00:00:25.460Thank you so much for being on the program today.
00:00:28.760We spent most of the show yesterday talking about the new leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Pierre Polyev, who won very handily Saturday night, over 68%, 68.15% for the precise among you, percent of the points in the leadership race, a much better margin than Erin O'Toole had, than Andrew Scheer had.
00:00:49.820And even if you go way back to the very formation of the Conservative Party, even more than Stephen Harper had with a much smaller field of candidates.
00:00:59.240So this is fairly important. And the big question now becomes one of party unity.
00:01:04.440What are the Conservative Party's next steps?
00:01:06.980I'm going to be speaking about that in just a couple of moments time with Candace Bergen, the former leader of the Conservative Party of Canada,
00:01:13.940who got on a schedule anyway, it wasn't like a coup or anything, got ousted from the position
00:01:19.580when Pierre Polyev won on Saturday. But we'll talk to her about her tenure in that role as
00:01:24.840leader of Her Majesty's loyal opposition at the time and where the party is moving forward.
00:01:30.580But I just want to start by what has been, I think, a fairly exciting kickoff to Pierre
00:01:36.260Polyev's leadership here. I want to play a clip which just emerged a couple of hours ago at the
00:01:41.760very first time pierre pauliev step before the ottawa media the parliamentary press gallery he
00:01:48.640had prepared remarks he came out he was ready to give them and well got a little bit derailed
00:02:00.400thank you very much for coming i appreciate that thank you very much i appreciate it
00:02:05.840appreciate your presence here today uh before i begin let me just say that uh
00:02:14.160thank you very much i'm being i'm being heckled here by by the by thank you very much for your
00:02:20.000congratulations thank you very much for your questions i'm going to begin my remarks now
00:02:27.680justin trudeau is out of touch and canadians are out of money the cost of government is driving up
00:02:35.840cost of living. A half a trillion dollars of inflationary deficits have bid up the cost
00:02:42.940of the goods we buy and the interest that Canadians pay. And that is why we are experiencing
00:02:51.80040-year highs in inflation today. Here we are today with 40-year highs in inflation,
00:02:58.820where Canadians are spending more just to feed themselves, to heat their homes, and
00:03:04.800buy a home in the very first place the reason that they're like yeah so we have we have uh
00:03:14.560basically a liberal heckler who snuck in here today to well apparently right are you going to
00:03:23.760let me make my misstatement from the guy who actually reported first on the prime minister
00:03:28.000breaking the law are you going to let me ask a question say i've never i've actually never seen
00:03:33.040you heckling the prime minister look bottom line is this yes I'm taking I
00:03:41.020will taking two questions at the very end thank you very much the so I'm gonna
00:03:45.040start my statement again and hopefully this time without interruption from the
00:03:50.380liberal heckling gathering here and I will speak directly to Canadians so that
00:03:55.660they can hear what the new leader of the opposition has to say I'll begin again
00:04:03.040And the liberal heckler, as Pierre Polyev puts it, is David Aiken from Global News, who, before Pierre Polyev even, like, opened his mouth for his statement, was being, like, bombarded and peppered with questions.
00:04:18.000Now, I'm not one of these people that thinks politicians should be treated with the kid gloves, quite the contrary.
00:04:23.420But ideally, like, let them say what they're going to say and then, like, heckle them at the end if they aren't taking your questions or if they aren't answering your question.
00:04:31.180But instead of groveling, instead of apologizing, Pierre Polyev says, yeah, you're a liberal heckler.
00:04:39.320And he basically, once he restarted, was able to continue with the statement.
00:04:43.220Now, this is just one media availability on one day, the first opportunity that Pierre Polyev has really had to go before the parliamentary press gallery.
00:04:52.300But I think this may be a tone that kind of works for him.
00:04:56.040Certainly the people commenting on this on Twitter seem to be fans, except for the ones that weren't really fans of him in the first place.
00:05:02.940But we'll talk about all this and more a little bit later on in the show.
00:05:06.400I want to talk about the bigger picture right now of conservative politics in this country.
00:05:10.940We've had for the last basically nine months Candace Bergen as the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada.
00:05:17.840And she's now announced she's not even going to be running again, which I know has disappointed a lot of people, but it comes after a great many years of public service.
00:05:26.520And I'm very pleased that Candice Bergen, the Portage-Lisgar MP and former Conservative leader, joins me now.
00:05:32.860Candice, good to talk to you. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
00:05:36.580Hi, Andrew. Great to see you. Thanks for having me.
00:05:41.340Let me just point out a technicality here. I know that you were known generally as the interim leader.
00:05:47.840But that's actually not a title that exists in any meaningful way in Canada.
00:05:52.560I mean, you were the leader of the official opposition.
00:05:55.180You were the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, but it was on an interim basis.
00:06:00.680That's right. Actually, in our party, we only have one title.
00:06:05.520It's leader of the... I like to joke, I'm not the interim leader.
00:06:09.060I was the leader in the interim, and it was an honour.
00:06:13.520It was a challenging, but a very, very good seven months.
00:06:17.220How difficult is it for you to take over that role on an interim basis when you know there's
00:06:26.220going to be a permanent leader that's going to come in and put their own brand on the party and
00:06:30.420put their own policies in place? But at the same time, you also have to rise to the challenge on
00:06:35.660very difficult issues that were coming up, like Justin Trudeau's vilification of people based on
00:06:40.760vaccination status, like vaccine mandates, like ethics. How do you find that balance of doing
00:06:46.300your job as an opposition leader, but also not, you know, branding the party in a way that's
00:06:51.900normally the job of the person who's coming after you? Well, I was fortunate to have an incredible
00:06:59.120caucus group of members of the parliament that when I became the leader, there was a lot of
00:07:06.360negativity in the caucus. But these are good individuals who know how to be part of a team,
00:07:12.760private sector, they'd come from different walks of life and I found, I found whether it was Ronna
00:07:19.720Ambrose, other leaders, that if as a leader we respect, trust us and remain consistently conservative,
00:07:29.960which is really important, they were accomplished through an extremely difficult time. As you
00:07:35.480mentioned it was literally right in the middle of the convoy was was invoked we
00:07:41.960had the coalition between the Liberals and the NDP unprecedented inflation so
00:07:50.000there was a lot going on but a group of MPs that we work together and we stayed
00:07:56.960true to our conservative principle back down now did that mean that we weren't
00:08:01.580thinking about what Canadians wanted we wanted to offer
00:08:05.480so it was I came into it it was difficult initially I knew that if I treated this
00:08:13.460caucus with respect they deserved they treated me the same way a lot and we are
00:08:19.940we are not only unified we are a team well let me ask about that because
00:08:26.480obviously leadership races nomination battles at a local level they sometimes
00:08:31.240can bring out tensions and ideally at the end of it everyone gets behind the
00:08:35.240winner. And, you know, everyone wears their blue colors if you're in a Conservative Party of Canada
00:08:39.740context. But the challenge that I would raise on this, if you look even just today, for example,
00:08:46.000one member of the Quebec caucus, Alain Reyes, has already said he will no longer be sitting as a
00:08:50.720Conservative. And I guess the question is, where are the fault lines in this unity battle right
00:08:56.500now? Because the statement from Mr. Reyes was that he didn't feel as a progressive Conservative,
00:09:01.240You know, one of the two legacy parties that formed the Conservative Party of Canada, that he had a place.
00:09:08.080Well, I think the results of these were very defining.
00:09:13.840And it's clear the party is united in its way for Pierre.
00:09:19.800I was disappointed to see Alain's statement.
00:11:46.440I think any organization, any effective, whether it's in politics or really in any other sector,
00:11:53.360in the country and somebody who makes an impact, whether they leave because they passed away or
00:12:02.060they leave, their impact is not lessened. And I don't think that we should expect it. We should
00:12:09.860be proud and grateful that we had Stephen Harper as a leader and that we can as an example. And
00:12:18.280And whether, you know, when I think I started as a volunteer, I went on to chair secretary, really, I grew in the party and eventually became leader in the interim.
00:12:28.760The fact that is the leader and he also worked closely with Stephen Harper, but Pierre is himself that he believes he needs to be, but have that impact and that influence from the thing that's something we should all be grateful for.
00:12:45.160i know you've as i indicated a few moments ago decided not to seek re-election and as someone
00:12:52.140who's always enjoyed our chats on air you'll still be invited on the show don't worry so that
00:12:56.060you don't give up that when you leave office but uh certainly i think a lot of people are going to
00:13:01.020be disappointed to see you go why decide to take your step off stage now well i've had is andrew
00:13:09.440so much support. People are so kind for, you know, you sometimes hear stories of people, politicians,
00:13:17.520and from my experience, it's been the opposite. People have just been so supportive. You know,
00:13:22.480first of all, I just want to say how much that has meant to me. You know, honestly, Andrew,
00:13:28.640I did a little bit even prior to the last election. I wanted to make sure that I stayed,
00:13:35.520I had something to contribute and something that I needed to do and I thought after the last thing
00:13:42.800about that even more when I became a leader and things left the party I felt that this was the
00:13:50.800time for me to leave this particular position involved in helping the party I still hope to be
00:13:58.880involved maybe in the private sector maybe not for 37 I still have a lot left to offer but I
00:14:05.280I wanted to leave on my terms and leave when I the most that I could accomplish
00:14:10.380in that particular field that I was in so you know that's I'd rather go when
00:14:16.020people are saying please stay then go when they're saying you know when is she
00:14:21.400going but I do have to say this Andrew I've got to say this yes I watched your
00:14:26.280clip and I saw a little bit of him really acting in an incredibly impolite
00:15:00.720I better check in when it comes to, they talk about bullying and being nasty and where's their anger coming from?
00:15:10.200Because they sure seem to have, I saw some real strong anger coming out of David Aiken.
00:15:16.860And I don't know what's going on with him, but that, I think it's something we're going to have to be, call it out and be very conscious of it.
00:15:30.720You've had a very distinguished career and I note what you've said there very much that you aren't
00:15:35.120done yet. You're just moving on to another chapter. But I thank you very much, Candice,
00:15:38.960for your service and also for coming on today. It's been a pleasure.
00:15:42.860My pleasure. Thanks so much, Andrew. All the best to you.
00:15:46.760Thank you. Candice Bergen, former leader of the Conservative Party of Canada on an interim basis.
00:15:51.960It's a little technicality, but it matters. I understand and I'm sorry I didn't notice it
00:15:56.100earlier. Apparently there were some audio issues at some point in the chain there.
00:15:59.160I was able to certainly catch what she was saying, but I know it might have dipped in and out. So I apologize for those technical issues. But nonetheless, I think the point was an incredibly valid one, especially at the end there, when she talks about the hostility in the media. And I get that. I mean, right now, a lot of journalists in Canada are jumping up and down talking about how uncivil they feel people are towards them. And obviously, anyone that steps forward publicly is going to bear the wrath of people on the internet.
00:16:25.760But certainly you look at that clip and you wonder, yeah, you know what, the media sometimes dishes out the incivility as well, to put it kindly.
00:16:33.700And, you know, David Akin, his defense may be, and I'm actually just going to check on Twitter right now to see if he's responded to this.
00:16:41.540Because he may say, you know, I'm an equal opportunity heckler.
00:20:52.380and Pierre Polyev's like I was dude I was just saying hi like I once was at a party which in
00:20:57.820and of itself is newsworthy and I was like going around and I introduced myself to a guy and I
00:21:03.300said oh hi I'm Andrew and he shakes my hand and then he just like launches into something and I
00:21:07.580was like I I was just saying hello I was just like trying to walk around the table saying hello
00:21:11.560at that time Pierre Polyev was just walking around the table saying hello and even then they wouldn't
00:21:17.540So he's going to no doubt, I mean, my colleague Harrison Faulkner tweeted this video, and I just want to take a look at where this is on Twitter now. I think it has done very, very well. It is, I can't even find the tweet, but certainly it's got like hundreds and hundreds, maybe even thousands of likes and retweets.
00:21:35.540And then there was this incident. Now, again, this is hearsay, but it's hearsay from the press secretary to Pierre Polyev. So it's not just some random guy on Twitter. But Anthony Koch says, at a press conference today on combating Justin Trudeau's inflation, David Akin told me to tell conservative leader Pierre Polyev to go F himself.
00:21:57.320later he erupted in a yelling spasm to try and prevent Mr. Polyev from even beginning his press
00:22:04.600conference then he like snitch tags global news so I again I have no reason to distrust Anthony
00:22:09.900I wasn't there I haven't seen it David Aiken has not tweeted a response to this yet but what
00:22:16.880Pierre Polyev's press secretary is saying is that Anthony said to tell Pierre to go f himself and
00:22:22.220then when he got to the press conference started yelling and shouting and screaming and apparently
00:22:26.620the background of this is that Poliev was originally not going to take questions and
00:22:32.120then he decided, and then David Aiken was unhappy about that. And then Pierre Poliev
00:22:35.560said, okay, he'll take two questions. And by the way, I think Pierre Poliev absolutely
00:22:39.680should take questions. Like let's go back to the Freedom Convoy here. And you can see
00:22:44.240this in my book. If you read it, the Freedom Convoy, the inside story of three weeks that
00:22:49.260shook the world available on it. I didn't even know we had that cover in there. See that
00:22:53.160producer has earned his bonus today. Thank you for that. Yes. The Freedom Convoy, the inside story
00:22:59.220of three weeks that shook the world. I was just like, Ray, that wasn't even a planned flood. But
00:23:03.180the convoy organizer said they weren't going to talk to legacy media. They weren't going to talk
00:23:07.700to the David Akins and the Glenn McGregor. And there was that one video from the convoy that
00:23:12.300a lot of people enjoyed a bit of schadenfreude over of Glenn McGregor, like having a hissy fit
00:23:17.280in a hotel hallway because he wasn't allowed in the room where the convoy people were having
00:23:22.160their press conference. And I think it was a flawed strategy because I think you should actually
00:23:29.000let them come in, take their questions. And if they're a biased question asker, you expose it.
00:23:34.280And if they report something inaccurate, you expose that. And I would take the same view of
00:23:38.500Pierre Polyef. Pierre Polyef should stand up there and take their questions. I think his team should
00:23:43.900probably and does probably have confidence in his ability to do exactly what he did with David Akin,
00:23:50.680which is to shout down someone if they're trying to talk over him, if they ask a question that's
00:23:55.380a trap, to actually identify it as a trap and say, that's a trap. I'm not going near that.
00:24:00.240And then to pivot to his message. Like this is a guy who's done this. He was one of the strongest
00:24:04.720conservatives in question period for a reason. So I do think that if they try to do this Harper
00:24:11.220thing and hide Pierre Polyev from the media, it's not going to work because the media is just going
00:24:16.080to spin its wheels, but they don't actually get exposed. Whereas I think they should open the
00:24:20.120doors, open the floodgates, let the media come in. And then when the media exposes themselves to be
00:24:25.760petty little liberal hack children, then turn it around and show the world that, or show the
00:24:32.060country that anyway. That is, I would put forth the winning strategy for Pierre Polyev. You got
00:24:39.440to play to your leader's strength and you got to diminish their weaknesses. His ability to handle
00:24:43.400himself in front of a hostile crowd is a strength, not a weakness. So let him embrace that. I mean,
00:24:51.020when I saw the press release go out from his office about this little media availability he
00:24:55.860was going to have, it said he's going to deliver remarks to the media or something like, like it
00:24:59.780didn't say what you'd normally say in that context, which is he is having a media availability. So I
00:25:04.600know from that he was not going to, it sounded like take questions. And I said, oh, now the media
00:25:10.360is going to make that the story. Whereas in this particular case, the fact that he did respond,
00:25:15.540he did engage with David Aiken, I think actually worked far better for him. It actually helped him
00:25:20.780much more in the long run. So this kind of thing is going to continue to happen. And I think they
00:25:27.980need to be able to meet the challenge head on and go for it. And I mean, look, we have requested an
00:25:33.500interview with Pierre Polyev. So far, he's not done any sit downs since he became the leader.
00:25:37.540we are going to continue to be on that because I think it is important for us to go forward with
00:25:42.660that and hold them to account and ask questions about all of these key things. And I guess one
00:25:49.260question I would ask to anyone who is like absolutely in a frenzy about Pierre Polyeva,
00:25:55.160what is it you're seeing there? What is it you're seeing there? And I don't know the answer to that.
00:26:02.120I don't know what is they're seeing. When you start using words like fascist and extremist,
00:26:07.540like, I don't even know if they know what those things mean. I don't know if they've actually
00:26:13.280entertained them or if it's just like so familiar to them. It's like such, it's such like a, an easy
00:26:19.900thing for them that they don't even entertain it. It was like, Stephen Harper was a dictator
00:26:23.320and Pierre Polyev is a fascist. And Aaron O'Toole was like, you know, Attila the Hun and,
00:26:28.480and Andrew Scheer was, I can't even think of some example. I mean, it was like that clip I,
00:26:32.700or that quote I shared yesterday from CUPE saying that Pierre Polyev should be the governor of
00:26:38.340Alabama, which Jamil Chivani and I were talking about. So all of this stuff, I feel, is really
00:26:46.340going towards this hysteria that I just don't think will be there. And just take, for example,
00:26:53.840this look at Pierre Polyev's leadership team. So he announced this today on Twitter,
00:26:58.580the group of caucus members that he has behind him that are going to be the ones that really
00:27:03.980drive the agenda, that really work and help and do stuff behind the scenes. We'll get that graphic
00:27:09.480up in just a couple of moments, but there it is. So Pierre Polyev, Melissa Lansman is his deputy
00:27:14.380leader, a gay millennial Jewish woman from the GTA, Tim Uppel, who is a Sikh, a very, very
00:27:21.740passionate member of parliament from Edmonton. And then you've got, again, right down the line,
00:27:26.860representation from Saskatchewan, from Quebec, people from the progressive Tory tradition,
00:27:31.760from the harder line, blue Tory tradition. You have all of these different people that are
00:27:35.820coming together. This is not a far right candidate. This is not a far right team.
00:27:42.040And I think that when the media just keeps going into the same bag of tricks, far right, extremist,
00:27:49.240evil, hidden, scary, social conservative. Like I learned something about Pierre Paulyeb when he
00:27:54.480gave his acceptance speech on Saturday night and he thanked his father, Donald, and his father's
00:28:01.260partner, Ross. I actually didn't know until that moment that Pierre Polyev's adopted father was
00:28:06.940gay, was in a relationship with another man. And I don't particularly care about that. But why I0.99
00:28:12.660think it's interesting is that whenever he's been tainted with this, oh, he's cozying up with social
00:28:16.800conservative brush, he has not that I've seen thrown that back at them and say, well, actually
00:28:22.260this. Because he's not playing that identity politics game. He's not playing that identity
00:28:28.220politics game. And if the media tries to make that stick, if the media tries to say,
00:28:31.980in 1984, he voted against same-sex marriage, it's like, well, just take a look at his own life.
00:28:39.560Here's a guy who is saying a lot of things that matter to conservatives and a lot of things that
00:28:45.460I think matter to Canadians as well. But as I said yesterday, the goal is making sure
00:28:51.160that he continues to say those things that even if his tone changes the fundamental message doesn't
00:28:57.080and and one fantastic example of this is cbc funding again i concede it may not be the ballot
00:29:02.940issue for most canadians but it is an issue that matters to a heck of a lot of conservative voters
00:29:08.020which is why defund the cbc was such a robust chant at pierre polyev's rally and it was with
00:29:15.620him. I actually asked him very candidly. I asked him point blank about what he's going to do and
00:29:22.100when he's going to do it because I'm trying to put on the record and preempt exactly what happened
00:29:27.040in 2020 with Aaron O'Toole when he said, again, all the right things in the leadership race and
00:29:31.020then was nowhere to be found on these issues in the general. And this was my exchange with Pierre
00:29:35.360Polyev. Talk about independent media. You've established that you want to get rid of the
00:29:40.500the Trudeau government's media bailouts, you want to defund the CBC. We heard in the last
00:29:45.680leadership election, Aaron O'Toole say that he was going to defund the CBC. And during the election,
00:29:50.760that had been walked back to really an unrecognizable point in the party's platform.
00:29:56.360Specifically, what will you do with CBC in your first mandate?
00:30:00.640Well, I will defund it to save a billion dollars. I think the only justification for
00:30:10.040a broadcaster, a public broadcaster, would be to fulfill what the market can't provide.
00:30:17.220Almost everything the CBC does can be done in the marketplace these days because of
00:31:05.140So the National, Power and Politics, CBC News Online, no funding for those under a Polyev government?0.99
00:31:10.620Yeah, I don't think that the television service, the English language television service that CBC provides or the digital provide anything that people can't get from the marketplace.0.99
00:31:24.860So after that interview, I had a few people that are like, is this really the most important thing?
00:31:29.180Why are you spending so much time talking about it?
00:31:31.100It's because I think the precision was important.
00:31:33.380I wanted him to lay out exact so there was no ability to go back after and say well what I
00:31:38.880meant was no he said what he meant there'd be no national there'd be no little mosque on the
00:31:42.860prairie reboot there'd be no being Erica there'd be no whatever other shows are on CBC that no one
00:31:47.880watches it would be gone a little bit of French language funding but CBC English news would be
00:31:54.400gone so that is a big issue because that is a clear issue and that is a yes or no so in the
00:32:01.760general election platforms, defund CBC better be in there. And again, instead of doing what
00:32:08.200happened in the last election, where the conservative leader sort of cowers before the
00:32:12.140media, own it. And when CBC starts asking the question, you know they will. But how could you
00:32:19.020defund us? He can say, well, hang on. Why are you asking? You're biased. You've got a conflict of
00:32:23.020interest. You're talking about your own job here. You're not talking about something that matters
00:32:26.780to Canadians. You're talking about something that matters to you. And show Canadians what that is.
00:32:33.420So I think in a lot of cases, the advice is hide from the media because they're the only way that
00:32:39.540you can win. But if you are capable of flipping the script, if you have truth on your side,
00:32:45.400I think as we saw in that David Akin clip, you can really flip the story. And for once in
00:32:51.380conservatives lives in this country go on offense. We've got to end things there. My thanks to all
00:32:56.940of you for tuning into today's show. We will have a new edition of Fake News Friday that I'm sure
00:33:01.160this clip will also seep into in just a couple days time. And next week, we will go the other
00:33:08.940way with this, talking about the conservative movement and what the Polyev win means for0.62
00:33:13.680Maxime Bernier and the People's Party of Canada. So like I've always said, we cover the conservative
00:33:18.280movement with a small C, not just the large C conservative party. So that's what we have coming
00:33:23.020up on the show next week, as well as lots of other things. So I do thank you so much for tuning in.
00:33:27.920We'll talk to you folks soon. Thank you. God bless. And good day to you all.
00:33:32.440Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:33:34.600Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.