Juno News - June 01, 2022


Rupa Subramanya joins True North!


Episode Stats

Length

32 minutes

Words per Minute

192.67844

Word Count

6,323

Sentence Count

297

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

12


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 True North continues to knock it out of the park. We have doubled in size over the past year. We now
00:00:04.580 reach over 10 million Canadians each and every month across our platforms. Our stories are being
00:00:09.520 picked up by our competitors in the legacy media. We're having a real influence on politics and
00:00:14.820 public policy in this country and we're helping to shape the political culture in Canada. Today
00:00:20.260 I'm very excited to share some big news with our audience. I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The
00:00:24.620 Candice Malcolm Show.
00:00:34.220 Everyone, thank you so much for tuning in. So today I am delighted to announce that True
00:00:42.300 North has hired one of the brightest journalists in the country, a rising star in conservative
00:00:47.600 political circles. I'm proud to announce that Rupa Subramania will be joining True North as
00:00:52.300 a columnist and a podcast host and Rupa joins me on the show today. So Rupa, thank you so
00:00:57.980 much for being here.
00:00:58.980 Thank you so much, Candice. I'm truly excited to be a part of the True North Centre team
00:01:05.140 and I'm really excited about my show and I have lots of good things coming up, lots of
00:01:11.580 great topics and ideas and guests and I'm really looking forward to tackling the important issues
00:01:17.640 of the day that matter to us as Canadians and hopefully issues that nobody in the mainstream
00:01:25.320 media wants to touch and or they give short shrift to these ideas and I hope to take them
00:01:29.880 on head on and have meaningful discussions with my guests and so I'm really, really excited
00:01:36.960 about this.
00:01:38.320 Well, we feel very lucky to have you and it's been great to connect with you over the past
00:01:42.000 few months. For people who aren't completely familiar with you, Rupa is also a columnist
00:01:47.160 over at the National Post. She's written for the Wall Street Journal, Foreign Policy Magazine.
00:01:51.360 She's a distinguished fellow with the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada. Rupa, you live in Ottawa
00:01:56.120 and I think a lot of Canadians came to know you and came to see your journalism firsthand during
00:02:01.740 the trucker convoy because you were doing something that your colleagues in the media failed to do,
00:02:06.280 which was just go out and talk to the truckers and get to know them and try to understand what
00:02:10.260 was motivating them and what they were there for and what it was all about. And it seemed
00:02:15.120 really like basic, basic journalism, but no one else was willing to do it. Instead, they were all too
00:02:19.900 happy to just sort of parrot Justin Trudeau's dismissals of the truckers and his criticisms of
00:02:27.020 them. Some of the most interesting things that we heard was that, oh, these truckers are a bunch of
00:02:32.660 racist white supremacists. Here you are as an Indian woman and you said that you felt safe
00:02:37.960 and comfortable and that people were nice and kind and welcoming. You didn't see any of those
00:02:41.960 kind of attitudes that the media were trying to tell us about the truckers. So you really did
00:02:45.840 outstanding work. I'm wondering if you could just sort of tell us about why you approached the
00:02:52.260 trucker convoy so differently than everybody else in the media or so many other people in the media in
00:02:57.460 Ottawa. Well, several different things. So I approached it as a resident of the city, as someone
00:03:03.240 who was just very curious about what was happening in my neighborhood. And I had heard about the
00:03:10.020 convoy before it even arrived. I'd heard about, you know, I read about some of the key players and
00:03:16.160 that and what Justin Trudeau said about the unvaccinated and the protesters. So I was aware of
00:03:22.080 all of this, the narrative that was already in place before the protesters even showed up. And I was
00:03:28.060 just really intellectually curious to see what was happening in Ottawa. So I walked around and I
00:03:33.220 spent about eight or nine hours that day in the bitter cold. And I saw something extraordinary. I
00:03:41.940 saw people, you know, it was people of different backgrounds. It was like Canada Day in the winter.
00:03:49.180 It felt like a winter carnival. And I, you know, I saw some diversity in the crowds as well. And it was
00:03:59.100 just a very, very, you know, it was a joy. It was, it was joyous. This, it was, it was almost cathartic
00:04:07.540 for a lot of people to be there. People who, you know, we'd been under, we'd been under a lockdown for
00:04:12.340 two years, under restrictions for two years where, you know, many of us couldn't even see our loved
00:04:17.280 ones. And suddenly there was this explosion of emotions right here in the nation's capital. And
00:04:24.680 that too, in some very, very cold conditions. And that to me indicated that, you know, people were
00:04:32.380 there because they were really committed to the cause. They were really dedicated to it. And they
00:04:36.540 really believed in it. And they were willing to spend hours on end to make their voices heard.
00:04:41.220 And by, by the end of that, I, you know, I, I came home and I, you know, I, and I, and I tweeted
00:04:48.180 saying, you know, I think the elites in this country, the political establishment, the media
00:04:52.580 establishment have really misjudged what is happening here. This is much bigger than anything anyone
00:04:57.440 expected. It was bigger than anything I had expected. So for me, it was an eye-opening experience.
00:05:02.900 And, and also what was interesting was that, that first weekend, I, I got a lot of messages
00:05:09.620 from some, some of my journalist friends who work for very well-known publications, including
00:05:15.000 the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times. And they were, they, they
00:05:19.680 were trying to understand what was happening in Ottawa. They asked me, why is there no actual
00:05:25.900 on the ground reportage of what is happening in Ottawa? It seems pretty big, but all we keep
00:05:30.480 hearing is that there are a bunch of white supremacists and they're being caricatured, where
00:05:34.340 are the stories? Where's the actual on the ground reportage? And, and I was, you know, really
00:05:40.480 struck by that question because everything that we had that was being reported on, if you can
00:05:46.400 even call it that, was just someone's opinion, you know, or just, just, just talking from just
00:05:54.120 directly from the, uh, Justin Trudeau's talking points. And, but yet there were all of these
00:06:00.360 people with very interesting stories that come, uh, they, they, they driven long hours to get
00:06:05.760 to the city. Um, they were there in the cold, they were, uh, and keep in mind that, um, Ottawa
00:06:12.080 was still under a semi-lockdown at that point. And by the end of the first weekend, the Rideau
00:06:17.360 Center closed, there were no washroom facilities anywhere. Uh, you know, people literally were just
00:06:23.020 out there all day. Uh, you couldn't eat anywhere. You couldn't grab, uh, you know, you, the only
00:06:28.780 two things that were open were the McDonald's and the Tim Hortons. So there was really nothing
00:06:32.780 you could do except be there to make your voice heard. And, um, and so, you know, it just kept
00:06:39.260 getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And I felt that the best way to tackle, so I started tweeting,
00:06:45.260 the best way to tackle this corrosive narrative. And I really thought it was a very corrosive narrative
00:06:50.140 that was, that was, that was, uh, being pushed by, uh, you know, some, some important journalists
00:06:55.580 and large sections of the media. And of course the, the political establishment as well is that I
00:07:01.500 thought I would tackle it in a humorous way. I'd be, you know, that I wanted to be sarcastic about it
00:07:06.140 because there was no other way of taking it on. Um, you know, I couldn't be serious about it. I just
00:07:11.020 had to be, I had to, you know, mock the situation and that's exactly what I did. So here I am a person of
00:07:17.900 color. I'm walking around, you know, and I'm walking in the badlands of Ottawa. That's, that's how I,
00:07:23.180 um, described Ottawa to my, to my, uh, you know, while tweeting and that here I was being mobbed by
00:07:29.500 people wanting to give me a hug and they were handing out food and I felt very threatened. And,
00:07:35.180 uh, and I was just being, you know, ironic about the whole situation. And, uh, and at first I think
00:07:40.380 people were a little confused because sarcasm doesn't always translate well on, on social media.
00:07:45.580 Uh, but then people started to get an idea of where I was coming from. You know, I said, wow,
00:07:49.420 you know, this is, you know, I'm, I'm really, um, stunned by this, but you know, you know,
00:07:53.980 you know, first people from Montreal are coming to Ottawa to party. And that's exactly what was
00:07:58.220 happening. Um, uh, Ottawa became, um, this destination to, to party, but at the same time, you, you, you,
00:08:05.020 you know, you were also protesting. You were also exercising your right to civil disobedience. And, uh,
00:08:10.300 uh, um, and, and so all of those things were happening. So I, my tweets got a lot of traction.
00:08:16.060 I think it resonated with a lot of people because, you know, I was, I was saying something different,
00:08:20.540 something that was different. It felt like I was in an alternate reality from, from what was being
00:08:25.100 reported on by large sections of the media. I, uh, um, you know, what I was experiencing there was
00:08:30.780 completely at odds with, at odds with what was being reported. And, and that was the reaction of many of
00:08:36.780 the protesters themselves, you know, they, you know, they, they tune into, um, your, you know,
00:08:43.180 whatever it was, the CBC, the CTV, uh, CTV and, uh, and, and they would, they would, they would find
00:08:49.020 that the reporting of it was, uh, at complete odds with what they'd experienced, especially this,
00:08:53.580 this was especially a strong feeling among people of color that I had interviewed, you know,
00:08:58.140 they couldn't believe that they were, um, somehow, you know, that, that they were being, uh, that it was,
00:09:03.740 that, that they were being told that they were part of some white supremacist movement when,
00:09:07.740 when, you know, they experienced something totally different. Um, so I felt that,
00:09:11.980 I felt at that point and I've been, I, you know, I've tracked media propaganda for a very long time
00:09:16.620 in various countries. I knew exactly what was going on here. And, um, I knew, I knew that this,
00:09:22.460 you know, what was happening here was rather insidious and I wanted to, um, you know,
00:09:28.060 put a, put a correction to it. And, uh, and that's exactly, I think what I did by, by tweeting about
00:09:35.740 it. And then I was asked to write about it and, uh, and I'm glad I did because I think that was an
00:09:40.140 important contribution to what was being said out there and, uh, um, and, and it challenged that,
00:09:46.460 that, that, uh, that narrative, uh, I think in a substantial way. And I was happy to play my, my,
00:09:53.020 my role in that. Well, good for you. And absolutely that, that piece that you wrote for
00:09:57.260 Barry Weiss and her sub stack, uh, was absolutely must read, uh, essential reading for anyone who
00:10:03.660 wanted to really understand the trucker convoy. And I've said this on the show before, but the,
00:10:07.820 the photographs that accompanied your piece were just absolutely stunning and beautiful.
00:10:11.900 And I think that the whole thing was incredibly well done. Uh, well, Rupa, I, I, I wonder because
00:10:17.580 to me, the, I, I'm similar, I've been monitoring the, uh, Canadian media, uh, for a very long time.
00:10:24.460 And I've had criticisms about them for a very long time. It seems to me that every time there's new,
00:10:29.660 new story or a new narrative that comes up, they sort of ratchet it up more and more. And the trucker
00:10:35.420 convoy was like peak Laurentian elite biased media. Like they had no interest in telling the story. They
00:10:41.900 only had an interest in pushing the narrative that they, that they previously decided on. And, and,
00:10:46.940 and to so many people, to your point that that was a turning point for them because they saw
00:10:51.020 on social media or with their own eyes in Ottawa, what was happening. And then you juxtapose that with
00:10:56.140 the very, very inflammatory things that prime minister was saying, which was being backed up
00:11:01.500 by a very, sorry, uh, loyal, the servitude press. And, and, and it was really quite something.
00:11:08.620 I want to ask you though, you know, you, you, you sort of work, you sort of have a foot in both,
00:11:13.420 um, uh, in both ponds with independent media now and, uh, legacy media and you're a freelance
00:11:19.660 journalist and you've written for all of these incredibly prestigious publications.
00:11:23.660 Um, so what, what, what are your thoughts on the current, uh, legacy media? And what do you think
00:11:28.700 about the sort of new upstart, um, environment where there's a whole bunch of new sort of either
00:11:33.900 independent people doing subsects like Barry Weiss or, uh, independent media organizations that,
00:11:38.860 that stay removed from government, uh, like true north? I think it's a very exciting time to be an
00:11:43.980 independent voice, uh, because I think the public is starting to see, um, the, the, uh, you know,
00:11:51.420 they're starting to see what, what's happening. Uh, and I have these conversations with a range of
00:11:56.140 different people, um, um, who were, uh, you know, they would, they wouldn't, um, they would only believe
00:12:02.620 what was said on the CBC or, or, or, or, or on a mainstream, uh, uh, outlet. And that's starting
00:12:09.820 to change. They're starting to see what is going on here because some of, some, some of what is being
00:12:14.540 said is at complete odds with what they themselves are experiencing, just like with the protesters at
00:12:19.820 the Freedom Convoy. And even if you were not here protesting, um, a lot of people sought through
00:12:26.540 the propaganda and, and started questioning it. Um, and I'm, I'm seeing, so I, I think this is a very
00:12:32.460 exciting time for independent voices to make their mark. Um, uh, and, um, and as far as the legacy
00:12:38.860 media is concerned, as far as the established media is concerned, I think, um, I think they're gonna have
00:12:44.140 to, uh, start taking note. Uh, you know, my piece for Barry Wise probably resonated more than anything
00:12:51.340 that was written in, uh, in the Canadian media, in Canadian media. I, I, I think it was, um, um,
00:12:58.700 there's a space for that, for that, for that kind of reportage. There's clearly a market for that kind
00:13:03.820 of reportage. Uh, uh, there's a market for alternate opinions. I think, um, and like I mentioned, the
00:13:09.820 public is just very, uh, starting to see through this and, uh, and are craving for something that is
00:13:15.020 different. Um, and, uh, and I think, uh, and I think the mainstream media justifiably feels very
00:13:21.980 threatened by what is happening in the independent media space. Uh, and, and just as well, you know,
00:13:26.860 because I think competition is good. Uh, I think, uh, plurality of, uh, different voices is better than
00:13:32.940 just one, uh, hegemonic, um, uh, narrative that is in place thanks to, um, you know, state-funded, uh,
00:13:40.460 media organizations. I think it's very important, um, what, uh, independent media is doing, and I'm so
00:13:46.300 grateful for, uh, the True North Center, uh, and, uh, media outlets, um, like the True North Center for what
00:13:53.980 they're doing, because if not for them, uh, you, you, you just be fed on this constant, you, uh,
00:13:59.260 you know, it's constant propaganda and, uh, it's, it's not entirely a hundred percent propaganda.
00:14:04.540 Of course, there's some genuine bonafide reporting from the mainstream media establishment. It's just
00:14:09.740 that when it, I've, I've noticed that when it comes to polarizing issues, whether it is reporting on the
00:14:14.460 COVID-19 pandemic or is, or it's the protests, um, there seems to be an agenda at play and, uh, and it's a
00:14:22.460 clear agenda, uh, at work that wants to project a certain kind of narrative. And, uh, and that is
00:14:29.980 where it gets very problematic for me. Um, I, and the media is a large space. Let me put, let me make
00:14:35.340 that very clear. I write for the national post. They're incredibly supportive, uh, of my opinions.
00:14:39.900 They're, um, you know, I, I, you know, I have a great platform with them. And so it's not, so, you know,
00:14:44.540 when I, when I say the media, you know, we, we have to be very careful because there are, there are
00:14:50.380 players in the, in the mainstream media establishment like the national post, for example, that do, um,
00:14:56.140 good work. And I'm not just saying that because I write for them, but I genuinely feel that they're
00:15:00.620 the only ones who, uh, give me a voice, uh, give me a platform. And, uh, and that's important to
00:15:06.220 recognize as well. Uh, but like I said, competition is good. Uh, we really need to have a contestation
00:15:12.940 of ideas. Um, and this is where the independent media outlets play, um, uh, uh, a very important
00:15:19.900 role. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, the national post hosts some of the most fantastic thinkers
00:15:25.420 in Canada, people like yourself, Rex Murphy, Barbara Kay, Conrad Black. Uh, but then they're
00:15:30.460 also part of the post media chain, which often picks up, uh, Canadian press news stories where you
00:15:35.420 get the sort of same regurgitated, uh, insider sort of perspective, which, which is, is, you know,
00:15:41.580 it's unfortunate and there's obviously bigger issues at play, uh, with the legacy media.
00:15:46.140 One of the things I've noticed recently is that some of the better sort of reporting
00:15:51.420 and opinion pieces on Canada and specifically on Justin Trudeau come from abroad. Um, you know,
00:15:57.580 we had during the tracker convoy, the New York times, uh, reporting on things that, that several
00:16:02.460 times legacy media journalists, people like Rosemary Barton at the CBC, uh, would, were openly
00:16:07.340 criticizing and telling the New York times to take this down because it's, it's wrong. Well,
00:16:10.700 it wasn't wrong. It just didn't fit with the Trudeau narrative. Uh, you know, the idea that
00:16:14.620 they were breaking into vehicles and arresting people at gunpoint, that was sort of like an
00:16:17.980 inconvenient story that, that, um, the Canadian media didn't want. Uh, one of the other things
00:16:22.860 I've noticed is a sort of disconnect between, so in Canada, if, if you say that Justin Trudeau is
00:16:28.140 acting like a dictator or that Canada is going down a tyrannical or authoritarian path, uh, the media
00:16:34.380 sort of like clutch their pearls and say like, that's reckless and, and, uh, you know, hyperbolic, how dare you?
00:16:40.220 Uh, more and more, we're hearing that opinion, um, being taken from people around the world,
00:16:46.220 outside observers, uh, people who are critical of, of Trudeau. And, uh, I saw that you shared a
00:16:52.380 piece by a Rav Aurora, who's a great young writer from Vancouver. He wrote a piece in the New York
00:16:56.620 Post, uh, titled once a liberal democracy, Canada is now an authoritarian state. So it's a great piece.
00:17:02.940 I encourage reader, uh, viewers to go out and read it. Uh, Rav argues that Canadian government has taken
00:17:08.060 away, has taken its power to extreme levels. He tells a story about how he almost wasn't allowed
00:17:11.740 back into Canada, um, despite, um, you know, being a Canadian. And, um, he, he, he also makes a point
00:17:18.460 saying that, you know, his family left India when he was a child and he feels that, you know, Canada
00:17:23.180 is not necessarily more free than India. Um, I'm wondering, uh, if you, if you can give us your,
00:17:28.380 your thoughts on, on Rav's piece and, and sort of generally that direction that not only is Canada
00:17:34.220 heading towards this direction, but you don't see these kinds of, uh, opinion pieces much in Canada,
00:17:38.300 increasingly you are seeing them around the world though. Uh, exactly. I, uh, very much enjoyed
00:17:43.900 Rav's piece and I shared it. Um, um, you know, I shared a very, uh, important quote from the tweet
00:17:49.420 where he says that, you know, the, the country that my parents left behind India, um, you know,
00:17:54.860 seems a lot less authoritarian than Canada at this point because he's unvaccinated and he can't get on a
00:18:00.380 plane and, uh, and he's essentially a prisoner in his own country. I think that's, um, I, you know,
00:18:05.820 I'm very, um, uh, sympathetic to that point of view. Um, I, I, I, you know, I know a lot of unvaccinated
00:18:12.300 people and they're really struggling. It's, um, in Canada is an outlier in this regard. Um, uh,
00:18:19.500 India country that I'm also very familiar with having spent a lot of time there has no vaccine mandates,
00:18:25.580 uh, in place. In fact, the Supreme court of India said that vaccine mandates, um,
00:18:30.300 were, uh, were unconstitutional and, uh, in a, in a recent ruling, um, and, uh, that, um, you know,
00:18:37.260 you can't, uh, and, and, uh, and, uh, emphasized on the importance of bodily autonomy. Uh, it was an
00:18:43.820 extraordinary ruling and, um, and it makes, made me question why, uh, you know, what is happening with
00:18:49.820 our courts here? You know, why aren't we seeing this kind of, um, uh, you know, why aren't we seeing
00:18:54.860 this sort of thing happening here? Uh, and, and, and, and so a lot of people like Rav,
00:19:00.300 you know, feel that the country that they grew up in, and I, I will say this as someone who spent,
00:19:06.700 um, 25 years, uh, you know, I came here as a teenager and I've been, you know, and I've been here
00:19:11.980 for, uh, for, uh, for a long time. And I can tell you that I don't recognize this country anymore. I
00:19:17.660 don't, I don't, I don't, um, uh, recognize what, you know, I don't understand what is happening here.
00:19:23.340 I don't know why Canada is an outlier here. Of course there are problems with India. I wouldn't
00:19:28.220 say that, uh, you know, India is necessarily freer than Canada. I think that would be a little bit of
00:19:34.460 an exaggeration if one were to say that, but one can certainly point to the fact that, um, Canada
00:19:40.140 is heading in the wrong direction. It is an outlier in the advanced West. It is out, it's an outlier among
00:19:45.740 major countries in insisting on, um, vaccine mandates on the two dose, uh, vaccine mandate,
00:19:52.220 which makes absolutely no sense. You have, um, uh, research, uh, upon research coming up from various
00:19:58.700 credible, uh, health agencies from across the world, whether it's the CDC, whether it's the UK,
00:20:03.820 or it's the UK health authority, uh, or UK health agency that show that the two dose vaccine, uh, regimen
00:20:10.540 is actually not very effective at this point where if you've done two doses,
00:20:15.740 um, you're, you're, you're really the vaccine effectiveness has essentially gone down to zero.
00:20:21.260 So, but, but the diff, but the thing is I can get on a plane, uh, and I can apply for a federal
00:20:27.660 government job, uh, but the unvaccinated can't. And that's the, and that's what's, um, very cruel
00:20:33.740 about the situation. Um, and, and, and also we've, we've completely ignored the fact that, um, a lot of
00:20:41.020 unvaccinated people probably have, um, a great deal of natural immunity at this point.
00:20:45.420 At this point, everyone's more or less been infected. And so you have, uh, immunity from
00:20:51.020 vaccination and you also have immunity from having recovered from COVID-19. Um, yet, yet the government
00:20:57.980 insists on these vaccine mandates, which absolutely make no sense. So I, I appreciate where he's coming
00:21:03.580 from, where Rav Aurora is coming from, and, um, I sympathize with it and it is an absolutely frustrating
00:21:09.580 situation to be in. Um, and, um, and, um, you know, I, uh, I, and he faced a lot of pushback,
00:21:16.460 um, on the piece. Um, in fact, I think a lot of people thought that I was writing the piece.
00:21:21.420 Um, your, your, your tweet sort of went viral, you know, because, because you're from India too,
00:21:27.660 so kind of seemed like maybe you would, but, but yeah. And the reactions were, you know,
00:21:33.580 borderline xenophobic outright, you know, racist in, in a sense, uh, they, they thought that I had
00:21:40.620 written the piece or they thought that he had written or he, or they correctly assumed he wrote
00:21:45.340 the piece and they told us to go back to India. If we felt, uh, that things were so bad here,
00:21:51.340 why are you here? Go back to India. Um, Rav's response was, well, I'd like to, but I can't get
00:21:56.140 on a plane. Um, uh, I think that was his response. And, uh, and honestly, that, that kind of response
00:22:02.540 is extremely xenophobic and problematic. And it comes from, um, the so-called liberal left, you know,
00:22:10.300 and, uh, because they're, they're supposed to be better than this, but, you know, it doesn't take much
00:22:15.900 to, uh, for, for these kinds of sentiments to, uh, to, to, to come out as anytime I criticize Canada,
00:22:22.460 I'm told that I, you know, I should just go back. Well, why should I, I chose this country, you know,
00:22:26.780 I chose to be here and I choose to remain here and I will, uh, fight for what is right. And, uh, and,
00:22:33.740 and that's really the best response you can give to such people, but it was quite extraordinary,
00:22:38.460 the pushback because I think, I think, um, Rav, uh, touched a nerve, um, um, and in a way that my
00:22:47.340 piece, my piece, piece did something similar. It touched a nerve. Um, um, and I, and I, and I think,
00:22:53.500 you know, I, I, I will quote this and I'm paraphrasing here, but the New York Times correspondent who,
00:22:58.460 um, covered the protests, uh, for the New York Times, uh, was I think interviewed by Canada land
00:23:04.220 shortly after. And, uh, and her parting shot was that, you know, I don't think Canadians are used
00:23:09.580 to seeing themselves in this manner. And I think that's, that's, that's what's going on here. That,
00:23:15.420 that explains the, um, the pushback that, uh, at least the pushback that she was getting. And I
00:23:20.700 think that really does sum up the pushback, um, describes the pushback that Rav and I, uh, have been
00:23:26.460 getting. Right. Well, I mean, what happened to the whole, a Canadian is a Canadian is Canadian. In Rav's case,
00:23:31.260 he moved to Canada when he was four years old. So it's not like he, you know, it's not like he grew
00:23:35.500 up in India and, and, and has a place to go back there. It's like his family made this choice. And
00:23:39.820 interestingly for him, you know, he's a, he's a young guy. I think he's in his early twenties.
00:23:44.540 And the reason that he didn't get vaccinated is because he got COVID and he had natural immunity.
00:23:48.860 So you're right. He probably has stronger immunity and a better chance of being okay than, than, than most
00:23:54.220 other people. Yeah. And that is the science. That is the science. There is actual science there. And we
00:24:00.060 are completely ignoring it. And that is just very perplexing. Like if I can go to Germany tomorrow
00:24:06.460 and I can show, uh, proof of, uh, um, uh, I can either show proof of vaccination or proof of a negative
00:24:12.060 COVID test or proof of recovery. A lot of European countries accept proof of recovery. Uh, what makes
00:24:18.140 us so special? Why are we so different here? Uh, it's not just Canada, but it's also the U S. Um, and,
00:24:24.060 you know, then it leads to all of these questions, you know, then it leads us into this rabbit hole of,
00:24:28.780 uh, conspiracy theories, you know, what is going on here is the pharmaceutical companies. We bought
00:24:33.820 all of these vaccines. Maybe they're just, they just want to push this on us because they bought
00:24:37.980 all of these vaccines. I'd rather not go there. You know, I'd rather like take on the policy for what
00:24:42.700 it is and criticize it. But, um, but it is quite extraordinary that we, uh, are an outlier, uh, in,
00:24:48.940 in, in much of the world. And, uh, and we're just, it's, it's, uh, uh, needlessly punishing,
00:24:54.540 uh, five or 6 million Canadians for, uh, making a medical decision.
00:25:00.620 Well, absolutely. And, and, and the bizarre decision this week for the federal government,
00:25:04.460 the liberal party and the NDP to extend these travel restrictions sort of indefinitely. It's like,
00:25:10.540 you know, we can't, we can't even at this point admit that most of these measures are no longer
00:25:16.140 necessary. Some of them were never necessary in the first place. It's like they're, they're completely
00:25:20.700 sort of stuck to that. I, I want to ask you this, Rupa, you recently wrote on some of the various
00:25:25.100 polls about Canadians, particularly new Canadians and new immigrants, how they're losing confidence
00:25:31.100 in Canada and the direction. And I think this is what you're talking about. Touched the nerve with a
00:25:34.620 lot of liberals is that, uh, well, the Leger poll commissioned by the Institute for Canadian
00:25:39.500 Citizenship found that 30% of new Canadians aged 18 to 34 said they were more likely to move to another
00:25:45.660 country within the next two years. You know, Canada is a country that sort of prides itself
00:25:50.140 on, uh, being very welcoming to immigrants. Uh, all of the political parties are very pro-immigration
00:25:56.380 and Canada is sort of held up as this country where pluralism works and immigration has been
00:26:01.500 successful. Um, and yet, you know, under this direction of all people, Justin Trudeau, the person
00:26:06.780 who sort of champions, um, diversity as our strength, he says it all the time. Um, and yet under his leadership,
00:26:12.700 especially young immigrants, which are the ones that really Canada wants to recruit because
00:26:17.580 they're the ones that help our economy and help us grow and help balance out the aging population
00:26:21.660 and the demographic crunch and all that kind of stuff. Increasingly, they don't want to come
00:26:25.180 to Canada. They want to live here. I think this creates a huge problem, uh, for Trudeau. Why don't
00:26:30.140 you tell us a little bit about your research and your reporting on this area?
00:26:33.100 Well, um, so I think, um, if I, if I remember correctly, uh, that poll, uh, talked about how a
00:26:41.180 lot of people were losing trust in the government. Uh, there was an increasing, a loss of trust in the
00:26:47.740 way government works and that there was a lack of democratic accountability, um, uh, um, that, that,
00:26:54.140 the, that people were generally feeling. Um, and that is very, um, interesting, uh, because, um,
00:27:01.820 you know, normally new immigrants, um, are not necessarily looking at these issues. Um, I would
00:27:07.500 say they're, they're, they're focused on the bread and butter issues. They're looking at the, you know,
00:27:13.340 they're looking at employment options. They want to send their kids to school. Uh, they, they want to
00:27:19.340 earn a living. Uh, so the fact that they're focused on these other issues is quite extraordinary. Um,
00:27:26.140 and I think it is a general sense of malaise that everybody's been feeling, especially over the last
00:27:31.260 couple of years. Um, and, uh, and, and, uh, new immigrants are not, um, um, immune from that. Uh,
00:27:38.780 in fact, I would say that new immigrants have also, um, uh, probably, uh, been at the receiving end of
00:27:44.700 some of these, um, harsh restrictions, uh, whether it's the mandates. I, I, I, I've met a few new immigrants
00:27:51.980 who, uh, don't want to be vaccinated, uh, and, and they have, they, you know, so it affects them
00:27:57.020 directly. Um, and, and just this, like, as I said, there's a general sense of malaise, you know, where
00:28:02.140 are we going here? You know, uh, and, and there's a lot of other stuff going on here as well. New
00:28:07.900 immigrants tend to be generally very conservative. I think new immigrants probably, and I can't speak
00:28:12.940 for all new immigrants, but generally conservative new immigrants are not necessarily interested in
00:28:17.980 wokeism. This is not something that they identify with. Um, if you tell, um, a conservative new
00:28:24.300 immigrant, uh, that, uh, a woman is not really a woman or that, uh, there is no such thing as a woman,
00:28:31.420 they're going to be shocked at these kinds of views. And, uh, and I, I, and, and so there's a
00:28:35.900 cultural element to this. I conjecture, um, I, I don't have, um, data to back this up, but I do think
00:28:42.140 that there's a strong cultural component to the way, uh, new immigrants feel about being in Canada,
00:28:48.060 because Canada in a sense has completely, um, you know, uh, bought into this woke narrative more than
00:28:55.420 any other country, maybe except for the United States. Um, but, uh, certainly, you know, European
00:29:01.980 countries, you know, there's a great deal of, um, you know, there's a contestation of these, of these,
00:29:07.340 of these narratives, uh, much more than, uh, what we're seeing here. And, uh, so there's a strong
00:29:13.340 cultural component, um, economic component. Sure. Uh, new immigrants are always struggling to find
00:29:19.020 jobs. Um, the, the fact that they come here, uh, highly skilled and can't, uh, translate those
00:29:25.340 skills into meaningful employment here, that continues to be an issue. I know the Ford government
00:29:30.780 is working on changing that. Uh, but you know, there's still a lot of PhDs and doctors driving taxis.
00:29:37.340 Um, so there is still an economic component. It's still, it's, it still matters. Uh, but I think
00:29:43.180 increasingly there's also a cultural component to these, um, to these, uh, to these, uh, to, uh,
00:29:49.020 to this general feeling of, uh, malaise and that, you know, they're not happy being here.
00:29:54.140 Absolutely. Well, another news story this week is that the true government is decriminalizing
00:29:58.780 drugs in British Columbia. I know that's one issue that, uh, for, for my, uh, my husband's family is from
00:30:04.620 Iran and that's something that they just really can't wrap their head around, uh, just from a
00:30:08.860 human dignity perspective. Why is Canada allowing people to use heroin and these other hard drugs?
00:30:13.900 Uh, such, there's such a huge disconnect. Um, and, and it is really interesting to see, uh, Trudeau,
00:30:19.740 uh, I, I, I think he's really jumping the shark with so many of these issues where he's just so
00:30:23.980 incredibly out of touch with the people he reports to, to stand for. Well, Rupa, I can't,
00:30:29.580 I can't tell you how excited we are to have you as part of the team. It's such an honor,
00:30:33.100 and I'm really looking forward to your, uh, your, your contributions with us. Uh, tell us a little
00:30:38.620 bit about your podcast, uh, what viewers can expect and what kind of issues you're going to be diving
00:30:43.580 into. Well, um, no, it's an honor, Candice, and I'm so thrilled that I'm doing this for the
00:30:49.500 True North center. And I'm really excited about what, what, what is going to come in the coming
00:30:54.700 weeks and months. Um, and, uh, so first of all, I'm going to be, um, it's going to be, uh, about 20
00:31:01.100 minutes or so, and we'll, uh, have, uh, um, uh, you know, I'll have a guest on, uh, and I'll obviously
00:31:07.420 pick the topics. And these are topics and ideas that I care about. And so it, it, it, it's, it'll be
00:31:13.500 similar to the kinds of things that I, uh, write about, uh, but the difference being that we'll, we'll,
00:31:18.540 we'll have more in-depth, uh, conversations, uh, and, and, and also talk about things that I
00:31:23.500 couldn't go into my column. Um, so it'll be everything from all of the issues that we care
00:31:28.300 about and the issues that don't necessarily make it into mainstream media conversations.
00:31:33.340 I think that is very important for me. I do want to pay, you know, give some attention to these,
00:31:39.580 to these, uh, to these issues. And, um, and, and, and, and that's basically where, where I'm coming
00:31:45.980 from and hopefully, um, it'll stimulate, um, an interesting, uh, conversation around these topics,
00:31:53.180 uh, as we go on. Uh, and I, my, uh, viewers, my listeners don't necessarily have to agree with me.
00:32:00.140 Uh, I think it's, it, it would be good, uh, if, if, if they actually disagreed with me, I think it
00:32:05.420 would be, it would spark a discussion around these things, uh, around these ideas. But, um, so I, you know,
00:32:11.260 I, I want them to be able to, uh, uh, get something out of these, uh, discussions. I want it to be
00:32:16.940 intellectual. I want it to be stimulating. Some of the topics may be provocative, but I'm, I'm,
00:32:21.820 I'm not shy about being provocative. So, um, so I think, I think, uh, it, it, it, it hopes to be
00:32:27.900 very promising and I'm really looking forward to it. Well, that's great. I can't wait. Your, your first
00:32:33.020 episode is going to air next week. So everyone, uh, stay tuned for that. Uh, thank you so much, uh, for
00:32:37.980 joining the show and thank you for joining us and welcome aboard to True North. Thank you so much,
00:32:42.700 Candice. It's a pleasure. Okay. That's Rupa Subramania now with True North. I'm Candice
00:32:47.260 Malcolm and this is the Candice Malcolm Show.