Juno News - Scapegoats and Cancel Mobs

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's most irreverent talk show, this is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:13.040 Coming up, locking up children in the name of public health, scapegoating travellers, and putting a human face on cancel culture. 0.55

00:00:22.120 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:25.640 Welcome to another edition of The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North, Canada's most irreverent talk show.

00:00:34.760 We are not exactly on location, but we're in a different spot than our normal studio,

00:00:41.080 because as promised last week, we are starting production this week, actually as a matter of fact, starting tomorrow,

00:00:47.300 on our new documentary, Assaulted, Justin Trudeau's War on Gun Owners.

00:00:51.740 And I am actually in British Columbia this week, filming a bunch of great discussions and features of people that you will see when this documentary is released later in the year.

00:01:00.480 And I just want to say on that note, thank you to all of the people who already have contributed, who have sent me ideas,

00:01:06.200 who have offered themselves up as guests, who have suggested other people I should talk to.

00:01:10.400 Believe me when I say this is very much appreciated.

00:01:13.120 If you want more information about this project, you can head on over to Assaulted.ca.

00:01:17.520 But with the exception of the different scenery, this is a normal show, albeit one broadcast in a different location.

00:01:24.660 I want to talk about the real tyranny that is taking place right now under the auspices of keeping people safe,

00:01:32.920 under the auspices of public health, but moving far beyond that to such a point that not even an expert is able to identify

00:01:40.520 where the science is in some of these measures, in particular in Peel region,

00:01:46.780 where children are being told they have to be essentially imprisoned in their bedrooms,

00:01:52.200 kept away from their siblings, kept away from their parents, even if they don't have any COVID-19 symptoms.

00:01:58.520 This is insane. This is not conjecture. It's not speculation.

00:02:02.160 This is actually a document that was provided by the region of Peel about what to do if your child is dismissed from school or child care

00:02:11.700 and does not have any symptoms.

00:02:13.920 The child must self-isolate, which means stay in a separate bedroom, eat in a separate room apart from others,

00:02:20.860 use a separate bathroom if possible, and if the child must leave their room,

00:02:25.640 they should wear a mask and stay two meters apart from others and any other children.

00:02:29.740 So their siblings should stay home as well.

00:02:32.480 They don't need to self-isolate in a separate room, but they can't go play with their friends,

00:02:36.400 they can't see their family, and they certainly can't see the kid that we're locking in the first bedroom.

00:02:41.280 And again, not to compare two things that don't have anything to do with each other,

00:02:44.940 but remember the outrage at the idea during the Trump administration

00:02:48.460 that kids were being just ripped away from their parents and kept in cages?

00:02:52.540 Well, here we have Peel region in Ontario telling parents they should keep asymptomatic kids 1.00

00:02:59.500 that don't have COVID-19 in a room, away from their family, away from their friends,

00:03:04.800 away from their siblings, and this is all just hunky-dory.

00:03:08.380 Now, the idea of bubble-wrapping children has been a recurring theme throughout the pandemic.

00:03:13.640 We know that transmission through kids is very rare.

00:03:16.860 We know that serious effect of COVID-19 on children is virtually non-existent.

00:03:22.060 So the idea that we need to teach kids as though they are the potential patient zero

00:03:26.860 of any number of outbreaks in the home or in child care settings just isn't right,

00:03:31.840 which is why getting them back to school has been so important,

00:03:34.820 and by the way, supported by the evidence.

00:03:38.080 My colleague Anthony Fury wrote a great piece about this story at the Toronto Sun

00:03:42.480 in which he talked to a couple of experts

00:03:44.420 and found that no one can actually identify where the science is in this.

00:03:50.360 This is cruel punishment for a child, especially for younger children, 4 to 10 years old,

00:03:55.440 says microbiologist Susan Richardson.

00:03:58.360 She says shutting off a child for even 14 days could produce significant

00:04:02.740 and long-lasting emotional and psychological effects.

00:04:06.600 Well, yeah, no doubt.

00:04:08.060 Tess Clifford, who is the director of the psychology clinic at Queen's University,

00:04:12.000 says it's, first off, not even practically possible

00:04:15.300 and highly likely to cause harm to children

00:04:18.220 who would already be experiencing considerable distress

00:04:21.320 with having to remain at home.

00:04:24.140 And Hamilton Health Science infectious disease specialist Martha Fulford said,

00:04:28.540 I don't understand how any health care professional has moved so far away

00:04:31.880 from the fundamentals of public health and of doing no harm

00:04:34.760 that they would think that basically incarcerating a child in a room for 14 days

00:04:39.420 is in any way justified.

00:04:42.360 This is not something that takes a rocket scientist

00:04:45.280 or an infectious disease specialist to figure out,

00:04:48.040 although I'm glad that they are lending their names

00:04:49.820 with the many post-nominal letters behind them

00:04:52.020 to explain why this is so dangerous.

00:04:54.580 And you may think, okay, well, this is just one particular region

00:04:57.580 in one part of Ontario, which is just one province in Canada.

00:05:01.320 But what we've seen time and time again

00:05:03.180 is that the fringiest beliefs one day tend to become normalized

00:05:07.760 the next day and the day after and so on and so forth.

00:05:12.360 So when I see one public health agency telling parents

00:05:15.360 that they need to lock up their asymptomatic kids for two weeks just in case 1.00

00:05:19.120 and start feeding them through a slot in the door

00:05:22.000 like they are some sort of animal,

00:05:24.040 I am outraged that anyone would think this is justifiable.

00:05:29.980 And I would say that most loving parents

00:05:32.620 would rather have their family just deal with COVID-19

00:05:36.620 and deal with the consequences of it

00:05:38.640 rather than deal with this,

00:05:40.620 rather than taking a child who may be...

00:05:42.500 They say child care, not just school.

00:05:44.460 We're not talking about 17-year-old high school students

00:05:46.980 who might love a house arrest with their own bathroom

00:05:49.120 and room service every day.

00:05:50.640 We're talking about kids as young as, what, three, four years old.

00:05:55.160 The idea that anyone would think this is justifiable

00:05:59.160 is insane.

00:06:00.580 And these are the so-called experts.

00:06:02.620 I've talked in the past about the tyranny of experts,

00:06:04.880 rule by experts.

00:06:06.260 These people that aren't concerned about civil liberties,

00:06:08.620 they aren't concerned about mental health,

00:06:10.500 they aren't concerned about the economy,

00:06:12.020 they aren't concerned about all of these other things

00:06:13.960 that are negatively affected by their lockdown restrictions.

00:06:17.640 Which is why when any government, federal or provincial,

00:06:20.860 decides to completely abdicate its decision-making capability

00:06:24.420 to the one-track mind so-called health tables,

00:06:28.560 we see a lot of concerns like this

00:06:31.280 that are not getting nearly enough attention.

00:06:33.440 And by the way, this little handout from Peel Region

00:06:36.320 was covered by the Toronto Sun,

00:06:38.300 it was covered by Postmillennial,

00:06:39.960 it was huge on Twitter.

00:06:41.400 I did not see much mainstream media coverage.

00:06:44.400 Now, I'm not saying it wasn't there,

00:06:45.640 I didn't do an exhaustive search,

00:06:47.420 but I did not see much mainstream media coverage of it at all.

00:06:51.720 Is everyone just so desensitized to this?

00:06:54.060 Is this just the norm by now?

00:06:55.860 Or is this old news for a lot of parents?

00:06:57.700 Because they've been told similar things

00:06:59.460 by their own school boards or health units

00:07:01.440 or whatever the case may be.

00:07:03.820 But this is where you get very much into that territory

00:07:07.200 at which point the cure is worse than the disease

00:07:11.160 or the so-called cure

00:07:12.280 because no one is being cured

00:07:13.500 by locking a child up for 14 days

00:07:15.960 and being told they can't even play with their siblings.

00:07:18.400 First, we take away their school,

00:07:19.760 then we take away their friends,

00:07:21.400 then we take away their family.

00:07:23.380 And, you know, I had a conversation

00:07:24.940 with someone not that long ago that has stuck with me.

00:07:27.560 I don't have children, as you know,

00:07:29.440 as I've talked about in the past,

00:07:30.720 but I talked to someone who had a child

00:07:32.880 who is, I believe, eight or nine years old.

00:07:35.580 And as we now pass the one-year mark of this pandemic,

00:07:40.060 this is one-eighth of their child's life.

00:07:43.200 If you take away the first couple of years

00:07:45.320 where they're not really engaging in the world

00:07:47.040 in the same way, it becomes even more stark.

00:07:49.380 One-sixth of their alert, aware, lucid life

00:07:52.560 that has been consumed by lockdowns.

00:07:54.700 And as we go further and further down,

00:07:57.340 the greater the proportion comes of children's lives

00:08:00.840 that have been dominated by mask wearing

00:08:02.980 and social distancing and no socialization

00:08:05.860 because, well, that is antithetical

00:08:07.820 to what is being fostered in the culture today.

00:08:11.160 And when I say the longer it goes on,

00:08:13.180 there's a reason for that

00:08:14.220 because we see the rhetoric really moving towards this point

00:08:17.500 where it's not ending anytime soon.

00:08:20.180 Take a look at this story in the National Post.

00:08:22.420 COVID cases are falling globally,

00:08:24.400 but it's not over for anybody,

00:08:27.140 WHO officially cautions.

00:08:29.140 Now, here on the Andrew Lawton Show,

00:08:30.980 we don't defer to the WHO on, well, pretty much anything,

00:08:33.960 but we know that governments around the world are,

00:08:36.820 including our own here in Canada.

00:08:38.240 So when they put out these edicts,

00:08:40.120 it's important to pay attention to them.

00:08:42.200 One spokesperson for the World Health Organization,

00:08:45.160 Dr. Mike Ryan, said that,

00:08:47.340 well, you know, it's great we see in some countries

00:08:49.040 some downward trends,

00:08:50.300 but in other countries we don't see downward trends.

00:08:52.880 So therefore, Dr. Ryan cautions,

00:08:54.720 it's a lesson for all of us that this is not over.

00:08:58.300 It's not over for anybody

00:08:59.880 and any relaxation of our resolve is dangerous.

00:09:03.680 We need to be very aware.

00:09:05.020 The virus still has a lot of energy

00:09:06.880 and if the measures we apply are not persistent,

00:09:09.640 comprehensive and aimed at continuing

00:09:12.060 to suppress transmission while introducing vaccine,

00:09:15.420 we will pay a price.

00:09:17.500 Yes, persistence and suppression are the key words there

00:09:20.960 because it's pretty much the only thing

00:09:22.760 governments are persisting at is suppression.

00:09:25.400 And again, a divide, a great divide

00:09:27.520 between actual public health measures

00:09:29.480 and COVID theater that's taking place.

00:09:32.460 Now, I know I've had a lot of disagreement

00:09:34.520 from listeners on this

00:09:35.640 and I don't particularly care

00:09:36.820 we can all have our own perspectives.

00:09:38.620 I do take the virus seriously.

00:09:40.420 I do think people,

00:09:41.360 especially those with comorbidities,

00:09:43.500 those with pre-existing conditions

00:09:44.900 need to take it seriously.

00:09:46.740 But there is zero justification

00:09:48.980 for the in-home imprisonment,

00:09:51.960 for house arrest of children.

00:09:53.820 There is zero justification

00:09:55.600 for completely writing off

00:09:57.360 any sort of economic growth

00:09:59.180 or even economic survival

00:10:00.720 just because we've determined

00:10:02.240 that lockdowns make it look like

00:10:03.920 we're doing something about this

00:10:05.520 when we know they are not effective.

00:10:07.960 All they do is delay the inevitable.

00:10:10.140 They don't achieve the stated result.

00:10:13.640 And if we are, in fact,

00:10:15.260 waiting for the vaccine,

00:10:16.560 that's what the WHO has said there,

00:10:18.180 that, well, we just have to keep

00:10:19.440 the suppression of this long enough

00:10:21.360 that we can all get vaccinated.

00:10:22.560 Well, Canadians are screwed. 0.96

00:10:24.960 Canada has proven itself

00:10:26.140 to be unable to do this vaccine rollout.

00:10:29.080 But I remember when we were

00:10:30.040 in 20th place in the world

00:10:31.740 and then 30th and then 35th and 40th.

00:10:34.580 And now we are all,

00:10:35.980 there are almost 50 countries

00:10:38.000 ahead of Canada

00:10:39.080 as far as their share

00:10:40.920 of their citizens and residents

00:10:42.460 getting vaccinated.

00:10:44.080 And Canada is just nowhere near

00:10:46.140 even being in the ballpark.

00:10:47.980 And we're not just talking about Israel

00:10:49.760 and the United Arab Emirates,

00:10:51.320 which have done particularly well on this,

00:10:53.300 but countries that one doesn't think of

00:10:55.300 as being at the forefront

00:10:56.400 of, well, anything.

00:10:58.300 No offense to places

00:10:59.920 like the Seychelles in Indonesia,

00:11:01.720 which are not exactly developed nations,

00:11:04.340 but they're doing better than Canada

00:11:06.360 in a lot of metrics

00:11:07.780 at getting their citizens vaccinated.

00:11:10.760 Israel is preparing to reopen things 0.71

00:11:12.760 in a matter of months.

00:11:14.380 Now, I've got some very significant qualms

00:11:16.700 with Israel's vaccine passport approach,

00:11:19.300 but you know what?

00:11:20.180 Israel is at least opening 0.59

00:11:21.980 and they have a track that they're on

00:11:24.280 in which they want to say

00:11:25.480 that the country is open

00:11:26.540 and there are going to be a lot of Canadians

00:11:28.600 that are finding

00:11:29.740 that they are actually excluded

00:11:31.600 from being able to go to certain places

00:11:33.820 because those places all expect

00:11:35.940 anyone being there to be vaccinated

00:11:38.100 and Canadians are going to be 0.99

00:11:39.660 at the back of this.

00:11:41.180 And it's why I have some sympathy

00:11:42.360 for the now former head

00:11:44.400 of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board,

00:11:47.120 Mark Machen,

00:11:47.940 who decided that he would go with his partner

00:11:50.260 to the United Arab Emirates,

00:11:52.020 to the Emirate of Dubai,

00:11:53.500 to get vaccinated.

00:11:54.720 Now, there may be more to the story

00:11:56.880 than has been reported.

00:11:58.060 Mark Machen said it was a personal trip

00:12:00.460 and he didn't want it to become

00:12:01.660 the subject of discussion,

00:12:03.820 but the Wall Street Journal reported

00:12:05.220 that he was over in the UAE

00:12:06.860 and I believe is still there

00:12:08.240 awaiting his second dose

00:12:09.520 to get vaccinated.

00:12:11.560 Now, we've decided to make travel

00:12:13.080 the unforgivable sin

00:12:14.260 of Canadian politics.

00:12:15.780 A lot of people still paying

00:12:17.080 for Rod Phillips,

00:12:18.100 the former Ontario finance minister's

00:12:20.500 decision to spend Christmas

00:12:22.240 in St. Bart's.

00:12:23.680 But the reality is

00:12:24.660 that travel itself

00:12:25.900 was not the problem.

00:12:27.580 And I know we talked about this

00:12:28.660 back in December.

00:12:30.240 The issue was Rod Phillips traveling

00:12:32.000 while he was a minister

00:12:33.520 in a government

00:12:34.200 that was telling people

00:12:35.180 not to travel.

00:12:36.400 The hypocrisy

00:12:37.140 rather than the travel

00:12:38.640 was the problem.

00:12:39.720 And that's why I wasn't too upset

00:12:41.360 when a bunch of Alberta 0.80

00:12:42.380 cabinet ministers

00:12:43.100 had been in Hawaii

00:12:44.440 as well as staffers

00:12:45.660 in Jason Kenney's government

00:12:46.780 because that government

00:12:47.980 hadn't been telling people

00:12:49.320 not to travel

00:12:50.160 so they weren't the problem.

00:12:52.040 Now, Mark Machin

00:12:52.800 is a guy who hobnobs

00:12:54.200 with the global elite.

00:12:55.340 He's spoken at the Davos Forum.

00:12:57.300 He was actually there

00:12:58.840 a few weeks ago

00:12:59.640 at the virtual Davos Summit

00:13:01.500 talking about who knows what

00:13:02.820 because it was behind closed doors.

00:13:04.600 So there are lots of questions

00:13:05.640 one might raise about him

00:13:07.280 but I do not for a second

00:13:09.120 judge him based on

00:13:10.360 wanting to get vaccinated

00:13:11.940 when it seems like

00:13:13.040 no one in Canada

00:13:13.920 is going to

00:13:14.880 for quite some time.

00:13:17.460 But this is now enough

00:13:18.980 to get him ousted.

00:13:20.320 Now, I think that

00:13:21.480 there's a big challenge

00:13:22.780 when Canadians start seeing

00:13:24.020 that the elites play

00:13:24.900 by different rules

00:13:25.840 than the rest of us plebs do. 0.51

00:13:27.840 And that's perhaps

00:13:28.620 the great injustice

00:13:29.480 in what happened

00:13:30.640 with Mark Machin.

00:13:31.500 Canadians that don't have

00:13:32.420 the ability to hop on a plane

00:13:33.720 and go to UAE 0.53

00:13:35.000 that can't afford

00:13:35.720 the quarantine hotel

00:13:36.780 upon their return to Canada

00:13:38.120 that can't take the time off work

00:13:39.900 or can't work remotely

00:13:40.860 that they see someone

00:13:42.240 who's handling their money

00:13:43.480 going and doing this thing

00:13:44.660 they never could.

00:13:45.480 Well, unfortunately the world

00:13:47.240 has always been filled

00:13:48.400 with that inequality.

00:13:50.100 But if you take a purely

00:13:51.320 utilitarian view of this matter

00:13:53.320 well, that is one fewer person

00:13:55.620 or two fewer people

00:13:56.680 actually in the line

00:13:57.840 waiting to get vaccinated

00:13:58.980 in Canada.

00:14:00.160 He didn't go and bill

00:14:01.600 the taxpayers for it

00:14:02.740 as far as we know

00:14:03.520 he went on his own dime

00:14:04.860 on his own time

00:14:06.040 got vaccinated

00:14:07.340 well, that's one fewer person

00:14:09.520 two fewer people

00:14:10.480 that Canadians need

00:14:11.680 to wait behind

00:14:12.320 to get vaccinated

00:14:13.160 which is a great service

00:14:14.700 to this country

00:14:15.340 if you ask me.

00:14:17.320 He's not

00:14:18.000 again, so far as I can tell

00:14:19.800 been telling anyone else

00:14:20.820 not to travel.

00:14:22.280 The federal government has.

00:14:24.040 The federal government

00:14:25.000 has set out rules

00:14:25.920 that only affect

00:14:26.780 ordinary people

00:14:27.680 because if you've got

00:14:28.440 enough money

00:14:28.960 if you've got enough flexibility

00:14:30.100 you can actually do

00:14:31.520 whatever you want.

00:14:33.000 And that's the reality

00:14:33.980 of this pandemic

00:14:34.820 is that

00:14:35.500 the restrictions

00:14:36.740 are targeting

00:14:37.580 a certain class

00:14:38.700 of people

00:14:39.260 that the government

00:14:40.460 really doesn't care about.

00:14:42.980 And this is the real

00:14:44.080 injustice from the government

00:14:45.660 at this

00:14:46.180 is that they're putting

00:14:47.360 all these rules

00:14:48.040 and measures forward

00:14:48.940 taking something

00:14:49.800 that is technically legal

00:14:51.000 it's not illegal

00:14:51.660 to travel

00:14:52.220 it's not illegal

00:14:52.940 to leave your country

00:14:53.860 or to return

00:14:54.740 to your country

00:14:55.380 but they're making it

00:14:56.440 so cumbersome

00:14:57.720 and cost prohibitive

00:14:58.800 that the average person

00:15:00.260 cannot do it

00:15:01.180 but the super rich

00:15:02.000 the elites

00:15:02.500 well, they can do

00:15:03.340 whatever they want

00:15:03.940 because they just

00:15:04.680 have the money

00:15:05.260 to make it happen.

00:15:06.100 And the Trudeau government

00:15:08.460 doesn't actually seem

00:15:09.740 to care about that

00:15:10.640 they know what's happening

00:15:11.580 just take a look

00:15:12.780 at the influx of people

00:15:13.920 at these quarantine hotels

00:15:15.280 in the rollout of it

00:15:16.880 they had massive

00:15:17.960 massive numbers of people

00:15:19.340 that were trying

00:15:20.560 to go into hotels

00:15:21.480 so much so that

00:15:22.280 there were hours long waits

00:15:23.520 people were

00:15:24.120 busting the booking line

00:15:25.740 because there were

00:15:26.420 so many people

00:15:27.140 coming back into the country 1.00

00:15:28.320 that were affected by this.

00:15:30.680 Is travel really the problem?

00:15:32.580 Is it fair to

00:15:33.320 scapegoat travelers

00:15:34.360 the way the government has

00:15:35.480 just to distract

00:15:36.660 from their own

00:15:38.040 ineffectiveness

00:15:38.980 and ineptitude

00:15:40.000 in getting vaccines

00:15:41.760 in managing the pandemic

00:15:43.600 domestically

00:15:44.360 in getting aid

00:15:45.540 to where the aid

00:15:46.300 is required?

00:15:47.700 You may not like

00:15:48.700 that people are traveling abroad

00:15:49.940 that's fine

00:15:50.480 it's not for everyone

00:15:51.440 but don't play

00:15:53.180 the government's game

00:15:54.460 when they try

00:15:55.400 to get everyone

00:15:55.920 to look at all

00:15:56.540 of these other things

00:15:57.280 that are happening

00:15:57.900 so that they don't look 0.79

00:15:59.020 at what's happening

00:15:59.720 right here in Canada.

00:16:01.480 We've got to take a break

00:16:02.540 when we come back

00:16:03.220 more of the Andrew Lawton Show

00:16:04.520 here on True North.

00:16:07.160 You're tuned in

00:16:08.260 to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:16:13.040 Welcome back

00:16:13.820 to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:16:15.260 As I mentioned

00:16:15.920 at the top of the program

00:16:17.100 I happen to be

00:16:17.960 in British Columbia

00:16:19.080 right now

00:16:19.560 beautiful BC

00:16:20.340 and given that I haven't

00:16:21.760 seen another human being

00:16:22.820 that I'm not married to

00:16:23.900 for you know

00:16:24.640 the last year

00:16:25.320 I thought it would be

00:16:25.860 a good opportunity

00:16:26.540 to chat with a guest

00:16:28.180 I was going to have

00:16:28.740 on the show anyway

00:16:29.460 this week

00:16:29.940 but it just so happens

00:16:30.840 we are in the same

00:16:32.300 general vicinity

00:16:33.500 and that is

00:16:34.180 Angelo Isidoro

00:16:35.300 who you may know

00:16:36.140 as the host of

00:16:36.920 Cancel This

00:16:37.720 a very popular podcast

00:16:39.220 on the post-millennial

00:16:40.640 but who ironically

00:16:42.340 went through

00:16:42.920 the cancel mob

00:16:44.140 himself

00:16:44.860 in recent weeks

00:16:46.360 and I'm very glad

00:16:47.240 is willing to

00:16:48.000 speak up about it.

00:16:49.060 Now this is

00:16:49.860 particularly interesting

00:16:50.960 because he has

00:16:51.760 perspective

00:16:52.260 at seeing this

00:16:53.460 both as a

00:16:54.380 cancelee

00:16:55.080 but also as

00:16:56.580 a journalist

00:16:57.240 so we'll talk

00:16:57.900 about this

00:16:58.280 with Angelo Isidoro

00:16:59.580 here on

00:17:00.440 the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:17:01.420 Angelo good to talk

00:17:02.600 to you

00:17:02.740 thanks for joining

00:17:03.500 me today.

00:17:04.120 Thank you for having me.

00:17:05.480 I want to talk about

00:17:06.420 this from a couple

00:17:07.400 of different perspectives

00:17:08.340 Angelo

00:17:08.800 because you went

00:17:10.260 through something

00:17:11.280 that you've covered

00:17:12.260 a great many times

00:17:13.380 in other people

00:17:14.160 and in a lot of ways

00:17:16.460 I think that makes

00:17:17.380 your story more

00:17:18.240 sympathetic

00:17:18.640 because a lot

00:17:19.900 of the times

00:17:20.400 people who themselves

00:17:21.880 have been part

00:17:22.640 of cancel mobs

00:17:23.540 will get cancelled

00:17:24.320 and it's very difficult

00:17:25.260 for people to

00:17:25.940 find sympathy for them

00:17:27.440 whereas you've

00:17:28.640 understood before

00:17:29.640 going through

00:17:30.260 what you went through

00:17:31.000 that this was a problem

00:17:31.980 for quite a while.

00:17:33.360 Yeah and it's helped

00:17:33.840 me be more

00:17:34.360 analytical of it

00:17:35.440 because it is

00:17:36.360 a bizarre situation

00:17:37.260 where I mean

00:17:38.400 for the past

00:17:39.040 four years

00:17:40.160 I've been hosting

00:17:40.800 speakers like

00:17:41.400 Jordan Peterson

00:17:42.060 and Ben Shapiro

00:17:42.840 and now I'm doing

00:17:43.360 this podcast

00:17:43.940 and even my writing

00:17:45.360 is all situated

00:17:46.640 around cancel culture

00:17:47.740 so it's very bizarre

00:17:49.280 to have it happen

00:17:50.700 to you right

00:17:51.520 it's strange

00:17:53.780 but it gave me

00:17:55.000 a perspective

00:17:55.880 that is very nuanced

00:17:56.960 where I as a journalist

00:17:58.400 and as a writer

00:17:59.640 as someone who

00:18:00.320 looks at this stuff

00:18:01.480 can analyze it

00:18:02.980 from a perspective

00:18:03.640 of this is how

00:18:04.620 this animal works

00:18:05.580 this is how the mob works

00:18:06.740 this is what they do first

00:18:07.840 this is why they use

00:18:09.020 that word

00:18:09.520 this is how it happens

00:18:10.600 and this is how

00:18:11.140 they ruin your life

00:18:11.900 I have to say

00:18:13.080 that reporting on it

00:18:14.500 and speaking to people

00:18:15.520 is very different

00:18:16.240 from having it happen

00:18:17.320 to you

00:18:17.760 it's obviously

00:18:18.840 completely different

00:18:19.920 and that's sort of

00:18:20.640 what frazzled me

00:18:21.320 the most was

00:18:22.080 although I've realized

00:18:23.800 and I've known

00:18:24.820 that the cancel mob

00:18:26.060 is malevolent

00:18:27.180 having it actually

00:18:28.460 happen to you

00:18:29.320 is a whole other story

00:18:30.340 it's kind of horrifying

00:18:32.420 let's talk about

00:18:34.120 what happened

00:18:34.740 because in a lot

00:18:36.260 of perspectives

00:18:36.960 this may not have

00:18:38.600 tripped a lot of

00:18:39.600 people's radars

00:18:40.240 nationwide

00:18:40.720 this was a regional

00:18:42.020 story to some extent

00:18:43.200 but for you

00:18:44.080 it becomes your whole world

00:18:45.440 and we'll talk about that

00:18:46.660 you have been involved

00:18:48.280 as you've just mentioned

00:18:49.180 in various forms

00:18:50.220 of political activism

00:18:51.340 you were sitting

00:18:52.440 on the board

00:18:53.000 of a municipal

00:18:53.820 political party

00:18:54.680 in Vancouver

00:18:55.300 which is a phenomenon

00:18:56.800 that people

00:18:57.400 outside of Vancouver

00:18:58.240 might not understand

00:18:59.080 as much

00:18:59.600 the non-partisan association

00:19:01.200 and there was a story

00:19:03.540 that was presented

00:19:04.900 as one

00:19:05.560 about the NPA

00:19:07.240 but ended up

00:19:08.500 becoming about you

00:19:09.480 in a lot of ways

00:19:10.240 and a photograph

00:19:11.060 of you making

00:19:12.520 this gesture

00:19:13.420 that I've always

00:19:14.500 known in my life

00:19:15.260 as being about

00:19:16.120 nothing but the word

00:19:17.080 okay

00:19:17.520 and I mean

00:19:19.220 I'm going to get cancelled

00:19:20.140 for doing that

00:19:20.760 in the show

00:19:21.220 I was about to say

00:19:22.240 that I have nothing

00:19:24.120 to do with this guy

00:19:25.120 we will blur it out

00:19:26.100 we will blur it out

00:19:26.820 in the final

00:19:27.240 but you did that

00:19:28.240 you were wearing

00:19:28.820 a Make America Great Again hat

00:19:30.880 and this was presented

00:19:32.560 as evidence

00:19:33.340 that this organization

00:19:34.300 you were with

00:19:34.920 had gone far right

00:19:36.480 does that sum up

00:19:38.100 at the very surface level

00:19:39.660 the story

00:19:40.280 yeah it does

00:19:41.260 it's a strange story

00:19:42.460 because it is dressed

00:19:43.500 in a hyper localized issue

00:19:45.740 which is the

00:19:46.420 non-partisan association

00:19:47.560 out of everything I do

00:19:49.200 a volunteer position

00:19:51.240 that is completely innocuous

00:19:52.820 I mean I'm interested

00:19:53.560 in housing

00:19:54.200 that's why I got

00:19:55.240 involved in it

00:19:55.900 they used that

00:19:57.440 as a vehicle

00:19:58.560 to cancel me

00:20:00.140 and I've since been

00:20:00.960 essentially forced

00:20:01.840 to resign from that position

00:20:03.100 so as you said

00:20:04.620 you know

00:20:06.100 this outlet

00:20:06.740 took a picture of me

00:20:08.480 four years ago

00:20:09.340 when I was

00:20:09.980 you know

00:20:10.280 a first year

00:20:10.960 university student

00:20:11.860 and I was going

00:20:13.380 to a protest

00:20:14.120 happening in

00:20:14.860 downtown Vancouver

00:20:15.780 which was

00:20:16.460 the Trump Tower

00:20:17.480 was opening

00:20:18.180 and people were upset

00:20:18.980 so me and

00:20:20.460 other college kids

00:20:21.640 thought it would be

00:20:22.660 you know

00:20:23.380 silly and dumb

00:20:24.580 to wear a Trump hat

00:20:26.280 and go

00:20:27.380 and mess with people

00:20:28.760 and of course

00:20:29.360 at that time

00:20:30.560 in February of 2017

00:20:32.380 that gesture

00:20:33.760 besides being known

00:20:35.280 innocuously as okay

00:20:36.620 was also a silly

00:20:37.980 mimicry of Trump

00:20:39.480 right

00:20:39.760 if you watch even

00:20:40.460 SNL with Alec Baldwin

00:20:41.740 playing Trump

00:20:42.540 Trump has always had

00:20:43.500 really bizarre hand gestures

00:20:44.740 so that's what that was

00:20:45.900 later on

00:20:47.120 it turned into

00:20:47.720 something else

00:20:48.340 but they took that photo

00:20:49.940 sat on it

00:20:51.280 for four years now

00:20:53.120 and waited until

00:20:54.500 you know

00:20:55.160 this opportunity

00:20:55.940 to release it

00:20:56.780 under the context

00:20:58.240 of well

00:20:59.180 the Christchurch shooter

00:21:00.300 used the same gesture

00:21:01.500 January 6th

00:21:03.320 just happened

00:21:03.760 the insurrection

00:21:04.440 in the states

00:21:05.060 they wait for things

00:21:06.380 to happen

00:21:06.780 and then retroactively

00:21:07.740 try to ruin your life

00:21:08.820 so that's what

00:21:10.020 they did there

00:21:10.740 again they dressed it up

00:21:12.320 as a municipal issue

00:21:13.460 so even the mayor

00:21:14.940 of Vancouver

00:21:15.560 got involved

00:21:16.360 and released a statement

00:21:17.340 under the city government

00:21:18.840 so it turned into

00:21:22.140 this big hyper-localized issue

00:21:23.900 but it's a broader issue

00:21:25.220 that relates to

00:21:26.880 really one of the most

00:21:28.220 egregious

00:21:28.940 and obviously unbiased

00:21:30.060 but an egregious case

00:21:31.880 of cancel culture

00:21:32.720 because it's a total lie

00:21:33.940 it's a total fabrication

00:21:35.560 and that's

00:21:37.020 I'd say at the crux

00:21:38.460 of cancel culture

00:21:39.420 is you take a

00:21:40.660 two-dimensional

00:21:41.480 caricature of someone

00:21:43.320 which may or may not

00:21:44.320 be true

00:21:44.780 it either captures

00:21:46.400 someone's worst moment

00:21:47.800 or it completely

00:21:49.000 concocts a moment

00:21:50.300 in an image

00:21:50.840 and it tries to

00:21:52.400 apply that

00:21:53.200 to every other facet

00:21:54.360 of their life

00:21:55.280 and in your case

00:21:56.320 you actually have

00:21:58.020 a body of work

00:21:58.880 to speak of

00:21:59.580 and I think that's why

00:22:00.340 that's so difficult

00:22:01.060 is that in the

00:22:01.840 nearly four years

00:22:03.120 since that photo

00:22:03.940 you have put on record

00:22:05.620 what you stand for

00:22:06.880 what you believe in

00:22:07.760 and I've heard

00:22:08.900 episodes that you've done

00:22:10.040 I've had some

00:22:10.780 exchanges with you

00:22:11.880 it doesn't fit

00:22:13.600 and if you were

00:22:15.260 a blank slate

00:22:16.080 and they didn't

00:22:17.040 have anything else

00:22:17.740 to judge you on

00:22:18.420 but that photo

00:22:18.980 sure maybe you could

00:22:19.800 ask some questions

00:22:20.500 but that I think

00:22:21.880 is what I find

00:22:22.520 the worst about this

00:22:23.380 is that there's

00:22:23.780 no understanding

00:22:24.740 that people grow

00:22:25.480 there's no understanding

00:22:26.400 that hey this snapshot

00:22:27.800 in time might have

00:22:29.080 represented something else

00:22:30.360 yeah I think it's

00:22:31.940 more difficult for them

00:22:33.000 because I've been

00:22:34.180 so public in my life

00:22:35.600 and a lot of that

00:22:36.500 is intentional

00:22:37.000 because when you are

00:22:38.040 in politics

00:22:38.940 when you're writing

00:22:39.420 about politics

00:22:39.980 you're just engaged

00:22:40.880 it's very important

00:22:42.160 that you don't do

00:22:42.920 this PR recommended

00:22:44.280 thing of just be silent

00:22:45.560 don't answer

00:22:46.300 don't do it

00:22:46.860 because at the end

00:22:47.980 of the day

00:22:48.380 when you look at me

00:22:49.420 whether you're

00:22:49.980 listening to me

00:22:50.540 or you look at my face

00:22:51.440 I don't match

00:22:53.060 what they're being

00:22:54.000 what they're accusing me of

00:22:55.520 yeah I don't look at you

00:22:56.840 and see white supremacists

00:22:58.480 yeah exactly

00:22:59.660 and even if you

00:23:00.360 if you listen to my content

00:23:01.640 like I'm a pretty

00:23:02.500 moderate guy

00:23:03.500 so they intentionally

00:23:05.360 ignore that

00:23:06.020 to such a degree

00:23:06.860 where you know

00:23:08.080 when these outlets

00:23:08.900 want to defame you

00:23:10.140 they're not acting

00:23:12.460 in good faith

00:23:13.100 so whether you issue

00:23:14.120 a statement or not

00:23:15.120 it doesn't really

00:23:16.000 make a difference

00:23:16.680 you know

00:23:17.080 to one of the outlets

00:23:18.220 I issued a statement

00:23:19.160 I provided links

00:23:20.160 explaining that

00:23:20.920 this was essentially

00:23:22.600 a hoax

00:23:23.180 that was co-opted later

00:23:24.600 and this etc

00:23:25.660 and they intentionally

00:23:27.080 ignore it

00:23:27.680 because it doesn't

00:23:28.440 fit their narrative

00:23:29.080 because if that gesture

00:23:30.100 doesn't mean anything

00:23:31.120 what's the story

00:23:32.780 how do we destroy

00:23:34.560 this person's life

00:23:35.560 right

00:23:36.040 they have to build

00:23:37.800 you up into a villain

00:23:38.800 and unfortunately

00:23:39.940 there are very few

00:23:40.920 mediums where you

00:23:41.660 have the opportunity

00:23:42.400 to speak freely

00:23:43.320 you know

00:23:44.640 True North is a great

00:23:45.580 example of that

00:23:46.420 where it's uncensored

00:23:49.080 not in the way

00:23:49.720 that this is explicit

00:23:50.620 but in the way

00:23:51.660 that nuance is applied

00:23:52.780 to the conversation

00:23:53.680 so I'm lucky

00:23:56.080 in the sense

00:23:56.640 that I have

00:23:57.360 a modest following

00:23:59.540 again I still find

00:24:01.900 it bizarre

00:24:02.380 that I was cancelled

00:24:03.420 when you know

00:24:04.280 I quite frankly

00:24:05.500 don't matter that much

00:24:06.700 to be on the front

00:24:07.460 cover of the paper

00:24:08.420 but I think

00:24:09.600 I was turned

00:24:10.100 into a political

00:24:11.040 mascot

00:24:11.500 and I'm somewhat

00:24:13.780 lucky that I do

00:24:14.680 have that following

00:24:15.360 others aren't

00:24:16.280 there's a

00:24:17.000 I believe

00:24:17.580 a laborer

00:24:19.340 in California

00:24:20.020 did the same gesture

00:24:21.300 and I think

00:24:22.280 he was just

00:24:22.660 flicking a booger

00:24:23.420 or something

00:24:24.040 but someone

00:24:24.800 took a picture

00:24:25.480 of him

00:24:25.720 and he lost

00:24:26.200 his job

00:24:26.680 wow

00:24:27.100 right

00:24:27.780 so when we

00:24:29.320 talk about

00:24:29.780 cancel culture

00:24:30.400 we get so

00:24:31.020 into the weeds

00:24:31.700 of you know

00:24:32.600 Gina Carano

00:24:33.540 or what's happening

00:24:35.040 to that celebrity

00:24:35.940 or this celebrity

00:24:36.740 but really

00:24:38.400 that's just

00:24:38.840 a vacuum

00:24:39.460 of what seems

00:24:40.440 to be happening

00:24:40.940 to normal

00:24:41.440 everyday people

00:24:42.100 now

00:24:42.340 for years

00:24:43.180 I've gotten

00:24:44.280 messages

00:24:44.740 from people

00:24:45.680 saying

00:24:46.080 I support

00:24:46.760 everything you do

00:24:47.320 but I can't

00:24:47.800 be public

00:24:48.200 about it

00:24:48.660 or this

00:24:49.200 happened to me

00:24:49.820 and I don't

00:24:50.180 know what to do

00:24:50.800 or you know

00:24:51.740 even with this

00:24:52.540 I had a lot

00:24:53.100 of people say

00:24:53.660 like this is

00:24:54.280 nonsense and

00:24:54.900 everything

00:24:55.100 but I obviously

00:24:55.660 can't be public

00:24:56.260 about it

00:24:56.820 and after a while

00:24:57.800 you begin to

00:24:58.400 realize that

00:24:59.220 we've essentially

00:24:59.880 handed you know

00:25:01.320 the keys to the

00:25:02.160 culture

00:25:02.540 to a very

00:25:03.960 vocal minority

00:25:05.120 the vast majority

00:25:06.460 of people look

00:25:07.100 at that gesture

00:25:07.660 and they're like

00:25:08.120 you know

00:25:08.620 scuba diver

00:25:09.420 means okay

00:25:10.140 if the waitress

00:25:11.000 asks you how

00:25:11.520 your food is

00:25:12.040 your mouth is

00:25:12.520 full

00:25:12.720 you do that

00:25:13.440 gesture

00:25:13.740 it means nothing

00:25:14.520 but the framing

00:25:16.060 of it is

00:25:16.960 this is widely

00:25:18.420 regarded as a

00:25:19.880 white power symbol

00:25:20.800 and even that

00:25:21.880 word widely

00:25:22.680 that is

00:25:23.980 it's all tactical

00:25:25.220 and I know it

00:25:26.480 because I'm a

00:25:27.460 journalist too

00:25:28.000 like we know

00:25:28.720 how the game

00:25:29.340 works

00:25:29.720 yes someone

00:25:30.560 who doesn't

00:25:31.640 know the

00:25:32.200 implications of

00:25:33.160 that who

00:25:34.220 themselves if you

00:25:35.260 were to flash

00:25:35.760 that sign to

00:25:36.360 them on the

00:25:36.740 street one day

00:25:37.520 would have no

00:25:39.660 idea there was

00:25:40.320 anything potentially

00:25:41.160 illicit about it

00:25:42.060 they would read

00:25:43.060 that story and

00:25:44.100 assume by the way

00:25:45.040 it's framed that

00:25:45.980 oh well he must

00:25:46.640 I didn't know it

00:25:47.420 was that but he

00:25:47.940 must have known

00:25:48.480 and that's and

00:25:49.560 that's where it

00:25:50.020 becomes so you

00:25:50.600 started imputing

00:25:51.440 motive and the

00:25:53.160 worst possible

00:25:54.000 interpretation of

00:25:55.400 what could be the

00:25:56.120 most mundane of

00:25:57.020 things

00:25:57.440 yeah well and

00:25:58.280 then of course you

00:25:59.160 have situations

00:25:59.860 like Kennedy

00:26:00.740 Stewart the

00:26:01.280 mayor of Vancouver

00:26:01.940 who probably

00:26:02.880 doesn't know

00:26:03.300 anything about

00:26:04.240 culture war

00:26:05.440 or about anything

00:26:06.500 yeah or about

00:26:07.280 anything frankly

00:26:08.000 I mean he's been

00:26:08.800 a disaster mayor

00:26:09.880 and he releases

00:26:11.340 a statement again

00:26:12.160 under the city

00:26:12.940 letterhead

00:26:13.540 yeah so the

00:26:14.360 state is calling

00:26:16.080 me a radical

00:26:16.880 he came after me

00:26:17.840 in a statement

00:26:18.240 he doesn't name

00:26:18.780 me explicitly

00:26:19.340 but he you know

00:26:20.880 very concerned

00:26:21.940 about radicalism

00:26:23.180 within you know

00:26:24.340 this other party

00:26:25.240 and people need

00:26:27.400 to realize there

00:26:28.020 are repercussions

00:26:28.720 when you say

00:26:29.560 things I know

00:26:30.180 we're all sitting

00:26:30.780 at our keyboards

00:26:31.500 and we think

00:26:32.160 that you know

00:26:32.980 this isn't real

00:26:33.580 life but when

00:26:34.700 you say that

00:26:35.320 about someone

00:26:35.980 it affects the

00:26:37.640 other person's

00:26:38.240 life I mean I've

00:26:38.920 had to resign

00:26:39.500 from this position

00:26:40.220 I've gotten

00:26:40.860 death threats

00:26:41.820 I've gotten

00:26:42.220 hate mail

00:26:42.860 very recently

00:26:44.500 a family member

00:26:45.320 of mine has

00:26:45.900 had their

00:26:46.180 workplace contacted

00:26:47.240 and now they're

00:26:47.700 under review

00:26:48.240 this is a

00:26:50.440 problem

00:26:50.940 because again

00:26:53.480 I'm in a lucky

00:26:54.240 position where

00:26:54.980 I work in media

00:26:56.260 so I'm able

00:26:57.160 to I'm already

00:26:57.940 on that battle

00:26:58.520 yeah you have

00:26:59.620 a natural

00:27:00.420 bounce back

00:27:01.200 because you have

00:27:01.940 a platform

00:27:02.460 a lot of the

00:27:03.000 people that

00:27:04.140 you've even

00:27:04.920 alluded to

00:27:05.560 don't have that

00:27:06.380 I mean for them

00:27:07.040 being called

00:27:07.860 some of the names

00:27:08.840 that have been

00:27:09.160 applied to you

00:27:09.900 is just the end

00:27:10.900 of any ambition

00:27:11.700 and any hope

00:27:12.260 they would have

00:27:12.800 at doing anything

00:27:13.760 and you'd said

00:27:15.720 something that I

00:27:16.420 thought was

00:27:17.020 very interesting

00:27:18.100 there about

00:27:18.720 the silent ally

00:27:20.980 and the silent

00:27:22.080 friend in this

00:27:23.200 and it's something

00:27:23.780 that I've been

00:27:24.660 through myself

00:27:25.320 which is why

00:27:25.960 I think there's

00:27:26.680 something that

00:27:27.540 needs to be said

00:27:28.220 about this

00:27:28.780 it starts to

00:27:30.720 reinforce your

00:27:32.020 if you responded

00:27:33.640 the way I did

00:27:34.220 when it happened

00:27:34.640 to me

00:27:34.820 it starts to

00:27:35.340 reinforce your

00:27:35.980 toxicity in some

00:27:36.960 ways

00:27:37.260 because you start

00:27:38.200 wondering

00:27:39.000 oh well

00:27:39.600 if all these

00:27:40.840 people are afraid

00:27:41.440 maybe it's true

00:27:42.140 or maybe I am

00:27:43.400 actually damaged

00:27:44.040 and you start to

00:27:44.820 view dynamics

00:27:46.680 through that lens

00:27:47.560 yeah

00:27:47.940 well you get

00:27:48.460 gas

00:27:48.900 it's gaslighting

00:27:49.860 essentially

00:27:50.340 because on

00:27:51.420 one hand

00:27:52.060 part of you

00:27:53.340 is you're so

00:27:54.540 low that you're

00:27:55.640 thankful that

00:27:56.280 someone does

00:27:57.220 validate and say

00:27:57.880 you're a good

00:27:58.280 person

00:27:58.640 even if they're

00:27:59.620 only telling you

00:28:00.380 and would never

00:28:00.920 say it anywhere

00:28:01.660 anyone else

00:28:02.360 exactly

00:28:02.900 but on the

00:28:03.460 second hand

00:28:03.800 when you look

00:28:04.180 at it you're

00:28:04.460 like there's

00:28:05.780 a problem here

00:28:06.920 because everyone

00:28:08.880 is saying that

00:28:09.820 but so few people

00:28:10.820 are willing to

00:28:11.380 say it publicly

00:28:12.100 yeah

00:28:12.600 so what is it

00:28:13.780 that we're all

00:28:14.240 afraid of

00:28:14.800 I understand

00:28:15.480 it's scary

00:28:17.100 it's scary to

00:28:18.100 have your employer

00:28:19.000 contacted

00:28:19.580 it's scary

00:28:20.120 to have people

00:28:20.720 who are

00:28:20.980 essentially

00:28:21.380 obsessed with

00:28:22.080 you to come

00:28:23.520 after you

00:28:23.920 and try to

00:28:24.300 ruin your life

00:28:24.800 the google

00:28:25.220 results are

00:28:25.860 there now

00:28:26.560 if you google

00:28:27.500 my name

00:28:28.060 white supremacist

00:28:29.080 comes up

00:28:29.660 well that

00:28:30.640 but that

00:28:31.200 that is the

00:28:32.200 dangerous part

00:28:33.040 though because

00:28:33.580 in terms of

00:28:35.000 the buzz

00:28:35.640 and the trending

00:28:36.280 topics

00:28:36.920 people move on

00:28:37.820 and in your case

00:28:38.920 it seemed like

00:28:39.400 people moved on

00:28:40.060 very quickly

00:28:40.620 but that doesn't

00:28:41.980 make it go away

00:28:42.880 for the person

00:28:43.740 and that's

00:28:45.000 the big issue

00:28:46.160 that I think

00:28:47.300 cancel culture

00:28:48.180 needs to address

00:28:49.880 or needs to

00:28:51.400 have addressed

00:28:52.320 and by extension

00:28:53.120 be obliterated

00:28:53.880 in that regard

00:28:54.520 is that

00:28:55.120 yeah the trend

00:28:56.360 moves on

00:28:56.980 the mob moves on

00:28:57.920 the horde moves on

00:28:58.880 but the carnage

00:29:00.760 that they left

00:29:01.400 behind is still

00:29:02.800 there

00:29:03.220 and there is

00:29:04.900 no remedy

00:29:06.020 that we've built

00:29:06.740 into society yet

00:29:08.000 for that

00:29:08.640 no and I think

00:29:09.820 it's intentional

00:29:10.740 on the other side

00:29:11.600 because what they do

00:29:12.620 again there's

00:29:13.340 there's an ecology

00:29:14.440 on the left

00:29:15.480 and I'm talking

00:29:16.000 about the radical left

00:29:16.960 there's an ecology

00:29:18.140 where you have

00:29:18.900 different quote unquote

00:29:19.880 journalists

00:29:20.460 that build a narrative

00:29:21.440 about someone

00:29:22.260 and that narrative

00:29:23.480 then encapsulates

00:29:25.260 the Wikipedia article

00:29:26.440 yeah

00:29:26.740 because you have

00:29:27.640 sources

00:29:28.200 well that source

00:29:29.020 says that

00:29:29.500 and that

00:29:29.780 it's the same

00:29:30.600 as the widely regarded

00:29:31.680 it's the widely regarded

00:29:32.500 he is widely believed

00:29:33.540 to be

00:29:33.980 yes

00:29:34.400 widely believed

00:29:35.240 to be by who

00:29:36.160 three crazy people

00:29:37.500 on Twitter

00:29:37.960 right

00:29:38.740 yeah

00:29:39.100 so it's

00:29:39.700 it's

00:29:40.900 it's a tactic

00:29:41.780 that is used

00:29:42.800 to mislead

00:29:44.240 the layman

00:29:44.820 the person

00:29:45.640 the person

00:29:46.320 the people

00:29:46.720 that we speak to

00:29:47.500 right

00:29:47.740 the people

00:29:48.200 who work

00:29:48.640 nine to five

00:29:49.220 they get home

00:29:49.960 they don't have time

00:29:51.420 to go through

00:29:52.500 ten hours of pages

00:29:53.840 to see

00:29:54.360 oh wow

00:29:55.020 this is a hoax

00:29:55.920 they actually lied

00:29:57.200 about this person

00:29:58.080 this is a total

00:29:59.000 complete fabrication

00:30:00.300 they don't have time

00:30:01.420 right

00:30:01.680 they read what they see

00:30:02.640 they say oh

00:30:03.060 widely regarded

00:30:03.820 as a white power symbol

00:30:04.860 they're like

00:30:05.500 oh I didn't think that

00:30:06.540 but they're saying

00:30:07.160 that that's what it is

00:30:08.200 I mean there's a reason

00:30:09.440 why trust in the media

00:30:10.720 is so low

00:30:12.140 right

00:30:12.980 it's not that

00:30:13.960 you know

00:30:14.740 populist

00:30:15.600 promoted

00:30:16.180 fake news

00:30:17.020 narratives

00:30:17.420 or whatever

00:30:17.760 like there's clearly

00:30:18.900 a problem here

00:30:19.720 and you're affecting

00:30:20.400 people's lives

00:30:21.260 and in this case

00:30:22.640 you know

00:30:23.020 I had to have

00:30:23.800 a conversation

00:30:24.440 with myself

00:30:25.180 what do I do here

00:30:27.160 do I pack my bags

00:30:28.120 and move to Alaska

00:30:29.020 like what

00:30:30.240 my

00:30:30.980 the government

00:30:31.820 of my city

00:30:32.580 is calling me

00:30:33.220 a radical

00:30:33.660 yeah

00:30:34.120 this outlet

00:30:35.120 that ranks high

00:30:35.960 on Google

00:30:36.460 is calling me

00:30:37.580 a radical

00:30:38.020 is calling me

00:30:38.760 something so

00:30:39.480 abhorrent

00:30:40.080 something my

00:30:40.700 ancestors fought

00:30:41.720 against

00:30:42.020 something that I

00:30:43.260 fight against

00:30:43.940 and I have a body

00:30:44.660 of work to show

00:30:45.320 and you try to

00:30:46.420 intellectualize it

00:30:47.400 by being like

00:30:47.840 well no I can't

00:30:48.560 be this because

00:30:49.240 here's evidence

00:30:50.220 and here's this

00:30:51.020 and you know

00:30:51.780 I'm not exactly

00:30:53.320 again I've repeated

00:30:54.760 this many times

00:30:55.380 but I'm not exactly

00:30:56.060 Hitler's wet dream 1.00

00:30:56.860 so

00:30:57.680 you try to apply

00:31:00.000 logic to it

00:31:00.820 and what you realize

00:31:01.740 is that they're

00:31:02.360 they know what

00:31:03.260 they're doing

00:31:03.660 half these people

00:31:04.740 know what they're

00:31:05.220 doing

00:31:05.440 they're acting

00:31:05.900 in bad faith

00:31:06.720 to try to

00:31:07.680 eliminate you

00:31:08.420 from the media

00:31:09.740 and the equation

00:31:10.400 but the other half

00:31:11.960 are just unknowingly

00:31:13.100 consuming it

00:31:13.860 and being a Twitter

00:31:14.560 mob

00:31:14.880 so I'm in a

00:31:16.180 position now

00:31:16.800 where again

00:31:17.980 I have to choose

00:31:18.620 whether to walk

00:31:19.220 away or to fight

00:31:19.880 and I have to

00:31:21.240 fight it

00:31:21.720 so that if

00:31:23.200 that's what my

00:31:23.840 life is now

00:31:24.560 if that's what

00:31:25.060 my life will ever

00:31:25.860 be is trying

00:31:27.100 to clear my name

00:31:28.020 what do you do

00:31:29.240 because if you

00:31:30.140 let it be

00:31:30.760 they get emboldened

00:31:32.040 we know that

00:31:32.760 these people

00:31:33.620 celebrate

00:31:34.340 when they cancel

00:31:35.420 someone

00:31:35.760 when they got

00:31:36.220 Gina fired 1.00

00:31:37.060 from the Mandalorian

00:31:38.080 they see it as

00:31:39.560 a moral

00:31:40.160 virtuous victory

00:31:41.540 and it's evil

00:31:43.160 and the only way

00:31:44.640 to defeat it

00:31:45.400 is to not

00:31:46.200 let them keep

00:31:47.100 winning

00:31:47.420 it's just

00:31:48.560 they keep getting

00:31:49.180 emboldened

00:31:49.680 and it happens

00:31:50.160 over and over again

00:31:50.760 so it's not

00:31:51.240 just about me

00:31:52.060 it's about the

00:31:53.640 next schmuck

00:31:54.740 you've talked

00:31:55.600 about legal action

00:31:57.460 and I'm wondering

00:31:58.960 if you could

00:31:59.680 elaborate on

00:32:00.480 where you think

00:32:01.420 the fight needs

00:32:02.120 to be

00:32:02.480 because there do

00:32:03.080 seem to be

00:32:03.480 two camps

00:32:03.960 there's one side

00:32:04.620 that says

00:32:04.980 you know what

00:32:05.500 we need to

00:32:06.480 you know

00:32:07.000 get into a street

00:32:07.740 fight with them

00:32:08.400 and file lawsuits

00:32:09.320 and put them

00:32:09.900 on defense

00:32:10.480 and then there's

00:32:11.560 I'd say

00:32:11.860 the more romantic

00:32:12.660 notion that

00:32:13.520 this is all

00:32:14.060 something we need

00:32:14.640 to have out

00:32:15.080 in culture

00:32:15.600 and we need

00:32:16.540 to shift the

00:32:17.040 debate

00:32:17.320 and shift the

00:32:17.780 narrative

00:32:18.000 and then there

00:32:18.380 are probably

00:32:18.640 some hybrid

00:32:19.200 positions

00:32:19.660 but where do

00:32:20.800 you

00:32:21.120 I'll ask it

00:32:22.240 in two ways

00:32:22.700 actually

00:32:23.040 where did you

00:32:24.060 before a month

00:32:25.480 ago

00:32:25.880 view the importance

00:32:27.560 of the fight

00:32:28.120 and where do

00:32:28.580 you view it

00:32:28.980 now

00:32:29.260 I see it

00:32:30.540 as a hybrid

00:32:31.140 because there

00:32:32.580 seems to be

00:32:33.120 something inherent

00:32:33.980 in the west

00:32:35.040 which is a

00:32:35.860 belief in a

00:32:36.680 justice system

00:32:37.440 right

00:32:37.720 you believe

00:32:38.580 someone wronged

00:32:39.460 you

00:32:39.620 they took

00:32:40.100 something from

00:32:40.660 you

00:32:40.820 we all are

00:32:41.960 encapsulated

00:32:42.840 in this

00:32:43.740 in this belief

00:32:44.900 that righteousness

00:32:45.820 works

00:32:46.420 that justice

00:32:47.640 works

00:32:48.220 and it's very

00:32:49.500 scary when you

00:32:50.360 realize that

00:32:50.960 that's not always

00:32:51.580 the case

00:32:52.140 so I think

00:32:52.960 on one hand

00:32:54.200 the legal aspect

00:32:55.140 is there for a

00:32:56.060 reason

00:32:56.300 you look at

00:32:57.160 the Covington

00:32:58.440 school boy

00:32:59.040 the Nick

00:33:00.060 Sandman

00:33:00.460 I believe his

00:33:00.900 name is

00:33:01.320 who essentially

00:33:02.620 had his life

00:33:03.680 ruined

00:33:04.040 over wearing

00:33:04.960 a hat

00:33:05.300 and standing

00:33:05.920 there

00:33:06.280 and he sued

00:33:08.540 and he won

00:33:09.180 I think he won

00:33:09.820 a ridiculous

00:33:10.340 amount of money

00:33:11.100 so on a legal

00:33:13.640 aspect that sets

00:33:14.600 a precedent

00:33:15.120 that is very

00:33:15.700 important

00:33:16.180 that tells

00:33:17.040 these radicals

00:33:17.960 there are

00:33:18.460 consequences

00:33:19.020 to what you

00:33:19.500 do

00:33:19.720 not just

00:33:20.240 cultural

00:33:20.740 consequences

00:33:21.340 but real

00:33:21.940 consequences

00:33:22.580 so on that

00:33:23.100 end

00:33:23.360 you know

00:33:24.900 I am suing

00:33:25.680 the mayor

00:33:26.040 I am suing

00:33:27.000 this outlet

00:33:27.480 can I sue

00:33:28.080 everyone

00:33:28.540 well no

00:33:29.100 because I'm

00:33:29.660 not

00:33:30.000 you know

00:33:30.980 it's unfortunate

00:33:32.140 that parts

00:33:34.260 of the right

00:33:34.800 have made

00:33:36.560 it extremely

00:33:37.480 commonplace

00:33:38.300 to just sue

00:33:38.780 everyone you

00:33:39.240 don't like

00:33:39.640 right

00:33:39.860 I mean

00:33:40.060 even Trump

00:33:40.520 himself

00:33:40.900 is just

00:33:41.280 I'm just

00:33:41.640 going to

00:33:41.920 sue you

00:33:42.380 the reality

00:33:44.000 is that

00:33:44.520 part of

00:33:45.540 justifying

00:33:46.180 yourself

00:33:46.560 and clearing

00:33:46.960 your name

00:33:47.400 is saying

00:33:48.180 I am

00:33:48.640 willing to

00:33:49.100 die on

00:33:49.620 this hill

00:33:50.080 I am

00:33:50.840 going to

00:33:51.060 die on

00:33:51.460 this hill

00:33:51.800 in court

00:33:52.200 and I'm

00:33:52.460 going to

00:33:52.620 go all

00:33:52.900 the way

00:33:53.120 let's do

00:33:53.500 a discovery

00:33:54.000 let's do

00:33:54.380 everything we

00:33:54.740 have to do

00:33:55.080 so that's

00:33:55.400 one aspect

00:33:56.020 but the

00:33:56.820 other aspect

00:33:57.320 is cultural

00:33:57.980 which is

00:33:58.920 having discussions

00:33:59.900 about this

00:34:00.500 which is

00:34:00.880 reporting on

00:34:01.700 it

00:34:01.940 which is

00:34:02.680 talking about

00:34:03.340 what it

00:34:03.720 does to

00:34:04.120 people's

00:34:04.560 lives

00:34:04.860 and

00:34:05.480 how it

00:34:06.440 doesn't

00:34:06.700 just happen

00:34:07.240 to the

00:34:07.640 odd

00:34:08.140 crazy

00:34:09.100 person

00:34:09.680 that is

00:34:10.100 well he's

00:34:10.580 crazy

00:34:11.020 he's

00:34:11.300 radical

00:34:11.720 he'll

00:34:12.420 get

00:34:12.620 cancelled

00:34:13.020 but it'll

00:34:13.360 never

00:34:13.540 come to

00:34:13.920 me

00:34:14.140 I'm

00:34:14.840 in the

00:34:15.060 middle

00:34:15.300 right

00:34:16.160 I mean

00:34:17.080 we're

00:34:17.340 at a

00:34:17.560 point

00:34:17.760 now

00:34:18.000 where even

00:34:18.500 some

00:34:19.300 leftists

00:34:19.920 are getting

00:34:20.340 cancelled

00:34:20.860 right

00:34:21.180 like

00:34:21.440 it's

00:34:23.060 come to

00:34:23.480 a point

00:34:23.880 where as a

00:34:24.380 culture

00:34:24.740 we need to

00:34:25.240 have a

00:34:25.500 discussion

00:34:26.000 in terms

00:34:27.240 of what

00:34:27.740 are the

00:34:28.180 consequences

00:34:28.940 of what

00:34:29.600 we've done

00:34:30.000 in the

00:34:30.240 past

00:34:30.520 and furthermore

00:34:31.420 how do we

00:34:32.340 interpret

00:34:32.860 things

00:34:33.360 because we

00:34:33.880 talk about

00:34:34.360 mistakes

00:34:34.780 made in

00:34:35.300 the past

00:34:35.800 how many

00:34:36.780 of these

00:34:37.100 cancellations

00:34:37.780 were really

00:34:38.520 mistakes

00:34:39.040 how many

00:34:39.480 of these

00:34:39.740 cancellations

00:34:40.420 were just

00:34:40.860 well-coordinated

00:34:42.200 attacks

00:34:42.920 because what

00:34:43.720 is cancel

00:34:44.260 culture

00:34:44.580 the left

00:34:44.980 says

00:34:45.260 well

00:34:45.640 can't

00:34:47.240 you know

00:34:47.440 free speech

00:34:48.080 but not

00:34:48.360 free from

00:34:48.760 consequences

00:34:49.460 it's

00:34:49.840 consequences

00:34:50.520 culture

00:34:50.960 they've

00:34:51.620 actually

00:34:52.080 to use

00:34:52.660 the left's

00:34:53.160 terms

00:34:53.480 they've

00:34:53.820 appropriated

00:34:54.900 right-wing

00:34:56.060 rhetoric

00:34:56.520 on that

00:34:57.820 because that

00:34:58.300 was always

00:34:58.920 what conservatives

00:34:59.580 used to say

00:35:00.140 well you know

00:35:00.680 what's the

00:35:01.060 marketplace

00:35:01.420 of ideas

00:35:02.120 but they're

00:35:03.020 not actually

00:35:03.820 committed

00:35:04.720 to that

00:35:05.180 they're only

00:35:05.700 committed to

00:35:06.240 that in that

00:35:06.660 narrow way

00:35:07.160 when it serves

00:35:07.680 their interest

00:35:08.240 to cancel

00:35:08.700 yeah

00:35:08.940 well in

00:35:09.620 this case

00:35:10.200 they're saying

00:35:10.660 oh you

00:35:11.040 know

00:35:11.240 so much

00:35:12.200 for the

00:35:12.520 free speech

00:35:13.140 guy

00:35:13.480 you're gonna

00:35:13.900 sue for 0.79

00:35:14.320 defamation

00:35:14.660 it's like

00:35:15.420 there are

00:35:16.220 consequences

00:35:16.860 to defaming

00:35:17.600 someone

00:35:17.920 and that is

00:35:18.440 part of the

00:35:18.880 marketplace

00:35:19.260 of ideas

00:35:19.800 exactly

00:35:20.220 there's an

00:35:21.140 expectation

00:35:21.580 of honesty

00:35:22.440 and if you

00:35:23.460 aren't living

00:35:23.900 up to that

00:35:24.400 end of the

00:35:25.100 bargain

00:35:25.440 that moral

00:35:26.020 contract

00:35:26.620 of honest

00:35:27.120 speech

00:35:27.480 you can be

00:35:28.160 sued for

00:35:28.620 exactly

00:35:28.980 so it's

00:35:29.800 funny that

00:35:30.200 they say

00:35:30.460 well it's

00:35:30.700 consequences

00:35:31.300 culture

00:35:31.720 you did

00:35:32.180 that

00:35:32.500 you deserve

00:35:33.420 the consequences

00:35:34.420 now

00:35:34.820 and it's

00:35:36.260 again

00:35:36.840 most of the

00:35:37.500 time

00:35:37.680 sometimes

00:35:38.020 people

00:35:38.680 deserve

00:35:39.220 to get

00:35:39.720 cancelled

00:35:40.080 or whatever

00:35:40.480 you know

00:35:40.800 you look

00:35:41.040 at Woody Allen

00:35:41.720 who's in

00:35:42.100 the news

00:35:42.440 right now

00:35:42.880 but in

00:35:44.620 this case

00:35:45.280 it is

00:35:45.740 something that

00:35:46.140 is manufactured

00:35:47.100 by

00:35:47.920 very few

00:35:48.320 people

00:35:48.660 who are

00:35:48.980 intentionally

00:35:49.480 trying to

00:35:50.120 make the

00:35:51.300 perception

00:35:52.260 that everyone

00:35:53.600 hates you

00:35:54.220 twitter is

00:35:54.980 not real

00:35:55.360 life

00:35:55.760 no

00:35:56.340 if you go

00:35:56.760 to 90%

00:35:57.680 of the people

00:35:58.120 on the street

00:35:58.640 and do that

00:35:59.200 gesture

00:35:59.500 they're going

00:35:59.800 to say

00:35:59.980 that means

00:36:00.360 okay

00:36:00.680 if we talk

00:36:02.000 about the

00:36:02.340 hat for a

00:36:02.840 moment

00:36:03.060 75 million

00:36:04.380 people voted

00:36:05.100 for that hat

00:36:05.820 so it's not

00:36:07.840 just a matter

00:36:08.380 of having

00:36:08.840 a discussion

00:36:09.620 on how do

00:36:10.760 we punish

00:36:11.180 people

00:36:11.500 retroactively

00:36:12.200 for their

00:36:12.680 past mistakes

00:36:13.600 it's how

00:36:14.880 do we realize

00:36:15.760 as a culture

00:36:16.600 that a lot

00:36:17.820 of the time

00:36:18.440 they weren't

00:36:19.500 mistakes

00:36:19.900 a lot of

00:36:20.360 the time

00:36:20.720 things that

00:36:21.560 happened in

00:36:21.940 the past

00:36:22.360 were just

00:36:23.040 not really

00:36:23.720 that big

00:36:24.320 of a deal

00:36:24.900 in the

00:36:26.080 grand scale

00:36:26.720 like why

00:36:27.260 are we

00:36:27.500 allowing very

00:36:28.180 few people

00:36:28.680 to coordinate

00:36:29.380 and destroy 0.82

00:36:30.740 someone

00:36:31.140 to some degree

00:36:32.240 cancel culture

00:36:32.980 is an ancient

00:36:33.680 sort of

00:36:34.340 thing

00:36:35.020 you look at

00:36:35.500 Socrates

00:36:35.980 who was

00:36:36.680 you know

00:36:36.960 taken

00:36:37.260 the human

00:36:38.380 history

00:36:38.880 is mobs

00:36:40.880 destroying

00:36:41.600 someone

00:36:42.140 right

00:36:42.660 the greatest

00:36:43.180 stories in

00:36:43.780 history

00:36:44.080 are that

00:36:44.460 it's the

00:36:45.060 psychology

00:36:45.580 of the

00:36:46.000 mob

00:36:46.360 so twitter

00:36:47.240 is not

00:36:47.540 entirely

00:36:47.900 new

00:36:48.200 but the

00:36:48.540 internet

00:36:48.860 unfortunately

00:36:49.420 has brought

00:36:50.060 out the

00:36:50.880 worst in

00:36:51.320 some of us

00:36:51.840 so yes

00:36:53.060 you've got to

00:36:53.720 do the legal

00:36:54.140 aspect to save

00:36:55.020 you know

00:36:55.420 your livelihood

00:36:56.080 but at the

00:36:57.020 same time

00:36:57.620 we need to

00:36:59.000 have an open

00:36:59.680 discussion not

00:37:00.440 only about

00:37:01.020 the past

00:37:01.940 but the

00:37:02.760 reality that

00:37:03.860 very few

00:37:04.300 people are

00:37:04.740 coordinating to

00:37:05.460 destroy people

00:37:06.220 Angelo

00:37:07.300 Isidoro

00:37:07.840 host of

00:37:08.660 cancel this

00:37:09.460 on the

00:37:09.940 post-millennial

00:37:10.580 and I'll say

00:37:11.560 survival of the

00:37:12.300 cancel mob

00:37:12.860 because you're

00:37:13.240 still standing

00:37:13.780 and you're

00:37:14.240 fighting back

00:37:14.700 thank you for

00:37:15.140 chatting about

00:37:15.620 this

00:37:15.780 thank you for

00:37:16.220 having me

00:37:17.040 that was my

00:37:18.060 interview with

00:37:18.620 Angelo Isidoro

00:37:19.440 here on the

00:37:20.400 Andrew Lawton

00:37:20.920 show and we

00:37:22.000 are just doing

00:37:22.540 the one show

00:37:23.060 this week I

00:37:23.600 am going to

00:37:23.920 be as mentioned

00:37:24.700 doing production

00:37:25.600 on assaulted

00:37:26.600 Justin Trudeau's

00:37:27.800 war on gun

00:37:29.080 owners this week

00:37:29.960 so unfortunately

00:37:30.940 we are down to

00:37:32.200 a reduced capacity

00:37:33.120 but we'll be back

00:37:33.960 with the full gusto

00:37:34.720 next week here

00:37:36.260 on true north

00:37:37.000 my thanks to you

00:37:37.720 all we'll talk

00:37:38.540 to you soon

00:37:38.920 thank you god

00:37:39.560 bless and good

00:37:40.220 day

00:37:40.480 thanks for

00:37:41.300 listening to the

00:37:41.900 Andrew Lawton

00:37:42.500 show

00:37:42.780 support the

00:37:43.540 program by

00:37:44.060 donating to

00:37:44.640 true north

00:37:45.080 at www.tnc.news

00:37:48.240 www.tnc.news.com

00:37:51.640 www.tnc.news.com

00:37:52.440 www.tnc.news.com

00:37:53.600 www.tnc.news.com

Juno News - March 01, 2021

Scapegoats and Cancel Mobs

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript