Juno News - On C2C： How PCR tests and flawed death counts stoked pandemic fears

00:00:00.000 you're tuned in to the andrew lawton show

00:00:05.920 we're going to be talking with gleb lisik of the c2c journal in just a few moments time here

00:00:14.680 but i just want to talk about this in the context here because he put forward a great essay

00:00:20.240 in c2c journal in which he talked about a simple meat and potato recipe for making a pandemic and

00:00:29.920 he talks about this in basically two main pieces of detail one is the reliance on pcr test you

00:00:37.560 remember pcr test they were all the rage through 2020 and 2021 and kind of into 2022 as well you

00:00:45.200 used to have to do one if you wanted to get back into your own country and also the over reporting

00:00:50.520 of covid death numbers both of these things were crucial pieces of evidence that the government

00:00:57.360 relied on in explaining just how dangerous and dire things were and these things ultimately became

00:01:04.520 the cornerstones of the pandemic narrative that really carried much of the last three years so

00:01:12.040 it's a very thoughtful piece and as i've said on the show it's a bit challenging sometimes when we

00:01:16.420 had to live through this to want to stay in this terrain for so long but i also believe there is

00:01:23.120 generally speaking a sense of justice that people need a lot of folks are not prepared just to live

00:01:28.420 and let live and offer that so-called pandemic amnesty i saw a video from some ostensibly right

00:01:35.780 of center commentator uh today giving an apology for comments he made about unvaccinated people for

00:01:42.200 example earlier in the pandemic and i watched this apology video and i was but it offered no sense of

00:01:48.520 why it was wrong and no sense of why he believed what he believed and what changed now i'm a big

00:01:54.040 believer that if someone is going to go through an evolution in how they think and how they approach

00:01:58.920 an issue we should encourage it and we should welcome it but you've got to show your work and

00:02:03.920 you've got to explain what it is that has actually changed as opposed to just demanding forgiveness

00:02:09.020 because you realize that whatever view you had a year ago or five minutes ago is no longer in vogue

00:02:15.360 with the audience that you have now and i think that's the key thing here whenever anyone's talking

00:02:22.240 about the idea of pandemic amnesty so we'll talk about this in the context of this essay here

00:02:28.480 with gleb lysic who's a c2c contributor and also a researcher and it professional gleb good to talk to

00:02:35.920 you thanks very much for coming on today so i mean you've actually distilled a very complex concept

00:02:42.080 into fairly simple terms here but am i understanding your point correctly that you feel the two sort of

00:02:48.880 big data issues that we saw here came down to the pcr tests and the related but also distinct phenomenon

00:02:56.640 of the death counts yeah that's pretty much was the idea right um the covet waters were very very murky

00:03:06.720 uh and uh there are all all kinds of things that come into equation the uh government response the

00:03:13.040 officials uh the media uh hospitalizations the bands hospital band utilization and stuff like that

00:03:23.280 so so many things so to me it was important to distill this to those

00:03:29.920 uh key concepts that pretty much drove everything else right so we had cases and we had deaths cases would

00:03:39.440 uh estimate the scale of that uh let's call it a disaster right uh and the deaths would estimate

00:03:50.160 the severity everything else was kind of in between or supported by all those numbers

00:03:56.080 so that's why i wanted to uh take all those side components out of the equation and just plug the

00:04:08.320 major numbers in and present them in a way that not only highlight the aspects of this covet pandemic

00:04:18.640 but would also apply to any pandemic going forward because ultimately if we're going to have another

00:04:27.760 one it will be gauged by the same numbers cases and deaths that's it yeah and and i think both are

00:04:35.440 challenging i mean originally cases were the thing that everyone cared about because you know cases were

00:04:41.040 the way you'd measure how widespread something was in in a community and at a certain point when

00:04:47.280 i forget which wave it was i don't know if it was omicron or something when we saw cases just

00:04:52.640 completely swell but deaths continued to be in decline and uh you know the idea of at that time

00:04:58.320 taking anything meaningful of cases when people myself included were testing positive despite having

00:05:04.560 zero symptoms of anything so i mean that is not a meaningful positive result and and whether it's that

00:05:11.280 it's a false positive or your case is so mild that you don't even know you have it to me is not

00:05:18.400 necessarily relevant there but people were still trying to make policy on that and saying well the

00:05:22.800 high cases mean we need to keep mask mandates in place we need to keep x y and z in place

00:05:27.920 yeah you hit uh the nail on the head uh i think it was around uh january 2022 when uh omicron was at its

00:05:38.480 best and the cases were through the roof and people started wondering like why are we really counting

00:05:46.000 those right and how are we counting that and is it the effort and counting that brings up the cases up

00:05:54.240 or is it actually the cases themselves or the disease so it was becoming very apparent and laughable that

00:06:01.840 counting cases the techniques of counting cases they demand for cases or forcing everybody to test

00:06:10.240 was what was driving the case numbers as soon as they stopped counting cases disappeared

00:06:15.840 is your view on the pcr test that it was being used for something that it was never intended to

00:06:25.280 be used for and that the the issues that you've identified were more accidental or or was your view

00:06:31.520 that this was being deliberately used because it would give this number that would then support all

00:06:38.000 of these policies the government wanted to put in i guess the question is was this and it was this

00:06:42.240 something that was a byproduct of a bad policy or was this a policy that was designed in your view to

00:06:47.760 be more manipulative in my personal opinion and again i'm not claiming to be the final instance of

00:06:54.640 everything so everybody can anybody can read the article and make up their own mind i'm not trying to

00:06:59.520 draw any conclusions but since you're asking me personally i think it was a deliberate attempt there's

00:07:05.760 absolutely no way for me how um a medical a science a scientist or expert in uh pcr testing for example or

00:07:17.200 any of the testing of in sort would legitimately authorize pcr to be a clinical diagnostics tool

00:07:26.240 judging from that it was totally inappropriate to use it as a clinical diagnostics tool you can use pcr and

00:07:32.480 a pcr is a great technology right that allows you to let's say estimate the presence of certain

00:07:39.120 pathogen within the population because it's totally probabilistic so you can apply it to masses and come

00:07:46.480 up with a probabilistic estimate of how much of that particular pathogen virus or whatever is present

00:07:52.320 within a certain group of population but when it comes to clinical diagnostic deciding whether a particular

00:07:58.960 person is sick it has a disease it totally fails to do its job because it's a probabilistic tool it's never

00:08:09.440 been designed for clinical diagnostics that's not very it's uh the the very inventor of this technology

00:08:17.120 questioned that um not specifically for covet but for viruses in general right so to me it's absolutely

00:08:25.440 impossible how a medical medically knowledgeable person can make a decision to use pcr for clinical

00:08:35.520 diagnostics which inevitably follows that it was a deliberate attempt to exaggerate cases through

00:08:43.760 misuse of the pcr and i said at the beginning when we look at cases and deaths that the two are are

00:08:51.120 different but they're very related because uh the case that the pcr testing and you know for example

00:08:57.520 you couldn't go to a hospital with a broken leg without getting a covet test meant that all of a

00:09:02.080 sudden people that never would have been tested on their own were getting logged as covet hospitalizations

00:09:08.080 and if something happened where you died we know that there was this issue of people dying with covet

00:09:13.760 versus of covet which messed with the numbers and i mean you had some uh stories in the us where

00:09:19.600 someone you know went in with a motorcycle accident that killed them and they were logged as a covet death

00:09:24.800 because they happen to have covet or something like that and and you had government say oh you know

00:09:29.200 we're trying to do our best to to filter these cases out but the two really are interconnected in the

00:09:34.800 sense that someone gets a pcr test uh someone is a covet case someone dies of something all of a sudden

00:09:41.280 the natural instinct is to log them as a covet death regardless of what killed them yeah uh and i can

00:09:49.360 even share my personal story and i'm sure many people would probably know someone um with whom

00:09:58.080 something similar happened so my wife's aunt in moscow russia right i'm not talking about canada anymore

00:10:04.720 i just it because it's been pretty much all over the world in moscow so my my wife's aunt she was very

00:10:11.920 very um unhealthy individual with tons of various diseases um she was she had difficulties moving

00:10:23.280 around the home the home and um pretty much she needed help from someone else like she could not be on

00:10:31.120 her by herself so finally she she got to the point where she had to be brought into the hospital

00:10:37.600 in 2020 uh for something completely different not not covered at all right she had enough other problems

00:10:45.360 to be worried about so after about a week or two i don't remember exactly but she was finally diagnosed

00:10:53.200 with covet uh basically the test came up positive from which point she got moved from this

00:11:00.800 uh ward whatever she was in into the covet ward and she died there and i handled the story right wow

00:11:10.480 um yeah i have i have other other personal stories to share but this is just an example of what was

00:11:16.720 happening in hospitals people were tested basically daily in 2020 2021 for covet because of the

00:11:25.040 the pcr test nature obviously sooner or later it would give you a positive result which triggers moving

00:11:33.280 the person to a different world where they would be treated uh from from covet or get no treatment at

00:11:42.320 all as as in initial stages of disease uh that was the advice don't do anything pretty much right

00:11:48.720 uh as opposed to being treated from what they suffered from so it was completely mistreatment of

00:11:55.680 the people that got them killed in those covet words i'm not talking about covet treatment i don't want

00:12:04.240 to go in that area yet but that's pretty much the very very common scenario you get moved to the covet

00:12:10.080 ward you know you're not you're you're mistreated and you die and the death certificate says you died from 0.79

00:12:15.920 covet well because the pcr test was positive well sir i mean it's certainly a simple and logical concept

00:12:22.400 you've put forward here gleb you know uh cases plus deaths equals the story of the pandemic but if

00:12:28.720 each of those premises is fraught with its own uh data challenges then we we are seeing exactly what

00:12:34.640 you've described here and what you go into more detail in in your essay in c2c journal making a pandemic

00:12:41.280 a simple meat and potato recipe and again we've only really scratched the surface here but

00:12:45.840 i would encourage people to read that for themselves gleb lysic thank you so much for

00:12:49.520 coming on good to talk to you thank you thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show support the

00:12:54.880 program by donating to true north at www.tnc.news

Juno News - July 22, 2023

On C2C： How PCR tests and flawed death counts stoked pandemic fears

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