Juno News - Reality Check： Free tuition is a DUMB idea

00:00:00.000 I'm Jasmine Moulton and this is Reality Check.

00:00:10.080 Reality Check is a new show here at True North where we use facts to debunk the favorite

00:00:14.720 arguments of the left. If you're new to the show, some past episodes include us debunking leftists

00:00:20.320 ideas such as the rich don't pay their fair share or Canada has the best healthcare system in the

00:00:25.360 world. Reality Check. The rich pay the majority of taxes in Canada and our healthcare system,

00:00:31.040 even though it's one of the most expensive, performs amongst the worst of other universal

00:00:35.120 healthcare systems. Now, while the legacy media gives leftists a platform to spread these ideological

00:00:40.800 claims, Reality Check is the only show in Canada with the explicit purpose of pushing back against

00:00:45.680 these baseless claims. So if you enjoy the show and you think that it's important for other Canadians to

00:00:50.480 hear the facts, then please consider supporting True North. You can donate at donate.tnc.news.

00:00:56.960 Now to this week's show. Back to school season is amongst us. It's fall in Canada,

00:01:01.680 but before the students even hear that first recess bell ring, you're going to hear Canadian

00:01:06.640 politicians, specifically leftist politicians, calling for free tuition in Canada. The idea of

00:01:12.640 free tuition has infected the Canadian political discourse coming from the United States, specifically

00:01:18.000 from politicians such as AOC, Bernie Sanders, and specifically in Canada, this idea has really

00:01:23.680 taken off amongst the New Democratic Party, the NDP federally, and also the Greens. Take a listen.

00:01:29.920 From kindergarten to post-secondary, barrier free. Free tuition. That's what we believe in.

00:01:35.600 We would immediately and permanently remove all interest from federal student debt for all students.

00:01:41.120 And for students in need, we would make sure that we forgive student debt.

00:01:45.040 The Green Party is very clear on this. Education at the post-secondary level,

00:01:50.320 like from kindergarten to 12, should be free. Will the government make tuition-free

00:01:56.400 post-secondary education a pillar of the post-COVID recovery plan? By announcing that the Ontario Greens

00:02:03.520 are committed to providing free tuition for 60,000 young people. Free tuition. This is something that

00:02:13.840 sounds like it might be out of reach, but it's not. So if you're not watching this clip on YouTube,

00:02:18.480 that was Jagmeet Singh, the federal NDP leader. That was a number of different Green Party leaders.

00:02:24.720 Federally, that was members of parliament and members of provincial parliament, all from this NDP

00:02:30.000 Green Party camp, all calling for free tuition in Canada. Of course, free tuition is an issue that's

00:02:35.840 been taken up by student unions in Canada, including the Canadian Federation of Students, CFS. But

00:02:41.680 clearly this issue is not relegated to just the university campus. It's been taken up by federal

00:02:47.680 and provincial politicians as well. The left has three main arguments why they think tuition should

00:02:52.160 be free in Canada. One, because the cost of tuition prevents people from going to post-secondary.

00:02:56.800 Two, because it would provide an economic benefit to Canada. And three, it's an equity issue. So let's

00:03:01.680 start off by debunking argument number one, that the cost of tuition is the reason why people don't

00:03:05.920 go to post-secondary in Canada. First, we need to address the idea that tuition is not free in Canada.

00:03:11.680 Yes, when you go to post-secondary, you will pay tuition or fees. But what you may not know is that

00:03:18.000 the vast majority of universities revenue does not come from your tuition dollars. You might have in your

00:03:23.920 head that my tuition covers 100% of my educational expenses, but that is not the case. According to

00:03:29.600 Statistics Canada, tuition makes up less than one-third of universities' total revenue. It's about 29%.

00:03:36.720 That means that 71% of the money that universities get every year comes from other sources that aren't

00:03:42.720 tuition. For example, provincial governments are actually the largest funder of post-secondary

00:03:47.840 institutions, and they cover a bigger portion of the revenue that universities take every year,

00:03:53.040 more than what your tuition covers. My point is that while university is not free in Canada,

00:03:58.240 it is heavily subsidized, so more than two-thirds. Moving on. If it is true that the cost of tuition

00:04:04.400 is the reason why people aren't going to school, costly tuition is preventing them from going to

00:04:09.200 post-secondary, then you would think that comparing Canada, where you do pay at least a portion of your

00:04:14.240 tuition, that Canada would have lower rates of post-secondary attendance than other countries where

00:04:19.440 tuition is free. But this is not the case. An OECD report shows that Canada consistently ranks as one of

00:04:26.160 the most educated countries in the entire world. What the most recent OECD report shows is that in

00:04:32.560 Canada, 64% of 25 to 34-year-olds have completed tertiary education, which means basically professional

00:04:40.000 or vocational programs after high school. So that's 64% in Canada. That's higher than countries with free

00:04:46.640 tuition, such as France, which is at 49%, Denmark, 47%, Finland, 45%, and Germany, which offers free tuition,

00:04:55.600 and is only at 35%, which is almost half the rate of Canadian 25 to 34-year-olds who have completed

00:05:02.800 tertiary education. This stat alone should clearly debunk the idea that people in Canada are not going

00:05:07.600 to school because of the cost of tuition. The Montreal Economic Institute also puts out a report that

00:05:12.400 really corroborates these findings from the OECD report. What they found is that Quebec has not the

00:05:16.800 lowest cost of tuition anywhere in Canada, yet their attendance at post-secondary is much lower than

00:05:23.040 provinces such as Ontario or Nova Scotia that have much costlier tuition. So clearly there must be

00:05:28.720 other factors at play that influence a person's decision of whether or not to go to post-secondary,

00:05:33.120 aside from just the cost of tuition, but we'll get to that later. While we're on the topic of costs,

00:05:37.840 let's take a quick look at the NDP's website. On its page about students, it says,

00:05:42.240 Young people shouldn't start out with a mountain of debt. Let's dive in. StatsCan says that the average

00:05:48.080 student loan upon graduation with a bachelor's degree is about $28,000. So if leftists agree that

00:05:54.320 this sum of $28,000 is unacceptable for young people to start out with, then it's odd that they're so

00:06:00.160 silent on the issue of government debt. Every single Canadian's individual portion of the federal debt

00:06:06.480 is approximately $32,500. But your share of government debt doesn't stop there. If you live in

00:06:12.320 the province of Ontario, your individual portion of government debt in the province is about $31,300.

00:06:19.680 So when you combine those numbers, your debt from the federal government and your portion of debt

00:06:23.040 from the provincial government, every single Ontarian owes $64,000 in government debt. Of course,

00:06:29.120 you'll repay this as a future tax liability. So it is a bit odd that leftists take issue with

00:06:33.680 someone who's decided to take a bachelor's degree graduating with an average debt load of $28,000,

00:06:38.960 yet they're pretty quiet about every single baby being born in Ontario, already owing $64,000 worth

00:06:46.080 of government debt for services that he or she hasn't even used. So to conclude, if leftist politicians

00:06:51.200 actually cared about young people starting out with a mountain of debt, the first thing they should do 0.99

00:06:55.200 is balance their budget. Let's move on to debunk the leftist's second argument in favor of free tuition,

00:07:00.160 which is that it would provide an economic benefit to Canada. So first of all, let's just start by

00:07:04.000 agreeing with the basic fact that income does correlate with the decision to attend and complete

00:07:09.680 university. On average, university completion does correlate with higher incomes, more stable

00:07:14.560 employment, etc. This should be obvious because a lot of professional programs, for example,

00:07:18.800 with really high earners in the medical field, law, business, all of them have had to complete

00:07:24.320 professional degrees to work in that profession. But it doesn't always follow that the decision to get a

00:07:30.640 university degree provides a good return on investment. For example, an OECD report found

00:07:36.080 that 36% of Canadian adults were working in a field different from the one in which they studied.

00:07:41.840 So immediately from that statistic, it should be clear that Canadians aren't always using their

00:07:46.000 degree after they finish school. In a world where taxpayers are picking up the entire freight and the

00:07:50.560 entire cost of that degree, it's unclear how they're going to get a return on that investment.

00:07:54.800 Now, a common theme on Reality Check on this show, if you've been watching all past episodes,

00:07:59.440 is that you have to look at opportunity costs. When you're making a decision or an argument to spend

00:08:05.040 money in one area saying it will spur these economic benefits, you always have to show how

00:08:10.480 those benefits outweigh the costs of wherever you're taking the money from. If you're going to

00:08:15.840 take money out of taxpayers' pockets, out of the economy to fund free tuition for Canadian students,

00:08:21.920 you have to demonstrate how that is better than leaving the money where it was. And a quick look at

00:08:27.040 some courses on offer across the country might have you a little bit skeptical. Here are some

00:08:31.520 courses currently on offer at the University of Toronto. The Politics of Girlhood, Drunk History,

00:08:38.720 Lesbian Studies, The Yard, Microgeographies of Household Outdoor Spaces, Sexuality and Disability,

00:08:46.640 Fake, S-H-I-T in History, The Beatles, and last but not least, Goddess Lessons, Gender, Religion, 1.00

00:08:55.360 and Pop. Now the course description for this last class, Goddess Lessons, includes asking questions

00:09:00.720 such as what does it mean to follow lesbian Jesus, end quote. A couple things, it's unclear how any of

00:09:07.200 these courses are preparing the next generation for the job market, but also it's highly questionable

00:09:12.400 that any of the content in these courses would spur economic growth. For an arts degree at the

00:09:17.120 University of Toronto, tuition on average for the first year of your bachelor's degree is about $6,100.

00:09:22.960 Now assuming you take 10 courses, 5 in the fall semester, 5 in the winter, that means that your

00:09:29.680 tuition per course is about $610. Keep in mind, as I said, tuition in Canada is heavily subsidized to

00:09:36.400 the tune of about two thirds. So that's about $1,800 that the course is going to cost to administer.

00:09:43.920 You only cover as a student about $610 of that. But if we eliminated tuition, as the leftists suggest we

00:09:49.680 should do, the actual cost of this program to administer each course would be about $1,800.

00:09:55.600 That's $1,800 per student in the class Drunk History or Lesbian Studies for every single student 0.81

00:10:03.040 to take this class. Or one of my personal favorites, Deconstructing Drake and the Weekend, which is the

00:10:08.640 course offered at Ryerson. So it really should be up to leftists arguing in favor of free tuition to

00:10:13.760 demonstrate how any of these courses will contribute to the economic betterment of Canada.

00:10:17.680 Finally, let's move on to the leftist third and final argument in favor of free tuition,

00:10:22.320 which is that it increases equity in Canada. Equity is different from equality. Equality says

00:10:26.960 we should treat everybody the same. Equity says that we have to recognize that people start in

00:10:31.600 different places. And so we have to treat them differently to try and level the playing field.

00:10:36.160 Presumably when leftists apply this equity lens to the tuition debate, they're saying that people

00:10:41.600 don't always start in the same place financially. So we have to help lower income people make that leap into

00:10:47.520 post-secondary by covering the cost of their tuition. But a universal free tuition policy does

00:10:52.400 the exact opposite of that. In fact, free tuition policy is often defined as a regressive one. The

00:10:58.800 opposite of progressive, it's regressive because it helps the rich people in Canada a lot more than it

00:11:04.000 would help the actual poor. As Tristan Hopper points out in a National Post column, according to

00:11:09.040 Statistics Canada, nearly 80% of children from the richest fifth of Canadian households go to post-secondary

00:11:15.040 education. Among children from the bottom fifth, the rate is less than 50%. So by eliminating tuition fees,

00:11:21.680 the benefits would disproportionately accrue to the wealthy Canadians already sending their kids to

00:11:26.320 university. And this really seems to be a common theme on this show, Reality Check, is questioning why

00:11:32.640 leftists, when they claim to want to help the most vulnerable in society or the lowest income, why they

00:11:38.320 always insist on these grand universal programs that pay for everything for everyone, even the rich who

00:11:44.160 don't need the help? Why not just focus your efforts on those who actually need it? Now, one of the weirder

00:11:49.600 claims that I found from the left regarding this issue of free tuition comes from the Green Party of

00:11:54.240 Canada. On their website, it states, and I quote, students are one of the most disadvantaged groups in

00:11:59.840 society, end quote. A Canadian student is in an incredible position of privilege. And this statement by the left is

00:12:05.040 contradictory in itself, because if they're saying that access to education is the path out of poverty

00:12:10.880 and a path of self-betterment and higher earning potential, then it's unclear why they would suggest

00:12:15.200 that a student is so disadvantaged. And if there is a genuine concern for equity here, then it's really

00:12:20.560 questionable why they would suggest that people who haven't had the opportunity or perhaps the

00:12:24.880 inclination to attend a post-secondary institution, why they should be saddled with the cost of sending

00:12:30.960 someone else too. As Norma Keziah from the Montreal Economic Institute said,

00:12:35.360 by broadly subsidizing higher education more heavily, the average taxpayer is in effect financing

00:12:40.960 the high salary earners of tomorrow. It should be asked if this is fair for people who do not benefit

00:12:46.560 from university to contribute to its financing to this extent. But ultimately painting the cost of

00:12:51.920 tuition as an equity issue fundamentally misunderstands the reason why people choose not to attend

00:12:57.520 post-secondary. As University of Ottawa economist Ross Finney points out, cultural factors are a more

00:13:03.520 relevant predictor of one's decision whether or not to attend post-secondary. Corroborating these findings,

00:13:10.080 Kelly Foley, who's an economic professor from the University of Saskatchewan, points out,

00:13:15.360 quote, research suggests that before students ever reach the barriers posed by the costs of applying for

00:13:21.040 and enrolling in university, disadvantage and less skills investment in early childhood can represent

00:13:27.120 a brick wall. Thus, the link between family income and university enrollment is largely, though not

00:13:32.480 entirely, driven by factors that wouldn't be ameliorated by making university free. So in conclusion,

00:13:38.640 eliminating the cost of tuition for Canadians would not eliminate the underlying factors that influence

00:13:44.400 why individuals choose to or to not attend post-secondary in Canada. So as a quick recap of the

00:13:49.680 arguments that we presented on today's show, when you hear leftists say that tuition in Canada should be

00:13:53.840 free, you can easily shut down that argument with the following three facts. One, Canada's already the

00:13:58.560 most educated country in the world, even more so than countries with free tuition. And two, nothing's

00:14:03.280 free. It comes from taxpayers who in this case are getting a terrible return on investment. Three, free

00:14:08.240 tuition is a regressive policy that benefits affluent students at the expense of those who didn't go to

00:14:12.960 university. So here's your reality check. The idea of free tuition in Canada is a dumb policy. Most likely

00:14:18.320 it's just a strategy to motivate the youth vote. And finally, politicians have run up debts on our

00:14:23.840 behalf that we're going to have to pay off that are way bigger than the average student loan. So if

00:14:28.080 anything, these politicians should really stop spending and take a class on how to balance a

00:14:32.000 budget. That's our show for this week. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you liked what you heard,

00:14:35.920 please share the show with a friend so that they can discover reality check too. And don't forget to

00:14:40.080 tune in next Wednesday as we'll be dropping another episode. Thanks so much. I'm Jasmine Moulton.

Juno News - August 24, 2022

Reality Check： Free tuition is a DUMB idea

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