Juno News - Saskatchewan Health Authority is spreading COVID misinformation

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.920 Coming up, Saskatchewan spreads COVID misinformation,

00:00:16.540 CBC goes full steam ahead on climate alarmism,

00:00:20.020 and one of the architects of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms

00:00:22.940 shakes his head at what's become of Canada.

00:00:24.780 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:32.620 Hello and welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:00:35.660 This is Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show, Tuesday, October 19th, 2021.

00:00:40.880 One day after the Great Alberta Equalization Referendum,

00:00:45.520 and it's a lot like an American presidential election

00:00:48.200 in that we still don't actually know the results.

00:00:52.120 We have a sense of them, and generally speaking,

00:00:55.360 it looks like anywhere from 58% to 60% of people

00:00:59.440 voted in favor of taking equalization out of the Constitution.

00:01:04.240 This is the mechanism by which Alberta's hard-earned money 0.79

00:01:07.540 goes to provinces that are not as wealthy,

00:01:09.880 like Atlantic Canada and notably Quebec.

00:01:13.620 Here's the thing, though.

00:01:14.820 It's non-binding.

00:01:16.220 We've talked about this on the show in the past.

00:01:18.200 The federal government doesn't look at the referendum and say,

00:01:20.640 oh, well, okay, you Albertans voted.

00:01:22.760 I guess the Constitution changes.

00:01:24.420 No, there still is this very complex and convoluted formula,

00:01:27.920 but what those pursuing this referendum have been banking on

00:01:31.880 is that the federal government will have

00:01:33.660 a moral and political and legal duty

00:01:36.660 to negotiating good faith with the province.

00:01:39.880 This is a duty that people think comes from

00:01:42.100 a Supreme Court decision about a Quebec secession referendum,

00:01:45.560 that if people in a province are that concerned about something,

00:01:49.600 that they vote in favor of it in a referendum,

00:01:52.780 and it has to do with independence,

00:01:54.440 the federal government has to play ball.

00:01:56.740 So I am not ignoring this.

00:01:58.480 We actually did at True North a live broadcast

00:02:00.700 delving into this and covering the results in real time

00:02:03.720 as they were coming in last night.

00:02:05.400 The nature of this thing, however,

00:02:07.100 is that the provincial results that come from all municipalities,

00:02:10.660 because it was the communities that were running this,

00:02:13.580 are not going to become available for another week.

00:02:16.000 So we'll have a lot more to break down once we get the full numbers,

00:02:18.920 but suffice it to say,

00:02:20.060 it looks like Albertans had their say

00:02:21.620 and are clearly dissatisfied with the status quo

00:02:24.560 as far as equalization.

00:02:26.400 And I know that a big part of the question now will be,

00:02:29.220 how much can we extrapolate from that?

00:02:31.560 Is this just Albertans looking and saying,

00:02:33.520 yeah, I don't like how much money goes to Quebec,

00:02:35.560 or is it a broader discontent with Confederation?

00:02:39.180 Which I think it probably is.

00:02:41.580 I think it probably is from a lot of the people I've spoken to.

00:02:44.500 So that's something we'll be paying close attention to

00:02:47.220 in the days, weeks, and let's be real,

00:02:49.360 probably months and years to come.

00:02:51.780 I want to move a province east though

00:02:53.540 and talk about Saskatchewan for a couple of moments.

00:02:56.240 A couple of standout examples of COVID lunacy in Saskatchewan,

00:03:01.220 which is, by the way, a lovely province.

00:03:03.000 I've been there on a few occasions

00:03:04.220 and I've never had a bad experience there.

00:03:07.020 The Saskatchewan Health Authority posted on Twitter yesterday

00:03:10.620 in an effort to get young people vaccinated

00:03:14.400 because the Canadian government had posted this thing

00:03:17.020 saying, I'm young and healthy, should I still get COVID?

00:03:19.440 And they say, yeah, we should definitely

00:03:21.000 have you get vaccinated no matter how young

00:03:23.120 and spry and vibrant you are.

00:03:24.960 No one says spry when you're talking about young people.

00:03:26.940 Anyway, I guess I just did.

00:03:28.560 And then the Saskatchewan Health Authority retweeted it

00:03:31.540 and says, your risk from COVID-19

00:03:34.620 is not determined by age, fitness level, or community.

00:03:38.940 Your risk is determined by vaccine status.

00:03:43.020 78% of all new cases and hospitalizations

00:03:46.140 in Saskatchewan in September were unvaccinated

00:03:48.840 or partially vaccinated people.

00:03:50.900 So I don't want to do the whole Zapruder film here

00:03:54.120 and like, just go like frame by frame

00:03:56.000 or in this case, word by word

00:03:57.660 and break this down to the point

00:03:59.880 where you just have no tolerance to look at a tweet

00:04:02.460 or look at anything from the province of Saskatchewan

00:04:04.980 ever again.

00:04:05.900 But I do want to parse this a little bit

00:04:07.660 because they say in no uncertain terms,

00:04:10.300 your risk from COVID is not determined

00:04:13.000 by age, fitness level, or community.

00:04:16.020 We know this is absolutely untrue.

00:04:18.700 Age has a very, very key bearing

00:04:22.560 on how sick you're likely to get,

00:04:25.060 especially when it comes down to your general health,

00:04:28.300 which is definitely connected to fitness level.

00:04:31.920 So a young, vibrant, active, fit, 20-something

00:04:36.420 is at significantly lower risk

00:04:40.440 than an unfit older person with comorbidities galore.

00:04:45.520 This is, I mean, this is one of the first things

00:04:48.100 we learned about COVID before a lot of the other things

00:04:50.680 is that it was disproportionately affecting the elderly

00:04:53.540 because they have weakened immune systems

00:04:55.220 because they're more likely to have comorbidities

00:04:57.840 and so on.

00:04:58.940 Now, this is not saying that young people

00:05:00.860 shouldn't get vaccinated.

00:05:02.580 I'm a firm believer in people doing whatever they want,

00:05:05.400 protecting themselves.

00:05:06.660 And let's be real, a lot of young people

00:05:08.140 are going to look at vaccine passports

00:05:09.640 in provinces like Alberta, Saskatchewan, and elsewhere

00:05:12.380 and say, well, this is the only way I can do

00:05:14.480 all the social things I want to do.

00:05:15.940 So this is not about telling people

00:05:18.380 what they should or shouldn't do.

00:05:19.800 It's simply saying that if you're going to have

00:05:21.560 this discussion, let's at least have it honestly.

00:05:25.180 What Saskatchewan is doing is blatantly

00:05:27.680 and brazenly lying about COVID risks

00:05:31.460 as they work to bump up their vaccine uptake,

00:05:34.500 specifically in that younger demographic.

00:05:37.440 And that PHAC line is not saying it.

00:05:39.500 They're saying that the COVID vaccine

00:05:40.680 helps protect you from getting sick.

00:05:43.180 Even if you're young, healthy, and fit,

00:05:45.200 the vaccine will give your body a layer of protection

00:05:47.400 that it didn't have.

00:05:48.360 Now, that at least is an honest thing.

00:05:50.200 If you believe the vaccine is protecting you

00:05:52.300 and making you less symptomatic

00:05:54.360 and less likely to get sick,

00:05:55.780 that's true whether you're young, healthy,

00:05:57.840 or older and unhealthy,

00:05:59.380 or for that matter, younger and unhealthy.

00:06:01.460 But I mean, we'll talk about that in just a moment.

00:06:04.100 But the Saskatchewan line here,

00:06:06.740 that nothing has any bearing

00:06:08.860 on how sick you're going to get,

00:06:10.280 except whether you're vaccinated or not.

00:06:11.800 And the tweet itself tends to undermine that point

00:06:15.240 because there still are, as they say here,

00:06:17.560 22% of these cases and hospitalizations

00:06:20.660 that do not fit into that category.

00:06:24.300 And by the way, they're lumping in this

00:06:26.380 cases and hospitalizations in September.

00:06:30.420 Cases and hospitalizations are very different things.

00:06:33.820 Cases matter less and less.

00:06:36.240 When you're talking about populations

00:06:39.180 that are not getting sick,

00:06:41.160 that are not going into the ICU,

00:06:42.760 that are not experiencing major symptoms,

00:06:45.160 if you have COVID and it to you feels like

00:06:47.840 you've got the sniffles or a sore throat,

00:06:49.900 I wouldn't consider that case a sign

00:06:52.260 of anything all that bad.

00:06:53.920 I mean, in a lot of cases,

00:06:55.120 and look, I know people have very different beliefs

00:06:57.460 on the efficacy of the vaccine.

00:06:59.160 I'm vaccinated.

00:07:00.140 The reason I got vaccinated

00:07:01.480 is because I was confident

00:07:03.260 that if I was going to get it,

00:07:05.520 I wanted to reduce the burden

00:07:07.560 that I would face as far as symptoms go.

00:07:10.260 And that was a decision that I made.

00:07:12.000 You can make your own decisions,

00:07:13.320 but I'm not arguing the science here.

00:07:15.880 I'm simply pointing out

00:07:17.280 that all the things we know about this

00:07:19.820 are being completely ripped up

00:07:22.480 when Saskatchewan is using

00:07:24.340 such disingenuous language

00:07:25.940 to promote vaccination.

00:07:27.040 And very critical in the question of choice

00:07:31.720 is informed consent.

00:07:34.460 And you become less and less informed

00:07:36.960 when this is what passes

00:07:38.400 for the government messaging surrounding COVID.

00:07:40.800 When the government is lying,

00:07:43.020 blatantly lying,

00:07:44.020 or just to give the benefit of the doubt,

00:07:46.060 is so woefully incompetent,

00:07:47.860 they can't clearly communicate something.

00:07:49.600 So whether they want to blame it

00:07:50.940 on malice or incompetence,

00:07:52.160 I'll leave up to them.

00:07:52.920 But I think this is fairly dishonest.

00:07:54.700 And it becomes more and more difficult

00:07:56.900 for anyone to know what to believe

00:07:58.640 or to trust the so-called

00:08:01.020 official public health experts

00:08:03.060 when they're saying that,

00:08:05.400 yeah, your age, your health,

00:08:06.480 your fitness level have no bearing.

00:08:07.900 I mean, remember how Alberta

00:08:09.220 just had to walk back

00:08:10.860 them claiming that a 14-year-old boy

00:08:13.420 had died of COVID

00:08:14.260 when in actuality,

00:08:15.520 as confirmed by his own sister,

00:08:18.480 he died of brain cancer

00:08:19.740 and just happened to test positive for COVID

00:08:21.980 as he was on his deathbed.

00:08:23.400 That doesn't make the death

00:08:24.900 any less tragic.

00:08:26.920 And the fact that this was

00:08:28.200 a politicized passing

00:08:29.740 was quite shameful

00:08:31.160 because this family was grieving

00:08:32.660 and all of a sudden

00:08:33.760 they were forced to engage

00:08:35.100 in what was really a political debate

00:08:37.040 because the only reason

00:08:38.760 you would count a case like that

00:08:40.600 as a COVID case

00:08:42.640 is if you're trying to inadvertently

00:08:45.700 or intentionally boost your numbers

00:08:47.980 or if you just don't care

00:08:49.740 about the distinction.

00:08:50.660 But even then,

00:08:51.180 you have to ask the question

00:08:52.260 of why do these governments not care?

00:08:54.800 Why do they not care

00:08:55.880 about getting it right?

00:08:58.500 Because anytime governments

00:08:59.820 point to someone

00:09:00.700 who is in that demographic,

00:09:02.420 you don't expect to die of COVID.

00:09:04.560 Anytime they point to someone there,

00:09:06.100 it's meant to be jarring.

00:09:08.040 It's meant to be jarring.

00:09:09.220 It's meant to make people think,

00:09:10.780 oh, well, I mean, yeah,

00:09:11.860 if it happened to a 14-year-old boy,

00:09:13.360 maybe I was wrong to think

00:09:14.640 that this is a disease

00:09:15.760 that only helps certain people.

00:09:17.120 But the whole thing is that

00:09:19.580 as Ben Shapiro says,

00:09:20.660 facts don't care about your feelings,

00:09:22.640 your political agenda,

00:09:23.900 your narrative,

00:09:24.780 the direction you want

00:09:25.860 to take these things.

00:09:26.780 It is completely disconnected

00:09:29.140 from the facts and the science

00:09:31.500 on which we're supposed

00:09:32.420 to be relying

00:09:33.360 when it comes to understanding

00:09:35.680 what's happening

00:09:36.360 in the course of this pandemic.

00:09:38.080 And we don't get to concoct

00:09:40.820 a risk that by and large

00:09:42.780 isn't there for certain demographics

00:09:44.700 and certain populations

00:09:45.820 just because we want to achieve

00:09:48.100 this public health priority

00:09:49.540 that the government has set out

00:09:50.840 of 100% vaccine uptake

00:09:53.080 and zero cases.

00:09:54.280 We're never going to get to zero cases.

00:09:56.200 Anyone who builds a policy around that

00:09:58.100 is just so woefully mistaken

00:10:00.060 that it is even possible.

00:10:02.620 But this is coming from Saskatchewan,

00:10:04.660 which by the way,

00:10:05.340 is not a standout example

00:10:06.480 of how to handle this.

00:10:07.440 Just on Thursday,

00:10:09.220 and I didn't see it until Saturday,

00:10:11.360 the Saskatchewan police published,

00:10:13.280 I'm not going to show them here

00:10:14.360 because I don't want

00:10:15.260 to contribute to this,

00:10:16.120 but they showed 15 pictures

00:10:17.780 of people that looked like

00:10:19.220 they were screenshots

00:10:20.180 from live streams

00:10:22.140 or, you know,

00:10:23.260 they've zoomed into the background

00:10:24.680 of a photo that someone posted

00:10:26.140 on social media

00:10:27.360 or whatever it was.

00:10:29.080 But 15 people

00:10:30.840 who are wanted in connection

00:10:33.200 with a public health investigation

00:10:35.500 that the Saskatchewan police service

00:10:37.420 is undertaking.

00:10:38.800 And that investigation

00:10:40.120 is into people

00:10:41.140 that supposedly violated

00:10:42.720 public health orders

00:10:43.880 at Maxime Bernier's

00:10:45.880 and the People's Party of Canada's

00:10:47.580 Victory Night Party

00:10:48.820 in Saskatoon

00:10:49.760 or Election Night Party

00:10:50.720 in Saskatoon

00:10:51.480 on September 20th.

00:10:53.400 They call them victory parties,

00:10:54.660 even if you lose the election,

00:10:56.620 which is what happened

00:10:57.440 with the PPC.

00:10:58.100 But the reality is

00:11:00.500 the PPC people,

00:11:03.140 these supporters,

00:11:04.020 are now being sought out

00:11:05.740 by the police,

00:11:07.260 which you want to identify them

00:11:08.800 to, I don't know,

00:11:09.820 serve them with a ticket

00:11:10.940 for not wearing a mask

00:11:12.180 or not social distancing.

00:11:13.520 I don't know.

00:11:13.940 It doesn't say

00:11:14.740 what the offense is.

00:11:16.500 But I want to go into

00:11:17.340 this police release

00:11:18.400 from Saskatoon here.

00:11:20.140 They say that

00:11:21.380 the public health enforcement

00:11:23.320 oftentimes is conducted

00:11:25.900 after the fact.

00:11:28.060 This is, I think,

00:11:28.760 quite fascinating.

00:11:30.580 Enforcement is not

00:11:31.820 always visible

00:11:32.640 and largely occurs

00:11:34.080 after the incident.

00:11:35.520 In this case,

00:11:36.380 the investigation

00:11:37.020 into the event

00:11:37.860 of September 20th

00:11:38.800 has at this time

00:11:39.820 required more than

00:11:41.340 160 hours

00:11:43.300 of investigative time.

00:11:46.960 160 hours.

00:11:48.760 Now, I said in my column

00:11:50.880 on this,

00:11:51.300 I don't know if

00:11:52.220 we're talking about

00:11:53.520 one guy that was

00:11:55.060 working around the

00:11:55.820 clocks in September 20th

00:11:57.120 or maybe 160 officers

00:11:59.060 that each just put in an hour.

00:12:00.700 Who knows what

00:12:01.140 the breakdown is?

00:12:01.860 But 160 investigative hours

00:12:04.800 of well-paid police officers

00:12:07.940 to try to track down

00:12:09.880 a handful of unmasked

00:12:11.360 PPC supporters

00:12:12.220 from an event

00:12:12.780 a couple of weeks ago

00:12:13.640 that has had no issues

00:12:15.440 attached to it

00:12:16.200 so far as I can tell.

00:12:17.760 So is this really

00:12:19.320 the best use of time?

00:12:20.300 Is the pandemic

00:12:21.180 that under control

00:12:22.280 that we can just start

00:12:23.060 going after people

00:12:24.060 at an election night party?

00:12:25.340 Is there that little crime

00:12:27.680 in Saskatoon

00:12:29.220 or in Saskatchewan

00:12:30.320 that this is where

00:12:31.380 we're devoting

00:12:32.000 our law enforcement efforts?

00:12:33.720 Now, one of the issues here

00:12:34.920 is that oftentimes

00:12:35.580 these are not individual.

00:12:37.240 In fact, I'd say usually

00:12:38.120 they aren't individual

00:12:38.880 police officers

00:12:39.700 that decide

00:12:40.400 they want to be vindictive

00:12:41.840 about these people.

00:12:42.720 Throughout the lockdown,

00:12:43.720 I've heard from

00:12:44.500 a great many police officers

00:12:45.760 that want nothing to do

00:12:47.320 with the heavy-handed enforcement

00:12:49.340 that's being foisted

00:12:50.380 upon them by the government

00:12:52.320 and by some of the overseers

00:12:54.140 of police.

00:12:55.020 I actually heard

00:12:55.840 from a couple of Saskatoon,

00:12:57.320 specifically Saskatoon

00:12:58.560 police officers

00:12:59.700 that have said,

00:13:00.940 yeah, we want nothing

00:13:02.000 to do with this.

00:13:02.460 And one of them said

00:13:03.300 that they're actually embarrassed.

00:13:05.800 Their colleagues

00:13:06.340 and them are embarrassed

00:13:07.220 that this is what

00:13:08.460 the police service

00:13:09.200 has decided

00:13:09.920 as an organization to do.

00:13:13.100 So all of this is to say

00:13:14.880 I'm not blaming

00:13:15.740 individual police officers.

00:13:17.160 In fact,

00:13:17.600 if I were one of the officers there,

00:13:19.160 I'd hope that at the end of it,

00:13:20.140 they say, oh yeah, you know what?

00:13:21.500 We looked hard.

00:13:22.240 These 15 people,

00:13:23.180 they're just ghosts in the wind.

00:13:24.500 We have no idea who they are.

00:13:26.000 We'll never track them down.

00:13:27.120 This is going to be

00:13:27.560 an unsolved crime.

00:13:28.720 We'll put it on the cold case

00:13:29.920 and, you know,

00:13:30.460 40 years later

00:13:31.240 when some investigator

00:13:32.120 is flipping through

00:13:32.740 the cold cases,

00:13:33.800 they'll see unsolved murder,

00:13:35.300 unsolved rape,

00:13:36.400 serial killer.

00:13:37.740 Oh, who are these 15 people

00:13:39.160 at that PPC part?

00:13:40.160 Well, you know,

00:13:40.720 let's track them down now

00:13:41.680 and it will become a great story.

00:13:43.360 They'll make a CBC feature

00:13:45.060 on it someday.

00:13:46.180 But the reality is

00:13:47.340 this is now

00:13:47.900 what policing is about.

00:13:48.980 And they say there's a backlog.

00:13:50.680 They do this all after the fact.

00:13:52.480 It's not even about preventing

00:13:53.780 these issues

00:13:55.060 from taking place

00:13:56.000 in the moment.

00:13:56.720 It's about going after the fact

00:13:58.380 and punitively trying

00:13:59.760 to hunt people down

00:14:00.640 that might have been

00:14:01.140 unmasked in public.

00:14:02.220 This is aligning

00:14:03.380 with what I shared last week

00:14:04.700 about the COVID snitch portals

00:14:06.700 that Saskatchewan

00:14:08.060 and Manitoba

00:14:08.900 and some other provinces have.

00:14:10.360 I think Quebec as well.

00:14:11.720 This is what it's now

00:14:12.860 come down to.

00:14:14.140 So no surprise

00:14:15.480 that Saskatchewan

00:14:16.300 is telling people

00:14:17.000 no matter what,

00:14:17.580 no matter who you are,

00:14:18.700 your health,

00:14:19.360 your age,

00:14:19.840 none of that matters.

00:14:20.880 You're going to get sick

00:14:21.680 and you're going to end up

00:14:22.260 in the hospital.

00:14:23.120 And they're also the same people

00:14:24.340 that are trying to hunt down

00:14:25.620 the unmasked

00:14:26.460 and using 160 police hours,

00:14:29.400 160 investigative hours

00:14:31.680 to do it.

00:14:32.620 We've got to take

00:14:33.400 a quick break.

00:14:34.140 When we come back,

00:14:34.780 more of the Andrew Lawton Show

00:14:36.160 here on True North.

00:14:37.280 Stay tuned.

00:14:39.920 You're tuned in

00:14:40.800 to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:14:44.320 Welcome back

00:14:45.180 to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:14:46.800 Coming up in just

00:14:48.020 a couple of weeks

00:14:48.820 is this massive conference

00:14:50.360 in Glasgow, Scotland

00:14:51.940 in the United Kingdom

00:14:52.920 on climate change.

00:14:54.560 It's the sequel

00:14:55.420 to the Paris conference,

00:14:56.860 COP26,

00:14:58.120 the big climate conference

00:14:59.280 that all of these people

00:15:00.680 around the world,

00:15:01.540 including from Canada,

00:15:02.720 are proving how much

00:15:04.040 they want to rain

00:15:05.420 in carbon emissions

00:15:06.500 that they all fly

00:15:07.860 to one place

00:15:09.060 and have a big old party

00:15:10.560 and talk for weeks

00:15:11.680 and weeks and weeks

00:15:12.400 about all these things

00:15:13.540 they should do

00:15:14.120 that don't really affect them

00:15:15.860 with their private jets

00:15:17.700 and government entourages,

00:15:19.260 but affect the rest of us

00:15:20.280 who have to pay carbon taxes

00:15:22.040 and are told to live

00:15:23.260 without X, Y, and Z.

00:15:25.340 Well, 30,000 of them

00:15:26.620 are going to be in Glasgow.

00:15:27.840 And this is something

00:15:28.860 that we were actually

00:15:29.740 at True North

00:15:30.360 hoping to cover.

00:15:32.280 And oddly,

00:15:32.980 the United Nations

00:15:33.800 who puts on this conference

00:15:35.420 wasn't too keen

00:15:36.300 on having independent

00:15:37.460 journalists there.

00:15:38.260 So we'll be covering it

00:15:39.780 from afar

00:15:40.580 with whatever we are able

00:15:41.940 to pull out

00:15:43.080 of this conference.

00:15:44.560 But CBC was able

00:15:45.740 to get full access.

00:15:47.420 CBC is sending

00:15:48.300 a whole team to Glasgow

00:15:49.620 to cover this.

00:15:51.040 And I wanted to share

00:15:51.820 with you on the eve

00:15:53.140 of this summit

00:15:53.820 a post that was published

00:15:55.180 on CBC's news website

00:15:56.820 by its editor-in-chief

00:15:58.440 Brody Fenlon

00:15:59.440 about how CBC

00:16:00.820 is going all in

00:16:01.980 on climate change,

00:16:03.300 not just throughout Glasgow,

00:16:05.000 but in general

00:16:05.820 in its coverage.

00:16:06.620 The article is titled

00:16:08.860 The Planet is Changing

00:16:10.440 So Will Our Journalism.

00:16:12.440 The subtitle

00:16:13.180 CBC News

00:16:14.340 Commits to Doing

00:16:15.160 Even More

00:16:16.100 Climate Change Journalism.

00:16:18.820 Now,

00:16:19.260 climate change journalism

00:16:20.540 is this emerging field.

00:16:22.460 You have

00:16:22.840 many media outlets

00:16:24.060 including in Canada

00:16:24.980 that get grant money,

00:16:26.520 a big bucks enterprise

00:16:28.020 to hire reporters

00:16:29.920 just to focus

00:16:30.940 on climate change.

00:16:32.120 A lot of these

00:16:33.040 are activists.

00:16:34.260 They are reporting

00:16:34.940 on this through the lens

00:16:36.060 that they've already

00:16:37.360 really decided

00:16:38.480 what the story is.

00:16:40.800 And ultimately,

00:16:41.860 these are the types

00:16:42.760 of journalists

00:16:43.320 that we're going to see

00:16:44.300 in this program.

00:16:45.720 Now,

00:16:45.940 CBC says,

00:16:46.840 yeah,

00:16:47.020 climate change

00:16:47.560 is not just about

00:16:48.180 the environment.

00:16:48.880 It's about health,

00:16:49.520 the economy,

00:16:50.220 jobs,

00:16:50.920 energy,

00:16:51.500 food,

00:16:51.880 water,

00:16:52.320 security,

00:16:52.900 geopolitics,

00:16:53.720 justice,

00:16:54.320 and equity.

00:16:55.880 No sector

00:16:56.680 will be spared

00:16:57.700 its impact.

00:16:59.360 Climate change

00:16:59.920 will define

00:17:00.500 every aspect

00:17:01.340 of our lives

00:17:02.040 and those

00:17:02.920 of generations

00:17:03.820 to come.

00:17:05.800 This is not

00:17:06.960 a neutral,

00:17:08.400 objective approach

00:17:09.600 to climate change.

00:17:10.640 What they're saying

00:17:11.660 there is the

00:17:12.460 alarmist position.

00:17:13.720 That's a very

00:17:14.260 subjective position.

00:17:15.280 You can say

00:17:15.680 it's an important

00:17:16.580 political issue.

00:17:17.480 You can say

00:17:17.920 it's broader

00:17:18.620 than just the environment.

00:17:19.860 Sure.

00:17:20.360 But what they're saying

00:17:21.280 there is that

00:17:21.700 they're going

00:17:22.140 whole hog

00:17:22.640 into the

00:17:23.180 alarmist narrative

00:17:24.340 that this is

00:17:25.660 this growing

00:17:26.320 and existential threat

00:17:27.660 that will kill us all

00:17:29.080 if it's not reined in.

00:17:30.420 And the article

00:17:31.500 goes on.

00:17:32.780 We commit

00:17:33.360 to doing

00:17:34.000 even more,

00:17:35.200 Brody Fenlon writes.

00:17:36.400 They're going

00:17:36.680 to launch

00:17:37.000 a new banner

00:17:37.540 called

00:17:37.860 Our Changing Planet.

00:17:39.060 They're going

00:17:39.240 to make

00:17:39.480 climate change

00:17:40.280 a significant

00:17:41.000 focus of journalism

00:17:42.180 and a priority

00:17:43.280 area across

00:17:44.320 newsrooms,

00:17:45.260 programs,

00:17:45.800 and digital

00:17:46.220 platforms

00:17:46.800 before and

00:17:48.020 after COP26.

00:17:49.860 They've designated

00:17:50.880 climate as a

00:17:51.680 national beat.

00:17:52.520 They're having

00:17:53.100 a new climate

00:17:53.840 editor and

00:17:54.960 they're also

00:17:55.360 going to have

00:17:55.860 a new

00:17:56.200 international

00:17:57.000 climate

00:17:57.640 reporting team.

00:17:59.520 Now let's

00:18:00.160 just hear how

00:18:00.840 they're planning

00:18:01.340 on covering

00:18:01.940 COP26.

00:18:03.100 They're going

00:18:03.760 to send

00:18:04.280 a London

00:18:05.120 correspondent.

00:18:06.440 They're going

00:18:06.780 to send

00:18:07.220 another London

00:18:08.100 correspondent.

00:18:09.300 They're going

00:18:09.780 to send

00:18:10.480 someone to

00:18:10.840 Calgary

00:18:11.280 to talk

00:18:11.880 about

00:18:12.120 Canada's

00:18:12.720 quote

00:18:13.060 deep

00:18:13.760 attachment

00:18:14.520 to

00:18:15.060 and

00:18:15.600 dependence

00:18:16.140 on

00:18:16.480 oil

00:18:16.840 and

00:18:17.060 gas

00:18:17.360 production.

00:18:18.980 Does that

00:18:19.840 not sound

00:18:20.720 like they're

00:18:21.520 trying to

00:18:22.120 write about

00:18:22.680 that as

00:18:23.100 though it's

00:18:23.420 a problem?

00:18:24.300 That they're

00:18:25.000 taking aim

00:18:25.840 at Canada's

00:18:26.840 resource

00:18:27.660 richness

00:18:28.200 and the

00:18:28.760 fact that

00:18:29.200 resources

00:18:29.740 are a

00:18:30.140 key part

00:18:30.660 of the

00:18:31.320 Canadian

00:18:31.640 economy.

00:18:32.140 That's how

00:18:32.420 I take

00:18:32.780 that.

00:18:33.280 I mean

00:18:33.460 obviously

00:18:33.820 I'll keep

00:18:34.320 an open

00:18:34.600 mind.

00:18:35.020 I'll follow

00:18:35.400 that coverage

00:18:36.020 but it

00:18:36.680 sounds like

00:18:37.500 Canada

00:18:38.080 and Alberta

00:18:39.260 are the

00:18:40.100 bad guys

00:18:40.760 in this

00:18:41.260 coverage plan.

00:18:42.680 They're also

00:18:43.040 sending a

00:18:43.600 senior

00:18:43.860 meteorologist

00:18:44.580 to Glasgow

00:18:45.340 to report

00:18:45.840 on the

00:18:46.060 science

00:18:46.360 behind the

00:18:46.820 headlines.

00:18:47.660 They're

00:18:47.760 going to

00:18:48.160 experiment

00:18:48.920 with carbon

00:18:50.460 offsets

00:18:51.120 and credits

00:18:51.780 related to

00:18:52.440 news gathering

00:18:53.120 travel.

00:18:53.620 So all

00:18:54.320 of this

00:18:54.600 travel of

00:18:55.160 sending

00:18:55.360 international

00:18:55.960 producers

00:18:56.480 and videographers

00:18:57.340 and reporters

00:18:58.000 around,

00:18:58.820 yeah that

00:18:59.220 emits a

00:18:59.620 carbon footprint.

00:19:00.460 So CBC

00:19:01.000 is going to

00:19:02.220 supposedly

00:19:02.900 offset that

00:19:04.120 footprint by

00:19:05.280 spending your

00:19:06.100 money because

00:19:07.320 that's what

00:19:07.800 CBC is,

00:19:08.740 an exercise

00:19:09.460 in government

00:19:10.060 subsidy,

00:19:10.820 your money

00:19:11.640 to plant

00:19:12.380 trees somewhere

00:19:13.320 so that they

00:19:14.300 feel less

00:19:15.000 guilty about

00:19:15.620 traveling to

00:19:16.700 pursue the

00:19:17.260 coverage that

00:19:17.820 they've decided

00:19:18.580 is important.

00:19:19.780 Okay I'm

00:19:20.200 dizzy just from

00:19:20.840 describing that.

00:19:22.080 But that's

00:19:22.520 basically what's

00:19:23.160 happening here.

00:19:23.700 So that

00:19:23.920 1.3 billion

00:19:24.820 CBC gets

00:19:25.920 they're going

00:19:26.460 to have

00:19:26.700 within that

00:19:27.140 a carbon

00:19:27.620 offset budget

00:19:28.640 so that they

00:19:29.480 can justify

00:19:30.100 sending dozens

00:19:30.980 of people

00:19:31.440 around the

00:19:31.920 world to

00:19:32.440 India,

00:19:33.360 Iceland,

00:19:34.020 Glasgow,

00:19:34.740 Alberta,

00:19:35.660 all to tell

00:19:36.320 us that we

00:19:36.900 need to

00:19:37.340 travel less

00:19:38.140 and do more

00:19:38.800 to fight

00:19:39.100 climate change.

00:19:39.880 Okay speaking

00:19:41.580 of India,

00:19:42.100 they've established

00:19:42.640 an India

00:19:43.080 bureau and

00:19:44.040 their correspondent

00:19:44.920 there Salima

00:19:45.560 Shivji is

00:19:46.140 going to do

00:19:47.180 a special

00:19:47.560 report on the

00:19:48.140 raging debate

00:19:48.940 over coal.

00:19:50.320 So again we're

00:19:50.880 now going to

00:19:51.280 lecture India

00:19:52.000 about how they

00:19:52.800 have to do

00:19:53.380 their environmental

00:19:54.780 and energy

00:19:55.420 policy because

00:19:56.220 we've apparently

00:19:56.860 decided to take

00:19:57.800 aim at Indian

00:19:58.720 coal production.

00:20:00.060 And just to top

00:20:00.760 it off,

00:20:01.140 Adrian Arsenault is

00:20:02.100 flying up to

00:20:02.860 Canada's north

00:20:03.560 where residents

00:20:04.520 are adjusting

00:20:05.380 to change

00:20:06.180 and offer

00:20:07.280 lessons for the

00:20:08.120 rest of the

00:20:08.580 country.

00:20:09.020 So this isn't

00:20:09.520 just a neutral

00:20:10.100 assessment of

00:20:11.200 what's happening.

00:20:11.900 CBC is going to

00:20:12.600 bring us lessons,

00:20:13.880 lessons for the

00:20:14.680 rest of the

00:20:15.060 country from the

00:20:15.820 north.

00:20:16.220 So we're going to

00:20:16.940 get a little

00:20:17.280 talking to and

00:20:18.240 finger wagging from

00:20:19.140 the state

00:20:19.460 broadcaster here

00:20:20.400 on climate

00:20:21.540 change.

00:20:21.940 Now this goes

00:20:22.740 on and on

00:20:23.620 and on and

00:20:24.180 they're saying

00:20:24.720 yeah we're still

00:20:25.280 covering other

00:20:25.880 things, we're

00:20:26.620 still covering

00:20:27.160 systemic racism,

00:20:28.300 equity, truth

00:20:29.080 and reconciliation.

00:20:30.580 Oh good, we

00:20:31.320 can't let those

00:20:31.980 go by the

00:20:32.420 wayside because

00:20:33.100 we're talking

00:20:33.600 about climate

00:20:34.600 change and

00:20:35.220 whatnot.

00:20:36.060 But CBC is

00:20:37.200 committing to

00:20:38.200 activism.

00:20:39.840 CBC, the

00:20:40.600 state broadcaster,

00:20:41.520 is committing to

00:20:42.100 climate activism

00:20:42.940 and this will

00:20:44.100 only benefit

00:20:45.000 certain types of

00:20:46.060 politicians for

00:20:46.880 whom these are

00:20:47.460 issues that they

00:20:48.620 very much claim

00:20:49.660 in their

00:20:50.360 wheelhouse.

00:20:51.540 Our planet is

00:20:52.320 changing, so

00:20:53.220 will our

00:20:54.080 journalism, Mr.

00:20:55.680 Fenlon writes.

00:20:56.420 Yeah, no doubt

00:20:57.300 about that.

00:20:58.280 We've got to

00:20:58.760 take a break.

00:20:59.240 When we come

00:20:59.600 back, more of

00:21:00.320 The Andrew

00:21:00.620 Lawton Show.

00:21:01.300 Stay tuned.

00:21:03.400 You're tuned in

00:21:04.600 to The Andrew

00:21:05.380 Lawton Show.

00:21:09.940 Welcome back to

00:21:11.240 The Andrew

00:21:11.720 Lawton Show,

00:21:12.360 Canada's most

00:21:13.320 irreverent talk

00:21:14.100 show here on

00:21:14.800 True North.

00:21:15.280 We've talked

00:21:16.120 a lot for

00:21:16.980 months and

00:21:17.660 months, coming

00:21:18.220 up on two

00:21:18.820 years now, about

00:21:19.960 our civil

00:21:20.640 liberties in

00:21:21.740 Canada being

00:21:22.620 under attack

00:21:23.380 from the

00:21:23.880 government.

00:21:24.440 And in fact,

00:21:24.960 that's the

00:21:25.280 very idea of

00:21:26.660 the liberal

00:21:27.140 democratic thesis,

00:21:28.240 if you're a

00:21:28.800 political theorist,

00:21:29.720 that the best

00:21:31.120 application of

00:21:32.660 our rights is

00:21:33.940 to be left

00:21:34.920 alone by

00:21:35.660 government, that

00:21:36.420 government is

00:21:37.040 the greatest

00:21:37.400 threat to your

00:21:38.140 ability to

00:21:38.660 pursue whatever

00:21:39.220 it is you want

00:21:39.960 to pursue as

00:21:41.180 an individual.

00:21:42.460 And this idea

00:21:43.240 was captured in

00:21:44.260 Canada nearly

00:21:44.920 40 years ago by

00:21:46.180 the Charter of

00:21:46.940 Rights and

00:21:47.380 Freedoms.

00:21:47.800 Now, I would

00:21:48.680 say it's not a

00:21:49.440 perfect document

00:21:50.400 because we have

00:21:51.920 so many applications

00:21:53.060 of it in court

00:21:53.900 decisions and even

00:21:55.140 from politicians

00:21:56.180 that I'd say do

00:21:57.060 not reflect what

00:21:58.600 the intended rights

00:22:00.080 of the Charter

00:22:00.740 were supposed to

00:22:01.480 be.

00:22:02.020 But nevertheless,

00:22:03.040 it is part of the

00:22:04.100 Canadian Constitution

00:22:05.660 that we have the

00:22:06.880 right to freedom of

00:22:07.760 expression, we have

00:22:08.660 the right to

00:22:09.160 mobility, we have

00:22:10.120 the right to

00:22:10.900 life, to liberty,

00:22:12.020 security, to all

00:22:13.260 of these things

00:22:14.040 that we should be

00:22:15.400 celebrating and

00:22:16.480 upholding.

00:22:17.480 But governments

00:22:18.620 don't seem to want

00:22:19.580 to do that.

00:22:20.520 Charter rights have 1.00

00:22:21.360 been under attack

00:22:22.100 for a year and a

00:22:23.040 half and many other

00:22:23.940 fora as well, but

00:22:24.920 certainly throughout

00:22:25.640 the course of the

00:22:26.300 pandemic and in

00:22:27.580 particular with this

00:22:28.600 latest vaccine

00:22:29.680 mandate if you want

00:22:31.240 to get on a plane

00:22:32.140 to fly out of the

00:22:33.360 country as one

00:22:34.620 example.

00:22:35.360 Let's go back to

00:22:36.260 the basics here.

00:22:36.980 I want to talk to

00:22:37.560 someone who was there

00:22:38.340 at the very beginning

00:22:39.280 when he was the

00:22:40.180 Premier of Newfoundland

00:22:41.300 and Labrador when

00:22:42.540 the Charter of Rights

00:22:43.320 and Freedoms was

00:22:43.980 being drafted, the

00:22:44.860 last surviving of the

00:22:46.600 Premiers involved in

00:22:47.740 that very significant

00:22:48.780 process in Canadian

00:22:50.400 history.

00:22:50.920 That is former

00:22:51.560 Newfoundland Premier

00:22:52.420 Brian Peckford who

00:22:54.020 joins me now.

00:22:54.920 Brian, it's wonderful

00:22:55.600 to talk to you.

00:22:56.240 Thanks very much for

00:22:57.040 your time today.

00:22:58.200 Thank you for having

00:22:58.880 me.

00:22:59.240 I'm more than pleased

00:23:00.840 to help clarify the

00:23:02.640 whole business about

00:23:03.420 the Charter of Rights

00:23:04.040 and Freedoms.

00:23:05.160 This is something that

00:23:06.560 again, we're coming

00:23:07.540 up on the 40th

00:23:08.780 anniversary of and I

00:23:09.780 think we'll have to

00:23:10.280 have you back around

00:23:11.100 then to talk about the

00:23:12.680 legacy of the Charter

00:23:13.940 but the one fundamental

00:23:15.840 thing that people have

00:23:17.240 viewed in the Charter

00:23:18.600 all throughout its

00:23:19.760 history is that it's

00:23:21.120 there to protect the

00:23:22.360 rights of Canadians and

00:23:23.920 we have in that

00:23:24.640 freedom of expression,

00:23:26.220 mobility, all of these

00:23:28.000 things have been under

00:23:28.960 an increasing threat

00:23:29.800 from government in the

00:23:30.640 last year and a half

00:23:31.600 and when you see the

00:23:33.080 Charter that you left

00:23:34.100 behind as part of your

00:23:35.100 political legacy and you

00:23:36.240 see what's been

00:23:36.740 happening, how do you

00:23:38.020 reconcile those two

00:23:39.000 visions?

00:23:40.380 I can't.

00:23:40.940 I can't reconcile

00:23:41.820 those two visions and

00:23:42.760 I'm sure that if any of

00:23:43.880 the other first ministers

00:23:44.820 were still alive, they

00:23:46.800 would voice the same

00:23:48.120 kind of shock and

00:23:49.660 surprise as I do to

00:23:51.080 see how callously the

00:23:54.440 governments, not

00:23:55.540 individuals or

00:23:56.540 organizations or

00:23:57.740 somebody who's trying

00:23:58.460 to undermine our

00:23:59.360 society or some

00:24:00.740 anarchist somewhere,

00:24:02.420 but the actual

00:24:03.720 governments whose

00:24:07.260 predecessors participated

00:24:10.520 in forming and

00:24:13.040 creating this Charter

00:24:14.640 of Rights and

00:24:15.100 Freedoms in the

00:24:15.740 Constitution Act of

00:24:16.780 1982.

00:24:17.920 So I am absolutely

00:24:18.900 shocked and have been

00:24:20.620 writing about it

00:24:21.440 extensively for the

00:24:23.220 last couple of years,

00:24:24.620 highlighting the fact

00:24:26.000 that what the

00:24:26.980 governments are doing

00:24:28.080 violates, you know,

00:24:29.840 at least four different

00:24:30.920 sections of the Charter

00:24:32.420 of Rights and Freedoms,

00:24:33.480 Section 2, Section 6,

00:24:35.580 Section 7, and Section

00:24:36.900 15, all of which deal

00:24:39.260 with freedoms and

00:24:40.140 rights, equality rights,

00:24:42.300 freedom of assembly,

00:24:43.460 freedom of association,

00:24:45.200 freedom of expression,

00:24:46.680 freedom to move around

00:24:47.480 the country, freedom

00:24:48.800 to have a job, a right,

00:24:51.980 it's a right to have a

00:24:53.280 job.

00:24:54.080 Your rights are supposed

00:24:54.940 to be protected and yet

00:24:55.860 jobs are being taken

00:24:56.720 away from people.

00:24:58.140 So, and governments

00:25:01.280 are doing this willy-nilly.

00:25:02.440 The parliaments are not

00:25:03.240 involved anymore.

00:25:04.100 This is the other part

00:25:04.920 of the equation that a

00:25:06.760 lot of people are

00:25:07.240 forgetting.

00:25:07.680 I thought this was a

00:25:08.480 parliamentary democracy.

00:25:10.920 Parliamentary democracy

00:25:11.800 means by its very

00:25:12.860 definition, you go

00:25:14.540 through the parliament

00:25:15.340 for all these things.

00:25:16.740 So it seems to me that

00:25:18.220 the parliament of Canada

00:25:19.180 and the parliaments of

00:25:20.240 all of the other

00:25:21.000 jurisdictions, by the

00:25:22.180 way, there are 14

00:25:22.840 parliaments in Canada,

00:25:24.540 when you include the

00:25:25.360 territories, the three

00:25:26.080 territories, 10

00:25:27.380 provinces and the

00:25:28.120 federal government.

00:25:29.340 These should be open

00:25:30.600 and these should be

00:25:32.340 debating the provisions

00:25:34.400 that the government

00:25:35.600 is suggesting should be

00:25:37.380 brought in to mitigate

00:25:38.820 the virus called the

00:25:40.920 COVID-19.

00:25:42.200 And there should be a

00:25:43.160 full and healthy debate

00:25:44.180 by the representatives of

00:25:45.940 the people.

00:25:46.880 So not only is the

00:25:48.020 charter of rights being

00:25:49.480 violated, but the whole

00:25:51.140 custom convention and

00:25:53.680 parliamentary democracy

00:25:55.100 principles are being

00:25:56.860 much like violated and

00:25:58.980 abused in what is now

00:26:01.580 happening and what has

00:26:02.500 been happening for the

00:26:03.300 last almost two years

00:26:04.440 now.

00:26:05.340 There's a tremendous

00:26:06.780 backlog in the courts

00:26:08.220 of challenges, of

00:26:09.440 everything ranging from

00:26:10.640 individual fines that

00:26:11.960 people have received

00:26:13.080 under lockdown measures

00:26:14.260 to very large programs

00:26:16.000 like hotel quarantine,

00:26:17.920 vaccine mandates, all of 0.98

00:26:19.300 this.

00:26:19.600 But in the cases that

00:26:20.760 have been litigated,

00:26:22.080 courts have, generally

00:26:23.040 speaking, taken a very

00:26:24.640 wide interpretation of

00:26:26.680 the very first section

00:26:27.800 of the charter, which

00:26:28.540 is very familiar

00:26:29.180 certainly to you and

00:26:30.140 and to a lot of

00:26:31.020 Canadians by now that

00:26:32.080 says that all of the

00:26:32.960 other rights you have

00:26:33.860 can be limited by

00:26:35.460 government and I knew

00:26:36.720 that and by the

00:26:37.540 courts and I know that

00:26:38.340 you wrote a letter to

00:26:39.280 premiers about this and

00:26:40.520 you basically said, you

00:26:42.300 know, section one is

00:26:43.280 not protecting you as

00:26:44.380 much as you think it

00:26:45.220 is.

00:26:46.080 Section one says that

00:26:48.040 the federal government or

00:26:49.420 the provinces have to

00:26:52.020 demonstrably justify

00:26:53.840 what they are doing

00:26:55.860 within reasonable

00:26:56.800 limits in a free and

00:26:58.700 democratic society by

00:27:00.400 law.

00:27:01.880 They have not

00:27:03.120 demonstrably justified

00:27:04.840 what they are doing

00:27:06.380 and therefore, in my

00:27:07.880 view, everybody else is

00:27:10.360 being silent on this.

00:27:12.160 Everybody else is being

00:27:13.040 I haven't heard any law

00:27:14.040 societies.

00:27:14.660 I haven't heard any any

00:27:16.020 law professors or

00:27:17.000 political science people.

00:27:18.100 Everybody's going silent.

00:27:19.300 There's a sort of a

00:27:19.940 collective psychosis or

00:27:21.640 amnesia in the country

00:27:23.200 where nobody wants to

00:27:24.300 speak up on this.

00:27:25.760 They have not

00:27:26.540 demonstrably justified.

00:27:27.880 I mean, I can read

00:27:28.540 the words.

00:27:29.600 I don't have to be a

00:27:30.360 constitutional lawyer.

00:27:31.780 I was involved in the

00:27:32.820 constitution making and

00:27:34.320 so I have a fair amount

00:27:35.180 of experience in that

00:27:37.600 over like almost two

00:27:38.900 years when we were

00:27:39.720 negotiating the

00:27:40.700 Constitution Act.

00:27:41.860 So I do have some

00:27:42.540 experience.

00:27:43.560 I do have some

00:27:44.340 knowledge of words and

00:27:45.980 what has put in a

00:27:46.780 constitution.

00:27:47.740 And I've been studying

00:27:48.960 this ever since it was

00:27:49.920 created back in 1981.

00:27:52.260 So I feel I have some

00:27:53.580 authority on this.

00:27:55.760 And therefore, I know

00:27:57.260 what demonstrably

00:27:58.640 justify means.

00:28:00.160 You have to justify

00:28:01.320 demonstrably.

00:28:02.660 In other words, you have

00:28:03.440 to be quite open and

00:28:06.020 transparent and you have

00:28:07.400 to make you have to have

00:28:09.040 great evidence.

00:28:10.540 And what the governments

00:28:11.280 have not done is that

00:28:12.560 they have not allowed to

00:28:13.460 the parliaments or through

00:28:14.740 any hearings competing

00:28:16.980 views on the medical

00:28:18.540 science that is driving

00:28:20.160 these lockdowns and

00:28:21.560 these mandates and so

00:28:22.620 on.

00:28:23.060 And the mere fact that

00:28:23.820 they haven't, that means

00:28:24.760 they have not

00:28:25.600 demonstrably justified the

00:28:27.560 positions they are

00:28:28.340 taking.

00:28:29.000 So in my view, if this

00:28:30.060 ever gets a Supreme

00:28:31.000 Court of Canada, if

00:28:32.120 there's any independence

00:28:32.940 left at all in the

00:28:33.840 judiciary, and that's

00:28:35.160 where it would reside

00:28:35.900 right now, I submit,

00:28:37.860 then it seems to me they

00:28:39.380 would have to rule a lot

00:28:40.860 of these measures to be

00:28:42.060 unconstitutional.

00:28:42.860 Now, they may put in

00:28:43.840 place other measures or

00:28:46.140 say you can do A and you

00:28:47.500 can do B, but you can't

00:28:48.580 do C and D, or we'll put

00:28:50.560 a time frame on this, or

00:28:52.140 you give me more evidence

00:28:53.900 before I make a final

00:28:55.020 decision, right?

00:28:56.460 They could do all of

00:28:57.300 those things.

00:28:58.720 But they, and the other

00:29:00.880 thing I've said to the

00:29:01.720 premiers in a, in a, in

00:29:03.300 a open letter is there is

00:29:05.240 a measure to expedite this

00:29:07.380 through the courts.

00:29:08.520 Nobody's talking about this

00:29:09.660 either.

00:29:10.440 And that is provincial or

00:29:12.800 federal reference.

00:29:13.920 Every government of

00:29:14.800 Canada, provinces, and

00:29:16.720 the federal government can

00:29:17.980 take their measures and

00:29:19.600 refer directly to their

00:29:22.260 highest court.

00:29:23.480 In the case of the

00:29:24.180 provinces, it's their 0.87

00:29:25.220 appeal court.

00:29:26.380 In the case of the

00:29:27.360 federal government, it's

00:29:28.400 the Supreme Court of

00:29:29.040 Canada.

00:29:29.860 And they could ask those

00:29:30.980 courts, is what we are

00:29:32.280 doing following the

00:29:33.660 constitution of this

00:29:34.620 country?

00:29:35.120 Is it following the

00:29:35.980 Charter Rights and 0.98

00:29:36.560 Freedoms?

00:29:37.080 Not one has done it.

00:29:38.480 I've submitted an open

00:29:40.280 letter to all premiers

00:29:41.340 asking them why won't

00:29:42.780 you refer what you're

00:29:44.360 doing to your courts to

00:29:46.200 get a decision so that

00:29:47.280 the people of Canada know

00:29:48.540 you're being

00:29:49.000 constitutional.

00:29:50.080 Not one premier has

00:29:50.900 answered me.

00:29:51.860 Not one premier has

00:29:52.780 answered me.

00:29:54.380 And I find that shocking

00:29:55.720 that not even the

00:29:57.040 courtesy to respond to

00:29:58.260 somebody who was

00:29:59.140 involved in the

00:29:59.740 constitution in the

00:30:00.560 beginning, especially

00:30:01.500 the Charter Rights and

00:30:02.420 Freedoms.

00:30:03.100 So there are measures

00:30:04.080 available.

00:30:05.060 A lot of people are

00:30:05.720 frustrated.

00:30:06.920 But if the, if a

00:30:08.160 province of Canada did

00:30:09.480 what I'm saying and

00:30:10.600 referred this to their

00:30:11.540 appeal court, do you

00:30:12.620 think the appeal court

00:30:13.500 would sit on that?

00:30:14.520 Not on your life.

00:30:15.740 They would know right

00:30:17.180 away as a signal by

00:30:18.520 these governments, they

00:30:19.400 want to know, you know,

00:30:20.840 whether we're

00:30:21.180 constitutional.

00:30:21.980 They would take that up

00:30:22.860 immediately, make an

00:30:24.060 adjudication.

00:30:25.160 Then that province could

00:30:26.160 refer directly to the

00:30:27.220 Supreme Court of

00:30:27.760 Canada.

00:30:28.700 It can go directly to

00:30:29.460 the Supreme Court of

00:30:29.980 Canada.

00:30:30.500 So those two courts

00:30:31.360 could within six months

00:30:32.960 just say, give it an

00:30:34.600 outside of a year, make a

00:30:36.020 decision.

00:30:36.380 Not the three or four

00:30:37.900 years that we're into

00:30:39.080 now with them going

00:30:40.660 through the courts by

00:30:41.480 organizations and

00:30:42.580 individuals and so on

00:30:43.780 because in the regular

00:30:46.520 course of business, it

00:30:47.980 has to go to the trial

00:30:51.040 division of the Supreme

00:30:52.060 Court of a province, then

00:30:53.620 to the appeal division of

00:30:55.240 the Supreme Court of the

00:30:56.160 province, then to the

00:30:57.620 Supreme Court of Canada.

00:30:59.220 So that can be shortened

00:31:00.880 immeasurably, especially

00:31:02.420 if a government initiated

00:31:03.820 it because then the

00:31:05.140 courts would be seized with

00:31:06.180 knowing they need a quick

00:31:07.500 decision.

00:31:08.560 I don't disagree with

00:31:09.860 you, but I think the two

00:31:10.980 issues there are firstly

00:31:12.500 that a lot of provinces

00:31:13.580 know that what they're

00:31:14.920 doing is not

00:31:15.740 constitutional and they

00:31:16.860 don't want to put it

00:31:17.600 through that scrutiny.

00:31:18.980 But also, I have not a

00:31:21.200 lot of optimism that the

00:31:22.900 courts are going to be on

00:31:23.920 the right side of this.

00:31:25.060 And to go back to

00:31:25.820 Section 1 for a moment,

00:31:27.280 we've seen in a number of

00:31:28.860 constitutional charter

00:31:30.680 litigation cases and, you

00:31:32.660 know, even more recently

00:31:33.520 on some of the COVID

00:31:35.020 lockdown-related litigation

00:31:36.600 that, again, courts are

00:31:38.560 taking government at its

00:31:40.440 word that COVID is kind of

00:31:42.200 a trump card that you can

00:31:43.920 use to suspend civil

00:31:45.100 liberties.

00:31:45.400 They're not worried about

00:31:46.400 the inherent constraints of

00:31:48.600 Section 1.

00:31:49.400 So the general question I

00:31:51.300 guess I'll put to you,

00:31:52.140 Brian, is when that was

00:31:53.520 being drafted and when that

00:31:54.780 was being considered, was

00:31:56.360 there a little bit more

00:31:57.920 optimism about how the

00:32:00.000 judiciary would use that

00:32:01.480 power?

00:32:01.840 No question.

00:32:03.760 Nobody.

00:32:04.640 Nobody.

00:32:05.480 And I would say those

00:32:06.260 people who are still alive

00:32:07.260 who were deputy ministers,

00:32:08.960 advisors to the various

00:32:10.160 governments, there's quite a

00:32:10.940 few of them still alive,

00:32:11.700 should be coming out and

00:32:13.040 saying what I'm saying.

00:32:14.160 I don't think there was

00:32:14.820 anybody in that room at the

00:32:16.180 time or in the various

00:32:17.380 rooms of the various

00:32:18.360 delegations who thought that

00:32:20.640 this would happen at this

00:32:22.080 point in time, even in the

00:32:24.180 public emergency so-called.

00:32:27.260 So Section 1 was never

00:32:29.280 meant to be a trump card for

00:32:30.580 what we're seeing now.

00:32:31.960 Well, but it's a

00:32:32.880 protection because it's

00:32:33.900 demonstrably justified and

00:32:35.180 they haven't done that.

00:32:36.020 They're using that, but it

00:32:37.560 cannot be, that's not a

00:32:39.080 valid use of that section.

00:32:41.000 So they're still violating

00:32:42.080 the Constitution.

00:32:43.300 So that's how I would, that's

00:32:44.420 how I interpret it.

00:32:45.840 Yes, they might try to use it

00:32:47.400 as a trump card, but it's a

00:32:48.400 false trump card.

00:32:50.400 It's a false trump card because

00:32:51.740 where is the justification

00:32:53.540 demonstrably made?

00:32:55.440 Nowhere.

00:32:56.340 All they've done is gone ahead

00:32:57.580 with their provisions with

00:32:59.380 no justification in those

00:33:00.680 provisions what they did.

00:33:02.140 And by the way, in Alberta,

00:33:03.440 there's a court case by the

00:33:04.680 Center of Constitutional

00:33:05.960 Freedoms and they've been

00:33:07.080 trying to get the evidence

00:33:08.100 from the Alberta government

00:33:09.180 and the Alberta government

00:33:10.200 has been refraining from

00:33:11.560 providing the evidence, the

00:33:13.000 evidence, by the way, that

00:33:14.140 they were supposed to have

00:33:15.340 for the decisions they made a

00:33:17.100 year and a half ago.

00:33:18.520 So to say they don't have it

00:33:20.260 or it's going to take us time

00:33:21.580 to prepare it, is absolutely

00:33:23.200 specious and doesn't pass

00:33:25.340 muster.

00:33:26.260 So that's a good example of one

00:33:28.260 government that's very afraid

00:33:29.320 to come forward with the

00:33:30.740 evidence.

00:33:32.180 Evidence has not been presented

00:33:33.660 to justify what the

00:33:35.240 governments are doing.

00:33:36.260 And they have that obligation

00:33:37.620 under Section 1 to do so.

00:33:40.800 You've been a premier.

00:33:42.500 You understand the political

00:33:44.080 implications of your actions.

00:33:45.660 And you also understand, of

00:33:46.940 course, working within the

00:33:48.320 bureaucracy and having some

00:33:49.680 forces in government and in

00:33:51.380 deputy ministers that want to

00:33:52.980 push and pull you every which

00:33:54.180 way.

00:33:54.820 But a lot of these premiers,

00:33:56.380 you know, it seems like

00:33:57.220 they're listening to the

00:33:58.820 public health experts that

00:34:00.220 they cite.

00:34:01.340 And a lot of them are only

00:34:02.780 interested in lockdowns.

00:34:04.040 They're not interested in

00:34:05.380 exploring the economic

00:34:06.520 implications, the civil

00:34:07.840 liberties implications and

00:34:09.400 all of these other things.

00:34:10.560 And I guess I'm just curious

00:34:12.040 why you think a lot of these

00:34:13.640 premiers have narrowed their

00:34:15.320 focus so much to only really

00:34:17.620 pull advice from one source

00:34:19.420 and one source only as

00:34:20.700 they're dropping these

00:34:21.840 measures.

00:34:22.540 I find it very disturbing.

00:34:25.820 Obviously, one of the

00:34:27.400 answers is, is very poor

00:34:28.880 leadership in this country

00:34:29.800 right now.

00:34:30.720 Obviously, leaders are to

00:34:32.480 take advice.

00:34:33.160 But after taking advice,

00:34:34.540 then they're to go away and

00:34:35.640 make up their own minds, both

00:34:37.120 the cabinet and the ministers

00:34:38.660 and the premier or prime

00:34:40.260 minister.

00:34:40.680 That doesn't look like it's

00:34:41.980 happening now.

00:34:42.800 But it's blatant, Andrew.

00:34:44.400 I mean, there's the Great

00:34:45.100 Barrington Declaration.

00:34:46.300 How long has that been out

00:34:47.260 there?

00:34:47.560 And they tried to malign the

00:34:49.020 three greatest experts in the

00:34:51.380 world who signed that

00:34:52.580 Barrington Declaration, saying

00:34:54.460 that these lockdowns are not

00:34:55.580 going to work.

00:34:57.020 And, you know, some tens of

00:34:58.420 thousands of doctors and

00:35:00.600 research scientists around the

00:35:02.300 world.

00:35:02.680 That's being completely

00:35:04.240 ignored.

00:35:05.260 So it's not only on the

00:35:06.540 narrow scale, but on the

00:35:08.440 broader scale.

00:35:09.480 They're not even taking that

00:35:10.700 into consideration.

00:35:11.360 So once again, I come back to

00:35:14.180 number one, it's a lack of

00:35:15.120 leadership.

00:35:15.540 There's no question about it

00:35:16.580 that most of the leaders of

00:35:17.600 this country today have failed

00:35:19.520 the test of leadership, have

00:35:21.220 failed the test of their

00:35:22.240 premiership, have failed the

00:35:23.800 test of their prime

00:35:24.540 ministership.

00:35:25.520 And it comes down now,

00:35:26.700 unfortunately, to civil society,

00:35:29.140 comes down to you and me and

00:35:30.820 others.

00:35:31.100 And thank you for giving me this

00:35:32.420 opportunity to articulate an

00:35:34.400 alternative view, not to be

00:35:36.880 against vaccines, generally

00:35:40.500 speaking, but be against one

00:35:42.440 that has not proven its worth

00:35:44.480 in any testing because it's

00:35:46.380 still experimental and is

00:35:48.080 damaging tens of killing

00:35:49.440 tens of thousands of people

00:35:51.520 according to the government

00:35:52.500 records themselves, both in the

00:35:54.200 United States and Europe.

00:35:55.780 And therefore, we should be

00:35:57.220 far more cautious and we

00:35:58.660 should be taking a broader

00:36:00.000 view of the guidance and

00:36:02.120 expertise that we're supposed

00:36:04.780 to do as good leaders.

00:36:06.340 And we're not doing that.

00:36:07.480 And so I think that there's a

00:36:08.420 failure of leadership, number

00:36:09.980 one, but there's also failure

00:36:11.220 by civic society, by civil

00:36:14.100 society, by our business

00:36:15.600 leaders, by our union

00:36:16.600 leaders, by our academic

00:36:17.720 leaders to come forward.

00:36:20.760 And the other problem with

00:36:21.780 that is our democracy has

00:36:23.720 been failing for quite some

00:36:24.660 time.

00:36:25.400 This is a catalyst that sort

00:36:27.500 of manifests it more open

00:36:29.940 so more people see it.

00:36:31.380 OK, it's been failing for a

00:36:32.840 long while, especially since

00:36:34.320 Pierre Elliott Trudeau, senior,

00:36:35.980 when he started to develop a

00:36:37.680 bigger prime minister's office.

00:36:39.220 The power has been moving from

00:36:40.600 the MPs.

00:36:41.560 The power has been moving from

00:36:42.840 the parliament.

00:36:44.040 Parliament went, first of all,

00:36:45.520 to the cabinet with the prime

00:36:47.140 minister.

00:36:47.500 Now it's gone all the way to the

00:36:48.660 prime minister.

00:36:49.600 And there's a book out that

00:36:50.660 people should read by Donald

00:36:53.020 Savoy entitled Democracy in

00:36:57.380 Canada, the Disintegration of 0.91

00:36:59.020 Our Institutions.

00:36:59.920 And he tracks, he tracks this

00:37:02.900 evolution of the diminution of

00:37:06.460 power from the parliament to

00:37:08.740 the prime minister's office over

00:37:10.120 time.

00:37:10.900 And so we have been gradually

00:37:12.000 losing our democracy.

00:37:13.720 And this so-called pandemic, this

00:37:15.660 virus has manifested all of the

00:37:19.520 scars that we allowed to happen

00:37:22.740 over the last three or four

00:37:23.880 decades, sadly.

00:37:25.680 And so there's a real leadership

00:37:26.960 vacuum, not only at the political

00:37:28.360 level, but at the academic

00:37:29.980 business and unionally level.

00:37:32.220 In other words, our civic society

00:37:33.520 is broken.

00:37:34.340 And we need to fix it soon in

00:37:36.720 order to get back the democracy

00:37:38.700 that we're losing now every day.

00:37:41.400 Just as we close here, and you

00:37:44.060 look back, as I mentioned, on

00:37:45.640 almost 40 years of the Charter of

00:37:47.480 Rights and Freedoms and still a 0.55

00:37:48.940 country that has devolved into the

00:37:51.020 things you and I have been

00:37:51.760 chatting about for the time we've

00:37:53.320 been discussing things.

00:37:55.140 Do you feel that the Charter is

00:37:57.380 still the tool it was intended to

00:37:59.580 be, or do you feel looking back

00:38:01.280 like there was something missing

00:38:02.960 from it?

00:38:04.080 No, I don't think there's

00:38:04.740 anything missing from it.

00:38:05.840 All of the elements are there.

00:38:07.480 Remember, we had the Bill of

00:38:08.880 Rights before the Charter.

00:38:09.960 John Diefenbaker introduced the

00:38:11.260 Bill of Rights.

00:38:12.240 But we still do, technically.

00:38:14.520 Well, it is as a federal law, but

00:38:15.940 the whole idea of the Charter was

00:38:17.820 to put it in the Constitution so it

00:38:19.360 would be further away from being

00:38:21.060 able to be changed.

00:38:23.660 That was the whole idea.

00:38:25.020 We already had a Charter.

00:38:27.500 All the ideas that are in the

00:38:28.920 Charter were in the Bill of Rights 0.99

00:38:30.120 that Mr. Diefenbaker passed.

00:38:31.380 But it was a federal act of the

00:38:32.500 Parliament and therefore was

00:38:33.780 subject to change by any

00:38:34.820 majority of government that came

00:38:35.940 in.

00:38:36.440 Could be changed very easily.

00:38:37.860 But by putting it in the

00:38:38.980 Constitution, we all thought,

00:38:41.000 everybody thought, that therefore

00:38:42.640 it's very difficult to change now

00:38:44.660 and therefore we have our rights

00:38:46.620 and freedoms protected.

00:38:47.780 Only to find out today that we

00:38:49.560 don't.

00:38:49.860 Well, on that grim note, I guess

00:38:53.920 it shows that, as you mentioned,

00:38:55.340 we have to, in civil society, be

00:38:56.860 the ones to stand up for our

00:38:58.000 freedoms first and foremost.

00:38:59.760 Former Newfoundland Premier

00:39:01.220 Brian Peckford, thank you so much,

00:39:02.840 sir, for joining me.

00:39:03.520 It's a pleasure to speak with you.

00:39:05.380 Andrew, it's a pleasure to speak

00:39:06.380 to you.

00:39:06.740 Thank you very much.

00:39:08.340 That was former Newfoundland Premier

00:39:10.460 Brian Peckford.

00:39:11.480 That's it for me.

00:39:12.140 I can't add anything after that

00:39:13.760 discussion, nor would I even want

00:39:15.900 to.

00:39:16.080 We'll definitely have to get him back

00:39:17.320 on the show, certainly for the

00:39:19.000 40th anniversary of the Charter,

00:39:20.640 but I'd say even before then as

00:39:22.220 well.

00:39:22.420 That was fantastic.

00:39:23.740 We have to end things here.

00:39:24.940 My thanks to all of you for

00:39:26.240 tuning in to Canada's most

00:39:27.860 irreverent talk show.

00:39:29.040 You're listening to The Andrew

00:39:30.360 Lawton Show here on True North.

00:39:31.800 Thank you, God bless, and good

00:39:33.180 day.

00:39:34.100 Thanks for listening to The Andrew

00:39:35.500 Lawton Show.

00:39:36.340 Support the program by donating

00:39:37.740 to True North at www.tnc.nons.

Juno News - October 19, 2021

Saskatchewan Health Authority is spreading COVID misinformation

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript