Juno News - June 01, 2022


Rupa Subramanya joins True North!

Topics
Mentioned
Trudeau’s handgun ban won’t make Canadians safer Trudeau’s Wokest Week (Ft. Andrew Lawton)

Episode Stats


Length

32 minutes

Words per minute

192.68

Word count

6,323

Sentence count

311

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

12

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Rupa Subramania joins The Candice Malcolm Show to discuss her new role as a columnist at the National Post and a podcast host at True North Centre. She's also a distinguished fellow with the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada and a regular contributor to the Wall Street Journal and Foreign Policy Magazine.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 True North continues to knock it out of the park. We have doubled in size over the past year. We now
00:00:04.580 reach over 10 million Canadians each and every month across our platforms. Our stories are being
00:00:09.520 picked up by our competitors in the legacy media. We're having a real influence on politics and
00:00:14.820 public policy in this country and we're helping to shape the political culture in Canada. Today
00:00:20.260 I'm very excited to share some big news with our audience. I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The
00:00:24.620 Candice Malcolm Show.
00:00:34.220 Everyone, thank you so much for tuning in. So today I am delighted to announce that True
00:00:42.300 North has hired one of the brightest journalists in the country, a rising star in conservative
00:00:47.600 political circles. I'm proud to announce that Rupa Subramania will be joining True North as
00:00:52.300 a columnist and a podcast host and Rupa joins me on the show today. So Rupa, thank you so
00:00:57.980 much for being here.
00:00:58.980 Thank you so much, Candice. I'm truly excited to be a part of the True North Centre team
00:01:05.140 and I'm really excited about my show and I have lots of good things coming up, lots of
00:01:11.580 great topics and ideas and guests and I'm really looking forward to tackling the important issues
00:01:17.640 of the day that matter to us as Canadians and hopefully issues that nobody in the mainstream
00:01:25.320 media wants to touch and or they give short shrift to these ideas and I hope to take them
00:01:29.880 on head on and have meaningful discussions with my guests and so I'm really, really excited
00:01:36.960 about this.
00:01:38.320 Well, we feel very lucky to have you and it's been great to connect with you over the past
00:01:42.000 few months. For people who aren't completely familiar with you, Rupa is also a columnist
00:01:47.160 over at the National Post. She's written for the Wall Street Journal, Foreign Policy Magazine.
00:01:51.360 She's a distinguished fellow with the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada. Rupa, you live in Ottawa
00:01:56.120 and I think a lot of Canadians came to know you and came to see your journalism firsthand during
00:02:01.740 the trucker convoy because you were doing something that your colleagues in the media failed to do,
00:02:06.280 which was just go out and talk to the truckers and get to know them and try to understand what
00:02:10.260 was motivating them and what they were there for and what it was all about. And it seemed
00:02:15.120 really like basic, basic journalism, but no one else was willing to do it. Instead, they were all too
00:02:19.900 happy to just sort of parrot Justin Trudeau's dismissals of the truckers and his criticisms of
00:02:27.020 them. Some of the most interesting things that we heard was that, oh, these truckers are a bunch of
00:02:32.660 racist white supremacists. Here you are as an Indian woman and you said that you felt safe 0.96
00:02:37.960 and comfortable and that people were nice and kind and welcoming. You didn't see any of those
00:02:41.960 kind of attitudes that the media were trying to tell us about the truckers. So you really did
00:02:45.840 outstanding work. I'm wondering if you could just sort of tell us about why you approached the
00:02:52.260 trucker convoy so differently than everybody else in the media or so many other people in the media in
00:02:57.460 Ottawa. Well, several different things. So I approached it as a resident of the city, as someone
00:03:03.240 who was just very curious about what was happening in my neighborhood. And I had heard about the
00:03:10.020 convoy before it even arrived. I'd heard about, you know, I read about some of the key players and
00:03:16.160 that and what Justin Trudeau said about the unvaccinated and the protesters. So I was aware of
00:03:22.080 all of this, the narrative that was already in place before the protesters even showed up. And I was
00:03:28.060 just really intellectually curious to see what was happening in Ottawa. So I walked around and I
00:03:33.220 spent about eight or nine hours that day in the bitter cold. And I saw something extraordinary. I
00:03:41.940 saw people, you know, it was people of different backgrounds. It was like Canada Day in the winter.
00:03:49.180 It felt like a winter carnival. And I, you know, I saw some diversity in the crowds as well. And it was
00:03:59.100 just a very, very, you know, it was a joy. It was, it was joyous. This, it was, it was almost cathartic
00:04:07.540 for a lot of people to be there. People who, you know, we'd been under, we'd been under a lockdown for
00:04:12.340 two years, under restrictions for two years where, you know, many of us couldn't even see our loved
00:04:17.280 ones. And suddenly there was this explosion of emotions right here in the nation's capital. And
00:04:24.680 that too, in some very, very cold conditions. And that to me indicated that, you know, people were
00:04:32.380 there because they were really committed to the cause. They were really dedicated to it. And they
00:04:36.540 really believed in it. And they were willing to spend hours on end to make their voices heard.
00:04:41.220 And by, by the end of that, I, you know, I, I came home and I, you know, I, and I, and I tweeted
00:04:48.180 saying, you know, I think the elites in this country, the political establishment, the media
00:04:52.580 establishment have really misjudged what is happening here. This is much bigger than anything anyone
00:04:57.440 expected. It was bigger than anything I had expected. So for me, it was an eye-opening experience.
00:05:02.900 And, and also what was interesting was that, that first weekend, I, I got a lot of messages
00:05:09.620 from some, some of my journalist friends who work for very well-known publications, including
00:05:15.000 the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times. And they were, they, they
00:05:19.680 were trying to understand what was happening in Ottawa. They asked me, why is there no actual
00:05:25.900 on the ground reportage of what is happening in Ottawa? It seems pretty big, but all we keep
00:05:30.480 hearing is that there are a bunch of white supremacists and they're being caricatured, where
00:05:34.340 are the stories? Where's the actual on the ground reportage? And, and I was, you know, really
00:05:40.480 struck by that question because everything that we had that was being reported on, if you can
00:05:46.400 even call it that, was just someone's opinion, you know, or just, just, just talking from just
00:05:54.120 directly from the, uh, Justin Trudeau's talking points. And, but yet there were all of these
00:06:00.360 people with very interesting stories that come, uh, they, they, they driven long hours to get
00:06:05.760 to the city. Um, they were there in the cold, they were, uh, and keep in mind that, um, Ottawa
00:06:12.080 was still under a semi-lockdown at that point. And by the end of the first weekend, the Rideau
00:06:17.360 Center closed, there were no washroom facilities anywhere. Uh, you know, people literally were just
00:06:23.020 out there all day. Uh, you couldn't eat anywhere. You couldn't grab, uh, you know, you, the only
00:06:28.780 two things that were open were the McDonald's and the Tim Hortons. So there was really nothing
00:06:32.780 you could do except be there to make your voice heard. And, um, and so, you know, it just kept
00:06:39.260 getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And I felt that the best way to tackle, so I started tweeting,
00:06:45.260 the best way to tackle this corrosive narrative. And I really thought it was a very corrosive narrative
00:06:50.140 that was, that was, that was, uh, being pushed by, uh, you know, some, some important journalists
00:06:55.580 and large sections of the media. And of course the, the political establishment as well is that I
00:07:01.500 thought I would tackle it in a humorous way. I'd be, you know, that I wanted to be sarcastic about it
00:07:06.140 because there was no other way of taking it on. Um, you know, I couldn't be serious about it. I just
00:07:11.020 had to be, I had to, you know, mock the situation and that's exactly what I did. So here I am a person of
00:07:17.900 color. I'm walking around, you know, and I'm walking in the badlands of Ottawa. That's, that's how I,
00:07:23.180 um, described Ottawa to my, to my, uh, you know, while tweeting and that here I was being mobbed by
00:07:29.500 people wanting to give me a hug and they were handing out food and I felt very threatened. And,
00:07:35.180 uh, and I was just being, you know, ironic about the whole situation. And, uh, and at first I think
00:07:40.380 people were a little confused because sarcasm doesn't always translate well on, on social media.
00:07:45.580 Uh, but then people started to get an idea of where I was coming from. You know, I said, wow,
00:07:49.420 you know, this is, you know, I'm, I'm really, um, stunned by this, but you know, you know,
00:07:53.980 you know, first people from Montreal are coming to Ottawa to party. And that's exactly what was
00:07:58.220 happening. Um, uh, Ottawa became, um, this destination to, to party, but at the same time, you, you, you,
00:08:05.020 you know, you were also protesting. You were also exercising your right to civil disobedience. And, uh,
00:08:10.300 uh, um, and, and so all of those things were happening. So I, my tweets got a lot of traction.
00:08:16.060 I think it resonated with a lot of people because, you know, I was, I was saying something different,
00:08:20.540 something that was different. It felt like I was in an alternate reality from, from what was being
00:08:25.100 reported on by large sections of the media. I, uh, um, you know, what I was experiencing there was
00:08:30.780 completely at odds with, at odds with what was being reported. And, and that was the reaction of many of
00:08:36.780 the protesters themselves, you know, they, you know, they, they tune into, um, your, you know,
00:08:43.180 whatever it was, the CBC, the CTV, uh, CTV and, uh, and, and they would, they would, they would find
00:08:49.020 that the reporting of it was, uh, at complete odds with what they'd experienced, especially this,
00:08:53.580 this was especially a strong feeling among people of color that I had interviewed, you know,
00:08:58.140 they couldn't believe that they were, um, somehow, you know, that, that they were being, uh, that it was,
00:09:03.740 that, that they were being told that they were part of some white supremacist movement when,
00:09:07.740 when, you know, they experienced something totally different. Um, so I felt that,
00:09:11.980 I felt at that point and I've been, I, you know, I've tracked media propaganda for a very long time
00:09:16.620 in various countries. I knew exactly what was going on here. And, um, I knew, I knew that this,
00:09:22.460 you know, what was happening here was rather insidious and I wanted to, um, you know,
00:09:28.060 put a, put a correction to it. And, uh, and that's exactly, I think what I did by, by tweeting about
00:09:35.740 it. And then I was asked to write about it and, uh, and I'm glad I did because I think that was an
00:09:40.140 important contribution to what was being said out there and, uh, um, and, and it challenged that,
00:09:46.460 that, that, uh, that narrative, uh, I think in a substantial way. And I was happy to play my, my,
00:09:53.020 my role in that. Well, good for you. And absolutely that, that piece that you wrote for
00:09:57.260 Barry Weiss and her sub stack, uh, was absolutely must read, uh, essential reading for anyone who
00:10:03.660 wanted to really understand the trucker convoy. And I've said this on the show before, but the,
00:10:07.820 the photographs that accompanied your piece were just absolutely stunning and beautiful.
00:10:11.900 And I think that the whole thing was incredibly well done. Uh, well, Rupa, I, I, I wonder because
00:10:17.580 to me, the, I, I'm similar, I've been monitoring the, uh, Canadian media, uh, for a very long time.
00:10:24.460 And I've had criticisms about them for a very long time. It seems to me that every time there's new,
00:10:29.660 new story or a new narrative that comes up, they sort of ratchet it up more and more. And the trucker
00:10:35.420 convoy was like peak Laurentian elite biased media. Like they had no interest in telling the story. They
00:10:41.900 only had an interest in pushing the narrative that they, that they previously decided on. And, and,
00:10:46.940 and to so many people, to your point that that was a turning point for them because they saw
00:10:51.020 on social media or with their own eyes in Ottawa, what was happening. And then you juxtapose that with
00:10:56.140 the very, very inflammatory things that prime minister was saying, which was being backed up
00:11:01.500 by a very, sorry, uh, loyal, the servitude press. And, and, and it was really quite something.
00:11:08.620 I want to ask you though, you know, you, you, you sort of work, you sort of have a foot in both,
00:11:13.420 um, uh, in both ponds with independent media now and, uh, legacy media and you're a freelance
00:11:19.660 journalist and you've written for all of these incredibly prestigious publications.
00:11:23.660 Um, so what, what, what are your thoughts on the current, uh, legacy media? And what do you think
00:11:28.700 about the sort of new upstart, um, environment where there's a whole bunch of new sort of either
00:11:33.900 independent people doing subsects like Barry Weiss or, uh, independent media organizations that,
00:11:38.860 that stay removed from government, uh, like true north? I think it's a very exciting time to be an
00:11:43.980 independent voice, uh, because I think the public is starting to see, um, the, the, uh, you know,
00:11:51.420 they're starting to see what, what's happening. Uh, and I have these conversations with a range of
00:11:56.140 different people, um, um, who were, uh, you know, they would, they wouldn't, um, they would only believe
00:12:02.620 what was said on the CBC or, or, or, or, or on a mainstream, uh, uh, outlet. And that's starting
00:12:09.820 to change. They're starting to see what is going on here because some of, some, some of what is being
00:12:14.540 said is at complete odds with what they themselves are experiencing, just like with the protesters at
00:12:19.820 the Freedom Convoy. And even if you were not here protesting, um, a lot of people sought through
00:12:26.540 the propaganda and, and started questioning it. Um, and I'm, I'm seeing, so I, I think this is a very
00:12:32.460 exciting time for independent voices to make their mark. Um, uh, and, um, and as far as the legacy
00:12:38.860 media is concerned, as far as the established media is concerned, I think, um, I think they're gonna have
00:12:44.140 to, uh, start taking note. Uh, you know, my piece for Barry Wise probably resonated more than anything
00:12:51.340 that was written in, uh, in the Canadian media, in Canadian media. I, I, I think it was, um, um,
00:12:58.700 there's a space for that, for that, for that kind of reportage. There's clearly a market for that kind
00:13:03.820 of reportage. Uh, uh, there's a market for alternate opinions. I think, um, and like I mentioned, the
00:13:09.820 public is just very, uh, starting to see through this and, uh, and are craving for something that is
00:13:15.020 different. Um, and, uh, and I think, uh, and I think the mainstream media justifiably feels very
00:13:21.980 threatened by what is happening in the independent media space. Uh, and, and just as well, you know,
00:13:26.860 because I think competition is good. Uh, I think, uh, plurality of, uh, different voices is better than
00:13:32.940 just one, uh, hegemonic, um, uh, narrative that is in place thanks to, um, you know, state-funded, uh,
00:13:40.460 media organizations. I think it's very important, um, what, uh, independent media is doing, and I'm so
00:13:46.300 grateful for, uh, the True North Center, uh, and, uh, media outlets, um, like the True North Center for what
00:13:53.980 they're doing, because if not for them, uh, you, you, you just be fed on this constant, you, uh,
00:13:59.260 you know, it's constant propaganda and, uh, it's, it's not entirely a hundred percent propaganda.
00:14:04.540 Of course, there's some genuine bonafide reporting from the mainstream media establishment. It's just
00:14:09.740 that when it, I've, I've noticed that when it comes to polarizing issues, whether it is reporting on the
00:14:14.460 COVID-19 pandemic or is, or it's the protests, um, there seems to be an agenda at play and, uh, and it's a
00:14:22.460 clear agenda, uh, at work that wants to project a certain kind of narrative. And, uh, and that is
00:14:29.980 where it gets very problematic for me. Um, I, and the media is a large space. Let me put, let me make
00:14:35.340 that very clear. I write for the national post. They're incredibly supportive, uh, of my opinions.
00:14:39.900 They're, um, you know, I, I, you know, I have a great platform with them. And so it's not, so, you know,
00:14:44.540 when I, when I say the media, you know, we, we have to be very careful because there are, there are
00:14:50.380 players in the, in the mainstream media establishment like the national post, for example, that do, um,
00:14:56.140 good work. And I'm not just saying that because I write for them, but I genuinely feel that they're
00:15:00.620 the only ones who, uh, give me a voice, uh, give me a platform. And, uh, and that's important to
00:15:06.220 recognize as well. Uh, but like I said, competition is good. Uh, we really need to have a contestation
00:15:12.940 of ideas. Um, and this is where the independent media outlets play, um, uh, uh, a very important
00:15:19.900 role. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, the national post hosts some of the most fantastic thinkers
00:15:25.420 in Canada, people like yourself, Rex Murphy, Barbara Kay, Conrad Black. Uh, but then they're
00:15:30.460 also part of the post media chain, which often picks up, uh, Canadian press news stories where you
00:15:35.420 get the sort of same regurgitated, uh, insider sort of perspective, which, which is, is, you know,
00:15:41.580 it's unfortunate and there's obviously bigger issues at play, uh, with the legacy media.
00:15:46.140 One of the things I've noticed recently is that some of the better sort of reporting
00:15:51.420 and opinion pieces on Canada and specifically on Justin Trudeau come from abroad. Um, you know,
00:15:57.580 we had during the tracker convoy, the New York times, uh, reporting on things that, that several
00:16:02.460 times legacy media journalists, people like Rosemary Barton at the CBC, uh, would, were openly
00:16:07.340 criticizing and telling the New York times to take this down because it's, it's wrong. Well,
00:16:10.700 it wasn't wrong. It just didn't fit with the Trudeau narrative. Uh, you know, the idea that
00:16:14.620 they were breaking into vehicles and arresting people at gunpoint, that was sort of like an
00:16:17.980 inconvenient story that, that, um, the Canadian media didn't want. Uh, one of the other things
00:16:22.860 I've noticed is a sort of disconnect between, so in Canada, if, if you say that Justin Trudeau is
00:16:28.140 acting like a dictator or that Canada is going down a tyrannical or authoritarian path, uh, the media
00:16:34.380 sort of like clutch their pearls and say like, that's reckless and, and, uh, you know, hyperbolic, how dare you?
00:16:40.220 Uh, more and more, we're hearing that opinion, um, being taken from people around the world,
00:16:46.220 outside observers, uh, people who are critical of, of Trudeau. And, uh, I saw that you shared a
00:16:52.380 piece by a Rav Aurora, who's a great young writer from Vancouver. He wrote a piece in the New York
00:16:56.620 Post, uh, titled once a liberal democracy, Canada is now an authoritarian state. So it's a great piece.
00:17:02.940 I encourage reader, uh, viewers to go out and read it. Uh, Rav argues that Canadian government has taken
00:17:08.060 away, has taken its power to extreme levels. He tells a story about how he almost wasn't allowed
00:17:11.740 back into Canada, um, despite, um, you know, being a Canadian. And, um, he, he, he also makes a point
00:17:18.460 saying that, you know, his family left India when he was a child and he feels that, you know, Canada
00:17:23.180 is not necessarily more free than India. Um, I'm wondering, uh, if you, if you can give us your,
00:17:28.380 your thoughts on, on Rav's piece and, and sort of generally that direction that not only is Canada
00:17:34.220 heading towards this direction, but you don't see these kinds of, uh, opinion pieces much in Canada,
00:17:38.300 increasingly you are seeing them around the world though. Uh, exactly. I, uh, very much enjoyed
00:17:43.900 Rav's piece and I shared it. Um, um, you know, I shared a very, uh, important quote from the tweet
00:17:49.420 where he says that, you know, the, the country that my parents left behind India, um, you know,
00:17:54.860 seems a lot less authoritarian than Canada at this point because he's unvaccinated and he can't get on a 1.00
00:18:00.380 plane and, uh, and he's essentially a prisoner in his own country. I think that's, um, I, you know,
00:18:05.820 I'm very, um, uh, sympathetic to that point of view. Um, I, I, I, you know, I know a lot of unvaccinated 0.96
00:18:12.300 people and they're really struggling. It's, um, in Canada is an outlier in this regard. Um, uh,
00:18:19.500 India country that I'm also very familiar with having spent a lot of time there has no vaccine mandates,
00:18:25.580 uh, in place. In fact, the Supreme court of India said that vaccine mandates, um,
00:18:30.300 were, uh, were unconstitutional and, uh, in a, in a recent ruling, um, and, uh, that, um, you know,
00:18:37.260 you can't, uh, and, and, uh, and, uh, emphasized on the importance of bodily autonomy. Uh, it was an
00:18:43.820 extraordinary ruling and, um, and it makes, made me question why, uh, you know, what is happening with
00:18:49.820 our courts here? You know, why aren't we seeing this kind of, um, uh, you know, why aren't we seeing
00:18:54.860 this sort of thing happening here? Uh, and, and, and, and so a lot of people like Rav,
00:19:00.300 you know, feel that the country that they grew up in, and I, I will say this as someone who spent,
00:19:06.700 um, 25 years, uh, you know, I came here as a teenager and I've been, you know, and I've been here
00:19:11.980 for, uh, for, uh, for a long time. And I can tell you that I don't recognize this country anymore. I
00:19:17.660 don't, I don't, I don't, um, uh, recognize what, you know, I don't understand what is happening here.
00:19:23.340 I don't know why Canada is an outlier here. Of course there are problems with India. I wouldn't
00:19:28.220 say that, uh, you know, India is necessarily freer than Canada. I think that would be a little bit of 0.74
00:19:34.460 an exaggeration if one were to say that, but one can certainly point to the fact that, um, Canada
00:19:40.140 is heading in the wrong direction. It is an outlier in the advanced West. It is out, it's an outlier among
00:19:45.740 major countries in insisting on, um, vaccine mandates on the two dose, uh, vaccine mandate,
00:19:52.220 which makes absolutely no sense. You have, um, uh, research, uh, upon research coming up from various
00:19:58.700 credible, uh, health agencies from across the world, whether it's the CDC, whether it's the UK,
00:20:03.820 or it's the UK health authority, uh, or UK health agency that show that the two dose vaccine, uh, regimen
00:20:10.540 is actually not very effective at this point where if you've done two doses,
00:20:15.740 um, you're, you're, you're really the vaccine effectiveness has essentially gone down to zero.
00:20:21.260 So, but, but the diff, but the thing is I can get on a plane, uh, and I can apply for a federal
00:20:27.660 government job, uh, but the unvaccinated can't. And that's the, and that's what's, um, very cruel 0.88
00:20:33.740 about the situation. Um, and, and, and also we've, we've completely ignored the fact that, um, a lot of
00:20:41.020 unvaccinated people probably have, um, a great deal of natural immunity at this point.
00:20:45.420 At this point, everyone's more or less been infected. And so you have, uh, immunity from
00:20:51.020 vaccination and you also have immunity from having recovered from COVID-19. Um, yet, yet the government
00:20:57.980 insists on these vaccine mandates, which absolutely make no sense. So I, I appreciate where he's coming
00:21:03.580 from, where Rav Aurora is coming from, and, um, I sympathize with it and it is an absolutely frustrating
00:21:09.580 situation to be in. Um, and, um, and, um, you know, I, uh, I, and he faced a lot of pushback,
00:21:16.460 um, on the piece. Um, in fact, I think a lot of people thought that I was writing the piece.
00:21:21.420 Um, your, your, your tweet sort of went viral, you know, because, because you're from India too,
00:21:27.660 so kind of seemed like maybe you would, but, but yeah. And the reactions were, you know,
00:21:33.580 borderline xenophobic outright, you know, racist in, in a sense, uh, they, they thought that I had
00:21:40.620 written the piece or they thought that he had written or he, or they correctly assumed he wrote
00:21:45.340 the piece and they told us to go back to India. If we felt, uh, that things were so bad here,
00:21:51.340 why are you here? Go back to India. Um, Rav's response was, well, I'd like to, but I can't get
00:21:56.140 on a plane. Um, uh, I think that was his response. And, uh, and honestly, that, that kind of response
00:22:02.540 is extremely xenophobic and problematic. And it comes from, um, the so-called liberal left, you know,
00:22:10.300 and, uh, because they're, they're supposed to be better than this, but, you know, it doesn't take much
00:22:15.900 to, uh, for, for these kinds of sentiments to, uh, to, to, to come out as anytime I criticize Canada,
00:22:22.460 I'm told that I, you know, I should just go back. Well, why should I, I chose this country, you know,
00:22:26.780 I chose to be here and I choose to remain here and I will, uh, fight for what is right. And, uh, and,
00:22:33.740 and that's really the best response you can give to such people, but it was quite extraordinary,
00:22:38.460 the pushback because I think, I think, um, Rav, uh, touched a nerve, um, um, and in a way that my
00:22:47.340 piece, my piece, piece did something similar. It touched a nerve. Um, um, and I, and I, and I think,
00:22:53.500 you know, I, I, I will quote this and I'm paraphrasing here, but the New York Times correspondent who,
00:22:58.460 um, covered the protests, uh, for the New York Times, uh, was I think interviewed by Canada land
00:23:04.220 shortly after. And, uh, and her parting shot was that, you know, I don't think Canadians are used
00:23:09.580 to seeing themselves in this manner. And I think that's, that's, that's what's going on here. That,
00:23:15.420 that explains the, um, the pushback that, uh, at least the pushback that she was getting. And I
00:23:20.700 think that really does sum up the pushback, um, describes the pushback that Rav and I, uh, have been
00:23:26.460 getting. Right. Well, I mean, what happened to the whole, a Canadian is a Canadian is Canadian. In Rav's case, 0.55
00:23:31.260 he moved to Canada when he was four years old. So it's not like he, you know, it's not like he grew
00:23:35.500 up in India and, and, and has a place to go back there. It's like his family made this choice. And
00:23:39.820 interestingly for him, you know, he's a, he's a young guy. I think he's in his early twenties.
00:23:44.540 And the reason that he didn't get vaccinated is because he got COVID and he had natural immunity.
00:23:48.860 So you're right. He probably has stronger immunity and a better chance of being okay than, than, than most
00:23:54.220 other people. Yeah. And that is the science. That is the science. There is actual science there. And we
00:24:00.060 are completely ignoring it. And that is just very perplexing. Like if I can go to Germany tomorrow
00:24:06.460 and I can show, uh, proof of, uh, um, uh, I can either show proof of vaccination or proof of a negative
00:24:12.060 COVID test or proof of recovery. A lot of European countries accept proof of recovery. Uh, what makes
00:24:18.140 us so special? Why are we so different here? Uh, it's not just Canada, but it's also the U S. Um, and,
00:24:24.060 you know, then it leads to all of these questions, you know, then it leads us into this rabbit hole of,
00:24:28.780 uh, conspiracy theories, you know, what is going on here is the pharmaceutical companies. We bought
00:24:33.820 all of these vaccines. Maybe they're just, they just want to push this on us because they bought
00:24:37.980 all of these vaccines. I'd rather not go there. You know, I'd rather like take on the policy for what
00:24:42.700 it is and criticize it. But, um, but it is quite extraordinary that we, uh, are an outlier, uh, in,
00:24:48.940 in, in much of the world. And, uh, and we're just, it's, it's, uh, uh, needlessly punishing,
00:24:54.540 uh, five or 6 million Canadians for, uh, making a medical decision.
00:25:00.620 Well, absolutely. And, and, and the bizarre decision this week for the federal government,
00:25:04.460 the liberal party and the NDP to extend these travel restrictions sort of indefinitely. It's like,
00:25:10.540 you know, we can't, we can't even at this point admit that most of these measures are no longer
00:25:16.140 necessary. Some of them were never necessary in the first place. It's like they're, they're completely
00:25:20.700 sort of stuck to that. I, I want to ask you this, Rupa, you recently wrote on some of the various
00:25:25.100 polls about Canadians, particularly new Canadians and new immigrants, how they're losing confidence
00:25:31.100 in Canada and the direction. And I think this is what you're talking about. Touched the nerve with a
00:25:34.620 lot of liberals is that, uh, well, the Leger poll commissioned by the Institute for Canadian
00:25:39.500 Citizenship found that 30% of new Canadians aged 18 to 34 said they were more likely to move to another
00:25:45.660 country within the next two years. You know, Canada is a country that sort of prides itself
00:25:50.140 on, uh, being very welcoming to immigrants. Uh, all of the political parties are very pro-immigration
00:25:56.380 and Canada is sort of held up as this country where pluralism works and immigration has been
00:26:01.500 successful. Um, and yet, you know, under this direction of all people, Justin Trudeau, the person
00:26:06.780 who sort of champions, um, diversity as our strength, he says it all the time. Um, and yet under his leadership,
00:26:12.700 especially young immigrants, which are the ones that really Canada wants to recruit because 0.98
00:26:17.580 they're the ones that help our economy and help us grow and help balance out the aging population 0.99
00:26:21.660 and the demographic crunch and all that kind of stuff. Increasingly, they don't want to come
00:26:25.180 to Canada. They want to live here. I think this creates a huge problem, uh, for Trudeau. Why don't
00:26:30.140 you tell us a little bit about your research and your reporting on this area?
00:26:33.100 Well, um, so I think, um, if I, if I remember correctly, uh, that poll, uh, talked about how a
00:26:41.180 lot of people were losing trust in the government. Uh, there was an increasing, a loss of trust in the
00:26:47.740 way government works and that there was a lack of democratic accountability, um, uh, um, that, that,
00:26:54.140 the, that people were generally feeling. Um, and that is very, um, interesting, uh, because, um,
00:27:01.820 you know, normally new immigrants, um, are not necessarily looking at these issues. Um, I would
00:27:07.500 say they're, they're, they're focused on the bread and butter issues. They're looking at the, you know,
00:27:13.340 they're looking at employment options. They want to send their kids to school. Uh, they, they want to
00:27:19.340 earn a living. Uh, so the fact that they're focused on these other issues is quite extraordinary. Um,
00:27:26.140 and I think it is a general sense of malaise that everybody's been feeling, especially over the last
00:27:31.260 couple of years. Um, and, uh, and, and, uh, new immigrants are not, um, um, immune from that. Uh, 1.00
00:27:38.780 in fact, I would say that new immigrants have also, um, uh, probably, uh, been at the receiving end of
00:27:44.700 some of these, um, harsh restrictions, uh, whether it's the mandates. I, I, I, I've met a few new immigrants
00:27:51.980 who, uh, don't want to be vaccinated, uh, and, and they have, they, you know, so it affects them
00:27:57.020 directly. Um, and, and just this, like, as I said, there's a general sense of malaise, you know, where
00:28:02.140 are we going here? You know, uh, and, and there's a lot of other stuff going on here as well. New
00:28:07.900 immigrants tend to be generally very conservative. I think new immigrants probably, and I can't speak 1.00
00:28:12.940 for all new immigrants, but generally conservative new immigrants are not necessarily interested in
00:28:17.980 wokeism. This is not something that they identify with. Um, if you tell, um, a conservative new
00:28:24.300 immigrant, uh, that, uh, a woman is not really a woman or that, uh, there is no such thing as a woman, 1.00
00:28:31.420 they're going to be shocked at these kinds of views. And, uh, and I, I, and, and so there's a
00:28:35.900 cultural element to this. I conjecture, um, I, I don't have, um, data to back this up, but I do think
00:28:42.140 that there's a strong cultural component to the way, uh, new immigrants feel about being in Canada,
00:28:48.060 because Canada in a sense has completely, um, you know, uh, bought into this woke narrative more than
00:28:55.420 any other country, maybe except for the United States. Um, but, uh, certainly, you know, European
00:29:01.980 countries, you know, there's a great deal of, um, you know, there's a contestation of these, of these,
00:29:07.340 of these narratives, uh, much more than, uh, what we're seeing here. And, uh, so there's a strong
00:29:13.340 cultural component, um, economic component. Sure. Uh, new immigrants are always struggling to find 1.00
00:29:19.020 jobs. Um, the, the fact that they come here, uh, highly skilled and can't, uh, translate those
00:29:25.340 skills into meaningful employment here, that continues to be an issue. I know the Ford government
00:29:30.780 is working on changing that. Uh, but you know, there's still a lot of PhDs and doctors driving taxis.
00:29:37.340 Um, so there is still an economic component. It's still, it's, it still matters. Uh, but I think
00:29:43.180 increasingly there's also a cultural component to these, um, to these, uh, to these, uh, to, uh,
00:29:49.020 to this general feeling of, uh, malaise and that, you know, they're not happy being here.
00:29:54.140 Absolutely. Well, another news story this week is that the true government is decriminalizing
00:29:58.780 drugs in British Columbia. I know that's one issue that, uh, for, for my, uh, my husband's family is from
00:30:04.620 Iran and that's something that they just really can't wrap their head around, uh, just from a 1.00
00:30:08.860 human dignity perspective. Why is Canada allowing people to use heroin and these other hard drugs?
00:30:13.900 Uh, such, there's such a huge disconnect. Um, and, and it is really interesting to see, uh, Trudeau,
00:30:19.740 uh, I, I, I think he's really jumping the shark with so many of these issues where he's just so
00:30:23.980 incredibly out of touch with the people he reports to, to stand for. Well, Rupa, I can't,
00:30:29.580 I can't tell you how excited we are to have you as part of the team. It's such an honor,
00:30:33.100 and I'm really looking forward to your, uh, your, your contributions with us. Uh, tell us a little
00:30:38.620 bit about your podcast, uh, what viewers can expect and what kind of issues you're going to be diving
00:30:43.580 into. Well, um, no, it's an honor, Candice, and I'm so thrilled that I'm doing this for the
00:30:49.500 True North center. And I'm really excited about what, what, what is going to come in the coming
00:30:54.700 weeks and months. Um, and, uh, so first of all, I'm going to be, um, it's going to be, uh, about 20
00:31:01.100 minutes or so, and we'll, uh, have, uh, um, uh, you know, I'll have a guest on, uh, and I'll obviously
00:31:07.420 pick the topics. And these are topics and ideas that I care about. And so it, it, it, it's, it'll be
00:31:13.500 similar to the kinds of things that I, uh, write about, uh, but the difference being that we'll, we'll,
00:31:18.540 we'll have more in-depth, uh, conversations, uh, and, and, and also talk about things that I
00:31:23.500 couldn't go into my column. Um, so it'll be everything from all of the issues that we care
00:31:28.300 about and the issues that don't necessarily make it into mainstream media conversations.
00:31:33.340 I think that is very important for me. I do want to pay, you know, give some attention to these,
00:31:39.580 to these, uh, to these issues. And, um, and, and, and, and that's basically where, where I'm coming
00:31:45.980 from and hopefully, um, it'll stimulate, um, an interesting, uh, conversation around these topics,
00:31:53.180 uh, as we go on. Uh, and I, my, uh, viewers, my listeners don't necessarily have to agree with me.
00:32:00.140 Uh, I think it's, it, it would be good, uh, if, if, if they actually disagreed with me, I think it
00:32:05.420 would be, it would spark a discussion around these things, uh, around these ideas. But, um, so I, you know,
00:32:11.260 I, I want them to be able to, uh, uh, get something out of these, uh, discussions. I want it to be
00:32:16.940 intellectual. I want it to be stimulating. Some of the topics may be provocative, but I'm, I'm,
00:32:21.820 I'm not shy about being provocative. So, um, so I think, I think, uh, it, it, it, it hopes to be
00:32:27.900 very promising and I'm really looking forward to it. Well, that's great. I can't wait. Your, your first
00:32:33.020 episode is going to air next week. So everyone, uh, stay tuned for that. Uh, thank you so much, uh, for
00:32:37.980 joining the show and thank you for joining us and welcome aboard to True North. Thank you so much,
00:32:42.700 Candice. It's a pleasure. Okay. That's Rupa Subramania now with True North. I'm Candice
00:32:47.260 Malcolm and this is the Candice Malcolm Show.