Juno News - October 19, 2021


Saskatchewan Health Authority is spreading COVID misinformation


Episode Stats

Length

39 minutes

Words per Minute

176.25719

Word Count

6,996

Sentence Count

360


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:06.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.920 Coming up, Saskatchewan spreads COVID misinformation,
00:00:16.540 CBC goes full steam ahead on climate alarmism,
00:00:20.020 and one of the architects of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms
00:00:22.940 shakes his head at what's become of Canada.
00:00:24.780 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:32.620 Hello and welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:00:35.660 This is Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show, Tuesday, October 19th, 2021.
00:00:40.880 One day after the Great Alberta Equalization Referendum,
00:00:45.520 and it's a lot like an American presidential election
00:00:48.200 in that we still don't actually know the results.
00:00:52.120 We have a sense of them, and generally speaking,
00:00:55.360 it looks like anywhere from 58% to 60% of people
00:00:59.440 voted in favor of taking equalization out of the Constitution.
00:01:04.240 This is the mechanism by which Alberta's hard-earned money
00:01:07.540 goes to provinces that are not as wealthy,
00:01:09.880 like Atlantic Canada and notably Quebec.
00:01:13.620 Here's the thing, though.
00:01:14.820 It's non-binding.
00:01:16.220 We've talked about this on the show in the past.
00:01:18.200 The federal government doesn't look at the referendum and say,
00:01:20.640 oh, well, okay, you Albertans voted.
00:01:22.760 I guess the Constitution changes.
00:01:24.420 No, there still is this very complex and convoluted formula,
00:01:27.920 but what those pursuing this referendum have been banking on
00:01:31.880 is that the federal government will have
00:01:33.660 a moral and political and legal duty
00:01:36.660 to negotiating good faith with the province.
00:01:39.880 This is a duty that people think comes from
00:01:42.100 a Supreme Court decision about a Quebec secession referendum,
00:01:45.560 that if people in a province are that concerned about something,
00:01:49.600 that they vote in favor of it in a referendum,
00:01:52.780 and it has to do with independence,
00:01:54.440 the federal government has to play ball.
00:01:56.740 So I am not ignoring this.
00:01:58.480 We actually did at True North a live broadcast
00:02:00.700 delving into this and covering the results in real time
00:02:03.720 as they were coming in last night.
00:02:05.400 The nature of this thing, however,
00:02:07.100 is that the provincial results that come from all municipalities,
00:02:10.660 because it was the communities that were running this,
00:02:13.580 are not going to become available for another week.
00:02:16.000 So we'll have a lot more to break down once we get the full numbers,
00:02:18.920 but suffice it to say,
00:02:20.060 it looks like Albertans had their say
00:02:21.620 and are clearly dissatisfied with the status quo
00:02:24.560 as far as equalization.
00:02:26.400 And I know that a big part of the question now will be,
00:02:29.220 how much can we extrapolate from that?
00:02:31.560 Is this just Albertans looking and saying,
00:02:33.520 yeah, I don't like how much money goes to Quebec,
00:02:35.560 or is it a broader discontent with Confederation?
00:02:39.180 Which I think it probably is.
00:02:41.580 I think it probably is from a lot of the people I've spoken to.
00:02:44.500 So that's something we'll be paying close attention to
00:02:47.220 in the days, weeks, and let's be real,
00:02:49.360 probably months and years to come.
00:02:51.780 I want to move a province east though
00:02:53.540 and talk about Saskatchewan for a couple of moments.
00:02:56.240 A couple of standout examples of COVID lunacy in Saskatchewan,
00:03:01.220 which is, by the way, a lovely province.
00:03:03.000 I've been there on a few occasions
00:03:04.220 and I've never had a bad experience there.
00:03:07.020 The Saskatchewan Health Authority posted on Twitter yesterday
00:03:10.620 in an effort to get young people vaccinated
00:03:14.400 because the Canadian government had posted this thing
00:03:17.020 saying, I'm young and healthy, should I still get COVID?
00:03:19.440 And they say, yeah, we should definitely
00:03:21.000 have you get vaccinated no matter how young
00:03:23.120 and spry and vibrant you are.
00:03:24.960 No one says spry when you're talking about young people.
00:03:26.940 Anyway, I guess I just did.
00:03:28.560 And then the Saskatchewan Health Authority retweeted it
00:03:31.540 and says, your risk from COVID-19
00:03:34.620 is not determined by age, fitness level, or community.
00:03:38.940 Your risk is determined by vaccine status.
00:03:43.020 78% of all new cases and hospitalizations
00:03:46.140 in Saskatchewan in September were unvaccinated
00:03:48.840 or partially vaccinated people.
00:03:50.900 So I don't want to do the whole Zapruder film here
00:03:54.120 and like, just go like frame by frame
00:03:56.000 or in this case, word by word
00:03:57.660 and break this down to the point
00:03:59.880 where you just have no tolerance to look at a tweet
00:04:02.460 or look at anything from the province of Saskatchewan
00:04:04.980 ever again.
00:04:05.900 But I do want to parse this a little bit
00:04:07.660 because they say in no uncertain terms,
00:04:10.300 your risk from COVID is not determined
00:04:13.000 by age, fitness level, or community.
00:04:16.020 We know this is absolutely untrue.
00:04:18.700 Age has a very, very key bearing
00:04:22.560 on how sick you're likely to get,
00:04:25.060 especially when it comes down to your general health,
00:04:28.300 which is definitely connected to fitness level.
00:04:31.920 So a young, vibrant, active, fit, 20-something
00:04:36.420 is at significantly lower risk
00:04:40.440 than an unfit older person with comorbidities galore.
00:04:45.520 This is, I mean, this is one of the first things
00:04:48.100 we learned about COVID before a lot of the other things
00:04:50.680 is that it was disproportionately affecting the elderly
00:04:53.540 because they have weakened immune systems
00:04:55.220 because they're more likely to have comorbidities
00:04:57.840 and so on.
00:04:58.940 Now, this is not saying that young people
00:05:00.860 shouldn't get vaccinated.
00:05:02.580 I'm a firm believer in people doing whatever they want,
00:05:05.400 protecting themselves.
00:05:06.660 And let's be real, a lot of young people
00:05:08.140 are going to look at vaccine passports
00:05:09.640 in provinces like Alberta, Saskatchewan, and elsewhere
00:05:12.380 and say, well, this is the only way I can do
00:05:14.480 all the social things I want to do.
00:05:15.940 So this is not about telling people
00:05:18.380 what they should or shouldn't do.
00:05:19.800 It's simply saying that if you're going to have
00:05:21.560 this discussion, let's at least have it honestly.
00:05:25.180 What Saskatchewan is doing is blatantly
00:05:27.680 and brazenly lying about COVID risks
00:05:31.460 as they work to bump up their vaccine uptake,
00:05:34.500 specifically in that younger demographic.
00:05:37.440 And that PHAC line is not saying it.
00:05:39.500 They're saying that the COVID vaccine
00:05:40.680 helps protect you from getting sick.
00:05:43.180 Even if you're young, healthy, and fit,
00:05:45.200 the vaccine will give your body a layer of protection
00:05:47.400 that it didn't have.
00:05:48.360 Now, that at least is an honest thing.
00:05:50.200 If you believe the vaccine is protecting you
00:05:52.300 and making you less symptomatic
00:05:54.360 and less likely to get sick,
00:05:55.780 that's true whether you're young, healthy,
00:05:57.840 or older and unhealthy,
00:05:59.380 or for that matter, younger and unhealthy.
00:06:01.460 But I mean, we'll talk about that in just a moment.
00:06:04.100 But the Saskatchewan line here,
00:06:06.740 that nothing has any bearing
00:06:08.860 on how sick you're going to get,
00:06:10.280 except whether you're vaccinated or not.
00:06:11.800 And the tweet itself tends to undermine that point
00:06:15.240 because there still are, as they say here,
00:06:17.560 22% of these cases and hospitalizations
00:06:20.660 that do not fit into that category.
00:06:24.300 And by the way, they're lumping in this
00:06:26.380 cases and hospitalizations in September.
00:06:30.420 Cases and hospitalizations are very different things.
00:06:33.820 Cases matter less and less.
00:06:36.240 When you're talking about populations
00:06:39.180 that are not getting sick,
00:06:41.160 that are not going into the ICU,
00:06:42.760 that are not experiencing major symptoms,
00:06:45.160 if you have COVID and it to you feels like
00:06:47.840 you've got the sniffles or a sore throat,
00:06:49.900 I wouldn't consider that case a sign
00:06:52.260 of anything all that bad.
00:06:53.920 I mean, in a lot of cases,
00:06:55.120 and look, I know people have very different beliefs
00:06:57.460 on the efficacy of the vaccine.
00:06:59.160 I'm vaccinated.
00:07:00.140 The reason I got vaccinated
00:07:01.480 is because I was confident
00:07:03.260 that if I was going to get it,
00:07:05.520 I wanted to reduce the burden
00:07:07.560 that I would face as far as symptoms go.
00:07:10.260 And that was a decision that I made.
00:07:12.000 You can make your own decisions,
00:07:13.320 but I'm not arguing the science here.
00:07:15.880 I'm simply pointing out
00:07:17.280 that all the things we know about this
00:07:19.820 are being completely ripped up
00:07:22.480 when Saskatchewan is using
00:07:24.340 such disingenuous language
00:07:25.940 to promote vaccination.
00:07:27.040 And very critical in the question of choice
00:07:31.720 is informed consent.
00:07:34.460 And you become less and less informed
00:07:36.960 when this is what passes
00:07:38.400 for the government messaging surrounding COVID.
00:07:40.800 When the government is lying,
00:07:43.020 blatantly lying,
00:07:44.020 or just to give the benefit of the doubt,
00:07:46.060 is so woefully incompetent,
00:07:47.860 they can't clearly communicate something.
00:07:49.600 So whether they want to blame it
00:07:50.940 on malice or incompetence,
00:07:52.160 I'll leave up to them.
00:07:52.920 But I think this is fairly dishonest.
00:07:54.700 And it becomes more and more difficult
00:07:56.900 for anyone to know what to believe
00:07:58.640 or to trust the so-called
00:08:01.020 official public health experts
00:08:03.060 when they're saying that,
00:08:05.400 yeah, your age, your health,
00:08:06.480 your fitness level have no bearing.
00:08:07.900 I mean, remember how Alberta
00:08:09.220 just had to walk back
00:08:10.860 them claiming that a 14-year-old boy
00:08:13.420 had died of COVID
00:08:14.260 when in actuality,
00:08:15.520 as confirmed by his own sister,
00:08:18.480 he died of brain cancer
00:08:19.740 and just happened to test positive for COVID
00:08:21.980 as he was on his deathbed.
00:08:23.400 That doesn't make the death
00:08:24.900 any less tragic.
00:08:26.920 And the fact that this was
00:08:28.200 a politicized passing
00:08:29.740 was quite shameful
00:08:31.160 because this family was grieving
00:08:32.660 and all of a sudden
00:08:33.760 they were forced to engage
00:08:35.100 in what was really a political debate
00:08:37.040 because the only reason
00:08:38.760 you would count a case like that
00:08:40.600 as a COVID case
00:08:42.640 is if you're trying to inadvertently
00:08:45.700 or intentionally boost your numbers
00:08:47.980 or if you just don't care
00:08:49.740 about the distinction.
00:08:50.660 But even then,
00:08:51.180 you have to ask the question
00:08:52.260 of why do these governments not care?
00:08:54.800 Why do they not care
00:08:55.880 about getting it right?
00:08:58.500 Because anytime governments
00:08:59.820 point to someone
00:09:00.700 who is in that demographic,
00:09:02.420 you don't expect to die of COVID.
00:09:04.560 Anytime they point to someone there,
00:09:06.100 it's meant to be jarring.
00:09:08.040 It's meant to be jarring.
00:09:09.220 It's meant to make people think,
00:09:10.780 oh, well, I mean, yeah,
00:09:11.860 if it happened to a 14-year-old boy,
00:09:13.360 maybe I was wrong to think
00:09:14.640 that this is a disease
00:09:15.760 that only helps certain people.
00:09:17.120 But the whole thing is that
00:09:19.580 as Ben Shapiro says,
00:09:20.660 facts don't care about your feelings,
00:09:22.640 your political agenda,
00:09:23.900 your narrative,
00:09:24.780 the direction you want
00:09:25.860 to take these things.
00:09:26.780 It is completely disconnected
00:09:29.140 from the facts and the science
00:09:31.500 on which we're supposed
00:09:32.420 to be relying
00:09:33.360 when it comes to understanding
00:09:35.680 what's happening
00:09:36.360 in the course of this pandemic.
00:09:38.080 And we don't get to concoct
00:09:40.820 a risk that by and large
00:09:42.780 isn't there for certain demographics
00:09:44.700 and certain populations
00:09:45.820 just because we want to achieve
00:09:48.100 this public health priority
00:09:49.540 that the government has set out
00:09:50.840 of 100% vaccine uptake
00:09:53.080 and zero cases.
00:09:54.280 We're never going to get to zero cases.
00:09:56.200 Anyone who builds a policy around that
00:09:58.100 is just so woefully mistaken
00:10:00.060 that it is even possible.
00:10:02.620 But this is coming from Saskatchewan,
00:10:04.660 which by the way,
00:10:05.340 is not a standout example
00:10:06.480 of how to handle this.
00:10:07.440 Just on Thursday,
00:10:09.220 and I didn't see it until Saturday,
00:10:11.360 the Saskatchewan police published,
00:10:13.280 I'm not going to show them here
00:10:14.360 because I don't want
00:10:15.260 to contribute to this,
00:10:16.120 but they showed 15 pictures
00:10:17.780 of people that looked like
00:10:19.220 they were screenshots
00:10:20.180 from live streams
00:10:22.140 or, you know,
00:10:23.260 they've zoomed into the background
00:10:24.680 of a photo that someone posted
00:10:26.140 on social media
00:10:27.360 or whatever it was.
00:10:29.080 But 15 people
00:10:30.840 who are wanted in connection
00:10:33.200 with a public health investigation
00:10:35.500 that the Saskatchewan police service
00:10:37.420 is undertaking.
00:10:38.800 And that investigation
00:10:40.120 is into people
00:10:41.140 that supposedly violated
00:10:42.720 public health orders
00:10:43.880 at Maxime Bernier's
00:10:45.880 and the People's Party of Canada's
00:10:47.580 Victory Night Party
00:10:48.820 in Saskatoon
00:10:49.760 or Election Night Party
00:10:50.720 in Saskatoon
00:10:51.480 on September 20th.
00:10:53.400 They call them victory parties,
00:10:54.660 even if you lose the election,
00:10:56.620 which is what happened
00:10:57.440 with the PPC.
00:10:58.100 But the reality is
00:11:00.500 the PPC people,
00:11:03.140 these supporters,
00:11:04.020 are now being sought out
00:11:05.740 by the police,
00:11:07.260 which you want to identify them
00:11:08.800 to, I don't know,
00:11:09.820 serve them with a ticket
00:11:10.940 for not wearing a mask
00:11:12.180 or not social distancing.
00:11:13.520 I don't know.
00:11:13.940 It doesn't say
00:11:14.740 what the offense is.
00:11:16.500 But I want to go into
00:11:17.340 this police release
00:11:18.400 from Saskatoon here.
00:11:20.140 They say that
00:11:21.380 the public health enforcement
00:11:23.320 oftentimes is conducted
00:11:25.900 after the fact.
00:11:28.060 This is, I think,
00:11:28.760 quite fascinating.
00:11:30.580 Enforcement is not
00:11:31.820 always visible
00:11:32.640 and largely occurs
00:11:34.080 after the incident.
00:11:35.520 In this case,
00:11:36.380 the investigation
00:11:37.020 into the event
00:11:37.860 of September 20th
00:11:38.800 has at this time
00:11:39.820 required more than
00:11:41.340 160 hours
00:11:43.300 of investigative time.
00:11:46.960 160 hours.
00:11:48.760 Now, I said in my column
00:11:50.880 on this,
00:11:51.300 I don't know if
00:11:52.220 we're talking about
00:11:53.520 one guy that was
00:11:55.060 working around the
00:11:55.820 clocks in September 20th
00:11:57.120 or maybe 160 officers
00:11:59.060 that each just put in an hour.
00:12:00.700 Who knows what
00:12:01.140 the breakdown is?
00:12:01.860 But 160 investigative hours
00:12:04.800 of well-paid police officers
00:12:07.940 to try to track down
00:12:09.880 a handful of unmasked
00:12:11.360 PPC supporters
00:12:12.220 from an event
00:12:12.780 a couple of weeks ago
00:12:13.640 that has had no issues
00:12:15.440 attached to it
00:12:16.200 so far as I can tell.
00:12:17.760 So is this really
00:12:19.320 the best use of time?
00:12:20.300 Is the pandemic
00:12:21.180 that under control
00:12:22.280 that we can just start
00:12:23.060 going after people
00:12:24.060 at an election night party?
00:12:25.340 Is there that little crime
00:12:27.680 in Saskatoon
00:12:29.220 or in Saskatchewan
00:12:30.320 that this is where
00:12:31.380 we're devoting
00:12:32.000 our law enforcement efforts?
00:12:33.720 Now, one of the issues here
00:12:34.920 is that oftentimes
00:12:35.580 these are not individual.
00:12:37.240 In fact, I'd say usually
00:12:38.120 they aren't individual
00:12:38.880 police officers
00:12:39.700 that decide
00:12:40.400 they want to be vindictive
00:12:41.840 about these people.
00:12:42.720 Throughout the lockdown,
00:12:43.720 I've heard from
00:12:44.500 a great many police officers
00:12:45.760 that want nothing to do
00:12:47.320 with the heavy-handed enforcement
00:12:49.340 that's being foisted
00:12:50.380 upon them by the government
00:12:52.320 and by some of the overseers
00:12:54.140 of police.
00:12:55.020 I actually heard
00:12:55.840 from a couple of Saskatoon,
00:12:57.320 specifically Saskatoon
00:12:58.560 police officers
00:12:59.700 that have said,
00:13:00.940 yeah, we want nothing
00:13:02.000 to do with this.
00:13:02.460 And one of them said
00:13:03.300 that they're actually embarrassed.
00:13:05.800 Their colleagues
00:13:06.340 and them are embarrassed
00:13:07.220 that this is what
00:13:08.460 the police service
00:13:09.200 has decided
00:13:09.920 as an organization to do.
00:13:13.100 So all of this is to say
00:13:14.880 I'm not blaming
00:13:15.740 individual police officers.
00:13:17.160 In fact,
00:13:17.600 if I were one of the officers there,
00:13:19.160 I'd hope that at the end of it,
00:13:20.140 they say, oh yeah, you know what?
00:13:21.500 We looked hard.
00:13:22.240 These 15 people,
00:13:23.180 they're just ghosts in the wind.
00:13:24.500 We have no idea who they are.
00:13:26.000 We'll never track them down.
00:13:27.120 This is going to be
00:13:27.560 an unsolved crime.
00:13:28.720 We'll put it on the cold case
00:13:29.920 and, you know,
00:13:30.460 40 years later
00:13:31.240 when some investigator
00:13:32.120 is flipping through
00:13:32.740 the cold cases,
00:13:33.800 they'll see unsolved murder,
00:13:35.300 unsolved rape,
00:13:36.400 serial killer.
00:13:37.740 Oh, who are these 15 people
00:13:39.160 at that PPC part?
00:13:40.160 Well, you know,
00:13:40.720 let's track them down now
00:13:41.680 and it will become a great story.
00:13:43.360 They'll make a CBC feature
00:13:45.060 on it someday.
00:13:46.180 But the reality is
00:13:47.340 this is now
00:13:47.900 what policing is about.
00:13:48.980 And they say there's a backlog.
00:13:50.680 They do this all after the fact.
00:13:52.480 It's not even about preventing
00:13:53.780 these issues
00:13:55.060 from taking place
00:13:56.000 in the moment.
00:13:56.720 It's about going after the fact
00:13:58.380 and punitively trying
00:13:59.760 to hunt people down
00:14:00.640 that might have been
00:14:01.140 unmasked in public.
00:14:02.220 This is aligning
00:14:03.380 with what I shared last week
00:14:04.700 about the COVID snitch portals
00:14:06.700 that Saskatchewan
00:14:08.060 and Manitoba
00:14:08.900 and some other provinces have.
00:14:10.360 I think Quebec as well.
00:14:11.720 This is what it's now
00:14:12.860 come down to.
00:14:14.140 So no surprise
00:14:15.480 that Saskatchewan
00:14:16.300 is telling people
00:14:17.000 no matter what,
00:14:17.580 no matter who you are,
00:14:18.700 your health,
00:14:19.360 your age,
00:14:19.840 none of that matters.
00:14:20.880 You're going to get sick
00:14:21.680 and you're going to end up
00:14:22.260 in the hospital.
00:14:23.120 And they're also the same people
00:14:24.340 that are trying to hunt down
00:14:25.620 the unmasked
00:14:26.460 and using 160 police hours,
00:14:29.400 160 investigative hours
00:14:31.680 to do it.
00:14:32.620 We've got to take
00:14:33.400 a quick break.
00:14:34.140 When we come back,
00:14:34.780 more of the Andrew Lawton Show
00:14:36.160 here on True North.
00:14:37.280 Stay tuned.
00:14:39.920 You're tuned in
00:14:40.800 to the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:14:44.320 Welcome back
00:14:45.180 to the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:14:46.800 Coming up in just
00:14:48.020 a couple of weeks
00:14:48.820 is this massive conference
00:14:50.360 in Glasgow, Scotland
00:14:51.940 in the United Kingdom
00:14:52.920 on climate change.
00:14:54.560 It's the sequel
00:14:55.420 to the Paris conference,
00:14:56.860 COP26,
00:14:58.120 the big climate conference
00:14:59.280 that all of these people
00:15:00.680 around the world,
00:15:01.540 including from Canada,
00:15:02.720 are proving how much
00:15:04.040 they want to rain
00:15:05.420 in carbon emissions
00:15:06.500 that they all fly
00:15:07.860 to one place
00:15:09.060 and have a big old party
00:15:10.560 and talk for weeks
00:15:11.680 and weeks and weeks
00:15:12.400 about all these things
00:15:13.540 they should do
00:15:14.120 that don't really affect them
00:15:15.860 with their private jets
00:15:17.700 and government entourages,
00:15:19.260 but affect the rest of us
00:15:20.280 who have to pay carbon taxes
00:15:22.040 and are told to live
00:15:23.260 without X, Y, and Z.
00:15:25.340 Well, 30,000 of them
00:15:26.620 are going to be in Glasgow.
00:15:27.840 And this is something
00:15:28.860 that we were actually
00:15:29.740 at True North
00:15:30.360 hoping to cover.
00:15:32.280 And oddly,
00:15:32.980 the United Nations
00:15:33.800 who puts on this conference
00:15:35.420 wasn't too keen
00:15:36.300 on having independent
00:15:37.460 journalists there.
00:15:38.260 So we'll be covering it
00:15:39.780 from afar
00:15:40.580 with whatever we are able
00:15:41.940 to pull out
00:15:43.080 of this conference.
00:15:44.560 But CBC was able
00:15:45.740 to get full access.
00:15:47.420 CBC is sending
00:15:48.300 a whole team to Glasgow
00:15:49.620 to cover this.
00:15:51.040 And I wanted to share
00:15:51.820 with you on the eve
00:15:53.140 of this summit
00:15:53.820 a post that was published
00:15:55.180 on CBC's news website
00:15:56.820 by its editor-in-chief
00:15:58.440 Brody Fenlon
00:15:59.440 about how CBC
00:16:00.820 is going all in
00:16:01.980 on climate change,
00:16:03.300 not just throughout Glasgow,
00:16:05.000 but in general
00:16:05.820 in its coverage.
00:16:06.620 The article is titled
00:16:08.860 The Planet is Changing
00:16:10.440 So Will Our Journalism.
00:16:12.440 The subtitle
00:16:13.180 CBC News
00:16:14.340 Commits to Doing
00:16:15.160 Even More
00:16:16.100 Climate Change Journalism.
00:16:18.820 Now,
00:16:19.260 climate change journalism
00:16:20.540 is this emerging field.
00:16:22.460 You have
00:16:22.840 many media outlets
00:16:24.060 including in Canada
00:16:24.980 that get grant money,
00:16:26.520 a big bucks enterprise
00:16:28.020 to hire reporters
00:16:29.920 just to focus
00:16:30.940 on climate change.
00:16:32.120 A lot of these
00:16:33.040 are activists.
00:16:34.260 They are reporting
00:16:34.940 on this through the lens
00:16:36.060 that they've already
00:16:37.360 really decided
00:16:38.480 what the story is.
00:16:40.800 And ultimately,
00:16:41.860 these are the types
00:16:42.760 of journalists
00:16:43.320 that we're going to see
00:16:44.300 in this program.
00:16:45.720 Now,
00:16:45.940 CBC says,
00:16:46.840 yeah,
00:16:47.020 climate change
00:16:47.560 is not just about
00:16:48.180 the environment.
00:16:48.880 It's about health,
00:16:49.520 the economy,
00:16:50.220 jobs,
00:16:50.920 energy,
00:16:51.500 food,
00:16:51.880 water,
00:16:52.320 security,
00:16:52.900 geopolitics,
00:16:53.720 justice,
00:16:54.320 and equity.
00:16:55.880 No sector
00:16:56.680 will be spared
00:16:57.700 its impact.
00:16:59.360 Climate change
00:16:59.920 will define
00:17:00.500 every aspect
00:17:01.340 of our lives
00:17:02.040 and those
00:17:02.920 of generations
00:17:03.820 to come.
00:17:05.800 This is not
00:17:06.960 a neutral,
00:17:08.400 objective approach
00:17:09.600 to climate change.
00:17:10.640 What they're saying
00:17:11.660 there is the
00:17:12.460 alarmist position.
00:17:13.720 That's a very
00:17:14.260 subjective position.
00:17:15.280 You can say
00:17:15.680 it's an important
00:17:16.580 political issue.
00:17:17.480 You can say
00:17:17.920 it's broader
00:17:18.620 than just the environment.
00:17:19.860 Sure.
00:17:20.360 But what they're saying
00:17:21.280 there is that
00:17:21.700 they're going
00:17:22.140 whole hog
00:17:22.640 into the
00:17:23.180 alarmist narrative
00:17:24.340 that this is
00:17:25.660 this growing
00:17:26.320 and existential threat
00:17:27.660 that will kill us all
00:17:29.080 if it's not reined in.
00:17:30.420 And the article
00:17:31.500 goes on.
00:17:32.780 We commit
00:17:33.360 to doing
00:17:34.000 even more,
00:17:35.200 Brody Fenlon writes.
00:17:36.400 They're going
00:17:36.680 to launch
00:17:37.000 a new banner
00:17:37.540 called
00:17:37.860 Our Changing Planet.
00:17:39.060 They're going
00:17:39.240 to make
00:17:39.480 climate change
00:17:40.280 a significant
00:17:41.000 focus of journalism
00:17:42.180 and a priority
00:17:43.280 area across
00:17:44.320 newsrooms,
00:17:45.260 programs,
00:17:45.800 and digital
00:17:46.220 platforms
00:17:46.800 before and
00:17:48.020 after COP26.
00:17:49.860 They've designated
00:17:50.880 climate as a
00:17:51.680 national beat.
00:17:52.520 They're having
00:17:53.100 a new climate
00:17:53.840 editor and
00:17:54.960 they're also
00:17:55.360 going to have
00:17:55.860 a new
00:17:56.200 international
00:17:57.000 climate
00:17:57.640 reporting team.
00:17:59.520 Now let's
00:18:00.160 just hear how
00:18:00.840 they're planning
00:18:01.340 on covering
00:18:01.940 COP26.
00:18:03.100 They're going
00:18:03.760 to send
00:18:04.280 a London
00:18:05.120 correspondent.
00:18:06.440 They're going
00:18:06.780 to send
00:18:07.220 another London
00:18:08.100 correspondent.
00:18:09.300 They're going
00:18:09.780 to send
00:18:10.480 someone to
00:18:10.840 Calgary
00:18:11.280 to talk
00:18:11.880 about
00:18:12.120 Canada's
00:18:12.720 quote
00:18:13.060 deep
00:18:13.760 attachment
00:18:14.520 to
00:18:15.060 and
00:18:15.600 dependence
00:18:16.140 on
00:18:16.480 oil
00:18:16.840 and
00:18:17.060 gas
00:18:17.360 production.
00:18:18.980 Does that
00:18:19.840 not sound
00:18:20.720 like they're
00:18:21.520 trying to
00:18:22.120 write about
00:18:22.680 that as
00:18:23.100 though it's
00:18:23.420 a problem?
00:18:24.300 That they're
00:18:25.000 taking aim
00:18:25.840 at Canada's
00:18:26.840 resource
00:18:27.660 richness
00:18:28.200 and the
00:18:28.760 fact that
00:18:29.200 resources
00:18:29.740 are a
00:18:30.140 key part
00:18:30.660 of the
00:18:31.320 Canadian
00:18:31.640 economy.
00:18:32.140 That's how
00:18:32.420 I take
00:18:32.780 that.
00:18:33.280 I mean
00:18:33.460 obviously
00:18:33.820 I'll keep
00:18:34.320 an open
00:18:34.600 mind.
00:18:35.020 I'll follow
00:18:35.400 that coverage
00:18:36.020 but it
00:18:36.680 sounds like
00:18:37.500 Canada
00:18:38.080 and Alberta
00:18:39.260 are the
00:18:40.100 bad guys
00:18:40.760 in this
00:18:41.260 coverage plan.
00:18:42.680 They're also
00:18:43.040 sending a
00:18:43.600 senior
00:18:43.860 meteorologist
00:18:44.580 to Glasgow
00:18:45.340 to report
00:18:45.840 on the
00:18:46.060 science
00:18:46.360 behind the
00:18:46.820 headlines.
00:18:47.660 They're
00:18:47.760 going to
00:18:48.160 experiment
00:18:48.920 with carbon
00:18:50.460 offsets
00:18:51.120 and credits
00:18:51.780 related to
00:18:52.440 news gathering
00:18:53.120 travel.
00:18:53.620 So all
00:18:54.320 of this
00:18:54.600 travel of
00:18:55.160 sending
00:18:55.360 international
00:18:55.960 producers
00:18:56.480 and videographers
00:18:57.340 and reporters
00:18:58.000 around,
00:18:58.820 yeah that
00:18:59.220 emits a
00:18:59.620 carbon footprint.
00:19:00.460 So CBC
00:19:01.000 is going to
00:19:02.220 supposedly
00:19:02.900 offset that
00:19:04.120 footprint by
00:19:05.280 spending your
00:19:06.100 money because
00:19:07.320 that's what
00:19:07.800 CBC is,
00:19:08.740 an exercise
00:19:09.460 in government
00:19:10.060 subsidy,
00:19:10.820 your money
00:19:11.640 to plant
00:19:12.380 trees somewhere
00:19:13.320 so that they
00:19:14.300 feel less
00:19:15.000 guilty about
00:19:15.620 traveling to
00:19:16.700 pursue the
00:19:17.260 coverage that
00:19:17.820 they've decided
00:19:18.580 is important.
00:19:19.780 Okay I'm
00:19:20.200 dizzy just from
00:19:20.840 describing that.
00:19:22.080 But that's
00:19:22.520 basically what's
00:19:23.160 happening here.
00:19:23.700 So that
00:19:23.920 1.3 billion
00:19:24.820 CBC gets
00:19:25.920 they're going
00:19:26.460 to have
00:19:26.700 within that
00:19:27.140 a carbon
00:19:27.620 offset budget
00:19:28.640 so that they
00:19:29.480 can justify
00:19:30.100 sending dozens
00:19:30.980 of people
00:19:31.440 around the
00:19:31.920 world to
00:19:32.440 India,
00:19:33.360 Iceland,
00:19:34.020 Glasgow,
00:19:34.740 Alberta,
00:19:35.660 all to tell
00:19:36.320 us that we
00:19:36.900 need to
00:19:37.340 travel less
00:19:38.140 and do more
00:19:38.800 to fight
00:19:39.100 climate change.
00:19:39.880 Okay speaking
00:19:41.580 of India,
00:19:42.100 they've established
00:19:42.640 an India
00:19:43.080 bureau and
00:19:44.040 their correspondent
00:19:44.920 there Salima
00:19:45.560 Shivji is
00:19:46.140 going to do
00:19:47.180 a special
00:19:47.560 report on the
00:19:48.140 raging debate
00:19:48.940 over coal.
00:19:50.320 So again we're
00:19:50.880 now going to
00:19:51.280 lecture India
00:19:52.000 about how they
00:19:52.800 have to do
00:19:53.380 their environmental
00:19:54.780 and energy
00:19:55.420 policy because
00:19:56.220 we've apparently
00:19:56.860 decided to take
00:19:57.800 aim at Indian
00:19:58.720 coal production.
00:20:00.060 And just to top
00:20:00.760 it off,
00:20:01.140 Adrian Arsenault is
00:20:02.100 flying up to
00:20:02.860 Canada's north
00:20:03.560 where residents
00:20:04.520 are adjusting
00:20:05.380 to change
00:20:06.180 and offer
00:20:07.280 lessons for the
00:20:08.120 rest of the
00:20:08.580 country.
00:20:09.020 So this isn't
00:20:09.520 just a neutral
00:20:10.100 assessment of
00:20:11.200 what's happening.
00:20:11.900 CBC is going to
00:20:12.600 bring us lessons,
00:20:13.880 lessons for the
00:20:14.680 rest of the
00:20:15.060 country from the
00:20:15.820 north.
00:20:16.220 So we're going to
00:20:16.940 get a little
00:20:17.280 talking to and
00:20:18.240 finger wagging from
00:20:19.140 the state
00:20:19.460 broadcaster here
00:20:20.400 on climate
00:20:21.540 change.
00:20:21.940 Now this goes
00:20:22.740 on and on
00:20:23.620 and on and
00:20:24.180 they're saying
00:20:24.720 yeah we're still
00:20:25.280 covering other
00:20:25.880 things, we're
00:20:26.620 still covering
00:20:27.160 systemic racism,
00:20:28.300 equity, truth
00:20:29.080 and reconciliation.
00:20:30.580 Oh good, we
00:20:31.320 can't let those
00:20:31.980 go by the
00:20:32.420 wayside because
00:20:33.100 we're talking
00:20:33.600 about climate
00:20:34.600 change and
00:20:35.220 whatnot.
00:20:36.060 But CBC is
00:20:37.200 committing to
00:20:38.200 activism.
00:20:39.840 CBC, the
00:20:40.600 state broadcaster,
00:20:41.520 is committing to
00:20:42.100 climate activism
00:20:42.940 and this will
00:20:44.100 only benefit
00:20:45.000 certain types of
00:20:46.060 politicians for
00:20:46.880 whom these are
00:20:47.460 issues that they
00:20:48.620 very much claim
00:20:49.660 in their
00:20:50.360 wheelhouse.
00:20:51.540 Our planet is
00:20:52.320 changing, so
00:20:53.220 will our
00:20:54.080 journalism, Mr.
00:20:55.680 Fenlon writes.
00:20:56.420 Yeah, no doubt
00:20:57.300 about that.
00:20:58.280 We've got to
00:20:58.760 take a break.
00:20:59.240 When we come
00:20:59.600 back, more of
00:21:00.320 The Andrew
00:21:00.620 Lawton Show.
00:21:01.300 Stay tuned.
00:21:03.400 You're tuned in
00:21:04.600 to The Andrew
00:21:05.380 Lawton Show.
00:21:09.940 Welcome back to
00:21:11.240 The Andrew
00:21:11.720 Lawton Show,
00:21:12.360 Canada's most
00:21:13.320 irreverent talk
00:21:14.100 show here on
00:21:14.800 True North.
00:21:15.280 We've talked
00:21:16.120 a lot for
00:21:16.980 months and
00:21:17.660 months, coming
00:21:18.220 up on two
00:21:18.820 years now, about
00:21:19.960 our civil
00:21:20.640 liberties in
00:21:21.740 Canada being
00:21:22.620 under attack
00:21:23.380 from the
00:21:23.880 government.
00:21:24.440 And in fact,
00:21:24.960 that's the
00:21:25.280 very idea of
00:21:26.660 the liberal
00:21:27.140 democratic thesis,
00:21:28.240 if you're a
00:21:28.800 political theorist,
00:21:29.720 that the best
00:21:31.120 application of
00:21:32.660 our rights is
00:21:33.940 to be left
00:21:34.920 alone by
00:21:35.660 government, that
00:21:36.420 government is
00:21:37.040 the greatest
00:21:37.400 threat to your
00:21:38.140 ability to
00:21:38.660 pursue whatever
00:21:39.220 it is you want
00:21:39.960 to pursue as
00:21:41.180 an individual.
00:21:42.460 And this idea
00:21:43.240 was captured in
00:21:44.260 Canada nearly
00:21:44.920 40 years ago by
00:21:46.180 the Charter of
00:21:46.940 Rights and
00:21:47.380 Freedoms.
00:21:47.800 Now, I would
00:21:48.680 say it's not a
00:21:49.440 perfect document
00:21:50.400 because we have
00:21:51.920 so many applications
00:21:53.060 of it in court
00:21:53.900 decisions and even
00:21:55.140 from politicians
00:21:56.180 that I'd say do
00:21:57.060 not reflect what
00:21:58.600 the intended rights
00:22:00.080 of the Charter
00:22:00.740 were supposed to
00:22:01.480 be.
00:22:02.020 But nevertheless,
00:22:03.040 it is part of the
00:22:04.100 Canadian Constitution
00:22:05.660 that we have the
00:22:06.880 right to freedom of
00:22:07.760 expression, we have
00:22:08.660 the right to
00:22:09.160 mobility, we have
00:22:10.120 the right to
00:22:10.900 life, to liberty,
00:22:12.020 security, to all
00:22:13.260 of these things
00:22:14.040 that we should be
00:22:15.400 celebrating and
00:22:16.480 upholding.
00:22:17.480 But governments
00:22:18.620 don't seem to want
00:22:19.580 to do that.
00:22:20.520 Charter rights have
00:22:21.360 been under attack
00:22:22.100 for a year and a
00:22:23.040 half and many other
00:22:23.940 fora as well, but
00:22:24.920 certainly throughout
00:22:25.640 the course of the
00:22:26.300 pandemic and in
00:22:27.580 particular with this
00:22:28.600 latest vaccine
00:22:29.680 mandate if you want
00:22:31.240 to get on a plane
00:22:32.140 to fly out of the
00:22:33.360 country as one
00:22:34.620 example.
00:22:35.360 Let's go back to
00:22:36.260 the basics here.
00:22:36.980 I want to talk to
00:22:37.560 someone who was there
00:22:38.340 at the very beginning
00:22:39.280 when he was the
00:22:40.180 Premier of Newfoundland
00:22:41.300 and Labrador when
00:22:42.540 the Charter of Rights
00:22:43.320 and Freedoms was
00:22:43.980 being drafted, the
00:22:44.860 last surviving of the
00:22:46.600 Premiers involved in
00:22:47.740 that very significant
00:22:48.780 process in Canadian
00:22:50.400 history.
00:22:50.920 That is former
00:22:51.560 Newfoundland Premier
00:22:52.420 Brian Peckford who
00:22:54.020 joins me now.
00:22:54.920 Brian, it's wonderful
00:22:55.600 to talk to you.
00:22:56.240 Thanks very much for
00:22:57.040 your time today.
00:22:58.200 Thank you for having
00:22:58.880 me.
00:22:59.240 I'm more than pleased
00:23:00.840 to help clarify the
00:23:02.640 whole business about
00:23:03.420 the Charter of Rights
00:23:04.040 and Freedoms.
00:23:05.160 This is something that
00:23:06.560 again, we're coming
00:23:07.540 up on the 40th
00:23:08.780 anniversary of and I
00:23:09.780 think we'll have to
00:23:10.280 have you back around
00:23:11.100 then to talk about the
00:23:12.680 legacy of the Charter
00:23:13.940 but the one fundamental
00:23:15.840 thing that people have
00:23:17.240 viewed in the Charter
00:23:18.600 all throughout its
00:23:19.760 history is that it's
00:23:21.120 there to protect the
00:23:22.360 rights of Canadians and
00:23:23.920 we have in that
00:23:24.640 freedom of expression,
00:23:26.220 mobility, all of these
00:23:28.000 things have been under
00:23:28.960 an increasing threat
00:23:29.800 from government in the
00:23:30.640 last year and a half
00:23:31.600 and when you see the
00:23:33.080 Charter that you left
00:23:34.100 behind as part of your
00:23:35.100 political legacy and you
00:23:36.240 see what's been
00:23:36.740 happening, how do you
00:23:38.020 reconcile those two
00:23:39.000 visions?
00:23:40.380 I can't.
00:23:40.940 I can't reconcile
00:23:41.820 those two visions and
00:23:42.760 I'm sure that if any of
00:23:43.880 the other first ministers
00:23:44.820 were still alive, they
00:23:46.800 would voice the same
00:23:48.120 kind of shock and
00:23:49.660 surprise as I do to
00:23:51.080 see how callously the
00:23:54.440 governments, not
00:23:55.540 individuals or
00:23:56.540 organizations or
00:23:57.740 somebody who's trying
00:23:58.460 to undermine our
00:23:59.360 society or some
00:24:00.740 anarchist somewhere,
00:24:02.420 but the actual
00:24:03.720 governments whose
00:24:07.260 predecessors participated
00:24:10.520 in forming and
00:24:13.040 creating this Charter
00:24:14.640 of Rights and
00:24:15.100 Freedoms in the
00:24:15.740 Constitution Act of
00:24:16.780 1982.
00:24:17.920 So I am absolutely
00:24:18.900 shocked and have been
00:24:20.620 writing about it
00:24:21.440 extensively for the
00:24:23.220 last couple of years,
00:24:24.620 highlighting the fact
00:24:26.000 that what the
00:24:26.980 governments are doing
00:24:28.080 violates, you know,
00:24:29.840 at least four different
00:24:30.920 sections of the Charter
00:24:32.420 of Rights and Freedoms,
00:24:33.480 Section 2, Section 6,
00:24:35.580 Section 7, and Section
00:24:36.900 15, all of which deal
00:24:39.260 with freedoms and
00:24:40.140 rights, equality rights,
00:24:42.300 freedom of assembly,
00:24:43.460 freedom of association,
00:24:45.200 freedom of expression,
00:24:46.680 freedom to move around
00:24:47.480 the country, freedom
00:24:48.800 to have a job, a right,
00:24:51.980 it's a right to have a
00:24:53.280 job.
00:24:54.080 Your rights are supposed
00:24:54.940 to be protected and yet
00:24:55.860 jobs are being taken
00:24:56.720 away from people.
00:24:58.140 So, and governments
00:25:01.280 are doing this willy-nilly.
00:25:02.440 The parliaments are not
00:25:03.240 involved anymore.
00:25:04.100 This is the other part
00:25:04.920 of the equation that a
00:25:06.760 lot of people are
00:25:07.240 forgetting.
00:25:07.680 I thought this was a
00:25:08.480 parliamentary democracy.
00:25:10.920 Parliamentary democracy
00:25:11.800 means by its very
00:25:12.860 definition, you go
00:25:14.540 through the parliament
00:25:15.340 for all these things.
00:25:16.740 So it seems to me that
00:25:18.220 the parliament of Canada
00:25:19.180 and the parliaments of
00:25:20.240 all of the other
00:25:21.000 jurisdictions, by the
00:25:22.180 way, there are 14
00:25:22.840 parliaments in Canada,
00:25:24.540 when you include the
00:25:25.360 territories, the three
00:25:26.080 territories, 10
00:25:27.380 provinces and the
00:25:28.120 federal government.
00:25:29.340 These should be open
00:25:30.600 and these should be
00:25:32.340 debating the provisions
00:25:34.400 that the government
00:25:35.600 is suggesting should be
00:25:37.380 brought in to mitigate
00:25:38.820 the virus called the
00:25:40.920 COVID-19.
00:25:42.200 And there should be a
00:25:43.160 full and healthy debate
00:25:44.180 by the representatives of
00:25:45.940 the people.
00:25:46.880 So not only is the
00:25:48.020 charter of rights being
00:25:49.480 violated, but the whole
00:25:51.140 custom convention and
00:25:53.680 parliamentary democracy
00:25:55.100 principles are being
00:25:56.860 much like violated and
00:25:58.980 abused in what is now
00:26:01.580 happening and what has
00:26:02.500 been happening for the
00:26:03.300 last almost two years
00:26:04.440 now.
00:26:05.340 There's a tremendous
00:26:06.780 backlog in the courts
00:26:08.220 of challenges, of
00:26:09.440 everything ranging from
00:26:10.640 individual fines that
00:26:11.960 people have received
00:26:13.080 under lockdown measures
00:26:14.260 to very large programs
00:26:16.000 like hotel quarantine,
00:26:17.920 vaccine mandates, all of
00:26:19.300 this.
00:26:19.600 But in the cases that
00:26:20.760 have been litigated,
00:26:22.080 courts have, generally
00:26:23.040 speaking, taken a very
00:26:24.640 wide interpretation of
00:26:26.680 the very first section
00:26:27.800 of the charter, which
00:26:28.540 is very familiar
00:26:29.180 certainly to you and
00:26:30.140 and to a lot of
00:26:31.020 Canadians by now that
00:26:32.080 says that all of the
00:26:32.960 other rights you have
00:26:33.860 can be limited by
00:26:35.460 government and I knew
00:26:36.720 that and by the
00:26:37.540 courts and I know that
00:26:38.340 you wrote a letter to
00:26:39.280 premiers about this and
00:26:40.520 you basically said, you
00:26:42.300 know, section one is
00:26:43.280 not protecting you as
00:26:44.380 much as you think it
00:26:45.220 is.
00:26:46.080 Section one says that
00:26:48.040 the federal government or
00:26:49.420 the provinces have to
00:26:52.020 demonstrably justify
00:26:53.840 what they are doing
00:26:55.860 within reasonable
00:26:56.800 limits in a free and
00:26:58.700 democratic society by
00:27:00.400 law.
00:27:01.880 They have not
00:27:03.120 demonstrably justified
00:27:04.840 what they are doing
00:27:06.380 and therefore, in my
00:27:07.880 view, everybody else is
00:27:10.360 being silent on this.
00:27:12.160 Everybody else is being
00:27:13.040 I haven't heard any law
00:27:14.040 societies.
00:27:14.660 I haven't heard any any
00:27:16.020 law professors or
00:27:17.000 political science people.
00:27:18.100 Everybody's going silent.
00:27:19.300 There's a sort of a
00:27:19.940 collective psychosis or
00:27:21.640 amnesia in the country
00:27:23.200 where nobody wants to
00:27:24.300 speak up on this.
00:27:25.760 They have not
00:27:26.540 demonstrably justified.
00:27:27.880 I mean, I can read
00:27:28.540 the words.
00:27:29.600 I don't have to be a
00:27:30.360 constitutional lawyer.
00:27:31.780 I was involved in the
00:27:32.820 constitution making and
00:27:34.320 so I have a fair amount
00:27:35.180 of experience in that
00:27:37.600 over like almost two
00:27:38.900 years when we were
00:27:39.720 negotiating the
00:27:40.700 Constitution Act.
00:27:41.860 So I do have some
00:27:42.540 experience.
00:27:43.560 I do have some
00:27:44.340 knowledge of words and
00:27:45.980 what has put in a
00:27:46.780 constitution.
00:27:47.740 And I've been studying
00:27:48.960 this ever since it was
00:27:49.920 created back in 1981.
00:27:52.260 So I feel I have some
00:27:53.580 authority on this.
00:27:55.760 And therefore, I know
00:27:57.260 what demonstrably
00:27:58.640 justify means.
00:28:00.160 You have to justify
00:28:01.320 demonstrably.
00:28:02.660 In other words, you have
00:28:03.440 to be quite open and
00:28:06.020 transparent and you have
00:28:07.400 to make you have to have
00:28:09.040 great evidence.
00:28:10.540 And what the governments
00:28:11.280 have not done is that
00:28:12.560 they have not allowed to
00:28:13.460 the parliaments or through
00:28:14.740 any hearings competing
00:28:16.980 views on the medical
00:28:18.540 science that is driving
00:28:20.160 these lockdowns and
00:28:21.560 these mandates and so
00:28:22.620 on.
00:28:23.060 And the mere fact that
00:28:23.820 they haven't, that means
00:28:24.760 they have not
00:28:25.600 demonstrably justified the
00:28:27.560 positions they are
00:28:28.340 taking.
00:28:29.000 So in my view, if this
00:28:30.060 ever gets a Supreme
00:28:31.000 Court of Canada, if
00:28:32.120 there's any independence
00:28:32.940 left at all in the
00:28:33.840 judiciary, and that's
00:28:35.160 where it would reside
00:28:35.900 right now, I submit,
00:28:37.860 then it seems to me they
00:28:39.380 would have to rule a lot
00:28:40.860 of these measures to be
00:28:42.060 unconstitutional.
00:28:42.860 Now, they may put in
00:28:43.840 place other measures or
00:28:46.140 say you can do A and you
00:28:47.500 can do B, but you can't
00:28:48.580 do C and D, or we'll put
00:28:50.560 a time frame on this, or
00:28:52.140 you give me more evidence
00:28:53.900 before I make a final
00:28:55.020 decision, right?
00:28:56.460 They could do all of
00:28:57.300 those things.
00:28:58.720 But they, and the other
00:29:00.880 thing I've said to the
00:29:01.720 premiers in a, in a, in
00:29:03.300 a open letter is there is
00:29:05.240 a measure to expedite this
00:29:07.380 through the courts.
00:29:08.520 Nobody's talking about this
00:29:09.660 either.
00:29:10.440 And that is provincial or
00:29:12.800 federal reference.
00:29:13.920 Every government of
00:29:14.800 Canada, provinces, and
00:29:16.720 the federal government can
00:29:17.980 take their measures and
00:29:19.600 refer directly to their
00:29:22.260 highest court.
00:29:23.480 In the case of the
00:29:24.180 provinces, it's their
00:29:25.220 appeal court.
00:29:26.380 In the case of the
00:29:27.360 federal government, it's
00:29:28.400 the Supreme Court of
00:29:29.040 Canada.
00:29:29.860 And they could ask those
00:29:30.980 courts, is what we are
00:29:32.280 doing following the
00:29:33.660 constitution of this
00:29:34.620 country?
00:29:35.120 Is it following the
00:29:35.980 Charter Rights and
00:29:36.560 Freedoms?
00:29:37.080 Not one has done it.
00:29:38.480 I've submitted an open
00:29:40.280 letter to all premiers
00:29:41.340 asking them why won't
00:29:42.780 you refer what you're
00:29:44.360 doing to your courts to
00:29:46.200 get a decision so that
00:29:47.280 the people of Canada know
00:29:48.540 you're being
00:29:49.000 constitutional.
00:29:50.080 Not one premier has
00:29:50.900 answered me.
00:29:51.860 Not one premier has
00:29:52.780 answered me.
00:29:54.380 And I find that shocking
00:29:55.720 that not even the
00:29:57.040 courtesy to respond to
00:29:58.260 somebody who was
00:29:59.140 involved in the
00:29:59.740 constitution in the
00:30:00.560 beginning, especially
00:30:01.500 the Charter Rights and
00:30:02.420 Freedoms.
00:30:03.100 So there are measures
00:30:04.080 available.
00:30:05.060 A lot of people are
00:30:05.720 frustrated.
00:30:06.920 But if the, if a
00:30:08.160 province of Canada did
00:30:09.480 what I'm saying and
00:30:10.600 referred this to their
00:30:11.540 appeal court, do you
00:30:12.620 think the appeal court
00:30:13.500 would sit on that?
00:30:14.520 Not on your life.
00:30:15.740 They would know right
00:30:17.180 away as a signal by
00:30:18.520 these governments, they
00:30:19.400 want to know, you know,
00:30:20.840 whether we're
00:30:21.180 constitutional.
00:30:21.980 They would take that up
00:30:22.860 immediately, make an
00:30:24.060 adjudication.
00:30:25.160 Then that province could
00:30:26.160 refer directly to the
00:30:27.220 Supreme Court of
00:30:27.760 Canada.
00:30:28.700 It can go directly to
00:30:29.460 the Supreme Court of
00:30:29.980 Canada.
00:30:30.500 So those two courts
00:30:31.360 could within six months
00:30:32.960 just say, give it an
00:30:34.600 outside of a year, make a
00:30:36.020 decision.
00:30:36.380 Not the three or four
00:30:37.900 years that we're into
00:30:39.080 now with them going
00:30:40.660 through the courts by
00:30:41.480 organizations and
00:30:42.580 individuals and so on
00:30:43.780 because in the regular
00:30:46.520 course of business, it
00:30:47.980 has to go to the trial
00:30:51.040 division of the Supreme
00:30:52.060 Court of a province, then
00:30:53.620 to the appeal division of
00:30:55.240 the Supreme Court of the
00:30:56.160 province, then to the
00:30:57.620 Supreme Court of Canada.
00:30:59.220 So that can be shortened
00:31:00.880 immeasurably, especially
00:31:02.420 if a government initiated
00:31:03.820 it because then the
00:31:05.140 courts would be seized with
00:31:06.180 knowing they need a quick
00:31:07.500 decision.
00:31:08.560 I don't disagree with
00:31:09.860 you, but I think the two
00:31:10.980 issues there are firstly
00:31:12.500 that a lot of provinces
00:31:13.580 know that what they're
00:31:14.920 doing is not
00:31:15.740 constitutional and they
00:31:16.860 don't want to put it
00:31:17.600 through that scrutiny.
00:31:18.980 But also, I have not a
00:31:21.200 lot of optimism that the
00:31:22.900 courts are going to be on
00:31:23.920 the right side of this.
00:31:25.060 And to go back to
00:31:25.820 Section 1 for a moment,
00:31:27.280 we've seen in a number of
00:31:28.860 constitutional charter
00:31:30.680 litigation cases and, you
00:31:32.660 know, even more recently
00:31:33.520 on some of the COVID
00:31:35.020 lockdown-related litigation
00:31:36.600 that, again, courts are
00:31:38.560 taking government at its
00:31:40.440 word that COVID is kind of
00:31:42.200 a trump card that you can
00:31:43.920 use to suspend civil
00:31:45.100 liberties.
00:31:45.400 They're not worried about
00:31:46.400 the inherent constraints of
00:31:48.600 Section 1.
00:31:49.400 So the general question I
00:31:51.300 guess I'll put to you,
00:31:52.140 Brian, is when that was
00:31:53.520 being drafted and when that
00:31:54.780 was being considered, was
00:31:56.360 there a little bit more
00:31:57.920 optimism about how the
00:32:00.000 judiciary would use that
00:32:01.480 power?
00:32:01.840 No question.
00:32:03.760 Nobody.
00:32:04.640 Nobody.
00:32:05.480 And I would say those
00:32:06.260 people who are still alive
00:32:07.260 who were deputy ministers,
00:32:08.960 advisors to the various
00:32:10.160 governments, there's quite a
00:32:10.940 few of them still alive,
00:32:11.700 should be coming out and
00:32:13.040 saying what I'm saying.
00:32:14.160 I don't think there was
00:32:14.820 anybody in that room at the
00:32:16.180 time or in the various
00:32:17.380 rooms of the various
00:32:18.360 delegations who thought that
00:32:20.640 this would happen at this
00:32:22.080 point in time, even in the
00:32:24.180 public emergency so-called.
00:32:27.260 So Section 1 was never
00:32:29.280 meant to be a trump card for
00:32:30.580 what we're seeing now.
00:32:31.960 Well, but it's a
00:32:32.880 protection because it's
00:32:33.900 demonstrably justified and
00:32:35.180 they haven't done that.
00:32:36.020 They're using that, but it
00:32:37.560 cannot be, that's not a
00:32:39.080 valid use of that section.
00:32:41.000 So they're still violating
00:32:42.080 the Constitution.
00:32:43.300 So that's how I would, that's
00:32:44.420 how I interpret it.
00:32:45.840 Yes, they might try to use it
00:32:47.400 as a trump card, but it's a
00:32:48.400 false trump card.
00:32:50.400 It's a false trump card because
00:32:51.740 where is the justification
00:32:53.540 demonstrably made?
00:32:55.440 Nowhere.
00:32:56.340 All they've done is gone ahead
00:32:57.580 with their provisions with
00:32:59.380 no justification in those
00:33:00.680 provisions what they did.
00:33:02.140 And by the way, in Alberta,
00:33:03.440 there's a court case by the
00:33:04.680 Center of Constitutional
00:33:05.960 Freedoms and they've been
00:33:07.080 trying to get the evidence
00:33:08.100 from the Alberta government
00:33:09.180 and the Alberta government
00:33:10.200 has been refraining from
00:33:11.560 providing the evidence, the
00:33:13.000 evidence, by the way, that
00:33:14.140 they were supposed to have
00:33:15.340 for the decisions they made a
00:33:17.100 year and a half ago.
00:33:18.520 So to say they don't have it
00:33:20.260 or it's going to take us time
00:33:21.580 to prepare it, is absolutely
00:33:23.200 specious and doesn't pass
00:33:25.340 muster.
00:33:26.260 So that's a good example of one
00:33:28.260 government that's very afraid
00:33:29.320 to come forward with the
00:33:30.740 evidence.
00:33:32.180 Evidence has not been presented
00:33:33.660 to justify what the
00:33:35.240 governments are doing.
00:33:36.260 And they have that obligation
00:33:37.620 under Section 1 to do so.
00:33:40.800 You've been a premier.
00:33:42.500 You understand the political
00:33:44.080 implications of your actions.
00:33:45.660 And you also understand, of
00:33:46.940 course, working within the
00:33:48.320 bureaucracy and having some
00:33:49.680 forces in government and in
00:33:51.380 deputy ministers that want to
00:33:52.980 push and pull you every which
00:33:54.180 way.
00:33:54.820 But a lot of these premiers,
00:33:56.380 you know, it seems like
00:33:57.220 they're listening to the
00:33:58.820 public health experts that
00:34:00.220 they cite.
00:34:01.340 And a lot of them are only
00:34:02.780 interested in lockdowns.
00:34:04.040 They're not interested in
00:34:05.380 exploring the economic
00:34:06.520 implications, the civil
00:34:07.840 liberties implications and
00:34:09.400 all of these other things.
00:34:10.560 And I guess I'm just curious
00:34:12.040 why you think a lot of these
00:34:13.640 premiers have narrowed their
00:34:15.320 focus so much to only really
00:34:17.620 pull advice from one source
00:34:19.420 and one source only as
00:34:20.700 they're dropping these
00:34:21.840 measures.
00:34:22.540 I find it very disturbing.
00:34:25.820 Obviously, one of the
00:34:27.400 answers is, is very poor
00:34:28.880 leadership in this country
00:34:29.800 right now.
00:34:30.720 Obviously, leaders are to
00:34:32.480 take advice.
00:34:33.160 But after taking advice,
00:34:34.540 then they're to go away and
00:34:35.640 make up their own minds, both
00:34:37.120 the cabinet and the ministers
00:34:38.660 and the premier or prime
00:34:40.260 minister.
00:34:40.680 That doesn't look like it's
00:34:41.980 happening now.
00:34:42.800 But it's blatant, Andrew.
00:34:44.400 I mean, there's the Great
00:34:45.100 Barrington Declaration.
00:34:46.300 How long has that been out
00:34:47.260 there?
00:34:47.560 And they tried to malign the
00:34:49.020 three greatest experts in the
00:34:51.380 world who signed that
00:34:52.580 Barrington Declaration, saying
00:34:54.460 that these lockdowns are not
00:34:55.580 going to work.
00:34:57.020 And, you know, some tens of
00:34:58.420 thousands of doctors and
00:35:00.600 research scientists around the
00:35:02.300 world.
00:35:02.680 That's being completely
00:35:04.240 ignored.
00:35:05.260 So it's not only on the
00:35:06.540 narrow scale, but on the
00:35:08.440 broader scale.
00:35:09.480 They're not even taking that
00:35:10.700 into consideration.
00:35:11.360 So once again, I come back to
00:35:14.180 number one, it's a lack of
00:35:15.120 leadership.
00:35:15.540 There's no question about it
00:35:16.580 that most of the leaders of
00:35:17.600 this country today have failed
00:35:19.520 the test of leadership, have
00:35:21.220 failed the test of their
00:35:22.240 premiership, have failed the
00:35:23.800 test of their prime
00:35:24.540 ministership.
00:35:25.520 And it comes down now,
00:35:26.700 unfortunately, to civil society,
00:35:29.140 comes down to you and me and
00:35:30.820 others.
00:35:31.100 And thank you for giving me this
00:35:32.420 opportunity to articulate an
00:35:34.400 alternative view, not to be
00:35:36.880 against vaccines, generally
00:35:40.500 speaking, but be against one
00:35:42.440 that has not proven its worth
00:35:44.480 in any testing because it's
00:35:46.380 still experimental and is
00:35:48.080 damaging tens of killing
00:35:49.440 tens of thousands of people
00:35:51.520 according to the government
00:35:52.500 records themselves, both in the
00:35:54.200 United States and Europe.
00:35:55.780 And therefore, we should be
00:35:57.220 far more cautious and we
00:35:58.660 should be taking a broader
00:36:00.000 view of the guidance and
00:36:02.120 expertise that we're supposed
00:36:04.780 to do as good leaders.
00:36:06.340 And we're not doing that.
00:36:07.480 And so I think that there's a
00:36:08.420 failure of leadership, number
00:36:09.980 one, but there's also failure
00:36:11.220 by civic society, by civil
00:36:14.100 society, by our business
00:36:15.600 leaders, by our union
00:36:16.600 leaders, by our academic
00:36:17.720 leaders to come forward.
00:36:20.760 And the other problem with
00:36:21.780 that is our democracy has
00:36:23.720 been failing for quite some
00:36:24.660 time.
00:36:25.400 This is a catalyst that sort
00:36:27.500 of manifests it more open
00:36:29.940 so more people see it.
00:36:31.380 OK, it's been failing for a
00:36:32.840 long while, especially since
00:36:34.320 Pierre Elliott Trudeau, senior,
00:36:35.980 when he started to develop a
00:36:37.680 bigger prime minister's office.
00:36:39.220 The power has been moving from
00:36:40.600 the MPs.
00:36:41.560 The power has been moving from
00:36:42.840 the parliament.
00:36:44.040 Parliament went, first of all,
00:36:45.520 to the cabinet with the prime
00:36:47.140 minister.
00:36:47.500 Now it's gone all the way to the
00:36:48.660 prime minister.
00:36:49.600 And there's a book out that
00:36:50.660 people should read by Donald
00:36:53.020 Savoy entitled Democracy in
00:36:57.380 Canada, the Disintegration of
00:36:59.020 Our Institutions.
00:36:59.920 And he tracks, he tracks this
00:37:02.900 evolution of the diminution of
00:37:06.460 power from the parliament to
00:37:08.740 the prime minister's office over
00:37:10.120 time.
00:37:10.900 And so we have been gradually
00:37:12.000 losing our democracy.
00:37:13.720 And this so-called pandemic, this
00:37:15.660 virus has manifested all of the
00:37:19.520 scars that we allowed to happen
00:37:22.740 over the last three or four
00:37:23.880 decades, sadly.
00:37:25.680 And so there's a real leadership
00:37:26.960 vacuum, not only at the political
00:37:28.360 level, but at the academic
00:37:29.980 business and unionally level.
00:37:32.220 In other words, our civic society
00:37:33.520 is broken.
00:37:34.340 And we need to fix it soon in
00:37:36.720 order to get back the democracy
00:37:38.700 that we're losing now every day.
00:37:41.400 Just as we close here, and you
00:37:44.060 look back, as I mentioned, on
00:37:45.640 almost 40 years of the Charter of
00:37:47.480 Rights and Freedoms and still a
00:37:48.940 country that has devolved into the
00:37:51.020 things you and I have been
00:37:51.760 chatting about for the time we've
00:37:53.320 been discussing things.
00:37:55.140 Do you feel that the Charter is
00:37:57.380 still the tool it was intended to
00:37:59.580 be, or do you feel looking back
00:38:01.280 like there was something missing
00:38:02.960 from it?
00:38:04.080 No, I don't think there's
00:38:04.740 anything missing from it.
00:38:05.840 All of the elements are there.
00:38:07.480 Remember, we had the Bill of
00:38:08.880 Rights before the Charter.
00:38:09.960 John Diefenbaker introduced the
00:38:11.260 Bill of Rights.
00:38:12.240 But we still do, technically.
00:38:14.520 Well, it is as a federal law, but
00:38:15.940 the whole idea of the Charter was
00:38:17.820 to put it in the Constitution so it
00:38:19.360 would be further away from being
00:38:21.060 able to be changed.
00:38:23.660 That was the whole idea.
00:38:25.020 We already had a Charter.
00:38:27.500 All the ideas that are in the
00:38:28.920 Charter were in the Bill of Rights
00:38:30.120 that Mr. Diefenbaker passed.
00:38:31.380 But it was a federal act of the
00:38:32.500 Parliament and therefore was
00:38:33.780 subject to change by any
00:38:34.820 majority of government that came
00:38:35.940 in.
00:38:36.440 Could be changed very easily.
00:38:37.860 But by putting it in the
00:38:38.980 Constitution, we all thought,
00:38:41.000 everybody thought, that therefore
00:38:42.640 it's very difficult to change now
00:38:44.660 and therefore we have our rights
00:38:46.620 and freedoms protected.
00:38:47.780 Only to find out today that we
00:38:49.560 don't.
00:38:49.860 Well, on that grim note, I guess
00:38:53.920 it shows that, as you mentioned,
00:38:55.340 we have to, in civil society, be
00:38:56.860 the ones to stand up for our
00:38:58.000 freedoms first and foremost.
00:38:59.760 Former Newfoundland Premier
00:39:01.220 Brian Peckford, thank you so much,
00:39:02.840 sir, for joining me.
00:39:03.520 It's a pleasure to speak with you.
00:39:05.380 Andrew, it's a pleasure to speak
00:39:06.380 to you.
00:39:06.740 Thank you very much.
00:39:08.340 That was former Newfoundland Premier
00:39:10.460 Brian Peckford.
00:39:11.480 That's it for me.
00:39:12.140 I can't add anything after that
00:39:13.760 discussion, nor would I even want
00:39:15.900 to.
00:39:16.080 We'll definitely have to get him back
00:39:17.320 on the show, certainly for the
00:39:19.000 40th anniversary of the Charter,
00:39:20.640 but I'd say even before then as
00:39:22.220 well.
00:39:22.420 That was fantastic.
00:39:23.740 We have to end things here.
00:39:24.940 My thanks to all of you for
00:39:26.240 tuning in to Canada's most
00:39:27.860 irreverent talk show.
00:39:29.040 You're listening to The Andrew
00:39:30.360 Lawton Show here on True North.
00:39:31.800 Thank you, God bless, and good
00:39:33.180 day.
00:39:34.100 Thanks for listening to The Andrew
00:39:35.500 Lawton Show.
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