Juno News - September 28, 2026


Peter MacKay: Canadians deserve to see the failed trade deal

Mentioned
Could the B.C. election be David Eby’s biggest blunder?

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Length

18 minutes

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158.81

Word count

2,882

Sentence count

58

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1

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Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Well, Prime Minister Carney says he welcomes a return to the trade negotiating table,
00:00:11.000 but only when the Americans are really ready.
00:00:14.000 Now, it's the Americans who insist it was the Canadian side that walked away from a deal at the last minute,
00:00:21.000 and that runs counter to the version we're getting from Prime Minister Carney,
00:00:26.000 who claims it was the Americans who made last-minute changes.
00:00:29.000 Who do we believe?
00:00:31.020 Maybe it starts with showing Canadians the deal that we walked away from.
00:00:35.560 Our guest today is Peter McKay, lawyer, businessman, and former cabinet minister.
00:00:40.460 Welcome, Peter.
00:00:42.460 Thank you, Mark.
00:00:43.460 It's great to be with you again.
00:00:44.460 Great to be with you as well.
00:00:45.460 Let's have a listen to what Howard Letnick, the Commerce Secretary, had to say.
00:00:52.360 I spoke to Mark Carney twice because I've known Mark Carney for decades, and we had
00:00:57.320 texting back and forth there was nothing new when you're signing the deal at seven o'clock there's
00:01:02.840 nothing there's nothing new at four o'clock and they called me and they said hey we'd like medium
00:01:08.360 and heavy trucks right this is not an f-150 that you and i might drive this is an f-450 that's got
00:01:15.400 like four wheels on the back and and that would have cost america billions and billions of dollars
00:01:20.940 and they just and i said really why are you saying the words heavy trucks friday at four o'clock when
00:01:26.080 You've never said it before.
00:01:27.780 And they sort of looked at the ground.
00:01:29.900 They were trying to blow it up for these political reasons.
00:01:33.580 You're watching them play politics in Canada, and they're just using us.
00:01:38.860 In fact, in one version, Lutnik said he said,
00:01:42.300 are you trying to blow this up?
00:01:43.500 And somebody, whom he claims was a minister, said,
00:01:47.320 I am not allowed to say that.
00:01:49.040 But let's listen to what the prime minister said in response to what Lutnik just said.
00:01:54.200 I don't think, with all respect, appointed, unelected cabinet members in the United States are experts on Canadian politics.
00:02:05.020 Well, since when do you have to be an expert in Canadian politics to understand negotiations?
00:02:10.860 Peter, you've heard both sides setting aside partisan views.
00:02:15.180 Who do you think is telling the truth here?
00:02:18.700 Well, Mark, let me put it this way.
00:02:20.680 the only way we're ever going to know the truth and i'm not taking anybody's word for it for a
00:02:26.360 deal that i haven't seen is to release the actual text which we know exists and and the most direct
00:02:33.800 way to do that in my opinion and based on my experience is to bring back parliament
00:02:38.760 that would be the solution that would be the most transparent way to to demonstrate to canadians
00:02:44.680 what was what was the deal what what did we walk away from because i think uh and i don't think
00:02:51.480 i'm i'm taking uh an unfair view of this that everyone does agree that it was the canadians
00:02:57.000 that walked away it's the why did they walk away that i guess is being disputed but i'll also say
00:03:03.880 you know the blame game of who said what to who and you know doing the exact opposite of of what
00:03:10.840 the government said they wouldn't do and that was to negotiate in public well now it's a name game
00:03:16.360 in public and it changed the name game you know when it comes to uh lake ontario but that that
00:03:22.200 doesn't get us anywhere it both sides are saying and the most generous interpretation of this is
00:03:28.360 you know there is good reason to get you know my interpretation there's good reason to get back to
00:03:33.160 the table because if they were that close at the 11th hour uh why aren't we getting back to
00:03:40.520 negotiating well the prime minister says the americans are not serious and that you know
00:03:45.000 people are doing memes about them well you know that that's going to happen um that's that's the
00:03:50.920 way sadly things are uh are happening online but there's too much at stake mark there's just
00:03:57.400 absolutely too much at stake when it comes to our economy the impact on certain sectors not the
00:04:06.360 least of which is the auto sector but steel lumber aluminum many other products and the last thing
00:04:13.960 i'll say just to to emphasize that point is you know we are going to put tariffs on the americans
00:04:21.240 next week, you know, in retaliation. That, to me, is only going to drive the parties even further
00:04:27.700 apart. I know everybody is now, you know, whipped into a frenzy again, and the elbows up, you know,
00:04:34.440 retort has returned. But, you know, if this thing is stalled and off the rails until Christmas,
00:04:41.320 this is going to really devastate the Canadian economy. And it pains me to say that, and pains
00:04:49.060 me to say that the american economy which is clearly much much larger has much greater ability
00:04:55.060 to absorb the body blows that are coming uh to their economy as well but if we think we can
00:05:02.740 outlast them and we can out tariff them and the prime minister himself has said you know in a
00:05:08.120 nutshell taxes are paid for by consumers by canadians so jacking up the price of american
00:05:15.300 products at a time when this affordability crisis is at an all-time high, at least in recent memory,
00:05:22.840 this is going to make for a very, very difficult fall for parents, seniors, people who are already
00:05:30.760 on the margins of meeting their monthly bills. It's going to be ugly.
00:05:37.340 And it may have already started with the jobs report that we got just today. I think we lost
00:05:43.940 something like 40 odd thousand positions 42 000 jobs yeah that that's a while the americans
00:05:52.580 americans added 160 000 so we know mark you know just on that point alone yeah there are companies
00:06:00.020 and i i'm talking to to a number of companies you you are in contact with a lot of people in ontario
00:06:06.180 i'm out here on the east coast there are companies very reluctantly i'm quick to add
00:06:11.060 very reluctantly but looking at moving to the united states how ironic you know how how completely
00:06:18.260 perverse that we'd we'd lose good canadian companies to the americans as a result of this
00:06:23.540 trade dispute yeah we're losing skilled tradesmen as well with a thousand uh heading for the border
00:06:30.980 young people by the way uh between ages 25 and 40 many of them are couples young couples young
00:06:38.020 family saying i can't do this anymore i've got a skill that i can market to the americans i'm uh
00:06:43.140 i'm going to vote with my feet but and that's the that's this affordability crisis that was there
00:06:48.980 even before this dispute you know exploded and uh and brought us to this place and you know you
00:06:56.580 you cautioned me at the outset not to be partisan this is not meant to be partisan it's it's fact
00:07:01.220 not feelings right the prime minister was elected almost solely on one mandate get a deal
00:07:08.980 you know i i'm a harvard educated oxford man bank of england bank of canada i've dealt with people
00:07:16.840 like donald trump i'll get a deal now i i would rebut my own assertion by saying who could get a
00:07:23.100 deal with this president but only one guy promised it in the midst of an election or a leadership
00:07:29.960 contest one guy said he would do it true that's right i mean he didn't promise to try to get a
00:07:35.720 deal he promised to get a deal and a winning deal at that uh a man in a crisis i'm only good in a
00:07:43.220 crisis he said well yes yeah this is he his words he's calling it a war it's not a war you know
00:07:49.900 this is a major economic crisis um and it's not it's cold comfort but we've been through wars
00:07:57.780 And therefore, we've been through worse.
00:07:59.980 But this is a slow burn right now that is going to hurt a lot of people here in Fortress North America.
00:08:06.000 And, you know, just to look ahead, that's where we should be really focusing our attention beyond the trade deal is building Fortress North America.
00:08:17.400 I've heard others assert that case and whether it's security, you know, our environmental protections, certainly our economy.
00:08:27.020 you know, doing what we have to do in the Arctic. That's a North American approach that's needed.
00:08:35.200 And by the way, in the midst and lost in all of this rhetoric is the fact that we have a very
00:08:39.880 strong foundation upon which to build, particularly amongst our security forces and the security
00:08:46.980 apparatus that exists in North America through NORAD. Yes, of course, through NATO. But the work
00:08:52.120 that needs to be done in the Arctic, I would say, is near the top of the list on fortifying
00:08:57.220 this continent. Yeah, absolutely. Would you call on the Americans to release the transcript
00:09:03.040 of that trade deal like they did with the bridge agreement? If you'll recall,
00:09:07.940 we got one story, one version from the prime minister suggesting that no, that the revenue
00:09:14.960 share would only really begin after the debt was paid. And then it was the Americans through a
00:09:20.900 release to a publication south of the border that revealed that that was not true. Could we see a
00:09:29.000 repeat of that with the Americans saying, okay, well, if your government in Canada is not going
00:09:33.400 to release a transcript of the deal, here it is. Here's what your government walked away from.
00:09:38.180 Would you suggest that would be a positive move? Sure. Why not? Why not? You know, I fear that in
00:09:45.940 this uh fog of a trade dispute and and the cynicism that it has brought about or or built upon a lot
00:09:53.900 of people would say well they'll release an altered copy i mean where where do you go for truth
00:10:00.240 but somebody shouldn't release it because canadians deserve to know what was in the agreement
00:10:07.540 why did we walk away and and what are the costs going to be for doing so you know but i i come
00:10:14.740 back to i mean it's it's not a it's not an original idea but bring back parliament you know
00:10:19.940 let let a committee see call the ambassador call janice charette call dominic leblanc call the
00:10:26.100 prime minister tell us what happened you know there's there's so much at stake and uh you know
00:10:34.420 just cheering from the cheap seats and saying you know yes keep going you know we'll hit them dollar
00:10:40.660 for dollar it's like encouraging your your friend to go outside and wrestle with a bear my goodness
00:10:46.480 that's a courageous thing to do and then the bear eats you and that's what's going to happen
00:10:51.900 but given the americans view that it was us who walked away and i think that's the generally
00:10:59.940 accepted view even though it was the canadians said well they you know came up with last minute
00:11:05.560 things. And, you know, they wanted to interfere with our sovereign rights to negotiate other
00:11:10.900 deals. And they were going after the French language, you know, targeting our right to
00:11:15.540 protect culture in Canada, all of the stuff that they threw in the box. But given that the Americans
00:11:21.280 now are upset with us saying they used us for political reasons to walk away and won a few
00:11:29.440 by-elections, I guess, shortly after that. So maybe it justifies the means, I don't know,
00:11:36.460 politically. But how quick will they be to get back to the bargaining table, given what they
00:11:41.980 have said about us in the last week or so around the reasons why we walked away?
00:11:49.240 Well, Mark, it certainly doesn't bode well. And not to repeat what you've just said, but I mean,
00:11:54.760 the the allegations going back and forth put the you know the silly name calling and and insults
00:12:00.320 to the canadian forces aside for a moment but some of what canada and seemingly the prime minister
00:12:07.820 have asserted are demonstrably false you know saying that the sovereignty of canada was at risk
00:12:14.200 because we were being told we couldn't negotiate with um you know non-free economy countries well
00:12:21.560 talking about china let's be clear um that already exists in the current kuzma agreement
00:12:29.160 that that would trigger the the opportunity for the united states to say well we're we're pulling
00:12:34.680 back because we're not going to tolerate canadian goods or sorry chinese goods or other uh you know
00:12:41.720 non-free economy goods coming into our country through canada so that that whole discussion was
00:12:46.760 already hashed out and so saying that that was new not true the americans adamantly deny that
00:12:52.920 the whole issue around french language being you know threatened um is not true that that
00:12:58.760 that just simply wasn't something that they asserted at all i think james and greer laid
00:13:03.400 that to rest and so you know we could pick apart what is a very complicated deal and by the way
00:13:10.280 this isn't this isn't the end of kuzma you know the the invoking of tariffs and putting more
00:13:16.760 taxation on citizens on both sides of the border on certain sectors doesn't signal the end of of
00:13:23.000 the kuzma agreement we need to be clear the other thing that i found quite stunning was
00:13:28.920 the american assertion that you know at the end of the day this deal that they were putting forward
00:13:34.200 um was going to give canada more advantageous access to their economy than any other country
00:13:42.240 on the planet i'd like to see that yes you know and and if that is the case even if it means that
00:13:49.300 there were reduced tariffs or that there were certain issues that still had to be settled
00:13:54.320 supply management among them then you know why was that turned down you know what concessions
00:14:02.440 did Canada what further concessions let's put it that way did Canada have to make bring back
00:14:08.800 Parliament have a committee let let those who were in the room answer those critically important
00:14:15.860 questions another little sidebar to this I don't know how much longer Canada writ large the prime
00:14:23.900 minister the liberal government is going to be able to contain uh the premiers and and the
00:14:28.940 provincial interests in all of this i mean liquor sales are are really in the grand scheme of
00:14:35.400 things not a huge economic driver but you know there's a reluctance on the part of the premiers
00:14:42.120 and and in some sectors it's going to bite more than others autos in in uh in the case of ontario
00:14:48.920 aluminum ontario and aluminum steel ontario and and quebec so the longer that this dispute
00:14:58.020 rolls on and certain provinces are going to be disproportionately hurt by the status quo and
00:15:08.460 and further tariffs you know like we know what's going to happen are we put more tariffs on next
00:15:13.140 week they put more on you know probably the next day because they're bracing themselves for this
00:15:18.640 and it's look in a word it's not sustainable it's not sustainable in the current status
00:15:27.500 yeah we got a couple minutes left i know you have to run and i don't i don't want to keep
00:15:32.540 you too long do you think doug ford torpedoed the deal
00:15:35.800 i don't want to believe that either um but i also know that there's a history here you know
00:15:46.460 the running of the reagan ad at a critical juncture yes maybe didn't torpedo but sure
00:15:51.320 didn't help um was the prime minister aware of it don't know but yeah look uh i know doug ford 0.85
00:16:01.000 like him um telling anybody in the midst of a heated exchange such as this to kiss your posterior
00:16:09.200 it's you know it's it's funny at a at a party or in a bar but you know to say it publicly to the
00:16:15.960 world um a guy with a gargantuan ego who's a narcissist who is mercurial but is let's let's
00:16:25.040 be pretty frank and clear-eyed about it he's pulling the levers in the united states that
00:16:29.900 affect us in a significant way and it's an overused expression but you know poking them
00:16:36.080 sticking them in the eye where does it get you feels good all of this you know feels good and
00:16:43.140 they're picking on us and uh you know all the the memes and and the jokes aside you know come
00:16:51.100 christmas we we are going to be in a pretty tough place and there's a lot of really vulnerable
00:16:57.280 businesses and citizens that my heart goes out to um those vulnerable industries and people
00:17:02.860 i don't think are are amused by some of these exchanges that are going on publicly
00:17:09.640 Yeah, it's schoolyard stuff.
00:17:11.700 Doesn't help.
00:17:13.020 Peter, thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:17:15.080 Great to chat with you once again.
00:17:17.260 You too, Mark.
00:17:17.840 Peter McKay.
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00:17:30.180 Thank you so much for tuning in.
00:17:31.420 We'll see you next time.
00:17:38.900 Thank you.