Juno News - The Andrew Lawton Show： Negotiating for Nothing

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.900 Coming up, the federal government negotiates an end to the blockades

00:00:16.320 without actually ending the blockades.

00:00:18.540 Is obesity a disease or a choice?

00:00:20.980 And are Aboriginal land acknowledgements just empty words?

00:00:24.180 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:33.160 It's been nearly a week since Justin Trudeau inked that deal supposedly

00:00:38.620 with the Wet'suwet and Hereditary Chiefs that have been in opposition

00:00:42.400 to the Coastal Gas Link Project.

00:00:44.320 And still, the blockades are across the country in full force.

00:00:49.300 Welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:00:51.360 Not going to be counting down the days until this is resolved

00:00:54.740 because according to Justin Trudeau, they were already on the path to resolution.

00:00:59.680 Last weekend, they said they had all reached a deal

00:01:01.900 and the Wet'suwet and Chiefs just had to go and talk,

00:01:04.640 the Hereditary Chiefs rather, had to go and talk with the people they represent

00:01:08.520 and this would ultimately take as long as up to two weeks.

00:01:13.260 Well, a few things that have come to light since then.

00:01:16.080 For starters, if it's about making sure that they have buy-in

00:01:20.060 on the deal from the people they represent,

00:01:22.680 why are we not letting the elected chiefs do this?

00:01:25.840 Because the elected chiefs were elected by people

00:01:28.280 and they're the ones that are already on board with the project.

00:01:32.260 But then there's the most important part here,

00:01:34.780 that this agreement between the federal government

00:01:37.460 and this minority of Hereditary Chiefs

00:01:41.060 doesn't even deal with the pipelines.

00:01:44.960 This is from CBC.

00:01:46.580 All parties have made it clear the agreement touches only land and title rights generally.

00:01:52.720 The natural gas pipeline itself remains in dispute.

00:01:57.240 So John Horgan, who's the premier of BC,

00:01:59.840 has said that the project is underway.

00:02:02.040 It's been approved and ratified.

00:02:03.700 It's going to be completed.

00:02:05.360 Well, tell that to the people that are blockading the worksite,

00:02:08.720 blockading rail lines across the country,

00:02:10.960 blocking highways and border bridges,

00:02:13.360 because they don't seem to accept that,

00:02:15.560 oh, well, it's already been approved.

00:02:16.880 It's going forward.

00:02:18.060 Everything's fine.

00:02:20.040 No, what's actually happening here

00:02:22.020 is the government has managed to be the victim of an elaborate con

00:02:26.980 where it's negotiating something that has nothing to do

00:02:31.040 with the source of the actual grievances right now

00:02:35.260 that are causing these blockades.

00:02:37.740 They weren't even negotiating based on the pipeline.

00:02:40.300 Now, to that, I would say good because it's not their job.

00:02:44.280 It's not their role,

00:02:45.240 given that this project has already been approved.

00:02:48.100 But it means that the government has actually been held hostage on something.

00:02:52.860 And it's not even like they're negotiating for the same thing

00:02:55.920 that the other people are protesting for.

00:02:59.500 Now, I don't know how this was missed in the course of the process

00:03:02.400 or if the government, in fact, just didn't care.

00:03:05.940 You know, there was another point in a Toronto Star article

00:03:08.920 that I had to acknowledge here,

00:03:11.760 where the Carolyn Bennett, who's the Indigenous minister, 1.00

00:03:15.440 has said that they offered a deal that is significant,

00:03:18.300 would recognize the nation's land rights

00:03:20.820 over a vast swath of territory in northwestern BC

00:03:24.400 and potentially prevent a quarrel like what's happened from happening again.

00:03:30.220 This is the best part.

00:03:31.520 In return for that offer, which the Wet'suwet'en have pursued for years, 1.00

00:03:36.800 Ottawa asked for nothing.

00:03:39.160 The minister's office confirmed Monday.

00:03:42.280 For 23 years and long before that,

00:03:44.220 the Wet'suwet'en nation has been wanting to begin to implement their rights in title.

00:03:48.680 That's what Bennett said to the Toronto Star in an interview.

00:03:51.640 So they're giving them something that they didn't ask for.

00:03:55.140 They're giving them something in return for nothing

00:03:57.740 and telling us that they were managing the crisis,

00:04:00.700 that all is well,

00:04:01.880 that nothing like this is going to happen again

00:04:04.240 if the government is there to save us.

00:04:06.520 Well, my goodness, where on earth are we supposed to find

00:04:09.660 an ounce of confidence that the blockades are going to end?

00:04:13.680 And there was a great global news piece that I read

00:04:16.700 interviewing a First Nations author who says

00:04:19.160 that even if the hereditary chiefs get buy-in

00:04:22.820 from the people they consult on this

00:04:24.600 and agree to this and ratify this,

00:04:27.180 it still won't mean an end to the blockades.

00:04:30.860 He says, this is Lee Maracle,

00:04:33.540 it's not really up to what happens

00:04:36.020 with the Wet'suwet'en and the government.

00:04:38.000 It depends on the people making the blockades. 0.57

00:04:41.640 Now that underscores what I think

00:04:43.460 is the biggest problem here,

00:04:44.880 which is that we are not talking about a protest

00:04:47.480 that's been driven by the people

00:04:49.140 supposedly impacted the most by the pipeline project.

00:04:53.020 This is ally theater,

00:04:54.480 people that claim to be allies of the Wet'suwet'en

00:04:57.200 and allies of the hereditary chief,

00:04:59.640 people who are protesting because they want to protest,

00:05:03.040 because they don't like government,

00:05:04.300 they don't like pipelines,

00:05:05.560 they don't like energy,

00:05:06.480 and they're protesting not because they are indigenous,

00:05:10.400 some are,

00:05:11.280 but rather because they want to latch on

00:05:14.000 to that indigenous identity as a cover

00:05:16.440 for what is at this point rampant lawlessness.

00:05:20.140 Again, burning trains and the like.

00:05:22.600 So this is fascinating to me

00:05:24.640 that the government is unaware of how to negotiate

00:05:27.860 because they're giving things away

00:05:29.340 without asking for anything in return

00:05:31.020 and even doing that is apparently taking two weeks.

00:05:34.740 How it takes two weeks to confirm

00:05:38.140 that yes, we will take this thing you're giving us

00:05:40.900 without giving you anything in return,

00:05:42.460 I have no idea.

00:05:43.760 Perhaps the hereditary chiefs are just buying time

00:05:46.380 because now the government is not going to crack skulls.

00:05:50.060 And I know that's a crass expression,

00:05:52.700 but you know what I mean,

00:05:53.420 of getting in there and just breaking it up.

00:05:57.420 And what's happening is that government

00:05:59.320 is not going to do anything for two weeks

00:06:01.380 and government will sit and wait.

00:06:03.100 And then at the end of it, when they come back

00:06:04.680 and say, we have some concerns,

00:06:07.140 we start the process all over again.

00:06:11.220 So this is incredibly shrewd by these hereditary chiefs

00:06:14.800 who were unelected,

00:06:16.160 who have no legitimate leadership authority,

00:06:18.800 but ultimately have managed to hijack

00:06:20.840 a country's energy policy

00:06:22.380 and suspend the rule of law indefinitely.

00:06:25.880 And everyone just sits by and waits for it

00:06:28.820 and accepts it.

00:06:29.660 I mean, power to them.

00:06:31.200 Bravo for doing that.

00:06:33.100 There was an interview on APTN with Stephen Buffalo,

00:06:36.980 who's the president and CEO of the Indian Resource Council.

00:06:40.780 And Stephen Buffalo was talking about the realities here

00:06:43.640 that you're dealing with a lot of non-Indigenous protesters,

00:06:48.140 first off.

00:06:49.080 But moreover, what he pointed out,

00:06:51.100 and I think this is an important point,

00:06:52.860 is that a lot of these people are paid to be there.

00:06:57.440 And he said this is something he's heard and experienced himself,

00:07:00.360 people being paid to be there.

00:07:02.680 And he says in one particular part here,

00:07:05.180 and I'll play the clip,

00:07:06.320 environmental groups have come on reserves

00:07:08.120 and offered $300 a person,

00:07:10.360 or, quote, $500 if they're wearing feathers, unquote,

00:07:14.360 because they want it to look like this is an Indigenous protest

00:07:17.780 and not like just a bunch of white liberal so-called allies

00:07:22.320 that are trying to pretend they're these Indigenous heroes,

00:07:25.220 when in actuality they're just looking for an excuse to protest.

00:07:28.600 As we shoot this episode,

00:07:31.160 we see many of those youth and others that are out

00:07:34.420 taking part in demonstrations, blockades,

00:07:37.920 actions in support of the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs 1.00

00:07:41.440 who are opposed to coastal gas link.

00:07:44.140 What are your thoughts on what you're seeing?

00:07:46.200 Well, again, I think there's a lot of misrepresentation.

00:07:50.560 Of course, we want to make sure the environment is paramount.

00:07:54.400 But in the same sense, though,

00:07:56.300 who's really saying this message?

00:07:58.820 And when you see 20 elected chiefs give the authorization

00:08:03.820 and that they want to work,

00:08:05.900 they want to provide an economic opportunity

00:08:08.440 for not only their people and the future of their people,

00:08:12.260 I think that needs to be warranted, you know,

00:08:15.720 and I think we have to investigate that thoroughly.

00:08:20.860 But the hard part, again,

00:08:22.860 is who's really pulling the string here.

00:08:26.500 In my view, based on some of the research that I've seen,

00:08:30.760 you know, there is a will that there is to landlock Canada's resources.

00:08:35.880 When I spoke with someone from the National Coalition of Chiefs last week,

00:08:40.940 this is a group of First Nation and Métis leaders

00:08:43.680 who are in support of resource development,

00:08:46.080 he alleged that people come on reserve

00:08:48.720 and offer hundreds of dollars to people to come out to these protests.

00:08:54.180 Is that something that you've ever heard of?

00:08:56.960 Yes, actually I have.

00:08:58.060 You know, a friend of mine that used to run the Treaty 7 Management Corporation,

00:09:04.140 when Northern Gateway was approved,

00:09:07.900 this environmental group came to his office

00:09:09.900 and offered $300 per head of First Nation

00:09:13.360 and $500 if they're wearing feathers.

00:09:16.580 So back then, he didn't really take too much into consideration

00:09:21.720 the fact that the impact it's going to have,

00:09:23.920 but now it has a drastic impact, as you can see now.

00:09:28.000 And one interesting story is that Greenpeace was hiring a campaigner to,

00:09:34.080 and they changed this,

00:09:35.540 they changed the wording when people started talking about it online,

00:09:38.960 $70,000 a year to, quote,

00:09:41.560 scandalize, unquote, the fossil fuel industry.

00:09:45.460 The job description says Greenpeace Canada is seeking a campaign head

00:09:49.940 to provide leadership in the development and implementation of our campaigns

00:09:54.400 to fight against climate change

00:09:56.380 and scandalize the fossil fuel industry in Canada.

00:10:00.460 Now, the best part about it, I think,

00:10:02.100 is that it requires people to be willing to travel globally

00:10:05.620 and within Canada as well.

00:10:08.220 So nothing scandalizes the fossil fuel industry

00:10:10.520 like getting on airplanes and flying across the country on planes

00:10:14.600 that are using fossil fuels like airplanes do.

00:10:17.680 So unless they're, you know, hitchhiking on horse and buggy,

00:10:21.840 which would be very difficult

00:10:23.200 because you see the thing three kilometers away

00:10:25.240 and you have to hold your thumb out for the whole time it takes to travel that,

00:10:28.980 I don't know what Greenpeace is doing,

00:10:30.680 but they take out the word scandalize

00:10:33.000 because they realize, hmm, maybe it doesn't look too good on us

00:10:37.200 if we're literally talking about terrorizing,

00:10:41.340 which is, I think, a fair synonym for that, terrorizing an industry.

00:10:44.720 Whatever happened to stakeholder meetings, lobbying?

00:10:48.380 You know, I did an interview a few weeks back with Michael Binion,

00:10:51.720 who's from the Modern Miracle Network

00:10:53.840 and obviously himself an executive of an oil and gas company.

00:10:58.280 And one of the things that I found interesting in talking to him

00:11:01.240 is that the oil and gas sector has done far more on its own

00:11:06.260 in relation to what government has forced the industry to do

00:11:10.540 because they're aware that there is an environmentalist push

00:11:14.220 that exists across the country.

00:11:16.120 So they're trying to preempt a lot of this.

00:11:17.960 They've invested in green tech.

00:11:19.680 They've invested in clean tech.

00:11:21.500 And by the way, a lot of these oil and gas companies,

00:11:24.060 which collectively, I think, employ about 12,000 aboriginals across the country,

00:11:30.200 are investing in reserves and First Nations communities

00:11:34.080 because these communities, which are trying to see how they can leverage

00:11:39.460 their natural resource assets, are saying,

00:11:42.340 all right, come, teach us, show us what to do, help us out here.

00:11:46.240 And this is what Stephen Buffalo talks about in that APTN interview.

00:11:50.120 And I can't play the whole thing.

00:11:51.220 It's about 20 minutes.

00:11:52.440 But I would encourage you to go and take a look

00:11:54.600 because there's a lot of interesting background there

00:11:57.600 and also a lot of things that will leave you wondering

00:12:00.120 how on earth is anyone protesting these developments

00:12:04.460 and protesting these projects.

00:12:06.920 So this is where we are now.

00:12:08.880 You've got a deal that doesn't actually address the problem.

00:12:13.560 You've got a deal that is taking weeks before it comes back

00:12:17.900 without any sort of real conclusion.

00:12:20.300 You've got a government that for 48 hours

00:12:23.740 was interested in taking down blockades

00:12:25.760 and then decided they were going back to just discussing.

00:12:28.560 But again, they aren't even discussing.

00:12:30.700 And you've got actual indigenous Canadians 1.00

00:12:33.740 who are suffering here because they can't benefit

00:12:36.940 from the employment, the jobs, the economic development,

00:12:39.940 the royalties, and all of these things

00:12:41.980 that come along with these projects.

00:12:44.180 So I would say First Nations are being harmed

00:12:46.940 just as much, if not more,

00:12:49.680 than other Canadians and other stakeholders here

00:12:52.680 by these blockades being done

00:12:55.300 under the supposed guise of allegiance

00:12:58.800 with the hereditary chiefs.

00:13:01.360 So why unelected people

00:13:03.640 who disagree with the elected people

00:13:06.080 have to go and consult with those they represent

00:13:08.540 escapes me.

00:13:09.620 Because the fact that the chiefs supporting this project

00:13:12.160 were elected says,

00:13:13.520 hmm, I think there's probably some buy-in

00:13:15.660 from these communities.

00:13:17.540 And no one can...

00:13:18.520 And again, there was this poll that came out

00:13:20.100 a week or a week and a half ago

00:13:21.720 where a lot of Canadians were saying Canada is broken.

00:13:25.880 And the left got very outraged about that.

00:13:28.860 And they started talking about how Canada is not broken

00:13:31.000 and Canada is great.

00:13:32.300 And one of the common threads I saw

00:13:34.480 is that all of the people insisting

00:13:36.700 that everything is fine in Canada

00:13:38.540 and the country is not broken

00:13:40.060 were people that have not had to ever wonder

00:13:45.280 about their future.

00:13:47.100 They were people in this small unfortunate group

00:13:49.220 that is always assured of where it's going.

00:13:52.920 And for people that the Canadian dream,

00:13:55.400 if we can call it that, has left behind,

00:13:57.360 it's easy to understand

00:13:58.720 how they'd think the country is broken.

00:14:01.720 And, you know, I would say

00:14:03.220 that it's not controversial to acknowledge

00:14:05.340 that Canada's relations with its First Nations

00:14:08.480 are very much broken.

00:14:09.880 And I tweeted something a couple of days ago

00:14:11.880 that we should completely tear up the Indian Act

00:14:14.960 and start from scratch

00:14:16.780 and literally rebuild a partnership

00:14:18.860 with First Nations,

00:14:20.340 with Indigenous Canadians moving forward.

00:14:22.660 And I said that given there's a conservative leadership race

00:14:25.600 going on right now,

00:14:26.780 I would love to see conservative leadership candidates

00:14:29.680 actually take the lead on this

00:14:31.500 and make this a conservative issue.

00:14:33.860 And there's no reason it can't be.

00:14:35.660 There's no reason this can't be a conservative issue.

00:14:38.220 And I had a lot of people respond to say,

00:14:40.800 well, Maxime Bernier proposed that in his platform.

00:14:44.580 And I didn't know that.

00:14:45.580 But the point is,

00:14:46.460 he's not in official opposition right now.

00:14:48.780 The Conservative Party of Canada is.

00:14:51.120 And whether I like or dislike the PPC platform,

00:14:55.080 and I think there's a lot of good stuff in there,

00:14:57.140 they didn't get the seats that they needed

00:14:59.800 in the last election to make an impact right now.

00:15:02.340 I know they can do things in the future

00:15:04.040 and I am going to continue to follow them.

00:15:06.400 I'll be interviewing Maxime Bernier

00:15:08.240 at some point in the coming weeks, I'm sure.

00:15:10.660 But the point is that you have to deal with the players

00:15:13.200 that are on the field right now.

00:15:14.700 And I would love to see the Conservatives champion

00:15:17.340 a big reform on this because the Liberals aren't.

00:15:21.020 I mean, the Liberals have absolutely failed on this.

00:15:24.160 And the Liberals have beyond that,

00:15:26.040 I think proven themselves to be no better

00:15:28.320 than those ally theatrics people

00:15:31.660 in that they say we're going to be

00:15:33.440 the party of reconciliation

00:15:34.660 and have done more, I think,

00:15:36.800 to let down Indigenous Canadians

00:15:38.820 than previous governments have of different parties,

00:15:42.160 Liberal or Conservative.

00:15:44.260 So the reason I want to see this gone

00:15:47.920 is that the Indian Act gets attacked

00:15:50.460 from the left and the right,

00:15:51.880 from Indigenous and non-Indigenous Canadians.

00:15:54.180 No one seems happy with it.

00:15:56.180 The only defences that I've seen,

00:15:58.880 Pam Palmater, for example,

00:16:00.880 in McLean's had said you shouldn't assume

00:16:03.900 that getting rid of the Indian Act 0.71

00:16:05.320 will solve the problem.

00:16:06.620 But she says later on in that same McLean's column

00:16:09.560 that the Indian Act is a racist law.

00:16:12.000 There were people saying that it would be offensive

00:16:14.080 to make Jody Wilson-Raybould,

00:16:16.100 when she was in Cabinet,

00:16:17.520 the Indigenous Affairs Minister,

00:16:20.100 because then she would have to preside

00:16:21.960 over a racist act

00:16:23.140 that she's been combating in her life for years.

00:16:26.800 So Indigenous Canadians don't like it. 1.00

00:16:29.180 I would say that there's a lot of confusion

00:16:31.400 in non-Indigenous Canadians

00:16:33.260 about what this act actually does

00:16:36.180 and what it means.

00:16:37.820 And again, I just take from this

00:16:39.280 that no one can say the status quo is working.

00:16:42.280 No one can say that what we have now

00:16:44.180 is actually effective or viable in the long term.

00:16:48.820 So building something new from scratch

00:16:51.660 would take two terms at least.

00:16:55.280 It would be a multi,

00:16:56.640 I mean, it would be a generational project.

00:16:58.480 But it would be so important

00:17:00.340 and you'd almost have to say,

00:17:01.820 listen, whatever we settle on, this is it.

00:17:04.540 We're not going back to the drawing board.

00:17:06.520 We're not going to have these blockades.

00:17:09.500 This is the deal.

00:17:10.600 This is the agreement.

00:17:11.740 We're going to take the time.

00:17:12.760 It's going to be tough,

00:17:13.540 but we're going to do it right.

00:17:16.080 And while that sounds great in theory,

00:17:18.700 and I realize that's my idea

00:17:20.120 at this particular point,

00:17:21.840 the problem is that what we're seeing now,

00:17:24.360 the divide between the elected chiefs

00:17:26.260 and the hereditary chiefs of one particular region

00:17:30.060 means that you're not likely to have a national buy-in

00:17:34.660 of one particular proposal

00:17:36.220 from all First Nations across the country.

00:17:39.080 They don't speak with one voice.

00:17:41.680 They're different communities.

00:17:43.040 I mean, we think of Aboriginal, non-Aboriginal,

00:17:45.500 but within the Aboriginal category,

00:17:47.900 there are Mohawk, Cree, Ojibwe.

00:17:50.460 I mean, all of these.

00:17:51.200 And even within those, you have variances apparently

00:17:54.100 where some one particular community,

00:17:56.620 well, not apparently.

00:17:57.800 I mean, just look at what we're seeing now

00:17:59.140 where the elected chief in one community

00:18:01.580 versus the hereditary chief,

00:18:03.700 and they can't be in agreement on energy independence

00:18:07.000 and fulfilling resource demands.

00:18:12.060 So this is going to get worse before it gets better.

00:18:16.500 And the problem now is that the protesters

00:18:19.560 have proven the concept.

00:18:21.160 They've proven that all you have to do

00:18:23.600 is set up camp on rail blockades

00:18:25.580 and the government will be like putty in your hands.

00:18:28.560 And this is Justin Trudeau's legacy,

00:18:30.860 proving that this is apparently an effective way

00:18:33.700 to get things done.

00:18:35.040 And that is something that has to stop

00:18:37.200 because every project moving forward

00:18:39.660 will be subjected to the same thing

00:18:41.640 because of how they have avoided handling it right now.

00:18:45.500 We've got to take a break here.

00:18:46.780 When we come back,

00:18:47.380 more of The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:18:49.560 You're tuned in to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:18:58.120 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:19:00.660 Here's a loaded question for you.

00:19:02.740 Is obesity a choice or is it a disease?

00:19:05.640 Or can it be both?

00:19:07.180 Now, if you're watching the video form of this,

00:19:09.180 you'll know I'm not exactly a skinny mini myself,

00:19:11.740 but nevertheless, it's an interesting topic

00:19:14.020 and one that was explored in a Montreal Gazette op-ed

00:19:16.980 that was also republished in the National Post

00:19:19.680 by professors Sylvia Santosa and David Secco.

00:19:23.900 And they talk about this idea of whether calling obesity,

00:19:29.120 despite its lifestyle factors,

00:19:31.320 the disease is more accurate

00:19:33.480 when you look at the health implications of obesity

00:19:36.420 and things like shorter lifespan,

00:19:39.180 and openness to other conditions and so on and so forth.

00:19:43.040 But that also comes with another bit of baggage,

00:19:46.260 which is that calling it a disease

00:19:48.220 may, in some people's eyes,

00:19:50.460 take away that idea that you can control it,

00:19:54.960 that it's something that you choose,

00:19:56.720 or you choose the factors that lead to it anyway.

00:20:00.300 I want to talk about this in a little bit more detail

00:20:02.560 with Professor Sylvia Santosa,

00:20:04.760 an Associate Professor in the Department of Health,

00:20:07.360 Kinesiology and Applied Physiology

00:20:09.520 at Concordia University,

00:20:11.420 and one of the authors of this paper.

00:20:13.340 Professor, good to talk to you.

00:20:14.540 Thanks for joining me today.

00:20:16.180 Thank you so much for having me.

00:20:18.260 So let's talk about this idea

00:20:20.340 of what I found to be fascinating,

00:20:22.920 the parallels between obesity and aging,

00:20:25.220 which is a juxtaposition I have not seen before.

00:20:29.680 Yeah, so what do you want to know?

00:20:32.320 Well, I guess, how is it viewed as a disease

00:20:35.380 in that context, in your view?

00:20:37.960 Well, there's a lot of things that obesity and aging,

00:20:43.680 that are similar in obesity and aging.

00:20:46.060 For example, if you think about all of the diseases

00:20:49.720 and conditions that are associated with obesity,

00:20:52.600 so when you think about that,

00:20:53.780 you think of perhaps some of the common ones

00:20:56.600 like cardiovascular disease,

00:20:59.740 high cholesterol levels, mobility issues,

00:21:04.980 you think of maybe type 2 diabetes and things.

00:21:08.780 And if you think about what those conditions are

00:21:13.000 and when those conditions usually occur,

00:21:15.240 you'll find that they're all also related with aging, right?

00:21:20.160 So the two of them are very similar.

00:21:22.320 So that's how I first got this thing

00:21:27.240 that perhaps obesity and aging are similar.

00:21:29.980 And then if you look further into it,

00:21:33.540 if you see, if you consider kids with obesity,

00:21:36.000 then you'll find that these kids often do develop

00:21:40.820 or are at higher risk of things like hypertension

00:21:43.460 and cardiovascular disease and diabetes

00:21:46.140 and there were type 2 diabetes.

00:21:48.440 And these type of conditions were usually only seen

00:21:51.680 in adults, right?

00:21:54.800 Like they're only usually seen in adults historically,

00:21:57.660 but then you have children with obesity

00:21:59.980 that are starting to be at risk

00:22:02.660 or actually taking anti-hypertensive medications

00:22:05.860 and things like this.

00:22:07.180 So I felt there's something obviously going on

00:22:10.080 between what's happening in our tissues

00:22:13.880 and obesity and how it's affecting it.

00:22:17.200 And then when you dig down to more of the molecular

00:22:20.720 or the tissue or the cellular level,

00:22:23.060 and even at the tissue level,

00:22:24.560 you do see that there are some differences

00:22:28.920 or similarities between what's occurring in obesity

00:22:31.700 and what's occurring in aging.

00:22:33.020 Now, the mechanisms are not identical,

00:22:35.960 but a lot of them are, some of them are,

00:22:39.000 and then some of them are very similar.

00:22:40.740 So for example, you have diabetes in obesity,

00:22:45.020 but as we age, we also have greater free radical formation.

00:22:48.480 So that's more oxidative stress again.

00:22:50.820 You have a weakened immune system as we get older.

00:22:54.300 You know, older individuals are more susceptible to illness.

00:22:57.560 Same thing in obesity.

00:22:59.520 With obesity, our immune systems get a little bit weaker

00:23:03.320 and we can also be more susceptible to illness.

00:23:10.100 Now, one of the big distinctions

00:23:11.740 that I think a lot of people would draw

00:23:13.380 is that no matter how healthy you are,

00:23:15.960 no matter how fit you are, everyone's going to age.

00:23:19.100 Whereas obesity, in most cases, I'd say,

00:23:21.920 or certainly many cases,

00:23:23.140 you've got a lot more control over it.

00:23:25.820 And does that disparity factor into your research?

00:23:29.580 Well, you know, that's a good question

00:23:31.520 because the whole idea that,

00:23:33.980 oh, obesity, you've got a lot more control over it.

00:23:36.720 Sure, like aging is inevitable,

00:23:40.380 but I think we also have to consider the fact

00:23:42.320 that obesity is very hard to treat

00:23:44.400 and it's not often a choice for a lot of individuals.

00:23:48.060 You know, it's like,

00:23:49.040 it sort of occurs as a consequence

00:23:52.360 of our built environment.

00:23:54.760 Perhaps like, you know,

00:23:56.020 maybe there's no safe places to play.

00:23:57.760 Maybe it's hard to get food.

00:23:59.100 Maybe our busy lives make it difficult

00:24:00.580 for us to cook meals at home,

00:24:02.880 things like this.

00:24:03.580 You know, so there's a lot of factors

00:24:05.000 that factor into someone's weight

00:24:10.660 that I think are not necessarily a choice.

00:24:16.200 One interesting aspect of this that I found

00:24:18.720 is that you've said the obesity factor

00:24:22.040 can accelerate aging.

00:24:23.940 And I'm wondering if that is something

00:24:27.020 that really for a lot of people

00:24:28.880 is exacerbating problems

00:24:30.520 much further down the line

00:24:32.300 that could have been dealt with

00:24:33.460 earlier if they were aware of this,

00:24:35.600 if they were getting treated and so on.

00:24:37.980 Yes, well, you know,

00:24:39.260 we've looked at,

00:24:40.380 some of our research is really looking

00:24:41.960 at how some of this may be reversible.

00:24:45.680 So you end up treating obesity

00:24:49.420 if you lose a lot of weight,

00:24:51.160 whether you can reverse some of these changes

00:24:53.160 that are occurring in your body.

00:24:55.240 And for some things,

00:24:57.140 it appears that we can.

00:24:59.240 And for other things,

00:25:00.120 it appears we can't.

00:25:01.100 Like, for example,

00:25:01.740 changes in our DNA

00:25:02.880 are more difficult to reverse

00:25:04.420 than changes in inflammation.

00:25:07.980 As well,

00:25:09.700 those who've had,

00:25:11.320 we have studies that look at individuals

00:25:13.180 who've had obesity since childhood

00:25:15.080 and obesity since adulthood.

00:25:16.860 Those results are going to be coming out soon.

00:25:18.840 So these are individuals who are adults

00:25:21.520 who have obesity

00:25:23.140 and they were looking at them from,

00:25:26.760 they've had either obesity since childhood

00:25:28.600 or obesity since adulthood.

00:25:30.100 And we want to know

00:25:31.040 what the differences are

00:25:32.380 in these different types of obesity.

00:25:34.600 And the idea being that there are,

00:25:36.300 these are two different types of obesity

00:25:37.700 and perhaps they need to be treated differently.

00:25:40.040 Certainly,

00:25:40.480 we know that those individuals

00:25:42.360 who've had obesity since childhood

00:25:43.980 are at greater risk for,

00:25:45.760 much greater risk

00:25:46.620 for these various comorbidities

00:25:48.740 or diseases and conditions

00:25:50.060 associated with obesity.

00:25:51.800 So that's very similar to,

00:25:54.040 perhaps not as exaggerated,

00:25:55.880 but type 1, type 2 diabetes,

00:25:57.620 is it not?

00:25:58.100 That they,

00:25:58.640 that you could be looking at

00:25:59.740 childhood obesity

00:26:00.620 versus adult obesity

00:26:01.800 as two separate conditions?

00:26:03.960 Well, that's my idea.

00:26:05.380 That's the theory.

00:26:06.480 But, you know,

00:26:07.220 we need a little bit more research

00:26:08.880 in order to delineate

00:26:11.260 or to figure out

00:26:12.320 what those differences actually are.

00:26:14.960 For example,

00:26:15.660 we already know

00:26:16.600 that individuals

00:26:18.480 who've had obesity

00:26:19.440 since adulthood

00:26:20.100 have fat cells

00:26:22.340 versus those

00:26:24.340 who've had obesity

00:26:25.340 since childhood,

00:26:26.000 they seem to have

00:26:26.640 smaller and more numerous fat cells.

00:26:29.380 And fat cell size

00:26:30.480 is actually significant

00:26:32.860 because that contributes

00:26:34.500 to our susceptibility

00:26:36.160 for metabolic disease.

00:26:37.680 So when you talk about

00:26:39.520 that idea of viewing obesity

00:26:41.600 as a disease,

00:26:42.620 is that purely

00:26:43.320 a semantics distinction

00:26:44.600 or does that actually change

00:26:46.340 a lot of the knowledge

00:26:47.880 and treatment

00:26:48.860 and approach to obesity

00:26:50.380 if you view it as a disease?

00:26:52.580 Yeah, well, you know,

00:26:53.800 I really, there's,

00:26:55.380 I mean, if you think about

00:26:56.380 what exactly is a disease, right?

00:26:58.500 Like, what is a disease?

00:26:59.840 If someone has

00:27:00.540 cardiovascular disease,

00:27:01.640 are you going to argue

00:27:02.400 whether or not that's a disease?

00:27:04.040 If someone has type 2 diabetes,

00:27:06.140 are you going to argue

00:27:06.980 whether or not

00:27:08.120 that's a disease?

00:27:09.220 Those are diseases

00:27:10.000 that are associated

00:27:10.880 with lifestyle

00:27:11.600 similar to obesity.

00:27:13.060 So obesity is also

00:27:14.060 associated with lifestyle.

00:27:16.620 People often look at it

00:27:17.980 as more of an adaptation

00:27:21.940 to excess caloric intake.

00:27:23.820 And, you know,

00:27:24.620 there's a stigma

00:27:25.120 that's like,

00:27:25.640 oh, people are doing it

00:27:26.520 to themselves.

00:27:27.140 It's not,

00:27:27.680 people aren't necessarily

00:27:28.600 doing it to themselves.

00:27:29.980 It's just like people

00:27:30.720 are not necessarily

00:27:31.320 giving themselves

00:27:32.620 cardiovascular disease

00:27:34.220 or giving themselves

00:27:35.060 diabetes, right?

00:27:36.220 Like, I think that people,

00:27:38.300 the way people view

00:27:39.300 obesity is that

00:27:40.500 there's a much more

00:27:42.580 accountability

00:27:43.520 to the individual

00:27:44.820 than to,

00:27:46.040 than

00:27:46.280 disease

00:27:48.180 and diabetes

00:27:51.060 both have lifestyle

00:27:52.280 components.

00:27:54.560 Right?

00:27:55.400 Cancer has a lifestyle

00:27:56.240 component.

00:27:56.760 So, um, I, I mean,

00:28:00.180 I just think that

00:28:01.440 we really,

00:28:02.500 and both,

00:28:03.660 all, all these type

00:28:05.060 of diseases

00:28:06.100 are all difficult

00:28:07.400 to treat

00:28:07.860 and they all need

00:28:08.560 medical intervention

00:28:09.460 and things like that.

00:28:10.900 So I think that

00:28:12.240 there is a strong argument

00:28:13.900 to view obesity

00:28:15.260 as a disease

00:28:16.300 rather than as a condition.

00:28:18.300 So it does,

00:28:19.360 in many cases,

00:28:20.120 come back to that

00:28:20.960 stigma factor

00:28:21.980 and, and you could see

00:28:23.480 some unintended

00:28:24.160 consequences of that

00:28:25.340 if there was more

00:28:26.040 of an environment

00:28:26.940 to view it as a disease,

00:28:28.060 people might be more

00:28:28.940 open to seeking treatment

00:28:30.660 than if it's just,

00:28:31.740 uh, you know,

00:28:32.440 lifestyle only

00:28:33.240 or viewed as lifestyle only,

00:28:34.560 not to mention the way

00:28:35.420 that some healthcare

00:28:36.380 practitioners might view it.

00:28:38.300 Exactly.

00:28:38.920 Like, in terms of

00:28:39.760 the approaches

00:28:40.340 in the healthcare system,

00:28:41.820 in terms of

00:28:42.840 what's covered,

00:28:44.280 in terms of

00:28:45.680 by, by healthcare,

00:28:47.460 um, in terms of

00:28:49.100 the types of treatments

00:28:50.340 that are available,

00:28:51.660 in terms of the types

00:28:52.760 of research

00:28:53.460 that's being done on it,

00:28:54.860 you know,

00:28:55.480 I think there's a lot

00:28:56.200 of benefits

00:28:56.740 in terms of

00:28:57.600 viewing it as a disease

00:28:58.820 because I think

00:28:59.440 in viewing it as a disease

00:29:00.640 we can maybe

00:29:01.600 look at it as,

00:29:02.960 okay, well,

00:29:03.380 maybe we need to adjust

00:29:04.560 how we're approaching

00:29:05.520 individuals with obesity

00:29:06.960 to more effectively

00:29:08.220 provide them

00:29:09.020 with treatment

00:29:09.560 or prevention

00:29:10.720 of other

00:29:12.160 comorbidities

00:29:13.160 and diseases.

00:29:14.400 Concordia University

00:29:15.280 Health Professor

00:29:16.000 Sylvia Sentosa 0.91

00:29:16.980 joining me on the line.

00:29:17.920 Professor,

00:29:18.320 thanks very much

00:29:18.840 for your time.

00:29:19.300 Really appreciate it.

00:29:20.720 Thank you very much

00:29:21.500 for having me.

00:29:22.840 Very interesting stuff.

00:29:23.820 My thanks again

00:29:24.560 to the professor

00:29:25.440 for her time.

00:29:26.440 We've got to take

00:29:27.140 another break

00:29:28.260 when we come back.

00:29:29.080 More of The Andrew Lawton

00:29:30.120 Show here on True North.

00:29:31.360 Stay tuned.

00:29:33.380 You're tuned in

00:29:34.520 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:29:38.960 Welcome back.

00:29:40.100 Speaking of health stories,

00:29:41.880 this one has to be

00:29:43.220 one of my more amusing

00:29:45.320 examples of Trump derangement

00:29:47.380 converging with

00:29:48.380 health policy research here.

00:29:49.780 Trump's 2016 win

00:29:52.260 may have resulted

00:29:53.520 in fewer boys

00:29:54.600 born in Ontario,

00:29:56.340 according to a study

00:29:57.760 published in BMJ Journal.

00:29:59.940 They found that

00:30:01.060 there was a short-term

00:30:02.080 decline in the number

00:30:03.200 of boys born in Ontario

00:30:04.740 three to five months

00:30:05.740 after the U.S. election

00:30:07.300 in November 2016.

00:30:08.900 They say the shift

00:30:09.860 in the sex ratio

00:30:11.000 of newborn babies

00:30:11.940 was apparent

00:30:12.520 in only politically

00:30:14.240 liberal-leaning areas

00:30:16.120 and not in conservative parts.

00:30:17.900 And what the researcher said,

00:30:20.040 an endocrinologist

00:30:20.820 at Mount Sinai Hospital,

00:30:22.740 the idea that

00:30:23.440 liberal-leaning parts

00:30:24.420 of the province

00:30:24.960 might have perceived

00:30:26.000 that event,

00:30:26.840 the outcome as an election,

00:30:28.740 as an adverse

00:30:29.700 societal stressor,

00:30:31.200 whereas conservative-leaning

00:30:32.340 parts of the province

00:30:33.260 might not have seen it

00:30:34.340 that way.

00:30:35.200 So what they have here

00:30:37.160 is this idea

00:30:37.800 that if you're stressed,

00:30:39.080 you are less likely,

00:30:40.500 apparently,

00:30:41.120 to have a boy.

00:30:43.800 And if everything's fine,

00:30:45.660 I guess you'll have boys.

00:30:46.700 So boys only come 1.00

00:30:47.740 when the world is fine

00:30:48.740 and the world is as it should.

00:30:50.640 But they're arguing

00:30:51.840 that to have fewer boys

00:30:54.700 after the election

00:30:55.620 in liberal areas

00:30:56.440 means that Trump

00:30:57.320 is responsible for it,

00:30:58.500 which means, though,

00:31:00.380 that President Donald Trump

00:31:01.900 may be the greatest

00:31:04.020 contributing factor

00:31:05.020 to less toxic masculinity

00:31:06.920 because there are fewer males.

00:31:09.040 So in many respects,

00:31:10.120 maybe some of the people

00:31:10.900 on the left

00:31:11.320 should be thanking him

00:31:12.540 for this

00:31:13.040 if we accept

00:31:14.060 all of these things

00:31:14.880 at face value.

00:31:15.740 Apparently,

00:31:17.220 the researcher,

00:31:18.240 Dr. Retina Curran,

00:31:19.480 said he and his team

00:31:20.120 had to wait

00:31:20.560 three to five months

00:31:21.420 after the election

00:31:22.200 for the babies to be born

00:31:23.780 to see if there was

00:31:24.460 an impact on the sex ratio.

00:31:26.280 So it sounds like

00:31:27.600 he was trying

00:31:28.660 to find a disparity

00:31:30.800 and you always have

00:31:31.800 to be very cautious

00:31:32.680 when someone is looking

00:31:34.080 for a very specific outcome.

00:31:36.020 Not that there's a problem

00:31:36.940 with having a thesis,

00:31:38.220 but it sounds like

00:31:39.100 he was ready

00:31:39.940 and willing

00:31:40.580 right after the election.

00:31:41.760 Okay,

00:31:42.120 let's see what this does

00:31:43.340 to the boys that are born

00:31:44.220 and then,

00:31:44.780 what do you know,

00:31:45.300 found that fewer boys

00:31:46.340 after the election.

00:31:47.680 That's a fun one.

00:31:49.380 Also,

00:31:49.880 in health news,

00:31:50.960 we have in Australia,

00:31:53.280 major panic.

00:31:54.360 Coronavirus is causing everyone

00:31:55.880 to clear everything

00:31:56.760 off of the shelves.

00:31:57.700 You can't find toilet paper

00:31:59.380 in Australia,

00:32:00.600 apparently.

00:32:01.100 So one newspaper,

00:32:02.800 NT News,

00:32:04.280 decided to print

00:32:05.780 a few extra pages

00:32:07.160 that you can use

00:32:08.780 as toilet paper.

00:32:09.920 So if you can't find

00:32:11.200 your Charmin or whatever

00:32:12.880 is on the shelves

00:32:13.700 of Australia,

00:32:14.980 Cottonelle,

00:32:15.700 I buy this stuff

00:32:16.420 all the time.

00:32:16.820 I have no idea

00:32:17.220 what the brand names are.

00:32:18.080 Cottonelle and Charmin,

00:32:18.960 I think.

00:32:19.520 The bear dancing,

00:32:20.560 I think,

00:32:20.820 is Charmin.

00:32:21.520 Maybe it's an Australian bear.

00:32:22.800 Who knows?

00:32:23.660 You can just clip

00:32:25.140 a few pages

00:32:25.960 of your newspaper

00:32:27.060 and no idea

00:32:28.820 how it's going to feel.

00:32:29.700 Probably not as soft

00:32:30.880 and smooth as the kittens

00:32:31.860 on the Royale

00:32:33.160 or the Cottonelle.

00:32:34.200 Okay,

00:32:34.420 all these brands

00:32:35.040 are flooding to me now.

00:32:36.080 Not as soft

00:32:36.660 as the kittens,

00:32:37.180 but desperate times

00:32:38.800 call for desperate measures

00:32:40.120 when it comes

00:32:40.700 to the coronavirus panic.

00:32:42.540 Which brings us

00:32:43.500 to the most desperate

00:32:44.540 and sad coronavirus story

00:32:46.820 of them all.

00:32:48.000 Courtesy of Vice, 0.62

00:32:49.900 coronavirus porn

00:32:51.120 is going viral

00:32:52.680 on Pornhub.

00:32:53.940 Amidst a global health crisis,

00:32:55.580 the article said,

00:32:56.640 porn finds a way.

00:32:58.640 And this is evidently

00:33:01.060 the saddest point

00:33:02.740 of society.

00:33:03.700 I would say

00:33:04.200 bring on the meteor

00:33:05.160 and I'd say

00:33:06.060 bring on the coronavirus.

00:33:07.180 if this is what

00:33:07.820 we're going to do

00:33:08.360 with our life

00:33:09.040 and this is what

00:33:09.500 we're going to do

00:33:10.120 with our freedom

00:33:11.460 and free speech

00:33:12.260 moving forward.

00:33:13.420 But apparently

00:33:13.940 there is one

00:33:14.540 particular video

00:33:15.480 where a CDC agent

00:33:17.720 investigates

00:33:18.500 a deserted Wuhan

00:33:19.420 and then finds someone

00:33:21.420 and in true,

00:33:23.140 you know,

00:33:23.620 the cable man

00:33:24.240 is here fashion,

00:33:25.420 hijinks of a sexual 0.98

00:33:27.200 variety ensue.

00:33:28.360 I'm not going to play

00:33:29.040 any video

00:33:29.580 of that particular chapter,

00:33:31.560 but this is what

00:33:32.420 you have to be aware of

00:33:33.480 in the post-coronavirus age

00:33:35.360 is that porn

00:33:36.020 will find a way

00:33:36.840 and we are all

00:33:38.420 just so in need

00:33:40.180 of being ashamed

00:33:40.860 of ourselves,

00:33:41.380 I would think,

00:33:41.940 if we've contributed

00:33:42.880 to that in some way.

00:33:45.140 While we're on

00:33:45.860 with this rapid fire round,

00:33:47.360 here's a great video.

00:33:48.780 Angela Merkel's

00:33:49.620 interior minister

00:33:50.500 refused to shake her hand

00:33:52.240 because of coronavirus.

00:33:53.680 Have a look.

00:33:54.120 Yeah, there you have it.

00:34:08.420 She doesn't seem

00:34:08.940 to be offended by it.

00:34:09.980 She kind of smirks

00:34:10.740 and smiles,

00:34:11.500 but imagine like

00:34:12.220 never shaking the hand

00:34:13.740 of a head of government

00:34:15.060 anywhere else

00:34:15.780 in any other point

00:34:16.700 of the year.

00:34:17.260 And I think,

00:34:17.760 like if you don't shake

00:34:18.520 Kim Jong-un's hand

00:34:19.540 in North Korea, 0.98

00:34:20.120 you're getting executed.

00:34:21.120 If you don't shake 0.98

00:34:22.240 Donald Trump's hand,

00:34:23.260 you're certainly going

00:34:23.920 to have some mean tweets

00:34:24.740 about you.

00:34:25.220 But Angela Merkel,

00:34:26.280 so far it seems like,

00:34:27.580 has not fired her

00:34:28.360 interior minister.

00:34:29.380 So he's following

00:34:30.480 the coronavirus protocol

00:34:31.700 even if she isn't.

00:34:33.700 It's like last week

00:34:34.460 we were talking about

00:34:35.120 on the show

00:34:35.480 with the churches,

00:34:37.100 the Anglican churches

00:34:37.920 in Toronto

00:34:38.520 that are only giving,

00:34:40.300 only encouraging smiles

00:34:42.220 and waves,

00:34:43.600 not hugs and handshakes

00:34:45.120 as we deal

00:34:46.500 with coronavirus.

00:34:47.860 So, you know,

00:34:49.260 it's funny,

00:34:49.580 I got a few emails

00:34:50.360 from people

00:34:50.840 because I did ask

00:34:51.540 for your thoughts

00:34:52.180 last week

00:34:52.800 about whether

00:34:54.200 you're panicked or not.

00:34:55.420 And it seems like

00:34:56.100 I'm not alone

00:34:56.880 in believing

00:34:58.020 that it's probably

00:34:59.020 somewhere in between

00:35:00.480 this is something

00:35:01.860 we should be panicking over

00:35:03.540 and, you know,

00:35:05.680 this is nothing.

00:35:06.620 So I was actually glad

00:35:07.700 I wasn't alone

00:35:08.320 because I thought

00:35:08.800 I'd get hit

00:35:09.280 from both sides on that

00:35:10.240 by people saying,

00:35:11.080 you know,

00:35:11.260 you're fear-mongering

00:35:12.140 and other people telling me,

00:35:13.940 you know,

00:35:14.320 you should be stocking up

00:35:15.420 on doomsday supplies

00:35:16.440 right now.

00:35:17.860 And I had an interesting

00:35:19.560 conversation with a friend of mine

00:35:21.580 who said they were

00:35:22.160 getting a go-bag

00:35:23.200 and I'm thinking,

00:35:24.380 why on earth are you

00:35:24.860 getting a go-bag

00:35:25.740 when the whole point

00:35:26.520 of coronavirus

00:35:26.960 is you want to avoid

00:35:28.100 being around other people?

00:35:29.780 It's like actually

00:35:30.460 the introvert's dream

00:35:31.760 that you don't need

00:35:33.160 to go out

00:35:33.660 and this is being prescribed

00:35:34.920 by doctors and government

00:35:36.500 don't leave

00:35:37.400 and don't have human contact.

00:35:38.900 That sounds like

00:35:39.700 a pretty sweet deal

00:35:40.520 a lot of the time.

00:35:41.980 So for people

00:35:43.280 that are stocking up

00:35:44.460 on hand sanitizer,

00:35:45.620 just stock up on food

00:35:46.480 because if you aren't

00:35:47.180 going to leave your house, 0.86

00:35:48.480 the hand sanitizer

00:35:49.280 isn't going to help you,

00:35:50.360 you will need to eat.

00:35:51.700 So like,

00:35:52.200 I don't know if Uber Eats

00:35:53.120 or Skip the Dishes

00:35:54.240 if they're going to have

00:35:54.940 to start prescribing

00:35:55.880 their drivers

00:35:57.180 with coronavirus masks

00:35:58.640 because the people

00:35:59.380 most likely to be

00:36:00.140 ordering food delivery,

00:36:02.280 people quarantining

00:36:03.260 themselves.

00:36:04.540 So,

00:36:05.080 I could make

00:36:06.240 my first million,

00:36:07.040 have a Skip the Dish

00:36:08.100 branded coronavirus mask

00:36:10.680 and license it to them

00:36:11.720 or just make a mask

00:36:12.800 that you can put

00:36:13.320 a branded logo on

00:36:14.620 and start selling that.

00:36:15.720 This is actually

00:36:16.180 not a bad idea.

00:36:16.860 Maybe we should

00:36:17.320 crowdfund for this.

00:36:19.280 In any case,

00:36:21.220 this story I want to talk about

00:36:22.420 before we wrap things up

00:36:23.760 for today.

00:36:24.280 Brampton City Council

00:36:25.340 passes a motion

00:36:26.400 requiring indigenous

00:36:27.960 land acknowledgements

00:36:29.380 in all public facilities

00:36:30.960 and parks.

00:36:31.800 Now,

00:36:32.320 the motion is technically

00:36:34.020 just to get

00:36:34.900 the city staff

00:36:35.940 to do a report on it.

00:36:37.240 So they're not

00:36:37.760 installing the signs

00:36:39.220 right now.

00:36:39.880 But the mover of this,

00:36:42.320 Councillor Charmaine Williams,

00:36:44.040 has said it's a motion

00:36:44.960 to post land acknowledgement

00:36:46.360 on all city-owned

00:36:47.280 parks and facilities,

00:36:48.640 everything to do

00:36:49.300 with a library,

00:36:50.400 a city museum,

00:36:51.340 a park,

00:36:51.840 community center,

00:36:52.640 ball diamond,

00:36:53.300 sports field,

00:36:54.040 you name it.

00:36:54.980 She thinks there should

00:36:55.760 be a big thing on there

00:36:57.260 that acknowledges

00:36:58.400 the traditional territory

00:36:59.780 of the indigenous

00:37:01.240 ancestors of the land.

00:37:03.800 And the problem

00:37:04.500 with this is that,

00:37:06.280 and I was talking

00:37:06.940 earlier about the need

00:37:07.760 to rebuild relationships

00:37:08.900 with indigenous people.

00:37:10.180 A lot of indigenous people

00:37:11.780 that I've spoken to,

00:37:12.900 and I won't say

00:37:13.620 it's all of them,

00:37:14.840 but of the ones

00:37:15.700 I've spoken to about this,

00:37:17.320 find the land acknowledgements

00:37:18.900 to be pretty ridiculous

00:37:20.520 because it's never 0.92

00:37:21.920 accompanied by action.

00:37:23.700 They think that,

00:37:24.440 yes,

00:37:24.720 acknowledging the history

00:37:25.660 and the heritage is fine,

00:37:26.900 but if you're going

00:37:27.780 to get up there

00:37:28.360 and say,

00:37:29.240 we hereby acknowledge

00:37:30.480 we're on the Chippewas 0.90

00:37:31.720 or the Thames

00:37:32.300 or the Port Credit,

00:37:33.660 the Mississaugas

00:37:34.320 or the Port Credit

00:37:34.980 or whatever,

00:37:35.760 and then you do nothing else

00:37:37.360 to acknowledge

00:37:38.060 or respect them,

00:37:39.240 it's just empty words.

00:37:41.200 It's empty words.

00:37:42.460 So when this idea

00:37:43.720 of let's put up

00:37:44.460 a big sign

00:37:45.220 that says this

00:37:45.840 is the traditional land,

00:37:47.160 it's,

00:37:47.520 well,

00:37:47.620 are you giving it back?

00:37:49.780 Are you returning it?

00:37:50.700 Is it their land?

00:37:51.440 Are you giving it?

00:37:52.060 I mean,

00:37:52.300 there was that great bit,

00:37:53.300 I think it was

00:37:53.800 the Baroness Von Sketch Show,

00:37:55.300 which is one of the few

00:37:56.520 Canadian comedies

00:37:58.120 that's on TV now

00:37:59.020 that I really like,

00:37:59.840 and they were mocking

00:38:00.880 the idea

00:38:02.380 of the land acknowledgement

00:38:03.900 because it is so empty.

00:38:06.060 It was in front

00:38:06.800 of a movie or whatever

00:38:07.600 and they say,

00:38:08.000 oh,

00:38:08.120 are we giving them

00:38:08.940 a portion of the proceeds?

00:38:10.320 Well,

00:38:10.580 no.

00:38:10.900 I mean,

00:38:11.320 oh,

00:38:11.580 well,

00:38:11.740 are we giving them

00:38:12.520 the theater?

00:38:13.260 No.

00:38:13.900 Well,

00:38:14.080 should we leave?

00:38:14.720 No,

00:38:14.880 no,

00:38:14.980 no,

00:38:15.080 stay.

00:38:15.480 You can watch the movie

00:38:16.360 because again,

00:38:17.260 a lot of the time

00:38:18.020 it's just words

00:38:18.720 and even the people

00:38:19.820 saying the words,

00:38:21.160 I don't think necessarily

00:38:23.020 agree or believe

00:38:24.900 or even think about it.

00:38:25.980 They're just going

00:38:26.640 through these motions.

00:38:27.960 So I don't think

00:38:29.200 there's anything wrong

00:38:30.320 with acknowledgements

00:38:31.480 except they become farcical.

00:38:33.980 I was at an event

00:38:34.880 a year ago,

00:38:35.840 a year and a half ago

00:38:36.600 and someone did

00:38:37.600 a land acknowledgement

00:38:38.460 and then someone else

00:38:39.720 on the panel

00:38:40.360 didn't want to be one up

00:38:41.740 so they did their own

00:38:42.840 and they said,

00:38:43.360 I want to acknowledge

00:38:44.360 his acknowledgement

00:38:45.660 and add my own

00:38:47.120 and then at a certain point

00:38:48.260 it's like everyone

00:38:48.820 was feeling left out

00:38:49.920 if they didn't acknowledge

00:38:51.340 in some way

00:38:52.220 and that is theatrical

00:38:54.020 and I would argue

00:38:55.000 it does nothing

00:38:55.740 for indigenous people.

00:38:56.920 It's not putting

00:38:57.380 clean water on reserves.

00:38:58.560 It's not giving employment.

00:39:00.480 It's not doing anything.

00:39:02.020 It's just words

00:39:03.480 and the problem

00:39:04.360 with these acknowledgements

00:39:05.440 is that if they are

00:39:06.140 not accompanied by action

00:39:07.560 you shouldn't be

00:39:08.580 doing them anyway

00:39:09.380 because you are not

00:39:11.280 respecting the tradition

00:39:12.620 you claim to be respecting

00:39:14.080 and if you are doing action

00:39:15.940 then why do you need the words?

00:39:18.580 So it's one of these things

00:39:19.740 that is just completely

00:39:21.240 virtue signaling

00:39:22.100 to the nth degree.

00:39:23.460 In any case,

00:39:24.220 we have to wrap things up.

00:39:25.400 My thanks to all

00:39:26.160 who supported the show,

00:39:27.620 listened to the show

00:39:28.300 and wrote in

00:39:29.380 since last episode.

00:39:30.760 We'll talk to you

00:39:31.380 next week

00:39:32.100 with more of Canada's

00:39:33.140 most irreverent talk show.

00:39:34.840 This is the Andrew Lawton

00:39:35.720 Show on True North.

00:39:36.820 Thank you,

00:39:37.300 God bless

00:39:37.760 and good day Canada.

00:39:39.080 Thanks for listening

00:39:39.720 to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:39:41.240 Support the program

00:39:41.960 by donating to True North

00:39:43.200 at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - March 05, 2020

The Andrew Lawton Show： Negotiating for Nothing

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