00:11:50.220So if the RCMP didn't, the Ottawa police didn't, maybe the OPP did, but that doesn't really make sense because they weren't in charge here.
00:11:58.340So maybe it's that no one asked for it.
00:12:01.280Maybe it's that no police asked for the Emergencies Act and Justin Trudeau just wanted to do it.
00:12:07.800The Trudeau government just wanted this power for themselves.
00:12:11.340It wasn't about capitulating to police.
00:12:13.420And by the way, even if police had asked for it, that doesn't mean it would have been a right to give it.
00:12:17.500But in this case, no one asked for it, it seems like.
00:12:20.080Maybe this is why Justin Trudeau's government doesn't want to access, doesn't want to hand over its cabinet documents and its cabinet records to the independent inquiry.
00:12:29.880Because they'll see that perhaps this process emerged and emanated entirely from cabinet without law enforcement requesting it when law enforcement was always the government's shield.
00:12:41.100It was always the body that government was using to say, oh, no, no, no, we're doing this for them.
00:12:48.240Well, if police didn't ask for it, maybe it wasn't actually a last resort.
00:12:55.100Now, I can't give you the definitive answer as to why the government wanted to do it.
00:12:59.940I think that, again, it was making them look bad.
00:13:02.320I also think they wanted to just go after the truckers where it hurt.
00:13:05.800And it was the Emergencies Act that allowed them to bring in this absolutely insane and Orwellian financial regime that froze hundreds of bank accounts and protected banks from any liability for doing this.
00:13:20.060So, again, it was this malignant alliance between government and big banks that Canadians are still paying for.
00:13:26.960Peter Sean Taylor had a great piece in the C2C Journal about this called Frozen, how Canada's banks betrayed their customers during the Emergencies Act.
00:13:36.200And I should just apologize in advance.
00:13:38.000There's a bit of construction going on around my house, so there might be a bit of background noise.
00:13:42.560I apologize to the audience and to Peter for this, but nonetheless, we'll try to get through it.
00:13:51.060I was mentioning earlier, just to set the stage here, that, you know, it's easy to blame the government, and I think justifiably so for the Emergencies Act.
00:13:58.800But as you note in your column here, the government wasn't really forcing banks to do things.
00:14:04.760The big problem was that it was giving them this tremendously wide latitude to do what they wanted.
00:14:10.360Well, I don't know if they weren't forcing them.
00:14:12.580I think the banks thought they were forced to freeze the accounts.
00:14:18.580I think the real issue, if you want to blame the banks, and I think there's lots of blame to go around with the Emergencies Act, is that they never pushed back.
00:14:27.880They dutifully did what the government said they had to do.
00:14:31.440The government even kind of said it in sort of cloaked terms, and the banks kind of went along with it.
00:14:38.080But, you know, if we're making a chart here, certainly the federal government is the most to blame for how the Emergencies Act played out.
00:14:47.240And I think the banks let their customers down, and probably let Canada down, by not pushing back against what we now see as some real flaws in the application of the Emergencies Act.
00:15:01.200I mean, I don't think they took the reins, but they never stood up for their customers in the way I think, certainly their marketing suggests they do.
00:15:13.160You know, if you watch bank ads, you know, they love their customers, and, you know, they want you to feel comfortable leaving your money with them.
00:15:25.500And I think that's where they let down both their customers and the country.
00:15:29.940Yeah, I think you're right about that.
00:15:31.500And one thing I would point out, too, is that for a lot of people, they had a tremendous amount of lacking confidence in banks and in traditional banking through this.
00:15:40.760And I think a lot of that might have been bluster online.
00:15:42.900But there were talks, and I certainly heard anecdotally from people, that said, yeah, they want to take their money out of the banks.
00:15:47.660They just don't trust it, knowing what can happen with this.
00:15:51.280Yeah, it was a big surprise to a lot of customers.
00:15:53.780The banks haven't really admitted that, if it was a fact.
00:16:00.840What was interesting about the Finance Committee hearings at the House of Commons was both the banks showed up and also the credit unions.
00:16:08.900And the credit union association told a very different story from the banks when asked about, you know, how did your customers react to this news that all of a sudden your accounts could be frozen?
00:16:20.220And the credit unions said that there was widespread panic, that some of their clients, customers took out hundreds of thousands of dollars.
00:16:29.280They said a couple of people took out millions of dollars.
00:16:31.820So there was there was a lot of concern among credit union customers about this new power.
00:16:38.700And so it's it's kind of strange then to hear the bank say, no, it was no big deal.
00:16:44.460You know, we didn't really notice much.
00:16:45.780No, no material change is what they said there.
00:16:49.140You know, you could make an argument that credit union customers are completely different species from bank customers.
00:16:54.540But I don't I don't know that I buy that.
00:16:56.920I think those are their their competitors in a lot of people's minds.
00:17:00.080And I would be very surprised if a bank customer was was that different from a credit union customer in terms of finding out this new power that the government and their financial institution had to to freeze their accounts.
00:17:13.180Yeah. And I mean, certainly for corporate banking and investors and the really big accounts, the big ticket customers, there might be a difference.
00:17:21.920But I think for, you know, Joe or Jane Smith, who just has their banking account at the neighborhood institution, whether it's a bank or a credit union, I'd agree.
00:17:29.500They're probably very similar in this.
00:17:31.120And there were a lot of people that I don't think knew it was as easy as it was ultimately for government and banks to just flip the switch.
00:17:38.180And I mean, we talk about this in a tech context with cancel culture.
00:17:40.980But but in a banking context, I mean, you could, again, just overnight in this case, without even a criminal charge, let alone a conviction, have your account frozen.
00:18:35.580It was a production order for cell phone data that would have essentially they were trying to solve this jewelry robbery ring.
00:18:43.960But basically, they wanted cell phone data on thousands and thousands of customers from dozens of cell phone towers in Peel region near Toronto.
00:18:54.920And to their credit, Tellus and Rogers said, no, this makes us uncomfortable.
00:18:58.480This is a violation of our customers' privacy rights.
00:20:26.220Because, again, companies have customers.
00:20:28.300And I think customers would probably reward a company that was publicly and defiantly going to the mat to protect their privacy, protect their interests.
00:20:36.420In this case, is it banks that don't want to be seen as defending the convoy?
00:20:40.480Is it banks that are afraid of government regulating them if they don't just go along with what government does?
00:20:45.300I mean, do you have any idea what would make them go along with this without publicly anyway putting up a fight?
00:23:14.380And, you know, and again, these convoy organizers, when they were targeted, it wasn't just their checking account.
00:23:19.240It was their savings account, their lines of credit, their credit cards.
00:23:22.620You know, basically anything they had, if they had a joint account with a spouse, that was also frozen.
00:23:27.560I mean, I heard just from some of the convoy organizers whose accounts were frozen about issues they had paying for medication for their children.
00:23:34.480So, I mean, the consequences of this are very significant.
00:23:38.840Yeah, and the numbers, you know, the Mounties and the feds will say it was only 257 accounts.
00:23:49.600Because if you look at the way that emergency order was written, it talks about anyone directly or indirectly supporting what is defined as an illegal activity.
00:24:01.540So, you know, that apocryphal tale of, you know, someone who gave $20, they might not have had their accounts frozen, but they certainly could have.
00:24:11.220Anyone who showed up on the RCMP's list, and, you know, the RCMP was the one who got to decide who goes on that list, anyone directly or indirectly connected could have had their accounts frozen.
00:24:23.860So it's so, it was so broadly written, it may have been narrowly applied, but the possibility was there for, you know, a huge amount of damage done to thousands of people, not just hundreds.
00:24:37.800Now, trying to look into the crystal ball here, Peter, do you think that the longer term implications of this will be now the cork has been popped?
00:24:44.880So this is just a tool available with precedent, or do you think because of this, it will make people a lot more resistant in the future?
00:24:53.100Well, I certainly hope, you know, what do I see and what do I hope?
00:24:59.840I certainly hope that this will reveal to people this kind of dormant power that has been lying there that hasn't been used yet, and to mobilize, certainly all the hearings and inquiries that are being launched in Ottawa, and, you know, looking at the, you know, how convincing was the federal government's narrative about the necessity of the Emergencies Act, you know, all the things that are all sort of falling away as, as untruths about,
00:25:27.900you know, arson, and whether the police requested it, or weapons, and, you know, all these sorts of things.
00:25:37.380So, there's certainly a lot of scrutiny, and I think the government is going to be held to a much higher standard the next time it tries to do this, and I would hope that any government in the future thinks twice about it, and especially in the way it writes, like, that emergency order that, you know, was authorized under the
00:25:57.900Emergencies Act, and that order was what directed the financial institutions to freeze accounts and stuff, and as we've just discussed, it was so broadly written, so I would hope that we would see much more specificity.
00:26:10.740But this, this new threat of being frozen out of your entire digital financial life is so powerful, and everyone instantly recognizes how important your credit cards and everything is, so I certainly hope that people are sort of now aware of what's lying out there, and are going to demand much greater scrutiny in the future.
00:26:32.980Yeah, and like anything, I always have to tell people, don't, don't view this just in the parameters of the circumstances here, and you may say, well, I don't like the truckers, there's no skin off my back, I don't care, it's the power itself that's matter, that matters here.
00:26:46.840Oh, and we're saying, this is, this is the precedent for future use, right?
00:26:51.680If this, if, if society says, well, that's, you know, if a bunch of people we don't like hunker down in a road somewhere, yeah.
00:27:00.920Yeah, the next anti-oil blockade, oh, oh, let's, let's go after the Tides Foundation's bank account or whatever.
00:27:07.220Interestingly, during the, you know, most of my research came out of this House of Commons Finance Committee hearings, and the head of the First Nations Assembly, Roseanne, I forget her last name.
00:27:21.680She said, she said, you know, we're quite concerned, the Indigenous community uses crowdfunding to support their protests, very concerned about the ability to sanction, you know, how are we defining an illegal activity here?
00:27:40.520So, not just one side of the political spectrum, I think everybody who might have a bone to pick with, with the status quo, now realizes that they, this nuclear option is there for them as well as, as their opponents.
00:27:59.800It's a great piece over at the C2C Journal, Frozen, how Canada's banks betrayed their customers during the Emergencies Act.
00:28:06.800Peter, Sean Taylor, great piece, and thanks so much for coming on today.
00:28:11.220Peter, Sean Taylor, that was phenomenal.
00:28:13.340And yeah, I think banks were the ones that had a tremendous failing here on their part.
00:28:18.680And I go back to the weekend before Justin Trudeau announced the Emergencies Act, the knowledge that came out that Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland, Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland, had been meeting with the CEOs of Canada's big banks.
00:29:24.340You can take issue with big finance and all of this.
00:29:26.920But the worst is when government is getting into bed with these entities.
00:29:30.980That's when it is absolutely this just insane and insurmountable power that an ordinary citizen cannot go up against and come out from unscathed.
00:29:41.600So I'm so glad Peter Sean Taylor wrote that.
00:29:44.240I want to shift to a different topic here.
00:29:46.400And you may think all of this is, as the C2C Journal says, an example of creeping authoritarianism.
00:29:51.580And I'd say that there is a big, big, big, big wealth and trove of evidence supporting that.
00:29:57.820There are people in this country who know what authoritarianism is, who know what dictatorships are,
00:30:03.200all too well because they came to Canada to escape those.
00:30:07.300They came to Canada to get out of that and to find freedom.
00:30:10.740And a lot of the people that were supporting the Freedom Convoy, either in Ottawa or from home,
00:30:16.580were people who came, a lot of them from Eastern Europe, a lot from Latin America,
00:30:20.580people that had a very keen understanding of what it meant to be a citizen in a country where the state has the power.
00:30:28.440The state is that fundamental building block of society rather than the individual.
00:30:34.680And I was struck by a lot of these stories.
00:30:36.420And I know that Rupa Subramania of the National Post did a great job talking to people.
00:30:41.700A lot of them she included in her piece that she wrote for Barry Weiss's Substack.
00:30:46.020But there was something clear there that Canadians, that all the Canadians saying,
00:30:50.740oh, you know, what are these people complaining about, didn't really understand.
00:30:54.560And that was something that I felt was, I think, missing from this.
00:30:58.420Now, this is not related to the convoy,
00:31:00.320but it is related to that broader trend of people in this country that fled communism,
00:31:04.960that fled dictatorships, that fled unfree societies and the experiences that they're having in Canada.
00:31:12.580And there was a great feature put together by our friends over at secondstreet.org delving into this.
00:31:17.900The series is called Survivors of Socialism.
00:31:20.880They interview people that have, as the title of the series would suggest, have survived socialism.
00:31:25.800They've come to Canada because they think it's going to be better and freer.
00:31:29.160And this is not saying Canada is a socialist dictatorship.
00:31:31.820It's just pointing out what people who have lived through that feel when they see certain things happening here.
00:31:38.800And I just personally think the convoy is a great example of that.
00:31:42.480Joining me now from secondstreet.org is President Colin Craig.
00:31:46.540Colin, always good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on today.
00:32:01.080One is we're always interested in public policy and sharing good ideas and, you know, shining a light on bad ideas.
00:32:07.820And so one thing we thought that would be interesting was that just given that socialism and communism have had such a horrendous impact on countries around the world,
00:32:19.180and many Canadians have come from those countries, we thought it'd be interesting to survey some Canadians who came from those countries to say,
00:32:26.000are there any policies in Canada right now that concern you as they remind you of the countries that you fled?
00:32:31.960And we really didn't know what to expect when we started the survey, but one thing we heard back was that a lot of people from those countries,
00:32:42.000the top concern was efforts to restrict freedom of speech.
00:32:46.360And I thought, oh, this is pretty interesting, because like I say, I didn't know where it was going to go,
00:32:49.280but that was something that a lot of respondents raised was the most common response.
00:32:53.240Many noted two pieces of legislation that were before the House of Commons in Ottawa prior to the last election.
00:33:03.720So that was the one part was to do that survey.
00:33:06.100And the other part was to really talk, tell the stories of Canadians who have come from these countries
00:33:13.600and let them share their experiences, because so often, you know, academics and university professors,
00:33:19.360some politicians, some activists, they really paint socialism and communism with a nice bright flowery kind of light.
00:33:29.740And obviously, they're not telling the full story.
00:33:32.220So we thought, well, it's important to give a voice to people that have come from those nations
00:33:36.320to learn more about what it was that they experienced.
00:33:39.880I'm reticent to ask this, because I don't want anyone at all to think that I'm, you know, shilling for socialism here.
00:33:45.680But is there a difference, in your view, between the broader economic socialism that you see in Scandinavia
00:33:53.480or even in the NDP platform in Canada, in many cases,
00:33:56.760and the political socialism that we associate with dictatorships?
00:34:00.580Because they are in different categories, or are they just on one spectrum in the same, you know, just at different degrees?
00:34:08.500Yeah, and it's an interesting topic, because I think when you talk to different people,
00:34:12.600you'll get different definitions on socialism and communism, when I, when we think about sort of the historic cases,
00:34:19.280when it comes to Scandinavia, I mean, those countries are not socialists, despite what people will try and say about them.
00:34:28.520And in fact, Denmark's former Prime Minister was speaking at Harvard, and he made that point quite clearly.
00:34:35.500He said, look, Denmark is not a socialist country.
00:34:38.620It's a market economy. And if you think about it, one of the one of the key distinctions between a socialist country
00:34:45.300and what we have here in Canada is, you know, people often talk about the means of production,
00:34:50.140the factories, the farms, who owns them, who operates them, and in a socialist country, it's operated collectively,
00:34:57.140usually by the government. And so obviously, in a country like Canada, that's, that's generally not the case.
00:35:03.740We have some government programs and crown corporations operating different things.
00:35:07.920But for the most part, we're a market economy. Scandinavian countries are the same.
00:35:13.160In fact, they have, they have lower business taxes. And in many respects, they're more free than Canada.
00:35:20.080But where they differ, is that they impose higher taxes on their citizens.
00:35:24.420So the sales taxes are quite a bit higher, personal income taxes are higher, and that funds the social welfare state.
00:35:31.940So it's, you know, if people want to say, well, let's copy Scandinavia, I mean, that's something they can say,
00:35:37.120but it's incorrect to say that, let's copy them. They're a great example of socialism.
00:35:41.300And in a lot of ways, that makes sense. Because if you're going to talk about a system, a government that controls a free enterprise,
00:35:49.520it's not a big leap to control other aspects of what normally and what in a free country would be part of the private sphere.
00:35:56.740And I mean, you mentioned speech at the beginning, that's a great example.
00:35:59.060If government wants to control the free market to the point where it's not free, free, well, yeah,
00:36:05.160why wouldn't they do that with the marketplace of ideas?
00:36:07.200Yeah, well, that's what we've seen in true socialist and communist countries, is it's not just means of production that they control.
00:36:14.780It's they own people's homes. You don't own your house. You live in a state-owned house or state-owned apartment building, whatever.
00:36:23.180And then there's that clamping down on human rights. Democracy is usually quashed.
00:36:31.900Or if there are elections, they're fake. You know, we talked to someone from the former USSR.
00:36:36.640I said, oh, no, no, there were elections, but you could only choose from one candidate.
00:36:40.720So it, you know, it's essentially a fake system.
00:36:44.560We've talked to people who were thrown in jail for speaking out, speaking their mind.
00:36:49.900We talked to a Venezuelan who, you know, talked about how he was put in jail for a few days
00:36:54.780because he was trying to lead some protests and speak out against what the government was doing.
00:36:59.880A lady from Cuba described how her friend there was doing similar activities and he was thrown in prison.
00:37:08.960So there is that clamping down on freedom of speech and that.
00:37:13.100And, you know, if you go back to the readings of Marx and Engels, I mean, they even talk about the need for violence to make the transition and then to uphold it.
00:37:23.080So I think that's probably one of the main reasons why it's so common in these countries to have violence and restrict freedom of speech
00:37:30.760because you want immense, immense, immense state control. You can't have any dissent.
00:37:35.020The people that were raising alarms about things they see in Canada compared to things in the country they fled to get to Canada,
00:37:44.320was the concern that they feel Canada is going down a road from which there is no coming back?
00:37:49.780Or was it really just more frustration that they came to Canada thinking it was one country
00:37:55.160and now the longer they're here, they're realizing that all these things they thought were great and free aren't actually as much?
00:38:02.660Yeah, you know, that's a very good question.
00:38:04.160I mean, there was there were some sort of some dark responses that felt that we were kind of heading down this road.
00:38:12.300We weren't going to turn back. Things are going to get really bad.
00:38:15.720And then I think on the whole, people recognize that right now in Canada, things are not like they are, say, in a country like Venezuela or Cuba.
00:38:23.860Well, you know, even even China. Right.
00:38:27.000It's not really a communist country anymore, but it's still authoritarian.
00:38:31.300It's kept that that feature. But we're not like that.
00:38:34.760We have more freedom of speech than what we have in those nations.
00:38:37.880But a lot of people say it said that the country has changed over the past 20, 30 years
00:38:44.140and that they don't have the same freedoms that they once had, but that it's still generally a free country.
00:38:50.020Right. And I think that's so frustrating.
00:38:53.240And I've always been inspired when I've heard from people oftentimes.
00:38:56.220I mean, it used to be just based on demographics and ages, people from Eastern Europe that were among the most patriotic, freedom loving people you'd ever met because they had a very fresh and a very raw memory of what it was like living in a country that wasn't like that.
00:39:12.480You mentioned Cuba, one gentleman who's fairly well known in right of center circles in Canada, Marco Navarro.
00:39:18.520He fled Nicaragua. And there's a great video of him on SecondStreet.org in this.
00:39:23.960But it is often the case, I think, that people that understand what unfreedom is like are far more aware and far more conscientious about freedom.
00:39:32.300In a way, I think a lot of native born Westerners aren't.
00:39:35.060Yeah, I mean, that's a very good point. And that was something that we noticed in the research was that I think there really was the alarm bells were going off with the survey respondents more so than I think average everyday Canadians that had were born and raised here because they hadn't experienced, you know, where things could go.
00:39:57.340And so these people that came from these countries were acutely aware of the need for freedom because they didn't want to lose anything that they've had since they've been here.
00:40:08.240So that was an interesting point to see that. I mean, there were a lot of concerns raised with the pandemic and some of the restrictions that have been imposed because of it too.
00:40:18.840And so, I mean, that's a different topic, which ones were warranted and which ones went too far.
00:40:24.040But that was interesting to see just how sensitive people in the survey were to those those types of restrictions.
00:40:30.040I've got to say, overall, the stories were really interesting.
00:40:34.280They were not pleasant stories, but it was it was fascinating to to see what would happen in these different countries because we can't relate here in Canada.
00:40:42.340We've never been a socialist or communist country.
00:40:44.540We we haven't seen the type of oppression that these people have lived through.
00:40:49.140I mean, one of the interesting stories was something that Boris Rassen shared with us about how living under the USSR, they ended up destroying cookbooks.
00:40:57.740And the reason was, is that because under the Soviet Union, it was just such a disaster that there was such restrictions on food that they didn't want people opening up the cookbooks and seeing all these ingredients that their ancestors would have used.
00:41:15.540Because then they'd wonder, well, why don't we have access to those anymore?
00:41:19.140And it would kind of pull back the curtain as to how incompetent that structure of government was.
00:41:25.940I've told this story on my show before.
00:41:28.940I was in 2019 in the UK for the media freedom conference or the global conference for media freedom that Canada and the UK were co-hosting.
00:41:37.440And one of the things that I found so striking is how they were looking at all of these other countries around the world where I mean, obviously, if you're a journalist, you're taking your life into your own hands.
00:41:46.740Some African dictatorships, even some countries in Asia.
00:41:50.740And I was obviously sympathetic to those plights, but it was interesting how looking at places that are worse than you becomes a very convenient way to not look inward and to not be introspective.
00:42:02.740And I think with what you're describing here about socialist and communist authoritarian countries, it's very similar.
00:42:08.740Canada and Canadians would say, well, our country is not like Cuba, our country is not like Nicaragua, our country is not like China.
00:42:14.740And you can say, well, no, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking very critically at things that you're doing that would be welcome in those countries.
00:42:21.740Exactly. And that was something that was raised as a concern is that we have to defend the freedoms that we have.
00:42:27.740We don't want to go down this road of allowing the government the ability to restrict freedom of speech and so forth.
00:42:34.740So the respondents were very sensitive to that.
00:42:37.740And, you know, I think part of going through these stories and talking to people and reading their survey responses, it makes me feel grateful for where I do live.
00:42:48.740We do not live in those under the same type of aggressive regime that these many of these respondents came from.
00:42:55.740But at the same time, there are concerns here and we should always strive to be better and improve our public policy environment and make sure that we defend freedom of speech so that we can have these good thoughtful discussions about things rather than just sort of closing in the walls and leading everyone to one potential solution.
00:43:15.740From a policy perspective, what would the main takeaways be?
00:43:19.740Because you're talking about not one or two specific things, but really a basket or a bundle of policies here.
00:43:25.740So what would you want the takeaway to be if you were a lawmaker that had your report in front of them?
00:43:30.740I think if I'm a lawmaker, the first thing that I would take note of is the importance of protecting freedom of speech.
00:43:36.740You absolutely need that. That was the number one concern raised by survey respondents.
00:43:41.740And if you don't have freedom of speech and you don't have that free flow of ideas and contrasting the pros and cons of different policies and ideas, then that's very concerning.
00:43:56.740I think another thing to take away and one of the reasons why we created this project was because, like I said, so often academics and some politicians and activists, they paint socialism and communism in a nice bright light, whereas it's been so troublesome.
00:44:14.740I mean, there's been millions and millions of people that have died under these regimes.
00:44:18.740There's six million Venezuelans right now that have left the country and something like the average Venezuelan has lost something like 20 pounds because of the lack of food.
00:44:28.740The country's just in disarray since Hugo Chavez instituted his socialist paradise.
00:44:35.740So the thing that we've done here and we're continuing to work on is creating a resource so that people can see and hear about the end results of this type of ideology.
00:44:49.740So that hopefully we can avoid not just the clamping down on human rights and the restrictions on freedom of speech, but the centralization of government control when it comes to the means of production, running factories and farms and so forth, because it doesn't work.
00:45:04.740And, you know, we talked briefly before about China.
00:45:06.740It's an interesting case because of the past, whatever it is, 70 years, it's gone from this very collective society where lots of people were living in poverty and starving to today.
00:45:18.740I mean, China's been such a much more successful economy and people are rising out of poverty because it's going in a different direction when it comes to the economy.
00:45:29.740There's a lot more private property in China.
00:45:32.740There's businesses that are driving that economy rather than the state.
00:45:36.740So I think it's a good example of a success story that people need to be mindful of.
00:45:41.740And I know that when you're talking about a report like this, obviously quantitative data is what we're used to seeing in things.
00:45:47.740But I think the qualitative data here is so important because you're talking about people's stories that can't really be distilled into numbers.
00:45:54.740So I'm glad you've done this in a way that actually has the stories and lets people see what it is that these people are saying, because I think it's so tremendous and it paints a very vivid portrait.
00:46:13.740And if your listeners want to go and show their kids and teach them about these stories and that, all the videos and that, they're on our website, secondstreet.org slash socialism.
00:46:22.740And if any of them ever come back with a Che Guevara t-shirt, you have my authorization to confiscate it from them.