00:00:00.000Welcome to The Candace Malcolm Show. My name is Chris Sims. I'm the Alberta Director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. I'm filling in for Candace this week. We have got a different sort of show for you today. Today is Thursday, September the 11th, and it's usually a very solemn day of reflection for many people. Today that's especially poignant because something horrible was done in the United States yesterday.
00:00:30.360Charlie Kirk, the founder of Turning Point USA, was shot and killed while he was on stage at a campus at a university in Utah. The reason why this is so important to talk about here on this show, on Candace Malcolm's show on Juneau News, and on behalf of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, is that Charlie Kirk was different.
00:00:55.700He wasn't what you would imagine to be a stereotypical, you know, commentator online that is, you know, owning people and destroying people in quick clips. He had his strong views, of course, as many of us do.
00:01:11.440But Kirk did the work. He started when he was 17 years old. One of my former colleagues at Sun News Network, who is now a producer for Glenn Beck, shared this online last night.
00:01:26.900And it's a tweet from back in 2011. So that would have been right in the middle of Sun News Network. And it was a tweet from one Charlie Kirk to then Glenn Beck, asking, saying, I'm a high school student. Here I am. I'm 17.
00:01:43.100And how do I fight debt and deficits? And how do I push back against bias? So he started very young. And he started Turning Point USA when he was 18 years old. And what was different about Kirk is that he did the work like he went from campus to campus to campus, speaking to people all the time, having those difficult conversations all the time.
00:02:11.840And I got to say, in the advocacy world, you know, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, we're an advocacy organization. We were started in 1990. We have a youth wing called Generation Screwed, which sets up booths and does tabling at campuses across Canada.
00:02:29.860And we have conversations about things like free speech and about things like the government not taxing you so hard that you can't afford a house, that you can't afford to heat the house, that you can't afford to drive or buy food.
00:02:43.180Sometimes those conversations can get pretty heated. Amplify that by the amplification that is the United States of America. And you can get a strong sense of what it was like at those campus meetings, year after year after year.
00:03:01.360And I got to say, as someone who kind of works in that ecosystem, getting out there at the grassroots level, you're missing stuff at home, you're on the road a lot, you're setting up the booth, you're putting up the banners, you're stacking the books, you're making sure the mic works, like you're having those in-person conversations all the time.
00:03:21.140And we have a compilation here that shows, generally, how Charlie Kirk talked to young people. Let's watch.
00:03:30.960I want to try to win you over as a liberal for Donald Trump. So you're going to give me a chance, okay?
00:03:35.680All right. Okay. There are three things I want you to think about when voting for Trump. Number one, homeownership. I imagine you want to own a home sometime in your life, right?
00:03:43.300All right. In order to own a home, you would have to make $125,000 a year right now just to be able to get the mortgage.
00:03:48.580When Trump was president, it was $75,000 a year. Because Kamala Harris and Joe Biden have spent $6 to $7 trillion of unnecessary federal spending, which have inflated asset prices.
00:03:58.940As a liberal, I imagine you don't like war, right? Under Donald Trump, it was the first president in 40 years where he had no new wars.
00:05:27.720We saw Premier Wab Kanu talking about this.
00:05:30.540Stateside, we had everybody from U.S. President Donald Trump to Gavin Newsom, Barack Obama, talking about this.
00:05:39.460So, Kirk did so much grassroots kind of sign up and get out there activism that he's wound up touching a lot of normal people and getting them engaged in politics.
00:05:53.780Now, you cannot want to, you know, sign up for the Republicans.
00:05:57.900That's obviously not what this is about.
00:05:59.980This was about someone who was using his voice in order to have conversations with young people and get them engaged.
00:06:07.340And you could picture someone who's trying to do it for a different party or for a different purpose,
00:06:13.120who's out there, microphone in hand, freedom T-shirt on, speaking to a crowd.
00:06:18.860And I think this is why this is affecting so many people.
00:06:22.800We're going to be speaking with a young person about this very soon.
00:06:27.220But I will share that a lot of, I would say, teenagers, so folks who were in grade 12 and up into the first years of university,
00:06:36.800this gentleman, Charlie Kirk, and his group, Turning Point, he's had a lot of influence on a lot of people.
00:06:44.780We can see here, there's a message from a gentleman in the United States who said that Charlie Kirk changed my life.
00:06:51.080I was 14 years old when I was trying to make a difference.
00:06:54.180And he reached out to me and, you know, treated me as an equal.
00:06:58.540And I went to all of his different events.
00:07:00.720And he said that, I think he eventually said that he had known Charlie Kirk for, I think, a third of his life because he's a really young person.
00:07:07.440There's another that shows, this is my favorite time where we were building the headquarters together back seven years ago.
00:07:14.840So the reason why I wanted to highlight this is because quite often in this circle, in this ecosystem, we're asking people to stand up and be heard.
00:07:27.020And it's really important that folks stay hopeful, stay very positive.
00:07:33.820And I would advise, turn the temperature down.
00:07:38.280Like, think about what you're going to post.
00:07:40.940Think about what you're going to tweet.
00:07:43.600Do your best to have a very civil dialogue, even if the person opposing you votes differently or has a different opinion.
00:07:53.240And I just wanted to encourage, especially the young people out there, that they can keep soldiering on.
00:08:00.460To get a better perspective of how Charlie Kirk and his organization, so that kind of grassroots, ground game activism, affects young people on both sides of the border when it comes to fighting for things like even debt and deficit.
00:08:16.520You saw that first tweet from Charlie Kirk, you know.
00:08:19.220Talking about things like that is our bread and butter, who's talking about accountable government, who's talking about getting rid of censorship and having free speech so that we can hold government to better account.
00:08:31.180To get a better sense of how this is rippling through the young community, let's find out now.
00:09:03.060Everybody's trying to have those really engaging conversations.
00:09:06.260And on the way home from the conference, I had my teenager with me, and I asked, what's your most influential political, like, leader who, like, you know, you think of when you think of something inspiring outside of Alberta?
00:09:33.180It did hit me really hard when this happened, because I think that you couldn't say anything more than that Charlie Kirk was a deeply decent man.
00:09:41.120And I think what really made him, like, a powerful person is that before politics and before everything, the man loved God first.
00:09:48.800And so that drove the way that he did everything.
00:09:51.980And when you're at a conference like we were at a few days ago, this was just a Canada Strong and Free Network.
00:09:59.500It wasn't a TPUSA event, but everything felt like it was kind of influenced by Charlie Kirk, because so many ways that we do things in Canadian politics, in American politics, is based off of things that Charlie Kirk had just been pioneering over the past few years,
00:10:16.820which was direct conversation, direct grassroots organizing, you know, an opposition to radicalism.
00:10:25.700And I think, like a lot of young people, even though I was never somebody who met him in real life, even things I do on my own show, I'd taken from things that Charlie Kirk had done.
00:10:36.760And, like, I'd gotten inspiration from the way that he had done a lot of political organizing on the ground, tried to engage people, not just wanting people to, you know, watch content, but also go out there and then get involved themselves.
00:10:51.220So, yeah, it was, it's, if he's going to, it's going to be sort of trite to say, because I think a lot of people are going to keep saying it, but I think it's right that it's going to be a big void left for people to fill, considering all the work he had done that I don't think can be easily replicated.
00:11:08.740You said that very well. In the intro, we were showing just some of the very personal expressions online that I found on X and other people were seeing on X.
00:11:19.960And just young person after young person after young person saying something along the lines of,
00:11:24.780I was just a, you know, grade 12 high school kid who wanted to make a difference in my community.
00:11:29.380And I started doing videos and this guy, Charlie Kirk, reached out to me and helped me get a grassroots thing going and actually roll my sleeves up and do it and organize it and do it earnestly.
00:11:42.160And, like, people who have no followers were getting contacts like this.
00:11:46.740And do you think that he kind of set himself apart in the sense that there's a lot of commentators that are online?
00:11:53.740I realize I'm one of those people doing one of those things right now, but there's, I find that there's a difference between those who are kind of closed into the studio, always talking on camera, versus those who also get out there.
00:12:09.420They're driving the vehicles, they're setting up the banners, they're setting up the booths, they've got a stack of books, they've got a microphone in their hand.
00:12:16.420Do you think he really set himself apart in that way?
00:12:19.040I think he sacrificed a lot of, like, in terms of his time and even, to a certain extent, his popularity.
00:12:27.760And it's hard to underestimate how popular he was, but in the sense that he would use his show in order to drive change, in the sense that he was not trying to get people to watch, to say the flashiest thing, to have, you know, the hottest take.
00:12:43.040It was, at the end of the day, that you have to get involved too, that you can't sit back and just consume politics as entertainment, that at the end of the day, you need to go out there and actually create social change yourself.
00:12:54.840And I think that a great example of how you do that is, yes, reaching out to people who nobody knows who they are and maybe probably doesn't have a lot of people paying attention to them.
00:13:04.200But he would recognize talent or even recognize even just the potential for real talent at something and want to take away his time.
00:13:11.280He could be doing something else. He could be making money.
00:13:13.480He could be trying to, you know, make more of a figure of himself and he would go and try and make a figure of somebody much smaller.
00:13:20.000That's really well put. What is it in particular about Charlie Kirk's approach that appeals to young people?
00:13:29.080Because I know that there's just so many young people.
00:13:32.460So at the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, we have a youth wing called Generation Screwed and they go to campuses like they're directly talking to other students all the time.
00:13:41.120They're doing their tabling, as they call it, always reaching out because we have a message of low taxes, less waste, accountable government, small government, right?
00:13:48.400What was it about Kirk's approach that you think attracted so many young people to it?
00:13:54.880Was it because he was so enthusiastic and he was giving them the tools in their hands or what was it, do you think?
00:14:00.740It was definitely the enthusiasm. He was a positive figure.
00:14:04.960And I think what also got a lot of people into politics or at least directly into campaigning was just the actual change they could see him making.
00:14:14.540Because obviously young people do want to make positive change in the world.
00:14:20.560And I think they also saw somebody doing it who, you know, wasn't a firebrand, was a decent person who, you know, would, again, go out of his way to help other people.
00:14:33.220And so it wasn't somebody you're looking at who seems politically cynical.
00:14:38.000He was the furthest thing from a cynic.
00:14:40.520And I think that that's what a lot of people were attracted by.
00:14:43.220It wasn't what happens a lot in politics today that of naysaying and trying to, like, mock other people or trying to simply win for the sake of it.
00:14:55.320Yeah, I don't recall many, you know, video thumbnails of destroys or, you know, things like that in the same way that I see with other commentators, both on the right and the left.
00:15:11.260It's difficult because he was clearly one of those folks that we want more of.
00:15:17.800We want more people respectfully speaking with others across the aisle, so to speak, talking about difficult subjects, okay?
00:15:26.420Just, it's such a muted Canadian example compared to what's going on in the States.
00:15:31.420But for the longest time, even talking about the carbon tax in Canada.
00:15:35.280I mean, I was screamed at and called a climate change denier and a monster and you want people to burn in their homes.
00:15:40.780Like, things can get kind of nuts out there when you're actually there advocating and speaking with a microphone in your hand.
00:15:47.800Where do you see this going for, especially for young people?
00:15:51.820Because I didn't want to dominate the conversation with just my generation and older because I really sensed the loss for your generation and I'm sorry for that.
00:16:02.580Where do you see this going for kind of the youth movement, for smaller government, more freedom?
00:16:07.440I wouldn't be able to predict exactly where it's going to go, but I think where I'd like to see it go is that in the wake of this, that a lot of people would want to step up and kind of become Charlie Kirk as well.
00:16:21.140In the sense of not being, you know, being scared into doing what's right, but just following the model of somebody who would always do what was right, no matter what.
00:16:31.320And I think that that's something that people can't assume that now something's over rather than you can do it too.
00:16:38.100That there was somebody who proved that it was possible.
00:16:40.760So that means you can absolutely follow the model.
00:16:43.060What did you think about the wide response to this?
00:16:48.040I know, like, in my own circles, of course, people were upset and shocked and talking about it a lot.
00:16:53.740But it wasn't too soon before, like, we saw Boris Johnson commenting on this.
00:16:58.160Barack Obama came out and talked about this.
00:17:00.600Wob Canoo came out with a video statement about this.
00:17:03.300Like, he really seems to have affected a lot of people.
00:17:06.440And the thing is, like, naturally, you're not expecting people in high positions to have anything negative to say.
00:17:15.480But at the same time, I think that you get to say, especially when it comes to Charlie Kirk, again, going back to his decency, that I don't think anyone could disagree about his actual virtue.
00:17:25.240You can disagree with his particular policy solutions at times if you want, but there was never an edge to him where he was too, you know, he was too nasty to engage with in some way.
00:17:39.220Even Gavin Newsom, when he wanted to pick somebody from the other side to do a podcast with to discuss issues, he chose Charlie Kirk for a reason.
00:17:47.660It's because Charlie Kirk is not there to hit him with a gotcha.
00:17:51.780You know, he believes maybe someone like Newsom is wrong, but he's there to talk with him and discuss the issues and try and bring him to his side.
00:18:01.120And even if you have actually seen Gavin Newsom since then, in a lot of ways, he's actually had to moderate on positions post talking to Charlie Kirk.
00:18:34.800Very good to hear from someone in their 20s talking about how this affects them going forward.
00:18:40.280And for being out in the field, it doesn't really get more grassrootsy, like we were pointing out, than something like the Turning Point USA organization.
00:18:51.380There's others, of course, that do, you know, a lot of leadership training in that in the United States.
00:18:57.040And there's those of us who do things like this on this side of the border in Canada.
00:19:00.920And one of the gentlemen that really helps make that happen, who is with, you know, who was with Preston Manning.
00:20:37.240And I often try to end my interviews or my podcast shows or any of my speeches that I do, mic and hand on stage, with get out there, get active, speak to your neighbors, tell 10 friends.
00:21:07.480And it's from a 17-year-old, Charlie Kirk, reaching out to who was then a huge media star and still is in the alternative media, Glenn Beck.
00:21:16.000And he says, I'm concerned about debt and deficit.
00:21:20.940And he wanted to know how he got out there and would fight.
00:21:41.100I mean, and I think it hit home, you know, personally to me and to you and to many others we know, Chris, because sometimes we think if something terrible like that happens, it's a politician.
00:21:55.060But this is someone who was in civil society.
00:21:58.100It was someone who was out there doing political advocacy who chose not to be a partisan.
00:22:04.780So it just made you think that much deeper.
00:22:07.460And, you know, I was talking about and thinking about all of the years out on college campuses, university campuses, you take it for granted.
00:22:19.420You would never think or comprehend that something like this would happen.
00:22:25.040You know, free expression, exchanging ideas in the arena of ideas is at the heart of liberal democracy.
00:22:32.760And so no matter what side of the fence you are, this event pierces at that.
00:22:38.800It pierces at the very essence of what we take for granted, I think it's fair to say, in this country, in the United States and in the Western world, the right to be able to exchange ideas freely.
00:22:51.700In that, you know, in public, online, in written words, on doing shows like this.
00:23:02.420And so it's, I think it's, it's obviously a sad day, I think, for those of us that do this kind of work.
00:23:10.340But, but obviously, too, for a family, a man of just 31 years old with two young children under the age of five.
00:23:18.240I mean, obviously, that's very personal for those of us that are parents, too.
00:24:53.440If I could, because I'll be honest, I, I didn't, I wasn't someone who always agreed with Charlie Kirk, but I thought he was interesting.
00:25:01.400And he was a conservative with a smile.
00:25:04.860He definitely had a personality and a persona.
00:25:08.580He was a successful entrepreneur and businessman.
00:25:11.080And in that sense, I think he was a good role model.
00:25:13.580What I liked and respected about him though, is he would talk to absolutely anyone.
00:25:19.760There's a quote, and I've seen this quote before of him going around.
00:25:23.840Someone asked him, why are you on our campus?
00:25:26.280And he had the simple quote, when people stop talking, that's when violence begins.
00:25:31.720Bit of an ironic quote, but it's so true.
00:25:34.540I saw him once, he was on a podcast with women in the pornography industry and talking to them about the importance of monogamy and relationships and religion and things.
00:25:46.380He was, he, he was everywhere and, uh, he reveled in it and he was good at it and there was a likability about him.
00:25:53.660And so that's how he became a successful.
00:25:57.400He was, I'm told turning point had a budget of over $90 million.
00:26:00.220Now I can tell you as someone who has built organizations, whether it was the one we worked with, Chris, or the ones I work with now, building an empire that size is absolutely a remarkable success.
00:26:12.280So I just wanted to acknowledge that now.
00:26:28.260Uh, and I, I, I just don't know that that's the case.
00:26:31.980I think we are living in such an amped up time with our politics and with our rhetoric that even something as simple yesterday as a moment of silence in the U S Congress.
00:27:32.840Um, I will say to your point with the way that, uh, Charlie Kirk built his empire and how he worked.
00:27:38.560Um, it was, it's, it's, it's my kid's generation who, who watch him all the time, like deeply influential for high schoolers and a little bit up.
00:27:47.340Um, and so, but when I would tune in, cause I want to see what they're watching, right?
00:27:52.080Um, what struck me was his Socratic method with people who clearly wouldn't vote the way he votes.
00:28:02.320And, uh, quite often I would see him, you could see him like almost physically bringing the temperature down to your point.
00:28:10.640And then as a long time radio host, um, who's like, you'd have to talk to lots of people in those situations.
00:28:18.320I think it's really important to meet people where they're at, find a sense of common ground.
00:28:24.680If someone's really upset, tone down the rhetoric, bring down the temperature, say, I hear you.
00:28:33.020Let's talk about something we can both agree on.
00:28:35.920And then you start doing baby steps from there.
00:28:38.480And I, I notice like probably not every single interaction, but many of the interactions I watched on those videos, he would do that of let's unpack this as the Socratic method of why do you think that and what's next and what's next.
00:28:53.400And it was, it was remarkable because sometimes they'd come in hot, like those would be kind of a hostile thing.
00:28:59.460I think the tent said, you know, prove me wrong.
00:29:21.340I'm aging myself a bit, but you remember William F. Buckley in the 1960s used to go around to university campuses, but William F. Buckley didn't have X and social media.
00:29:31.980So did Ayn Rand, actually, one of our other favorites.
00:29:34.260So, um, in some ways he's the, when you talk about young people today who wouldn't know who William F. Buckley is, but they know who Charlie Kirk is, in some ways he's a reflection of the times that way.
00:29:45.860Um, but I think, you know, it's, it's been a good contribution and the fighting to make sure that, you know, university campuses are bastions of ideas and exchanges of, of, um, open debate, um, is very important.
00:29:59.740So, yeah, I think in that spirit, something will continue what that looks like.
00:30:04.260We don't know, but obviously he was a significant figure in, in that work, um, in that work going forward.
00:30:10.200Um, I, you know, I have to say, um, I, I, I go back to the 1980s, um, back to the eighties and nineties.
00:30:21.740We used to look each other in the eyes more, there's something, a dynamic that changes.
00:30:29.300Even if you disagree with someone, if you can look them in the eyes and sit across from them, that relationship is so much different than today.
00:30:36.920What I fear is hiding behind the internet, hiding behind your keyboard.
00:30:41.920And it's just so much easier to get amped up with the language and the accusations of, of people you may disagree with and actual hatred of people that you've never looked at or sat beside or had lunch with, or even talked to, for goodness sakes.
00:31:42.160And, um, it, I w it was remarkable to see quite quickly, um, statements coming out from not only U.S. President Donald Trump, but former U.S. President Barack Obama, former U.S. President Joe Biden, Gavin Newsom, Boris Johnson, Wob Canoe, Daniel Smith.
00:31:58.840Like, it was very quick to have people say, whoa, whoa, like, let's not do this.
00:32:14.040Um, so at the, at the Manning Foundation, like, so for folks who don't know, it's named after Preston Manning, the former, the founder of the Reform Party, of course.
00:32:23.120And you guys do so much direct work with young people.
00:32:26.420Uh, I know we were just, uh, pushing the fact that you guys have an essay contest, like an entry contest for, for undergrad students.
00:32:34.000Like, this is how directly groups like yours are involved with young people of exactly this age group.
00:32:41.020Um, what are you hearing, um, that is inspiring young people right now?
00:32:46.780Are, are they fighting for things like owning a home?
00:32:49.040It was interesting, right off the top of the show, we played a clip of Charlie Kirk saying, do you care about being able to ever own a house?
00:33:31.560I want opportunities for young people in this country.
00:33:33.740So, you know, for everyone that wants, um, a better future that has ideas to contribute, um, to, to how we can do that, stay involved, stay engaged.
00:33:45.740Don't let events like this take, take away from anything, but at the same time, I think we need to take responsibility ourselves.
00:33:55.160I am not going to blame the radical left.
00:34:22.520Um, and let's also try and be a little more respectful and civil to each other as we go forward.
00:34:27.320Remember that the person across from you is a person.
00:34:31.880And, um, I was, I was struck by what you said, because I think that's one of the reasons why Charlie Kirk was going physically to the campuses.
00:34:40.040He wasn't a, it wasn't a keyboard warrior.
00:34:44.580And I, I would encourage anybody who's, who's watching the show, who doesn't like us, um, go watch long form video of him talking with people.
00:34:55.380And again, there's going to be moments where you disagree with him completely.
00:36:03.000Um, he's responsible for bringing a lot of young people up through the movement, uh, advocating for lower taxes, less waste, and smaller, more accountable government, which, of course, pulls in things like making sure we aren't being censored so that we can advocate.
00:36:19.920So that we can hold government to account, and so that we can speak freely.
00:36:24.420I will point out that Charlie Kirk died on stage, with a microphone in his hand, with freedom on his t-shirt.