Juno News - Premiers must loudly reject federal call for mandatory vaccination

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.700 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.560 Coming up, yesterday's conspiracy theory is today's public policy.

00:00:16.560 The federal government is talking about mandatory vaccination as inevitable.

00:00:21.280 We'll talk about that and also getting kids back to the classroom.

00:00:24.140 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:33.120 Hello and welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:37.380 This is the Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:00:40.140 It is great to talk to you on the program today.

00:00:43.760 This is one of these I hate to say I told you so,

00:00:47.800 and in this case I really hate to say I told you so types of shows,

00:00:51.380 because, what was it, a couple of months ago when Austria was moving forward on mandatory vaccination,

00:00:57.540 I wrote a column, I did shows, I did interviews,

00:01:00.280 and I said, don't believe for a moment this couldn't come to Canada.

00:01:05.040 And then right on cue, we have Quebec Premier Francois Legault

00:01:08.960 coming out and saying that there's going to be a healthcare charge.

00:01:13.440 That's what he's calling it, not a vaccine mandate, but a healthcare charge.

00:01:18.100 Not just for people who haven't, this is great,

00:01:20.980 not just for people who haven't been vaccinated,

00:01:22.960 for people who haven't received the third dose.

00:01:26.000 So you could be fully vaccinated in Quebec right now,

00:01:29.740 but because they're changing the definition,

00:01:31.380 you're still going to have to pay this so-called healthcare charge.

00:01:34.240 Now, here's the clip of him saying this.

00:01:36.800 The vaccine is the key to fight the virus.

00:01:40.940 This is why we're looking for a health contribution for adults

00:01:48.820 who refuse to be vaccinated for non-medical reasons.

00:01:53.260 Those who refuse to receive their first dose in the coming weeks

00:01:58.520 will have to pay a new health contribution.

00:02:03.260 I know the situation is tough, but we can get through this together.

00:02:09.400 We need to focus our efforts on two things.

00:02:15.540 Getting the first, second, and third doses of vaccine

00:02:20.300 and reducing our contacts, especially with older people.

00:02:26.520 So I'm counting on you all.

00:02:28.520 Thank you.

00:02:29.300 And again, he's not telling you the amount it's going to be.

00:02:31.800 We don't yet know the enforcement mechanism

00:02:33.620 or how they're going to deal with it,

00:02:34.860 but this is just, I mean, basically a vaccine mandate by another name.

00:02:39.180 What happens if you don't pay the fine?

00:02:41.100 What happens if you don't pay the so-called charge?

00:02:43.520 This is, again, right on cue.

00:02:45.940 Just look at what Jean-Yves Duclos, the federal health minister, said last week.

00:02:51.420 First, it's a view which is based on my personal understanding

00:02:58.460 of what we see internationally and domestically

00:03:01.400 and in conversations with my colleagues, health ministers, over the last few weeks.

00:03:06.640 And second, it's a decision that will be made by provinces and territories at some point,

00:03:11.600 whether they move forward or not, that's going to be their decision to make.

00:03:16.320 But what we see now is that our health care system in Canada is fragile.

00:03:22.540 Our people are tired.

00:03:26.200 And the only way that we know to go through COVID-19,

00:03:32.400 this variant and any future variant is through vaccination.

00:03:36.320 You know, PPE, physical distancing, tests, rapid tests, PCR tests,

00:03:43.380 these are all very important tools.

00:03:45.300 But what will make us move through this crisis and end it is vaccination.

00:03:51.600 And I see in my own province, 50% of hospitalizations now in Quebec

00:03:58.440 are due to people not having been vaccinated.

00:04:03.020 That's a burden on health care workers, a burden on society, 0.91

00:04:06.620 which is very difficult to bear and for many people, difficult to understand.

00:04:12.920 So that's why I'm signaling this as a conversation,

00:04:17.180 which I believe provinces and territories in support with the federal government

00:04:21.700 will want to have over the next weeks and months.

00:04:24.840 So it's actually a bit odd there.

00:04:27.040 If you try to parse what he's saying,

00:04:28.780 on one hand, he's saying, well, this is just my personal opinion.

00:04:31.460 But then he's saying in his discussions with premiers,

00:04:34.540 and then he's saying he doesn't know of any discussions,

00:04:37.120 but you know what, from his discussions, it seems to be happening.

00:04:40.280 So what he's trying to say here is that this idea is not new.

00:04:44.860 This idea is circulating in the halls of political leadership in Canada

00:04:49.820 of mandating vaccination.

00:04:53.220 And again, this is not just mandating vaccination to board a plane

00:04:56.560 or to keep your job, bad as those things are.

00:04:59.120 This is mandating vaccination to exist as a citizen.

00:05:05.400 So what Austria does, they'll fine you, I think it's like, what,

00:05:08.780 7,000 euros or something if you don't get vaccinated starting in February.

00:05:14.360 Now, the interesting thing about Austria, if I can go there for just a moment,

00:05:17.700 actually, I did go there for more than a moment in November before this insanity.

00:05:22.360 But their approach is one that I find quite fascinating

00:05:26.440 because they implemented this or introduced this near the end of November,

00:05:30.380 and they say it's so important, it's so critical, vaccination we need,

00:05:34.500 but it goes into effect in February.

00:05:37.200 So it's like they're accepting the inevitable permanence of this regime

00:05:42.140 and of this pandemic when they do it.

00:05:44.320 But nevertheless, let's talk about Jean-Yves Duclos here.

00:05:47.320 So he says that they're going to do it.

00:05:49.180 Austria's approach is a huge, steep find.

00:05:51.400 You get more restrained versions of this in places like Greece

00:05:55.580 where they'll fine a senior, someone who's over 60, 100 euros a month.

00:06:01.320 The Czech Republic is doing something very similar.

00:06:04.020 So they're saying, well, yeah, you have a choice to get not vaccinated

00:06:07.520 or a choice to stay unvaccinated.

00:06:09.260 But if you make that choice, then you've got to pay, you know,

00:06:12.640 this little amount every month just so that you can put it into the healthcare system

00:06:16.480 because that's what they're trying to do.

00:06:18.060 I mean, the Austria approach is in a way better

00:06:22.700 because it just seems insane on the surface.

00:06:25.940 The Greek approach is a lot more dangerous 1.00

00:06:28.520 because a lot more people would go along with that

00:06:30.960 because they feel, oh, yeah, well, I mean, you just, it's 100 euros.

00:06:34.320 Okay, if you make the choice, you have to go.

00:06:36.500 But my approach, whether it's Austria, Greece, Czech Republic,

00:06:39.940 Germany is also mulling a mandatory vaccination as well.

00:06:43.300 And it's interesting because the Nuremberg Code, which implores,

00:06:48.460 because it obviously came in the wake of the Nuremberg trials,

00:06:51.480 experiments that were done on people by Joseph Mengele and others in the Nazi regime.

00:06:55.700 The Nuremberg Code, which a lot of people have cited in the context of vaccination

00:06:59.880 and the opposition in the Nuremberg Code to human experimentation and all of that.

00:07:05.500 And I've deliberately not gone down that road previously

00:07:09.040 because I know people will make a connection and will hear something in that

00:07:13.300 that isn't necessarily supposed to be there.

00:07:15.580 But I'm going to bring it up now

00:07:17.060 because when you're talking about mandating vaccination,

00:07:20.000 you are not just talking about, you know,

00:07:22.920 violating the prohibition on live human experimentation.

00:07:25.820 You're talking about something more fundamental,

00:07:28.520 which is the obliteration of consent,

00:07:30.580 that you no longer need to consent to a medical treatment

00:07:34.820 because the state is mandating it.

00:07:37.600 The state is making it so that you no longer have any such choice.

00:07:42.880 So Germany, of all places, should be very keenly aware of what it's doing

00:07:47.320 if it decides to go the Austria route

00:07:49.580 and prohibit the idea to make this choice for yourself,

00:07:53.760 to mandate vaccination.

00:07:55.180 But all of these countries in the world are doing this.

00:07:58.560 Now, if Canada does this, they'll probably not go the Austria route.

00:08:03.000 They'll probably go the route of, oh, you just pay a little fine.

00:08:06.040 And some people will say, well, yeah, it's still good.

00:08:08.540 You still have a choice.

00:08:09.880 But then there's the question of what happens if you don't pay the fine.

00:08:14.580 What happens?

00:08:15.360 Even if the fine is just, you know, $100 Canadian a month

00:08:18.580 if you don't get vaccinated, maybe it's $100 a year.

00:08:21.180 Who knows?

00:08:22.020 What happens if you don't pay the fine?

00:08:25.520 Right now, in most parts of the country,

00:08:27.500 if you do not pay an administrative fine,

00:08:29.880 you can be thrown to jail.

00:08:33.240 You could, as a less severe measure,

00:08:36.020 have your driver's license not renewed.

00:08:38.280 They have some power they can put over you,

00:08:40.820 but you could ultimately be thrown in jail.

00:08:44.040 So if the government makes vaccination mandatory,

00:08:47.500 even if they just put a little teeny tiny fine,

00:08:49.640 even if they just put, you know, a dime is the fine,

00:08:52.140 10 cents is the fine, doesn't matter.

00:08:54.240 Once they are mandating it,

00:08:55.960 they are crossing a threshold from which there is no turning back.

00:08:59.660 And that is that you no longer have the right to control

00:09:02.820 what goes into your own body.

00:09:04.580 You no longer have the right to make your own medical decisions.

00:09:09.260 And do not for a moment ever understate the importance of that.

00:09:16.180 Because that is key.

00:09:18.280 And for all that we've talked about,

00:09:19.960 vaccine passports and vaccine mandates,

00:09:21.760 all of these things which are terrible,

00:09:23.340 all of those pale in comparison to mandatory vaccination,

00:09:27.540 to forced medical treatment,

00:09:28.820 which is the idea that Jean-Yves Duclos is not championing.

00:09:32.140 He's saying it's just, it's out there, it's circulating.

00:09:34.760 And he personally predicts it is inevitable.

00:09:38.700 Now, his office later followed up,

00:09:41.340 according to a piece here in Radio Canada,

00:09:43.760 his office later sent out a statement and said,

00:09:46.520 well, yeah, but it's just up to the provinces.

00:09:49.420 It's just up to the provinces.

00:09:51.080 Now, the reality is the federal government could implement this if it wanted to.

00:09:55.900 It doesn't mean it wouldn't and shouldn't be challenged,

00:09:57.940 but the federal government could, you know,

00:09:59.660 use its criminal law powers in the constitution to do this.

00:10:03.140 Just as the provinces can use their public health powers.

00:10:05.920 Now, this obviously comes down to premiers now needing to say,

00:10:10.900 and Canadians should be demanding the premiers say,

00:10:13.760 heck no to this.

00:10:15.080 Yes, the first and most vocal was Jason Kenney,

00:10:18.560 who tweeted his opposition to this.

00:10:20.780 He said on Twitter,

00:10:21.900 Alberta's legislature removed the power of mandatory vaccination

00:10:25.540 from the Public Health Act last year

00:10:27.620 and will not revisit that decision, period.

00:10:30.620 While we strongly encourage those who are eligible to get vaccinated,

00:10:34.860 it is ultimately a personal choice that individuals must make.

00:10:39.500 Now, those are strong words,

00:10:40.700 and obviously I'm not going to knock him for them

00:10:43.160 because I'm glad he's saying that.

00:10:44.780 I want to see more of that from his colleagues across the country.

00:10:48.580 Scott Moe as well in Saskatchewan said,

00:10:50.900 we strongly encourage everyone to get vaccinated,

00:10:53.340 but in Saskatchewan, this is a personal choice.

00:10:57.160 Well, the problem is that both Scott Moe and Jason Kenney

00:11:00.480 also said that when it came time to denounce the vaccine passports,

00:11:04.740 which they did for months,

00:11:05.860 Kenny and Moe said,

00:11:07.460 yeah, you know what, in Alberta and Saskatchewan,

00:11:09.820 that's not how we do things.

00:11:11.040 And both of those provinces still have a vaccine passport regime.

00:11:16.600 So this idea of being against it before they were for it

00:11:20.240 is something that was there with vaccine passports.

00:11:22.700 So I'm a little bit unnerved,

00:11:25.040 even if they're saying no to mandatory vaccination,

00:11:28.340 knowing what's happened in the past.

00:11:30.280 So, I mean, certainly you've got to keep up the pressure there.

00:11:32.680 Ontario, I asked Doug Ford's spokesperson, Ivana Yellett,

00:11:37.100 she did not respond to me.

00:11:38.560 I haven't seen anything about what Ontario's doing with this

00:11:41.460 elsewhere in media coverage.

00:11:44.040 BC, Bonnie Henry, the chief medical officer there,

00:11:47.540 has said that she wants to get out of the mandate business altogether.

00:11:51.080 Again, BC said that previously,

00:11:53.440 and here we are with a BC vaccine passport.

00:11:56.960 I want to play a clip from a January 9th interview

00:11:59.440 with New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs on Evan Solomon's CTV show.

00:12:04.320 This interview has a lot.

00:12:06.520 I think it's like 55 seconds or whatever,

00:12:08.620 but there's a lot packed into that

00:12:10.420 that we will need to unpack in a moment.

00:12:12.400 But first, take a look at the clip.

00:12:13.780 I'm in the case that if you can accommodate,

00:12:15.880 you know, we always thought 90% or so was,

00:12:18.180 at one time we thought 75% was herd immunity

00:12:20.480 and then it went to 90%.

00:12:22.260 So it is 90% the right number.

00:12:24.600 And if we have 90% people that are fully vaccinated

00:12:27.160 and continue to be so,

00:12:29.400 and that allows society to function as normally,

00:12:32.100 then that's fine.

00:12:33.200 But we haven't gotten to that point.

00:12:35.400 So if we continually have outbreaks

00:12:37.420 because of the 10% that refuse to be vaccinated,

00:12:40.720 then we have to go to the next level.

00:12:42.740 So I would say accommodation is,

00:12:44.580 you know, you look at flu shots,

00:12:45.820 you look at a lot of things that we do as routine.

00:12:48.820 This needs to be routine,

00:12:50.080 but we have to decide first and know

00:12:52.660 that would that 10% be jeopardizing our health system?

00:12:56.180 And right today,

00:12:57.080 I think because we haven't stabilized

00:12:58.660 with this COVID virus,

00:13:01.100 we don't know that,

00:13:02.440 but that is a key factor on how hard you need to go.

00:13:05.200 So that was New Brunswick Premier Blaine Hague.

00:13:07.860 So first off, he defends the moving goalposts.

00:13:10.280 He's like, oh yeah, we used to think it was 75.

00:13:12.200 Now we think it's 90.

00:13:13.320 Maybe we'll get to 90 and find that that doesn't work either.

00:13:15.740 And then we'll have to do something else.

00:13:17.280 So he's acknowledging these moving goalposts

00:13:20.220 and defending them and saying,

00:13:21.900 yeah, we have no idea.

00:13:22.920 Maybe there will be outbreaks.

00:13:24.420 Maybe there won't be.

00:13:25.840 But then he's also saying something here,

00:13:28.080 which is that if they get to 90%

00:13:30.580 and if they're still COVID,

00:13:32.400 then we will have to go to the next level.

00:13:35.680 And in the context of talking about accommodations

00:13:38.100 for people that can't or don't want to get vaccinated,

00:13:40.800 it sounds like, not explicitly,

00:13:43.060 he's alluding to mandating it to go after those holdouts.

00:13:47.500 But again, they're talking about it in this world,

00:13:49.860 a 90% vaccination rate.

00:13:52.160 And he's saying, yeah, but we got to get those last 10.

00:13:55.280 So of all the different changes

00:13:57.400 and all of those different locations for the goalposts,

00:14:00.820 the one now that we're seeing is 100% vaccination.

00:14:04.460 You know, two weeks to flatten the curve,

00:14:06.040 just a couple of weeks longer,

00:14:07.340 when there's a vaccine,

00:14:09.080 when 75% of people are vaccinated,

00:14:12.520 when cases are down.

00:14:13.760 Now it's when there's zero COVID

00:14:15.540 and then when there's 100% vaccination,

00:14:17.620 these are all of these things.

00:14:18.980 But a lot of these are just completely mythical ideals.

00:14:22.040 They're not possible.

00:14:23.720 They are not possible.

00:14:25.260 We're not going to see 100% vaccination rate.

00:14:29.340 I mean, even if you do mandate it outright,

00:14:31.460 you're just not going to get there.

00:14:33.060 That is not a realistic expectation

00:14:36.260 when people do, for whatever reason,

00:14:38.620 have their issues with this and other vaccines.

00:14:41.540 But New Brunswick is entertaining the idea

00:14:45.000 of taking something to the higher level.

00:14:47.720 Not a higher level, but to the next level.

00:14:50.080 That's where New Brunswick's going.

00:14:51.560 So with this on the table,

00:14:53.820 in a couple of provinces,

00:14:55.300 and by the way, more often than not,

00:14:56.820 the provinces haven't said anything at all.

00:14:58.700 I mean, I don't know how PEI or Newfoundland

00:15:01.700 are feeling about this.

00:15:03.480 I don't know how Manitoba is feeling about this.

00:15:06.580 And we're reaching out.

00:15:07.420 We're trying to get an answer on this

00:15:08.660 because I want every single premier in this country

00:15:12.320 to stand up and say what Jason Kenney said,

00:15:15.520 which is absolutely no, in no uncertain terms.

00:15:18.080 And here's what I would ask them.

00:15:19.400 And if I ever go back on this,

00:15:21.440 I am going to resign.

00:15:24.480 That's what premiers should do. 0.98

00:15:25.760 They should stake their political legacy,

00:15:28.760 their political careers,

00:15:29.940 their political power on this idea.

00:15:32.380 Every premier should be able to take a stand

00:15:34.000 and say I oppose mandatory vaccination.

00:15:36.560 And if I ever change my mind on that,

00:15:39.100 I'm going to resign

00:15:39.640 because clearly I am unfit for public office

00:15:42.420 if I go back on my word like that.

00:15:44.320 That's what needs to happen here.

00:15:45.900 I'm not optimistic,

00:15:46.920 but that is absolutely what needs to happen.

00:15:49.160 And I go back to a story

00:15:50.460 we've talked about a number of times

00:15:52.020 when in Ontario,

00:15:53.000 the provincial government gave police forces

00:15:55.980 the power to stop and question people.

00:15:58.840 It was around the time of the second or third

00:16:00.920 or, I don't know, 47th stay-at-home order.

00:16:03.500 And they gave police the power

00:16:04.840 to stop and question people

00:16:06.800 about why they're outside of their homes.

00:16:09.340 And in the span of,

00:16:10.840 I think it was like 48 hours,

00:16:13.140 every single Ontario municipal police force,

00:16:17.100 everyone from the London, Ontario police,

00:16:20.700 the Ottawa police, the Toronto police,

00:16:22.520 to small towns,

00:16:23.560 every single one of them said,

00:16:25.060 we are absolutely not going to do this.

00:16:27.640 And that was important

00:16:29.200 because when every single police department

00:16:31.500 is saying we are not going to avail ourselves

00:16:33.720 of this power that you've given,

00:16:35.700 that is what leads to the power becoming nullified

00:16:38.120 and the province later backtracked.

00:16:40.080 So I think something very similar

00:16:41.400 needs to happen here.

00:16:42.660 The federal government drops a hot potato

00:16:45.200 or just a grenade,

00:16:46.580 a live grenade in the laps of the premier saying,

00:16:49.340 yeah, I think that mandatory vaccination

00:16:51.660 is coming down the pipeline,

00:16:53.060 but it's these folks here that are going to do it.

00:16:55.780 Every premier should be standing up

00:16:57.540 and saying, yeah, no, no, I'm not.

00:17:00.440 No, we're not.

00:17:00.980 We're not doing that.

00:17:02.060 We don't support mandatory vaccination.

00:17:04.420 I mean, if I were a premier,

00:17:05.460 I'd be looking at the federal government

00:17:06.660 and saying, you want mandatory vaccination,

00:17:08.220 you do it.

00:17:09.360 You do it.

00:17:10.060 So it's like the federal government

00:17:11.500 is trying to give a marching order here.

00:17:13.760 They don't want their hands dirty

00:17:15.560 by something they clearly support.

00:17:18.020 So again, and I don't have any inside knowledge here.

00:17:21.000 I'm not saying at the first minister's meeting,

00:17:22.820 there was an agenda item

00:17:24.740 about mandatory vaccination.

00:17:26.440 But the fact that more premiers

00:17:28.080 are not denouncing this suggests

00:17:29.520 that perhaps what Duclos was saying

00:17:32.180 is true,

00:17:33.620 that this discussion is taking place,

00:17:35.320 even just in a small way.

00:17:38.420 So every single person in this country

00:17:40.820 needs to demand of their MPs,

00:17:43.260 their MPPs,

00:17:44.380 their MLAs,

00:17:45.400 their MNAs.

00:17:46.380 I think there's another M something A. 1.00

00:17:48.500 But every elected representative

00:17:50.220 you have federally and provincially,

00:17:51.680 you should be asking right now,

00:17:54.160 will you take a stand on record

00:17:56.420 and denounce mandatory vaccination?

00:18:00.960 And remember,

00:18:01.940 I talked months ago

00:18:03.000 about that Webster dictionary had changed

00:18:05.380 or was it Webster or Merriam

00:18:07.500 or whatever it was.

00:18:08.360 They had changed the definition

00:18:09.700 of anti-vaxxer

00:18:10.600 to anyone who opposes a vaccine mandate.

00:18:12.900 Never has it been more important

00:18:14.420 to divide vaccination

00:18:16.340 and mandatory vaccination.

00:18:18.580 The mandatory is the part

00:18:20.240 that I care about.

00:18:20.920 You can make your own decision

00:18:22.040 on vaccination.

00:18:22.980 That's your right.

00:18:23.980 But the mandatory,

00:18:25.520 absolutely everyone

00:18:26.780 should oppose that.

00:18:27.720 Even if you're fully vaccinated,

00:18:29.440 boosted,

00:18:29.940 you could be triple-dosed,

00:18:31.180 quadruple-dosed.

00:18:32.080 You could have two Pfizer's,

00:18:33.620 a Moderna,

00:18:34.140 an AstraZeneca,

00:18:35.060 and a Sputnik for good measure.

00:18:36.620 And you should still be saying

00:18:37.940 that was your choice to make,

00:18:40.360 not the government's.

00:18:43.220 From Pierre Trudeau's

00:18:44.320 great proclamation

00:18:45.020 to the government

00:18:45.880 has to stay outside

00:18:47.080 the bedrooms of the nation.

00:18:48.540 Justin Trudeau's,

00:18:49.400 dramatic,

00:18:50.580 dramatic proclamation.

00:18:51.980 Let me play it for you.

00:18:52.760 His dramatic proclamation

00:18:53.820 of a woman's right

00:18:55.140 to choose to have an abortion.

00:18:56.420 This country is a country

00:18:57.720 of openness,

00:18:58.680 of respect,

00:18:59.960 of compassion,

00:19:01.200 of the rule of law,

00:19:03.300 of the rights of the individuals,

00:19:05.020 of freedom.

00:19:06.680 Freedom from fear,

00:19:08.820 freedom from crime,

00:19:10.580 freedom to love who you want

00:19:12.040 and not be judged for it,

00:19:14.380 freedom to do what you want

00:19:15.820 with your body.

00:19:16.420 Oh, there you have it.

00:19:17.980 Yeah, a woman, 1.00

00:19:18.660 everyone,

00:19:19.600 everyone has the right

00:19:20.580 to do what they want

00:19:21.420 with their own body.

00:19:22.980 Well,

00:19:23.520 except when it comes

00:19:24.640 to vaccination.

00:19:26.560 That's where things have gotten.

00:19:28.720 So yet again,

00:19:29.580 yesterday's conspiracy theory

00:19:30.980 is today's public policy.

00:19:33.000 As I said at the beginning

00:19:33.900 of the show,

00:19:34.360 it brings me no joy

00:19:35.620 to say I told you so,

00:19:37.140 but I did.

00:19:38.200 Now let's take a stand.

00:19:39.560 When we come back,

00:19:40.400 we will be talking

00:19:41.120 about kids in schools

00:19:42.720 and perhaps some good news

00:19:44.280 on the horizon.

00:19:44.940 And we'll talk about that

00:19:45.720 straight ahead.

00:19:46.420 Stay with me.

00:19:49.960 You're tuned in

00:19:51.080 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:19:55.240 Welcome back to the program.

00:19:57.080 This is The Andrew Lawton Show

00:19:58.520 here on True North.

00:20:00.220 And in my province of Ontario,

00:20:02.420 kids are still out of school.

00:20:04.220 One story came out last night,

00:20:06.660 which suggests they may be

00:20:07.860 headed back on schedule

00:20:09.440 on next Monday.

00:20:11.460 So in just about six days

00:20:13.420 from now,

00:20:13.840 the problem is that

00:20:15.180 this government tends

00:20:16.140 to flip-flop,

00:20:17.320 you know,

00:20:17.560 seven or eight times

00:20:18.360 before it lands

00:20:19.020 on what it wants to do.

00:20:20.280 And more importantly,

00:20:21.320 I don't think they can

00:20:22.100 at all say a week out

00:20:23.460 what they're going

00:20:24.200 to be doing in a week

00:20:25.720 unless they're just making

00:20:27.020 this purely

00:20:27.520 for political reasons.

00:20:28.800 But nevertheless,

00:20:30.360 other provinces

00:20:30.960 are doing very similar things.

00:20:32.740 They're talking about

00:20:33.420 sending kids back

00:20:34.240 on January 17th,

00:20:35.980 the 10th.

00:20:36.440 We'll get to the list

00:20:37.240 in a moment.

00:20:37.760 But the reality is

00:20:39.320 kids in schools

00:20:40.740 has become

00:20:42.040 one of the

00:20:42.920 trans-political

00:20:44.380 and trans-ideological

00:20:45.780 issues of the COVID era

00:20:47.780 that I think

00:20:48.480 is one of the big reasons

00:20:49.580 that the tide is turning,

00:20:51.160 as I've been saying

00:20:51.720 for the last few weeks

00:20:52.700 in the pandemic.

00:20:54.080 People are very much

00:20:56.160 angered by this.

00:20:58.040 Parents who are not

00:20:58.980 conservatives

00:20:59.760 by any stretch,

00:21:00.620 they're not fire-breathing

00:21:01.460 libertarians,

00:21:03.000 they're parents

00:21:03.660 who love their kids.

00:21:04.780 And they're turning

00:21:06.640 on the alarmists

00:21:08.500 in the lockdown crowd

00:21:09.420 I think over this issue

00:21:10.680 when kids once again

00:21:11.880 are plucked

00:21:12.820 from the classroom

00:21:13.540 and forced to sit

00:21:14.520 on Zoom all day

00:21:15.840 like adults

00:21:17.320 who are miserable

00:21:17.900 enough doing that

00:21:18.820 but kids in particular

00:21:20.120 who need the socialization.

00:21:21.480 Kids like being around

00:21:22.300 other people.

00:21:22.880 Adults certainly

00:21:23.940 of a certain age don't.

00:21:25.600 So that's where we are now.

00:21:26.880 It's changing

00:21:27.620 but governments

00:21:28.780 are still beholden

00:21:30.260 to a lot of the people

00:21:31.160 that think that

00:21:31.840 kids are just

00:21:32.960 disease vectors

00:21:33.700 and shouldn't be

00:21:34.280 in their schools.

00:21:34.880 So I want to talk

00:21:35.780 about this

00:21:36.120 because there's been

00:21:36.780 a growing campaign

00:21:38.000 and we've seen rallies

00:21:39.700 across the country

00:21:40.720 of people trying

00:21:41.620 to put kids

00:21:42.680 back in the classroom

00:21:43.900 where they belong

00:21:45.280 during the school year.

00:21:46.220 One of the big advocates

00:21:47.040 here has been

00:21:47.660 Bronwyn Alsop

00:21:48.460 who's the founder

00:21:49.400 of the Ontario Families

00:21:50.720 Coalition

00:21:51.100 and joins me now.

00:21:52.800 Bronwyn, it's good

00:21:53.620 to talk to you.

00:21:54.100 Thanks very much

00:21:54.660 for coming on today.

00:21:56.200 Thank you for having me.

00:21:57.620 Why is this

00:21:58.980 such an important issue?

00:22:00.780 Because, you know,

00:22:01.520 for all that we've been

00:22:02.200 consumed by lockdown

00:22:03.200 in general,

00:22:04.560 the one that really

00:22:05.620 seems to be triggering

00:22:06.520 a lot of emotion

00:22:07.340 and a lot of parents

00:22:08.180 across the province

00:22:09.060 and the country

00:22:09.600 right now

00:22:10.160 is kids yet again

00:22:12.020 being pulled out of school.

00:22:13.920 Yes, it's very unfortunate

00:22:15.520 again that our children

00:22:16.640 have been dragged

00:22:17.340 through politics

00:22:18.400 completely throughout

00:22:19.540 this pandemic.

00:22:20.300 Their mental health

00:22:21.020 has completely been ignored

00:22:22.100 and unfortunately

00:22:23.440 we've ignored science

00:22:24.700 and having the longest

00:22:25.940 school closures

00:22:26.700 across Canada.

00:22:27.680 Ontario has been

00:22:29.240 completely failing

00:22:30.580 our children

00:22:31.160 by having these

00:22:32.400 continuous school closures

00:22:33.760 for such long times

00:22:34.960 and it has to stop.

00:22:36.900 We've been doing

00:22:37.860 everything we can

00:22:38.700 throughout this pandemic

00:22:39.500 who myself

00:22:40.780 have been advocating

00:22:41.660 to keep schools closed

00:22:43.440 and we've had petitions

00:22:45.100 that have had

00:22:45.740 tremendous success

00:22:47.000 in numbers.

00:22:47.900 People are angry

00:22:49.440 and upset

00:22:50.020 but still

00:22:50.660 it doesn't seem

00:22:51.740 to change anything

00:22:52.980 with our board

00:22:55.800 where he makes decisions

00:22:57.380 when he's put under pressure

00:22:59.040 and he ignores science

00:23:00.720 and he makes political decisions

00:23:02.380 that override science

00:23:03.820 and that's just wrong.

00:23:04.780 You need to follow science

00:23:05.940 and make sure

00:23:07.040 that our kids

00:23:07.660 have in-person learning

00:23:08.900 and that's for all ages

00:23:10.700 not just for children

00:23:13.200 that are vaccinated

00:23:14.140 that are in high school age

00:23:16.320 who have had that advantage

00:23:17.320 to have the double dose

00:23:18.460 but for all ages

00:23:20.040 from JK

00:23:20.640 to grade 12

00:23:21.920 all ages need to be back 1.00

00:23:23.420 in school

00:23:23.880 absolutely no later

00:23:24.960 than January 17th.

00:23:26.620 Every day counts.

00:23:27.860 There are two injustices here.

00:23:30.240 One is the actual issue

00:23:32.220 you just touched on there

00:23:33.260 which is shutting down school

00:23:34.820 and all of the issues

00:23:35.860 that come along with that.

00:23:37.040 The other has been

00:23:38.080 the lack of consistent

00:23:40.100 and coherent messaging

00:23:41.500 on these things

00:23:42.380 and just the complete yo-yoing.

00:23:44.680 Ontario is a great example.

00:23:46.220 It's the province

00:23:46.760 in which you and I live.

00:23:48.280 We were hearing

00:23:49.220 as of I think it was what

00:23:50.380 like January 1st

00:23:53.440 or December 31st

00:23:54.660 or whenever it was

00:23:55.400 that we were going

00:23:56.600 to be getting

00:23:57.100 just a little two-day bump

00:23:59.100 that the school year

00:23:59.900 was going to be pushed back

00:24:00.900 from January 3rd

00:24:01.900 to January 5th

00:24:02.940 and then that week

00:24:04.140 we hear okay

00:24:04.800 actually it's going

00:24:05.940 to be two weeks

00:24:06.560 that they're going

00:24:06.940 to be online.

00:24:07.800 So within the matter

00:24:08.460 of three days

00:24:09.820 the policy

00:24:11.880 had just completely reversed.

00:24:13.640 I mean how are parents

00:24:14.300 supposed to plan

00:24:15.120 when you're just getting

00:24:16.420 such a completely sporadic

00:24:18.720 or erratic approach

00:24:20.320 to policy?

00:24:22.240 It's ridiculous.

00:24:23.460 Unfortunately I wish

00:24:24.360 I could say I was shocked

00:24:25.480 when that happened

00:24:26.640 but it seems to be

00:24:27.440 a consistent tendency

00:24:28.480 with how our government works

00:24:29.820 is that they like

00:24:30.860 to keep us on the edge.

00:24:32.260 There is no rhyme or reason

00:24:34.120 to follow through

00:24:35.140 on something.

00:24:35.900 So I personally

00:24:37.020 because I've been advocating

00:24:38.440 for schools to open

00:24:39.460 for two years now

00:24:40.960 I knew that the day

00:24:42.000 that he said,

00:24:42.660 Kieran Moore,

00:24:43.680 I agreed with everything

00:24:44.520 he said

00:24:45.040 and I said finally

00:24:45.880 schools will be open

00:24:46.740 on January 5th.

00:24:47.720 I trusted him

00:24:48.600 but I did not trust

00:24:50.480 what was going to happen

00:24:51.480 in that two-day gap.

00:24:52.860 I knew that my kids

00:24:53.860 would not be going

00:24:54.580 to school

00:24:55.040 because I knew

00:24:56.320 immediately

00:24:56.880 as soon as that news hit

00:24:58.140 that there would be

00:24:59.100 other people

00:24:59.780 who are advocating

00:25:01.100 to keep schools closed

00:25:02.680 until they have

00:25:03.720 measures put in place

00:25:05.460 that they want to have

00:25:06.680 while they're in school

00:25:07.920 on the first day

00:25:08.920 and not wait in due time

00:25:10.360 like other essential workers

00:25:11.580 to have these things

00:25:12.420 delivered to them.

00:25:13.260 So Colin Furness's letter

00:25:15.220 really unfortunately

00:25:16.780 went off on hot fire

00:25:18.100 advocating for medical

00:25:20.680 officers of health

00:25:21.460 to push to keep schools

00:25:22.640 closed for longer

00:25:23.460 and then that also

00:25:24.620 was a domino effect

00:25:26.060 with the OSSTF

00:25:27.440 and EFTO

00:25:28.260 also advocating

00:25:29.640 to keep schools closed

00:25:30.920 until they had the N95s, 0.96

00:25:33.160 until they had HEPA filters,

00:25:34.780 until they had,

00:25:36.120 I think even vaccinations

00:25:37.660 for younger ages

00:25:39.220 was also on that list

00:25:40.340 and to have educators

00:25:41.460 and to have educators

00:25:41.480 also vaccinated

00:25:42.500 before January 5th.

00:25:44.600 And I think I even saw

00:25:46.040 smaller class sizes

00:25:47.360 which is completely

00:25:48.280 not going to happen

00:25:49.020 within the next 20 years

00:25:50.140 so they always put that in.

00:25:52.100 So I saw the dream list

00:25:53.820 come out

00:25:54.340 and I knew that we were

00:25:56.120 going to be royally screwed

00:25:57.420 because I knew that

00:25:58.500 it was already being lobbied

00:25:59.920 and that people were trying

00:26:02.220 to do everything they could.

00:26:03.560 Who wanted schools closed,

00:26:04.860 they were doing everything

00:26:05.860 they could

00:26:06.380 so we had a letter prepared

00:26:08.140 to try and advocate

00:26:09.540 against that

00:26:11.400 and we were sending it.

00:26:12.860 We also thought

00:26:13.600 Section 22 was going to happen

00:26:15.060 but that didn't even go forward

00:26:17.480 because Ford didn't go that far

00:26:19.640 to keep forward with his plan

00:26:21.460 but I basically had no faith

00:26:23.360 that what Dr. Kieran Moore said

00:26:25.480 which I agreed with

00:26:26.420 following science

00:26:27.360 was going to happen

00:26:28.040 so I knew we were going to end up

00:26:30.140 into a complete bomb

00:26:31.380 and the stress of that

00:26:32.940 myself as a parent

00:26:34.080 and advocate

00:26:34.640 and it was just rocking me

00:26:36.520 because we were all

00:26:37.200 watching this sort of bomb

00:26:38.820 happen online on Twitter.

00:26:40.740 I don't know if you were observing it

00:26:41.880 but on Sunday night

00:26:42.960 we all knew that

00:26:44.080 something was not going to happen

00:26:45.620 properly for our kids this week

00:26:47.360 and then we got the final news

00:26:49.640 because it was being leaked everywhere.

00:26:51.060 The stress was awful

00:26:53.080 and intense

00:26:53.840 and it's just a roller coaster

00:26:55.500 for all of us

00:26:56.300 and I'm also an early childhood educator.

00:26:59.420 I have been working

00:27:00.340 throughout this entire pandemic

00:27:01.580 without any of these things

00:27:03.560 that my children's schools

00:27:05.720 have put in place.

00:27:07.360 I don't have N95s accessible to me.

00:27:09.480 I don't have HEPA filters.

00:27:11.040 We just have windows open.

00:27:12.840 I work with unvaccinated 0.99

00:27:14.180 unmasked kids all day

00:27:15.580 so for me

00:27:16.920 when I leave my home every day

00:27:18.460 and I'm thinking

00:27:19.560 I'm going to teach my students

00:27:21.640 and I want to be there

00:27:22.940 in the conditions I'm in

00:27:24.440 and I'm proud to be there

00:27:25.860 but at the same time

00:27:26.720 I'm deserting my children

00:27:27.900 where they have better conditions

00:27:29.980 than I have at my work

00:27:31.360 and they are staring at a screen

00:27:32.980 where they could be safer in school.

00:27:35.240 Dr. Kieran Moore

00:27:36.440 completely was spot on.

00:27:38.700 Kids are safer in school.

00:27:41.280 That is something

00:27:42.080 that seems to be pushed aside

00:27:44.260 and ignored

00:27:44.800 throughout this pandemic

00:27:45.920 and that is what we need to remember

00:27:47.880 because right now

00:27:48.780 kids are not safe.

00:27:49.940 They're going...

00:27:50.800 People have gone to Florida

00:27:52.240 if they can.

00:27:53.540 People have gone to learning pods.

00:27:55.180 People who have been into this

00:27:57.120 and have the privilege to

00:27:58.180 have not wanting

00:28:00.280 to tolerate this anymore.

00:28:01.540 So how is that safe?

00:28:03.220 And it's not.

00:28:04.880 You touched on

00:28:06.020 a very important point

00:28:07.020 though there Bronwyn

00:28:07.780 which is that

00:28:08.560 you're not arguing

00:28:09.500 and people who want kids

00:28:10.680 back in school

00:28:11.280 are not saying that

00:28:12.520 you know

00:28:13.000 we just want this

00:28:13.980 in spite of the science.

00:28:15.600 The arguments

00:28:16.280 you're advancing

00:28:17.000 are that the science

00:28:18.200 supports school

00:28:19.480 being a safe place

00:28:21.160 for students right now.

00:28:22.700 Exactly.

00:28:23.180 That is the safest place.

00:28:25.300 They have

00:28:25.740 the most safest

00:28:27.440 sort of measures

00:28:29.320 already put in place

00:28:30.500 compared to places

00:28:31.400 that are already open

00:28:32.420 which essential workers

00:28:33.660 like myself daycares

00:28:34.660 don't have

00:28:35.320 and we should be open.

00:28:37.120 Daycares and schools

00:28:38.360 are essential

00:28:39.320 and we as ECEs

00:28:41.500 don't have a union

00:28:42.380 and that's why

00:28:43.300 we have been open

00:28:44.080 throughout the entire pandemic

00:28:45.240 because we don't have anyone

00:28:46.760 advocating to close us

00:28:47.980 constantly, thank God.

00:28:49.480 So it's really a blessing

00:28:50.500 for me

00:28:50.980 because I want to be

00:28:51.780 with my students

00:28:52.380 but at the same time

00:28:53.420 that's the political part

00:28:54.960 that overrides the science

00:28:56.380 is that our schools

00:28:57.300 are constantly closed

00:28:58.380 because we're dragging

00:29:00.100 everything in

00:29:01.160 that people from

00:29:02.380 their political agenda

00:29:04.480 want during this pandemic

00:29:05.920 to sort of bring in

00:29:08.080 to push our kids

00:29:09.100 to not have in-person learning

00:29:10.620 and it's

00:29:11.280 I want smaller class sizes

00:29:13.240 everyone wants that

00:29:14.180 for their kids

00:29:14.740 but that is not going to happen

00:29:16.280 you know

00:29:16.920 it's just not a realistic goal

00:29:18.680 to happen

00:29:19.220 and not something

00:29:19.920 we should keep dragging

00:29:20.820 into our list

00:29:21.960 that we want to check off

00:29:23.180 in a short time frame.

00:29:24.940 If I can jump in there

00:29:25.680 there are a lot of parents

00:29:26.840 in this province

00:29:27.560 and grandparents

00:29:28.420 and aunts and uncles

00:29:29.540 and I think more and more

00:29:30.840 of them

00:29:31.280 are turning against

00:29:32.780 the Ontario government

00:29:33.860 by the day

00:29:34.660 in fact every day

00:29:35.660 that this school

00:29:36.300 shut down

00:29:37.360 this supposedly

00:29:38.480 at this point

00:29:39.140 two week shutdown

00:29:39.920 goes on

00:29:40.480 more parents

00:29:41.120 are turning against

00:29:42.040 the government

00:29:42.460 so if it is being done

00:29:44.040 for political reasons

00:29:45.320 and from a political agenda

00:29:46.720 who's the constituency

00:29:47.720 who's winning from this?

00:29:50.080 It doesn't make any sense

00:29:51.300 I don't

00:29:52.460 I think Ford

00:29:53.660 was doing this originally

00:29:54.840 for maybe

00:29:55.440 what pushed him over

00:29:56.880 in the political decision

00:29:58.020 to close schools

00:29:59.260 I don't know

00:30:00.060 I think it was

00:30:00.720 the political pressure

00:30:01.620 I think he's being lobbied

00:30:02.760 I maybe

00:30:03.920 I have no idea

00:30:05.320 what drove him

00:30:06.420 originally to do this

00:30:07.180 maybe it was possibility

00:30:08.320 the medical side

00:30:10.200 thinking of capacity

00:30:11.380 maybe that was something

00:30:12.380 that made his decision

00:30:13.460 because of being overwhelmed

00:30:15.240 in the hospital

00:30:15.900 was the shortages

00:30:16.860 I don't know

00:30:17.740 the specifics

00:30:18.260 but there was

00:30:19.740 this doesn't make sense

00:30:21.240 why our kids

00:30:22.040 are constantly

00:30:22.960 going through this

00:30:23.620 with the school closures

00:30:24.540 where other essential workers

00:30:25.920 are managing

00:30:27.660 and not closing

00:30:28.560 I mean

00:30:29.360 we have staff shortages

00:30:30.680 at work

00:30:31.180 there's lots of people

00:30:32.160 who are going through shortages

00:30:33.120 but we're still open

00:30:34.520 and it just

00:30:35.600 the sort of hypothetical

00:30:37.380 possibilities

00:30:38.580 of the worst case scenario

00:30:40.100 always seem to get

00:30:41.040 in the way

00:30:41.580 of moving forward

00:30:42.480 and opening schools

00:30:43.420 and that is the biggest problem

00:30:45.680 as soon as they said

00:30:46.420 they're not going to open schools

00:30:47.620 we knew we were going

00:30:48.440 into this repeat

00:30:49.440 of what we've gone through

00:30:50.460 for the last two years

00:30:51.460 where it's not two weeks

00:30:52.580 it's not two days

00:30:53.700 it could be four weeks

00:30:54.840 it could be six weeks

00:30:55.820 it could be eight weeks

00:30:56.760 they'll come up

00:30:57.800 with every sort of different

00:30:58.940 sort of excuse

00:31:00.260 and that's

00:31:01.660 we've had it

00:31:02.600 I've had it a long time ago

00:31:04.140 but you're right

00:31:04.860 it's shifting

00:31:06.040 where it was last year

00:31:07.560 where people were scared

00:31:08.560 to speak out

00:31:09.300 and to be honest

00:31:10.520 about how damaging

00:31:11.620 this was to kids

00:31:12.660 and now there are people

00:31:14.440 who are coming out

00:31:15.520 being vocal

00:31:16.880 that this cannot

00:31:17.640 keep happening anymore

00:31:18.740 yeah it's ridiculous

00:31:20.600 you know we're at

00:31:21.800 we're at now

00:31:22.440 coming up on two years

00:31:24.200 since the first lockdown

00:31:25.940 in Ontario

00:31:26.860 the first shutdown of schools

00:31:28.200 and most lockdowns

00:31:29.820 in Canada

00:31:30.380 were imposed

00:31:30.980 around that same time

00:31:31.960 March 2020

00:31:32.700 and you know

00:31:34.100 as much as adults

00:31:34.940 I think rightfully complain

00:31:36.140 about the effect

00:31:36.780 it's had on our lives

00:31:37.780 our livelihoods

00:31:38.620 our families

00:31:39.180 and all of that

00:31:40.120 you're very keenly aware

00:31:42.300 that for children

00:31:43.340 it's a lot different

00:31:44.700 it's a greater proportion

00:31:46.300 of your life

00:31:46.940 the younger you are

00:31:47.960 that's been consumed by this

00:31:49.840 if you're six years old

00:31:51.020 you have been in school

00:31:52.040 for a couple years

00:31:52.740 this is all you know

00:31:53.800 even if you're eight

00:31:55.080 nine years old

00:31:55.900 this is now becoming

00:31:57.020 more and more

00:31:58.060 of a share

00:31:58.800 of your time in school

00:32:00.700 and we may not

00:32:02.100 and again

00:32:02.620 I realize this is

00:32:03.640 a terrible scenario

00:32:04.680 no one wants to envision

00:32:05.720 but we may not

00:32:06.840 totally know

00:32:07.920 the negative impact

00:32:09.700 and the scope of this

00:32:10.940 for years to come

00:32:12.060 when we see that

00:32:12.880 socially and educationally

00:32:14.700 a pretty critical point

00:32:16.500 in children's lives

00:32:17.540 has just not been there

00:32:19.080 yes it's definitely

00:32:20.540 I would

00:32:21.540 when I say

00:32:22.060 we're focusing on schools

00:32:24.260 that is our main focus

00:32:25.320 so with school closures

00:32:26.580 it's definitely going to be

00:32:27.840 haunting them

00:32:28.460 in ways they don't know

00:32:29.640 for long term

00:32:30.680 or this has become

00:32:31.700 their new norm

00:32:32.540 for them unfortunately

00:32:33.660 so they don't understand

00:32:34.820 the confusion

00:32:35.440 you know

00:32:35.720 why can't I go to swimming

00:32:36.800 one day

00:32:37.160 or why can't I go to school

00:32:38.240 one day

00:32:38.580 it's the inconsistency

00:32:40.200 and being an early

00:32:41.020 childhood educator

00:32:41.840 I understand

00:32:42.620 kids need structure

00:32:43.760 routine

00:32:44.320 they thrive on it

00:32:45.580 that's how they learn

00:32:46.340 so having the inconsistency

00:32:48.520 for two years

00:32:49.580 you know

00:32:50.160 almost marking

00:32:50.920 two years of this flip-flopping

00:32:52.520 is just very damaging

00:32:53.940 for them

00:32:54.420 and it's delaying them

00:32:55.380 with their education

00:32:56.940 and early development

00:32:58.160 even and especially

00:32:59.680 for older kids

00:33:00.740 as well

00:33:01.060 for teens

00:33:01.580 this is affecting all ages

00:33:02.920 I have younger kids

00:33:03.960 that are four and six

00:33:04.920 both with special needs

00:33:05.940 and it really rocks them

00:33:07.680 but I know

00:33:08.140 but I know other families

00:33:08.900 of my friends

00:33:09.880 and they have teens

00:33:10.920 and it's rocking

00:33:11.900 their structure

00:33:12.640 and routines as well

00:33:14.260 so all ages need 0.91

00:33:15.440 to be back in school

00:33:16.360 and we need to

00:33:17.840 you know

00:33:18.420 schools never should

00:33:19.760 have been closed

00:33:20.580 because they are essential

00:33:21.620 and they're always

00:33:22.540 the first lockdown

00:33:23.420 that we had

00:33:24.480 with schools closing

00:33:25.400 everything shut down

00:33:26.340 everyone was not

00:33:27.460 understanding

00:33:27.980 what was happening

00:33:28.680 it was a very

00:33:29.700 you know

00:33:30.420 we didn't understand

00:33:31.900 what was happening

00:33:32.400 we're all scared

00:33:33.140 and after that

00:33:34.520 that should have been

00:33:35.060 the last time

00:33:35.700 that schools were closed

00:33:36.620 and we thought

00:33:37.400 from a medical perspective

00:33:38.520 that people

00:33:39.560 you know

00:33:40.020 there was

00:33:40.400 the evidence

00:33:41.660 and science

00:33:42.360 the staring

00:33:42.980 everyone in the face

00:33:43.780 there's not

00:33:44.240 there's very small group

00:33:45.740 of medical professionals

00:33:46.820 that support school closures

00:33:48.440 there's pretty much

00:33:49.340 unanimous

00:33:50.020 that schools

00:33:51.040 should always open

00:33:52.320 and it's just

00:33:53.640 I don't understand

00:33:54.840 I do understand

00:33:56.160 it's the politics

00:33:56.840 so I understand why

00:33:57.880 but I want to

00:33:59.340 to be brought up

00:34:00.800 and called out

00:34:01.580 that it's enough

00:34:02.620 we can't do this

00:34:03.460 to our kids anymore

00:34:04.200 they have to be in school

00:34:05.660 and the damage

00:34:07.120 is going to haunt them

00:34:07.960 unfortunately

00:34:08.420 and I hope that

00:34:09.340 early intervention

00:34:11.040 is thereafter

00:34:11.820 for support for them

00:34:12.800 because it's going to be

00:34:13.460 affecting their mental health

00:34:14.600 for quite some time

00:34:15.680 just finally

00:34:17.200 we look at the

00:34:17.940 national landscape here

00:34:19.220 you had Saskatchewan

00:34:20.320 which didn't close schools

00:34:21.360 at all

00:34:21.780 Alberta put a bit

00:34:22.680 of a bit of a pause

00:34:23.660 and they came back

00:34:24.520 I think as of yesterday

00:34:26.300 a lot of provinces

00:34:27.760 in Canada

00:34:28.280 seem to be doing

00:34:29.000 what Ontario's doing

00:34:30.060 which is put in

00:34:31.080 that little two-week delay

00:34:32.340 here

00:34:32.700 are you optimistic

00:34:34.240 that common sense

00:34:35.260 will prevail here

00:34:36.140 and that at the end

00:34:36.720 of that two weeks

00:34:37.400 they'll be back

00:34:38.080 or do you fear

00:34:38.820 I don't

00:34:39.660 I don't

00:34:40.180 yeah

00:34:40.380 and the reason

00:34:41.220 we're different

00:34:41.840 is because

00:34:42.680 EFTO

00:34:44.800 and OSSTF

00:34:46.100 are

00:34:47.140 these are the big unions

00:34:48.760 just for those

00:34:49.340 not familiar with them

00:34:50.260 yeah

00:34:50.480 sorry yes

00:34:51.460 yeah

00:34:52.180 it's become

00:34:52.800 it rolls off my tongue

00:34:53.780 now

00:34:53.960 yeah

00:34:54.460 so the unions

00:34:55.060 in Ontario

00:34:55.680 are the biggest

00:34:56.760 the most controlling

00:34:57.820 and they make

00:34:58.620 the most money

00:34:59.320 out of all of them

00:35:00.040 across North America

00:35:00.980 so there's a lot

00:35:01.600 of power there

00:35:02.280 so it's like

00:35:03.820 their own political party

00:35:05.040 that's at play here

00:35:05.960 that is bigger

00:35:06.900 Alberta does not have that

00:35:08.440 other provinces

00:35:10.120 don't have it

00:35:10.860 Ontario is very unique

00:35:12.240 so unfortunately

00:35:13.280 that's why

00:35:14.740 we have been

00:35:16.220 in this mess

00:35:16.800 for so long

00:35:17.520 is because

00:35:17.980 it's not just

00:35:18.880 following science

00:35:20.160 there's other

00:35:20.880 people behind the scenes

00:35:22.800 who are putting

00:35:23.300 intense pressure

00:35:24.120 to keep schools

00:35:25.920 closed constantly

00:35:27.160 for their own

00:35:28.160 political benefit

00:35:29.060 and I support

00:35:30.760 everything they want

00:35:31.660 implemented into schools

00:35:32.860 but you do it

00:35:35.540 while the doors are open

00:35:36.700 like we do today

00:35:38.300 if we wanted to get

00:35:39.280 N95s 1.00

00:35:40.120 if we were going

00:35:40.740 to order them

00:35:41.300 you still show up

00:35:42.260 to work

00:35:42.660 and you wait

00:35:43.160 till they're there

00:35:43.780 and you don't

00:35:44.540 just close everything

00:35:45.460 it's just not

00:35:46.260 the way you happen

00:35:47.160 and nurses 0.99

00:35:47.580 are doing that as well

00:35:48.440 they don't have access

00:35:49.320 to N95s 1.00

00:35:50.340 unless they're in the ICU

00:35:51.280 but they're still open

00:35:52.620 there's still

00:35:53.220 obviously a hospital

00:35:54.820 you can't close

00:35:55.520 but grocery stores

00:35:56.680 don't have N95s

00:35:57.900 there's TTC workers

00:35:59.560 in Toronto

00:36:00.040 do not have N95s

00:36:01.440 they're all running

00:36:02.500 while they're waiting

00:36:03.460 for these things

00:36:04.100 to happen

00:36:04.600 so it just

00:36:05.800 there's no excuse

00:36:06.860 but it's the power

00:36:08.040 of the money

00:36:08.820 that's driving these

00:36:09.840 that is always

00:36:10.680 the pressure

00:36:11.260 where they have

00:36:11.780 these resources

00:36:12.500 to constantly

00:36:14.700 put that pressure

00:36:15.600 on it

00:36:16.020 and that's the

00:36:16.700 unfortunate part

00:36:17.560 that I don't know

00:36:19.180 how it's going

00:36:19.660 to change

00:36:20.120 but it's depressing

00:36:21.740 to see how

00:36:22.420 it's just

00:36:22.820 completely

00:36:23.260 taken over

00:36:24.180 our children's

00:36:25.360 best interests

00:36:26.180 and their mental

00:36:26.700 health

00:36:26.980 and rocking it

00:36:27.620 because they are

00:36:28.440 the power ones

00:36:29.240 here

00:36:29.440 and it pushes

00:36:30.300 forward

00:36:30.820 in my

00:36:31.360 to make

00:36:33.200 decisions

00:36:34.200 that are not

00:36:34.880 following science

00:36:35.800 I don't know

00:36:36.500 if he thinks

00:36:36.900 he's going to

00:36:37.320 sway a huge

00:36:38.020 vote of union

00:36:38.900 members for the

00:36:39.600 election

00:36:39.920 but I certainly

00:36:41.220 can tell him

00:36:42.200 that he's lost

00:36:42.980 many PC supporters

00:36:44.400 throughout this

00:36:45.560 pandemic

00:36:45.980 with school

00:36:47.360 closures

00:36:47.840 because people

00:36:48.500 who did

00:36:48.880 support him

00:36:49.440 before

00:36:49.800 with their

00:36:51.440 kids being

00:36:52.000 out of school

00:36:52.480 for so long

00:36:53.360 will never

00:36:54.200 support him

00:36:54.840 again unless

00:36:55.500 he wakes up

00:36:56.280 and realizes

00:36:56.900 that he cannot

00:36:57.680 do this anymore

00:36:58.420 and he needs

00:36:58.820 to open it

00:36:59.380 for all ages

00:37:00.140 this is going

00:37:01.580 to ruin him

00:37:02.240 politically

00:37:02.700 well yeah

00:37:03.820 and again

00:37:04.640 on a side note

00:37:05.580 I think a lot

00:37:06.080 of these union

00:37:06.560 members are also

00:37:07.400 parents themselves

00:37:08.320 surely

00:37:08.680 like they're

00:37:09.120 dealing with

00:37:09.620 they must see

00:37:10.700 this with their

00:37:11.220 own children

00:37:11.760 the teachers

00:37:12.700 that are doing

00:37:13.280 Zoom school

00:37:13.880 may have the

00:37:14.520 next room over

00:37:15.140 their own kids

00:37:15.860 that are students

00:37:16.740 in Zoom school

00:37:17.660 and when I say

00:37:18.960 unions I want

00:37:20.240 to be clear

00:37:20.800 I don't ever

00:37:21.660 mean individual

00:37:22.620 educators as well

00:37:23.900 because I have

00:37:24.460 tons of friends

00:37:25.540 who are members

00:37:26.620 of the union

00:37:27.140 but they want

00:37:27.700 to go back

00:37:28.080 no that's an

00:37:29.000 important point

00:37:29.400 I've never

00:37:29.800 seen such a great

00:37:30.900 divide as between

00:37:31.840 the teachers union

00:37:32.660 and the individual

00:37:33.320 teachers

00:37:33.940 yeah and that's

00:37:36.280 the part where

00:37:36.880 they I have

00:37:37.840 friends that are

00:37:38.600 you know just

00:37:39.340 beside themselves

00:37:40.140 where they they

00:37:40.860 are watching their

00:37:41.560 kids crumble

00:37:42.140 they're watching

00:37:42.720 their students

00:37:43.320 crumble and it's

00:37:44.760 they are trapped

00:37:45.460 themselves in the

00:37:46.680 system where they

00:37:47.440 have no voice

00:37:48.160 because it has

00:37:48.820 risk for their

00:37:49.380 job so and that's

00:37:51.020 where I'm thankful

00:37:51.940 I'm not a part of

00:37:52.860 that in a union

00:37:53.580 where I don't have

00:37:54.440 that you know

00:37:55.340 thankfully so I

00:37:56.420 feel for them

00:37:57.300 but what do they

00:37:58.440 do it's like they

00:37:59.260 need to come out

00:38:00.160 on mass themselves

00:38:01.300 to speak out

00:38:03.120 against this

00:38:03.880 where and I

00:38:04.820 don't know

00:38:05.140 what the risks

00:38:05.680 are you don't

00:38:06.140 want to lose

00:38:06.520 your income

00:38:06.940 you don't want

00:38:07.340 to lose

00:38:07.580 your job

00:38:08.000 so there's

00:38:08.500 a lot of

00:38:08.900 risks on that

00:38:09.560 because throughout

00:38:10.660 this pandemic

00:38:11.220 I've had so

00:38:11.860 many people

00:38:12.260 come in to me

00:38:12.840 and say

00:38:13.100 shh you know

00:38:13.860 thank you

00:38:14.440 keep doing

00:38:15.300 what you're

00:38:15.620 doing

00:38:15.940 but they can't

00:38:17.300 speak out

00:38:17.820 and they can't

00:38:18.600 give their name

00:38:19.180 and it's just

00:38:20.080 it's deeply

00:38:21.120 saddening

00:38:21.760 to see that

00:38:22.420 you know

00:38:22.700 there's that

00:38:23.140 much control

00:38:23.860 and I think

00:38:24.540 that's also

00:38:25.220 was what we

00:38:26.120 were going

00:38:26.680 through in the

00:38:27.120 beginning of

00:38:27.580 the pandemic

00:38:28.040 where there were

00:38:29.160 so many medical

00:38:30.140 professionals as

00:38:30.960 well with their

00:38:31.860 association who

00:38:32.720 wanted to speak

00:38:33.460 out as well

00:38:34.100 and there was

00:38:34.520 only a select

00:38:35.240 few people

00:38:35.880 who really

00:38:36.920 were always

00:38:37.820 going no matter

00:38:38.820 what for the

00:38:39.500 sake of our

00:38:40.020 kids and really

00:38:40.920 those medical

00:38:41.880 professionals

00:38:42.440 are the people

00:38:43.540 and advocates

00:38:44.500 and people who

00:38:45.280 really do stand

00:38:46.160 out and go

00:38:47.160 across for the

00:38:47.980 risks are the

00:38:48.520 ones who are

00:38:48.980 going to be

00:38:49.340 remembered in my

00:38:50.040 opinion through

00:38:50.680 history for

00:38:51.360 saving our

00:38:51.960 children and

00:38:52.480 doing everything

00:38:53.020 they could

00:38:53.560 and it has a

00:38:55.460 lot of risk

00:38:56.040 now for you

00:38:56.900 but later on

00:38:57.780 your children

00:38:58.620 will remember

00:38:59.220 this in history

00:38:59.840 and that's

00:39:00.440 where I think

00:39:00.920 it is

00:39:01.220 but there's

00:39:01.800 a huge shift

00:39:02.620 I think

00:39:02.960 with medical

00:39:03.420 professionals

00:39:03.960 that you know

00:39:05.440 with that letter

00:39:06.080 that Dr.

00:39:06.720 Alana Golden

00:39:07.240 sent out

00:39:07.900 and totally

00:39:09.320 led herself

00:39:10.260 to get

00:39:10.940 doctors to

00:39:11.620 sign the

00:39:12.440 amount of

00:39:12.860 signatures that

00:39:13.520 happened in

00:39:14.140 under 24

00:39:14.780 hours was

00:39:15.500 huge because

00:39:16.680 you could tell

00:39:17.240 doctors that

00:39:18.160 had kids

00:39:18.740 were done

00:39:19.440 so that's

00:39:20.300 why it's

00:39:21.540 just shifting

00:39:22.080 now thank

00:39:22.740 God for our

00:39:23.340 kids

00:39:23.600 very well

00:39:24.780 said Bronwyn

00:39:25.400 Alsop from

00:39:26.080 the Ontario

00:39:26.780 Families

00:39:27.220 Coalition

00:39:27.560 thanks so

00:39:28.060 much for your

00:39:28.400 work on this

00:39:28.900 truly

00:39:29.200 thank you so

00:39:30.100 much

00:39:30.340 thank you

00:39:30.720 take care

00:39:31.160 so I don't

00:39:31.960 have kids

00:39:32.580 I have

00:39:33.000 nephews

00:39:33.420 I see the

00:39:34.080 impact there

00:39:34.680 my sister-in-law

00:39:36.260 shared a photo

00:39:37.220 of my oldest

00:39:39.080 nephew's

00:39:39.860 scowling face

00:39:40.880 as he was

00:39:41.320 sitting at his

00:39:41.820 laptop the first

00:39:42.680 day back

00:39:43.200 because he

00:39:44.180 doesn't want to

00:39:44.780 be there

00:39:45.100 I mean it's

00:39:45.640 funny because

00:39:46.140 as a kid

00:39:46.660 I remember

00:39:47.520 school is not

00:39:49.420 a thing you

00:39:50.080 love I mean

00:39:50.700 you love your

00:39:51.140 summer vacation

00:39:51.860 your winter

00:39:52.380 breaks your

00:39:52.960 weekends but

00:39:53.700 if it's taken

00:39:54.880 away from you

00:39:55.720 as it has

00:39:56.640 been for kids

00:39:57.420 for so long

00:39:58.340 it's something

00:39:59.420 that you're

00:39:59.920 losing and

00:40:00.640 obviously the

00:40:01.200 kids themselves

00:40:02.020 are very aware

00:40:02.980 of what they're

00:40:03.420 missing but I

00:40:04.640 meant that point

00:40:05.560 I raised with

00:40:06.140 Bronwyn I mean

00:40:06.800 it may take

00:40:07.260 years before we

00:40:08.120 start to see

00:40:08.760 I've just heard

00:40:09.780 anecdotally from

00:40:10.920 a couple of

00:40:11.540 people I know

00:40:11.980 in academia that

00:40:12.840 they say essay

00:40:13.980 quality writing

00:40:15.120 has gone down in

00:40:16.900 first year university

00:40:17.760 students because

00:40:18.580 they weren't

00:40:19.480 getting a really

00:40:20.620 critical education

00:40:21.600 they needed in

00:40:22.260 their latter year

00:40:23.100 of high school

00:40:23.680 and just imagine

00:40:25.060 this at a point

00:40:25.960 at which development

00:40:26.720 is still very much

00:40:27.740 happening for younger

00:40:28.580 kids what are they

00:40:29.680 missing socially

00:40:30.720 educationally

00:40:31.700 reading writing

00:40:32.540 what's the caliber

00:40:33.780 of the education

00:40:34.680 the access they're

00:40:35.800 losing to early

00:40:37.480 childhood educators

00:40:38.520 for kids that have

00:40:39.540 more direct needs

00:40:41.280 with that again

00:40:42.180 you don't need to

00:40:43.080 have kids to

00:40:44.220 understand just

00:40:45.560 how devastating

00:40:46.640 this is and

00:40:47.660 how cowardly

00:40:48.960 how cowardly the

00:40:50.080 politicians are for

00:40:51.640 caving to the

00:40:52.640 dictatorship when

00:40:54.860 everyone else in

00:40:56.160 the province

00:40:56.760 including most

00:40:57.600 people who do

00:40:58.380 deal in science

00:40:59.680 for a living are

00:41:00.340 saying keep the

00:41:01.140 schools open

00:41:01.720 kids are not

00:41:02.560 vectors kids are

00:41:03.860 not these just

00:41:04.580 instruments of

00:41:05.280 disease the risks

00:41:06.860 of shutting them

00:41:07.860 out of school

00:41:08.680 outweigh the risks

00:41:09.700 of keeping them

00:41:10.440 in school this is

00:41:11.760 so simple yet

00:41:13.080 government seem to

00:41:13.860 be missing it so

00:41:14.540 good on Saskatchewan

00:41:15.480 and Alberta and

00:41:16.740 most of the US

00:41:17.900 for realizing that

00:41:19.060 we've got to end

00:41:19.960 things there my

00:41:20.520 thanks to all of

00:41:21.480 you for tuning

00:41:22.160 into the show

00:41:22.620 today we'll be

00:41:23.160 back in a couple

00:41:24.000 days time with

00:41:25.160 more of Canada's

00:41:26.080 most irreverent

00:41:27.020 talk show here on

00:41:27.860 true north thank

00:41:28.500 you god bless and

00:41:29.580 good day to you

00:41:30.160 all thanks for

00:41:31.100 listening to the

00:41:31.700 Andrew Lawton

00:41:32.300 show support the

00:41:33.340 program by donating

00:41:34.220 to true north at

00:41:35.140 www.tnc.news

Juno News - January 12, 2022

Premiers must loudly reject federal call for mandatory vaccination

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