Juno News - September 28, 2026


Peter MacKay： Canadians deserve to see the failed trade deal

Mentioned
Mark Carney Peter McKay Doug Ford Lutnik Howard Lutnick Donald Trump
Chinese bounty controversy follows Paul Chiang into Markham council race Canada supplanted as America’s potash supplier？

Episode Stats


Length

18 minutes

Words per minute

158.81

Word count

2,882

Sentence count

66

Harmful content

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00 Well, Prime Minister Carney says he welcomes a return to the trade negotiating table,
00:00:11 but only when the Americans are really ready.
00:00:14 Now, it's the Americans who insist it was the Canadian side that walked away from a deal at the last minute,
00:00:21 and that runs counter to the version we're getting from Prime Minister Carney,
00:00:26 who claims it was the Americans who made last-minute changes.
00:00:29 Who do we believe?
00:00:31 Maybe it starts with showing Canadians the deal that we walked away from.
00:00:35 Our guest today is Peter McKay, lawyer, businessman, and former cabinet minister.
00:00:40 Welcome, Peter.
00:00:42 Thank you, Mark.
00:00:43 It's great to be with you again.
00:00:44 Great to be with you as well.
00:00:45 Let's have a listen to what Howard Letnick, the Commerce Secretary, had to say.
00:00:52 I spoke to Mark Carney twice because I've known Mark Carney for decades, and we had
00:00:57 texting back and forth there was nothing new when you're signing the deal at seven o'clock there's
00:01:02 nothing there's nothing new at four o'clock and they called me and they said hey we'd like medium
00:01:08 and heavy trucks right this is not an f-150 that you and i might drive this is an f-450 that's got
00:01:15 like four wheels on the back and and that would have cost america billions and billions of dollars
00:01:20 and they just and i said really why are you saying the words heavy trucks friday at four o'clock when
00:01:26 You've never said it before.
00:01:27 And they sort of looked at the ground.
00:01:29 They were trying to blow it up for these political reasons.
00:01:33 You're watching them play politics in Canada, and they're just using us.
00:01:38 In fact, in one version, Lutnik said he said,
00:01:42 are you trying to blow this up?
00:01:43 And somebody, whom he claims was a minister, said,
00:01:47 I am not allowed to say that.
00:01:49 But let's listen to what the prime minister said in response to what Lutnik just said.
00:01:54 I don't think, with all respect, appointed, unelected cabinet members in the United States are experts on Canadian politics.
00:02:05 Well, since when do you have to be an expert in Canadian politics to understand negotiations?
00:02:10 Peter, you've heard both sides setting aside partisan views.
00:02:15 Who do you think is telling the truth here?
00:02:18 Well, Mark, let me put it this way.
00:02:20 the only way we're ever going to know the truth and i'm not taking anybody's word for it for a
00:02:26 deal that i haven't seen is to release the actual text which we know exists and and the most direct
00:02:33 way to do that in my opinion and based on my experience is to bring back parliament
00:02:38 that would be the solution that would be the most transparent way to to demonstrate to canadians
00:02:44 what was what was the deal what what did we walk away from because i think uh and i don't think
00:02:51 i'm i'm taking uh an unfair view of this that everyone does agree that it was the canadians
00:02:57 that walked away it's the why did they walk away that i guess is being disputed but i'll also say
00:03:03 you know the blame game of who said what to who and you know doing the exact opposite of of what
00:03:10 the government said they wouldn't do and that was to negotiate in public well now it's a name game
00:03:16 in public and it changed the name game you know when it comes to uh lake ontario but that that
00:03:22 doesn't get us anywhere it both sides are saying and the most generous interpretation of this is
00:03:28 you know there is good reason to get you know my interpretation there's good reason to get back to
00:03:33 the table because if they were that close at the 11th hour uh why aren't we getting back to
00:03:40 negotiating well the prime minister says the americans are not serious and that you know
00:03:45 people are doing memes about them well you know that that's going to happen um that's that's the
00:03:50 way sadly things are uh are happening online but there's too much at stake mark there's just
00:03:57 absolutely too much at stake when it comes to our economy the impact on certain sectors not the
00:04:06 least of which is the auto sector but steel lumber aluminum many other products and the last thing
00:04:13 i'll say just to to emphasize that point is you know we are going to put tariffs on the americans
00:04:21 next week, you know, in retaliation. That, to me, is only going to drive the parties even further
00:04:27 apart. I know everybody is now, you know, whipped into a frenzy again, and the elbows up, you know,
00:04:34 retort has returned. But, you know, if this thing is stalled and off the rails until Christmas,
00:04:41 this is going to really devastate the Canadian economy. And it pains me to say that, and pains
00:04:49 me to say that the american economy which is clearly much much larger has much greater ability
00:04:55 to absorb the body blows that are coming uh to their economy as well but if we think we can
00:05:02 outlast them and we can out tariff them and the prime minister himself has said you know in a
00:05:08 nutshell taxes are paid for by consumers by canadians so jacking up the price of american
00:05:15 products at a time when this affordability crisis is at an all-time high, at least in recent memory,
00:05:22 this is going to make for a very, very difficult fall for parents, seniors, people who are already
00:05:30 on the margins of meeting their monthly bills. It's going to be ugly.
00:05:37 And it may have already started with the jobs report that we got just today. I think we lost
00:05:43 something like 40 odd thousand positions 42 000 jobs yeah that that's a while the americans
00:05:52 americans added 160 000 so we know mark you know just on that point alone yeah there are companies
00:06:00 and i i'm talking to to a number of companies you you are in contact with a lot of people in ontario
00:06:06 i'm out here on the east coast there are companies very reluctantly i'm quick to add
00:06:11 very reluctantly but looking at moving to the united states how ironic you know how how completely
00:06:18 perverse that we'd we'd lose good canadian companies to the americans as a result of this
00:06:23 trade dispute yeah we're losing skilled tradesmen as well with a thousand uh heading for the border
00:06:30 young people by the way uh between ages 25 and 40 many of them are couples young couples young
00:06:38 family saying i can't do this anymore i've got a skill that i can market to the americans i'm uh
00:06:43 i'm going to vote with my feet but and that's the that's this affordability crisis that was there
00:06:48 even before this dispute you know exploded and uh and brought us to this place and you know you
00:06:56 you cautioned me at the outset not to be partisan this is not meant to be partisan it's it's fact
00:07:01 not feelings right the prime minister was elected almost solely on one mandate get a deal
00:07:08 you know i i'm a harvard educated oxford man bank of england bank of canada i've dealt with people
00:07:16 like donald trump i'll get a deal now i i would rebut my own assertion by saying who could get a
00:07:23 deal with this president but only one guy promised it in the midst of an election or a leadership
00:07:29 contest one guy said he would do it true that's right i mean he didn't promise to try to get a
00:07:35 deal he promised to get a deal and a winning deal at that uh a man in a crisis i'm only good in a
00:07:43 crisis he said well yes yeah this is he his words he's calling it a war it's not a war you know
00:07:49 this is a major economic crisis um and it's not it's cold comfort but we've been through wars
00:07:57 And therefore, we've been through worse.
00:07:59 But this is a slow burn right now that is going to hurt a lot of people here in Fortress North America.
00:08:06 And, you know, just to look ahead, that's where we should be really focusing our attention beyond the trade deal is building Fortress North America.
00:08:17 I've heard others assert that case and whether it's security, you know, our environmental protections, certainly our economy.
00:08:27 you know, doing what we have to do in the Arctic. That's a North American approach that's needed.
00:08:35 And by the way, in the midst and lost in all of this rhetoric is the fact that we have a very
00:08:39 strong foundation upon which to build, particularly amongst our security forces and the security
00:08:46 apparatus that exists in North America through NORAD. Yes, of course, through NATO. But the work
00:08:52 that needs to be done in the Arctic, I would say, is near the top of the list on fortifying
00:08:57 this continent. Yeah, absolutely. Would you call on the Americans to release the transcript
00:09:03 of that trade deal like they did with the bridge agreement? If you'll recall,
00:09:07 we got one story, one version from the prime minister suggesting that no, that the revenue
00:09:14 share would only really begin after the debt was paid. And then it was the Americans through a
00:09:20 release to a publication south of the border that revealed that that was not true. Could we see a
00:09:29 repeat of that with the Americans saying, okay, well, if your government in Canada is not going
00:09:33 to release a transcript of the deal, here it is. Here's what your government walked away from.
00:09:38 Would you suggest that would be a positive move? Sure. Why not? Why not? You know, I fear that in
00:09:45 this uh fog of a trade dispute and and the cynicism that it has brought about or or built upon a lot
00:09:53 of people would say well they'll release an altered copy i mean where where do you go for truth
00:10:00 but somebody shouldn't release it because canadians deserve to know what was in the agreement
00:10:07 why did we walk away and and what are the costs going to be for doing so you know but i i come
00:10:14 back to i mean it's it's not a it's not an original idea but bring back parliament you know
00:10:19 let let a committee see call the ambassador call janice charette call dominic leblanc call the
00:10:26 prime minister tell us what happened you know there's there's so much at stake and uh you know
00:10:34 just cheering from the cheap seats and saying you know yes keep going you know we'll hit them dollar
00:10:40 for dollar it's like encouraging your your friend to go outside and wrestle with a bear my goodness
00:10:46 that's a courageous thing to do and then the bear eats you and that's what's going to happen
00:10:51 but given the americans view that it was us who walked away and i think that's the generally
00:10:59 accepted view even though it was the canadians said well they you know came up with last minute
00:11:05 things. And, you know, they wanted to interfere with our sovereign rights to negotiate other
00:11:10 deals. And they were going after the French language, you know, targeting our right to
00:11:15 protect culture in Canada, all of the stuff that they threw in the box. But given that the Americans
00:11:21 now are upset with us saying they used us for political reasons to walk away and won a few
00:11:29 by-elections, I guess, shortly after that. So maybe it justifies the means, I don't know,
00:11:36 politically. But how quick will they be to get back to the bargaining table, given what they
00:11:41 have said about us in the last week or so around the reasons why we walked away?
00:11:49 Well, Mark, it certainly doesn't bode well. And not to repeat what you've just said, but I mean,
00:11:54 the the allegations going back and forth put the you know the silly name calling and and insults
00:12:00 to the canadian forces aside for a moment but some of what canada and seemingly the prime minister
00:12:07 have asserted are demonstrably false you know saying that the sovereignty of canada was at risk
00:12:14 because we were being told we couldn't negotiate with um you know non-free economy countries well
00:12:21 talking about china let's be clear um that already exists in the current kuzma agreement
00:12:29 that that would trigger the the opportunity for the united states to say well we're we're pulling
00:12:34 back because we're not going to tolerate canadian goods or sorry chinese goods or other uh you know
00:12:41 non-free economy goods coming into our country through canada so that that whole discussion was
00:12:46 already hashed out and so saying that that was new not true the americans adamantly deny that
00:12:52 the whole issue around french language being you know threatened um is not true that that
00:12:58 that just simply wasn't something that they asserted at all i think james and greer laid
00:13:03 that to rest and so you know we could pick apart what is a very complicated deal and by the way
00:13:10 this isn't this isn't the end of kuzma you know the the invoking of tariffs and putting more
00:13:16 taxation on citizens on both sides of the border on certain sectors doesn't signal the end of of
00:13:23 the kuzma agreement we need to be clear the other thing that i found quite stunning was
00:13:28 the american assertion that you know at the end of the day this deal that they were putting forward
00:13:34 um was going to give canada more advantageous access to their economy than any other country
00:13:42 on the planet i'd like to see that yes you know and and if that is the case even if it means that
00:13:49 there were reduced tariffs or that there were certain issues that still had to be settled
00:13:54 supply management among them then you know why was that turned down you know what concessions
00:14:02 did Canada what further concessions let's put it that way did Canada have to make bring back
00:14:08 Parliament have a committee let let those who were in the room answer those critically important
00:14:15 questions another little sidebar to this I don't know how much longer Canada writ large the prime
00:14:23 minister the liberal government is going to be able to contain uh the premiers and and the
00:14:28 provincial interests in all of this i mean liquor sales are are really in the grand scheme of
00:14:35 things not a huge economic driver but you know there's a reluctance on the part of the premiers
00:14:42 and and in some sectors it's going to bite more than others autos in in uh in the case of ontario
00:14:48 aluminum ontario and aluminum steel ontario and and quebec so the longer that this dispute
00:14:58 rolls on and certain provinces are going to be disproportionately hurt by the status quo and
00:15:08 and further tariffs you know like we know what's going to happen are we put more tariffs on next
00:15:13 week they put more on you know probably the next day because they're bracing themselves for this
00:15:18 and it's look in a word it's not sustainable it's not sustainable in the current status
00:15:27 yeah we got a couple minutes left i know you have to run and i don't i don't want to keep
00:15:32 you too long do you think doug ford torpedoed the deal
00:15:35 i don't want to believe that either um but i also know that there's a history here you know
00:15:46 the running of the reagan ad at a critical juncture yes maybe didn't torpedo but sure
00:15:51 didn't help um was the prime minister aware of it don't know but yeah look uh i know doug ford 0.85
00:16:01 like him um telling anybody in the midst of a heated exchange such as this to kiss your posterior
00:16:09 it's you know it's it's funny at a at a party or in a bar but you know to say it publicly to the
00:16:15 world um a guy with a gargantuan ego who's a narcissist who is mercurial but is let's let's
00:16:25 be pretty frank and clear-eyed about it he's pulling the levers in the united states that
00:16:29 affect us in a significant way and it's an overused expression but you know poking them
00:16:36 sticking them in the eye where does it get you feels good all of this you know feels good and
00:16:43 they're picking on us and uh you know all the the memes and and the jokes aside you know come
00:16:51 christmas we we are going to be in a pretty tough place and there's a lot of really vulnerable
00:16:57 businesses and citizens that my heart goes out to um those vulnerable industries and people
00:17:02 i don't think are are amused by some of these exchanges that are going on publicly
00:17:09 Yeah, it's schoolyard stuff.
00:17:11 Doesn't help.
00:17:13 Peter, thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:17:15 Great to chat with you once again.
00:17:17 You too, Mark.
00:17:17 Peter McKay.
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00:17:30 Thank you so much for tuning in.
00:17:31 We'll see you next time.
00:17:38 Thank you.