Juno News - Standing up for law-abiding gun owners

00:00:00.000 Hey everyone, welcome back to the Alberta Roundup. I'm your host Rachel Emanuel. Today I'm joined by

00:00:18.300 a very special guest, Tracy Wilson of the Canadian Coalition for Firearms Rights. You guys likely

00:00:23.340 remember that in May 2020, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's government banned over 1,500 models of

00:00:29.180 firearms through an order in council. Well, Wilson and the CCFR spent much of last week in federal court

00:00:34.380 challenging that ban and she has an update for us on how that won and what she expects

00:00:39.540 the results to be. I'm joined by Wilson now. Tracy, thank you so much for joining me today on the Alberta

00:00:44.780 Roundup. So we were just chatting a little bit and you've pretty much spent the last two weeks in

00:00:48.900 federal court where the CCFR is challenging Ottawa's firearms ban. Can you give me a little update on

00:00:55.000 what some of the arguments the CCFR has made and how you feel about the court proceedings?

00:01:00.760 Yeah, well, thanks for the opportunity. So we've been in court April 11th through the 20th. We had

00:01:05.580 an eight-day hearing here in Ottawa in the federal court, which is inside the Supreme Court building

00:01:11.300 downtown on Wellington Street. And this was an opportunity for us to finally bring forward our

00:01:16.300 case. We've been under case management for about two years now, working with Associate Chief Justice

00:01:22.900 Jocelyn Gagne. And now this was our, you know, our time to plead our case. So the CCFR challenge is

00:01:31.020 pretty complex, actually. There's about seven parts to it. There's a couple of charter arguments in

00:01:35.820 there, some administrative law. And basically, we're just sort of picking away at the way the liberals did

00:01:41.920 this. For the most part, it revolves around the fact that they used an OIC, an ordering council,

00:01:48.020 which for American listeners is sort of like an executive order. And that's not the appropriate

00:01:53.940 way. It circumvents the democratic process and parliament and the procedures it's supposed to

00:02:00.120 go through. So yeah, we've got them on that. And then some charter stuff. I mean, you know, at the end

00:02:06.360 of the day, I think all Canadians should be interested to know the answer to the question of whether or not

00:02:11.820 the government can step into your life, despite the fact you've done nothing wrong or nothing to

00:02:17.300 warrant it, and take property that you acquired legally and have owned for decades without issue.

00:02:23.880 I need to know that. I want to know if the government can do that. So we're going to find out.

00:02:28.740 So the Alberta government, as I covered a few weeks ago, was actually one of what sounds like

00:02:32.860 the only people who are granted intervener status in this case. Of course, the province of Alberta has

00:02:38.040 been one of the biggest champions for firearms right, arguably the largest champion for firearms

00:02:42.600 rights of all the provinces. What arguments did they make in court? Well, they spoke a lot about

00:02:48.720 jurisdiction. And I just want to say I am grateful, eternally grateful to the government of Alberta and

00:02:54.560 the province of Alberta for stepping in on this. They were granted intervener status. Interestingly enough,

00:03:00.740 there were other applicants who did apply for that status, like Wendy Sucure from the Coalition for Gun

00:03:06.980 Control. However, she was denied intervener status, and Alberta was granted it. So it was really nice to have

00:03:13.220 them there on our side. They argued some jurisdictional stuff about the federal government, you know, imposing

00:03:19.960 their will on Albertans and the province of Alberta. So they had some great arguments, they got along great with

00:03:26.500 our legal team. And I know on the final day, all the legal teams, you know, on our side of the courtroom type

00:03:33.780 thing. All went for lunch afterwards, and they were taking selfies outside. And it was just really nice

00:03:39.900 to see. But Alberta has been an overwhelming champion for gun owners on multiple levels. And I'm grateful

00:03:48.620 to the government as a whole, to Tyler Shandro for standing up, and of course, to the Alberta CFO. She's

00:03:55.200 just great. So you've obviously described, you know, a very happy attitude between your two legal teams

00:03:59.320 there. You and I were actually in the same Twitter space, just last week, and you mentioned that you

00:04:03.860 were feeling pretty positive about the case, I think you ranked it like a 7.5 out of 10% chance

00:04:08.780 that the case would go your way. Are you still feeling that positive about it? And if so, you know,

00:04:13.640 why do you feel so confident that the court is going to rule in the CCFR's favor?

00:04:18.360 Yeah, I still feel that way. So I think the the best thing we can do, of course, you know,

00:04:23.480 there, like I said, there's seven parts to our, to our, our, our core battle. Some of its charter stuff,

00:04:31.040 some of it is administrative law, and some of the more boring stuff that's not as exciting when you're

00:04:35.660 listening, is the stuff that will probably win on. And the reason I feel so hopeful is both the final day

00:04:42.380 of the hearing and the second last day, the government lawyers, the team for the crown, stood up and

00:04:48.780 approached the judge and said, you know, when she does come back with a decision, some months,

00:04:53.380 from now, if she rules against them and rules in our favor, you know, they want an opportunity to

00:04:58.680 speak with her about if there's a domino effect from doing that, because normally, when you get

00:05:04.360 a decision, it'll set case precedence, it's case law, right? So there were, I think they're worried

00:05:10.340 that if and when we win this challenge, if it will have an impact on other gun bans or other things

00:05:18.740 that were done through OIC. And the truth is, it absolutely will. So I see why they're worried.

00:05:24.720 So I was a little shocked to see them kind of say that out loud and put their cards on the table.

00:05:30.040 But yeah, and our, between all the teams, they did an incredible job, sort of tearing down the

00:05:37.140 arguments from the Liberal government's lawyers. And yeah, I feel pretty confident about it.

00:05:43.340 Yeah, that certainly sounds like quite the omission from the federal government.

00:05:47.360 They seem a little bit nervous, definitely, by asking that question. And it's funny that you

00:05:50.840 were very aware of that and caught on to that. I know my viewers are also wondering, when can we

00:05:55.060 expect the ruling on this case? And if it doesn't go your way, if the court doesn't rule in favor of

00:06:00.400 you, where do we go from here?

00:06:02.880 Right. So I mean, you know, a federal court decision of this size and complexity will probably take a number

00:06:09.000 of months. You know, the standard is usually one to six months, but on average, about three months for a

00:06:15.000 decision. They're very long and complicated. So you know, and it'll explain different parts, maybe what

00:06:22.620 we went on, how it does work, though, is the judge starts working through all the evidence, she doesn't 0.58

00:06:28.060 just have the eight days of testimony. She's got probably five, three foot stacks of paper, all the 0.98

00:06:34.480 affidavits, everything that we put forward. The government didn't really have any evidence. But

00:06:39.980 we had, I think it was over 2800 pages that we provided to her. So she's got a lot of reading and

00:06:46.120 work to do. It'll take her a number of months to do that. But how it works is she starts working

00:06:51.560 through that evidence. And when she gets to a point that she says, Oh, okay, this person won,

00:06:57.880 whatever side it is, that's where she stops. There's no real need to go through the rest of it. So

00:07:02.800 it could be as soon as one month, but I would guess about three months. And a lot of people have

00:07:08.880 asked, Well, what if we don't win? I mean, there's no guarantee, and it's impossible to predict an

00:07:13.800 outcome. And the truth is, if we don't win, then expect it to go to the appeals court, and then onto

00:07:20.520 the Supreme Court, we promised gun owners right from the beginning, that we would not leave no stone

00:07:25.860 unturned nor avenue unexplored, and we meant it. So we're going to go all the way.

00:07:29.720 And is it fairly safe to assume that if it does go in your way, and it doesn't go in the way of

00:07:34.200 the federal government, we'll see the same thing, it'll go to the appeal court, and then onto the

00:07:38.060 Supreme Court, I suspect they're not just going to let the issue rest? Or am I mistaken on that?

00:07:42.440 I think they will probably also appeal it, but more for the sake that it would bide them a little more

00:07:47.820 time. At the end of the day, they have no idea how to carry out the second part of their gun ban,

00:07:53.780 which is the confiscation end of it, the buyback program, they call it. They have no idea how to do

00:07:59.420 that. It's been almost three years. These are supposedly guns so dangerous that the average

00:08:04.720 Canadian can't own them, regardless of the fact we've had them for generations. And yet here we 1.00

00:08:10.420 are almost three years later, and they're still sitting in my gun safe. So I think they're struggling

00:08:16.460 to figure out how they're going to go about confiscating them. I've said right from the

00:08:20.380 beginning, it's logistically impossible. So I think for them, if they could just bide a little

00:08:25.180 more time, they could probably reuse this as a new election promise down the road when it's election

00:08:31.780 time and say, look, if you give us a fourth mandate, this time we'll do it right. Instead

00:08:37.420 of through an OIC, we'll table it in proper legislation. And if you really want these guns

00:08:42.800 banned, you better vote for us one more time. So that's what I expect to happen. You know, 0.94

00:08:48.360 we're in it to win it. And I think they're in it just to kick the can down the road a little

00:08:53.120 further. And Tracy, you mentioned this a little bit at the beginning of the show. But obviously,

00:08:57.280 you know, firearms owners are just feeling so frustrated. This is property that they have

00:09:01.720 purchased, they have acquired it legally. Firearms owners already have to jump through a lot of hoops

00:09:06.260 to be able to own these weapons. And it seems like the federal government is very easily able to just,

00:09:12.000 you know, retract their ownership, they're able to retract their property, at least that's what the

00:09:16.580 federal government is seeking to do right now. You're obviously working to stop that. What can firearms

00:09:21.180 owners really do to protect themselves? Is it just a nature of who they vote in for their

00:09:26.000 government? Or is there actually other things they can do as well? Yeah, well, I mean, voting,

00:09:30.720 of course, is ultimately, we need a political solution here. And of course, there's no law that's

00:09:36.020 ever truly evergreen. So I know a lot of people say, you know, if we get a conservative government,

00:09:41.300 we've got to ensure that they put something in place that we don't keep going back and forth like

00:09:45.760 this. And the unfortunate truth is, there is no such thing as evergreen legislation to protect you

00:09:53.140 for all eternity. We're not the United States, we don't have a Second Amendment. Having said that,

00:09:57.800 though, there's a lot that gun owners can do besides just voting. First of all, they've got to

00:10:03.120 vote. Whenever we do get an election, see if you can book the day off, see if you can go out there,

00:10:09.080 drive people to the polls, speak to five people, talk to five family members, email everybody on your

00:10:15.080 list right now. There's a bunch of pre-advocacy we can do like that. And then more importantly,

00:10:21.140 get out there and volunteer, whether it's for your firearms organizations, or for your local

00:10:25.860 conservative candidate, or I know there in Alberta, you guys have an election coming up.

00:10:31.000 And I can't even fathom looking at the polls, how close it is with the NDP and the UCP. And to me,

00:10:37.300 that's absolutely terrifying. It's like people have forgotten. It would be like bringing Kathleen

00:10:42.160 Wynne back to Ontario. I literally left the province when she was here. So, you know, I think

00:10:48.100 people, unfortunately, for the most part, gun owners just want to be left alone. But we're not

00:10:53.380 in that position. So we are forced to be politically active to organize. And of course, you can always

00:10:59.840 volunteer with the CCFR and check out all the work we do online at ccfr.ca. But I think it's going

00:11:07.180 to take a little more than that. I think we're going to have to do more than just vote. We're

00:11:11.620 going to have to get up and volunteer. We're going to have to put our boots right to the ground. 0.65

00:11:17.060 Yeah, I think that's great insight. I really appreciate it. I know my viewers will as well.

00:11:20.600 I think what you mentioned about gun owners really just wanting to be left alone is really a

00:11:24.360 conservative principle. You know, conservatives just want to be left alone. But what you just

00:11:28.360 mentioned about needing to get involved in politics and volunteer is very astute and very relevant,

00:11:32.680 especially over here in Alberta. As you mentioned, we are heading into an election. The rate is going

00:11:36.820 to drop in just a couple of days. So I really appreciate you coming on the show and giving

00:11:40.580 us this update. And I know my viewers will as well. Again, that was Tracy Wilson from the Canadian

00:11:45.140 Coalition for Firearms Rights. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks, Rachel.

00:11:49.600 Okay, everyone, that's all I have for you today. Thank you so much for joining me this week on the

00:11:53.080 Alberta Roundup. As always, please comment on the video below and let me know what you thought of this

00:11:57.400 week's interview. If you have some suggestions of other guests you would like to see on the show,

00:12:01.640 feel free to let me know as well. As well, if you're able to support independent media,

00:12:05.480 please head over to donate.tnc.news. Thanks so much for listening. Have a great weekend and God bless.

Juno News - April 29, 2023

Standing up for law-abiding gun owners

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