Juno News - March 05, 2020


Sam and Ryan talk Pipelines, Protests, Indigenous People, Guns and the West

Topics
pipelines clan head leadership schism road infrastructure in Alberta Native land protection genocide echoes tragedy tourism Native people's comfort speaking up
Guests
Ryan Belrose
Mentioned
Elder Trudeau John A. Macdonald Bill C-63 Blackfoot Pound Makers Band Jessica Gordon Sam Eskenazi Idle Memore Uncle Tom Delgamook Tynadigga Mummy Said
Remember when the Left politicized the coronavirus？ We do! Let the cops do their jobs

Episode Stats


Length

50 minutes

Words per minute

203.22

Word count

10,344

Sentence count

1,014

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

45

sentences flagged

Hate speech

46

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I speak with Ryan Belrose, a hereditary chief from the Paddle Prairie Métis settlement in Alberta, Canada. We talk about what it means to be a "Métis" in Canada, the history of the word "mixed-race" and the issues surrounding the pipeline protests.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hi there, I'm Sam Ashkenazi and I'm sitting here with Ryan Belrose, Indigenous rights activist.
00:00:10.000 And thank you for taking the time to speak with us today.
00:00:13.000 No worries. I appreciate it.
00:00:14.000 For sure. So I wanted to discuss with you a couple of things.
00:00:17.000 There's obviously a lot going on in Canada right now with the pipeline protests.
00:00:21.000 And I thought it would be a good idea for people to just hear, you know,
00:00:25.000 sort of the other perspective about what's going on with the protests.
00:00:27.000 What does some of these words mean that they're hearing a lot of news?
00:00:30.000 What is a hereditary chief?
00:00:31.000 You know, what is it like for Stations communities in Canada?
00:00:35.000 You know, just some of the background.
00:00:37.000 But first, why don't you tell us a bit about yourself?
00:00:40.000 Okay, so I am Métis.
00:00:42.000 I grew up on Paddle Prairie Métis settlement, which is in the far north in Alberta.
00:00:48.000 There are several Métis settlements in Alberta, but that's not actually where we're from.
00:00:53.000 Actual Métis people are from the Red River in Manitoba.
00:00:56.000 But we were forced to go west, and when we actually negotiated with the government,
00:01:01.000 the land that they gave us was technically not somebody else's ancestral land,
00:01:06.000 but they gave us that land in order to secure a land base for the Métis people.
00:01:11.000 So what's the difference between Métis and First Nations, Indigenous?
00:01:14.000 What are some of these things, distinctions?
00:01:16.000 Okay, so the easiest way to explain it is actually to use Indian Act terminology.
00:01:21.000 That's not maybe the best way to do it, but it's the easiest way to understand it.
00:01:25.000 So there's status and non-status Indians. 1.00
00:01:27.000 Now, a status Indian is somebody who's covered under treaty.
00:01:30.000 They come from a van that signed treaty with the government,
00:01:34.000 so they are protected under the Indian Act as status Indians.
00:01:38.000 So the way we were always taught was Bill C-31.
00:01:41.000 So a Bill C-31 status Indian is somebody who's fully protected and covered under treaty. 0.77
00:01:46.000 Non-status Indians included anybody that wasn't. 0.84
00:01:49.000 So say you were a native woman and you married a white man.
00:01:54.000 Your kids would not be status.
00:01:56.000 Now, under the Indian Act, right up until I believe the late 60s, the woman would lose her native status as well. 1.00
00:02:02.000 So then even if she divorced the man that she married, she would not be able to be native anymore.
00:02:09.000 So she couldn't live on the reserve.
00:02:10.000 So legally they've taken her identity away.
00:02:11.000 Exactly.
00:02:12.000 You're done.
00:02:13.000 So it would have been all gone.
00:02:14.000 So a lot of times what happened is those women had children and they were divorced and they had nowhere to go.
00:02:19.000 So a lot of times Métis communities would take them in, even though they're not technically Métis.
00:02:25.000 You know, the truth was we understood what it was like to be, you know, have nowhere to go.
00:02:30.000 And after the after the Red River Rebellion, a lot of us lived with our native relatives.
00:02:34.000 So like a lot of Métis people actually moved with the Cree and they lived among, you know, Pound Makers Band, Big Bears Band.
00:02:41.000 Like so that that's why we, you know, we don't generally tend to look at that the same way that non-native people do. 1.00
00:02:47.000 Now, the issue is for Métis people, the government says that anybody who is of mixed blood is Métis.
00:02:55.000 So if you have native blood of any sort mixed with European blood, according to the government, you can claim that you're Métis.
00:03:02.000 Now, the reason we find that to be insulting is because we believe that indigeneity is site specific. 1.00
00:03:09.000 Okay.
00:03:10.000 Every indigenous.
00:03:11.000 What does that mean?
00:03:12.000 So that means that every indigenous person in the world, every indigenous tribe, every indigenous people has ties to a specific place, to a specific land.
00:03:20.000 Now, if we are going to be consistent, that means that as native, as Métis people, we have to have the same standards, the same consistent standards.
00:03:30.000 So we believe that our people come from the Red River.
00:03:34.000 So if somebody says, you know, I'm half Blackfoot and French, that means I'm Métis. 0.71
00:03:42.000 Not necessarily.
00:03:44.000 Now, if you have ties and connections to an ancestral Métis homeland and a family, then we would say absolutely you are.
00:03:52.000 But if you don't, then you would just be Blackfoot. 0.97
00:03:55.000 Like you're part Blackfoot and part European. 0.99
00:03:57.000 There's nothing wrong with that.
00:03:58.000 It just means you're not one of us.
00:04:00.000 Okay.
00:04:01.000 Now, the problem is that the government has pushed this narrative and now you have groups of people who are not Métis in any way, shape or form.
00:04:08.000 They don't have connections to our language.
00:04:10.000 They don't have connections to our ancestral land.
00:04:12.000 They don't have any blood connections, but they claim that they're Métis in order to get hunting rights or fishing rights.
00:04:18.000 And unfortunately, a lot of times they make arguments that are damaging to other native people because they're not really concerned about that.
00:04:26.000 Right.
00:04:27.000 And especially in the last couple of years, there's been this movement that we call the Pretendian movement. 0.81
00:04:33.000 And it's people that claim to be native in order to gain some nebulous benefit that quite often doesn't even really exist.
00:04:41.000 So it's as a native person, as a First Nations person.
00:04:44.000 Yeah, as an Indian, you know.
00:04:46.000 And we're seeing it a lot right now with this pipeline stuff.
00:04:49.000 You know, the truth of the matter is, like, sorry, I don't want to digress too much.
00:04:55.000 The truth of the matter is, there's status and non-status Indians. 1.00
00:04:58.000 So non-status Indians, that used to just include everybody that wasn't a treaty Indian.
00:05:02.000 And Métis was part of that.
00:05:04.000 Now, non-status Indians, they've changed that recently with the Delgamook legal case. 0.95
00:05:12.000 There's also other cases where we took the government to task about trying to tell us who we are.
00:05:19.000 One of the problems is, Sam, that for indigenous people, the only people who should get to determine who is a member of an indigenous people are those people.
00:05:29.000 So, like, you're Jewish.
00:05:31.000 Sure.
00:05:32.000 I would never, ever, ever try to tell you how you should identify Jewish people.
00:05:37.000 Like, what makes a Jewish person Jewish?
00:05:39.000 Yeah.
00:05:40.000 What's the criteria?
00:05:41.000 What's the criteria?
00:05:42.000 How do you determine who's a Jew?
00:05:43.000 The only people who should be determining who's a Jew are Jews, right? 0.99
00:05:47.000 The only people that should be determining who's Métis are Métis people. 0.99
00:05:50.000 The only people that should determine who's Blackfoot should be Blackfoot people. 1.00
00:05:54.000 But the problem is that now with everybody getting involved in these things, everybody feels like they're an expert, especially on social media.
00:06:01.000 And they don't really dig into these things.
00:06:03.000 They don't figure stuff out.
00:06:05.000 So, I started to talk a little bit about pipelines.
00:06:08.000 So, the truth of the matter is Native people are not monolithic in any way, shape, or form.
00:06:15.000 So, in the case of the pipelines, you only see the activist people, right?
00:06:21.000 So, you see the people that are loud and are pushing their point of view.
00:06:26.000 So, that means with Native people, nine times out of ten, you'll see very environmentally, you know, like they act like the environment's the only thing that matters, those kinds of people. 1.00
00:06:36.000 Where in reality, in Indian country, it's a lot more diverse.
00:06:40.000 So, you do have people that support the pipelines.
00:06:42.000 You have people that work and they have jobs and they've worked in the oil field and forestry and all those different industries.
00:06:50.000 And you also have some experience.
00:06:51.000 You're speaking of a personal experience.
00:06:52.000 Yeah.
00:06:53.000 So, my own family, right?
00:06:54.000 Like my dad ran an oil field services company.
00:06:57.000 He transitioned more into doing cleanups and stuff like that.
00:07:00.000 But the truth of the matter is like we worked in pipelines.
00:07:03.000 We worked in the lease building, you know, forestry.
00:07:06.000 We planted forests.
00:07:08.000 That's what we did.
00:07:09.000 So, you know, like it's not as cut and dry as people think.
00:07:14.000 And what's really, really sad is that it's become so divisive because like if somebody like me steps up and says, you know, I'm not going to condemn my uncle for working in the oil field because that's what he does to feed his family, right?
00:07:28.000 People will say stuff to me like, well, you're a government agent or you're an Uncle Tom.
00:07:33.000 And I'm like, no, I'm literally just stating the truth.
00:07:36.000 I mean, I moved to the city.
00:07:38.000 I sold my car because I felt strongly enough that I could use public transportation.
00:07:42.000 You know, there's other ways that I could lower my carbon footprint.
00:07:45.000 But I'm not going to judge somebody else if they're not willing to do the same thing. 0.51
00:07:49.000 I mean, it would be hypocritical.
00:07:51.000 I mean, I still had to fly and come to Toronto.
00:07:53.000 You know, I didn't come here in a canoe.
00:07:56.000 You know, so this is why this is such a divisive subject.
00:08:01.000 I mean, I have family that are on the other side of the pipeline thing where they call it, you know, the black snake.
00:08:07.000 You know, but a lot of these people sometimes they don't even really know what's going on.
00:08:11.000 Like we have people right now that are weighing in on the pipeline that didn't know that it's a natural gas pipeline.
00:08:17.000 They thought it was crude oil.
00:08:19.000 I think there's a perception that it sounds to the oil sands and people like to call it the tar sands.
00:08:23.000 Yeah.
00:08:24.000 I know we were actually looking up at home.
00:08:26.000 We were actually looking up that liquid white natural gas has to be at minus 216 degrees Celsius to stay as liquid.
00:08:32.000 And so if there's a leak, it's not, you know, it's a bit different than just a horsepower.
00:08:36.000 Exactly.
00:08:37.000 So, I mean, and look, me personally, like my personal politics, people bring this up a lot.
00:08:43.000 So I might as well just be open with everybody.
00:08:45.000 I was heavily involved and I don't know more.
00:08:48.000 I still strongly believe in a lot of the things that that organization or that movement started.
00:08:53.000 It's not really an organization.
00:08:54.000 It's a movement.
00:08:55.000 What it really believed in, right?
00:08:57.000 I mean, the two of the women that founded it are people that I profoundly respect because they were looking ahead.
00:09:03.000 And they didn't just make it about the environment.
00:09:05.000 Like Jessica Gordon, she was very clear that this is about Native rights.
00:09:09.000 This is about everything that we think is important.
00:09:12.000 Native sovereignty.
00:09:13.000 It's about us participating in the government.
00:09:15.000 It's about us being part of Canada, like a productive part of Canada that's treated like equals rather than the way we're treated right now.
00:09:23.000 Now, the issue is that we're not treated that way and that it's not an equal relationship.
00:09:32.000 And here's my, I'll tell you my personal thing with the whole pipeline stuff.
00:09:36.000 It started out with some people that were very upset and felt like they didn't have a voice, which is understandable.
00:09:43.000 What happened though was that it transitioned from that into becoming this basically monolithic nonsense about the climate, right?
00:09:53.000 So it went from being Native people saying, hey, you didn't even listen to us.
00:09:56.000 You know, like we have some concerns and you didn't consult and you didn't listen to, well, we don't care, no pipeline, no pipeline, right?
00:10:05.000 That's a very different argument if you think about it.
00:10:07.000 So, yeah, it's it.
00:10:09.000 And then, okay, you asked me a little bit about this hereditary chief stuff.
00:10:13.000 Yeah, so yeah, who are these hereditary chiefs?
00:10:14.000 You said people are not listening to the complaints.
00:10:16.000 That's one of the people, you know, the groups that Canadians are probably familiar with.
00:10:19.000 Who are these hereditary chiefs?
00:10:20.000 What does that even mean?
00:10:21.000 The easiest way to explain it is to explain most chiefs and councils are, like a long time ago I came up with the term Indian Act chiefs, right?
00:10:30.000 Because they weren't the Indian chiefs. 0.92
00:10:32.000 Because everyone would say, oh, it's an Indian chief.
00:10:34.000 And I would say, no, no, no, they're an Indian Act chief.
00:10:37.000 Because you have to remember that in traditional Native societies, and not all of them, like in various nations, various customs,
00:10:45.000 but for the most part it's a truism to say Native leaders led.
00:10:50.000 They didn't rule, okay?
00:10:52.000 Now we're used to looking at things to a very European, like a very colonialist kind of lens where leaders rule.
00:10:59.000 The leader tells you what to do when you do it.
00:11:02.000 That's a very European method of leadership, right?
00:11:05.000 Sure.
00:11:06.000 With kings, monarchs, you know?
00:11:07.000 Okay.
00:11:08.000 So that's how they do it.
00:11:09.000 Someone with the boss.
00:11:10.000 They're in charge.
00:11:11.000 Yes.
00:11:12.000 Whoever's in charge tells you what to do when you do it.
00:11:14.000 Where the Native method of leadership was always much more organic.
00:11:18.000 It was much more the leaders led, but they didn't rule.
00:11:23.000 So if a leader wasn't doing a good job, the leader would be good, right?
00:11:28.000 So it's a very different paradigm.
00:11:31.000 Now, so we're trying to look at this now through two paradigms, right?
00:11:37.000 The Native view is that in most traditional Native societies, the chief didn't just rule
00:11:42.000 and tell everybody what to do, but the chief would be in charge of doing certain things,
00:11:46.000 right?
00:11:47.000 So most of the time, chiefs would be in charge of anything external, anything to do with
00:11:51.000 other tribes, you know, war, negotiations, hunting, anything to do outside the village,
00:11:58.000 which the chief looked after it.
00:11:59.000 Then in most societies, they had matriarchs or clan heads, and those were the people that 0.99
00:12:05.000 looked after internal things, you know, determining who's going to get married to who, making sure
00:12:10.000 that on a day-to-day basis that the nation ran Cuba easily, right?
00:12:14.000 And calmly.
00:12:15.000 Sure.
00:12:16.000 So, like, afford fairs, internal fairs.
00:12:18.000 It's kind of like that, yeah.
00:12:19.000 If you're going to, like, break it down into a kind of how we see the world.
00:12:23.000 Now, here's the thing.
00:12:25.000 This particular nation, they have clan heads.
00:12:28.000 No, what's the way in the nation?
00:12:29.000 What's the way?
00:12:30.000 What's the way?
00:12:31.000 Sorry.
00:12:32.000 Yeah.
00:12:33.000 So they have clan heads.
00:12:34.000 Now, these clan heads, somehow this got turned into people claiming that they're hereditary
00:12:39.000 chiefs.
00:12:40.000 There's some dispute about that, how it started.
00:12:44.000 I mean, I've been told by people in Wet'suwet'en that it was because of one particular interview
00:12:48.000 where the person was trying to explain how clan heads work, and they said, it's kind
00:12:53.000 of like a chief, right?
00:12:54.000 Sure.
00:12:55.000 So their analogy kind of gave birth to this.
00:12:57.000 Yes.
00:12:58.000 This whole hereditary chief thing.
00:12:59.000 But the truth of the matter is, very few Native nations had hereditary leaders.
00:13:03.000 Because how do you have a hereditary leader when most of our leadership was meritocracy?
00:13:07.000 It was based on, could you do the job?
00:13:09.000 Did you do the job?
00:13:10.000 Well, if you did, you were God.
00:13:11.000 Sure.
00:13:12.000 Right?
00:13:13.000 Which doesn't lend itself towards, oh, I was chief, so my kid will be chief.
00:13:16.000 Pretty ethical to it.
00:13:18.000 Yeah.
00:13:19.000 So when we're talking about clan heads, so these clans, in many cases they were matriarchal,
00:13:25.000 by the way.
00:13:26.000 They were the women of the tribe that were the clan heads. 0.98
00:13:30.000 But these clans, they're separate little groups within the nation.
00:13:34.000 Okay.
00:13:35.000 Now, what people don't know about Wet'suwet'en is that several of the clan heads, or what they're
00:13:39.000 calling in the media hereditary chiefs, were actually pro pipeline.
00:13:43.000 And several weren't.
00:13:45.000 So, now what happens?
00:13:46.000 Because you have the Indian Act, which says that you're governed by your chief and council,
00:13:50.000 that are elected by the people.
00:13:52.000 So, the government is now forcing anyone to, this is who we're going to listen to.
00:13:56.000 This is who you're listening to.
00:13:57.000 Yeah.
00:13:58.000 The government shows who they're going to listen to, because the government signs the checks.
00:14:01.000 This is, so when I say the Indian Act chief, I agree that you mean that.
00:14:05.000 Yeah.
00:14:06.000 Yeah.
00:14:07.000 The chief is not the chief of the Indians.
00:14:09.000 He's not the, he doesn't work for the people.
00:14:11.000 So, he's the same.
00:14:12.000 He's pretty much, you know, the government signs the checks.
00:14:15.000 So, it would be like me saying, hey, I'm autonomous, and I lead these people.
00:14:18.000 And then you say, okay, cool.
00:14:20.000 But, you know, if you don't do what we say, I just won't pay you.
00:14:23.000 And if you're the guy writing the checks, well then, who do I work for?
00:14:27.000 You know, I work for the guy that signs the checks.
00:14:30.000 So, meanwhile, these clan heads, who are more of a traditional leadership model, but they're
00:14:35.000 not actually involved in governance.
00:14:37.000 So, they wouldn't be somebody that would negotiate with the government.
00:14:40.000 Mm-hmm.
00:14:41.000 They're the ones that are saying, hey, you know what, there's enough of us here, we think,
00:14:44.000 that are against this, that we should speak up.
00:14:46.000 But then there's a large group that are pro-pipelines.
00:14:49.000 So, now you, even within this tribe, you have this schism.
00:14:52.000 Sure.
00:14:53.000 Now, this whole thing is becoming super divisive, because nobody can just disagree anymore.
00:14:58.000 Mm-hmm.
00:14:59.000 So, it's no longer, you know what, you think that we should have a pipeline.
00:15:03.000 I don't think we should have a pipeline.
00:15:05.000 Okay, well, you give me your reasons, and I'll give you mine, and, you know, maybe we'll
00:15:08.000 come to an accommodation, maybe we won't.
00:15:10.000 Now, it's become, you're pro-pipeline, you're evil.
00:15:14.000 Mm-hmm.
00:15:15.000 Everything else that you say must be evil.
00:15:17.000 You're a government agent, you know, like, lateral violence, you know, now you're attacking
00:15:21.000 me because I'm native. 0.90
00:15:23.000 Like, it's turned into these ridiculous arguments that really have nothing to do with the original
00:15:28.000 problem, which is native sovereignty.
00:15:31.000 Right.
00:15:32.000 So, now you say that the, the government has pretty much imposed this rubric of who is
00:15:36.000 native, who is not.
00:15:37.000 Yeah.
00:15:38.000 And there's been a lot of reports in the media about people who are no, absolutely no connection
00:15:43.000 to the, to the West Wet n people, but are now suddenly being held up as representatives,
00:15:48.000 or, or some of the other protests, the real protests.
00:15:50.000 Do you know, is this something that is, is common?
00:15:52.000 Yeah.
00:15:53.000 Okay.
00:15:54.000 So, like, I, I, it's a, this is a very, how do I say this nicely?
00:15:59.000 This is a, this is a dangerous area.
00:16:02.000 Sure.
00:16:03.000 Because you saw it with almost every major native rights movement, uh, within weeks it
00:16:09.000 gets co-opted.
00:16:10.000 Mm-hmm.
00:16:11.000 So, like with, with Idle No More at the first little bit, it was the four ladies that started
00:16:15.000 it up.
00:16:16.000 They were, they were in the public eye.
00:16:17.000 They were the ones speaking.
00:16:19.000 Within a month we had, you know, like people like Teresa Spence.
00:16:22.000 Mm-hmm.
00:16:23.000 Suddenly she's telling people, I'm, I'm having a hunger strike on behalf of Idle No More.
00:16:26.000 Mm-hmm.
00:16:27.000 And the truth was, she had nothing to do with us.
00:16:29.000 Yeah.
00:16:30.000 She, she called us and said, I'm going to use your name during my hunger strike.
00:16:33.000 And some of us were like, no, we didn't, you know, we don't want chiefs involved.
00:16:37.000 Yeah.
00:16:38.000 Because it was supposed to be a grassroots movement of the people.
00:16:40.000 Mm-hmm.
00:16:41.000 But, you know, we, we, we obviously weren't the ones that came out on top of that argument.
00:16:45.000 So what you end up with is you end up with these people that sometimes are not, not only are
00:16:50.000 they not native, but they don't have native's best interests at heart in any way, shape,
00:16:55.000 or form.
00:16:56.000 So right now in Wet'suwet'en, there are people in Wet'suwet'en, and I'm probably going to
00:16:59.000 take flack for even saying this, but you can do the research.
00:17:02.000 There, there's a group called Tides Foundation.
00:17:04.000 Mm-hmm.
00:17:05.000 And they are, I don't want to say radical, but I will say they're a fairly extreme environmental
00:17:12.000 group that has involved themselves in several different native movements.
00:17:16.000 Yeah.
00:17:17.000 And when they do, they slowly kind of change the messaging from native sovereignty and
00:17:21.000 what's good for native people into environments at all costs.
00:17:25.000 Right?
00:17:26.000 So they don't care whether natives are starving or not. 0.70
00:17:29.000 It means nothing to them as long as we don't damage the environment.
00:17:32.000 So isn't that, on one hand, a colonialist kind of imposition again, trying to force native
00:17:39.000 people that the environment, that's your number one thing.
00:17:41.000 That's the only thing that you guys can ever talk about?
00:17:43.000 Oh, yeah.
00:17:44.000 Like I, so, I actually wrote an article a long time ago about this where I said, look,
00:17:48.000 they're colonizing the struggle against colonization.
00:17:51.000 Right?
00:17:52.000 Ironic.
00:17:53.000 Yeah.
00:17:54.000 Like I made a, you'll get a kick out of this as a quick little aside because it speaks
00:17:57.000 to that point.
00:17:58.000 When I was with Idle Memore, I created a bunch of different Facebook pages.
00:18:02.000 And it was, Facebook was fairly new, social media was new.
00:18:05.000 So I, but I knew this would be a good way to motivate people and gather people.
00:18:08.000 So I created a Facebook group.
00:18:10.000 And as the creator of the Facebook group, this is, I'm the guy that created the group.
00:18:15.000 I got banned from the group because a white liberal wrote a post about GMO potatoes and
00:18:21.000 McDonald's and why this is such a horrible thing.
00:18:24.000 And no Indians should eat at McDonald's because they use GMO potatoes. 1.00
00:18:28.000 So all I wrote was, I don't know if you know this, but most Indians can't afford to eat 1.00
00:18:33.000 at McDonald's.
00:18:34.000 Like, and you know what?
00:18:35.000 GMO potatoes to us is not a concern.
00:18:37.000 Like if you're, if you're going to tell me I can get cheaper potatoes to feed my family.
00:18:41.000 Sure.
00:18:42.000 Yeah.
00:18:43.000 You know, like if I can't afford a regular potato, you're damn right.
00:18:45.000 I'm going to buy the cheaper one.
00:18:46.000 Guy who shops at Whole Foods.
00:18:47.000 Yeah.
00:18:48.000 He's now telling you, and I was thinking Whole Foods is a great place, but guy who shops
00:18:52.000 at Whole Foods is now telling people who are, who might be stuck on a reserve with no water,
00:18:57.000 let alone, you know, fresh, fresh fruit.
00:19:00.000 He's telling you, you can't, sorry, you can't eat potatoes.
00:19:03.000 Exactly. 0.97
00:19:04.000 You get how ridiculous this is. 0.98
00:19:05.000 A lot of people don't understand how, why that's so ridiculous. 0.93
00:19:08.000 And then they banned me. 0.57
00:19:10.000 You have banned me.
00:19:11.000 The administrator of the page, who knew that I'm the person that created the page.
00:19:15.000 Said, I can't believe that you're pro-GMO foods.
00:19:19.000 And I said, on what planet does that come off as pro-GMO foods?
00:19:23.000 All I said was, if they have a cheaper potato and I can't afford a regular potato, I'm going
00:19:29.000 to buy the cheaper potato.
00:19:30.000 Yeah, so you're going to starve to eat some GMO potato.
00:19:33.000 That's my, if those are my choices, you know.
00:19:36.000 And it just speaks to how colonized this whole struggle has become now.
00:19:39.000 Because like you just said, some dude that shops at Whole Foods is lecturing me about
00:19:43.000 not even being able to buy a cheap GMO potato, you know.
00:19:47.000 And this is exactly what we're dealing with.
00:19:49.000 And now you have people from the Rockefeller Foundation and their own Wet'suwet'en. 0.66
00:19:52.000 And they're telling Indians, oh yeah, you guys got to fight this pipeline at all costs.
00:19:58.000 And I mean, you have a few Native people out there, some of them who have never probably
00:20:02.000 had a job.
00:20:03.000 And like, I don't want to buy into that Uncle Tom kind of, but I am going to say this.
00:20:08.000 I grew up in a Métis settlement.
00:20:10.000 I've seen the difference between Native people who work and Native people who struggle on
00:20:15.000 a day-to-day basis, but they fight and struggle so they can feed their families.
00:20:19.000 And I've seen it.
00:20:20.000 I have my own family, right?
00:20:22.000 And then I've also seen Natives who give up and who decide, you know what, I'll live 1.00
00:20:28.000 on, like okay, so I'll use some Native terminology, some of these people will recognize it.
00:20:32.000 People who live on dog-dink hot dogs, that's what we call them, you know, those red hot dogs? 0.99
00:20:36.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:20:37.000 Yeah.
00:20:38.000 So, people who live on dog-dink hot dogs and macaroni, right? 0.90
00:20:41.000 And they think that that's life.
00:20:42.000 Yeah.
00:20:43.000 And they're barely subsisting.
00:20:44.000 Like, they are living in what I would consider to be worse than Third World. 1.00
00:20:48.000 Yeah.
00:20:49.000 And yet, they think they're doing okay because they get $250, $300 a month from the government,
00:20:54.000 they can afford to buy their hot dogs that God only knows what goes in them, you know,
00:20:59.000 and they literally live on hot dogs and macaroni.
00:21:01.000 And I just, I don't understand why when we as Native people start speaking up and saying,
00:21:07.000 I don't want to live like that.
00:21:08.000 You know, like, yeah, I grew up with no power and no running water.
00:21:12.000 Does that mean I want to stay living with no power and no running water?
00:21:16.000 And why should I in a country like Canada?
00:21:18.000 Yeah.
00:21:19.000 Yeah.
00:21:20.000 And, you know, we're talking about this pipeline as if it's the only issue and they've made
00:21:25.000 it into the only issue.
00:21:26.000 And for Idle No More, it became, you know, the omnibus bills.
00:21:30.000 And the omnibus bills were all about, you know, and, you know, I will criticize the
00:21:34.000 conservative government for this.
00:21:35.000 Sure.
00:21:36.000 They were conflating 40 or 50 different little issues into one bundle and then saying, okay,
00:21:41.000 this is going to fix all of these things.
00:21:43.000 So you couldn't really pick one thing out of those things and say, no, no, I like all
00:21:46.000 this, but I don't like that.
00:21:47.000 Yeah.
00:21:48.000 It makes it hard to reject if 39 of the 40 are good, it makes it hard to reject the bill,
00:21:51.000 even though you may have a serious problem with the one.
00:21:53.000 Exactly.
00:21:54.000 And that was where the issue was coming because they were sneaking little shots at water protection
00:21:58.000 in there.
00:21:59.000 Like they were, they basically took away protection for water and land for native people.
00:22:03.000 Okay.
00:22:04.000 But meanwhile, some of the other stuff was good stuff.
00:22:06.000 Now this, this pipeline thing is a very different issue where it's a singular issue.
00:22:09.000 It's one pipeline.
00:22:10.000 And the misinformation that was put out there about it, but I mean, half the people that 1.00
00:22:14.000 I know tell me that, no, it's not, it's not a natural gas pipeline, you idiot. 0.99
00:22:19.000 And I'm like, okay, what is it then? 1.00
00:22:21.000 And then they'll tell me, oh no, it's bitumen for the tar sands.
00:22:24.000 And I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about.
00:22:26.000 Like you're, you're here with your son and you're freaking out and you're telling me that 1.00
00:22:29.000 I'm the idiot. 1.00
00:22:30.000 You don't even know that it's liquid natural gas. 1.00
00:22:33.000 Like, and here's the other thing.
00:22:36.000 This is a, the elephant in the room.
00:22:38.000 Native people don't want you to build pipelines through our watersheds where we get our drinking
00:22:43.000 water.
00:22:44.000 We don't want pipelines going through graveyards.
00:22:47.000 I mean, that's kind of a common sense.
00:22:49.000 That makes sense.
00:22:50.000 Like you ever watch Pet Sematary or The Exorcist?
00:22:52.000 It might not turn out so well.
00:22:54.000 You don't want, you don't want to go through an Indian graveyard. 1.00
00:22:55.000 It never works out.
00:22:57.000 But at the same time, most of us are like, look, we acknowledge the fact that we, we live
00:23:02.000 in a world run on, you know, fossil energy.
00:23:06.000 And until we come up with some better ways to do things, this is the world we live in.
00:23:10.000 And a lot of us are like, we're not happy about it.
00:23:13.000 And we'd like to try and wean ourselves off of that stuff.
00:23:15.000 But we know that it's not going to be instant.
00:23:18.000 At the same time, we get these environmentalist people that lecture us and come and say, well,
00:23:22.000 if you acknowledge the fact that, you know, we need fossil fuels right now, that you're
00:23:27.000 an Uncle Tom, or you're a government agent, or you work for the big oil companies, right?
00:23:34.000 And it's really, it's destructive, because somebody like me who's dedicated their life 0.99
00:23:39.000 to Indigenous rights has people sometimes saying shit like that to me. 0.94
00:23:42.000 And I have people flat out tell me, you know, I can't believe that you said that the people 0.98
00:23:47.000 in Wet'suwet'en are divided.
00:23:49.000 And I was like, well, am I wrong?
00:23:51.000 Like, do you know anybody in Wet'suwet'en?
00:23:53.000 I'll be honest, I only know a few people.
00:23:55.000 But the people that I know, they can't even agree.
00:23:58.000 Even between themselves.
00:23:59.000 Even between themselves, they can't agree.
00:24:01.000 So, you know, we're not monolithic people.
00:24:05.000 So we moved from pipelines and the original sort of discussion about what, you know, the pros
00:24:10.000 and the cons should it be, who's getting listened to, who's not.
00:24:13.000 Now we're at a stage where people are blockading railroads, they're trying to shut down infrastructure,
00:24:18.000 there's a hashtag shutdown Canada, and the government, I think, has been rightly criticized
00:24:22.000 for being a little inactive, showing a lack of leadership on this.
00:24:26.000 Where do you think the government could go, and how would you rate the Trudeau government's
00:24:30.000 response to this situation overall? 1.00
00:24:32.000 So, their response to the situation is somewhere between abject moronic and pathetic. 1.00
00:24:39.000 That's their reaction. 0.99
00:24:40.000 Tell us what you really think, John.
00:24:42.000 So, they could have easily just bypassed all of this nonsense with one simple thing.
00:24:50.000 And it would have put the onus on the people in Wet'suwet'en. 0.92
00:24:53.000 It would have avoided all the blockades and all the solidarity movements.
00:24:56.000 All they had to do is say, okay, you know what?
00:24:58.000 We're going to come to Wet'suwet'en. 1.00
00:25:00.000 We're going to sit down with the elected chief and council because that is, according to the
00:25:04.000 Indian Act and according to Canadian law, those are your representatives.
00:25:08.000 As to whether or not they're actually representing the will of the people, that could be argued.
00:25:12.000 Sure.
00:25:13.000 Right?
00:25:14.000 We will also sit down with your clan heads.
00:25:17.000 With the hereditary chiefs.
00:25:19.000 Those type of people.
00:25:20.000 Sorry, I should use the term that everyone's using.
00:25:22.000 So, with the hereditary chiefs, they could be in the meeting as well.
00:25:25.000 Sure.
00:25:26.000 And, more importantly, the people.
00:25:28.000 Right?
00:25:29.000 You make the meeting open.
00:25:30.000 None of this secret behind closed doors nonsense.
00:25:34.000 You have a band meeting where you invite everybody in the community and you say, okay, tell us your concerns.
00:25:41.000 How do you really feel about this?
00:25:42.000 And, at the end of the meeting, after everybody has the full information where you tell them, not bitumen, not tar sands.
00:25:49.000 Yes, we are amenable to avoiding going through watersheds.
00:25:54.000 You know?
00:25:56.000 If they would have done that, all of this would have been avoided.
00:26:00.000 Right?
00:26:01.000 But, instead, they ignored it.
00:26:03.000 They thought, oh, you know, it's just a bunch of white liberal hippies and a couple Indians and they're hanging out in the middle of nowhere where nobody goes anyway.
00:26:11.000 It's not an important place.
00:26:12.000 Oh, they're blockading a road.
00:26:14.000 Nobody goes over there.
00:26:15.000 So, it doesn't matter.
00:26:16.000 Just ignore it.
00:26:17.000 It will all go away.
00:26:18.000 That's the typical liberal government benign neglect.
00:26:22.000 That's been the liberal government's policy towards Indians since John A. MacDonald.
00:26:27.000 Right?
00:26:28.000 It's benign neglect.
00:26:29.000 If we just ignore the problem, eventually it will go away on its own.
00:26:32.000 Now, the issue is that it didn't go away.
00:26:37.000 Very.
00:26:38.000 More and more native people are using the pipeline and the Wet'suwet'en stuff to actually advocate for their stuff that's going on.
00:26:47.000 Which is good and bad.
00:26:48.000 The problem is...
00:26:49.000 The problem is...
00:26:50.000 So, something has maybe nothing to do...
00:26:52.000 Still a First Nations indigenous issue, but not about the pipelines now.
00:26:56.000 Yeah.
00:26:57.000 Mohawk in Tynadigga.
00:26:58.000 Mm-hmm.
00:26:59.000 Right?
00:27:00.000 They have nothing to do with Wet'suwet'en.
00:27:01.000 Sure.
00:27:02.000 It's across the country.
00:27:03.000 Very far.
00:27:04.000 It's across the country, but they've had a lot of issues, that community with the government.
00:27:09.000 Mm-hmm.
00:27:10.000 A lot of issues.
00:27:11.000 So, they took a good opportunity, and they said, okay, well, in solidarity with these
00:27:16.000 guys, we're gonna do our own blockade.
00:27:18.000 Sure.
00:27:19.000 Now, hopefully, and this goes to one of your other points, hopefully what they're doing,
00:27:23.000 though, is hopefully they have some prepared asks.
00:27:26.000 Mm-hmm.
00:27:27.000 If you don't have an ask, there's no point in having a protest.
00:27:30.000 Yeah.
00:27:31.000 I guess people don't know what it is that you...
00:27:32.000 Yeah.
00:27:33.000 Yeah.
00:27:34.000 It would be like me saying, I protest against murder and racism.
00:27:37.000 It's like, okay, cool.
00:27:39.000 Like, everybody hates murder.
00:27:40.000 It's bad.
00:27:41.000 Mm-hmm.
00:27:42.000 And racism is bad.
00:27:43.000 You know, like, so what do you want?
00:27:45.000 Well, I just don't want murder and racism.
00:27:47.000 It's like, okay, but how specifically are we gonna deal with this issue?
00:27:52.000 I mean, it's really easy to say, I don't like murder and racism.
00:27:55.000 It's not so easy to come up with a way to prevent murders and racism.
00:27:58.000 Mm-hmm.
00:27:59.000 So, I'm hoping that they're smart enough to put together some cohesive plans, some actual
00:28:05.000 asks.
00:28:06.000 Mm-hmm.
00:28:07.000 But so far, I haven't really seen much of that.
00:28:08.000 And that's part of the issue, too, because we see these people on TV talking about native
00:28:13.000 concerns, and then when they're asked a specific question about it, like, okay, well, what
00:28:18.000 do you, how do you think that looks?
00:28:19.000 Like, what are you asking us?
00:28:21.000 Mm-hmm.
00:28:22.000 And people are shocked when the average Canadian is looking at the TV watching this and saying,
00:28:27.000 well, how the hell do I support these people when they're not actually asking me for anything?
00:28:31.000 Yeah.
00:28:32.000 Like, yeah, we know.
00:28:33.000 We get it. 1.00
00:28:34.000 Indians got screwed. 1.00
00:28:35.000 Like, I think at this point, everybody in Canada realizes that the way we were treated 0.99
00:28:39.000 as native people was terrible. 0.92
00:28:41.000 I mean, I don't think anybody is gonna argue against that.
00:28:43.000 Sure.
00:28:44.000 Yeah.
00:28:45.000 Okay.
00:28:46.000 Exactly.
00:28:47.000 And so, like, I made a joke on Twitter about, I call it reconciliation.
00:28:51.000 Okay.
00:28:52.000 Because, or, rec assimilation. 0.72
00:28:54.000 Because it's not reconciliation.
00:28:56.000 They don't really want to say sorry.
00:28:57.000 They want us to assimilate.
00:28:58.000 Sure.
00:28:59.000 So they say sorry enough to get us to be like everybody else.
00:29:02.000 Mm-hmm.
00:29:03.000 But the truth is that if you want real reconciliation, instead of saying sorry all the time, which
00:29:07.000 we know.
00:29:08.000 So the tears didn't really.
00:29:09.000 Yeah, you know, like doing the, yeah, the whole, you know, look at my fancy socks, but
00:29:12.000 now I'm gonna cry a tear for the indigenous people. 1.00
00:29:14.000 Mm-hmm.
00:29:15.000 Like, that didn't convince anybody.
00:29:16.000 Sure.
00:29:17.000 What would convince us is saying, you know what, we're really sorry about the crappy way
00:29:20.000 that you've been treated.
00:29:21.000 And now, in order to show you, instead of just tell you that we're sorry, we're gonna
00:29:26.000 come up with some actual ways to help your community.
00:29:29.000 Right?
00:29:30.000 Like, how many years have they been talking about clean drinking water?
00:29:33.000 Mm-hmm.
00:29:34.000 Something I've been personally involved in with you, actually.
00:29:36.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:29:37.000 So, there's a big difference between Sam Eskenazi saying, hey, you know what, this is
00:29:42.000 really crappy.
00:29:43.000 These people don't have clean drinking water, so I'm gonna do something about it.
00:29:46.000 Yeah.
00:29:47.000 Right?
00:29:48.000 The government's saying, oh, it's horrible, they don't have any clean drinking water, and
00:29:51.000 we're gonna fix that, and then doing nothing.
00:29:52.000 Yeah.
00:29:53.000 Right?
00:29:54.000 Or whatever they're doing is extremely ineffective.
00:29:55.000 Where you saw a problem, and you've dealt with it the way most people do.
00:29:59.000 You see a problem, you try to come up with a viable solution.
00:30:02.000 Mm-hmm.
00:30:03.000 Instead of just talking about the problem.
00:30:04.000 Yeah.
00:30:05.000 So, this is another issue that we have, like, as Native Canadians, is that a lot of times,
00:30:10.000 our advocates don't really even understand what we're advocating for.
00:30:13.000 Mm-hmm.
00:30:14.000 And then we have people that aren't really Native, and that hurts.
00:30:17.000 Right?
00:30:18.000 Like, because then they're not even really Native, and you see some white liberal hippie
00:30:21.000 guy on TV, and he comes over with his peace brother and all that nonsense, and then the
00:30:25.000 next words out of his mouth are, and we're gonna blockade this bridge until you do what
00:30:30.000 we say.
00:30:31.000 And it's like, okay, but okay, then what do you want us to do?
00:30:33.000 Oh, well, we'll get to that.
00:30:35.000 It's like, well, shouldn't you have that prepared before you blockade the bridge?
00:30:38.000 Mm-hmm.
00:30:39.000 You know?
00:30:40.000 Yeah.
00:30:41.000 So, you touched on that.
00:30:42.000 So, the last kind of thing I wanted to ask is, how does this interplay with sort of the
00:30:46.000 East-West divide that we're seeing Canada?
00:30:47.000 Because there's a lot of Western anger, and I think rightfully so, about economic conditions 0.92
00:30:53.000 or stopping Alberta, for example, from exporting some natural resources that its economy depends
00:30:59.000 on so strongly.
00:31:00.000 So, how is this kind of affecting the East-West divide?
00:31:03.000 I mean, you're from out West.
00:31:04.000 Yeah.
00:31:05.000 What is your take?
00:31:06.000 Okay, so that's an even tougher one, because a lot of people out West really do feel like
00:31:11.000 the East not only takes us for granted, but it's more of like, when you send that much
00:31:18.000 money over the course of three or four decades, and somebody like me goes to university, and
00:31:24.000 I find out from a friend of mine on my football team that he paid not even a tenth of what
00:31:29.000 I paid for tuition.
00:31:31.000 Mm-hmm.
00:31:32.000 You find out that his girlfriend, who had a kid, got free daycare while she was in university.
00:31:36.000 Meanwhile, my friends with kids, when they were in university, had to pay.
00:31:39.000 And then, sorry, there's a different university.
00:31:41.000 Yeah.
00:31:42.000 So, we're talking University of Alberta versus Concordia or Bishops.
00:31:45.000 Okay.
00:31:46.000 Right?
00:31:47.000 So, I found out that this teammate of mine that went to Bishops, he paid as much for his
00:31:51.000 degree that I paid for one semester.
00:31:54.000 So, you know, when you find stuff like that out, then you realize that a lot of that was
00:31:58.000 paid for with transfer money.
00:31:59.000 Mm-hmm.
00:32:00.000 Like, and once you actually do a little bit of digging, you realize how much money was
00:32:03.000 sent in these equalization payments.
00:32:06.000 And you gotta remember, I grew up in the middle of nowhere, right?
00:32:09.000 So, when I did a job, my part-time job when I was a kid was working outside most of the
00:32:16.000 time, right?
00:32:17.000 Mm-hmm.
00:32:18.000 You're working outside and it's 30, 40 below.
00:32:20.000 Yeah.
00:32:21.000 And you feel like, yeah, you know what?
00:32:22.000 I get paid 20 bucks, 25 bucks an hour.
00:32:25.000 I'm doing okay.
00:32:26.000 And then you find out that some other dude was, you know, basically parking cars in Montreal.
00:32:31.000 Mm-hmm.
00:32:32.000 And he got the same amount that I was getting care of.
00:32:34.000 Sure.
00:32:35.000 And you ask yourself, like, wait a second.
00:32:36.000 I had to live in this miserable place.
00:32:38.000 Yeah.
00:32:39.000 It's hard work.
00:32:40.000 You sweat.
00:32:41.000 It's cracking your back.
00:32:42.000 Yeah.
00:32:43.000 And meanwhile, this guy had paid like a tenth of what I paid for tuition and all these
00:32:46.000 different benefits and you start thinking to yourself, why?
00:32:49.000 Like, it doesn't make sense.
00:32:51.000 And now with this pipeline stuff and people out east are like, you know, it's funny because
00:32:55.000 a lot of people out east are super anti-pipeline without even knowing what's going on.
00:32:59.000 And it's like, okay, but you realize that most of what you have in this economy came
00:33:03.000 from us.
00:33:04.000 Mm-hmm.
00:33:05.000 The fact that Canada was one of the few countries that didn't have a huge depression a couple
00:33:09.000 of years ago came strictly because of our energy sector.
00:33:12.000 Right.
00:33:13.000 The petrodollar.
00:33:14.000 Yeah.
00:33:15.000 And so it's like, you have all these things that you don't even real, you take it totally
00:33:19.000 for granted.
00:33:20.000 Mm-hmm.
00:33:21.000 So a lot of people out west are fed up with that.
00:33:22.000 And this whole thing with this last election, you know, like, we came right out and said,
00:33:26.000 we don't want Trudeau.
00:33:28.000 Mm-hmm.
00:33:29.000 He's about as, he's the worst candidate.
00:33:32.000 And I can remember friends of mine out east, like, even more east than we are right now.
00:33:37.000 Sure.
00:33:38.000 To us.
00:33:39.000 Yeah.
00:33:40.000 I know Toronto's the center of the world.
00:33:41.000 Toronto is.
00:33:42.000 But, you know, to us, the east east is even more so like Newfoundland.
00:33:44.000 Sure.
00:33:45.000 Sure, sure.
00:33:46.000 I had friends in Newfoundland laughing at me.
00:33:47.000 They were literally laughing at me.
00:33:49.000 And saying, that must really piss you off that before the election's even halfway over,
00:33:53.000 you already know that your vote doesn't count.
00:33:55.000 Yeah.
00:33:56.000 So basically mocking you saying, no, I don't know, because of the time zones.
00:33:58.000 Yeah.
00:33:59.000 They're like, it doesn't even matter, Ryan.
00:34:00.000 He's like, just get used to it.
00:34:01.000 You're going to have Trudeau again.
00:34:02.000 And, like, luckily I'm not one of those people that's like, you know, oh my God, it's
00:34:07.000 Trudeau.
00:34:08.000 But I was, I was, I was irritated about it.
00:34:09.000 And I said, look, you know what does bother me is that you contribute nothing monetarily
00:34:14.000 or economically to this country.
00:34:16.000 We contribute everything.
00:34:17.000 And yet you feel comfortable mocking me because I'm telling you this guy is bad for the economy
00:34:24.000 and he's bad for the country. 0.51
00:34:25.000 And then, you know, the gun stuff, don't want to get you started on that.
00:34:29.000 So, I mean.
00:34:30.000 So, just sort of think of us, you know, being someone from, I was born and raised in Toronto.
00:34:34.000 Yeah.
00:34:35.000 Does anyone have a gun?
00:34:36.000 You know, why does anyone care about guns so much out of us?
00:34:39.000 Okay.
00:34:40.000 So, where I grew up in northern Alberta, every house has a gun.
00:34:43.000 Every single house.
00:34:44.000 Every single house.
00:34:45.000 And you have a gun because of bears, wolves.
00:34:48.000 I mean, it's just a, it's a reality of life.
00:34:51.000 Right?
00:34:52.000 So, for, to tell somebody like me that, you know, we're going to take your guns away,
00:34:56.000 we're like, no.
00:34:57.000 No, that's not going to happen.
00:34:59.000 And the funny thing is a lot of police officers in Alberta, because they know the situation,
00:35:03.000 they're like, yeah, we would, we're not going to do it.
00:35:05.000 We won't, we won't apply that law.
00:35:07.000 Yeah.
00:35:08.000 They're not going to confiscate people's guns.
00:35:09.000 A lot of them said, point blank, we're not confiscating people's guns. 1.00
00:35:11.000 Like, that's a stupid, stupid thing to ask. 1.00
00:35:13.000 Mm-hmm. 1.00
00:35:14.000 But, a lot of people out here, I mean, you call a police officer here.
00:35:17.000 Mm-hmm.
00:35:18.000 Okay.
00:35:19.000 We're in Toronto, right?
00:35:20.000 Sure.
00:35:21.000 A bear walks in the back of your yard.
00:35:23.000 I know it's a, it's a, yeah.
00:35:25.000 I like the possibility.
00:35:26.000 Yeah, sure.
00:35:27.000 It sounds like it's a, let's say, it's a Toronto bear.
00:35:29.000 A very large raccoon.
00:35:30.000 Yeah.
00:35:31.000 Maybe a big raccoon.
00:35:32.000 Fat raccoon, right?
00:35:33.000 But no, he comes in your backyard and he's standing right there.
00:35:36.000 Um, you can call police, animal control, someone's going to be here within 15 minutes.
00:35:41.000 Sure.
00:35:42.000 Yeah.
00:35:43.000 Because it's, it's a dangerous situation.
00:35:44.000 If we call a police officer in Battle Prairie, sometimes it takes up to an hour and a half.
00:35:47.000 Sure.
00:35:48.000 Two hours.
00:35:49.000 Two hours.
00:35:50.000 Now, I started with the CRCMP.
00:35:51.000 I started with the CRCMP.
00:35:52.000 I started with the CRCMP.
00:35:53.000 Yeah.
00:35:54.000 So, if my kids are playing outside and a bear comes walking in the yard, I don't have an
00:35:58.000 hour and a half to wait for the police.
00:35:59.000 Yeah.
00:36:00.000 I take my rifle and I go outside and I kill a bear. 0.60
00:36:02.000 Um, you know. 0.92
00:36:03.000 Mm-hmm.
00:36:04.000 I, that's just the way it is.
00:36:05.000 That's the reality of life.
00:36:06.000 So, to us, that's a big deal.
00:36:08.000 Mm-hmm.
00:36:09.000 You know, for someone to say they're going to take away what we consider to be our safety.
00:36:12.000 Mm-hmm.
00:36:13.000 Right?
00:36:14.000 There's all these different things.
00:36:15.000 And the other thing about the East and West that's a huge divide is that, you know,
00:36:19.000 we, we feel like we earned a lot of money.
00:36:22.000 Mm-hmm.
00:36:23.000 And yet, roads in Alberta are sometimes really in poor condition.
00:36:27.000 And those are the roads that transported all the stuff so that we could send money for
00:36:33.000 transfer payments, you know?
00:36:34.000 Yeah.
00:36:35.000 We feel like we, there's no rail line between Edmonton and Calgary.
00:36:39.000 Really?
00:36:40.000 Yeah.
00:36:41.000 There should have been a passenger rail line and a, you know, a domestic transport line.
00:36:46.000 Mm-hmm.
00:36:47.000 Like, it should have been.
00:36:48.000 Yeah.
00:36:49.000 That should have been done years ago.
00:36:50.000 Yeah.
00:36:51.000 But they always put it off and they always said, no, no, that's going to be billions
00:36:52.000 of dollars.
00:36:53.000 We need to send money East to make sure everybody... 1.00
00:36:55.000 I love it.
00:36:56.000 That's actually shocking to me.
00:36:57.000 I mean, I would just assume two very large cities would have some, you know, some serious
00:37:01.000 infrastructure connections.
00:37:02.000 Yeah.
00:37:03.000 And that, this is a, this is the issue.
00:37:04.000 Like, there's a lot of stuff like that.
00:37:06.000 And when you go to, when you go to Calgary, you realize that, you know, our, they built
00:37:10.000 Self Health Campus, which is a really nice hospital.
00:37:12.000 Mm-hmm.
00:37:13.000 That's the only new hospital they built recently.
00:37:14.000 And this is in a city of two million people.
00:37:16.000 Hmm.
00:37:17.000 So we have four hospitals, I think, which is not enough for two million people.
00:37:21.000 I mean, these are the kinds of things that, that a lot of people from Alberta are really
00:37:25.000 concerned about.
00:37:26.000 And now, basically being laughed at.
00:37:28.000 This is the thing.
00:37:29.000 It was the national tone of things.
00:37:31.000 Sure.
00:37:32.000 Right? 0.95
00:37:33.000 There were, there were articles in newspapers where people are like, oh, shut up, Alberta. 0.92
00:37:36.000 Get over it.
00:37:37.000 Yeah.
00:37:38.000 Right?
00:37:39.000 Yeah.
00:37:40.000 Is that really the way you talk to somebody that, that, is that how you would talk to
00:37:41.000 your dad?
00:37:42.000 Because we kind of feel like we're the dad in the situation.
00:37:44.000 Sure.
00:37:45.000 Sure.
00:37:46.000 Yeah.
00:37:47.000 Yeah.
00:37:48.000 Yeah.
00:37:49.000 And being made fun of. 1.00
00:37:50.000 Like, oh, you have a shitty job, dad. 1.00
00:37:51.000 Your job is so sucky. 1.00
00:37:52.000 Like, it's the worst job in the world. 1.00
00:37:53.000 Yeah.
00:37:54.000 Like, okay, cool.
00:37:55.000 Yeah, that's awesome.
00:37:56.000 So we probably shouldn't give you any more money then, right?
00:37:58.000 Mm-hmm.
00:37:59.000 And this is, you know, this is the situation we're in.
00:38:02.000 Mm-hmm.
00:38:03.000 And Native people, how that plays in with us, this is a, this is another interesting thing,
00:38:06.000 is that there are a lot of Native people that are fed up with the government.
00:38:09.000 Mm-hmm.
00:38:10.000 We don't feel like the government listens to us.
00:38:12.000 And some of us have actually said, what would it look like if we were Alberta and not the rest
00:38:18.000 of the country?
00:38:19.000 Yeah.
00:38:20.000 And how would we deal with the government?
00:38:21.000 Because people also don't understand this.
00:38:22.000 Treaties aren't with the Canadian government.
00:38:24.000 Oh, no.
00:38:25.000 I'm not aware of that yet.
00:38:26.000 Every treaty is signed with the Crown.
00:38:28.000 Mm-hmm.
00:38:29.000 Now, we're, technically we are supposed to be a constitutional monarchy.
00:38:33.000 We're not.
00:38:34.000 We know that.
00:38:35.000 We know that we're not really, there's not really much to do with the Queen here anymore.
00:38:38.000 Sure.
00:38:39.000 But the treaties were between the Crown and the people.
00:38:42.000 Mm-hmm.
00:38:43.000 Now, so what does that mean?
00:38:44.000 How are we going to deal with that?
00:38:46.000 The Indian Act.
00:38:47.000 The Indian Act is a very problematic piece of legislation.
00:38:51.000 It's, it's how Indians are governed in this country.
00:38:54.000 Mm-hmm.
00:38:55.000 But the problem with the Indian Act is that it's, to be blunt, it's racist.
00:38:58.000 And it is not, it doesn't take into account our best interests.
00:39:02.000 So, you know, if there was a new government that was only Alberta, well then we would
00:39:07.000 no longer be governed under the Canadian Indian Act.
00:39:09.000 You know, so suddenly all those, that technique and that legislation, that governing legislation,
00:39:14.000 poof, gone.
00:39:15.000 Just gone.
00:39:16.000 So then, then how, how would we protect treaty lands?
00:39:19.000 How would we protect Native land?
00:39:21.000 You know, like, those are, those are legitimate questions that a lot of Native people are asking.
00:39:25.000 But people don't realize, at least I don't think, they don't realize that a lot of times
00:39:29.000 the reason Native people are asking these questions is because we're strongly considering.
00:39:32.000 Mm-hmm.
00:39:33.000 I mean, look at the, the number of Native people that don't vote.
00:39:36.000 Mm-hmm.
00:39:37.000 If all of them decided at once to vote for, for a party, that would be a significant swing
00:39:42.000 vote because it's, it's new voters.
00:39:43.000 Yeah.
00:39:44.000 And it's a significant number.
00:39:45.000 But the problem is a lot of us don't vote and we stay disconnected from the system.
00:39:49.000 Mm-hmm.
00:39:50.000 So, that's not the reason why the government doesn't really listen to us.
00:39:53.000 Because why would they?
00:39:54.000 If not, not an active constituency in their, in their political calculations.
00:39:57.000 Exactly.
00:39:58.000 If they're not, if there's no upside for them, then why would they even take, because they
00:40:02.000 know they're going to alienate a certain number of the conservative base.
00:40:05.000 Mm-hmm.
00:40:06.000 Because a lot of conservative people don't really want to do much with Indians.
00:40:09.000 Mm-hmm.
00:40:10.000 So, they'll alienate any of those people and there's no upside because those, those
00:40:13.000 will still get bounced by Native people. 0.97
00:40:15.000 Mm-hmm.
00:40:16.000 So, what do you think of the, sort of, background on that one's there?
00:40:18.000 So, you said, you know, that some of the base might not want to have anything to do or
00:40:21.000 too much to do with.
00:40:22.000 Like, what's the kind of background on that?
00:40:23.000 Or do you think the cause for these things can easily move forward from it?
00:40:26.000 Well, we could.
00:40:27.000 But here's the issue, right?
00:40:28.000 And I don't want people to think I'm conservative bashing because I'm not.
00:40:31.000 But there is a strong push from a lot of people that are on the conservative side of
00:40:35.000 the fence that they don't really want to do a whole lot to do with the Indians.
00:40:38.000 They think that the status quo is fine and that, you know, they never want to admit
00:40:41.000 that Canada's history is a little bit problematic.
00:40:44.000 They'll, you know, they're the people that white is right. 0.99
00:40:46.000 Sure.
00:40:47.000 And I'm not even talking about white supremacy.
00:40:49.000 I'm not even going to get into that.
00:40:50.000 Sure.
00:40:51.000 They're just a basic, you know, white, red, this is who I am.
00:40:54.000 I'm a European, Canadian.
00:40:55.000 Sure.
00:40:56.000 Those guys.
00:40:57.000 Now, then on top of that, then you go far to the right and you have the actual racists 0.86
00:41:00.000 that actually hate Indians. 0.68
00:41:01.000 But then on the, on the liberal side of things, we have the, you know, the white knights.
00:41:06.000 They're going to save us and they're going to do everything for us.
00:41:09.000 But at the same time, those are the same people that created the residential school system.
00:41:13.000 You know, they're going to save us by making us more like white people. 1.00
00:41:16.000 They're going to save us by teaching us how to be white. 0.99
00:41:20.000 Right.
00:41:21.000 Instead of saying, hey, you know what?
00:41:22.000 These people have legitimate culture and language.
00:41:25.000 We should let them keep that.
00:41:26.000 And we should be helping them be more participatory in Canada.
00:41:30.000 That, that would be the nice way to do it.
00:41:32.000 Sure.
00:41:33.000 So it's going to squeeze, I guess, from both sides.
00:41:35.000 Absolutely.
00:41:36.000 And for us, it's hard because no government has ever been good for names.
00:41:40.000 Sure.
00:41:41.000 Like, there have been liberal governments.
00:41:42.000 The liberal government's the one that started the white paper.
00:41:44.000 You know, that was Trudeau.
00:41:45.000 That was, that was Trudeau's dad.
00:41:47.000 Elder Trudeau.
00:41:48.000 Yeah, Elder Trudeau.
00:41:49.000 Yeah, Elder Trudeau.
00:41:50.000 That sounds really sad.
00:41:51.000 But yeah, you know, like, Elder Trudeau ruled the white paper, which was basically telling 1.00
00:41:55.000 the Indians, we don't want you to be idiots. 1.00
00:41:57.000 Like, you're going to be like everybody else. 1.00
00:41:59.000 Which is, you know, to us, that's a, that's a, that's a flat out call to, I hate to say it
00:42:04.000 because I don't like to misuse words.
00:42:05.000 Sure.
00:42:06.000 To call it a genocide. 1.00
00:42:07.000 It's like saying, you don't deserve to be here as idiots. 1.00
00:42:10.000 Now, if you want to be more like white people, you just say it. 1.00
00:42:13.000 Sure.
00:42:14.000 So it's like, it's definitely cultural, maybe, you know, physical, depending on how they're
00:42:17.000 going to do it.
00:42:18.000 Sure, yeah.
00:42:19.000 Yeah.
00:42:20.000 And like, you know, with, with stuff like the residential schools, I've had this 0.79
00:42:22.000 topic before.
00:42:23.000 I don't like to use the word genocide, but what happened to my people was a genocide.
00:42:29.000 Now we're, we're experiencing the echoes of that genocide.
00:42:32.000 Sure.
00:42:33.000 So they're not actively, and look, anybody that says they are is one of those people
00:42:36.000 I don't even pay attention to, but they're not actively trying to kill us.
00:42:40.000 I mean, it's not like in Nicaragua where they murdered 19 Miagna activists, I think
00:42:45.000 like three weeks ago.
00:42:46.000 They just machine gunned them.
00:42:47.000 Yeah.
00:42:48.000 That doesn't happen in Canada.
00:42:49.000 Sure.
00:42:50.000 Yeah.
00:42:51.000 Exactly.
00:42:52.000 We do stuff a little more on the down low.
00:42:53.000 Sure.
00:42:54.000 It's more cultural, slowly remove their language, you know, take their kids and stick 1.00
00:42:58.000 them with white foster families.
00:42:59.000 Sure.
00:43:00.000 That kind of stuff.
00:43:01.000 But those are echoes of the genocide.
00:43:03.000 Those are, those are echoes of genocidal policies.
00:43:05.000 They're not actual genocide.
00:43:07.000 And the problem is again, language.
00:43:09.000 Sure.
00:43:10.000 Because if I, if I tell you, Sam, you're, you're, you're trying to commit a genocide
00:43:14.000 on my people and you're like, wait a minute, my people went through a genocide.
00:43:19.000 Sure.
00:43:20.000 But it wasn't anything like what you're going through.
00:43:22.000 Mm-hmm.
00:43:23.000 So are you more or less likely to be inclined towards feeling empathy to me?
00:43:27.000 Sure.
00:43:28.000 Would I do that?
00:43:29.000 I would argue that you'd be less inclined.
00:43:31.000 So this is that sort of distinction between, you know, facts don't care about your feelings,
00:43:35.000 but we still have to take people's feelings into account because obviously we need to work
00:43:40.000 together ultimately.
00:43:41.000 Exactly.
00:43:42.000 And like, so this is why I tell people like, like precision of language is so important
00:43:46.000 because I, I will come right up and say that our, our situation right now as, as natives
00:43:52.000 in Canada is worlds better than it's ever been.
00:43:55.000 Okay.
00:43:56.000 That doesn't mean it's, it's where it needs to be.
00:43:58.000 It doesn't mean that it's good.
00:44:00.000 Mm-hmm.
00:44:01.000 It's just better than it's ever been.
00:44:02.000 Mm-hmm.
00:44:03.000 I don't have to get permission to leave the reserve.
00:44:05.000 I don't have to go to the Indian agent and beg him to let me go off reserve to go work.
00:44:10.000 Yeah.
00:44:11.000 Right.
00:44:12.000 That's something that my dad's generation had to do.
00:44:14.000 I, I can speak openly anywhere, anytime about native rights.
00:44:19.000 And I don't have to worry that I'm going to get thrown in jail or murdered.
00:44:22.000 Mm-hmm.
00:44:23.000 Right.
00:44:24.000 That's, that's worlds different than how it is in other places.
00:44:26.000 But for some reason, people think that if we exaggerate and make, blow things up and
00:44:31.000 use words like genocide and, you know, like words that are very inflammatory, that's
00:44:35.000 going to make things better.
00:44:36.000 And it doesn't because then the average Canadian is sitting there thinking, you know, like
00:44:40.000 I, I, like, I've been to Casinorama.
00:44:43.000 Sure.
00:44:44.000 You know, like, they're like, it doesn't look so bad there.
00:44:46.000 And they, they don't go to like the really bad reserves.
00:44:49.000 Sure.
00:44:50.000 But, you know, a lot of natives have seen some of these more urban reserves, you know.
00:44:53.000 Mm-hmm.
00:44:54.000 They see those and they're like, it doesn't look so bad.
00:44:56.000 Right?
00:44:57.000 So it's, it's sort of a mix between a lack of education on some people's part, not understanding
00:45:03.000 where some of the anger and frustration is coming from.
00:45:06.000 Exactly.
00:45:07.000 Like, suicide groups taking that anger and then deciding I'm going to use it for another
00:45:11.000 purpose that may not actually align with the First Nations community.
00:45:14.000 Yeah.
00:45:15.000 And then the First Nations community getting screwed once again because they lost their
00:45:19.000 voice a second time when they were just about to get it.
00:45:21.000 Is that sort of a good recap?
00:45:22.000 Yeah.
00:45:23.000 A hundred percent.
00:45:24.000 Like, like Standing Rock, right?
00:45:25.000 Sure.
00:45:26.000 Perfect example.
00:45:27.000 Bunch of people show up.
00:45:28.000 Everybody for about three or four months on social media was posting selfies with signs
00:45:32.000 saying, I stand with Standing Rock.
00:45:34.000 And then there were a bunch of arrests. 0.99
00:45:36.000 Some guys did some really dumb stuff. 0.50
00:45:38.000 They arrested, I think, 75 people. 0.75
00:45:41.000 25 of those people got bailed out right away.
00:45:44.000 They went home.
00:45:45.000 25 of those people stayed for a little bit longer, got bailed, went home.
00:45:50.000 25 people still in jail.
00:45:52.000 Every single one of them an Indian. 1.00
00:45:54.000 And then a friend of mine took a video of the campground where all those people were
00:45:58.000 staying and it looks like a dump.
00:46:00.000 And who gets stuck cleaning it up?
00:46:02.000 Yeah.
00:46:03.000 Native people.
00:46:04.000 And all the people that were there that were, to put it bluntly, white people that showed
00:46:09.000 up and provoked and talked all kinds of smack, well they all left.
00:46:15.000 Mummy and Daddy paid their bail.
00:46:17.000 They didn't have to stay in jail.
00:46:18.000 But there's Indians that are still in jail because they don't have the money to pay bail 1.00
00:46:22.000 so they're going to stay for the full 90 days or whatever it is. 0.98
00:46:25.000 They're stuck in jail the whole time and meanwhile there's a huge ass mess on the reserve
00:46:29.000 that all these wonderful people that were standing in solidarity came and they left this big mess 0.98
00:46:34.000 and it's Indians left holding the bag.
00:46:36.000 So it's kind of like a protest tourism kind of, you know, you do it for kicks after university.
00:46:41.000 Yeah.
00:46:42.000 We call it tragedy tourism.
00:46:43.000 Yeah.
00:46:44.000 Okay.
00:46:45.000 Because it's like, you know, they want to come and be all activist-y for a couple of days
00:46:48.000 and then go home.
00:46:49.000 And meanwhile, Native people, that's their life. 0.99
00:46:52.000 Yeah.
00:46:53.000 Right.
00:46:54.000 So it's frustrating.
00:46:55.000 Well, any final thoughts?
00:46:56.000 I mean, like I said, there's a lot going on.
00:46:58.000 Any final thoughts about where you think or where you'd like to see the situation go?
00:47:02.000 Sure.
00:47:03.000 Okay.
00:47:04.000 So you and I talked about this and I talked about it with Amanda a while ago and I think
00:47:09.000 that the biggest thing is that I like that Native people are speaking up, right?
00:47:14.000 Because the problem is that, especially within Canada, Native people don't feel comfortable
00:47:20.000 to speak up unless everyone else is speaking up at the same time.
00:47:23.000 Which is why you're seeing all these different blockades pop up at the same time, right?
00:47:27.000 Sure.
00:47:28.000 But what I would really like to see, I don't want to see people blockading highways or blockading
00:47:34.000 streets because the truth is that's going to alienate the very people that we're trying
00:47:38.000 to appeal to.
00:47:39.000 I mean, if we're going to make changes in Canada, we need the average Canadian on side.
00:47:44.000 We need them to understand that what happened to us is wrong and that, you know, talking
00:47:48.000 about reconciliation and acting on reconciliation are very different.
00:47:53.000 That it's not just throw some money at the problem and hope it goes away.
00:47:56.000 There needs to be more thought put into this.
00:47:59.000 But more importantly for Native people, I want people to understand that, look, those
00:48:05.000 people don't represent all Native people.
00:48:07.000 I don't represent all Native people. 0.99
00:48:10.000 Nobody represents all Native people. 1.00
00:48:12.000 We're all very, we're not monolithic.
00:48:15.000 We're all very different.
00:48:16.000 But we're all people.
00:48:18.000 And we want people to understand that, look, there are some situations in Canada that need
00:48:22.000 to change.
00:48:23.000 There are problems that need to be fixed.
00:48:26.000 And I'm saying this within my own community.
00:48:29.000 I'm not just going to point fingers and say that this is all about white Canada being
00:48:32.000 racist.
00:48:33.000 It's not.
00:48:34.000 It's not.
00:48:35.000 But are there issues still with systemic racism?
00:48:38.000 Absolutely.
00:48:39.000 Are there issues still where Native people aren't comfortable speaking up?
00:48:43.000 Absolutely.
00:48:44.000 Don't ever read the comments on any article that has anything to do with Native people
00:48:49.000 because you will start to despise mankind.
00:48:51.000 It's that bad.
00:48:52.000 And the racism is so in your face in those comments that all of a sudden you realize,
00:48:57.000 wait a minute, it's not, we're not where we need to be.
00:49:00.000 So, you know, and I want you to keep doing what you're doing because, I mean, you do good
00:49:05.000 work.
00:49:06.000 And a lot of these people that are out there just trying to say, hey, look, you know what,
00:49:09.000 let, instead of immediately jumping to judgment, let's, let's do some research.
00:49:13.000 Let's dig into this.
00:49:14.000 Let's talk to some different people.
00:49:16.000 Because, you know, like we're, we're in such a polarized world right now that like, you know,
00:49:20.000 with left and right and white and dark and nobody just says, oh, well, you know, maybe
00:49:26.000 we should just look at the facts and then make some judgments based on those, you know?
00:49:31.000 Yeah.
00:49:32.000 So I'm really hoping that, you know, the next couple of months, especially we can maybe
00:49:37.000 drag the conversation away from this, you know, all or nothing maximalism to being more
00:49:43.000 like normal people and say, hey, you know what?
00:49:46.000 Ryan doesn't believe 100% in the pipelines, but he's also not 100% anti pipeline.
00:49:51.000 Ryan thinks we should have pipelines, but don't run them through watersheds and graveyards
00:49:56.000 and actually talk to the people whose land you're going to go through before you do it.
00:50:00.000 Like, I don't think that that's too much to ask, but I also don't think that we should
00:50:05.000 be freezing in the cold and the dark.
00:50:07.000 You know, I, I wouldn't like that.
00:50:09.000 So.
00:50:10.000 Yeah.
00:50:11.000 All right.
00:50:12.000 That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
00:50:13.000 You know, I think you've given people a lot of stuff to digest and think about.
00:50:17.000 I know, like I said, I, I, you know, being someone who was born and raised in Toronto,
00:50:20.000 a lot, a lot of stuff about out West that suddenly became more real for me after this conversation.
00:50:24.000 If someone wants to get all of you, you're on Twitter.
00:50:27.000 What is your Twitter handle?
00:50:28.000 It's at Fender69.
00:50:29.000 All right.
00:50:30.000 So if you would like to have a question of Ryan, or if you'd like to be trolled back by
00:50:35.000 Ryan after you make offensive comments, he's an excellent comeback artist.
00:50:39.000 Please reach out to him on Twitter.
00:50:41.000 I'm Sam Ashkenazi.
00:50:42.000 Once again, this is Ryan Barlow's indigenous rights activist.
00:50:44.000 And I think so much for watching.