Peter MacKay： Canada is risking its relationship with the U.S.
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Summary
In the wake of the latest strikes on Iran by the United States and Israel, Canada's position on the strikes is mixed, depending on which minister is speaking at any given time. In three days, Canada has gone from endorsing military action to calling for a ceasefire. Peter McKay, who served as Defense Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister in the Harper government, joins the show to discuss the developments.
Transcript
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From the White House today, U.S. President Trump says most of Iran's military has been
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They have no Air Force that's been knocked out.
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They have no air detection that's been knocked out.
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Meantime, Ottawa's position on the U.S.-Israeli strikes on Iran is mixed,
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depending on which government minister is speaking at any given time.
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After the attacks began February 28, the Kearney government was firm in supporting the attack,
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Canada supports the United States acting to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon
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and to prevent its regime from further threatening international peace and security.
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The left-leaning Toronto Star was taken aback and responded with this headline,
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Trump and Netanyahu have made a dangerous gamble in Iran. Why is Carney cheering them on?
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It wasn't long before Foreign Affairs Minister Anita Anand shifted somewhat,
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saying Canada supports the mission but prefers a diplomatic solution.
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We prefer a diplomatic solution. This is why I have spent the last two days
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speaking with my counterparts across the Middle East and in the Gulf states,
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from Jordan to Qatar to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to UAE and all of my G7 counterparts
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stressing that Canada believes in a diplomatic and peaceful solution.
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And as soon as possible, we would like parties to get to the table.
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What followed that was a further shifting away from the original support for the mission
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with Defense Minister David McGinty calling for an end to hostilities.
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The Prime Minister and the government decided from the beginning of this
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But we're also calling for a diplomatic end to it.
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We very much would prefer to see peace at a ceasefire.
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That's what my colleague, Minister Anand, is driving forward now with her colleagues around the world.
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Well, either you support the mission or you don't.
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And in three days, Canada has gone from endorsing military action to calling for a ceasefire.
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Adding to the confusion is Prime Minister Carney coming out again and restating his original position.
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Canada supports the United States acting to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon
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and to prevent its regime from further threatening international peace and security.
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And the Canadian government urges the protection of all civilians in this conflict.
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its position on the conflict happens to have flipped in lockstep with that of China
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because the Chinese Foreign Ministry issued this statement.
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China urges all parties to immediately cease military operations
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and avoid escalating tensions and safeguard the safety of the navigation in the Strait of Hormuz.
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who served as Defense Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister in the Harper government.
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Now, these events in Iran have hit close to home for you
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because, of course, your wife, Nazanin, was born in Tehran the year of the hostage crisis, 1979.
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She's been a prominent human rights activist and author and public speaker.
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And maybe you're privy to some things happening in Iran that many of us are not.
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As you would expect, this hits her very personally.
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she has spent most of her adult life advocating for democracy and human rights inside Iran.
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She still has family there. She has many contacts on the ground. So the events of the last 72 hours
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have been stunning in terms of the sea of change that this may represent. Now, there are still a
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lot of uncertainties, to say the least. And, you know, as we speak, the bombs are still falling
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over parts of Iran, including, and this is something that is just broken within the last
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few hours, a gathering of an executive that was assembled to determine who would replace
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the now deceased Ayatollah Khomeini, the head of the IRGC and other senior IRGC leaders,
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they were gathering in a secret location outside Tehran, and they have just been
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also eliminated, 88 in total. And so this, you know, not to sound inhumane, but this clears the
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path for an even greater opportunity, not for regime change, but for the people of Iran to
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decide their future, for them to have hopefully free and fair elections. And I don't want to get
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ahead of ourselves in wishful thinking, but that is obviously the end game. And the last thing I'll
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say is, you know, the elimination of this murderous regime with oceans of blood on their hands over
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the last 47 years has to be seen as a positive turn of events, not just for the people of Iran,
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but for the entire region and arguably the entire world. They are, of course, state sponsors of
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terrorism. They have been involved in numerous activities, backing groups like Hamas, Hezbollah,
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the Houthis, and others that have taken the lives of Western allies. And they've been involved in
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foreign interference right here in our own country and intimidation. So this is a bad, bad bunch of
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people. And, you know, the means we can quibble about, but their removal from power is a good
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thing. The world is a better place without them. And I guess the next step is tricky. I mean,
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that bunch may be gone, but how do you replace them with people who are like your wife and
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yourself, pro-democracy, who want free and fair elections and things like free speech,
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things that we enjoy in Canada? That's a very delicate, tricky process, isn't it?
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are you privy to the future in terms of the movement towards a more of a liberal democracy
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in Iran? Yeah, that's the quintessential question, isn't it, Mark? And I cannot and will not speak
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for my wife. Of course, we have lots of discussions and have for years about this moment.
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But what I can say, and it's public knowledge, is that there have been groups that have been
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gathering. And by groups, I mean mostly Iranians from various different parts of the diaspora,
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because it is not a monolithic group. It is not just Persian. It's Iranian and involving,
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you know, Kurds, Baloch, others, other ethnic groups. They have been coming together to discuss
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what that future looks like, how it can be an inclusive, peaceful, democratic movement inside
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the country. And I emphasize the inside the country because I think you would see many in
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the diaspora return. There are some 400,000 plus in Canada, but around the world, not unlike other
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terrible dictatorships, tyrannical dictatorships, as we saw in Venezuela, I think there were over
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2 million, maybe more, who had left the country. And that's a common occurrence. So all of that
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to say there are some very able academics, lawyers, human rights advocates, community-minded people
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who want to be part of the reclamation of their country. Going back is one addition of
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intellectual firepower, but there are still many people on the ground. Although,
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tragically, I have to add, you know, thousands, literally tens, possibly hundreds of thousands
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have been, you know, killed, wounded, arrested, eliminated from the possibility to contribute to
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the greatness of Iran. And Iran, as you would know, was very much a Western oriented country,
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not without its flaws, not, you know, it was, it was a monarchy, but they were a formidable country,
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a formidable country and have produced some of the, you know, the top scientists, medical people,
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researchers. If you go to many of the universities in Western countries, you will find
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that the top students in many cases are of Iranian descent.
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So I can take by your comments that you favor the actions by the U.S. and Israeli military
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to take out that country's ability to get nukes, develop a nuclear program, as well as
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even though they're not coming out and saying they want regime change, being explicit about it,
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they're clearly targeting the leadership. So they want leadership change. I take it you think this
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is a positive thing moving forward, correct? Yes, I do, Mark, and I think many share that
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sense of it. Many don't want to perhaps talk about it as bluntly, maybe, as you and I are,
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and we do have the benefit of not being in elected office where these decisions are tough.
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But I know that Canada has been outwardly supportive, at least from the Prime Minister's
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office, and the leader of the official opposition has voiced support. Most and many countries
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have, in fact, for some of the very reasons that we're discussing, because of the external threat,
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nuclear weapons, but also fostering terrorism. And, you know, the chant of death to America
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extends well beyond just the borders of the United States. It includes really all Western
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countries. And so that military action, while some may feel was without congressional support
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and without a United Nations sanction like we had in Afghanistan, but it has achieved a historic
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outcome and has paved the path for the Iranian people to, as I said, reclaim their country,
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pursue democracy, and not be the force for evil that we have seen emanating from that country for
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decades. Now, the Prime Minister has, to your point, expressed support for the mission. However,
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we are getting some, I want to say, mixed messages from the Liberal government. We have Anita Anand,
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the Foreign Affairs Minister, who has shifted saying, Canada supports the mission, but prefers
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a diplomatic solution. And then we've had Defense Minister McGinty call for an end to hostilities
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and a ceasefire. So what do you make of this? We're getting kind of three separate streams
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of messaging from the government. Yeah, it's unfortunate. And I think it does portray a lack
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of discipline in terms of messaging on a very sensitive, very sensitive issue. It also has the
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added knock-on effect of probably irritating the White House even further as if we need to do that
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anymore. And I can't quite understand how it could happen from, you know, two very seasoned
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politicians, at least those that have been close to the prime minister and hold high office.
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I mean, ceasing hostilities cannot and will not happen.
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They have now sort of kicked the proverbial hornet's nest.
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And until such time as they know that the people of Iran, who the president has called
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to take to the streets again and take the necessary internal actions to ensure that
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the regime doesn't just, you know, remorph itself and come back in some other tyrannical form,
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it would be folly to suggest that we should stop now, in my opinion. And I'm not sure what the
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foreign minister is getting at either when they're essentially saying, you know, it's time to step
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back. I completely understand and echo the sentiment that we don't want to see civilians
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harmed. That is the last outcome that anyone wants, although there's also a clear-eyed realism
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that when you're dropping ordinances, this can and likely will happen. We also know the IRGC
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are now assembling in schools for future meetings, the same way we saw Hamas use public
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buildings and schools and hospitals for the very purpose of using their citizens as human shields
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and then condemning, you know, the Western Satan for having caused civilian harm.
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So it's enormously complicated, to say the least.
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It is a challenging time, but clear communication from our government
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is something I think our citizens should expect.
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And, you know, on the point of how this will be interpreted in Washington,
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I mean, much like taking a contrary position on the Palestinians,
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you know, speeches in Davos, we're not going to buy the F-35, all of this is creating a narrative
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that isn't going to help us in June when we finally sit down and try to negotiate the most
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important trade and economic impact on our country. Yeah, I think I take your point about
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stopping hostilities now would quite possibly allow the same regime to get back on its feet
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and continue massacrating their own people
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and its mission to destroy Israel and the West.
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Now, I tend to agree with you completely on that.
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But from Canada's perspective, if I also heard you correctly,
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calling for an end to hostilities and the ceasefire
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might aggravate our relations with the United States,
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especially at a time when we're trying to restart trade negotiations with that country what do you
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think of that yeah i think that's right i think we're saying much the same thing mark it's uh
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that that isn't you know the first and only consideration but those are two very important
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ones you know not the least of which um as the old saying goes once you've broke it you own it
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and and the united states and israel have surely broken the regime or at least badly wounded them
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Which also makes them dangerous, as we're seeing. They're launching rockets and ballistic missiles into neighboring countries, Middle Eastern countries, who were formerly, they thought, their allies, or at least, you know, they had allegiances.
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and the entire region, and this is something to be conscious of,
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it could broaden into a wider regional conflict if this isn't handled correctly
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and limited to these targeted strikes that Israel and the United States are working to achieve.
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And so that's, I think, job one, to finish what they've started
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and create the circumstances for the Iranian people to take control of their country.
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And you have, you know, the former crown prince or the crown prince, son of the former Shah, Reza Pallavi,
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who is positioning himself as a transitional leader.
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You have others who I think are also working towards achieving that end as a step to, you know,
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a democratic election within that country. Again, that may be a step that seems too far at this
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point to even discuss, but we have to discuss that. I think the international community needs
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to be supportive. But, you know, we also, as always, have interests and a stake in how we,
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Canada, positions itself and how that is interpreted by our most important trading ally.
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And, you know, again, my opinion, I speak for no one but myself here, we're not going to replace that amount of trade or that historic relationship with China, India or anyone else.
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important nonetheless, different relationship, different set of values, different history with
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those countries. But it's, again, folly to suggest that we are simply going to pull back from the
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United States and achieve the same degree of economic security and, quite frankly, familiar
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relations that we have had with the United States over the entire history of our country.
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Do you favor any kind of active role for Canada's military in this conflict
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or perhaps the rebuilding effort that happens after that?
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I mean, it's not a dodge, but we haven't been asked.
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or even assets that would be available to assist.
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But rebuilding possibly, you know, on a humanitarian side,
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which is delivered by military in most instances,
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you know there is a role that canada could play if if asked i don't expect that we will be asked
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but uh nevertheless it is something that i think canadians quite frankly are very good
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at in the reconstruction phase uh we you know have formally had relations uh with with iran
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pre-1979 and we have a large iranian diaspora in canada who i'm sure are very anxious about
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their families and friends inside inside the country i know my wife is and you know hopefully
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uh after the fact and when the hostilities have ceased canada can step up as we have historically
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in the past and help. Peter McKay, thank you so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate
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it. It's my pleasure, Mark. Thanks for having me on. Peter McKay. And if you enjoyed this program,
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