Juno News - January 12, 2022


Premiers must loudly reject federal call for mandatory vaccination


Episode Stats

Length

41 minutes

Words per Minute

180.88727

Word Count

7,531

Sentence Count

278

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

8


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:06.700 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.560 Coming up, yesterday's conspiracy theory is today's public policy.
00:00:16.560 The federal government is talking about mandatory vaccination as inevitable.
00:00:21.280 We'll talk about that and also getting kids back to the classroom.
00:00:24.140 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:33.120 Hello and welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:37.380 This is the Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.
00:00:40.140 It is great to talk to you on the program today.
00:00:43.760 This is one of these I hate to say I told you so,
00:00:47.800 and in this case I really hate to say I told you so types of shows,
00:00:51.380 because, what was it, a couple of months ago when Austria was moving forward on mandatory vaccination,
00:00:57.540 I wrote a column, I did shows, I did interviews,
00:01:00.280 and I said, don't believe for a moment this couldn't come to Canada.
00:01:05.040 And then right on cue, we have Quebec Premier Francois Legault
00:01:08.960 coming out and saying that there's going to be a healthcare charge.
00:01:13.440 That's what he's calling it, not a vaccine mandate, but a healthcare charge.
00:01:18.100 Not just for people who haven't, this is great,
00:01:20.980 not just for people who haven't been vaccinated,
00:01:22.960 for people who haven't received the third dose.
00:01:26.000 So you could be fully vaccinated in Quebec right now,
00:01:29.740 but because they're changing the definition,
00:01:31.380 you're still going to have to pay this so-called healthcare charge.
00:01:34.240 Now, here's the clip of him saying this.
00:01:36.800 The vaccine is the key to fight the virus.
00:01:40.940 This is why we're looking for a health contribution for adults
00:01:48.820 who refuse to be vaccinated for non-medical reasons.
00:01:53.260 Those who refuse to receive their first dose in the coming weeks
00:01:58.520 will have to pay a new health contribution.
00:02:03.260 I know the situation is tough, but we can get through this together.
00:02:09.400 We need to focus our efforts on two things.
00:02:15.540 Getting the first, second, and third doses of vaccine
00:02:20.300 and reducing our contacts, especially with older people.
00:02:26.520 So I'm counting on you all.
00:02:28.520 Thank you.
00:02:29.300 And again, he's not telling you the amount it's going to be.
00:02:31.800 We don't yet know the enforcement mechanism
00:02:33.620 or how they're going to deal with it,
00:02:34.860 but this is just, I mean, basically a vaccine mandate by another name.
00:02:39.180 What happens if you don't pay the fine?
00:02:41.100 What happens if you don't pay the so-called charge?
00:02:43.520 This is, again, right on cue.
00:02:45.940 Just look at what Jean-Yves Duclos, the federal health minister, said last week.
00:02:51.420 First, it's a view which is based on my personal understanding
00:02:58.460 of what we see internationally and domestically
00:03:01.400 and in conversations with my colleagues, health ministers, over the last few weeks.
00:03:06.640 And second, it's a decision that will be made by provinces and territories at some point,
00:03:11.600 whether they move forward or not, that's going to be their decision to make.
00:03:16.320 But what we see now is that our health care system in Canada is fragile.
00:03:22.540 Our people are tired.
00:03:26.200 And the only way that we know to go through COVID-19,
00:03:32.400 this variant and any future variant is through vaccination.
00:03:36.320 You know, PPE, physical distancing, tests, rapid tests, PCR tests,
00:03:43.380 these are all very important tools.
00:03:45.300 But what will make us move through this crisis and end it is vaccination.
00:03:51.600 And I see in my own province, 50% of hospitalizations now in Quebec
00:03:58.440 are due to people not having been vaccinated.
00:04:03.020 That's a burden on health care workers, a burden on society,
00:04:06.620 which is very difficult to bear and for many people, difficult to understand.
00:04:12.920 So that's why I'm signaling this as a conversation,
00:04:17.180 which I believe provinces and territories in support with the federal government
00:04:21.700 will want to have over the next weeks and months.
00:04:24.840 So it's actually a bit odd there.
00:04:27.040 If you try to parse what he's saying,
00:04:28.780 on one hand, he's saying, well, this is just my personal opinion.
00:04:31.460 But then he's saying in his discussions with premiers,
00:04:34.540 and then he's saying he doesn't know of any discussions,
00:04:37.120 but you know what, from his discussions, it seems to be happening.
00:04:40.280 So what he's trying to say here is that this idea is not new.
00:04:44.860 This idea is circulating in the halls of political leadership in Canada
00:04:49.820 of mandating vaccination.
00:04:53.220 And again, this is not just mandating vaccination to board a plane
00:04:56.560 or to keep your job, bad as those things are.
00:04:59.120 This is mandating vaccination to exist as a citizen.
00:05:05.400 So what Austria does, they'll fine you, I think it's like, what,
00:05:08.780 7,000 euros or something if you don't get vaccinated starting in February.
00:05:14.360 Now, the interesting thing about Austria, if I can go there for just a moment,
00:05:17.700 actually, I did go there for more than a moment in November before this insanity.
00:05:22.360 But their approach is one that I find quite fascinating
00:05:26.440 because they implemented this or introduced this near the end of November,
00:05:30.380 and they say it's so important, it's so critical, vaccination we need,
00:05:34.500 but it goes into effect in February.
00:05:37.200 So it's like they're accepting the inevitable permanence of this regime
00:05:42.140 and of this pandemic when they do it.
00:05:44.320 But nevertheless, let's talk about Jean-Yves Duclos here.
00:05:47.320 So he says that they're going to do it.
00:05:49.180 Austria's approach is a huge, steep find.
00:05:51.400 You get more restrained versions of this in places like Greece
00:05:55.580 where they'll fine a senior, someone who's over 60, 100 euros a month.
00:06:01.320 The Czech Republic is doing something very similar.
00:06:04.020 So they're saying, well, yeah, you have a choice to get not vaccinated
00:06:07.520 or a choice to stay unvaccinated.
00:06:09.260 But if you make that choice, then you've got to pay, you know,
00:06:12.640 this little amount every month just so that you can put it into the healthcare system
00:06:16.480 because that's what they're trying to do.
00:06:18.060 I mean, the Austria approach is in a way better
00:06:22.700 because it just seems insane on the surface.
00:06:25.940 The Greek approach is a lot more dangerous
00:06:28.520 because a lot more people would go along with that
00:06:30.960 because they feel, oh, yeah, well, I mean, you just, it's 100 euros.
00:06:34.320 Okay, if you make the choice, you have to go.
00:06:36.500 But my approach, whether it's Austria, Greece, Czech Republic,
00:06:39.940 Germany is also mulling a mandatory vaccination as well.
00:06:43.300 And it's interesting because the Nuremberg Code, which implores,
00:06:48.460 because it obviously came in the wake of the Nuremberg trials,
00:06:51.480 experiments that were done on people by Joseph Mengele and others in the Nazi regime.
00:06:55.700 The Nuremberg Code, which a lot of people have cited in the context of vaccination
00:06:59.880 and the opposition in the Nuremberg Code to human experimentation and all of that.
00:07:05.500 And I've deliberately not gone down that road previously
00:07:09.040 because I know people will make a connection and will hear something in that
00:07:13.300 that isn't necessarily supposed to be there.
00:07:15.580 But I'm going to bring it up now
00:07:17.060 because when you're talking about mandating vaccination,
00:07:20.000 you are not just talking about, you know,
00:07:22.920 violating the prohibition on live human experimentation.
00:07:25.820 You're talking about something more fundamental,
00:07:28.520 which is the obliteration of consent,
00:07:30.580 that you no longer need to consent to a medical treatment
00:07:34.820 because the state is mandating it.
00:07:37.600 The state is making it so that you no longer have any such choice.
00:07:42.880 So Germany, of all places, should be very keenly aware of what it's doing
00:07:47.320 if it decides to go the Austria route
00:07:49.580 and prohibit the idea to make this choice for yourself,
00:07:53.760 to mandate vaccination.
00:07:55.180 But all of these countries in the world are doing this.
00:07:58.560 Now, if Canada does this, they'll probably not go the Austria route.
00:08:03.000 They'll probably go the route of, oh, you just pay a little fine.
00:08:06.040 And some people will say, well, yeah, it's still good.
00:08:08.540 You still have a choice.
00:08:09.880 But then there's the question of what happens if you don't pay the fine.
00:08:14.580 What happens?
00:08:15.360 Even if the fine is just, you know, $100 Canadian a month
00:08:18.580 if you don't get vaccinated, maybe it's $100 a year.
00:08:21.180 Who knows?
00:08:22.020 What happens if you don't pay the fine?
00:08:25.520 Right now, in most parts of the country,
00:08:27.500 if you do not pay an administrative fine,
00:08:29.880 you can be thrown to jail.
00:08:33.240 You could, as a less severe measure,
00:08:36.020 have your driver's license not renewed.
00:08:38.280 They have some power they can put over you,
00:08:40.820 but you could ultimately be thrown in jail.
00:08:44.040 So if the government makes vaccination mandatory,
00:08:47.500 even if they just put a little teeny tiny fine,
00:08:49.640 even if they just put, you know, a dime is the fine,
00:08:52.140 10 cents is the fine, doesn't matter.
00:08:54.240 Once they are mandating it,
00:08:55.960 they are crossing a threshold from which there is no turning back.
00:08:59.660 And that is that you no longer have the right to control
00:09:02.820 what goes into your own body.
00:09:04.580 You no longer have the right to make your own medical decisions.
00:09:09.260 And do not for a moment ever understate the importance of that.
00:09:16.180 Because that is key.
00:09:18.280 And for all that we've talked about,
00:09:19.960 vaccine passports and vaccine mandates,
00:09:21.760 all of these things which are terrible,
00:09:23.340 all of those pale in comparison to mandatory vaccination,
00:09:27.540 to forced medical treatment,
00:09:28.820 which is the idea that Jean-Yves Duclos is not championing.
00:09:32.140 He's saying it's just, it's out there, it's circulating.
00:09:34.760 And he personally predicts it is inevitable.
00:09:38.700 Now, his office later followed up,
00:09:41.340 according to a piece here in Radio Canada,
00:09:43.760 his office later sent out a statement and said,
00:09:46.520 well, yeah, but it's just up to the provinces.
00:09:49.420 It's just up to the provinces.
00:09:51.080 Now, the reality is the federal government could implement this if it wanted to.
00:09:55.900 It doesn't mean it wouldn't and shouldn't be challenged,
00:09:57.940 but the federal government could, you know,
00:09:59.660 use its criminal law powers in the constitution to do this.
00:10:03.140 Just as the provinces can use their public health powers.
00:10:05.920 Now, this obviously comes down to premiers now needing to say,
00:10:10.900 and Canadians should be demanding the premiers say,
00:10:13.760 heck no to this.
00:10:15.080 Yes, the first and most vocal was Jason Kenney,
00:10:18.560 who tweeted his opposition to this.
00:10:20.780 He said on Twitter,
00:10:21.900 Alberta's legislature removed the power of mandatory vaccination
00:10:25.540 from the Public Health Act last year
00:10:27.620 and will not revisit that decision, period.
00:10:30.620 While we strongly encourage those who are eligible to get vaccinated,
00:10:34.860 it is ultimately a personal choice that individuals must make.
00:10:39.500 Now, those are strong words,
00:10:40.700 and obviously I'm not going to knock him for them
00:10:43.160 because I'm glad he's saying that.
00:10:44.780 I want to see more of that from his colleagues across the country.
00:10:48.580 Scott Moe as well in Saskatchewan said,
00:10:50.900 we strongly encourage everyone to get vaccinated,
00:10:53.340 but in Saskatchewan, this is a personal choice.
00:10:57.160 Well, the problem is that both Scott Moe and Jason Kenney
00:11:00.480 also said that when it came time to denounce the vaccine passports,
00:11:04.740 which they did for months,
00:11:05.860 Kenny and Moe said,
00:11:07.460 yeah, you know what, in Alberta and Saskatchewan,
00:11:09.820 that's not how we do things.
00:11:11.040 And both of those provinces still have a vaccine passport regime.
00:11:16.600 So this idea of being against it before they were for it
00:11:20.240 is something that was there with vaccine passports.
00:11:22.700 So I'm a little bit unnerved,
00:11:25.040 even if they're saying no to mandatory vaccination,
00:11:28.340 knowing what's happened in the past.
00:11:30.280 So, I mean, certainly you've got to keep up the pressure there.
00:11:32.680 Ontario, I asked Doug Ford's spokesperson, Ivana Yellett,
00:11:37.100 she did not respond to me.
00:11:38.560 I haven't seen anything about what Ontario's doing with this
00:11:41.460 elsewhere in media coverage.
00:11:44.040 BC, Bonnie Henry, the chief medical officer there,
00:11:47.540 has said that she wants to get out of the mandate business altogether.
00:11:51.080 Again, BC said that previously,
00:11:53.440 and here we are with a BC vaccine passport.
00:11:56.960 I want to play a clip from a January 9th interview
00:11:59.440 with New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs on Evan Solomon's CTV show.
00:12:04.320 This interview has a lot.
00:12:06.520 I think it's like 55 seconds or whatever,
00:12:08.620 but there's a lot packed into that
00:12:10.420 that we will need to unpack in a moment.
00:12:12.400 But first, take a look at the clip.
00:12:13.780 I'm in the case that if you can accommodate,
00:12:15.880 you know, we always thought 90% or so was,
00:12:18.180 at one time we thought 75% was herd immunity
00:12:20.480 and then it went to 90%.
00:12:22.260 So it is 90% the right number.
00:12:24.600 And if we have 90% people that are fully vaccinated
00:12:27.160 and continue to be so,
00:12:29.400 and that allows society to function as normally,
00:12:32.100 then that's fine.
00:12:33.200 But we haven't gotten to that point.
00:12:35.400 So if we continually have outbreaks
00:12:37.420 because of the 10% that refuse to be vaccinated,
00:12:40.720 then we have to go to the next level.
00:12:42.740 So I would say accommodation is,
00:12:44.580 you know, you look at flu shots,
00:12:45.820 you look at a lot of things that we do as routine.
00:12:48.820 This needs to be routine,
00:12:50.080 but we have to decide first and know
00:12:52.660 that would that 10% be jeopardizing our health system?
00:12:56.180 And right today,
00:12:57.080 I think because we haven't stabilized
00:12:58.660 with this COVID virus,
00:13:01.100 we don't know that,
00:13:02.440 but that is a key factor on how hard you need to go.
00:13:05.200 So that was New Brunswick Premier Blaine Hague.
00:13:07.860 So first off, he defends the moving goalposts.
00:13:10.280 He's like, oh yeah, we used to think it was 75.
00:13:12.200 Now we think it's 90.
00:13:13.320 Maybe we'll get to 90 and find that that doesn't work either.
00:13:15.740 And then we'll have to do something else.
00:13:17.280 So he's acknowledging these moving goalposts
00:13:20.220 and defending them and saying,
00:13:21.900 yeah, we have no idea.
00:13:22.920 Maybe there will be outbreaks.
00:13:24.420 Maybe there won't be.
00:13:25.840 But then he's also saying something here,
00:13:28.080 which is that if they get to 90%
00:13:30.580 and if they're still COVID,
00:13:32.400 then we will have to go to the next level.
00:13:35.680 And in the context of talking about accommodations
00:13:38.100 for people that can't or don't want to get vaccinated,
00:13:40.800 it sounds like, not explicitly,
00:13:43.060 he's alluding to mandating it to go after those holdouts.
00:13:47.500 But again, they're talking about it in this world,
00:13:49.860 a 90% vaccination rate.
00:13:52.160 And he's saying, yeah, but we got to get those last 10.
00:13:55.280 So of all the different changes
00:13:57.400 and all of those different locations for the goalposts,
00:14:00.820 the one now that we're seeing is 100% vaccination.
00:14:04.460 You know, two weeks to flatten the curve,
00:14:06.040 just a couple of weeks longer,
00:14:07.340 when there's a vaccine,
00:14:09.080 when 75% of people are vaccinated,
00:14:12.520 when cases are down.
00:14:13.760 Now it's when there's zero COVID
00:14:15.540 and then when there's 100% vaccination,
00:14:17.620 these are all of these things.
00:14:18.980 But a lot of these are just completely mythical ideals.
00:14:22.040 They're not possible.
00:14:23.720 They are not possible.
00:14:25.260 We're not going to see 100% vaccination rate.
00:14:29.340 I mean, even if you do mandate it outright,
00:14:31.460 you're just not going to get there.
00:14:33.060 That is not a realistic expectation
00:14:36.260 when people do, for whatever reason,
00:14:38.620 have their issues with this and other vaccines.
00:14:41.540 But New Brunswick is entertaining the idea
00:14:45.000 of taking something to the higher level.
00:14:47.720 Not a higher level, but to the next level.
00:14:50.080 That's where New Brunswick's going.
00:14:51.560 So with this on the table,
00:14:53.820 in a couple of provinces,
00:14:55.300 and by the way, more often than not,
00:14:56.820 the provinces haven't said anything at all.
00:14:58.700 I mean, I don't know how PEI or Newfoundland
00:15:01.700 are feeling about this.
00:15:03.480 I don't know how Manitoba is feeling about this.
00:15:06.580 And we're reaching out.
00:15:07.420 We're trying to get an answer on this
00:15:08.660 because I want every single premier in this country
00:15:12.320 to stand up and say what Jason Kenney said,
00:15:15.520 which is absolutely no, in no uncertain terms.
00:15:18.080 And here's what I would ask them.
00:15:19.400 And if I ever go back on this,
00:15:21.440 I am going to resign.
00:15:24.480 That's what premiers should do.
00:15:25.760 They should stake their political legacy,
00:15:28.760 their political careers,
00:15:29.940 their political power on this idea.
00:15:32.380 Every premier should be able to take a stand
00:15:34.000 and say I oppose mandatory vaccination.
00:15:36.560 And if I ever change my mind on that,
00:15:39.100 I'm going to resign
00:15:39.640 because clearly I am unfit for public office
00:15:42.420 if I go back on my word like that.
00:15:44.320 That's what needs to happen here.
00:15:45.900 I'm not optimistic,
00:15:46.920 but that is absolutely what needs to happen.
00:15:49.160 And I go back to a story
00:15:50.460 we've talked about a number of times
00:15:52.020 when in Ontario,
00:15:53.000 the provincial government gave police forces
00:15:55.980 the power to stop and question people.
00:15:58.840 It was around the time of the second or third
00:16:00.920 or, I don't know, 47th stay-at-home order.
00:16:03.500 And they gave police the power
00:16:04.840 to stop and question people
00:16:06.800 about why they're outside of their homes.
00:16:09.340 And in the span of,
00:16:10.840 I think it was like 48 hours,
00:16:13.140 every single Ontario municipal police force,
00:16:17.100 everyone from the London, Ontario police,
00:16:20.700 the Ottawa police, the Toronto police,
00:16:22.520 to small towns,
00:16:23.560 every single one of them said,
00:16:25.060 we are absolutely not going to do this.
00:16:27.640 And that was important
00:16:29.200 because when every single police department
00:16:31.500 is saying we are not going to avail ourselves
00:16:33.720 of this power that you've given,
00:16:35.700 that is what leads to the power becoming nullified
00:16:38.120 and the province later backtracked.
00:16:40.080 So I think something very similar
00:16:41.400 needs to happen here.
00:16:42.660 The federal government drops a hot potato
00:16:45.200 or just a grenade,
00:16:46.580 a live grenade in the laps of the premier saying,
00:16:49.340 yeah, I think that mandatory vaccination
00:16:51.660 is coming down the pipeline,
00:16:53.060 but it's these folks here that are going to do it.
00:16:55.780 Every premier should be standing up
00:16:57.540 and saying, yeah, no, no, I'm not.
00:17:00.440 No, we're not.
00:17:00.980 We're not doing that.
00:17:02.060 We don't support mandatory vaccination.
00:17:04.420 I mean, if I were a premier,
00:17:05.460 I'd be looking at the federal government
00:17:06.660 and saying, you want mandatory vaccination,
00:17:08.220 you do it.
00:17:09.360 You do it.
00:17:10.060 So it's like the federal government
00:17:11.500 is trying to give a marching order here.
00:17:13.760 They don't want their hands dirty
00:17:15.560 by something they clearly support.
00:17:18.020 So again, and I don't have any inside knowledge here.
00:17:21.000 I'm not saying at the first minister's meeting,
00:17:22.820 there was an agenda item
00:17:24.740 about mandatory vaccination.
00:17:26.440 But the fact that more premiers
00:17:28.080 are not denouncing this suggests
00:17:29.520 that perhaps what Duclos was saying
00:17:32.180 is true,
00:17:33.620 that this discussion is taking place,
00:17:35.320 even just in a small way.
00:17:38.420 So every single person in this country
00:17:40.820 needs to demand of their MPs,
00:17:43.260 their MPPs,
00:17:44.380 their MLAs,
00:17:45.400 their MNAs.
00:17:46.380 I think there's another M something A.
00:17:48.500 But every elected representative
00:17:50.220 you have federally and provincially,
00:17:51.680 you should be asking right now,
00:17:54.160 will you take a stand on record
00:17:56.420 and denounce mandatory vaccination?
00:18:00.960 And remember,
00:18:01.940 I talked months ago
00:18:03.000 about that Webster dictionary had changed
00:18:05.380 or was it Webster or Merriam
00:18:07.500 or whatever it was.
00:18:08.360 They had changed the definition
00:18:09.700 of anti-vaxxer
00:18:10.600 to anyone who opposes a vaccine mandate.
00:18:12.900 Never has it been more important
00:18:14.420 to divide vaccination
00:18:16.340 and mandatory vaccination.
00:18:18.580 The mandatory is the part
00:18:20.240 that I care about.
00:18:20.920 You can make your own decision
00:18:22.040 on vaccination.
00:18:22.980 That's your right.
00:18:23.980 But the mandatory,
00:18:25.520 absolutely everyone
00:18:26.780 should oppose that.
00:18:27.720 Even if you're fully vaccinated,
00:18:29.440 boosted,
00:18:29.940 you could be triple-dosed,
00:18:31.180 quadruple-dosed.
00:18:32.080 You could have two Pfizer's,
00:18:33.620 a Moderna,
00:18:34.140 an AstraZeneca,
00:18:35.060 and a Sputnik for good measure.
00:18:36.620 And you should still be saying
00:18:37.940 that was your choice to make,
00:18:40.360 not the government's.
00:18:43.220 From Pierre Trudeau's
00:18:44.320 great proclamation
00:18:45.020 to the government
00:18:45.880 has to stay outside
00:18:47.080 the bedrooms of the nation.
00:18:48.540 Justin Trudeau's,
00:18:49.400 dramatic,
00:18:50.580 dramatic proclamation.
00:18:51.980 Let me play it for you.
00:18:52.760 His dramatic proclamation
00:18:53.820 of a woman's right
00:18:55.140 to choose to have an abortion.
00:18:56.420 This country is a country
00:18:57.720 of openness,
00:18:58.680 of respect,
00:18:59.960 of compassion,
00:19:01.200 of the rule of law,
00:19:03.300 of the rights of the individuals,
00:19:05.020 of freedom.
00:19:06.680 Freedom from fear,
00:19:08.820 freedom from crime,
00:19:10.580 freedom to love who you want
00:19:12.040 and not be judged for it,
00:19:14.380 freedom to do what you want
00:19:15.820 with your body.
00:19:16.420 Oh, there you have it.
00:19:17.980 Yeah, a woman,
00:19:18.660 everyone,
00:19:19.600 everyone has the right
00:19:20.580 to do what they want
00:19:21.420 with their own body.
00:19:22.980 Well,
00:19:23.520 except when it comes
00:19:24.640 to vaccination.
00:19:26.560 That's where things have gotten.
00:19:28.720 So yet again,
00:19:29.580 yesterday's conspiracy theory
00:19:30.980 is today's public policy.
00:19:33.000 As I said at the beginning
00:19:33.900 of the show,
00:19:34.360 it brings me no joy
00:19:35.620 to say I told you so,
00:19:37.140 but I did.
00:19:38.200 Now let's take a stand.
00:19:39.560 When we come back,
00:19:40.400 we will be talking
00:19:41.120 about kids in schools
00:19:42.720 and perhaps some good news
00:19:44.280 on the horizon.
00:19:44.940 And we'll talk about that
00:19:45.720 straight ahead.
00:19:46.420 Stay with me.
00:19:49.960 You're tuned in
00:19:51.080 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:19:55.240 Welcome back to the program.
00:19:57.080 This is The Andrew Lawton Show
00:19:58.520 here on True North.
00:20:00.220 And in my province of Ontario,
00:20:02.420 kids are still out of school.
00:20:04.220 One story came out last night,
00:20:06.660 which suggests they may be
00:20:07.860 headed back on schedule
00:20:09.440 on next Monday.
00:20:11.460 So in just about six days
00:20:13.420 from now,
00:20:13.840 the problem is that
00:20:15.180 this government tends
00:20:16.140 to flip-flop,
00:20:17.320 you know,
00:20:17.560 seven or eight times
00:20:18.360 before it lands
00:20:19.020 on what it wants to do.
00:20:20.280 And more importantly,
00:20:21.320 I don't think they can
00:20:22.100 at all say a week out
00:20:23.460 what they're going
00:20:24.200 to be doing in a week
00:20:25.720 unless they're just making
00:20:27.020 this purely
00:20:27.520 for political reasons.
00:20:28.800 But nevertheless,
00:20:30.360 other provinces
00:20:30.960 are doing very similar things.
00:20:32.740 They're talking about
00:20:33.420 sending kids back
00:20:34.240 on January 17th,
00:20:35.980 the 10th.
00:20:36.440 We'll get to the list
00:20:37.240 in a moment.
00:20:37.760 But the reality is
00:20:39.320 kids in schools
00:20:40.740 has become
00:20:42.040 one of the
00:20:42.920 trans-political
00:20:44.380 and trans-ideological
00:20:45.780 issues of the COVID era
00:20:47.780 that I think
00:20:48.480 is one of the big reasons
00:20:49.580 that the tide is turning,
00:20:51.160 as I've been saying
00:20:51.720 for the last few weeks
00:20:52.700 in the pandemic.
00:20:54.080 People are very much
00:20:56.160 angered by this.
00:20:58.040 Parents who are not
00:20:58.980 conservatives
00:20:59.760 by any stretch,
00:21:00.620 they're not fire-breathing
00:21:01.460 libertarians,
00:21:03.000 they're parents
00:21:03.660 who love their kids.
00:21:04.780 And they're turning
00:21:06.640 on the alarmists
00:21:08.500 in the lockdown crowd
00:21:09.420 I think over this issue
00:21:10.680 when kids once again
00:21:11.880 are plucked
00:21:12.820 from the classroom
00:21:13.540 and forced to sit
00:21:14.520 on Zoom all day
00:21:15.840 like adults
00:21:17.320 who are miserable
00:21:17.900 enough doing that
00:21:18.820 but kids in particular
00:21:20.120 who need the socialization.
00:21:21.480 Kids like being around
00:21:22.300 other people.
00:21:22.880 Adults certainly
00:21:23.940 of a certain age don't.
00:21:25.600 So that's where we are now.
00:21:26.880 It's changing
00:21:27.620 but governments
00:21:28.780 are still beholden
00:21:30.260 to a lot of the people
00:21:31.160 that think that
00:21:31.840 kids are just
00:21:32.960 disease vectors
00:21:33.700 and shouldn't be
00:21:34.280 in their schools.
00:21:34.880 So I want to talk
00:21:35.780 about this
00:21:36.120 because there's been
00:21:36.780 a growing campaign
00:21:38.000 and we've seen rallies
00:21:39.700 across the country
00:21:40.720 of people trying
00:21:41.620 to put kids
00:21:42.680 back in the classroom
00:21:43.900 where they belong
00:21:45.280 during the school year.
00:21:46.220 One of the big advocates
00:21:47.040 here has been
00:21:47.660 Bronwyn Alsop
00:21:48.460 who's the founder
00:21:49.400 of the Ontario Families
00:21:50.720 Coalition
00:21:51.100 and joins me now.
00:21:52.800 Bronwyn, it's good
00:21:53.620 to talk to you.
00:21:54.100 Thanks very much
00:21:54.660 for coming on today.
00:21:56.200 Thank you for having me.
00:21:57.620 Why is this
00:21:58.980 such an important issue?
00:22:00.780 Because, you know,
00:22:01.520 for all that we've been
00:22:02.200 consumed by lockdown
00:22:03.200 in general,
00:22:04.560 the one that really
00:22:05.620 seems to be triggering
00:22:06.520 a lot of emotion
00:22:07.340 and a lot of parents
00:22:08.180 across the province
00:22:09.060 and the country
00:22:09.600 right now
00:22:10.160 is kids yet again
00:22:12.020 being pulled out of school.
00:22:13.920 Yes, it's very unfortunate
00:22:15.520 again that our children
00:22:16.640 have been dragged
00:22:17.340 through politics
00:22:18.400 completely throughout
00:22:19.540 this pandemic.
00:22:20.300 Their mental health
00:22:21.020 has completely been ignored
00:22:22.100 and unfortunately
00:22:23.440 we've ignored science
00:22:24.700 and having the longest
00:22:25.940 school closures
00:22:26.700 across Canada.
00:22:27.680 Ontario has been
00:22:29.240 completely failing
00:22:30.580 our children
00:22:31.160 by having these
00:22:32.400 continuous school closures
00:22:33.760 for such long times
00:22:34.960 and it has to stop.
00:22:36.900 We've been doing
00:22:37.860 everything we can
00:22:38.700 throughout this pandemic
00:22:39.500 who myself
00:22:40.780 have been advocating
00:22:41.660 to keep schools closed
00:22:43.440 and we've had petitions
00:22:45.100 that have had
00:22:45.740 tremendous success
00:22:47.000 in numbers.
00:22:47.900 People are angry
00:22:49.440 and upset
00:22:50.020 but still
00:22:50.660 it doesn't seem
00:22:51.740 to change anything
00:22:52.980 with our board
00:22:55.800 where he makes decisions
00:22:57.380 when he's put under pressure
00:22:59.040 and he ignores science
00:23:00.720 and he makes political decisions
00:23:02.380 that override science
00:23:03.820 and that's just wrong.
00:23:04.780 You need to follow science
00:23:05.940 and make sure
00:23:07.040 that our kids
00:23:07.660 have in-person learning
00:23:08.900 and that's for all ages
00:23:10.700 not just for children
00:23:13.200 that are vaccinated
00:23:14.140 that are in high school age
00:23:16.320 who have had that advantage
00:23:17.320 to have the double dose
00:23:18.460 but for all ages
00:23:20.040 from JK
00:23:20.640 to grade 12
00:23:21.920 all ages need to be back
00:23:23.420 in school
00:23:23.880 absolutely no later
00:23:24.960 than January 17th.
00:23:26.620 Every day counts.
00:23:27.860 There are two injustices here.
00:23:30.240 One is the actual issue
00:23:32.220 you just touched on there
00:23:33.260 which is shutting down school
00:23:34.820 and all of the issues
00:23:35.860 that come along with that.
00:23:37.040 The other has been
00:23:38.080 the lack of consistent
00:23:40.100 and coherent messaging
00:23:41.500 on these things
00:23:42.380 and just the complete yo-yoing.
00:23:44.680 Ontario is a great example.
00:23:46.220 It's the province
00:23:46.760 in which you and I live.
00:23:48.280 We were hearing
00:23:49.220 as of I think it was what
00:23:50.380 like January 1st
00:23:53.440 or December 31st
00:23:54.660 or whenever it was
00:23:55.400 that we were going
00:23:56.600 to be getting
00:23:57.100 just a little two-day bump
00:23:59.100 that the school year
00:23:59.900 was going to be pushed back
00:24:00.900 from January 3rd
00:24:01.900 to January 5th
00:24:02.940 and then that week
00:24:04.140 we hear okay
00:24:04.800 actually it's going
00:24:05.940 to be two weeks
00:24:06.560 that they're going
00:24:06.940 to be online.
00:24:07.800 So within the matter
00:24:08.460 of three days
00:24:09.820 the policy
00:24:11.880 had just completely reversed.
00:24:13.640 I mean how are parents
00:24:14.300 supposed to plan
00:24:15.120 when you're just getting
00:24:16.420 such a completely sporadic
00:24:18.720 or erratic approach
00:24:20.320 to policy?
00:24:22.240 It's ridiculous.
00:24:23.460 Unfortunately I wish
00:24:24.360 I could say I was shocked
00:24:25.480 when that happened
00:24:26.640 but it seems to be
00:24:27.440 a consistent tendency
00:24:28.480 with how our government works
00:24:29.820 is that they like
00:24:30.860 to keep us on the edge.
00:24:32.260 There is no rhyme or reason
00:24:34.120 to follow through
00:24:35.140 on something.
00:24:35.900 So I personally
00:24:37.020 because I've been advocating
00:24:38.440 for schools to open
00:24:39.460 for two years now
00:24:40.960 I knew that the day
00:24:42.000 that he said,
00:24:42.660 Kieran Moore,
00:24:43.680 I agreed with everything
00:24:44.520 he said
00:24:45.040 and I said finally
00:24:45.880 schools will be open
00:24:46.740 on January 5th.
00:24:47.720 I trusted him
00:24:48.600 but I did not trust
00:24:50.480 what was going to happen
00:24:51.480 in that two-day gap.
00:24:52.860 I knew that my kids
00:24:53.860 would not be going
00:24:54.580 to school
00:24:55.040 because I knew
00:24:56.320 immediately
00:24:56.880 as soon as that news hit
00:24:58.140 that there would be
00:24:59.100 other people
00:24:59.780 who are advocating
00:25:01.100 to keep schools closed
00:25:02.680 until they have
00:25:03.720 measures put in place
00:25:05.460 that they want to have
00:25:06.680 while they're in school
00:25:07.920 on the first day
00:25:08.920 and not wait in due time
00:25:10.360 like other essential workers
00:25:11.580 to have these things
00:25:12.420 delivered to them.
00:25:13.260 So Colin Furness's letter
00:25:15.220 really unfortunately
00:25:16.780 went off on hot fire
00:25:18.100 advocating for medical
00:25:20.680 officers of health
00:25:21.460 to push to keep schools
00:25:22.640 closed for longer
00:25:23.460 and then that also
00:25:24.620 was a domino effect
00:25:26.060 with the OSSTF
00:25:27.440 and EFTO
00:25:28.260 also advocating
00:25:29.640 to keep schools closed
00:25:30.920 until they had the N95s,
00:25:33.160 until they had HEPA filters,
00:25:34.780 until they had,
00:25:36.120 I think even vaccinations
00:25:37.660 for younger ages
00:25:39.220 was also on that list
00:25:40.340 and to have educators
00:25:41.460 and to have educators
00:25:41.480 also vaccinated
00:25:42.500 before January 5th.
00:25:44.600 And I think I even saw
00:25:46.040 smaller class sizes
00:25:47.360 which is completely
00:25:48.280 not going to happen
00:25:49.020 within the next 20 years
00:25:50.140 so they always put that in.
00:25:52.100 So I saw the dream list
00:25:53.820 come out
00:25:54.340 and I knew that we were
00:25:56.120 going to be royally screwed
00:25:57.420 because I knew that
00:25:58.500 it was already being lobbied
00:25:59.920 and that people were trying
00:26:02.220 to do everything they could.
00:26:03.560 Who wanted schools closed,
00:26:04.860 they were doing everything
00:26:05.860 they could
00:26:06.380 so we had a letter prepared
00:26:08.140 to try and advocate
00:26:09.540 against that
00:26:11.400 and we were sending it.
00:26:12.860 We also thought
00:26:13.600 Section 22 was going to happen
00:26:15.060 but that didn't even go forward
00:26:17.480 because Ford didn't go that far
00:26:19.640 to keep forward with his plan
00:26:21.460 but I basically had no faith
00:26:23.360 that what Dr. Kieran Moore said
00:26:25.480 which I agreed with
00:26:26.420 following science
00:26:27.360 was going to happen
00:26:28.040 so I knew we were going to end up
00:26:30.140 into a complete bomb
00:26:31.380 and the stress of that
00:26:32.940 myself as a parent
00:26:34.080 and advocate
00:26:34.640 and it was just rocking me
00:26:36.520 because we were all
00:26:37.200 watching this sort of bomb
00:26:38.820 happen online on Twitter.
00:26:40.740 I don't know if you were observing it
00:26:41.880 but on Sunday night
00:26:42.960 we all knew that
00:26:44.080 something was not going to happen
00:26:45.620 properly for our kids this week
00:26:47.360 and then we got the final news
00:26:49.640 because it was being leaked everywhere.
00:26:51.060 The stress was awful
00:26:53.080 and intense
00:26:53.840 and it's just a roller coaster
00:26:55.500 for all of us
00:26:56.300 and I'm also an early childhood educator.
00:26:59.420 I have been working
00:27:00.340 throughout this entire pandemic
00:27:01.580 without any of these things
00:27:03.560 that my children's schools
00:27:05.720 have put in place.
00:27:07.360 I don't have N95s accessible to me.
00:27:09.480 I don't have HEPA filters.
00:27:11.040 We just have windows open.
00:27:12.840 I work with unvaccinated
00:27:14.180 unmasked kids all day
00:27:15.580 so for me
00:27:16.920 when I leave my home every day
00:27:18.460 and I'm thinking
00:27:19.560 I'm going to teach my students
00:27:21.640 and I want to be there
00:27:22.940 in the conditions I'm in
00:27:24.440 and I'm proud to be there
00:27:25.860 but at the same time
00:27:26.720 I'm deserting my children
00:27:27.900 where they have better conditions
00:27:29.980 than I have at my work
00:27:31.360 and they are staring at a screen
00:27:32.980 where they could be safer in school.
00:27:35.240 Dr. Kieran Moore
00:27:36.440 completely was spot on.
00:27:38.700 Kids are safer in school.
00:27:41.280 That is something
00:27:42.080 that seems to be pushed aside
00:27:44.260 and ignored
00:27:44.800 throughout this pandemic
00:27:45.920 and that is what we need to remember
00:27:47.880 because right now
00:27:48.780 kids are not safe.
00:27:49.940 They're going...
00:27:50.800 People have gone to Florida
00:27:52.240 if they can.
00:27:53.540 People have gone to learning pods.
00:27:55.180 People who have been into this
00:27:57.120 and have the privilege to
00:27:58.180 have not wanting
00:28:00.280 to tolerate this anymore.
00:28:01.540 So how is that safe?
00:28:03.220 And it's not.
00:28:04.880 You touched on
00:28:06.020 a very important point
00:28:07.020 though there Bronwyn
00:28:07.780 which is that
00:28:08.560 you're not arguing
00:28:09.500 and people who want kids
00:28:10.680 back in school
00:28:11.280 are not saying that
00:28:12.520 you know
00:28:13.000 we just want this
00:28:13.980 in spite of the science.
00:28:15.600 The arguments
00:28:16.280 you're advancing
00:28:17.000 are that the science
00:28:18.200 supports school
00:28:19.480 being a safe place
00:28:21.160 for students right now.
00:28:22.700 Exactly.
00:28:23.180 That is the safest place.
00:28:25.300 They have
00:28:25.740 the most safest
00:28:27.440 sort of measures
00:28:29.320 already put in place
00:28:30.500 compared to places
00:28:31.400 that are already open
00:28:32.420 which essential workers
00:28:33.660 like myself daycares
00:28:34.660 don't have
00:28:35.320 and we should be open.
00:28:37.120 Daycares and schools
00:28:38.360 are essential
00:28:39.320 and we as ECEs
00:28:41.500 don't have a union
00:28:42.380 and that's why
00:28:43.300 we have been open
00:28:44.080 throughout the entire pandemic
00:28:45.240 because we don't have anyone
00:28:46.760 advocating to close us
00:28:47.980 constantly, thank God.
00:28:49.480 So it's really a blessing
00:28:50.500 for me
00:28:50.980 because I want to be
00:28:51.780 with my students
00:28:52.380 but at the same time
00:28:53.420 that's the political part
00:28:54.960 that overrides the science
00:28:56.380 is that our schools
00:28:57.300 are constantly closed
00:28:58.380 because we're dragging
00:29:00.100 everything in
00:29:01.160 that people from
00:29:02.380 their political agenda
00:29:04.480 want during this pandemic
00:29:05.920 to sort of bring in
00:29:08.080 to push our kids
00:29:09.100 to not have in-person learning
00:29:10.620 and it's
00:29:11.280 I want smaller class sizes
00:29:13.240 everyone wants that
00:29:14.180 for their kids
00:29:14.740 but that is not going to happen
00:29:16.280 you know
00:29:16.920 it's just not a realistic goal
00:29:18.680 to happen
00:29:19.220 and not something
00:29:19.920 we should keep dragging
00:29:20.820 into our list
00:29:21.960 that we want to check off
00:29:23.180 in a short time frame.
00:29:24.940 If I can jump in there
00:29:25.680 there are a lot of parents
00:29:26.840 in this province
00:29:27.560 and grandparents
00:29:28.420 and aunts and uncles
00:29:29.540 and I think more and more
00:29:30.840 of them
00:29:31.280 are turning against
00:29:32.780 the Ontario government
00:29:33.860 by the day
00:29:34.660 in fact every day
00:29:35.660 that this school
00:29:36.300 shut down
00:29:37.360 this supposedly
00:29:38.480 at this point
00:29:39.140 two week shutdown
00:29:39.920 goes on
00:29:40.480 more parents
00:29:41.120 are turning against
00:29:42.040 the government
00:29:42.460 so if it is being done
00:29:44.040 for political reasons
00:29:45.320 and from a political agenda
00:29:46.720 who's the constituency
00:29:47.720 who's winning from this?
00:29:50.080 It doesn't make any sense
00:29:51.300 I don't
00:29:52.460 I think Ford
00:29:53.660 was doing this originally
00:29:54.840 for maybe
00:29:55.440 what pushed him over
00:29:56.880 in the political decision
00:29:58.020 to close schools
00:29:59.260 I don't know
00:30:00.060 I think it was
00:30:00.720 the political pressure
00:30:01.620 I think he's being lobbied
00:30:02.760 I maybe
00:30:03.920 I have no idea
00:30:05.320 what drove him
00:30:06.420 originally to do this
00:30:07.180 maybe it was possibility
00:30:08.320 the medical side
00:30:10.200 thinking of capacity
00:30:11.380 maybe that was something
00:30:12.380 that made his decision
00:30:13.460 because of being overwhelmed
00:30:15.240 in the hospital
00:30:15.900 was the shortages
00:30:16.860 I don't know
00:30:17.740 the specifics
00:30:18.260 but there was
00:30:19.740 this doesn't make sense
00:30:21.240 why our kids
00:30:22.040 are constantly
00:30:22.960 going through this
00:30:23.620 with the school closures
00:30:24.540 where other essential workers
00:30:25.920 are managing
00:30:27.660 and not closing
00:30:28.560 I mean
00:30:29.360 we have staff shortages
00:30:30.680 at work
00:30:31.180 there's lots of people
00:30:32.160 who are going through shortages
00:30:33.120 but we're still open
00:30:34.520 and it just
00:30:35.600 the sort of hypothetical
00:30:37.380 possibilities
00:30:38.580 of the worst case scenario
00:30:40.100 always seem to get
00:30:41.040 in the way
00:30:41.580 of moving forward
00:30:42.480 and opening schools
00:30:43.420 and that is the biggest problem
00:30:45.680 as soon as they said
00:30:46.420 they're not going to open schools
00:30:47.620 we knew we were going
00:30:48.440 into this repeat
00:30:49.440 of what we've gone through
00:30:50.460 for the last two years
00:30:51.460 where it's not two weeks
00:30:52.580 it's not two days
00:30:53.700 it could be four weeks
00:30:54.840 it could be six weeks
00:30:55.820 it could be eight weeks
00:30:56.760 they'll come up
00:30:57.800 with every sort of different
00:30:58.940 sort of excuse
00:31:00.260 and that's
00:31:01.660 we've had it
00:31:02.600 I've had it a long time ago
00:31:04.140 but you're right
00:31:04.860 it's shifting
00:31:06.040 where it was last year
00:31:07.560 where people were scared
00:31:08.560 to speak out
00:31:09.300 and to be honest
00:31:10.520 about how damaging
00:31:11.620 this was to kids
00:31:12.660 and now there are people
00:31:14.440 who are coming out
00:31:15.520 being vocal
00:31:16.880 that this cannot
00:31:17.640 keep happening anymore
00:31:18.740 yeah it's ridiculous
00:31:20.600 you know we're at
00:31:21.800 we're at now
00:31:22.440 coming up on two years
00:31:24.200 since the first lockdown
00:31:25.940 in Ontario
00:31:26.860 the first shutdown of schools
00:31:28.200 and most lockdowns
00:31:29.820 in Canada
00:31:30.380 were imposed
00:31:30.980 around that same time
00:31:31.960 March 2020
00:31:32.700 and you know
00:31:34.100 as much as adults
00:31:34.940 I think rightfully complain
00:31:36.140 about the effect
00:31:36.780 it's had on our lives
00:31:37.780 our livelihoods
00:31:38.620 our families
00:31:39.180 and all of that
00:31:40.120 you're very keenly aware
00:31:42.300 that for children
00:31:43.340 it's a lot different
00:31:44.700 it's a greater proportion
00:31:46.300 of your life
00:31:46.940 the younger you are
00:31:47.960 that's been consumed by this
00:31:49.840 if you're six years old
00:31:51.020 you have been in school
00:31:52.040 for a couple years
00:31:52.740 this is all you know
00:31:53.800 even if you're eight
00:31:55.080 nine years old
00:31:55.900 this is now becoming
00:31:57.020 more and more
00:31:58.060 of a share
00:31:58.800 of your time in school
00:32:00.700 and we may not
00:32:02.100 and again
00:32:02.620 I realize this is
00:32:03.640 a terrible scenario
00:32:04.680 no one wants to envision
00:32:05.720 but we may not
00:32:06.840 totally know
00:32:07.920 the negative impact
00:32:09.700 and the scope of this
00:32:10.940 for years to come
00:32:12.060 when we see that
00:32:12.880 socially and educationally
00:32:14.700 a pretty critical point
00:32:16.500 in children's lives
00:32:17.540 has just not been there
00:32:19.080 yes it's definitely
00:32:20.540 I would
00:32:21.540 when I say
00:32:22.060 we're focusing on schools
00:32:24.260 that is our main focus
00:32:25.320 so with school closures
00:32:26.580 it's definitely going to be
00:32:27.840 haunting them
00:32:28.460 in ways they don't know
00:32:29.640 for long term
00:32:30.680 or this has become
00:32:31.700 their new norm
00:32:32.540 for them unfortunately
00:32:33.660 so they don't understand
00:32:34.820 the confusion
00:32:35.440 you know
00:32:35.720 why can't I go to swimming
00:32:36.800 one day
00:32:37.160 or why can't I go to school
00:32:38.240 one day
00:32:38.580 it's the inconsistency
00:32:40.200 and being an early
00:32:41.020 childhood educator
00:32:41.840 I understand
00:32:42.620 kids need structure
00:32:43.760 routine
00:32:44.320 they thrive on it
00:32:45.580 that's how they learn
00:32:46.340 so having the inconsistency
00:32:48.520 for two years
00:32:49.580 you know
00:32:50.160 almost marking
00:32:50.920 two years of this flip-flopping
00:32:52.520 is just very damaging
00:32:53.940 for them
00:32:54.420 and it's delaying them
00:32:55.380 with their education
00:32:56.940 and early development
00:32:58.160 even and especially
00:32:59.680 for older kids
00:33:00.740 as well
00:33:01.060 for teens
00:33:01.580 this is affecting all ages
00:33:02.920 I have younger kids
00:33:03.960 that are four and six
00:33:04.920 both with special needs
00:33:05.940 and it really rocks them
00:33:07.680 but I know
00:33:08.140 but I know other families
00:33:08.900 of my friends
00:33:09.880 and they have teens
00:33:10.920 and it's rocking
00:33:11.900 their structure
00:33:12.640 and routines as well
00:33:14.260 so all ages need
00:33:15.440 to be back in school
00:33:16.360 and we need to
00:33:17.840 you know
00:33:18.420 schools never should
00:33:19.760 have been closed
00:33:20.580 because they are essential
00:33:21.620 and they're always
00:33:22.540 the first lockdown
00:33:23.420 that we had
00:33:24.480 with schools closing
00:33:25.400 everything shut down
00:33:26.340 everyone was not
00:33:27.460 understanding
00:33:27.980 what was happening
00:33:28.680 it was a very
00:33:29.700 you know
00:33:30.420 we didn't understand
00:33:31.900 what was happening
00:33:32.400 we're all scared
00:33:33.140 and after that
00:33:34.520 that should have been
00:33:35.060 the last time
00:33:35.700 that schools were closed
00:33:36.620 and we thought
00:33:37.400 from a medical perspective
00:33:38.520 that people
00:33:39.560 you know
00:33:40.020 there was
00:33:40.400 the evidence
00:33:41.660 and science
00:33:42.360 the staring
00:33:42.980 everyone in the face
00:33:43.780 there's not
00:33:44.240 there's very small group
00:33:45.740 of medical professionals
00:33:46.820 that support school closures
00:33:48.440 there's pretty much
00:33:49.340 unanimous
00:33:50.020 that schools
00:33:51.040 should always open
00:33:52.320 and it's just
00:33:53.640 I don't understand
00:33:54.840 I do understand
00:33:56.160 it's the politics
00:33:56.840 so I understand why
00:33:57.880 but I want to
00:33:59.340 to be brought up
00:34:00.800 and called out
00:34:01.580 that it's enough
00:34:02.620 we can't do this
00:34:03.460 to our kids anymore
00:34:04.200 they have to be in school
00:34:05.660 and the damage
00:34:07.120 is going to haunt them
00:34:07.960 unfortunately
00:34:08.420 and I hope that
00:34:09.340 early intervention
00:34:11.040 is thereafter
00:34:11.820 for support for them
00:34:12.800 because it's going to be
00:34:13.460 affecting their mental health
00:34:14.600 for quite some time
00:34:15.680 just finally
00:34:17.200 we look at the
00:34:17.940 national landscape here
00:34:19.220 you had Saskatchewan
00:34:20.320 which didn't close schools
00:34:21.360 at all
00:34:21.780 Alberta put a bit
00:34:22.680 of a bit of a pause
00:34:23.660 and they came back
00:34:24.520 I think as of yesterday
00:34:26.300 a lot of provinces
00:34:27.760 in Canada
00:34:28.280 seem to be doing
00:34:29.000 what Ontario's doing
00:34:30.060 which is put in
00:34:31.080 that little two-week delay
00:34:32.340 here
00:34:32.700 are you optimistic
00:34:34.240 that common sense
00:34:35.260 will prevail here
00:34:36.140 and that at the end
00:34:36.720 of that two weeks
00:34:37.400 they'll be back
00:34:38.080 or do you fear
00:34:38.820 I don't
00:34:39.660 I don't
00:34:40.180 yeah
00:34:40.380 and the reason
00:34:41.220 we're different
00:34:41.840 is because
00:34:42.680 EFTO
00:34:44.800 and OSSTF
00:34:46.100 are
00:34:47.140 these are the big unions
00:34:48.760 just for those
00:34:49.340 not familiar with them
00:34:50.260 yeah
00:34:50.480 sorry yes
00:34:51.460 yeah
00:34:52.180 it's become
00:34:52.800 it rolls off my tongue
00:34:53.780 now
00:34:53.960 yeah
00:34:54.460 so the unions
00:34:55.060 in Ontario
00:34:55.680 are the biggest
00:34:56.760 the most controlling
00:34:57.820 and they make
00:34:58.620 the most money
00:34:59.320 out of all of them
00:35:00.040 across North America
00:35:00.980 so there's a lot
00:35:01.600 of power there
00:35:02.280 so it's like
00:35:03.820 their own political party
00:35:05.040 that's at play here
00:35:05.960 that is bigger
00:35:06.900 Alberta does not have that
00:35:08.440 other provinces
00:35:10.120 don't have it
00:35:10.860 Ontario is very unique
00:35:12.240 so unfortunately
00:35:13.280 that's why
00:35:14.740 we have been
00:35:16.220 in this mess
00:35:16.800 for so long
00:35:17.520 is because
00:35:17.980 it's not just
00:35:18.880 following science
00:35:20.160 there's other
00:35:20.880 people behind the scenes
00:35:22.800 who are putting
00:35:23.300 intense pressure
00:35:24.120 to keep schools
00:35:25.920 closed constantly
00:35:27.160 for their own
00:35:28.160 political benefit
00:35:29.060 and I support
00:35:30.760 everything they want
00:35:31.660 implemented into schools
00:35:32.860 but you do it
00:35:35.540 while the doors are open
00:35:36.700 like we do today
00:35:38.300 if we wanted to get
00:35:39.280 N95s
00:35:40.120 if we were going
00:35:40.740 to order them
00:35:41.300 you still show up
00:35:42.260 to work
00:35:42.660 and you wait
00:35:43.160 till they're there
00:35:43.780 and you don't
00:35:44.540 just close everything
00:35:45.460 it's just not
00:35:46.260 the way you happen
00:35:47.160 and nurses
00:35:47.580 are doing that as well
00:35:48.440 they don't have access
00:35:49.320 to N95s
00:35:50.340 unless they're in the ICU
00:35:51.280 but they're still open
00:35:52.620 there's still
00:35:53.220 obviously a hospital
00:35:54.820 you can't close
00:35:55.520 but grocery stores
00:35:56.680 don't have N95s
00:35:57.900 there's TTC workers
00:35:59.560 in Toronto
00:36:00.040 do not have N95s
00:36:01.440 they're all running
00:36:02.500 while they're waiting
00:36:03.460 for these things
00:36:04.100 to happen
00:36:04.600 so it just
00:36:05.800 there's no excuse
00:36:06.860 but it's the power
00:36:08.040 of the money
00:36:08.820 that's driving these
00:36:09.840 that is always
00:36:10.680 the pressure
00:36:11.260 where they have
00:36:11.780 these resources
00:36:12.500 to constantly
00:36:14.700 put that pressure
00:36:15.600 on it
00:36:16.020 and that's the
00:36:16.700 unfortunate part
00:36:17.560 that I don't know
00:36:19.180 how it's going
00:36:19.660 to change
00:36:20.120 but it's depressing
00:36:21.740 to see how
00:36:22.420 it's just
00:36:22.820 completely
00:36:23.260 taken over
00:36:24.180 our children's
00:36:25.360 best interests
00:36:26.180 and their mental
00:36:26.700 health
00:36:26.980 and rocking it
00:36:27.620 because they are
00:36:28.440 the power ones
00:36:29.240 here
00:36:29.440 and it pushes
00:36:30.300 forward
00:36:30.820 in my
00:36:31.360 to make
00:36:33.200 decisions
00:36:34.200 that are not
00:36:34.880 following science
00:36:35.800 I don't know
00:36:36.500 if he thinks
00:36:36.900 he's going to
00:36:37.320 sway a huge
00:36:38.020 vote of union
00:36:38.900 members for the
00:36:39.600 election
00:36:39.920 but I certainly
00:36:41.220 can tell him
00:36:42.200 that he's lost
00:36:42.980 many PC supporters
00:36:44.400 throughout this
00:36:45.560 pandemic
00:36:45.980 with school
00:36:47.360 closures
00:36:47.840 because people
00:36:48.500 who did
00:36:48.880 support him
00:36:49.440 before
00:36:49.800 with their
00:36:51.440 kids being
00:36:52.000 out of school
00:36:52.480 for so long
00:36:53.360 will never
00:36:54.200 support him
00:36:54.840 again unless
00:36:55.500 he wakes up
00:36:56.280 and realizes
00:36:56.900 that he cannot
00:36:57.680 do this anymore
00:36:58.420 and he needs
00:36:58.820 to open it
00:36:59.380 for all ages
00:37:00.140 this is going
00:37:01.580 to ruin him
00:37:02.240 politically
00:37:02.700 well yeah
00:37:03.820 and again
00:37:04.640 on a side note
00:37:05.580 I think a lot
00:37:06.080 of these union
00:37:06.560 members are also
00:37:07.400 parents themselves
00:37:08.320 surely
00:37:08.680 like they're
00:37:09.120 dealing with
00:37:09.620 they must see
00:37:10.700 this with their
00:37:11.220 own children
00:37:11.760 the teachers
00:37:12.700 that are doing
00:37:13.280 Zoom school
00:37:13.880 may have the
00:37:14.520 next room over
00:37:15.140 their own kids
00:37:15.860 that are students
00:37:16.740 in Zoom school
00:37:17.660 and when I say
00:37:18.960 unions I want
00:37:20.240 to be clear
00:37:20.800 I don't ever
00:37:21.660 mean individual
00:37:22.620 educators as well
00:37:23.900 because I have
00:37:24.460 tons of friends
00:37:25.540 who are members
00:37:26.620 of the union
00:37:27.140 but they want
00:37:27.700 to go back
00:37:28.080 no that's an
00:37:29.000 important point
00:37:29.400 I've never
00:37:29.800 seen such a great
00:37:30.900 divide as between
00:37:31.840 the teachers union
00:37:32.660 and the individual
00:37:33.320 teachers
00:37:33.940 yeah and that's
00:37:36.280 the part where
00:37:36.880 they I have
00:37:37.840 friends that are
00:37:38.600 you know just
00:37:39.340 beside themselves
00:37:40.140 where they they
00:37:40.860 are watching their
00:37:41.560 kids crumble
00:37:42.140 they're watching
00:37:42.720 their students
00:37:43.320 crumble and it's
00:37:44.760 they are trapped
00:37:45.460 themselves in the
00:37:46.680 system where they
00:37:47.440 have no voice
00:37:48.160 because it has
00:37:48.820 risk for their
00:37:49.380 job so and that's
00:37:51.020 where I'm thankful
00:37:51.940 I'm not a part of
00:37:52.860 that in a union
00:37:53.580 where I don't have
00:37:54.440 that you know
00:37:55.340 thankfully so I
00:37:56.420 feel for them
00:37:57.300 but what do they
00:37:58.440 do it's like they
00:37:59.260 need to come out
00:38:00.160 on mass themselves
00:38:01.300 to speak out
00:38:03.120 against this
00:38:03.880 where and I
00:38:04.820 don't know
00:38:05.140 what the risks
00:38:05.680 are you don't
00:38:06.140 want to lose
00:38:06.520 your income
00:38:06.940 you don't want
00:38:07.340 to lose
00:38:07.580 your job
00:38:08.000 so there's
00:38:08.500 a lot of
00:38:08.900 risks on that
00:38:09.560 because throughout
00:38:10.660 this pandemic
00:38:11.220 I've had so
00:38:11.860 many people
00:38:12.260 come in to me
00:38:12.840 and say
00:38:13.100 shh you know
00:38:13.860 thank you
00:38:14.440 keep doing
00:38:15.300 what you're
00:38:15.620 doing
00:38:15.940 but they can't
00:38:17.300 speak out
00:38:17.820 and they can't
00:38:18.600 give their name
00:38:19.180 and it's just
00:38:20.080 it's deeply
00:38:21.120 saddening
00:38:21.760 to see that
00:38:22.420 you know
00:38:22.700 there's that
00:38:23.140 much control
00:38:23.860 and I think
00:38:24.540 that's also
00:38:25.220 was what we
00:38:26.120 were going
00:38:26.680 through in the
00:38:27.120 beginning of
00:38:27.580 the pandemic
00:38:28.040 where there were
00:38:29.160 so many medical
00:38:30.140 professionals as
00:38:30.960 well with their
00:38:31.860 association who
00:38:32.720 wanted to speak
00:38:33.460 out as well
00:38:34.100 and there was
00:38:34.520 only a select
00:38:35.240 few people
00:38:35.880 who really
00:38:36.920 were always
00:38:37.820 going no matter
00:38:38.820 what for the
00:38:39.500 sake of our
00:38:40.020 kids and really
00:38:40.920 those medical
00:38:41.880 professionals
00:38:42.440 are the people
00:38:43.540 and advocates
00:38:44.500 and people who
00:38:45.280 really do stand
00:38:46.160 out and go
00:38:47.160 across for the
00:38:47.980 risks are the
00:38:48.520 ones who are
00:38:48.980 going to be
00:38:49.340 remembered in my
00:38:50.040 opinion through
00:38:50.680 history for
00:38:51.360 saving our
00:38:51.960 children and
00:38:52.480 doing everything
00:38:53.020 they could
00:38:53.560 and it has a
00:38:55.460 lot of risk
00:38:56.040 now for you
00:38:56.900 but later on
00:38:57.780 your children
00:38:58.620 will remember
00:38:59.220 this in history
00:38:59.840 and that's
00:39:00.440 where I think
00:39:00.920 it is
00:39:01.220 but there's
00:39:01.800 a huge shift
00:39:02.620 I think
00:39:02.960 with medical
00:39:03.420 professionals
00:39:03.960 that you know
00:39:05.440 with that letter
00:39:06.080 that Dr.
00:39:06.720 Alana Golden
00:39:07.240 sent out
00:39:07.900 and totally
00:39:09.320 led herself
00:39:10.260 to get
00:39:10.940 doctors to
00:39:11.620 sign the
00:39:12.440 amount of
00:39:12.860 signatures that
00:39:13.520 happened in
00:39:14.140 under 24
00:39:14.780 hours was
00:39:15.500 huge because
00:39:16.680 you could tell
00:39:17.240 doctors that
00:39:18.160 had kids
00:39:18.740 were done
00:39:19.440 so that's
00:39:20.300 why it's
00:39:21.540 just shifting
00:39:22.080 now thank
00:39:22.740 God for our
00:39:23.340 kids
00:39:23.600 very well
00:39:24.780 said Bronwyn
00:39:25.400 Alsop from
00:39:26.080 the Ontario
00:39:26.780 Families
00:39:27.220 Coalition
00:39:27.560 thanks so
00:39:28.060 much for your
00:39:28.400 work on this
00:39:28.900 truly
00:39:29.200 thank you so
00:39:30.100 much
00:39:30.340 thank you
00:39:30.720 take care
00:39:31.160 so I don't
00:39:31.960 have kids
00:39:32.580 I have
00:39:33.000 nephews
00:39:33.420 I see the
00:39:34.080 impact there
00:39:34.680 my sister-in-law
00:39:36.260 shared a photo
00:39:37.220 of my oldest
00:39:39.080 nephew's
00:39:39.860 scowling face
00:39:40.880 as he was
00:39:41.320 sitting at his
00:39:41.820 laptop the first
00:39:42.680 day back
00:39:43.200 because he
00:39:44.180 doesn't want to
00:39:44.780 be there
00:39:45.100 I mean it's
00:39:45.640 funny because
00:39:46.140 as a kid
00:39:46.660 I remember
00:39:47.520 school is not
00:39:49.420 a thing you
00:39:50.080 love I mean
00:39:50.700 you love your
00:39:51.140 summer vacation
00:39:51.860 your winter
00:39:52.380 breaks your
00:39:52.960 weekends but
00:39:53.700 if it's taken
00:39:54.880 away from you
00:39:55.720 as it has
00:39:56.640 been for kids
00:39:57.420 for so long
00:39:58.340 it's something
00:39:59.420 that you're
00:39:59.920 losing and
00:40:00.640 obviously the
00:40:01.200 kids themselves
00:40:02.020 are very aware
00:40:02.980 of what they're
00:40:03.420 missing but I
00:40:04.640 meant that point
00:40:05.560 I raised with
00:40:06.140 Bronwyn I mean
00:40:06.800 it may take
00:40:07.260 years before we
00:40:08.120 start to see
00:40:08.760 I've just heard
00:40:09.780 anecdotally from
00:40:10.920 a couple of
00:40:11.540 people I know
00:40:11.980 in academia that
00:40:12.840 they say essay
00:40:13.980 quality writing
00:40:15.120 has gone down in
00:40:16.900 first year university
00:40:17.760 students because
00:40:18.580 they weren't
00:40:19.480 getting a really
00:40:20.620 critical education
00:40:21.600 they needed in
00:40:22.260 their latter year
00:40:23.100 of high school
00:40:23.680 and just imagine
00:40:25.060 this at a point
00:40:25.960 at which development
00:40:26.720 is still very much
00:40:27.740 happening for younger
00:40:28.580 kids what are they
00:40:29.680 missing socially
00:40:30.720 educationally
00:40:31.700 reading writing
00:40:32.540 what's the caliber
00:40:33.780 of the education
00:40:34.680 the access they're
00:40:35.800 losing to early
00:40:37.480 childhood educators
00:40:38.520 for kids that have
00:40:39.540 more direct needs
00:40:41.280 with that again
00:40:42.180 you don't need to
00:40:43.080 have kids to
00:40:44.220 understand just
00:40:45.560 how devastating
00:40:46.640 this is and
00:40:47.660 how cowardly
00:40:48.960 how cowardly the
00:40:50.080 politicians are for
00:40:51.640 caving to the
00:40:52.640 dictatorship when
00:40:54.860 everyone else in
00:40:56.160 the province
00:40:56.760 including most
00:40:57.600 people who do
00:40:58.380 deal in science
00:40:59.680 for a living are
00:41:00.340 saying keep the
00:41:01.140 schools open
00:41:01.720 kids are not
00:41:02.560 vectors kids are
00:41:03.860 not these just
00:41:04.580 instruments of
00:41:05.280 disease the risks
00:41:06.860 of shutting them
00:41:07.860 out of school
00:41:08.680 outweigh the risks
00:41:09.700 of keeping them
00:41:10.440 in school this is
00:41:11.760 so simple yet
00:41:13.080 government seem to
00:41:13.860 be missing it so
00:41:14.540 good on Saskatchewan
00:41:15.480 and Alberta and
00:41:16.740 most of the US
00:41:17.900 for realizing that
00:41:19.060 we've got to end
00:41:19.960 things there my
00:41:20.520 thanks to all of
00:41:21.480 you for tuning
00:41:22.160 into the show
00:41:22.620 today we'll be
00:41:23.160 back in a couple
00:41:24.000 days time with
00:41:25.160 more of Canada's
00:41:26.080 most irreverent
00:41:27.020 talk show here on
00:41:27.860 true north thank
00:41:28.500 you god bless and
00:41:29.580 good day to you
00:41:30.160 all thanks for
00:41:31.100 listening to the
00:41:31.700 Andrew Lawton
00:41:32.300 show support the
00:41:33.340 program by donating
00:41:34.220 to true north at
00:41:35.140 www.tnc.news