740 this is just how the world is.
00:13:56.160 And there's a very dangerous
00:13:58.300 aspect of that.
00:14:00.080 If we accept that
00:14:01.400 this is the way the world is now,
00:14:02.980 we lose the ability
00:14:04.560 and the willingness
00:14:05.340 to make the world better than that.
00:14:08.440 And a lot of people are going to say,
00:14:09.700 oh, well, it's just a mask.
00:14:10.540 What are you complaining about?
00:14:11.460 It's not just a mask though.
00:14:13.520 And that's the problem here.
00:14:14.980 It's not just a mask
00:14:16.000 because if we say that,
00:14:17.160 well, even without the pandemic,
00:14:18.380 we should keep wearing masks,
00:14:19.680 then we're also going to be saying
00:14:21.460 that about every other restriction in place.
00:14:24.080 Oh, we're also going to have
00:14:25.160 to keep six feet away
00:14:26.140 from each other at concerts.
00:14:27.700 Oh, we're also going to have
00:14:28.700 to make sure
00:14:29.240 that we can ever travel internationally.
00:14:31.240 Oh, we're also going to make sure
00:14:32.360 that we have to have
00:14:33.080 quarantine in government facilities.
00:14:35.280 Oh, we're just going to have to do this.
00:14:36.780 And all of these things
00:14:38.020 that are positioned
00:14:39.000 and presented to us
00:14:40.180 as temporary measures
00:14:41.900 become normalized
00:14:43.780 and become de facto
00:14:45.580 permanent solutions
00:14:47.700 or quote unquote solutions,
00:14:49.860 I guess,
00:14:50.720 when they are not achieving
00:14:52.620 the desired result.
00:14:54.840 So the answer to this
00:14:56.700 is not that we ignore everything.
00:14:59.200 It's that we do what people like me
00:15:01.320 have been calling for
00:15:02.460 since the very beginning of this,
00:15:04.160 which is focus on the numbers,
00:15:05.480 focus on the evidence,
00:15:07.260 allow places to reopen safely,
00:15:09.600 but don't put all of these restrictions
00:15:11.800 in place to make it
00:15:13.320 so that it is effectively illegal
00:15:15.220 to do something
00:15:15.940 that is actually legal to do.
00:15:17.480 In this case,
00:15:18.140 we go back to the international travel.
00:15:20.900 And they're already talking about
00:15:22.540 in this one story,
00:15:23.480 looking at potentially
00:15:24.680 domestic restrictions on travel,
00:15:27.080 where you might need
00:15:27.760 a negative COVID test
00:15:28.860 if you want to fly
00:15:29.940 from Toronto to Montreal.
00:15:33.220 So making testing
00:15:34.700 a part of air travel,
00:15:35.860 which again is going to
00:15:36.920 for a lot of people
00:15:37.720 make it so prohibitive
00:15:38.780 or so obnoxious
00:15:39.640 to travel by air
00:15:40.460 that they won't do it at all.
00:15:42.600 And what are the effects of that?
00:15:44.120 Well, for starters,
00:15:44.880 Canadians become very cooped up
00:15:46.360 and we have the mental illness challenges
00:15:48.380 and just general well-being challenges
00:15:50.500 that that brings.
00:15:51.660 It also decimates
00:15:52.900 the airline industry right now,
00:15:54.400 which is hanging on by a thread.
00:15:56.020 I mean, I was an Air Canada stockholder,
00:15:58.700 so you can imagine
00:15:59.900 that I'm partially self-interested
00:16:01.700 when I talk about this.
00:16:02.980 But the reality is
00:16:04.220 that if an airline exists right now
00:16:07.060 and they're no longer able
00:16:08.320 to sell international travel
00:16:09.860 for whatever reason,
00:16:11.240 then they can at least still hope
00:16:13.720 that people might be moving around
00:16:15.180 in the country.
00:16:16.440 Hey, why don't you travel to Banff?
00:16:18.000 Hey, why don't you travel
00:16:18.820 to the Laurentians?
00:16:19.720 Hey, why don't you see the West Coast?
00:16:21.400 Why don't, well, Atlantic Canada,
00:16:22.700 you can't really go to now.
00:16:23.740 But for an airline to have to see
00:16:26.740 a talk about domestic restrictions,
00:16:29.960 just no one's going to move anywhere.
00:16:32.620 No one's going to move
00:16:33.580 around the country anymore.
00:16:34.800 And the whole point is
00:16:35.800 that we're supposed to be
00:16:36.620 celebrating this country.
00:16:37.800 We're supposed to be proud of the country,
00:16:39.520 but you can't see it.
00:16:40.900 You can't go anywhere.
00:16:41.900 And if you are going somewhere,
00:16:43.160 all of these restrictions
00:16:44.300 make it so arduous to do anything
00:16:46.040 that a lot of people
00:16:47.040 are just going to not do them
00:16:48.560 in the first place.
00:16:50.200 So if the vaccine doesn't protect us,
00:16:52.840 because that was what Omar Al-Ghabra said.
00:16:54.460 We don't yet know
00:16:55.340 if the vaccine prevents you
00:16:57.160 from getting or contracting COVID-19.
00:17:00.360 Well, I have questions about that.
00:17:05.800 What's the point of the test?
00:17:07.440 What's the point of the trials?
00:17:09.340 What's the point of the vaccine?
00:17:11.420 If the vaccine isn't our hope,
00:17:13.040 what's the next frontier?
00:17:14.000 So this is now going down this road
00:17:18.500 where we are seeing
00:17:19.720 that control rather than public health
00:17:22.480 continues to be the focus
00:17:24.580 of a lot of these edicts.
00:17:26.620 And this has been true in other cases.
00:17:28.560 Look at, for example,
00:17:29.520 the double standards
00:17:30.380 in which protests are allowed
00:17:32.140 and which protests aren't.
00:17:33.660 But this is only going to get worse.
00:17:37.040 And when we are faced
00:17:38.500 with this question of,
00:17:39.540 hey, do we accept
00:17:40.400 that this is the new normal?
00:17:42.100 Permanent masks,
00:17:43.120 permanent travel restrictions,
00:17:44.740 permanent lockdowns,
00:17:45.860 and permanent measures
00:17:47.220 that are de facto lockdowns.
00:17:49.140 Like social distancing, for example.
00:17:51.420 Sure, you can have a grocery store
00:17:52.860 where everyone has to be
00:17:53.740 six feet apart from each other,
00:17:55.220 but restaurants cannot survive
00:17:56.880 with spaced out tables.
00:17:58.520 A concert could not be profitable
00:18:00.340 with spaced out audiences.
00:18:02.340 So a lot of these things
00:18:03.260 would actually decimate various sectors
00:18:06.440 if they were to ever reopen
00:18:08.360 or basically prevent them
00:18:09.520 from ever being able to reopen.
00:18:11.000 Yeah, I mean,
00:18:11.800 the whole bubble approach to concerts
00:18:13.380 just isn't going to happen
00:18:14.660 and certainly isn't financially viable.
00:18:16.640 I mean, it might be good now
00:18:17.520 when people are just desperate
00:18:18.420 for something to do.
00:18:19.760 But I say again,
00:18:20.880 and this is very important,
00:18:22.500 this cannot be a new normal.
00:18:25.880 This is not the way life is supposed to be.
00:18:28.720 And if it is,
00:18:29.460 the lawmakers who have been
00:18:30.620 pushing us into this new normal
00:18:32.120 have to own up to the fact
00:18:33.600 that they were being dishonest
00:18:34.940 when they set all of these measures out
00:18:37.060 that would allow us
00:18:38.080 to get back to the old normal.
00:18:39.380 If you're going to take
00:18:40.340 the old normal away from us,
00:18:41.560 just say it outright,
00:18:42.740 say it clearly.
00:18:43.720 We'll be back in a moment
00:18:44.720 with more of The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:18:46.300 Stay tuned.
00:18:48.940 You're tuned in
00:18:50.060 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:18:54.700 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:18:56.920 We've talked at great length
00:18:58.400 on the program
00:18:59.020 about the Liberal government's
00:19:00.560 attempts to regulate online content,
00:19:03.900 the things you or I
00:19:05.040 or any Canadian can post online
00:19:07.160 under the auspices of curbing online hate.
00:19:10.540 Now, I covered back in Ottawa,
00:19:12.280 I think it would have been in 2019,
00:19:14.260 the hearings that the Justice Committee held,
00:19:16.500 which ultimately ended
00:19:17.780 with a recommendation to Parliament
00:19:19.420 shortly before the 2019 election
00:19:21.440 that a law be enacted
00:19:23.440 that take this seriously,
00:19:24.860 that actually start regulating
00:19:26.220 what content people can put online
00:19:28.500 by regulating the companies
00:19:30.500 like Facebook and Twitter and Google
00:19:32.560 who allow people to post things online.
00:19:35.280 Now, this is not about big tech censorship here
00:19:37.940 because this is now government-empowered
00:19:40.300 and government-endorsed tech censorship.
00:19:43.040 So all of a sudden,
00:19:43.860 if Facebook or Twitter
00:19:44.860 delete something that you wrote
00:19:46.560 or suspends your account,
00:19:47.920 they could be doing so
00:19:48.960 because they actually are worried
00:19:50.360 that the government will find them
00:19:51.840 if they don't.
00:19:53.100 So this is actually giving
00:19:54.300 more of an excuse
00:19:55.840 for companies like these tech giants
00:19:57.820 to censor you
00:19:58.580 rather than less of one.
00:20:00.220 It's not protecting free speech at all.
00:20:02.500 But the whole point of this is
00:20:03.780 we have not yet seen until now
00:20:05.960 a definition of how the government
00:20:08.420 is going to view hate
00:20:09.620 or even what the mechanisms
00:20:11.480 are going to be in this.
00:20:13.560 In an interview with La Presse,
00:20:15.180 the Heritage Minister,
00:20:16.340 Stephen Gilbeau,
00:20:17.180 who's responsible for advancing
00:20:18.620 this legislation,
00:20:20.040 gave us more detail
00:20:21.320 than he's given us to date.
00:20:23.020 And everything I've said
00:20:24.460 about why this is so dangerous
00:20:26.020 has been vindicated
00:20:27.860 by this interview.
00:20:29.560 I'm going to read
00:20:30.160 a couple of sections of it
00:20:31.340 for you here.
00:20:31.940 One in particular,
00:20:33.860 Stephen Gilbeau says
00:20:34.960 that companies will be fined
00:20:36.260 tens of millions of dollars
00:20:37.600 if they don't.
00:20:38.400 So if they don't go along
00:20:39.700 with what the government's
00:20:40.460 telling them to do.
00:20:41.360 So as I said,
00:20:42.080 more of an incentive
00:20:42.860 to play ball
00:20:44.100 with however the government
00:20:44.940 defines it.
00:20:45.980 But what he tells La Presse
00:20:47.340 is that the definition
00:20:48.340 of hate speech
00:20:49.160 is said to be taken
00:20:50.540 from the Watcott decision
00:20:52.080 of the Supreme Court of Canada.
00:20:55.060 Now, I don't want to go through
00:20:56.140 the whole litany
00:20:57.440 of evidence
00:20:58.580 that went into
00:20:59.140 the Watcott decision,
00:21:00.100 but it was a very significant one
00:21:01.700 between Bill Watcott
00:21:03.400 and the Saskatchewan
00:21:04.560 Human Rights Commission
00:21:05.480 which ended up going
00:21:06.780 to the Supreme Court of Canada.
00:21:08.740 The decision,
00:21:09.760 which was unanimous
00:21:10.760 if memory serves,
00:21:12.000 was very dangerous
00:21:13.240 because it focused
00:21:14.440 not on free speech
00:21:15.640 but on the idea of harm
00:21:17.640 and the harm
00:21:18.900 that speech can cause
00:21:20.280 but not even harm
00:21:21.640 that needs to be proven.
00:21:23.240 One section of the decision
00:21:24.940 in particular stands out.
00:21:26.680 The difficulty
00:21:27.660 of establishing causality
00:21:29.600 and the seriousness
00:21:30.780 of the harm
00:21:31.600 to vulnerable groups
00:21:32.720 justifies the imposition
00:21:34.460 of preventative measures
00:21:35.700 that do not require
00:21:37.120 proof of actual harm.
00:21:39.480 The discriminatory effects
00:21:40.740 of hate speech
00:21:41.360 are part of the everyday knowledge
00:21:42.860 and experience of Canadians.
00:21:44.740 As such,
00:21:45.460 the legislature is entitled
00:21:46.640 to a reasonable apprehension
00:21:48.540 of societal harm
00:21:50.100 as a result of hate speech.
00:21:51.780 The lack of defenses
00:21:52.880 is not fatal
00:21:53.920 to the constitutionality
00:21:55.540 of the provision.
00:21:56.760 Truthful statements
00:21:57.920 can be presented
00:21:59.060 in a manner
00:21:59.800 that would meet
00:22:00.780 the definition
00:22:01.460 of hate speech
00:22:02.280 and not all truthful statements
00:22:04.500 must be free
00:22:05.540 from restriction.
00:22:07.160 Allowing the dissemination
00:22:08.500 of hate speech
00:22:09.200 to be excused
00:22:10.100 by a sincerely held belief
00:22:12.240 would provide
00:22:13.220 an absolute defense
00:22:14.360 and would gut
00:22:15.120 the prohibition
00:22:16.060 of effectiveness.
00:22:17.640 The benefits
00:22:18.340 of the suppression
00:22:19.300 of hate speech
00:22:20.000 and its harmful effects
00:22:21.100 outweigh
00:22:22.000 the detrimental effects
00:22:23.740 of restricting expression
00:22:25.200 which by its nature
00:22:26.580 does little
00:22:27.600 to promote
00:22:28.160 the values
00:22:28.700 underlying freedom
00:22:29.900 of expression.
00:22:31.680 The protection
00:22:32.240 of vulnerable groups
00:22:33.240 from the harmful effect
00:22:34.280 emanating from hate speech
00:22:35.860 is of such importance
00:22:36.980 as to justify
00:22:38.160 the minimal
00:22:38.820 infringement
00:22:39.780 of expression.
00:22:41.120 Now,
00:22:41.540 the backstory of this,
00:22:42.780 the context of this
00:22:43.760 is that Bill Wadcott
00:22:44.680 was using his right
00:22:45.860 to free speech
00:22:46.500 to speak out
00:22:47.400 against homosexuality
00:22:48.620 from the basis
00:22:49.460 of his theological beliefs,
00:22:51.680 his religious beliefs.
00:22:53.040 And again,
00:22:53.620 the whole point
00:22:54.200 of this decision though
00:22:55.080 is not about
00:22:55.580 the individual case,
00:22:57.120 it's about now
00:22:57.960 what's being extrapolated
00:22:59.160 to everything.
00:23:00.180 Whereas a truthful statement
00:23:01.680 could be hateful,
00:23:03.000 belief in what you say
00:23:04.300 could still be hateful,
00:23:05.600 and this is something
00:23:06.600 that we're supposed
00:23:07.280 to accept
00:23:07.900 because even if you
00:23:09.120 haven't proven actual harm,
00:23:11.000 the harmful effects
00:23:11.980 to society
00:23:12.640 in the grand abstract sense
00:23:14.440 outweigh the harmful effects
00:23:16.140 of censoring someone.
00:23:17.340 So what the liberal government
00:23:19.700 is using
00:23:20.440 is a Supreme Court decision
00:23:22.380 that has no respect
00:23:23.720 for free speech
00:23:24.640 as its basis
00:23:25.780 for a law
00:23:26.500 that is going to curb
00:23:27.520 online content
00:23:28.580 and regulate social media
00:23:30.260 companies into compliance.
00:23:32.680 Stephen Gobeau says
00:23:33.720 that companies
00:23:34.220 can't self-regulate.
00:23:35.300 He said they're never
00:23:35.780 going to do this
00:23:36.300 on their own
00:23:36.760 so the government
00:23:37.580 needs to get involved.
00:23:39.860 But what they're doing
00:23:40.800 is shoehorning this in
00:23:42.480 because they know
00:23:43.640 two things.
00:23:44.340 Number one,
00:23:44.820 they know that there
00:23:45.440 is an appetite
00:23:46.080 after the Capitol Hill assault
00:23:48.120 and Stephen Gobeau
00:23:48.880 admits as much
00:23:49.700 to justify going
00:23:50.960 after social media companies
00:23:52.440 but beyond that
00:23:53.880 that there is also
00:23:54.900 this possibility
00:23:56.460 he seems to indicate
00:23:57.480 that there could be
00:23:58.100 an election on the horizon
00:23:59.180 so they're going to put
00:24:00.100 this through very quickly
00:24:01.040 just in case
00:24:02.000 we go to the polls
00:24:03.280 this year
00:24:03.940 in the coming months.
00:24:06.000 But they're talking
00:24:07.300 about now
00:24:07.960 using a Supreme Court
00:24:09.480 decision
00:24:09.960 that is by its nature
00:24:12.060 placing free speech
00:24:14.120 at a lower level
00:24:15.360 than protecting society
00:24:16.960 from this vague sense
00:24:18.480 of harm.
00:24:19.600 Not protecting individuals
00:24:20.680 from harm
00:24:21.240 but protecting society
00:24:22.840 from harm
00:24:23.440 and we're supposed
00:24:24.440 to think that the government
00:24:25.460 actually cares
00:24:26.360 about free speech?
00:24:27.820 Give me a break.
00:24:29.060 We'll be back in a moment
00:24:29.900 with more of
00:24:30.540 The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:24:31.480 Stay tuned.
00:24:33.140 You're tuned in
00:24:34.380 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:24:40.900 Welcome back
00:24:41.860 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:24:43.380 So Justin Trudeau
00:24:44.760 and Vice President
00:24:45.640 Kamala Harris
00:24:46.480 yesterday had
00:24:47.320 their first official conversation.
00:24:49.200 They spoke about
00:24:50.320 diversity and inclusion.
00:24:52.040 They spoke about
00:24:52.740 climate change.
00:24:53.640 They spoke about
00:24:54.380 all sorts of things
00:24:55.580 even online hate
00:24:56.600 but not
00:24:57.180 the giant
00:24:58.320 cancellation
00:24:59.240 of the Keystone XL pipeline
00:25:01.500 which is jeopardizing jobs
00:25:03.020 in both of the leaders' countries
00:25:04.780 and costing billions of dollars.
00:25:07.300 The Keystone XL pipeline
00:25:08.560 apparently
00:25:09.000 no longer a priority
00:25:10.500 which makes me wonder
00:25:11.820 who is speaking up
00:25:13.200 for the Alberta jobs
00:25:14.640 the Saskatchewan jobs
00:25:15.820 the effect
00:25:16.640 of the Canadian economy.
00:25:18.080 Very few people
00:25:18.900 at the federal level.
00:25:20.300 One man who has always
00:25:21.400 spoken up about
00:25:22.500 these things
00:25:23.040 and the importance
00:25:23.620 of the Canadian energy sector
00:25:25.000 is Michael Binion
00:25:26.240 the Executive Director
00:25:27.480 of the Modern Miracle Network
00:25:28.900 who joins me now.
00:25:30.360 Michael, good to talk to you.
00:25:31.300 Thanks for coming on today.
00:25:32.900 Oh, it's my pleasure Andrew.
00:25:34.120 You know, one of the things
00:25:35.300 that I find to be
00:25:36.080 the most upsetting
00:25:36.900 about this
00:25:37.480 is that we saw
00:25:38.520 the federal government
00:25:39.380 prepare to move mountains
00:25:40.660 when Quebec jobs
00:25:41.860 were in jeopardy
00:25:42.620 with SNC-Lavalin
00:25:43.620 a couple of years ago
00:25:44.920 but when we talk
00:25:45.960 about the oil sector
00:25:47.020 which is not just Alberta
00:25:48.140 but it is a national sector
00:25:49.880 very few people advocating
00:25:51.960 for Canadian jobs
00:25:53.340 in this area.
00:25:55.200 Yes.
00:25:55.980 Yeah, I mean
00:25:56.860 of course we do have
00:25:58.620 a government in Alberta
00:25:59.480 that does advocate
00:26:00.280 for that
00:26:00.960 and others
00:26:02.480 across the country
00:26:03.780 but certainly
00:26:05.780 our federal government
00:26:06.820 is a
00:26:08.320 you know
00:26:08.860 I think we've heard
00:26:09.400 the Prime Minister
00:26:09.960 talk about
00:26:10.680 the Great Reset
00:26:11.620 and I noticed
00:26:13.320 in the readout
00:26:13.960 from the
00:26:14.420 or from the summary
00:26:15.520 of the conversation
00:26:16.220 with the Vice President
00:26:17.080 that they explicitly
00:26:18.060 talked about
00:26:18.720 Build Back Better
00:26:19.320 so you know
00:26:20.300 both Build Back Better
00:26:21.840 and Great Reset
00:26:22.740 slogans
00:26:23.660 include a
00:26:24.800 you know
00:26:25.720 include a
00:26:26.880 you know
00:26:27.300 leave it in the ground
00:26:28.100 component
00:26:28.580 and switching to
00:26:30.100 other forms of energy.
00:26:31.380 One thing that I find
00:26:33.580 just the most bizarre
00:26:34.480 about the Keystone
00:26:35.520 cancellation
00:26:36.040 which was done
00:26:37.280 by executive order
00:26:38.320 from Joe Biden
00:26:39.280 on his first day
00:26:40.120 in office as president
00:26:41.340 is that
00:26:41.900 this wasn't actually
00:26:43.440 about some idea
00:26:45.540 some project
00:26:46.460 that was still stuck
00:26:47.420 in R&D
00:26:47.980 this was
00:26:48.440 construction already began
00:26:50.160 and the cross-border section
00:26:52.260 which is arguably
00:26:52.880 the most contentious
00:26:53.740 section of the pipeline
00:26:54.640 literally in the ground.
00:26:57.540 Yeah
00:26:58.080 you know
00:26:58.760 the one thing
00:26:59.960 and of course
00:27:00.380 we haven't seen
00:27:01.540 from the Prime Minister
00:27:03.500 bringing up
00:27:05.260 either the legal
00:27:07.200 side of this
00:27:08.140 which is
00:27:08.780 you know
00:27:09.160 there was an
00:27:09.760 approval given
00:27:11.540 there was a permit
00:27:12.220 and people
00:27:12.960 in good faith
00:27:13.760 on both sides
00:27:14.420 of the borders
00:27:14.740 the Canadian company
00:27:16.000 in particular
00:27:16.420 TC Energy
00:27:17.040 and the government
00:27:18.320 of Alberta
00:27:18.720 you know
00:27:19.320 all relied on
00:27:20.200 the agreement
00:27:21.200 of the US government
00:27:22.980 so there's that one side
00:27:24.600 the other thing
00:27:25.140 we haven't seen
00:27:25.740 from the Prime Minister
00:27:26.580 is a defense
00:27:27.780 of our environmental record
00:27:29.060 I mean a lot
00:27:30.080 has changed
00:27:31.340 since the Vice President
00:27:33.380 or since the President
00:27:34.500 was last Vice President
00:27:35.580 and last in office
00:27:36.320 I mean that was
00:27:36.880 that was
00:27:37.600 you know
00:27:38.480 four years ago plus
00:27:39.920 and it's incredible
00:27:41.500 the environmental
00:27:42.980 progress
00:27:44.180 that's been made
00:27:44.840 you know
00:27:45.120 on that pipeline
00:27:45.780 in particular
00:27:46.300 in the industry
00:27:46.980 in general
00:27:47.620 and our Prime Minister
00:27:49.120 as I said
00:27:49.820 didn't speak up
00:27:50.560 for us on the
00:27:51.120 just a second
00:27:51.820 there was an agreement
00:27:52.600 here
00:27:53.020 and how can you
00:27:53.920 cancel it
00:27:54.500 not just that
00:27:56.160 there was an agreement
00:27:56.640 we've already
00:27:57.360 put billions of dollars
00:27:58.720 into construction
00:27:59.580 under that agreement
00:28:00.440 how can you do that
00:28:01.740 just under a rule of law
00:28:03.220 and rule of international law
00:28:04.660 you know
00:28:05.440 our NAFTA agreements
00:28:07.280 our former NAFTA agreements
00:28:08.320 I think still apply
00:28:09.160 to some of this
00:28:09.780 and on the other side
00:28:12.120 just a second
00:28:12.820 why would you want to do it
00:28:13.960 we've got best in the world
00:28:15.520 environmental performance here
00:28:16.760 yeah
00:28:18.220 and that's
00:28:18.800 I think the most
00:28:19.460 disingenuous part of this
00:28:20.740 is that the
00:28:21.480 narrative that's been
00:28:22.520 put forward
00:28:23.040 by the Biden administration
00:28:24.300 and by a lot of the people
00:28:25.300 that have been
00:28:25.840 very anti-pipeline
00:28:27.360 is that
00:28:27.940 you get pipelines
00:28:29.140 or you get
00:28:29.960 environmental policy
00:28:31.140 and that the two
00:28:31.800 are inherently
00:28:32.580 contradictory
00:28:33.260 which I've never
00:28:34.620 quite understood
00:28:35.420 because ending a pipeline
00:28:37.240 does not reduce
00:28:38.100 demand on oil
00:28:39.140 it just reduces supply
00:28:40.760 but the supply
00:28:41.800 has got to get there
00:28:42.580 some other way
00:28:43.240 so you see tankers
00:28:44.420 you see rail
00:28:45.180 you see other means
00:28:46.400 of transporting oil
00:28:47.440 that are less
00:28:48.220 environmentally sound
00:28:49.460 than a pipeline
00:28:50.600 this is
00:28:53.040 so we know
00:28:54.140 there's more to
00:28:55.040 the motivations
00:28:56.160 of people
00:28:56.920 when you do see
00:28:59.060 best in the world
00:29:00.160 environmental performance
00:29:01.440 incredible progress
00:29:04.060 on emissions intensity
00:29:05.280 a pipeline
00:29:06.600 the first pipeline
00:29:07.620 I think that was going
00:29:08.220 to use 100%
00:29:09.140 renewable energy
00:29:09.920 to run the pipeline
00:29:11.200 I mean
00:29:11.780 this would have been
00:29:13.540 a world leading
00:29:16.160 example of
00:29:17.260 low emissions pipeline
00:29:18.560 I mean
00:29:19.480 if people really
00:29:21.900 did care
00:29:22.740 about
00:29:23.600 transitioning
00:29:24.820 our energy
00:29:25.560 systems
00:29:26.180 globally
00:29:26.780 to something
00:29:27.940 better in the future
00:29:28.700 they would want that
00:29:30.640 they would be
00:29:31.300 celebrating
00:29:32.380 what Canadians
00:29:33.380 are doing
00:29:34.080 as best in the world
00:29:35.520 environmental performance
00:29:36.640 reducing emissions
00:29:37.780 and not taking
00:29:40.380 the best in the world
00:29:41.220 off the market
00:29:41.960 only so the worst
00:29:43.200 in the world
00:29:43.540 can sell more
00:29:44.320 and the net effect
00:29:45.440 can only be
00:29:46.540 more emissions
00:29:47.100 so how can they
00:29:48.200 where's the logic
00:29:50.300 if we're doing this
00:29:51.340 to reduce
00:29:52.680 environmental impacts
00:29:53.640 but the impact
00:29:55.040 of this is going
00:29:55.560 to actually be
00:29:56.240 increased global
00:29:57.060 environmental impacts
00:29:59.220 yeah and I guess
00:30:00.600 that's where
00:30:01.220 even the narrative
00:30:02.440 that they put forward
00:30:03.480 as being the
00:30:04.060 justification for this
00:30:05.180 doesn't really hold water
00:30:06.500 but at the very least
00:30:07.920 we're talking about
00:30:09.080 a level of
00:30:10.260 employment
00:30:11.100 that is desperately
00:30:12.360 needed right now
00:30:13.280 I mean this is now
00:30:14.300 a government signing
00:30:15.180 a death warrant
00:30:15.820 for jobs
00:30:16.420 at a time
00:30:17.200 when private sector
00:30:17.980 jobs are already
00:30:18.760 facing immense strain
00:30:19.840 because of the
00:30:20.460 COVID pandemic
00:30:21.340 yeah and I
00:30:24.920 and I think we see
00:30:25.800 this from the
00:30:26.920 Trudeau government
00:30:27.680 too
00:30:28.120 I really had thought
00:30:30.380 when the
00:30:30.760 you know
00:30:31.360 with the pandemic
00:30:32.040 crisis
00:30:32.640 which has affected
00:30:33.880 all of us so much
00:30:34.720 right
00:30:34.920 we would see
00:30:37.560 a return to
00:30:38.380 pragmatism
00:30:39.080 what's the
00:30:40.460 what's the best
00:30:41.700 way to solve
00:30:42.700 the you know
00:30:43.600 the pandemic
00:30:44.440 crisis in the
00:30:45.240 short term
00:30:45.680 but also to
00:30:46.600 help people
00:30:47.480 get back to
00:30:48.200 work
00:30:48.420 I mean
00:30:48.640 this is
00:30:49.360 you know
00:30:49.900 families across
00:30:50.760 across the
00:30:51.440 country
00:30:51.720 who've
00:30:52.160 who've been
00:30:52.900 who've been
00:30:53.340 hurt
00:30:53.540 and many of
00:30:54.400 them
00:30:54.560 many of them
00:30:55.220 losing life
00:30:56.100 savings etc
00:30:56.620 so let's
00:30:57.840 let's how do we
00:30:58.840 get them back
00:30:59.360 to work
00:30:59.740 and instead of
00:31:00.800 a return to
00:31:01.420 pragmatism
00:31:01.980 it seemed to be
00:31:03.080 what a great
00:31:03.700 opportunity to
00:31:04.360 double down
00:31:04.920 on ideology
00:31:06.240 and what a
00:31:07.620 great opportunity
00:31:08.120 for us to
00:31:08.680 convince people
00:31:09.380 to
00:31:09.640 destroy an
00:31:13.460 industry
00:31:13.820 to destroy a
00:31:14.720 whole sector
00:31:15.200 of jobs
00:31:15.720 so it's
00:31:17.300 a surprise
00:31:18.540 I would go so
00:31:20.760 far as to say
00:31:21.100 I was a little
00:31:21.440 bit shocked
00:31:21.940 even that we
00:31:22.460 didn't see a
00:31:22.980 return to
00:31:23.460 pragmatic
00:31:23.920 approach
00:31:25.980 and have
00:31:27.660 Canadians all
00:31:28.220 come together
00:31:28.660 let's solve
00:31:29.140 this crisis
00:31:29.600 together
00:31:30.080 and you know
00:31:31.360 we've talked
00:31:31.760 about it
00:31:31.980 we're all in
00:31:32.320 this together
00:31:32.780 I mean
00:31:33.000 people made
00:31:33.420 that we're
00:31:33.720 all in
00:31:33.920 this together
00:31:34.360 well if
00:31:35.420 we're all
00:31:35.640 in this
00:31:35.840 together
00:31:36.100 why are
00:31:36.520 we destroying
00:31:37.440 an industry
00:31:38.240 with world
00:31:38.680 leading performance
00:31:39.440 or working
00:31:40.300 together with
00:31:40.880 the US
00:31:41.180 government
00:31:41.420 to destroy
00:31:41.860 an industry
00:31:42.260 with world
00:31:43.120 leading performance
00:31:43.780 makes no
00:31:44.800 sense
00:31:45.100 but it is
00:31:45.820 an example
00:31:46.380 of you know
00:31:46.740 ideology
00:31:47.220 over pragmatism
00:31:49.100 when you say
00:31:49.900 ideology though
00:31:50.700 that is I
00:31:51.300 think very
00:31:51.840 telling
00:31:52.280 because this
00:31:53.360 is not just
00:31:54.180 against pipelines
00:31:55.560 but it's
00:31:56.080 actually a
00:31:56.820 fundamental
00:31:57.200 rejection
00:31:57.840 of oil
00:31:58.920 as a source
00:31:59.520 of energy
00:32:00.020 but they
00:32:00.900 don't have
00:32:01.580 an alternative
00:32:02.220 I mean
00:32:02.840 even the
00:32:03.220 renewables
00:32:03.760 they talk
00:32:04.500 about like
00:32:05.120 oh well
00:32:05.700 solar and
00:32:06.300 wind
00:32:06.520 I mean
00:32:06.760 these are
00:32:07.180 not things
00:32:07.780 that are
00:32:08.080 capable
00:32:08.460 of doing
00:32:09.100 what oil
00:32:10.560 and gas
00:32:11.120 are
00:32:11.500 so is
00:32:12.220 there
00:32:12.400 actually
00:32:12.900 a what
00:32:13.360 comes
00:32:13.700 next
00:32:14.060 to the
00:32:14.680 activists
00:32:15.100 that are
00:32:15.380 trying
00:32:15.620 to go
00:32:15.940 after
00:32:16.220 pipelines
00:32:16.800 yeah
00:32:18.320 well I
00:32:18.820 I guess
00:32:19.520 I look
00:32:19.960 at and say
00:32:20.360 well would
00:32:20.880 it be
00:32:21.180 possible
00:32:21.720 for one
00:32:22.640 country
00:32:23.060 you know
00:32:23.480 Germany
00:32:23.840 Denmark
00:32:24.280 Canada
00:32:24.740 you know
00:32:25.400 one of
00:32:25.680 the rich
00:32:26.500 G7
00:32:27.120 or OECD
00:32:27.780 countries
00:32:28.140 say
00:32:28.340 well we're
00:32:29.000 going to
00:32:29.260 go off
00:32:29.700 oil
00:32:29.980 as a
00:32:30.340 demonstration
00:32:30.780 to the
00:32:31.400 world
00:32:31.720 of an
00:32:32.180 ideology
00:32:32.700 I mean
00:32:34.160 it's okay
00:32:34.460 well that
00:32:34.960 that seems
00:32:35.840 like maybe
00:32:36.480 that's
00:32:36.840 possible
00:32:37.260 but if
00:32:38.280 we're looking
00:32:38.660 at this
00:32:38.980 as a
00:32:39.400 we truly
00:32:40.220 look at this
00:32:40.660 we've got a
00:32:41.160 global issue
00:32:42.040 of emissions
00:32:43.480 and we've got a
00:32:44.240 global issue
00:32:44.860 of population
00:32:45.500 growth
00:32:45.820 and all of
00:32:46.280 the all of
00:32:47.000 the impacts
00:32:47.540 that that's
00:32:47.940 that has on
00:32:48.560 our environment
00:32:49.000 how do we
00:32:49.680 manage that
00:32:50.320 better
00:32:50.740 globally
00:32:51.320 well then
00:32:52.040 this makes
00:32:52.380 absolutely
00:32:52.800 no sense
00:32:53.700 whatsoever
00:32:54.440 you know
00:32:56.040 our industry
00:32:56.660 in Canada
00:32:57.440 you know
00:32:58.400 are coming
00:32:59.540 up with
00:33:00.000 real world
00:33:00.860 solutions
00:33:01.440 that will
00:33:02.200 make the
00:33:02.880 global
00:33:03.240 problem
00:33:03.760 better
00:33:04.140 and we
00:33:05.440 have a
00:33:05.980 government
00:33:06.260 saying
00:33:06.720 no
00:33:07.160 we just
00:33:08.120 want to
00:33:08.580 see lower
00:33:09.100 emissions
00:33:09.420 in Canada
00:33:09.960 we don't
00:33:10.340 we don't
00:33:10.720 care if
00:33:11.520 that would
00:33:11.820 cause
00:33:12.140 higher
00:33:12.500 emissions
00:33:12.880 globally
00:33:13.320 we just
00:33:14.000 want lower
00:33:14.480 emissions
00:33:14.780 in Canada
00:33:15.140 I wrote
00:33:15.880 a paper
00:33:16.260 on this
00:33:16.620 you know
00:33:16.880 called
00:33:17.280 carbon
00:33:17.800 leakage
00:33:18.220 when
00:33:18.440 and you
00:33:19.320 know
00:33:19.440 very simply
00:33:20.500 carbon
00:33:20.880 leakage
00:33:21.160 is when
00:33:21.960 you know
00:33:22.540 your policies
00:33:23.980 at home
00:33:24.560 reduce
00:33:25.200 emissions
00:33:25.900 here
00:33:26.280 but the
00:33:26.800 net effect
00:33:27.280 is you
00:33:27.560 actually
00:33:28.540 just move
00:33:28.980 them
00:33:29.120 somewhere
00:33:29.480 else
00:33:29.820 and the
00:33:30.160 emissions
00:33:30.460 go up
00:33:31.000 so it's
00:33:31.900 also referred
00:33:32.440 to as a
00:33:32.800 green paradox
00:33:33.400 but Canada
00:33:34.440 is living it
00:33:35.000 we're implementing
00:33:36.540 policies
00:33:37.560 like our
00:33:38.840 seen
00:33:39.680 cooperation
00:33:41.160 with the
00:33:41.740 Americans
00:33:42.140 on cancelling
00:33:42.680 this pipeline
00:33:43.120 we're implementing
00:33:45.340 policies here
00:33:46.360 that may reduce
00:33:47.560 emissions here
00:33:48.220 but they will
00:33:48.840 cause global
00:33:49.520 emissions
00:33:49.920 on a net
00:33:50.920 base
00:33:51.200 go up
00:33:52.140 because as you
00:33:52.720 mentioned
00:33:53.040 that oil
00:33:53.960 is going to
00:33:54.220 be replaced
00:33:54.700 by someone
00:33:55.300 the US
00:33:56.820 refineries
00:33:57.460 in that
00:33:57.760 part of
00:33:58.040 the world
00:33:58.360 will
00:33:58.980 their other
00:33:59.600 two options
00:34:00.160 are Mexico
00:34:00.640 and Venezuela
00:34:01.240 is there
00:34:02.200 anybody
00:34:02.660 that thinks
00:34:03.300 that the
00:34:03.580 environmental
00:34:03.940 performance
00:34:04.500 of Mexico
00:34:05.020 and Venezuela
00:34:05.520 is better
00:34:05.980 than ours
00:34:06.400 yeah you
00:34:07.140 raise I
00:34:07.720 think a
00:34:07.960 really important
00:34:08.560 point there
00:34:09.160 and it is
00:34:09.760 interesting
00:34:10.160 because we
00:34:10.660 hear all the
00:34:11.520 time that
00:34:12.000 you know
00:34:12.480 what we
00:34:12.800 can't have
00:34:13.200 local solutions
00:34:14.100 to climate
00:34:14.920 change and
00:34:15.380 emissions
00:34:15.680 because these
00:34:16.640 are global
00:34:17.360 problems
00:34:17.900 it's a global
00:34:18.480 phenomena
00:34:18.940 but the
00:34:19.820 reality is
00:34:20.880 that countries
00:34:21.600 are competing
00:34:22.260 with each
00:34:22.660 other even
00:34:23.020 within countries
00:34:23.740 states are
00:34:24.300 competing with
00:34:24.800 other states
00:34:25.420 provinces are
00:34:26.360 competing with
00:34:26.840 other provinces
00:34:27.800 to be competitive
00:34:28.560 so if a country
00:34:30.120 does do this
00:34:30.920 whole utopian
00:34:31.700 idea take the
00:34:33.080 Paris climate
00:34:33.740 agreement and
00:34:34.580 follow through
00:34:36.160 with those plans
00:34:36.900 and go above
00:34:37.880 and beyond
00:34:38.260 all that really
00:34:39.120 does is allow
00:34:39.980 for someone
00:34:40.820 else to be
00:34:41.500 the beneficiary
00:34:42.200 of these jobs
00:34:42.880 and it's not to
00:34:43.400 say that countries
00:34:44.380 should do nothing
00:34:45.080 but I think there
00:34:45.780 needs to be a lot
00:34:46.420 more celebration
00:34:47.240 of the point
00:34:48.220 that you've
00:34:48.640 raised Michael
00:34:49.140 which is how
00:34:49.660 much the private
00:34:50.320 sector has already
00:34:51.160 advanced on these
00:34:52.600 issues much
00:34:53.560 quicker than
00:34:54.320 I would add
00:34:54.900 many governments
00:34:55.920 have
00:34:56.260 yeah I
00:34:58.820 you know I
00:34:59.240 think that
00:34:59.700 that's exactly
00:35:01.620 right and you
00:35:02.260 know what I
00:35:02.500 would say as
00:35:02.980 well is I
00:35:03.440 mean I think
00:35:03.840 people in
00:35:04.360 industry and
00:35:05.280 I'll count
00:35:05.860 myself you
00:35:06.600 know among
00:35:06.880 those people
00:35:07.320 but you know
00:35:07.740 some of the
00:35:08.120 bigger companies
00:35:08.800 Suncor,
00:35:09.700 CNRL etc
00:35:10.420 I think that
00:35:11.980 they have really
00:35:12.680 embraced this
00:35:13.600 idea that we
00:35:14.300 do need to
00:35:14.860 transition our
00:35:15.520 energy systems
00:35:16.300 but on a
00:35:17.340 realistic basis
00:35:18.020 looking at the
00:35:18.640 global problem
00:35:19.480 of supplying
00:35:20.000 global energy
00:35:20.620 to a growing
00:35:21.180 population
00:35:21.820 they've realized
00:35:22.960 that that future
00:35:23.660 energy mix is
00:35:24.400 going to include
00:35:25.200 hydrocarbons
00:35:25.980 and which is not
00:35:26.900 to say we should
00:35:27.440 be against wind
00:35:28.440 right you know
00:35:28.980 right energy in
00:35:29.580 its right place
00:35:30.200 in some places
00:35:31.140 that's wind
00:35:31.820 in some places
00:35:32.520 it's hydro
00:35:33.080 nuclear solar
00:35:34.940 and as technology
00:35:36.400 changes the right
00:35:37.180 energy in its right
00:35:38.060 place will change
00:35:38.760 as well
00:35:39.120 but you know
00:35:40.020 I think a lot
00:35:40.520 of people are
00:35:41.540 recognizing that
00:35:42.480 solar and wind
00:35:43.720 you know the
00:35:44.040 technology is
00:35:44.700 advancing quickly
00:35:45.620 we're all hearing
00:35:46.260 about that all the
00:35:46.840 time
00:35:47.100 what seems to be
00:35:48.680 going unnoticed
00:35:49.560 is that I think
00:35:50.660 the oil and gas
00:35:51.300 industry is
00:35:51.800 innovating even
00:35:52.600 faster
00:35:53.100 you know we're
00:35:54.160 under pressure
00:35:55.020 to provide
00:35:55.820 you know a
00:35:56.760 product that's
00:35:57.500 that people
00:35:57.980 come to rely
00:35:58.680 on it's I
00:35:59.100 think I think
00:35:59.800 an excellent
00:36:00.680 product from
00:36:01.300 its from its
00:36:02.100 just physical
00:36:03.300 components and
00:36:04.060 what it can do
00:36:04.960 for whether
00:36:05.560 making plastics
00:36:06.420 for hospitals
00:36:07.000 or compact
00:36:08.100 energy for
00:36:08.680 transportation
00:36:09.220 but we've
00:36:10.820 been making
00:36:11.280 unbelievable
00:36:11.980 progress on
00:36:12.880 reducing the
00:36:13.940 emissions and
00:36:14.600 and I don't
00:36:16.280 want to I don't
00:36:17.020 want to ramble on
00:36:17.680 here but the
00:36:18.340 other thing
00:36:18.720 it's not
00:36:19.260 people are not
00:36:20.140 talking about
00:36:20.820 is the some
00:36:21.860 of the advances
00:36:22.300 on the consumption
00:36:23.080 side so I'll
00:36:24.540 make a little
00:36:25.060 bit of a bold
00:36:27.500 statement just
00:36:28.420 for effect here
00:36:29.240 but it's possible
00:36:30.400 that oil and gas
00:36:31.240 is closer to zero
00:36:32.120 emissions and
00:36:32.940 solar and wind
00:36:33.620 now I'll explain
00:36:34.820 that point because
00:36:35.600 it's a bit of a
00:36:36.200 bold statement
00:36:36.600 but the reason
00:36:37.800 for that is that
00:36:38.440 we're getting
00:36:38.860 close to being
00:36:39.720 able to capture
00:36:40.600 carbon we're
00:36:41.540 finding ways to
00:36:42.620 use CO2 as a
00:36:44.520 feedstock for
00:36:45.320 other products
00:36:45.940 so my company
00:36:49.120 and some other
00:36:50.000 companies are
00:36:50.540 getting close to
00:36:51.480 zero emissions
00:36:52.320 production so I
00:36:53.860 mean that's a
00:36:54.240 whole I've opened
00:36:54.760 up a whole can
00:36:55.220 of worms there
00:36:55.840 Andrew and I
00:36:56.400 don't want to
00:36:56.900 ramble on but
00:36:57.640 I think people
00:36:59.020 are not noticing
00:36:59.980 just how amazing
00:37:01.620 of solutions the
00:37:03.060 private sector is
00:37:03.960 coming up to
00:37:04.480 coming up with
00:37:05.640 and I'm getting
00:37:07.360 back to the
00:37:07.840 point of
00:37:08.140 ideology I
00:37:09.460 sometimes think
00:37:10.160 that the people
00:37:10.700 who are doing
00:37:11.100 this for
00:37:11.360 ideological reasons
00:37:12.400 only want
00:37:13.480 government solutions
00:37:14.320 and in fact are
00:37:15.600 unhappy with the
00:37:17.060 fact that the
00:37:17.540 private sector is
00:37:18.160 coming up with
00:37:18.640 solutions and
00:37:19.600 maybe even better
00:37:20.380 ones yeah because
00:37:21.300 I know that if I
00:37:22.100 were to bring up
00:37:23.100 the point that you
00:37:23.780 just raised about
00:37:24.780 some of these
00:37:25.240 innovations people
00:37:26.320 are going to
00:37:26.800 discount it and
00:37:27.480 not even want to
00:37:28.000 hear it because
00:37:28.460 oh it's coming
00:37:28.960 from an oil and
00:37:29.620 gas company and
00:37:30.800 I've already seen
00:37:31.740 just the comparisons
00:37:32.560 that people make
00:37:33.320 between oil and
00:37:34.000 gas companies and
00:37:34.840 and others just
00:37:35.720 these big evil
00:37:36.500 corporate overlords
00:37:37.580 on these but but
00:37:38.520 the reality is
00:37:39.680 private sector
00:37:40.660 solutions should be
00:37:41.680 encouraged because
00:37:42.480 the argument for
00:37:44.060 a government
00:37:44.520 response is only
00:37:45.540 if a response
00:37:46.280 can't come from
00:37:47.020 anywhere else
00:37:47.800 right well I
00:37:49.960 mean what you
00:37:51.260 know who's
00:37:52.400 shocked that that
00:37:53.460 the private sector
00:37:54.380 if properly
00:37:55.040 motivated and of
00:37:56.020 course that goes to
00:37:56.740 what you said some
00:37:57.720 of the opponents
00:37:58.440 say but if
00:37:59.340 properly motivated
00:38:00.160 who's shocked that
00:38:00.980 the that the
00:38:01.580 market and private
00:38:02.380 enterprise is
00:38:03.520 better at coming
00:38:04.160 up with technical
00:38:05.040 solutions and for
00:38:06.500 for problems than
00:38:07.940 the government is
00:38:08.580 like who's shocked
00:38:09.320 by that hopefully
00:38:10.140 almost no one
00:38:11.120 right
00:38:11.680 the question
00:38:12.440 comes down to
00:38:13.100 can you know
00:38:13.640 is is is the
00:38:14.740 private sector
00:38:15.260 actually properly
00:38:16.020 motivated and and
00:38:17.280 you know the the
00:38:18.240 people you refer to
00:38:19.060 are saying well
00:38:19.840 you know you guys
00:38:20.360 only care about
00:38:20.980 making profits so
00:38:21.920 why would you care
00:38:22.560 about the
00:38:22.840 environment but you
00:38:24.240 know I would make
00:38:24.820 two points there
00:38:25.560 one is that you
00:38:27.860 know people the
00:38:29.040 people that work in
00:38:29.700 our industry you
00:38:31.740 know live you
00:38:32.420 know there's I
00:38:32.940 think 800,000
00:38:33.960 people 800,000
00:38:35.420 families across the
00:38:36.320 country that that
00:38:37.300 rely on the oil and
00:38:38.620 gas industry either
00:38:39.480 for a direct job or
00:38:40.720 an indirect job and
00:38:42.580 you know these people
00:38:43.240 live across the country
00:38:44.080 they're people just
00:38:44.720 like you me people
00:38:47.000 listening to this show
00:38:47.940 they live in they live
00:38:48.860 in neighborhoods with
00:38:49.800 us so why would we
00:38:51.420 think those people
00:38:52.120 don't care about the
00:38:53.100 environment just as much
00:38:54.300 as you do and I mean
00:38:56.200 these people work in our
00:38:57.280 companies I know them of
00:38:58.480 course they do you know
00:39:00.220 they love to go hiking on
00:39:01.240 the weekends too so but
00:39:02.900 the other the other point
00:39:03.820 is is that it's I think
00:39:04.880 it's become quite clear and
00:39:06.140 I and I want to give
00:39:06.860 some credit to the
00:39:08.380 environmental movement
00:39:09.440 here and and and you
00:39:11.420 can distinguish in the
00:39:12.400 environmental movement
00:39:13.000 there's those people who
00:39:14.180 are you know I think
00:39:15.800 genuine and I think
00:39:16.660 there's those people who
00:39:17.600 are only caring about
00:39:18.920 ideology but but there's
00:39:20.400 been a lot of good
00:39:21.020 people in the environmental
00:39:21.660 movement who've made
00:39:22.380 the case for why we have
00:39:23.580 to care about this it
00:39:24.680 made the case for why
00:39:25.540 there has to be taxes and
00:39:26.920 regulations on some of
00:39:28.680 these issues industry in
00:39:30.640 the market are just
00:39:31.200 responding to those
00:39:31.980 things we're realizing
00:39:32.840 now if we want you know
00:39:33.680 if we want to get
00:39:34.280 investment if we want to
00:39:35.820 be profitable in a new
00:39:37.700 world of higher
00:39:38.400 regulation and taxes
00:39:39.380 well we've responded to
00:39:41.320 that I don't think
00:39:41.960 people are noticing just
00:39:44.120 how fast that innovation
00:39:45.900 is happening
00:39:46.400 Michael Binion the
00:39:47.620 executive director of
00:39:48.840 the modern miracle
00:39:49.780 network joins me
00:39:50.700 Michael always a
00:39:51.620 pleasure thanks for
00:39:52.260 coming on and shining
00:39:53.280 the light on this
00:39:54.060 no no great anytime
00:39:55.540 Andrew thank you for
00:39:56.280 thank you for having
00:39:56.960 me that was Michael
00:39:58.000 Binion of the modern
00:39:59.060 miracle network always a
00:40:00.540 pleasure to catch up
00:40:01.300 with Michael usually I
00:40:02.080 see him out west but
00:40:02.860 of course I'm you know
00:40:03.800 never getting to go
00:40:04.780 anywhere these days so
00:40:05.600 I haven't seen him in a
00:40:06.380 little while but I
00:40:07.420 appreciate his time
00:40:08.140 nonetheless that does it
00:40:09.400 for us for today we'll
00:40:10.520 be back in just a few
00:40:12.020 days with more of
00:40:12.940 Canada's most irreverent
00:40:14.080 talk show this is the
00:40:15.220 Andrew Lawton show on
00:40:16.100 true north thank you God
00:40:17.380 bless and good day
00:40:18.240 Canada thanks for
00:40:19.400 listening to the Andrew
00:40:20.280 Lawton show support the
00:40:21.620 program by donating to
00:40:22.720 true north at www.tnc.news
00:40:26.340 com Elias
00:40:31.740 thank you very much for
00:40:32.160 being in the
00:40:32.440 pandemic
00:40:32.540 I was going to go from
00:40:33.020 powerful
00:40:34.800 coast and me by the way
00:40:35.020 obviously we're going to
00:40:36.120 expanddd
00:40:40.980 or inspired the
00:40:41.180 20 м
00:40:44.800 please
00:40:45.860 meet each lady
00:40:46.540 immediately
00:40:47.320 for anyone
00:40:47.920 singles
00:40:48.580 drop
00:40:50.740 them
00:40:51.860 into
00:40:52.260 days
00:40:52.680 in
00:40:53.320 their