Juno News - March 16, 2024


On C2C： Are Freedom Convoy figures being politically persecuted？


Episode Stats

Length

10 minutes

Words per Minute

175.79393

Word Count

1,788

Sentence Count

91

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 One of the most worrying trends we have seen in Canada in the last couple of years has been
00:00:15.020 the weaponization of the judicial process and how, first off, absent the judicial process is
00:00:22.080 when it comes to matters of civil liberty. But even when you look at the way that certain cases
00:00:25.960 are prosecuted, we've all seen stories of this revolving door for people that are arrested
00:00:30.920 for very violent or very despicable offenses and they find themselves out on bail basically
00:00:37.560 immediately. And then you have, in contrast with that, cases like that of Tamara Leach and Chris
00:00:43.060 Barber, two of the organizers of the Freedom Convoy who were arrested in February 2022, didn't go on
00:00:50.340 trial until September 2023 and we are now six months later and their trial is still underway
00:00:58.660 with no immediately discernible or identified end in sight. Now in the case of Tamara Leach,
00:01:05.460 she languished behind bars, I think it was for about 49 days if memory serves, whereas Chris Barber
00:01:10.980 was fortunate enough to get released on bail not long after his arrest. But the cases of both of
00:01:17.300 them, I think, raised significant questions about whether there is a politicized, a politicization
00:01:22.740 of the prosecution. You look in contrast to the case in Coutts IV. Now this is a bit of a trickier
00:01:28.820 one because there has been, for a lot of this, a publication ban around key details. So I haven't
00:01:34.340 actually been able to talk about a lot of the case because of this limitation. But what we do know is
00:01:38.900 that two of the Coutts IV were released on lesser charges. The other two are still incarcerated,
00:01:45.140 have been denied bail, and they are awaiting trial on charges of a conspiracy to kill police officers.
00:01:51.540 Again, very serious charges, but they, like anyone else, have a right to their day in court. But I've
00:01:56.580 heard more than ever before in the time I've covered crime and justice issues, people that simply do not
00:02:02.420 trust the justice system. And there was a fascinating essay in the C2C Journal about the worrying, the
00:02:08.660 the worrisome wave of politicized prosecutions. It was written by Gwyn Morgan, who is a legend in
00:02:15.620 the Canadian oil and gas sector. He was the CEO of Encana back when, well, back when it was Encana,
00:02:20.740 and also back when it was a Canadian company. And he's always been a tremendous supporter of True
00:02:25.220 North. Good to have you back on. Thanks for coming today.
00:02:27.540 Oh, thank you. And the reason I have this passion, I'm not trying to be like the old Captain Morgan,
00:02:33.060 the pirate. It's really because I just had an eye operation. I have to have it on for a few days.
00:02:38.420 All right. Well, I hope you're healing up and I appreciate you not letting you get in the way
00:02:41.940 of our interview that's scheduled today. But so you've delved into this incredibly important issue
00:02:47.700 here in the politicization of the political process. And I'm always clear to say that, you know,
00:02:52.260 we have to see in some of these cases, which are still ongoing, what the courts are going to find
00:02:57.220 and what the facts are. But why was this bothering you so much looking at this from the sidelines?
00:03:01.780 Well, when you look, when you look at this whole situation, when you talk about the truckers
00:03:06.580 convoy, the prosecution of them, there's been eight persons associated with the convoys,
00:03:13.460 both at Coutts and in Ottawa, who have served nine years in jail without parole,
00:03:23.140 with which what now a judge has ruled is not even a crime. And yet, you know, we open the papers every
00:03:29.540 few days and we see a violent, somebody killed by someone released on the catch and release system,
00:03:36.180 committing a murder, a horrible murder. And so the only explanation for this, Andrew, is political
00:03:44.740 interference in the justice system. And I think it starts at the top.
00:03:49.460 Do you think, let's unpack that for a moment, because do you think the issue is that there is
00:03:54.020 a case of judges taking their marching orders, perhaps not explicitly, but implicitly from
00:04:00.020 political leaders? Or do you think it's just in who's getting appointed to the bench? Do you think
00:04:03.620 it's just that leaders are appointing judges of a certain political persuasion and this is just their
00:04:08.900 bias on display? Well, there's no doubt about the last part of that. I mean, the Supreme Court,
00:04:14.980 the head of the Supreme Court, just a recent, he's been appointed by Trudeau. And so the court is,
00:04:27.940 there's no question the Supreme Court is now politicized to an extent that probably never
00:04:32.740 before. Yeah. And you had mentioned in your piece, the story that I just shared on the show a moment
00:04:39.220 ago of him doing an interview. And I mean, the idea of Supreme Court justices doing interviews,
00:04:43.940 I think is problematic for a number of reasons. This is one of them. But he gives his opinion
00:04:48.980 about this issue that like anyone knows is going to end up before him as a case in some form,
00:04:54.500 whether it's someone appealing their criminal charge or whether it's the Emergencies Act going
00:04:59.060 before the Supreme Court. But he's already now put on record that he believes the Freedom Convoy was
00:05:03.380 holding people hostage. So how is he expected to set that aside when he makes an adjudication on the
00:05:09.860 convoy or a case related to it? He can't be expected and he won't. That's the problem. I mean,
00:05:16.020 we've had, what we've had is eight persons arrested for participation in Freedom Convoys
00:05:23.380 and they have served nine years, nine years in jail without parole for something that now has been
00:05:33.140 ruled by a recent judge. It's not even a crime. So where do you think this issue started or when
00:05:42.820 do you think it started? Because I would say that there have probably been, I think that the issues
00:05:47.380 are a lot more explicit and in your face now, but I don't think this is a new phenomenon. I wouldn't
00:05:51.940 even argue, and you may disagree, Gwen, that I wouldn't even argue it started with Justin Trudeau.
00:05:55.940 Well, I don't know. It seems like that's such a long time ago. My friend Stephen Harper wouldn't
00:06:04.100 have had anything like this. So I think that the whole deterioration of the system is consistent
00:06:09.940 with their Trudeau reign and his actions on the Freedom Convoys, on the Emergency Act itself,
00:06:20.020 were now seen to be as unnecessary and possibly illegal.
00:06:23.940 Yeah. And you had mentioned, just to go back to that point we were discussing a few moments ago
00:06:29.300 about, you know, whether this is, you know, whether they're picking up implicit signals,
00:06:33.300 these judges, or getting direct interference. No one seems interested in asking. I mean,
00:06:39.300 that's the lack of curiosity from some of my colleagues in the media about these issues
00:06:43.620 has been quite, maybe not astonishing, but disappointing.
00:06:46.420 Well, one of the things in my column, I spent quite a bit of time with,
00:06:49.940 how the terrible treatment of Tamara Leach, who's an indigenous woman who went to help out with the
00:06:57.140 communications and organization of the convoy, but she never committed a crime. And she has been
00:07:04.340 persecuted continuously. And one of the things, and her case is still going on. She's been, it's still
00:07:11.620 going on today. And the trial will resume soon. And yet this woman has been persecuted beyond reason.
00:07:23.780 And because that can only happen if there's direction from the top.
00:07:30.020 Well, and the thing I would also point out in the case of Tamara Leach is that,
00:07:35.060 like the argument for keeping her behind bars, because she spent, she, I think it was 19 days,
00:07:39.780 she was released and then re-arrested for another 30 days. So I think 49 was the total. I might be,
00:07:44.500 you know, give or take one or two, but she, I mean, she was unvaccinated. She couldn't board a plane.
00:07:49.060 She wasn't a flight risk. She wasn't violent. She wasn't at risk to re-offend because the protest was
00:07:54.660 over, like there was no defensible reason to keep her incarcerated. And especially when you contrast
00:08:00.420 it with all of these catch and release policies that you've alluded to, where people who are
00:08:05.140 re-offending are being just sent out of jail immediately after their arrest.
00:08:10.100 Well, this is a petite woman who, who was charged with committing the offenses of obstructing police
00:08:19.780 officers in danger and endangering the public. This is this little woman. And she was marched to the,
00:08:25.780 to a jail thrown down into a cell where, and then, and then eventually put into another part
00:08:32.260 of the jail system and back and forth and her trial is still going on. She's still being persecuted.
00:08:37.620 And the prosecutor themselves, they said that they want to make a special case to show teacher a
00:08:44.500 lesson. And when that happens, you, how can that otherwise happen without some, if either implicit
00:08:51.140 or explicit interaction? And that's an important point because I ideally, if you are, I mean, yes,
00:08:57.380 sentencing is, is in a, in a roundabout way meant to be a deterrent, but when you're on trial,
00:09:01.860 you want the case to be about you and your conduct and your actions, not you as a symbol for society that
00:09:09.060 the prosecution wants to punish. And they have done that with Tamera and they've been very explicit about
00:09:13.540 that. They don't want to just put her on trial. They want to put the whole convoy on trial through
00:09:17.620 her. Well, I think that's exactly right. And, and, you know, you probably saw that recently,
00:09:23.140 a judge came out and actually ruled that there was no crime committed with a, with a freedom
00:09:28.500 convoy. Yeah. Well, that the, yeah, that it wasn't an emergency, the federal court decision that,
00:09:33.140 you know, basically the entire premise of this national emergency just did not exist. Yeah,
00:09:37.460 no, very, very well said. It was a great piece in C2C journal called the worrisome
00:09:42.500 wave of politicized prosecutions. I don't, I don't think you could hear me when I did my
00:09:46.820 initial introduction, but I said, you were a legend in oil and gas, and I'm grateful for your
00:09:51.220 work at the helm of in Canada, which is neither a Canadian nor called in Canada anymore. So you're
00:09:56.660 a representative of the glory days of that, but Gwyn Morgan, always good to talk to you. Thanks for
00:10:00.260 coming on. Thank you, Andrew. Thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton show. Support the program by
00:10:05.940 donating to true north at www.tnc.news.