Juno News - July 29, 2024


New documentary offers five ways to fix Canadian health care

Topics
long wait times in health care system public opinion on healthcare reform public support for privatization of healthcare
Mentioned
Andrew Lawton Show Colin Craig Joe Patient Jerry John
Trudeau canโ€™t stop hiring federal employees The Liberals have bungled Canadian immigration

Episode Stats


Length

12 minutes

Words per minute

178.86

Word count

2,184

Sentence count

144

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

A new documentary, Health Reform Now, explores the need for universal health care in Canada. Producer Colin Craig joins us to talk about what the film is trying to say, and why we need a wholesale change in our health care system.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 You're tuned in to the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:00:08.740 Our good friends at secondstreet.org have a new documentary out saying we need to have a
00:00:14.100 wholesale national conversation about health care reform. The documentary is called Health
00:00:19.780 Reform Now. Let's take a look at the trailer here if we can.
00:00:24.500 Poured out very recently citing the Canada's the second best health care system in the world.
00:00:29.100 We begin tonight with the agonizing pain patients are facing.
00:00:33.560 I've seen wait times lead directly to people dying, including children.
00:00:38.140 She has lost two daughters due to long wait times in the health care system.
00:00:47.600 When you have elective surgery, they elect to stall you off as long as they possibly can.
00:00:53.980 What kind of a health care system is that?
00:00:55.380 I already waited seven years. Can you imagine two more just to see the specialist?
00:01:02.460 So the last thing the chief financial officer of a hospital wants is patients.
00:01:09.740 Is it normal to see so much patients suffering in a developed country like Canada?
00:01:14.300 The documentary just out, available at healthreformnow.ca, produced by secondstreet.org, whose president, Colin Craig, joins us now.
00:01:34.100 Good to talk to you, Colin. Thanks for coming back on. Congratulations on the launch.
00:01:37.460 Well, thank you, Andrew. It's always so. I always enjoy chatting with you.
00:01:41.700 Well, reform is one of these tricky words because it can mean anything and nothing, depending on who says it.
00:01:47.240 And, you know, there are many ways you could reform the system, some for the better, some for the worse.
00:01:51.720 What is it that this film is trying to tell people?
00:01:54.280 Well, anyone who follows health care debate in this country knows that Canadians love the idea of having a universal health care system.
00:02:03.800 The problem, of course, is that it's not working.
00:02:06.060 We spend a lot of money. We're one of the highest spenders in the world.
00:02:09.360 We have a lot of good people working in the system, too.
00:02:12.300 The problem is the structure of the system is broken.
00:02:14.700 It's not conducive to getting good results for patients on a consistent basis.
00:02:20.880 And, you know, certainly some people have good experiences with the health care system.
00:02:24.200 That's wonderful. But the problem is too many patients are falling between the cracks.
00:02:28.580 And so really what we do in the documentary is we look at other better performing universal health care systems, particularly in Europe.
00:02:37.920 And we examine five policies that are in place in those types of countries so that you ultimately would see better policies here in Canada.
00:02:47.380 So basically we can copy what people are doing much better than us and then we can bring those good results to Canada.
00:02:54.020 One of the big challenges we see in this country is that people cling to this idea of the health care system being something that it really isn't.
00:03:04.120 And I'll say perfectly candidly that the utopian version of the health care system is fantastic.
00:03:09.620 It's something that's free. Anyone can access it. No matter where you are in the country, you can go and get it.
00:03:14.100 But if you scratch even just a tiny little bit below the surface, that's not the experience that Canadians have with the system.
00:03:21.640 And look, I've had many run-ins with the health care system.
00:03:25.140 Whenever I have needed emergency treatment, I have zero complaints whatsoever.
00:03:30.040 I've been able to get it.
00:03:31.440 The issue is not with emergencies.
00:03:33.020 The issue is with these things that are very pressing for people but might not rise to the level of, you know, your organs are falling out all over the floor.
00:03:41.040 And that category, the stats are just horrendous.
00:03:44.800 Yeah. And Jerry alluded to this, as you would have seen in the trailer just now, that when you have elective cases in particular,
00:03:52.680 they elect to make you wait because they can.
00:03:54.720 And it's not right. There's so many people that are suffering because of this, people that are literally stuck in their apartments dealing with chronic, chronic pain.
00:04:06.200 And it's brutal, you know, grandmas and grandkids, they can't pick up their grandkids or babysit them or be part of their lives because they can't keep up with them. 0.73
00:04:16.300 And, you know, if the grandkids crawl on them, then it causes too much pain, you know, just horrible stories like that.
00:04:22.760 People walking around with cloudy vision while they wait for cataract surgery.
00:04:26.380 And, you know, we've actually heard, you know, some bad cases in emergency rooms too, where, you know, in one case in Winnipeg,
00:04:33.680 they reported that the situation was so bad earlier this year that they had to double bunk two patients on a single stretcher in the hospital.
00:04:44.480 Like, it's just, it's gotten to a point where it's really, really unacceptable in this country.
00:04:50.440 And I think some people have become a little bit numb to just assuming, well, this is how it is, or we have the U.S. system.
00:04:58.200 And what we talk about in the documentaries that, no, that doesn't have to be the choice.
00:05:03.340 Let's look to Europe. Let's look to Australia and other developed nations that have better performing universal health care systems.
00:05:10.680 Because if we copy what they do, we can ease patient suffering so that people aren't measuring their wait times in years and maybe get back to weeks,
00:05:18.800 you know, which is where it should be in a developed country such as ours.
00:05:22.540 In the Shiaouli case in Quebec, which was one of the most frustrating examples of our legal system at work, 0.99
00:05:29.380 because this was the case where the Supreme Court basically ruled that access to a waiting list is not access to health care,
00:05:35.740 which is a crucial ruling, but they basically found the exact opposite in another case that has basically found that
00:05:42.720 you only have a right to alternatives in Quebec and nowhere else in the country.
00:05:46.900 So we can talk about the legal aspect there, but that fundamental point there that came out of that case,
00:05:51.280 that access to a waiting list is not access to health care,
00:05:53.560 that seems to be the missing recognition by the government across the country, is it not?
00:05:57.900 Yeah, it is. You're not providing health care if someone's on a waiting list for a year or two
00:06:06.860 and they're dealing with chronic pain and they're getting addicted to painkillers
00:06:09.900 and all the horrible side effects that I just talked about.
00:06:12.260 It's not ethical, but for some reason we've just allowed that to continue.
00:06:17.560 And, you know, I think political parties of all stripes have largely been guilty for 30 years
00:06:22.820 of throwing money at the problem and hoping it would go away because they haven't been prepared
00:06:28.140 to have that conversation with Canadians about reform.
00:06:31.560 It is a delicate issue, but public opinion is in favor of reform.
00:06:36.800 People, I think, have watched this story play out.
00:06:39.260 They're saying it's not working.
00:06:40.300 This approach where we throw money at the system, it's not working.
00:06:42.880 We spend a lot. We're not getting the results we need.
00:06:45.260 So the public is actually on side with reform.
00:06:47.860 And we haven't seen enough political parties and politicians sort of run with it now
00:06:53.700 and say, OK, here's what we're going to do.
00:06:55.200 We're going to try out some new things like that have been effective in other countries
00:06:58.780 in Europe and Australia and other other countries.
00:07:02.020 And that's, I think, the stage where we need to be.
00:07:04.920 We're seeing a bit of that.
00:07:05.900 There's some positive signs in this country where we're seeing some reform measures happen,
00:07:09.480 but it's not quick enough.
00:07:11.100 And until we start to see a greater push in that direction,
00:07:14.320 we're going to continue to see people suffering from health care.
00:07:16.880 So when you say, Colin, that the public is on board with reform,
00:07:21.520 that in a lot of ways flies in the face of what the conventional understanding is,
00:07:26.100 which is that this is a political third rail.
00:07:28.380 And I think we see bits of this anecdotally.
00:07:30.120 Anytime a politician is even so much as hinted at the idea of private delivery,
00:07:35.600 you get this just absolute holy hellfire from liberal and new democrat parties
00:07:40.820 and some activist groups talking about switching to some pay-to-play health care system.
00:07:45.960 And so are you saying that those attacks are not representative of where Canadians are?
00:07:50.340 Because I would have actually thought it would go the other way.
00:07:52.340 The Canadians really are uncomfortable with the idea of a change,
00:07:55.260 even if they don't love how things are.
00:07:57.520 Yeah.
00:07:57.760 So we've done a lot of polling on this.
00:07:59.720 It's all on our website.
00:08:00.620 If anyone wants to see it, secondstreet.org.
00:08:02.880 I think the public overwhelmingly supports what we're seeing in different parts of the country,
00:08:09.100 where the government will contract with a nonprofit clinic or a private clinic
00:08:14.800 and pay them to provide care to treatment to patients in the public system.
00:08:20.980 The public supports that.
00:08:22.340 John or Joe Patient doesn't care who is like flicking the switch of the x-ray machine.
00:08:30.340 They don't care if it's a government employee or a private sector employee
00:08:33.320 or if they're unionized or non-unionized or if they have black hair or brown hair or whatever.
00:08:37.860 They don't care about any of that.
00:08:39.340 They just care that they get the quality treatment.
00:08:42.040 They also don't want to pay for it directly with a bill when they walk out.
00:08:46.560 Of course, everything is paid for with the taxes.
00:08:49.940 And so that's what we're seeing in provinces like Ontario,
00:08:53.180 where the government is now partnering more with private clinics and nonprofit clinics
00:08:57.200 to provide those services to the public.
00:09:00.020 And the public overwhelmingly is supportive of doing that
00:09:02.740 if it can be done in a cost-effective way and help more patients.
00:09:06.720 The public is on side with that.
00:09:07.960 You mentioned the Chow Lee decision.
00:09:10.160 The public is overwhelmingly on side.
00:09:13.120 It's in the 60s, 70s percent range.
00:09:16.080 When you ask the question, should we keep the public health care system
00:09:19.180 but allow people to pay for private options if they don't want to use the public system?
00:09:24.080 The public overwhelmingly supports that.
00:09:27.500 There's other policies that we talked about in the documentary
00:09:31.020 that the public is on board with.
00:09:33.740 What you see in Europe where a patient in one EU country can go to another EU country,
00:09:38.260 pay for treatment, and then get reimbursed by their home country.
00:09:41.920 This is how you can avoid long wait times at home.
00:09:44.760 If you happen to be facing one in Europe, you can go to all these other countries in the EU,
00:09:49.760 suddenly you've got hundreds if not thousands of options for care
00:09:53.320 instead of just relying on what is available locally.
00:09:56.760 The public loves this idea of bringing that policy to Canada.
00:10:00.080 So you could maybe go to another province and pay for treatment,
00:10:03.660 to the south of the border, or maybe you go over to Europe, whatever.
00:10:06.800 So the public is definitely there and ready for health reform,
00:10:12.080 but we're not seeing the political class move quickly enough
00:10:15.420 to recognize that with promises in terms of decisions.
00:10:19.620 Yeah, I mean, I'll be the first to say the United States health care system
00:10:22.020 has a lot of flaws.
00:10:23.080 And most people that have the discussion you and I are having right now
00:10:25.840 are not saying we should replace our system with the U.S.
00:10:28.000 when there are so many better examples around the world.
00:10:30.380 But when I cross the border, you know, at Port Huron,
00:10:33.240 an hour from where I live in Michigan,
00:10:34.820 and you see the billboards on the interstate advertising,
00:10:39.140 you know, MRIs and x-rays to Canadians,
00:10:41.620 you know that something is not working in Canada.
00:10:44.300 Otherwise, there would not be this booming marketing industry
00:10:47.540 in border communities to provide health care services to Canadians.
00:10:52.120 Yeah, exactly.
00:10:53.740 Yeah, hundreds of thousands of Canadians every year
00:10:56.320 get into their cars, drive to the U.S.,
00:10:58.240 and they get into airplanes,
00:10:59.340 and they go to the U.S. or other countries for health care.
00:11:02.540 I mean, we've talked to patients that have gone over to,
00:11:05.720 I think it was Lithuania, Germany, Mexico, the United States,
00:11:11.720 China, Thailand, you name it.
00:11:15.260 The Canadians are going all over the world to get the treatment.
00:11:19.320 All right.
00:11:20.020 Well, people can check out this issue in far more detail
00:11:22.940 at healthreformnow.ca.
00:11:25.860 The documentary produced by our friends at secondstreet.org
00:11:28.980 is Health Reform Now.
00:11:31.020 Colin Craig, always good to talk to you.
00:11:32.440 Thanks for coming on today.
00:11:33.820 Thanks for the chat today, Andrew.
00:11:35.180 I appreciate it.
00:11:35.820 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:11:38.220 Support the program by donating to True North
00:11:40.280 at www.tnc.news.
00:11:45.260 For more than 2 ๋…ธ๋ž˜ tourists,
00:11:46.500 the members of the organization and the host of the judgement
00:11:50.660 of pivot, love to grow as a career peaks.
00:11:52.260 It's just that the group breaks and we can engage
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00:11:55.320 Take care, do nothing more.
00:11:56.980 Why was there hiding?
00:11:57.840 ฮทฮฝ backing, do everything...
00:11:58.540 the people...
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