Juno News - Roman Baber says his 'democratic conservatism' will grow the Conservative base

00:00:01.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show. This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:10.860 Coming up, an in-depth and wide-ranging interview with Independent Ontario MPP and Conservative Leadership Candidate, Roman Bavard.

00:00:18.680 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:21.960 Hello and welcome to another edition of the Andrew Lawton Show, Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show here on True North, on Friday, March 18th, the day after St. Patrick's Day.

00:00:34.680 So I hope you are, well, if you celebrated, I hope you were able to wake up this morning without any issues, or that if you did, it was all worth it.

00:00:43.300 In any case, we are going to have another one of our in-depth chats with a Conservative Leadership Candidate today.

00:00:48.900 As I mentioned, we're going to, as leadership candidates declare, send them invitations to come on the show.

00:00:53.960 So far, we have spoken to three of them.

00:00:56.900 So if you'd like to go back and check out my interviews with Jean Charest, with Leslie Lewis, or with Pierre Paulyev, you can do that over at tnc.news.

00:01:05.520 Today, it is my pleasure to have on Roman Babber, who's an independent member of the Provincial Parliament in Ontario, elected in 2018, and was summarily expelled from the PC Caucus by Premier Doug Ford over a very strong disagreement, we'll say, about the Doug Ford government's handling of COVID response.

00:01:25.500 We'll get to all of that and more.

00:01:27.000 Roman Babber joins me now.

00:01:28.840 Roman, good to talk to you.

00:01:29.760 Thanks very much for coming on today.

00:01:31.920 Good to be with you, Andrew.

00:01:32.820 Now, I mentioned just very briefly in my introduction there that you have had quite an interesting trajectory in the last few years.

00:01:41.220 You ran as a PC MPP in 2018, the same election in which I also did that.

00:01:45.780 We had slightly different fates.

00:01:47.400 You won, I lost.

00:01:48.500 But ultimately, you took a very strong stand against the PC government's handling of the COVID response and have continued to speak up against vaccine mandates, vaccine passports, and so on.

00:02:00.080 And here you are as an independent.

00:02:02.100 Now, let me ask you why you want to now take what you've done and try to be the Prime Minister, run for the leadership of the federal Conservatives.

00:02:10.320 I think that over the last couple of years, I've demonstrated courage and leadership to say what I believe and to say what is necessary in defense of Canadians.

00:02:18.600 I'm very concerned about the state of Canada's democracy, the travel restrictions, the limits on mobility, the censorship, the federal mandates that are actually evolving.

00:02:30.740 And I'm of the view that I'm best positioned to speak on these issues authentically, restore Canada's democracy.

00:02:38.940 And I'm also very passionate about Canada's opportunity.

00:02:41.700 I'm an immigrant to Canada.

00:02:43.360 I came from the former Soviet Union and then Israel.

00:02:46.300 And at age 15, to the writing, I represent right now.

00:02:48.980 And I've had every opportunity to work, to study, to succeed.

00:02:52.280 And I'm concerned that this Canadian opportunity is now being eroded.

00:02:56.780 When you look at your value add, what you want to bring to the table here as leader of the Conservatives, what is it specifically?

00:03:06.420 Because obviously the stand you've described is one that a lot of people would resonate with.

00:03:10.340 But the issues that people are going to be confronting and are confronting are more complex than the issues that you've become, I think, most known for championing in the last two years.

00:03:18.680 So what is it that you want to bring?

00:03:19.920 What's the overall vision?

00:03:21.000 Well, I think I'm best positioned to the Conservative Party of Canada because of my values and outlook on the world.

00:03:29.760 I am, as I said, I'm concerned about the fact that we no longer respect basic fundamental freedoms and rights, not just in abstention, not just in absence of COVID, but just in everyday life.

00:03:43.140 And that primarily manifests itself through speech.

00:03:46.300 Canadians are afraid to speak out.

00:03:47.940 I'm of the view that the disaster, being the COVID response that we've endured in the last couple of years, primarily resulted from honest professionals, like myself, from being unable to articulate a sensible view as to whether our COVID response makes sense.

00:04:03.960 It's a very serious infection.

00:04:05.720 We know, however, who it attacks, and we know that most of the risk is in congregate homes.

00:04:10.040 So why log down 15 million Ontarians or 36 million Canadians and make them sick? 0.97

00:04:16.000 Unfortunately, regulatory institutions, governments, places of business engaged in this cancel culture that thwarted any sensible discussion.

00:04:27.940 I think that I will appeal to a lot of folks that left our party during the last election by attracting them back and effectively apologizing that the Conservative Party did not stand up for them against passports and mandates.

00:04:41.260 I will speak to the social conservative wing of the party by respecting democratic conservatism.

00:04:46.080 My caucus will always entertain diversity of opinion.

00:04:49.200 I will not have any litmus test for who can run for the Conservative Party of Canada.

00:04:52.740 And I'll also hope to speak to our friends in the West by having a very robust energy policy.

00:05:01.060 Now, when you say no litmus test for who can run for the Conservative Party, this raises, I think, an identity question for the Conservatives.

00:05:09.360 Because we've seen, certainly in Ontario PC politics, leaders get very heavily involved in who candidates are, appointments versus nominations.

00:05:17.560 But when you take that blank slate approach, do you not risk diluting what your party is if it becomes a party that anyone and everyone, regardless of who they are and what they represent, could run for it?

00:05:30.320 Look, I think that members of Parliament serve their constituents.

00:05:34.900 They don't work for the leader.

00:05:36.860 They don't work for the party.

00:05:38.600 They work for the people that elected them.

00:05:40.240 And you have to have faith that local members of the party, that local Conservatives or people that want to join the Conservative Party to shape the nomination, espouse the values that we all do.

00:05:53.480 But we have more than unites us as Conservatives, than divides us.

00:05:58.480 We all agree that we must respect Canada's democracy.

00:06:02.040 We agree that we need to restore faith in government.

00:06:04.280 We agree that free enterprise is a pillar and property rights are a pillar of democracy.

00:06:09.620 We agree that we want to, for the most part, that we have to develop Canadian energy because it's not just in the strategic interest of our country, but also in the economic interest of our country.

00:06:22.080 And so I think that we have a lot that unites us.

00:06:24.820 But I myself suffered from a deficit of democracy within a caucus.

00:06:29.780 When I articulated a fair, sensible, polite position to the Premier of Ontario on some of the greatest difficulty that our generation has ever faced, I was asked to leave caucus.

00:06:42.460 And that cannot happen because foreclosing or preventing diversity of opinion is not just bad for public policy.

00:06:50.320 It's bad for our democracy.

00:06:52.540 When you look at the spectrum that exists within the Conservative Party of Canada, we often hear the line, the big blue tent.

00:07:00.400 And you've got your libertarians, your social conservatives, your rural conservatives, your any form of conservative or centrist really can be under that.

00:07:10.240 And the party takes great pride in that.

00:07:12.500 Where do you see yourself personally in that?

00:07:14.780 Because a lot of people outside of Ontario might not be familiar with you.

00:07:17.480 Where do you place yourself in that big blue tent?

00:07:21.600 Andrew, I think the description Democratic-Conservative fits that most because that description would encompass all the other spectrums and welcome all other spectrums that you speak of.

00:07:34.520 Folks generally know that on economic issues and on foreign affairs matters, I come from what you would refer to as the blue side of the party.

00:07:44.820 On social issues, however, I've always been on record that I don't believe the government has a role in telling people how to start their family or how to grow their family.

00:07:55.500 I'm also pro-medical choice.

00:07:57.000 That's why, even though I'm voluntarily vaccinated, I have opposed vaccine passports, vaccine mandates.

00:08:03.560 I've brought legislation to the provincial parliament to outlaw mandates, which the Doug Ford Progressive Conservative Party voted down on second reading.

00:08:14.760 And so I'm in favor of people making their own medical decisions.

00:08:18.940 So those can co-exist.

00:08:21.940 At the same time, I would welcome social conservatives by respecting their democratic rights to run and contest nominations, to introduce legislation.

00:08:31.880 Who am I, even as a leader of a party or as the leader of the party in the House, to tell a member of parliament that their sacred right to introduce legislation is usurped?

00:08:43.440 No way.

00:08:44.900 Libertarian conservatives, I've always been in favor of choice.

00:08:48.080 It works both ways.

00:08:49.620 And all of that goes back, Andrew, to democracy, to respecting our choices and respecting our views.

00:08:55.140 When you look at how you can best make an impact in politics, I have to raise this question, which I didn't even notice.

00:09:02.420 But someone pointed it out to me that your launch video that you released, I think it was last week, looked like it was filmed in the fall, actually.

00:09:09.780 So several months before we knew there was an opening in the conservative leadership race.

00:09:14.380 And I had heard rumblings.

00:09:15.620 Perhaps you can speak one way or another that you were planning on forming some provincial political party or running as an independent.

00:09:22.140 What were your initial plans and what made you change your mind to seek the federal conservative leadership?

00:09:29.460 So, of course, throughout the last year, I've entertained the prospect of running as an independent.

00:09:34.820 And I had a film crew for a day or two.

00:09:38.920 And they said, Roman, why don't we record your main political video?

00:09:42.060 This was in the fall.

00:09:43.320 And we went in front of my old high school, the William Lane McKenzie High School, which is a block away from where I'm seated right now in the very district that welcomed me as an immigrant.

00:09:51.280 And we recorded this political video.

00:09:53.780 But I will have an announcement shortly in the near future on my future in provincial politics as an independent.

00:10:05.240 But I regard this as a very unique moment, not just for our party, but our country.

00:10:11.540 I'm very concerned that we have never been down this road.

00:10:15.100 When Justin Trudeau says that he respects China's basic democracy, I'm concerned that he is, in fact, fulfilling partially some of his vision towards this.

00:10:25.880 And I think that as someone that was born in, in fact, the former Soviet Union and is familiar with the way that dictatorial regimes work,

00:10:34.860 that I must do everything in my power to advocate and preserve Canada's democracy.

00:10:40.920 I think we do have to speak to some extent about your plans provincially, though, because the provincial election scheduled in June

00:10:47.780 and the federal conservative leadership won't be wrapped up until September.

00:10:52.480 So, like, is there anything you can say about what your plans are?

00:10:55.760 Because I know that some people would not take too kindly if you were running again for one office while seeking another office.

00:11:01.360 But I also understand people need to have their options open.

00:11:05.860 Andrew, I appreciate your desire to break some news.

00:11:09.920 And I'm very respectful of that.

00:11:13.080 We will have we will make our intention provincially clear over the next week or two.

00:11:20.840 But I want to assure your viewers that I am all in in the race to lead the Conservative Party of Canada.

00:11:28.440 This is the greatest honor of my life.

00:11:30.960 I have always been a conservative and I love my party and I love my country.

00:11:35.460 I have a lot to contribute to this race.

00:11:37.100 You know, I'm very concerned as we're coming out of COVID that especially as we have so much going on around the world

00:11:44.840 that folks will forget very quickly what transpired in the last couple of years.

00:11:49.360 I'm not running on lockdowns.

00:11:50.880 I'm running on the culture and the ideology and the public policy decision making that brought it about.

00:11:56.100 And I'm concerned that some of the preparers of lockdowns and passports will say all of the methods that were employed on us,

00:12:03.620 that they worked, the censorship, the segregation, the misrepresentation of data, that cannot stay.

00:12:11.180 We have to be very unequivocal in disputing it, in putting it to rest.

00:12:17.500 So nothing like this can ever happen again.

00:12:19.500 There have been a few casualties of a culture in the PC Party of Ontario, like yourself,

00:12:27.840 that for speaking up have paid the price by being expelled from caucus or marginalized in some other way.

00:12:33.340 There's you, there's Rick Nichols, there's Belinda Carajalios, there's Randy Hillier.

00:12:37.900 Now he was expelled earlier, pre-COVID.

00:12:40.580 But one thing I've noticed is that all of you have been talking about very similar things in the last year,

00:12:45.960 but you've been doing it very differently.

00:12:47.420 And I think all of you now have been identifying with different parties as you do that.

00:12:52.600 And I'm wondering why there hasn't been unity in what should be,

00:12:56.620 in what you've described as a unifying message, even within the, if I can call you, the dissident MPPs in Ontario.

00:13:04.980 I can't, hard for me to speak to that, Andrew, but maybe that goes to the point that

00:13:10.220 when you approach this COVID question, and when you approach the lockdowns and passports,

00:13:15.100 I think that it's incumbent on us to articulate a moderate and sensible position.

00:13:20.800 I don't need to convince you or your viewers or, or Belinda or, or anyone else for that matter.

00:13:26.760 We are speaking to moderates.

00:13:29.100 We're speaking to independents.

00:13:30.600 We're speaking to people that are unsure about some of the public policy that, that goes on around us.

00:13:35.600 And so since I was removed from caucus, after speaking out against the lockdowns in, in January of 2021,

00:13:43.420 I have taken a very, very moderate and sensible approach to COVID.

00:13:47.600 COVID is a very serious infection.

00:13:49.860 It affects those primarily with metabolic conditions and, and those with serious comorbidities.

00:13:55.380 Most of the risk is in congregate settings, particularly in long-term care homes.

00:13:59.680 So we need to do everything possible to protect those settings while not hurting, not inflicting the collateral damage that lockdowns have.

00:14:10.700 And, and so instead of trying to, to break through a wall of a very difficult conversation,

00:14:15.720 I try to wedge day by day through sensible evidence-based persuasion.

00:14:20.720 And so I think maybe in my case, it was, it was mostly a matter of style, same with passports and, and mandates in the vaccine.

00:14:29.320 A lot of folks, particularly those in, in higher age categories, wanted to, and should have availed themselves of the protection of the vaccine.

00:14:38.540 And, and, and that is fine, but we are, we can certainly say with confidence that we should, regardless of the science,

00:14:47.120 we should never make anyone do anything against their will.

00:14:50.440 And that is a sensible position that I hope to articulate, not just to conservatives, but to Canadians.

00:14:56.420 Well, and it shouldn't be a controversial one.

00:14:59.040 I mean, when I was covering the trucker convoy, the very first weekend, one of the signs that stood out,

00:15:04.660 and the woman I interviewed her, who was holding the sign was she, her sign said,

00:15:09.620 BIPOC, fully vaxxed, pro-choice.

00:15:12.380 And there was a message there that was beautiful in its simplicity.

00:15:16.120 If I'm vaccinated, that doesn't mean I think you should have to be.

00:15:19.400 And we've lost that as a society.

00:15:21.220 So when you talk about freedom, when you talk about choice,

00:15:23.540 how do you break those messages through to a society that at times in the last two years,

00:15:29.540 hasn't really wanted to embrace choice and freedom in that way?

00:15:32.980 So articulating the phrase freedom or democracy in and of itself is insufficient

00:15:41.160 because we know, and I love the Charter very much,

00:15:45.100 and I, in fact, instruct a little bit on the Charter,

00:15:48.280 that the rights prescribed in the Charter are limited to a reasonably reasonable extent.

00:15:54.180 And so a lot of the opposition will say,

00:15:56.320 but wait a minute, Section 1 would limit such choice.

00:16:00.560 And so this is not just an argument of choice versus abridgment of choice.

00:16:05.460 There's also a scientific argument here.

00:16:07.780 And we have to be confident in the face of cancel culture,

00:16:12.200 in the face of very difficult media to speak about the science,

00:16:16.080 as long as we do it sensibly and credibly.

00:16:19.300 A couple of weeks ago, about a month ago,

00:16:21.100 the chief medical officer of health said that two doses of the vaccine

00:16:25.340 offer minimal protection against infection.

00:16:28.120 That means that the risk of infection is roughly the same,

00:16:33.240 and that takes away any argument that a vaccinated person

00:16:37.420 is less likely to transmit the virus because their risk of infection is lower.

00:16:42.480 That is now off the table.

00:16:44.500 The risk of transmission is the same between those that are vaccinated

00:16:47.780 and those that are not,

00:16:48.980 and that means that no one's putting anyone else at risk.

00:16:52.220 I did not articulate anything controversial right now.

00:16:55.100 I relied on the medical officer's evidence in support of the proposition,

00:17:00.220 against a hateful proposition,

00:17:02.100 that anyone's putting anyone at risk.

00:17:04.360 We haven't been doing that enough.

00:17:06.400 Yelling freedom on its own is not enough.

00:17:09.900 We have to have the courage to have the scientific conversation as well.

00:17:13.500 One of the big problems that we've seen from governments

00:17:18.620 at the federal and provincial levels is the weaponization of science,

00:17:22.300 and a lot of the same data to different people

00:17:26.640 are showing very different conclusions,

00:17:28.200 and it's interesting how cherry-picking the government,

00:17:32.340 how the government has resorted to cherry-picking a lot,

00:17:35.080 and I look at the travel mandates as a great example of this.

00:17:37.760 The federal government's own expert panel said hotel quarantine doesn't work,

00:17:41.040 and they said, no, no, no, we're listening to the science,

00:17:43.500 and I'm thinking, well, the scientists you hired just told you it doesn't work.

00:17:48.180 So how do you, again, I go back to the communication question

00:17:51.440 because you've expressed this as a value that you hold

00:17:54.040 of being able to communicate in a clear way to people on this.

00:17:57.840 How do you break through the fear that a lot of people have

00:18:01.880 because they believe the science has told them to be fearful?

00:18:05.500 Well, it goes back to expression, and it goes back to the fact

00:18:11.640 that we should resist in any way possible any temptation

00:18:16.720 to foreclose unfair discussion and speech.

00:18:20.320 Bill C-10, that's currently before Parliament, may in fact abridge

00:18:25.760 not just what some objective folks would be, hateful speech,

00:18:33.220 even though that's a very loaded term, Google has suggested

00:18:36.960 to the federal government that inadvertently fair and sensible

00:18:43.140 and accurate opinion and scientific opinion may also be swept

00:18:48.060 in this web of censorship.

00:18:50.660 So the best thing we can do is listen to all perspectives,

00:18:54.340 whether you're in management or you're in politics

00:18:56.880 or you're coaching a sports team.

00:18:58.700 When you hear more opinion, you have less blind spots

00:19:03.900 and you have a greater baseline for decision-making.

00:19:07.900 And it's very, very unfortunate that we're now subjected

00:19:11.220 to this ideology.

00:19:13.000 And I believe this is a radical left-wing ideology

00:19:15.980 that believes that it's holier than thou

00:19:20.040 and anyone that disagrees with it must come from a bad place.

00:19:24.260 And typically they impute motive or they impute evil.

00:19:29.840 And that's just not right.

00:19:31.180 We have to articulate that we are kind, we are well-meaning,

00:19:36.980 we love our country, we love our fellow man.

00:19:39.240 I did not oppose lockdowns because I wanted to compromise lives.

00:19:43.600 I opposed lockdowns because I wanted to save lives

00:19:46.160 because I felt that access to healthcare was compromised

00:19:49.300 and our mental health was catastrophic.

00:19:51.660 Yeah, that's a very fair point.

00:19:54.980 I'm glad you brought up Bill C-10 1.00

00:19:56.500 because there were two bills that I thought were tremendously dangerous

00:19:59.520 that were introduced in the last parliament.

00:20:01.860 One was C-10, which vastly expanded the government's regulatory purview

00:20:06.840 over the internet, including potentially to this show.

00:20:09.760 And the other was Bill C-36,

00:20:11.980 which would amend the Human Rights Act to put hate speech back in,

00:20:16.640 but with a definition of hate that is very subjective.

00:20:19.160 And that's the point because everyone listening would say,

00:20:21.200 well, yes, of course I'm against hate.

00:20:22.720 We all are.

00:20:23.720 And those two combined,

00:20:25.300 basically allowing government and big tech to collaborate

00:20:28.660 in zapping people's online content

00:20:31.200 had a lot of people resting uneasy.

00:20:33.060 And I was mortified by how the Conservative Party of Canada,

00:20:37.580 which did oppose C-10, the regulatory bill,

00:20:40.420 was silent on Bill C-36.

00:20:43.060 Aaron O'Toole did not say a word about it

00:20:44.600 until I asked him about it in the election.

00:20:46.180 And he gave a very wishy-washy answer.

00:20:48.680 Now, just to put it on the record,

00:20:50.020 you're saying that you will resist and oppose any censorship bills.

00:20:55.460 Absolutely.

00:20:56.940 Not only that, we have to,

00:21:00.180 we have a criminal record framework,

00:21:04.180 sorry, a criminal code framework,

00:21:06.180 which essentially suggests that

00:21:08.320 there's a very clear line on speech.

00:21:10.920 And that is when, God forbid,

00:21:14.220 it may result, lead to violence

00:21:16.120 or seem to incite violence.

00:21:19.360 And that line has been defied for a reason.

00:21:22.680 Because as governments of the day change,

00:21:25.820 their perspective on what's right or wrong changes.

00:21:29.620 And so we don't know what governments will be thinking,

00:21:33.800 what popular culture will be thinking

00:21:35.480 five, 10, 20 years from now to deem hateful.

00:21:39.660 So that's very, very important.

00:21:41.260 Second of all, we have the freedom.

00:21:44.520 We don't have the freedom against being offended.

00:21:49.220 And that is very, very important.

00:21:51.300 We have to be able to analyze situations

00:21:54.900 and try and call it fairly.

00:21:56.620 And that's what I think C-36 would do, 0.98

00:22:00.560 is that it would essentially prohibit an opinion

00:22:04.760 that Justin Trudeau might find objectionable.

00:22:09.760 And that is contrary to democracy.

00:22:12.240 It is contrary to the values of our country.

00:22:14.660 What happened to classical liberal values,

00:22:17.300 such as, I might disagree with you,

00:22:20.200 but I will defend your right to articulate your opinion.

00:22:23.400 And I'm very saddened.

00:22:25.920 And that is probably the main reason why I'm in this race.

00:22:29.240 Well, and you've spoken very openly about your background

00:22:32.260 growing up in the Soviet Union.

00:22:34.480 You know what it's like to live in an unfree country.

00:22:37.080 And I don't like making comparisons

00:22:38.620 between democratic countries

00:22:40.800 and dictatorships of various kinds,

00:22:43.500 because I do find that they're very simplistic.

00:22:45.540 But the point that I would bring that around to

00:22:48.060 is that you understand what freedom is

00:22:50.520 in a way that a lot of people might not.

00:22:52.360 So how does that color your view in Canada as a legislator

00:22:56.260 and now as a prospective conservative leader

00:22:58.600 and prospective prime minister?

00:23:01.440 Andrew, it shapes a lot of what I think and what I do.

00:23:04.800 And almost every decision is based on my perspective

00:23:08.100 that you always have to err on the side

00:23:10.620 of freedom of democracy.

00:23:12.760 And I think it's, I also hesitate to make that comparison.

00:23:18.180 But we have witnessed a number of remarkable similarities,

00:23:21.820 even in the Doug Ford government.

00:23:23.720 And I'm on record, I have a member statement

00:23:25.440 comparing Doug Ford, some of the Doug Ford government actions

00:23:28.960 to that of a communist regime.

00:23:30.880 For instance, when Doug Ford imposed a requirement

00:23:34.420 on private business to hang a political sticker,

00:23:38.640 even though it's about the carbon tax, which I oppose,

00:23:41.040 but when you force a small business

00:23:43.000 to hang political speech on its door,

00:23:47.320 or in this case, on the pump,

00:23:48.820 that's something that you expect of undemocratic regimes.

00:23:52.240 When you kick out members,

00:23:54.220 that's something you expect for their views.

00:23:57.520 That's something you expect of undemocratic regimes.

00:24:00.320 We saw Dean French try to engage in the former chief of staff

00:24:04.360 in certain patronage appointments.

00:24:05.880 I think there was, I think, a family member of a spouse

00:24:09.460 or maybe a friend of his son.

00:24:14.160 That is something, nepotism of that sort,

00:24:16.300 is something that you expect of undemocratic regimes.

00:24:18.980 When you pass the Crown Liability Proceedings Act

00:24:22.220 that helps the government shield itself from liability,

00:24:27.200 that is something you expect of undemocratic,

00:24:29.620 and being able to hold itself accountable in court,

00:24:32.460 that is something you expect out of undemocratic regimes.

00:24:35.020 When you change Bill 218 for families of victims,

00:24:40.400 of those that regretfully died in long-term care homes,

00:24:43.460 and you change the standard of negligence

00:24:45.380 in the middle of the court case,

00:24:47.720 not before the court case,

00:24:49.200 but in the middle of the case,

00:24:51.100 retroactively, that is undemocratic.

00:24:53.840 And so I think we have to be confident in calling it out

00:24:57.280 because we should not entertain the slippery slope that we're on.

00:25:01.680 I want to go through just a couple of somewhat rapid-fire policies here

00:25:06.880 just to get your take on them.

00:25:08.360 You mentioned the carbon tax.

00:25:09.860 Your opposition, unequivocal, no carbon tax whatsoever,

00:25:13.000 or would you replace it with something else?

00:25:14.640 So I don't think that taxing Sally 10 bucks at the gas pump 1.00

00:25:20.780 or inflating everything else potentially

00:25:25.160 by imposing a broad carbon tax is going to do anything.

00:25:30.720 Sorry, to move global temperatures.

00:25:32.780 I'm very passionate about Canadian energy

00:25:36.260 and Canadian natural resources.

00:25:37.880 I think that they're a blessing,

00:25:39.320 and I think that we should not hesitate

00:25:41.800 to develop energy locally,

00:25:44.080 and not just oil and gas,

00:25:46.900 but also mining and precious metals

00:25:49.520 that are very, very scarce now around the world.

00:25:52.420 I would like Canada to become completely energy independent,

00:25:56.280 and I would like us to develop our energy.

00:26:00.740 We'll do it better and cleaner

00:26:02.540 than probably anywhere else in the world.

00:26:04.620 It's going to be better for the planet,

00:26:05.900 and it's certainly going to be better for our bottom line.

00:26:09.160 Firearms.

00:26:09.720 This week, the Liberal government extended the amnesty period

00:26:13.240 for the guns they banned in May of 2020 to October 2023,

00:26:18.200 so there still is a fair bit more time

00:26:20.060 before the government will try to confiscate

00:26:23.080 or, as they say, buy back guns they banned.

00:26:25.440 And what's your view on the restrictions

00:26:28.000 that Justin Trudeau has put in place on firearms,

00:26:30.580 and where would you go with them?

00:26:33.100 So this is not an issue that is my forte, to be honest.

00:26:37.680 I'm a 416 resident.

00:26:40.200 I live in the city of Toronto.

00:26:42.240 We should be somewhat more mindful of the fact

00:26:45.680 that a lot of urban centres do not understand

00:26:50.000 or may not share some of the elements

00:26:54.400 of the Conservative Party's views on weapons.

00:26:56.960 Nonetheless, I do not think that we should force anyone

00:27:00.980 to give up anything that they lawfully owned.

00:27:04.340 I don't think that we should be curtailing

00:27:06.280 the rights of lawful gun owners.

00:27:08.460 Instead, we should be thinking about how to encourage law enforcement

00:27:15.380 and communities to deal with rising crime in urban centres.

00:27:21.280 And those are generally not...

00:27:23.020 Those type of scenarios are not led to by lawful gun owners,

00:27:29.400 but by unlawful guns.

00:27:31.220 So I think what I would like to do here

00:27:33.760 when it comes to gun policy is to try to bridge the gap.

00:27:37.580 I think we have to be speaking more to urban conservatives.

00:27:43.060 It's the only way we're going to form government.

00:27:46.040 And so perhaps conversation and education is in order on both sides.

00:27:52.040 The media bailout, $600 million,

00:27:54.660 the federal government earmarked for press,

00:27:56.620 and also CBC funding, I think $1.3 billion a year.

00:27:59.980 What are those line items looking like in your budget as Prime Minister?

00:28:04.040 You asked me about living in the Soviet Union,

00:28:07.240 and I remember a newspaper called Pravda.

00:28:10.600 The translation of Pravda means truth.

00:28:13.260 And I remember it was hanging on all walls and on street kiosks, etc.

00:28:19.060 And I don't believe that government should be subsidizing a news outlet

00:28:23.780 because that's an apparent conflict of interest.

00:28:25.980 It negates fair and objective and independent journalism.

00:28:30.240 So while I appreciate the CBC's contribution to arts and culture,

00:28:34.840 I would get CBC out of the news business.

00:28:38.240 I will not find any news on the CBC.

00:28:40.900 With respect to media bailout generally, I think I was clear.

00:28:45.700 I think it undermines the principle of independent media.

00:28:49.060 But I'm also very concerned about advertising money.

00:28:52.360 We're seeing on some outlets, the major outlets,

00:28:56.960 the ones that are in fact very, very proud of not taking any of the bailout money,

00:29:01.660 are actually very big beneficiaries of some of government policy by way of ad space.

00:29:09.420 And it went from COVID and safety advertising to vaccination advertising.

00:29:16.040 And now it's basic government advertising.

00:29:18.800 And it's not just on TV.

00:29:22.020 It's on the radio.

00:29:22.980 It's on the internet.

00:29:23.940 It's on highways.

00:29:24.740 I live in a condominium in North Toronto.

00:29:27.360 When I go down the elevator, I see an ad paid by the taxpayers about how Ontario's economy is growing stronger.

00:29:35.760 Doug Ford is paying, using your money and my money,

00:29:39.040 for an ad in my elevator to tell me that under him, the economy is getting stronger.

00:29:46.600 I think we need to review the way that government pays for ads.

00:29:51.740 And that is something that, in fact, the progressive conservatives in Ontario were very much against.

00:29:56.960 And it's very regretful that they broke their promise.

00:30:00.980 Just in closing here, Roman, you talked earlier about cancel culture and your own experience in Ontario politics.

00:30:08.160 In the last federal conservative leadership race, there was a notable disqualification.

00:30:13.840 Jim Carahalios, the federal conservatives, also kicked Derek Sloan out of caucus,

00:30:18.400 who had been a leadership candidate not long later.

00:30:20.960 You've been outspoken.

00:30:22.320 Are you confident that you will be approved?

00:30:24.380 Or have you had any indication from the party so far about where you might stand in the application process?

00:30:32.700 I will not.

00:30:34.140 I'm not prepared to discuss anything that relates to this process specifically with respect to myself.

00:30:42.300 I'm hopeful that everything will be okay.

00:30:45.320 I think that it's important to recognize that the Conservative Party of Canada has now come around to my position.

00:30:50.860 It took them almost two years to come around and say, look, lockdowns were probably not a good idea,

00:30:58.860 even though we haven't heard too much of that.

00:31:00.620 But certainly passports and mandates are not a good idea.

00:31:03.000 So I think the party must recognize that it should embrace a conservative that was willing at a risk to themselves to speak about this early.

00:31:11.000 And also, I think, back to the point that I've articulated in the beginning of this interview,

00:31:17.140 it's important that we recognize the differences in our opinion.

00:31:22.900 And essentially what I've done is articulated a sensible, moderate, and polite opinion.

00:31:29.300 And I think that that is something that we should encourage in our candidates.

00:31:33.060 Sensible, moderate, and polite.

00:31:36.060 Not normally the words we hear from politicians, but I think there's something to that.

00:31:39.900 Roman Babber, Independent Ontario MPP and Conservative Leadership Candidate.

00:31:44.220 Thank you so much for your time.

00:31:45.960 Thank you, Andrew.

00:31:47.100 That was Roman Babber, former PC MPP, now an Independent MPP in Ontario.

00:31:51.980 I always forget Ontario is the only province with MPPs.

00:31:54.780 So if you're elsewhere, he's an MLA or an MNA, or I always forget what the Newfoundland one is.

00:32:01.200 I want to say it's MHA, MHA in Newfoundland.

00:32:03.980 I think so.

00:32:04.820 We'll edit it out if I'm wrong.

00:32:06.540 In any case, hope you all enjoyed that.

00:32:08.940 We will, as I mentioned, talk to all the Conservative Leadership Candidates who will come on the program.

00:32:13.100 So I do hope you pay attention to this series.

00:32:15.420 We'll talk to you in a couple days' time with more of Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:32:19.100 Thank you, God bless, and good day to you all.

00:32:21.320 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:32:23.680 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

00:32:31.200 Tell the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - March 18, 2022

Roman Baber says his 'democratic conservatism' will grow the Conservative base

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