Juno News - June 22, 2020


The Art of Self-Cancelling


Episode Stats


Length

39 minutes

Words per minute

175.51193

Word count

6,914

Sentence count

272

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

12

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Ben Mulroney is stepping down from the anchor chair at CTV's ETalk to make room for a Black or Indigenous anchor to replace him. He says he still loves his wife and isn't speaking for her, but it's not his place to speak for her.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's most irreverent talk show. This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.680 Coming up, more casualties in the cancel wars. Was the Nova Scotia killer an RCMP agent and SNC-Lavalin still getting government money?
00:00:25.000 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:30.000 Hey everyone, welcome to another edition of the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:00:35.440 You're listening to Canada's most irreverent talk show here on True North.
00:00:40.020 Another Monday, another week, and another time where the cancel wars are continuing.
00:00:45.080 Yeah, I guess we'll have to devote a little bit of every show now until this current goes away to talking about the people who have lost their job since the last show.
00:00:54.080 And in particular, you might not be eager to stand up and defend Ben Mulroney, who I know is not the most unifying figure.
00:01:02.260 He's like the Nickelback of entertainment television.
00:01:04.840 But there is an interesting thing that's happened here.
00:01:07.480 And this is just coming moments before I started recording the show here.
00:01:10.940 Ben Mulroney is stepping aside from the anchor chair at CTV's eTalk because he wants to, in his words,
00:01:19.720 make space for a black or indigenous or person of color anchor to replace him.
00:01:26.200 So he's not even been canceled for doing anything.
00:01:28.780 He didn't say anything.
00:01:29.520 But he's just deciding to trade in his white privilege, which he acknowledges has contributed to him having the career that he's had and stepping aside.
00:01:37.380 And this is, whether it's connected or not, it's something he did while invoking the name of his wife, Jessica Mulroney,
00:01:43.940 who I don't know if it was last week or two weeks ago, was canceled for not being sufficiently woke in the wake of Black Lives Matter protests.
00:01:52.060 She wasn't even racist.
00:01:53.180 She didn't say anything.
00:01:54.000 She didn't do anything.
00:01:55.280 But a black blogger had criticized Jessica Mulroney for not being as excited as every other celebrity was about Black Lives Matter and not, you know, sharing her excitement enough.
00:02:06.120 So then that ended up being a back and forth that, again, initially just looked like a petty squabble,
00:02:11.860 the kind that you'd expect from an entertainment TV personality and a lifestyle blogger.
00:02:16.480 But that petty squabble in 2020 is evidence of racism.
00:02:20.960 And then Jessica Mulroney has now lost pretty much everything. 1.00
00:02:24.300 She's gotten her show, I Do Redo, canceled.
00:02:27.420 She's gotten a lot of endorsements, even a charity that she founded.
00:02:32.760 She's basically had to take a step back from and all over nothing.
00:02:37.460 I mean, this is someone who's literally been rubbing elbows and shoulders in the society circuit for years.
00:02:43.500 She probably checks off all of the diversity boxes as far as what she believes and what she thinks.
00:02:48.900 But now she's just a white privilege and she's got to go. 0.51
00:02:52.460 So Ben Mulroney, who says he still loves his wife and isn't speaking for her, is now stepping aside on his own.
00:02:59.460 Let me just roll the video that he did for Your Morning on CTV.
00:03:03.380 I want to take a moment to speak to you about the situation surrounding my wife, Jessica, and the next steps I will be taking with Bell Media.
00:03:10.920 I love my wife.
00:03:13.040 However, it is not my place to speak for her.
00:03:15.360 And today, together, we are committed to doing the work to both learn and understand more about anti-black racism,
00:03:21.060 as well as learn and understand more about our blind spots.
00:03:24.760 So what does this mean for me?
00:03:26.500 Well, it means acknowledging here today that my privilege has benefited me greatly.
00:03:31.580 And while I have certainly worked hard to build my career,
00:03:34.640 I know that systemic racism and injustice helps people like me and harms those who aren't like me,
00:03:40.520 often in ways that are invisible to us.
00:03:43.720 This needs to change.
00:03:45.800 Last Saturday, I watched on CTV as my colleagues led a national conversation about how we can take action against systemic racism.
00:03:52.900 And that conversation showed me more than ever, we need more black voices, more indigenous voices,
00:03:58.280 more people of color in the media, as well as every other profession.
00:04:02.020 And that is why I have decided to immediately step away from my role as anchor at eTalk to create space for a new perspective and a new voice.
00:04:11.780 It is my hope that that new anchor is black, indigenous, or a person of color,
00:04:15.940 and they can use this important platform to inspire, to lead, and to make change.
00:04:20.920 I am so proud of everyone involved with eTalk and indeed CTV.
00:04:25.400 And I know they will continue to demonstrate the excellence that has made that show and this network number one.
00:04:31.540 And while I am no longer anchoring eTalk, I will continue to contribute to the show,
00:04:35.920 hosting red carpets, and taking on other special projects here at Bell Media.
00:04:39.760 Of course, I look forward to bringing you the news every day here at Your Morning,
00:04:43.300 alongside my amazing colleagues, Anne-Marie, Lindsay, and Kelsey.
00:04:46.780 So that's the plan. Thank you for your words of kindness, your support,
00:04:52.260 and most importantly, holding us all, including me, accountable.
00:04:56.160 This is the television equivalent of bending the knee even when you've done absolutely nothing wrong.
00:05:03.600 And by the way, if Ben Mulroney thinks that this is a way he can make his contribution to the blow against racism,
00:05:08.560 then fine. I'm not going to fault him for that. He's made a decision.
00:05:12.380 There's no evidence that I've seen that suggests he's been forced out in any way.
00:05:17.000 He's just deciding that he's got too much white privilege.
00:05:20.020 He needs to trade some in and get a bit of credibility in the anti-racism fight.
00:05:24.980 Okay, fine.
00:05:26.080 Now, I don't know whether I'm more bothered by just this sheer absurdity of this exercise,
00:05:32.680 or by the fact that he hasn't really done all that much.
00:05:37.680 This is from the accompanying statement that CTV put out,
00:05:40.640 and Ben kind of indicated this in his thing.
00:05:42.720 He said, the statement says,
00:05:44.380 In addition to his ongoing role as co-host of Your Morning,
00:05:47.780 Mulroney will continue to contribute to eTalk on special assignments,
00:05:51.900 including the red carpet events like the Oscars that have helped make eTalk the leader in Canadian entertainment news.
00:05:57.500 He will also develop and produce projects for Bell Media Studios.
00:06:01.580 So he's got like nine jobs at Bell Media,
00:06:04.320 and it sounds like he's given up basically all but eight of the nine jobs.
00:06:08.780 So he's going to leave eTalk, which I don't even know how many people watch,
00:06:13.320 but he's going to keep co-hosting the morning show.
00:06:15.220 He's going to keep doing the Oscars.
00:06:16.540 He's going to keep putting projects through.
00:06:18.500 So it's not even like his, you know,
00:06:20.420 I'm stepping back so we can make space for black indigenous people of color 1.00
00:06:24.140 is even really done with all that gusto.
00:06:26.780 Why not say, you know, I really think we need a Canadian indigenous red carpet reporter.
00:06:31.580 You know, I think we need a Canadian indigenous co-host of Your Morning.
00:06:35.200 So it's not even like he's committing to the exercise that he's claiming he is.
00:06:40.480 And again, you may think I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here
00:06:43.660 because my initial point is that I don't think he has to do any of this.
00:06:47.560 But I will say if you're going to do it, at least do it.
00:06:50.400 If you're going to do this commitment thing,
00:06:52.740 go the full Monty, do the full Monty,
00:06:54.880 go as far as you can with it and say,
00:06:56.920 yeah, you know what?
00:06:58.240 I'm giving up all my money.
00:06:59.500 I was the beneficiary of privilege.
00:07:01.500 I shouldn't have this.
00:07:02.480 I'm giving up my career.
00:07:03.480 I was the beneficiary of privilege.
00:07:05.560 You know, I will not deny and do not deny
00:07:08.400 and don't think anyone else should deny that racism exists.
00:07:11.200 And I also will say,
00:07:12.660 and this is to the point that we talked about last week
00:07:15.200 with Hal McLeod from, or Hal Johnson from Body Break,
00:07:18.980 him sharing about how racism was responsible
00:07:22.420 for him getting passed over for opportunities.
00:07:24.540 I realize that there are a lot of people in media
00:07:27.400 who have been elevated to positions,
00:07:30.560 not because of their race necessarily,
00:07:33.240 but who certainly people on the minority side of things
00:07:36.100 who have been turned down for jobs because of racism.
00:07:38.380 I don't deny that's happened.
00:07:40.460 But to say that if you are successful and you are white, 0.65
00:07:45.680 you only got there because of your race is offensive.
00:07:49.380 And that's what's happening here
00:07:50.760 is that people are being told
00:07:52.120 and people are believing and internalizing
00:07:54.400 that the white privilege is so powerful
00:07:56.780 that they didn't have to work hard.
00:07:58.960 Look, I know that a lot of people in media
00:08:00.860 who are black and white and other races and cultures
00:08:04.820 have had to work very hard to get where they had to go.
00:08:08.180 Some people work harder.
00:08:09.780 You know, I would say that Ben Mulroney
00:08:11.580 probably benefited more from having the name Mulroney
00:08:15.400 than he did from being white.
00:08:17.940 Jessica Mulroney probably benefited more 0.85
00:08:20.280 from taking on the name Mulroney
00:08:22.140 than she did from being white.
00:08:25.060 Media in Canada is a very insular bubble.
00:08:28.280 Media is hereditary.
00:08:29.560 It's in your genetics in this country
00:08:31.500 where the sons and grandchildren of people
00:08:34.440 tend to rise up well.
00:08:36.300 Other people who aren't part of that in crowd,
00:08:38.180 who aren't part of those society groups,
00:08:40.020 don't do as well,
00:08:41.020 especially in Toronto and especially in television.
00:08:43.600 So there is a privilege that...
00:08:45.920 What about Mulroney privilege?
00:08:47.240 I mean, Mulroney privilege is powerful
00:08:49.040 and more powerful than white privilege.
00:08:51.080 And that's not what's being spoken about.
00:08:53.620 The point is that if you start talking
00:08:55.620 about a level playing field,
00:08:57.220 you're going to reveal all of these contradictions
00:08:59.960 which make it impossible,
00:09:03.160 absolutely impossible,
00:09:04.400 to find a way forward
00:09:06.040 that will give that equality of outcome
00:09:08.240 that so many people seem to want.
00:09:10.680 That equality of outcome
00:09:11.680 that you cannot manufacture,
00:09:13.260 that you cannot manipulate into happening
00:09:15.020 because decision-making, success,
00:09:17.660 all of these things are a lot more complex
00:09:20.260 than a lot of the critics right now
00:09:22.500 are making them out to be.
00:09:24.560 And again, suppose that you have...
00:09:26.580 And I don't want to name names here,
00:09:28.280 but suppose that you have
00:09:29.200 a very successful person of color
00:09:31.360 who's in media in Canada.
00:09:33.020 Their son or daughter
00:09:34.260 is going to have a better shot at success
00:09:38.200 than someone who happens to be white
00:09:40.940 who's not connected.
00:09:42.020 So there's a form of familial privilege right there
00:09:46.300 that is not racial,
00:09:48.060 that is not cultural,
00:09:49.060 that is not ethnic,
00:09:49.900 that is none of those things.
00:09:52.000 And, you know, education,
00:09:53.880 a lot of where you've come from,
00:09:56.660 I mean, if you're not from Toronto,
00:09:58.580 the idea that you could just break
00:10:00.640 into the Toronto media bubble
00:10:02.380 is not a given at all.
00:10:04.220 There are people that are born there
00:10:05.840 that are from that city
00:10:06.680 that are going to be a lot more connected
00:10:08.380 to those groups and to those crowds.
00:10:10.600 That's always been the way it is.
00:10:12.020 And again, that doesn't make it right.
00:10:13.480 I'm not saying it's right or wrong.
00:10:15.020 I'm not passing a moral judgment here.
00:10:17.140 But the idea that you can distill privilege down
00:10:19.660 solely to race,
00:10:21.280 which is what a lot of people are doing,
00:10:23.000 to such an extent
00:10:24.140 that people who have had success
00:10:26.240 who are white
00:10:27.020 are no longer able to partake in that
00:10:29.700 in society.
00:10:30.700 It's that what a lot of the protesters want,
00:10:32.980 and I'm not talking about people
00:10:33.820 that are talking about genuine equality
00:10:35.540 and people that are talking about police reform
00:10:38.520 and a lot of these sensible things,
00:10:40.260 but the people that are saying
00:10:41.640 we have to tear down white privilege,
00:10:43.740 they are trying to craft a vision of this
00:10:46.720 and craft a narrative of this
00:10:48.060 that suggests that no white person
00:10:50.060 could ever have been capable of anything.
00:10:52.320 And in a lot of ways,
00:10:53.340 they seem to want to replace
00:10:54.620 what they identify as one problem
00:10:56.560 with another problem.
00:10:58.620 So when Ben Mulroney gets up and says,
00:11:00.520 you know what, I'm going to step down
00:11:01.940 so that I can put a black, 0.99
00:11:03.100 indigenous person of color here,
00:11:04.640 he's saying that we need to put someone
00:11:06.820 into that position solely because of their race.
00:11:10.760 And we've heard countless stories
00:11:13.220 of affirmative action programs,
00:11:14.960 especially in academia,
00:11:15.980 that have caused a reverse racism effect.
00:11:20.100 You have that job posting we talked about last week
00:11:22.660 from CBC Kids a while ago,
00:11:24.620 which was saying they wanted any race but Caucasian.
00:11:27.440 The diversity trend has been a very powerful one
00:11:31.260 for quite a while to such a point that,
00:11:33.680 yeah, there are certainly people
00:11:35.040 that have been turned down from jobs
00:11:37.340 because they're white.
00:11:39.180 And a lot of people don't want to have these dialogues
00:11:41.760 because they say, well, they're different.
00:11:43.180 I mean, in one case,
00:11:44.020 you're trying to correct a problem.
00:11:45.880 And in the other case, it is the problem itself.
00:11:48.220 But if you try to solve one thing
00:11:50.500 with basically the identical problem in reverse,
00:11:53.360 you're not really doing all that much.
00:11:55.540 And this is where you have to look at
00:11:56.980 how no one is going to end up
00:11:59.080 in this situation particularly well.
00:12:01.600 The industries that we're trying to reform here
00:12:03.940 are not edified by this.
00:12:05.920 You've just got people like Ben Mulroney
00:12:07.700 that get to, I can't really think
00:12:09.520 of any other explanation for it,
00:12:10.960 but say they're claiming some credibility
00:12:12.480 in the social justice circuit by saying,
00:12:15.340 you know, I've got to make room.
00:12:17.780 And in a lot of ways, it's that,
00:12:19.500 what's that narrative you hear,
00:12:20.880 the white savior narrative?
00:12:22.200 You know, I'm, oh, I'm being an ally,
00:12:24.460 but you're not actually doing anything.
00:12:25.720 You just take a little bit less off your plate
00:12:27.700 and you don't lose any of the really prestigious parts of it
00:12:30.940 because there are still people
00:12:32.480 that are being canceled,
00:12:34.280 that are having their jobs lost,
00:12:35.680 that are not getting to make the decision
00:12:37.440 like Ben Mulroney did
00:12:39.320 for reasons that have absolutely nothing
00:12:41.820 to do with racism.
00:12:44.280 I want to turn to British Columbia here
00:12:46.440 where Michael Korenberg resigned from his position
00:12:49.940 as chair and board member
00:12:51.220 at the University of British Columbia
00:12:53.140 on the board of governors
00:12:54.320 for being, as CBC says, racist.
00:12:58.180 He liked racist and far-right comments on Twitter.
00:13:01.440 Daily Hive as well did a story.
00:13:03.440 UBC board of governors chair resigns
00:13:05.480 after liking racist pro-Trump tweets.
00:13:08.480 Now, I say a lot of things about CBC
00:13:10.680 as I know a lot of you
00:13:11.740 who tune into this show do as well.
00:13:14.300 This is beyond the pale.
00:13:16.720 They've said that he likes racist
00:13:18.640 and far-right comments on Twitter.
00:13:20.360 They repeated in the lead line,
00:13:21.760 the chair of the University of British Columbia's
00:13:25.000 board of governors has resigned
00:13:26.320 after liking racist and conspiracy theory posts
00:13:29.480 on Twitter, including tweets disparaging
00:13:31.820 the Black Lives Matter movement.
00:13:34.200 Now, what did he like that was so racist,
00:13:36.680 you might ask?
00:13:37.380 Well, that's a very good question,
00:13:38.540 person who asked that.
00:13:39.780 The story doesn't actually say.
00:13:41.680 The story does not identify any racism at all.
00:13:46.320 The story just takes it for granted
00:13:48.240 and expects you to take for granted
00:13:49.700 that this guy was racist
00:13:51.120 for liking racist things on Twitter.
00:13:53.360 And then you look at the detail.
00:13:55.120 He posted or he liked photos
00:13:57.900 and tweets and stuff
00:13:59.360 that included praise for Donald Trump,
00:14:02.300 another tweet that referenced protesters
00:14:04.340 as violent looters,
00:14:05.900 and a conspiracy theory
00:14:07.240 that compared Black Lives Matter protests
00:14:09.040 to Adolf Hitler's paramilitary tactics.
00:14:11.760 Now, he didn't say this.
00:14:13.080 He didn't do anything about this.
00:14:14.440 He liked tweets that made these claims.
00:14:17.300 He liked tweets.
00:14:18.400 That was his crime.
00:14:19.700 And what happened is
00:14:21.120 this is enough to get a group called
00:14:23.340 UBC Students Against Bigotry
00:14:26.300 to start harassing and campaigning.
00:14:29.580 And eventually he resigns.
00:14:31.560 I say fired because when you resign
00:14:33.580 in the midst of a mob,
00:14:34.600 it's not like you're actually
00:14:35.700 just doing the Ben Mulroney thing
00:14:37.200 and saying,
00:14:37.720 I'm just going to take a step back.
00:14:39.260 You're done.
00:14:40.420 Now, he gave a statement
00:14:41.860 that I thought was absolutely abysmal
00:14:43.840 and embarrassing.
00:14:45.240 And in this statement,
00:14:46.140 he basically seeds everything
00:14:48.740 that the people were saying about him.
00:14:51.220 He says,
00:14:51.820 there's nothing he's cared more about
00:14:53.560 than the well-being of students,
00:14:55.020 faculty, and staff,
00:14:56.040 the pursuit of the university's academic mission,
00:14:58.300 and the betterment of society.
00:15:00.200 It was a responsibility I took seriously,
00:15:02.660 but one I did not uphold recently.
00:15:05.120 He says,
00:15:05.780 Well, I do not support violence of any kind.
00:15:08.540 I understand how my actions created questions
00:15:10.760 about who I am and what I believe in.
00:15:13.180 To be clear,
00:15:13.940 I support Black Lives Matter
00:15:15.540 and I support the deracialization 1.00
00:15:17.480 of our educational institutions
00:15:19.160 and our country.
00:15:20.100 But I accept that in liking
00:15:21.900 these social media posts,
00:15:23.540 I damaged what I support
00:15:25.040 and that I hurt people.
00:15:26.600 I wholeheartedly apologize to them,
00:15:28.520 particularly to the students,
00:15:30.140 faculty, and staff of UBC.
00:15:32.340 He says racism is real
00:15:33.540 and he wants to be a part of the solution.
00:15:35.060 So this is not a guy
00:15:36.640 whose full-time job and livelihood
00:15:38.300 was being the chair of the board.
00:15:39.800 Like all of these boards,
00:15:40.800 he's got another job, another career,
00:15:42.520 and I think it was probably easy
00:15:44.040 for him to walk back.
00:15:46.720 But when you look at the response to this,
00:15:49.440 this is where I go down the road
00:15:51.000 of thinking this isn't just a resignation
00:15:53.160 that's entirely in his hands.
00:15:55.060 Because the university threw him
00:15:56.660 under the bus right away.
00:15:58.140 The government threw him under the bus.
00:16:00.260 The advanced education minister in BC
00:16:02.960 said that, you know,
00:16:04.560 government and UBC are deeply committed
00:16:06.560 to inclusion, justice, and equality for all.
00:16:10.220 The university gave what I thought
00:16:12.280 was a horrendous statement
00:16:13.760 saying that it's been deeply hurtful
00:16:17.200 to members of our community
00:16:18.480 and UBC has zero tolerance for racism
00:16:21.280 and recognizes that real harm
00:16:23.480 is created from both overt
00:16:25.040 and structural racism.
00:16:27.520 No one has said
00:16:28.620 what the racist part is though.
00:16:30.460 Is it racist that he likes Donald Trump
00:16:33.460 or liked a tweet
00:16:34.320 that was supporting Donald Trump?
00:16:36.120 Is it racist that he's critical
00:16:37.440 of Black Lives Matter?
00:16:38.900 Is it racist that he's critical
00:16:40.720 of protesters that are looting violently?
00:16:43.360 And I mean, again,
00:16:44.200 I'm going down the road they're doing.
00:16:45.580 He didn't actually say any of this.
00:16:48.040 Liking a tweet.
00:16:49.560 Liking a tweet is pretty much
00:16:51.220 the lowest bar imaginable.
00:16:53.700 So this is the epitome of thought crime
00:16:55.840 because what's being targeted here
00:16:57.420 is not what he said,
00:16:58.640 not what he did,
00:16:59.320 not what he stands for,
00:17:00.380 but a tweet that he might have
00:17:01.920 resonated with or supported
00:17:03.300 if that's even the case.
00:17:04.820 Some people just like tweets
00:17:06.060 to bookmark them.
00:17:07.300 He had said in an interview
00:17:08.360 with the student newspaper at UBC
00:17:10.800 that he didn't know
00:17:11.580 his Twitter account was public.
00:17:13.060 So, I mean, this is like
00:17:14.120 an OK Boomer moment
00:17:15.500 if ever there was one.
00:17:17.240 But he's absolutely said
00:17:19.900 and done nothing.
00:17:21.200 And now he's been,
00:17:22.320 he's lost this position.
00:17:23.780 He's been branded a racist.
00:17:25.480 And even CBC,
00:17:26.960 for whatever problems you might have,
00:17:28.980 should know better
00:17:30.120 than to be this irresponsible
00:17:31.840 as to just accept racism,
00:17:35.680 accept the premise,
00:17:36.880 put it in the headline,
00:17:37.840 put it in the lead
00:17:38.460 without articulating what it was.
00:17:40.660 And maybe they're parroting it
00:17:42.560 from the UBC student group,
00:17:44.980 Students Against Bigotry,
00:17:46.000 because they said
00:17:46.960 in one of their tweets
00:17:48.760 to tear down this guy,
00:17:50.520 does he support
00:17:51.600 the white supremacist
00:17:52.980 in the White House
00:17:54.120 and his calls for violence?
00:17:56.100 So to UBC students
00:17:57.880 against bigotry,
00:17:59.180 you're racist
00:17:59.840 if you support Donald Trump.
00:18:01.440 Well, I hate to break it to you,
00:18:02.640 but that's pretty much
00:18:03.320 half the United States of America
00:18:04.900 and a pretty good chunk
00:18:06.260 of Canadians as well
00:18:07.260 that supports the guy
00:18:08.260 who's the leader
00:18:08.880 of the free world.
00:18:09.760 So you can't say
00:18:10.760 that support for Donald Trump,
00:18:12.300 if this guy even supports Trump,
00:18:14.240 and I have no idea,
00:18:15.940 is tantamount to racism.
00:18:18.440 But the cancel wars,
00:18:19.880 the bar keeps getting
00:18:21.140 lower and lower and lower.
00:18:22.900 And a lot of people
00:18:23.620 are jumping up and down
00:18:24.600 on this guy saying,
00:18:25.760 well, he shouldn't have rolled over.
00:18:27.160 He shouldn't have apologized.
00:18:28.640 Let me tell you something.
00:18:29.640 If you have been
00:18:30.280 in the mob's crosshairs,
00:18:32.160 you would understand
00:18:33.460 that there is an entirely
00:18:35.200 reasonable proposition
00:18:36.340 that you think
00:18:37.120 this destruction of my life,
00:18:39.080 of my life's work,
00:18:39.900 of my reputation,
00:18:40.520 it's going to end
00:18:42.040 if I apologize and move on.
00:18:44.480 I understand
00:18:45.160 that thought process.
00:18:46.800 Now, it doesn't work.
00:18:47.920 As we see,
00:18:49.040 now they're jumping up and down
00:18:50.500 trying to get him cancelled
00:18:51.840 from every other board position
00:18:53.280 and every other job he has.
00:18:54.780 So it's not like it's successful.
00:18:57.000 But I get it.
00:18:57.880 And I'm not going to
00:18:58.660 accuse this guy of rolling over
00:19:00.880 even if he does set
00:19:02.940 the right side
00:19:05.500 of these cancel wars back a bit
00:19:07.260 by just giving in.
00:19:09.100 But now he goes down,
00:19:10.640 he's cemented.
00:19:11.400 When you Google his name,
00:19:12.840 you're going to see
00:19:13.900 the word racist.
00:19:15.340 And it's unchallenged,
00:19:16.560 it's unexplained,
00:19:17.440 but most people
00:19:18.340 aren't going to parse
00:19:19.000 that CBC story
00:19:20.140 and see,
00:19:20.720 okay, well, wait,
00:19:21.760 where is the racism?
00:19:22.980 And they don't describe it.
00:19:24.300 I've read through
00:19:24.820 the story three times.
00:19:25.800 They do not describe
00:19:26.660 what it is he said
00:19:27.740 that they identify as racist.
00:19:30.100 It's either support for Trump,
00:19:32.100 criticism of Black Lives Matter,
00:19:33.900 or criticism
00:19:35.420 of Black Lives Matter protesters.
00:19:37.500 Either way,
00:19:38.580 there is a case to be made
00:19:39.840 that you can make
00:19:40.400 any of those comments
00:19:41.240 without having
00:19:42.100 a racist bone in your body
00:19:43.520 and even have a leg
00:19:44.600 to stand on in doing so.
00:19:45.940 And it's not articulated.
00:19:47.900 And there's a huge danger
00:19:49.280 in this.
00:19:50.600 Same as far right.
00:19:52.600 Far right's another one.
00:19:53.700 CBC uses that in the headline.
00:19:55.620 What's far right?
00:19:56.720 I mean,
00:19:56.920 True North during
00:19:57.720 the last federal election
00:19:59.020 was called far right
00:20:00.160 by one news outlet
00:20:02.320 that I can't,
00:20:03.380 I won't tell you who it was,
00:20:04.320 but it rhymes
00:20:04.680 with Shmuffington Schmost.
00:20:06.140 And we actually challenged it.
00:20:08.280 Not because we care
00:20:09.200 what the Shmuffington Schmost, 0.91
00:20:10.960 I think that's what I called it,
00:20:11.900 thinks about us,
00:20:13.060 but because you cannot
00:20:14.300 let these things
00:20:15.720 that are to the writer
00:20:16.920 subtle,
00:20:18.200 but are not subtle
00:20:19.160 to the reader.
00:20:19.760 You cannot let them stand.
00:20:21.480 And we asked,
00:20:22.360 Hey,
00:20:22.640 why are you saying far right?
00:20:24.260 Give the explanation.
00:20:25.940 And they don't defend it.
00:20:27.160 They just quietly change it
00:20:28.480 because they know
00:20:29.820 that what they're trying to do
00:20:31.400 is they're trying to deny you
00:20:33.840 the right to define yourself
00:20:36.060 by using very loaded terms,
00:20:38.560 loaded terms
00:20:39.240 that really take down
00:20:40.980 your respect
00:20:41.700 in the eyes of a reader
00:20:42.680 that's not connected
00:20:43.500 with what you're doing.
00:20:45.180 And this is why
00:20:45.820 you need to push back against it.
00:20:47.560 Whether you're a Ben Mulroney,
00:20:49.280 a Michael Korenberg,
00:20:50.600 a True North,
00:20:51.300 whoever you are,
00:20:52.780 this culture
00:20:53.700 is not going to lose
00:20:56.360 if people don't push back against it.
00:20:59.140 We've got to take a break.
00:21:00.120 When we come back,
00:21:00.860 more of The Andrew Lawton Show
00:21:02.040 here on True North.
00:21:04.460 You're tuned in
00:21:05.620 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:21:09.880 We are back.
00:21:10.940 This is The Andrew Lawton Show
00:21:12.340 on True North.
00:21:13.620 And you may remember
00:21:14.320 we covered earlier on in the year
00:21:16.600 that horrific, horrific attack,
00:21:18.440 the most deadly mass shooting
00:21:19.800 in Canadian history
00:21:20.960 in and around
00:21:22.200 Portapique, Nova Scotia.
00:21:24.240 And so many questions
00:21:26.060 still from this.
00:21:27.200 I know that the gun control narrative
00:21:28.720 was one that became
00:21:29.700 very relevant
00:21:30.800 with the Liberals
00:21:31.980 ramming gun control legislation
00:21:34.120 that wouldn't have done anything
00:21:35.640 to stop this.
00:21:36.680 But now there are still
00:21:37.780 a lot of questions
00:21:38.520 about the motivation
00:21:39.820 behind this attack.
00:21:42.340 And if you believe
00:21:43.140 that understanding motivation
00:21:44.440 can help to prevent
00:21:45.320 future such attacks,
00:21:47.000 these questions are significant.
00:21:48.400 A McLean story,
00:21:50.260 the Nova Scotia shooter case
00:21:51.840 has hallmarks
00:21:52.540 of an undercover operation.
00:21:55.000 They have a bunch
00:21:56.080 of anonymous sources
00:21:57.060 in policing and banking
00:21:58.460 saying that
00:21:59.940 the fact that the killer
00:22:01.180 was able to withdraw
00:22:02.220 $475,000
00:22:03.960 in cash
00:22:05.120 from Brinks Banking
00:22:07.060 which does not at all
00:22:08.480 serve consumers directly
00:22:10.940 is typical
00:22:12.460 of how the RCMP
00:22:13.800 would pay informants
00:22:15.340 or agents.
00:22:16.060 Now there's a lot
00:22:16.580 of speculation
00:22:17.160 but they do lay out
00:22:19.140 some facts
00:22:19.760 of that type of banking
00:22:21.380 and that amount of money
00:22:22.620 that does make it
00:22:24.120 a little bit
00:22:24.720 of a curious transaction.
00:22:26.540 Of course then
00:22:27.140 in response to this
00:22:27.980 you have the RCMP
00:22:29.260 telling the Toronto Star
00:22:30.540 that fears about
00:22:32.140 the pandemic
00:22:32.780 were what made
00:22:34.240 the killer want to
00:22:35.140 take out all his money
00:22:36.200 and that was that.
00:22:37.740 It was no relationship
00:22:38.720 with the RCMP.
00:22:39.760 He wasn't an operative,
00:22:40.940 an agent,
00:22:41.500 an informant
00:22:42.360 or anything like that.
00:22:43.740 I want to make sense
00:22:44.660 of this.
00:22:45.200 Joining me now
00:22:45.840 is True North fellow
00:22:46.780 and former RCMP officer
00:22:48.420 Leo Knight.
00:22:49.500 Leo, good to talk to you sir.
00:22:50.560 Thanks for coming on today.
00:22:51.820 Good morning Andrew.
00:22:53.600 So when you saw
00:22:54.900 this initial McLean story
00:22:56.620 is your response
00:22:57.440 this is insane
00:22:58.320 or did it have
00:22:59.360 the ring of truth to you?
00:23:00.560 I think
00:23:02.380 and as I said
00:23:03.780 to you
00:23:04.300 and a couple
00:23:04.800 of other folks
00:23:05.540 at True North
00:23:06.280 I said it was
00:23:06.960 wild speculation.
00:23:08.820 I haven't changed
00:23:09.900 that opinion at all.
00:23:12.660 For example
00:23:13.780 he apparently
00:23:15.340 withdrew something
00:23:16.280 in the neighbourhood
00:23:16.880 of $435,000
00:23:18.920 in his brink withdrawal.
00:23:21.700 That's a substantial
00:23:22.680 amount of money
00:23:23.560 but in reality
00:23:25.020 it's not that much
00:23:26.760 in terms of overall volume.
00:23:28.620 You could easily
00:23:29.060 set it into a hockey bag
00:23:31.680 and it would weigh about
00:23:32.620 I don't know
00:23:33.180 11 pounds, 12 pounds
00:23:34.620 something in that neighbourhood.
00:23:36.400 So it's easily transportable.
00:23:38.240 That's sort of thing one.
00:23:40.880 Thing two
00:23:41.720 is we don't know
00:23:42.520 where the source
00:23:43.240 of the money was.
00:23:44.720 Did he cash in
00:23:46.780 some of his lucrative properties?
00:23:48.700 We know he had
00:23:49.440 almost $500,000
00:23:50.940 in RRSP savings.
00:23:53.740 Did he cash that in?
00:23:55.000 And we don't know
00:23:55.820 and the banking records
00:23:56.860 are just not open to us
00:23:58.460 to try and ascertain
00:24:00.660 any of those answers.
00:24:03.460 Finally
00:24:04.060 if it was a
00:24:05.640 situation
00:24:07.280 of a confidential informant
00:24:09.220 I would have expected
00:24:11.160 that information
00:24:12.220 might have come out
00:24:13.060 a whole lot sooner
00:24:14.220 than this.
00:24:15.540 There's no question
00:24:16.800 that
00:24:17.340 this guy had
00:24:20.480 as a friend
00:24:21.360 the so-called
00:24:22.800 shadowy guy
00:24:23.720 Peter Ellen Griffin
00:24:24.860 who was connected
00:24:26.100 to organized crime
00:24:27.240 and had done a stretch
00:24:28.100 of prison in Alberta
00:24:29.340 and Griffin was actually
00:24:31.820 the guy who cut
00:24:32.900 and provided
00:24:33.920 the decals
00:24:34.700 for the
00:24:35.380 official RCMP
00:24:37.640 look
00:24:38.180 on Workman's car
00:24:39.780 and there's no question
00:24:42.040 Griffin's as shady
00:24:43.860 as it gets
00:24:44.700 but
00:24:45.660 and here
00:24:46.540 I will insert
00:24:47.440 a huge but
00:24:48.600 for him to be getting
00:24:50.480 that kind of money
00:24:51.640 from the RCMP
00:24:52.660 he would have had
00:24:53.700 to have been
00:24:54.260 an integral
00:24:55.500 piece of the composition
00:24:58.040 in terms of being
00:24:59.300 a major player
00:25:00.320 as a confidential informant.
00:25:02.780 The Nova Scotia
00:25:03.680 Hells Angels chapter
00:25:05.940 such as it is
00:25:07.000 is still
00:25:09.060 in its fledgling stages.
00:25:11.500 It had a chapter
00:25:12.600 a number of years ago
00:25:13.580 back in the 90s
00:25:14.640 but that chapter closed
00:25:16.240 after a series
00:25:17.720 of
00:25:18.160 completely booted
00:25:20.420 unprofessional
00:25:21.380 murders.
00:25:23.440 The Quebec 0.53
00:25:24.000 Nomads chapter
00:25:26.240 took them over
00:25:27.080 and disbanded
00:25:28.020 the chapter
00:25:29.120 and took away
00:25:29.960 their patches
00:25:30.580 and that sort of thing.
00:25:32.180 What remains now
00:25:33.260 is actually
00:25:34.000 rising from the ashes
00:25:36.640 if you will
00:25:38.520 from a series
00:25:39.220 of puppet gangs
00:25:40.160 that were in place
00:25:41.200 to handle the drug dealing
00:25:42.580 and stuff like that.
00:25:44.640 But they're in no
00:25:45.980 way, shape,
00:25:48.160 or form
00:25:48.660 in the big leagues
00:25:49.660 the way the Quebec
00:25:51.180 Nomads
00:25:51.820 or the BC
00:25:52.780 chapters
00:25:53.820 of the
00:25:54.800 Hells Angels
00:25:55.540 or anything
00:25:56.220 along those lines.
00:25:57.440 They're
00:25:57.740 big players
00:25:59.820 who are trying
00:26:00.420 to get into
00:26:00.880 the big times.
00:26:01.840 So I can't see
00:26:02.740 the RCMP
00:26:03.560 paying that kind
00:26:04.680 of money
00:26:05.100 especially
00:26:06.260 in as small
00:26:07.040 a jurisdiction
00:26:07.740 as Nova Scotia
00:26:09.000 for a confidential
00:26:11.000 informant.
00:26:11.720 That's just my opinion.
00:26:13.180 I base that
00:26:14.020 on no
00:26:14.700 specific information
00:26:17.500 other than
00:26:18.060 my own speculation.
00:26:20.180 One of the things
00:26:21.220 that the McLean's article
00:26:22.400 did that I don't know
00:26:23.720 how exactly
00:26:24.680 I feel about it.
00:26:25.840 They have this paragraph
00:26:27.220 about the RCMP
00:26:28.260 operations manual
00:26:29.460 which they say
00:26:30.240 authorizes the police
00:26:31.560 to mislead
00:26:32.440 anyone and everyone
00:26:33.600 with the exception
00:26:34.280 of the courts
00:26:34.940 to conceal the identity
00:26:36.200 of confidential
00:26:36.960 informants.
00:26:37.680 So then
00:26:37.920 what that does
00:26:39.300 is when the RCMP
00:26:40.560 tells people
00:26:41.680 like they did
00:26:42.180 to the Toronto Star
00:26:42.940 that it had no
00:26:43.600 relationship
00:26:44.180 with Wartman
00:26:45.880 this paragraph
00:26:47.200 tends to make people
00:26:48.340 oh but well
00:26:48.900 you know
00:26:49.260 the manual says
00:26:50.220 they could lie
00:26:50.780 about that.
00:26:51.660 What's your take
00:26:52.240 on that aspect
00:26:53.220 of it?
00:26:53.740 I mean if they
00:26:54.240 were concealing
00:26:55.080 this
00:26:55.520 would they just
00:26:56.680 keep concealing
00:26:57.400 that?
00:26:58.680 Well they would
00:26:59.920 Andrew.
00:27:00.600 The part of
00:27:02.080 dealing with
00:27:02.580 a confidential
00:27:03.180 informant
00:27:04.060 is that
00:27:04.500 that person's
00:27:05.780 safety
00:27:06.140 is very
00:27:06.620 life
00:27:07.100 is entrusted
00:27:08.300 in your hands
00:27:09.200 and depends
00:27:09.860 upon you
00:27:10.480 to keep
00:27:11.080 to keep
00:27:11.940 a secret
00:27:12.440 as it were.
00:27:14.560 Reference
00:27:15.240 to that
00:27:15.720 particular
00:27:16.300 paragraph
00:27:16.840 that refers
00:27:17.660 more to
00:27:18.500 giving
00:27:20.580 an informant
00:27:22.480 or an agent
00:27:23.360 of the RCMP
00:27:24.280 a little bit
00:27:25.880 of carte blanche
00:27:26.700 to lie
00:27:27.920 to make
00:27:28.700 a dope deal
00:27:29.540 to buy
00:27:30.880 stolen property
00:27:31.840 or something
00:27:32.800 along those lines
00:27:33.920 to maintain
00:27:34.700 a cover
00:27:35.260 and it
00:27:36.300 really means
00:27:36.960 no more
00:27:37.380 than that.
00:27:39.140 How common
00:27:40.320 are
00:27:40.880 because they
00:27:41.600 say confidential
00:27:42.440 informants
00:27:43.180 and agents
00:27:44.120 so these
00:27:45.260 are two
00:27:45.580 different things
00:27:46.220 here.
00:27:46.480 What's the
00:27:46.940 difference
00:27:47.220 between them?
00:27:49.300 If you give
00:27:50.380 me information
00:27:51.340 relative to
00:27:52.880 something that's
00:27:53.500 going on
00:27:54.220 that I'm
00:27:54.960 interested in
00:27:55.860 that makes
00:27:56.600 you an 0.64
00:27:56.940 informant.
00:27:57.560 if you
00:27:58.420 offer to
00:27:59.480 introduce
00:28:00.440 me to
00:28:01.420 that
00:28:02.380 individual
00:28:03.040 as part
00:28:04.760 of a
00:28:05.040 UCO
00:28:05.560 or undercover
00:28:06.180 operation
00:28:07.120 that makes
00:28:08.060 you an 0.64
00:28:08.420 agent
00:28:08.780 because you're
00:28:09.460 doing something
00:28:10.320 specific.
00:28:11.940 You're taking
00:28:12.340 an action.
00:28:14.320 And the
00:28:14.880 information that
00:28:15.840 you provided
00:28:16.360 a few moments
00:28:17.160 ago about
00:28:17.720 just the
00:28:18.360 amount of
00:28:19.200 money that
00:28:19.640 would be at
00:28:20.040 stake there
00:28:20.640 that's still
00:28:22.100 the same
00:28:22.540 if he were
00:28:23.200 an agent
00:28:23.720 instead of
00:28:24.420 a confidential
00:28:25.120 informant
00:28:25.720 theoretically,
00:28:26.120 correct?
00:28:27.380 In theory
00:28:27.940 an agent
00:28:28.460 would make
00:28:28.920 more money
00:28:29.480 because he's
00:28:30.120 taking more
00:28:30.980 risks upon
00:28:32.800 his life.
00:28:33.340 But would we
00:28:33.740 be talking
00:28:34.160 about half
00:28:34.620 a million
00:28:34.960 dollars for
00:28:35.780 what we know
00:28:36.740 about the
00:28:37.220 circumstances
00:28:37.840 so far?
00:28:39.560 I don't
00:28:40.420 think so.
00:28:41.120 Certainly
00:28:41.420 not in
00:28:41.920 Nova Scotia.
00:28:43.200 The one
00:28:43.620 case I can
00:28:44.340 put to it
00:28:45.120 that's sort
00:28:45.760 of an
00:28:46.140 equivalent
00:28:46.640 involved an
00:28:47.500 agent who
00:28:48.160 is a
00:28:48.540 bouncer
00:28:48.920 in a
00:28:49.300 strip bar
00:28:49.920 working for
00:28:51.680 a Hell's
00:28:52.920 Angel
00:28:53.220 member
00:28:54.160 singular
00:28:54.980 specifically
00:28:56.720 and that
00:28:58.040 guy was
00:28:58.480 paid a
00:28:58.900 fraction
00:28:59.300 of that
00:28:59.880 amount
00:29:00.260 of money.
00:29:01.120 Now,
00:29:01.520 granted,
00:29:01.920 that was
00:29:02.100 a few
00:29:02.400 years ago
00:29:02.980 but still
00:29:03.660 I think
00:29:04.260 it shows
00:29:04.720 that in
00:29:05.420 the big
00:29:06.700 leagues of
00:29:07.360 Ontario
00:29:08.000 or British
00:29:08.820 Columbia
00:29:09.400 or Quebec
00:29:11.020 it's probably
00:29:12.520 worth something.
00:29:14.700 In the
00:29:15.420 small town
00:29:16.380 I don't want
00:29:18.600 to say
00:29:18.880 bush league
00:29:19.480 but say
00:29:19.920 the
00:29:20.640 environic
00:29:22.500 starting
00:29:23.060 up
00:29:23.540 of
00:29:24.540 Hell's
00:29:24.980 Angels
00:29:25.260 chapter
00:29:25.780 in
00:29:26.300 Nova
00:29:26.580 Scotia
00:29:27.200 certainly
00:29:28.100 not worth
00:29:28.600 that
00:29:28.780 kind
00:29:29.000 of
00:29:29.120 money.
00:29:30.520 With all
00:29:31.260 due
00:29:31.500 respect
00:29:31.840 to your
00:29:32.180 former
00:29:32.480 colleagues
00:29:33.040 at the
00:29:33.500 RCMP
00:29:34.020 one
00:29:34.620 frustration
00:29:35.360 that a lot
00:29:35.820 of people
00:29:36.120 have had
00:29:36.600 is that
00:29:37.120 police
00:29:37.460 are by
00:29:38.360 default
00:29:39.000 tight-lipped
00:29:39.600 on things
00:29:40.380 and I'd
00:29:40.880 say even
00:29:41.280 to the
00:29:41.540 point
00:29:41.740 where they
00:29:42.020 don't
00:29:42.200 have
00:29:42.460 to be
00:29:42.740 and
00:29:42.920 in a
00:29:43.600 lot
00:29:43.740 of
00:29:43.840 cases
00:29:44.140 when
00:29:44.340 questions
00:29:44.740 have been
00:29:45.020 posed
00:29:45.300 to the
00:29:45.560 RCMP
00:29:46.020 they say
00:29:46.560 it's early
00:29:46.980 we can't
00:29:47.480 comment
00:29:47.860 it's early
00:29:48.400 it's an
00:29:48.720 ongoing
00:29:48.980 investigation
00:29:49.500 we can't
00:29:50.100 comment
00:29:50.400 I found
00:29:51.360 it interesting
00:29:51.880 though that
00:29:52.200 when this
00:29:52.520 story came
00:29:53.220 out about
00:29:54.620 any sort
00:29:55.640 of potential
00:29:56.180 relationship
00:29:56.860 and again
00:29:57.300 it is all
00:29:58.060 speculative
00:29:58.600 the RCMP
00:29:59.720 was very
00:30:00.260 quick to
00:30:00.760 say
00:30:01.000 you know
00:30:01.540 maybe he
00:30:02.240 withdrew the
00:30:02.740 money for
00:30:03.180 pandemic
00:30:03.640 related reasons
00:30:04.580 so I did
00:30:05.440 find it
00:30:05.780 interesting
00:30:06.180 that that
00:30:06.940 sort of
00:30:07.300 self-preservation
00:30:08.180 mentality
00:30:08.760 seemed to
00:30:09.280 kick in
00:30:09.740 from the
00:30:10.440 RCMP
00:30:10.900 comms
00:30:11.380 officials
00:30:11.780 here
00:30:12.100 and then
00:30:12.520 they started
00:30:13.040 speculating
00:30:13.620 about what
00:30:14.020 his motivations
00:30:14.620 might have
00:30:15.100 been for
00:30:15.820 withdrawing
00:30:16.380 the money
00:30:16.700 it seemed
00:30:17.180 like to
00:30:17.540 deflect
00:30:17.800 the attention
00:30:18.320 off of
00:30:18.760 them
00:30:19.040 well it's
00:30:19.860 classic
00:30:20.460 deflect and
00:30:22.040 spin
00:30:22.400 isn't it
00:30:23.100 I'm not
00:30:24.400 going to
00:30:24.660 apologize
00:30:25.220 and certainly
00:30:26.000 don't you
00:30:27.260 have to
00:30:27.680 make any
00:30:28.340 apologies
00:30:29.800 for any
00:30:30.400 allegations
00:30:31.060 towards the
00:30:31.780 RCMP's
00:30:32.780 media relations
00:30:34.340 strategy
00:30:34.960 it's abysmal
00:30:35.900 and it's been
00:30:36.440 abysmal for
00:30:37.200 several decades
00:30:38.140 that has
00:30:39.420 clearly hasn't
00:30:40.560 changed
00:30:41.020 the RCMP
00:30:42.840 has always
00:30:43.720 been
00:30:44.120 economical
00:30:45.160 with
00:30:46.460 information
00:30:47.080 that's
00:30:47.500 just
00:30:47.880 the nature
00:30:49.640 of the
00:30:50.060 beast
00:30:50.440 trying to
00:30:51.800 pry
00:30:52.080 information
00:30:52.820 out of
00:30:53.200 them
00:30:53.360 even if
00:30:53.940 you're
00:30:54.160 within
00:30:54.480 even if
00:30:55.180 you're
00:30:55.420 working
00:30:55.700 with the
00:30:56.300 RCMP
00:30:56.880 on a
00:30:57.480 mutually
00:30:58.480 interested
00:30:59.280 project
00:30:59.820 it's still
00:31:00.820 hard to
00:31:01.280 get
00:31:01.440 information
00:31:02.120 everybody
00:31:02.980 is so
00:31:03.520 protective
00:31:04.140 of what
00:31:04.680 they view
00:31:05.640 as their
00:31:06.060 own
00:31:06.320 possession
00:31:06.980 or their
00:31:07.400 own
00:31:07.620 domain
00:31:08.140 or their
00:31:08.520 own
00:31:08.740 fiefdom
00:31:09.280 they don't
00:31:10.100 want to
00:31:10.340 let it
00:31:10.600 out
00:31:10.860 and you
00:31:12.240 see that
00:31:12.800 in cases
00:31:13.340 like this
00:31:13.980 where the
00:31:14.680 media and
00:31:15.340 the public
00:31:15.820 is clamoring
00:31:16.460 I mean
00:31:16.720 22 people
00:31:17.700 were murdered
00:31:18.300 by one
00:31:20.060 guy in a
00:31:21.380 single night
00:31:22.160 that demands
00:31:24.600 an explanation
00:31:25.420 and such as
00:31:26.540 we've had
00:31:27.040 from the
00:31:27.500 RCMP
00:31:28.100 in my view
00:31:29.100 is woefully
00:31:30.700 lacking
00:31:31.220 do you think
00:31:33.240 that in a
00:31:33.660 case like
00:31:34.200 this I mean
00:31:34.680 the old saying
00:31:35.280 that dead men
00:31:35.880 tell no tales
00:31:36.660 do you think
00:31:37.220 that the
00:31:38.160 questions will
00:31:38.920 ever truly
00:31:39.520 be answered
00:31:40.120 in a case
00:31:40.800 like this
00:31:41.300 that's the
00:31:41.660 problem
00:31:42.020 with these
00:31:42.400 so-called
00:31:42.820 lone wolf
00:31:43.520 sort of
00:31:44.160 attacks
00:31:44.600 is that
00:31:45.180 you aren't
00:31:45.560 looking at
00:31:46.080 a conspiracy
00:31:46.640 of sorts
00:31:47.380 where you
00:31:47.680 can start
00:31:48.140 finding
00:31:48.720 individual
00:31:49.180 people
00:31:49.640 that will
00:31:50.240 give you
00:31:50.900 pieces of
00:31:51.320 the puzzle
00:31:51.660 if it's
00:31:51.960 just one
00:31:52.340 person
00:31:52.740 sure maybe
00:31:53.320 you can
00:31:53.700 tell a bit
00:31:54.460 of a story
00:31:54.960 about that
00:31:55.380 person
00:31:55.800 and everyone
00:31:56.220 said they
00:31:56.680 might have
00:31:56.940 had issues
00:31:57.480 or red
00:31:57.900 flags
00:31:58.280 but do you
00:31:59.080 think you'll
00:31:59.440 ever be
00:31:59.820 able to
00:32:00.200 truly get
00:32:00.820 the full
00:32:01.340 picture in
00:32:02.020 something like
00:32:02.580 this
00:32:02.960 well I
00:32:04.200 think so
00:32:04.840 the RCMP
00:32:06.660 keep their
00:32:07.540 lips buttoned
00:32:08.540 for so long
00:32:09.920 there's going
00:32:11.040 to be a
00:32:12.020 number of
00:32:12.680 coroner's
00:32:13.260 inquest
00:32:13.700 coming up
00:32:14.380 into the
00:32:14.800 deaths of
00:32:15.240 22 people
00:32:16.120 not to
00:32:16.600 mention
00:32:16.840 Wordman
00:32:17.400 himself
00:32:17.960 the coroner
00:32:19.340 in Nova
00:32:19.840 Scotia
00:32:20.520 will be
00:32:21.540 looking very
00:32:22.420 specifically
00:32:23.580 at causation
00:32:25.140 factors
00:32:25.740 etc
00:32:26.200 and the
00:32:27.920 one thing
00:32:28.540 that is
00:32:29.700 very very
00:32:30.240 hard to
00:32:30.880 do
00:32:31.260 at that
00:32:32.180 point in
00:32:32.760 time
00:32:33.100 when you're
00:32:33.620 laying
00:32:34.280 everything
00:32:34.840 bare in
00:32:35.300 a coroner's
00:32:35.920 inquest
00:32:36.420 is to
00:32:37.120 try and
00:32:37.580 hide
00:32:37.860 something
00:32:38.300 and
00:32:39.060 while I've
00:32:41.640 seen it
00:32:42.020 done in
00:32:42.420 the past
00:32:42.940 usually what
00:32:43.600 happens is
00:32:44.240 won't be
00:32:44.740 tied to
00:32:45.120 anybody who
00:32:45.720 tries to
00:32:46.460 hide something
00:32:47.480 from the
00:32:47.900 coroner
00:32:48.360 so just to
00:32:50.400 wrap up that
00:32:51.360 initial sort of
00:32:52.140 McLean story
00:32:52.820 here the RCMP
00:32:53.800 said that
00:32:55.080 it can confirm
00:32:56.080 that the RCMP
00:32:56.960 was not the
00:32:57.820 source of those
00:32:58.520 funds as
00:32:59.600 incorrectly
00:33:00.200 assumed in
00:33:00.940 recent media
00:33:01.620 articles unquote
00:33:02.560 so do you
00:33:03.020 think that
00:33:03.620 let me
00:33:05.620 ask the
00:33:06.320 question in
00:33:06.760 two ways
00:33:07.220 here for
00:33:07.560 starters do
00:33:08.120 you think
00:33:08.420 that you
00:33:08.980 know that's
00:33:09.420 that's it
00:33:09.820 that should
00:33:10.220 sort of end
00:33:10.760 it or the
00:33:11.900 other side
00:33:12.420 of that do
00:33:12.880 you think
00:33:13.280 that the
00:33:14.120 RCMP by
00:33:14.880 being so
00:33:15.340 unequivocal
00:33:16.020 and so
00:33:16.420 clear in
00:33:16.880 its terms
00:33:17.420 they're
00:33:17.900 basically
00:33:18.360 guaranteeing
00:33:19.120 there's
00:33:19.360 nothing to
00:33:19.780 hide they
00:33:20.160 have no
00:33:20.640 relationship
00:33:21.360 with this
00:33:21.820 guy
00:33:22.100 again I
00:33:24.680 harbor no
00:33:25.440 illusions about
00:33:26.420 the veracity
00:33:27.140 of anything
00:33:27.720 that's being
00:33:28.280 put forth in
00:33:29.100 public we
00:33:30.200 don't know
00:33:30.660 where the
00:33:31.040 investigation is
00:33:32.140 going we
00:33:32.720 don't know
00:33:33.340 if the
00:33:34.860 police are
00:33:35.420 trying to put
00:33:36.000 out a red
00:33:36.600 herring for
00:33:37.260 whatever reason
00:33:38.100 to try and
00:33:38.820 deflect attention
00:33:39.800 from something
00:33:40.640 we just don't
00:33:41.800 know and
00:33:42.820 and as I
00:33:43.960 say it's all
00:33:45.080 speculation it's
00:33:46.240 wild speculation
00:33:47.260 and perhaps
00:33:48.880 some of it's
00:33:49.560 even educated
00:33:50.380 speculation but
00:33:51.480 it's still
00:33:51.880 speculation
00:33:52.580 Andrew
00:33:53.000 I think that's
00:33:54.660 a great
00:33:55.100 distinction
00:33:55.620 Leo Knight
00:33:56.460 True North
00:33:56.880 fellow and
00:33:57.540 former police
00:33:58.200 officer thank
00:33:58.840 you so much
00:33:59.520 for coming on
00:34:00.020 Leo really
00:34:00.440 appreciate it
00:34:01.160 you're very
00:34:01.920 welcome even
00:34:02.560 though it's
00:34:02.960 early
00:34:03.260 yeah that's
00:34:05.320 the Leo's
00:34:05.940 out on the
00:34:06.240 west coast so
00:34:06.820 he's doing us
00:34:07.340 a real courtesy
00:34:08.120 by joining us
00:34:08.800 at this time
00:34:09.260 thanks again
00:34:09.800 all right take
00:34:10.740 care you know
00:34:11.720 I will say you
00:34:12.320 can kind of see
00:34:13.140 how conspiracy
00:34:14.120 theories take
00:34:14.960 hold because
00:34:15.540 when I first
00:34:16.080 read that
00:34:16.800 McLean story
00:34:17.540 you know the
00:34:17.980 first thing that
00:34:18.720 jumped out at
00:34:19.160 me is unnamed
00:34:20.000 source unnamed
00:34:20.720 source unnamed
00:34:21.380 source in
00:34:21.780 banking unnamed
00:34:22.480 source in
00:34:22.920 law enforcement
00:34:23.560 no one with
00:34:24.820 a connection to
00:34:25.480 the case so
00:34:26.120 it was purely
00:34:27.160 based on well
00:34:28.620 police would pay
00:34:29.700 someone this way
00:34:30.520 the guy wouldn't
00:34:31.440 have access to
00:34:32.160 the Brinks
00:34:32.500 Brinks banking 1.00
00:34:33.220 unless it was
00:34:34.540 coming through
00:34:35.000 this and and
00:34:36.440 that was all
00:34:36.960 fine but then
00:34:38.080 you you read
00:34:39.100 the other side
00:34:39.740 and it's like
00:34:40.000 well hang on
00:34:40.640 for starters what
00:34:41.600 would he have
00:34:42.060 had that was so
00:34:42.920 valuable that's
00:34:43.840 the the big
00:34:44.580 thing what
00:34:44.960 information would
00:34:45.560 this guy have
00:34:45.960 had that was
00:34:46.360 worth half a
00:34:46.900 million dollars and
00:34:47.620 as Leo said
00:34:48.300 you know there
00:34:49.200 wasn't really
00:34:49.640 anything that has
00:34:50.340 come out so
00:34:50.960 far that would
00:34:52.020 suggest this guy
00:34:52.760 was anything other
00:34:53.400 than small time
00:34:54.200 if he was
00:34:55.180 connected with the
00:34:56.320 crime world at
00:34:57.080 all I mean
00:34:57.940 five hundred
00:34:58.420 thousand dollars
00:34:59.060 that would be
00:34:59.540 like terrorism
00:35:00.260 levels of
00:35:01.340 information this
00:35:02.780 guy again still
00:35:04.560 we don't know a
00:35:05.500 lot but this guy
00:35:06.300 didn't seem to
00:35:06.920 have any ties there
00:35:07.800 so you know but
00:35:09.920 but at the same
00:35:10.420 time you're like
00:35:10.940 okay something is
00:35:12.000 odd there something
00:35:13.060 doesn't add up and
00:35:14.140 I found it
00:35:14.580 interesting that the
00:35:15.840 police who I
00:35:16.440 mentioned earlier
00:35:17.000 are always so
00:35:17.620 tight-lipped and
00:35:18.280 they never want to
00:35:18.820 talk about anything
00:35:19.500 they never want to
00:35:20.140 speculate as to
00:35:20.940 motive when they're
00:35:22.140 facing criticisms and
00:35:23.640 scrutiny they're like
00:35:24.360 oh maybe he was
00:35:25.200 doing this and that
00:35:26.600 was that story that
00:35:27.460 you know he was just
00:35:28.300 concerned about what
00:35:29.440 the banking industry
00:35:30.220 would do with his
00:35:30.840 money with a
00:35:31.760 pandemic so he
00:35:32.520 decided to withdraw a
00:35:34.060 significant amount of
00:35:34.920 cash and the RCMP
00:35:35.880 said yeah we knew
00:35:36.600 about that that was
00:35:37.360 early on and then it
00:35:39.100 raises the question
00:35:39.720 okay if you knew
00:35:40.340 about it why didn't
00:35:41.740 you talk about it
00:35:42.620 why is it the media
00:35:43.640 that's uncovering
00:35:44.480 these details rather
00:35:45.780 than the people that
00:35:46.540 are supposed to be
00:35:47.240 briefing the public
00:35:48.080 and briefing the
00:35:48.780 media on these
00:35:50.120 details we've got to
00:35:51.180 take a break here when
00:35:51.920 we come back we'll
00:35:52.520 close things out here
00:35:53.360 on the Andrew
00:35:53.920 Lawton show stay
00:35:54.800 tuned you're tuned in
00:35:57.680 to the Andrew Lawton
00:35:58.900 show
00:35:59.260 never doubt that the
00:36:05.960 old boys club the
00:36:07.360 old cronies club can
00:36:08.640 do more than anyone
00:36:09.840 else in the world could
00:36:10.840 ever do in this case
00:36:11.900 a story in Black
00:36:12.960 Locks reporter
00:36:13.660 SNC Lavelland wins
00:36:15.120 6.8 million dollar
00:36:17.060 contracts despite
00:36:18.500 corruption despite
00:36:19.800 bribery despite
00:36:20.840 illegal activity
00:36:21.820 despite all of
00:36:23.140 these things despite
00:36:24.040 being in among the
00:36:25.960 most corrupt or
00:36:27.320 making Canada among
00:36:28.340 the most corrupt
00:36:28.940 nations in the world
00:36:30.480 so much so that the
00:36:31.720 world bank was even
00:36:32.740 like you know we'll
00:36:33.720 lend money to you
00:36:34.520 know African
00:36:34.900 dictatorships we don't
00:36:36.000 like this SNC
00:36:36.800 Lavelland thing they
00:36:38.340 are still getting
00:36:39.640 federal contracts the
00:36:40.840 country company agreed
00:36:41.760 to pay 1.9 million
00:36:43.200 dollars in fines under
00:36:44.360 the competition act
00:36:45.360 for rigging bids
00:36:47.160 on December 18th of
00:36:50.120 last year pleaded
00:36:50.860 guilty to fraud and
00:36:52.400 was fined 280 million
00:36:53.940 admitted that it paid
00:36:55.500 close to 50 million
00:36:56.580 dollars in bribes to
00:36:58.060 the son of Muammar
00:36:59.620 Gaddafi to win
00:37:00.400 construction contracts
00:37:01.480 and since then SNC
00:37:03.180 Lavelland has still
00:37:04.240 received almost 7
00:37:06.080 million dollar in
00:37:07.160 federal contracts
00:37:08.220 including one contract
00:37:09.780 that was awarded
00:37:10.880 according to the story
00:37:11.880 the day it admitted
00:37:13.040 to fraud so this is
00:37:15.100 now a company that
00:37:16.640 is still profiting
00:37:18.360 still profiting
00:37:19.460 despite its illegal
00:37:21.140 activity and you know
00:37:22.420 again when Justin
00:37:23.160 Trudeau says well you
00:37:24.020 know Quebec jobs are
00:37:25.100 more important than
00:37:26.240 you know standing up
00:37:27.540 for against corruption
00:37:28.860 and standing up for
00:37:29.800 the rule of law and
00:37:30.580 all of that you know
00:37:32.100 it's a very low bar if
00:37:33.900 we were to say okay
00:37:34.620 SNC Lavelland you have
00:37:35.960 surrendered your right
00:37:37.220 to do business with the
00:37:38.040 government we can't
00:37:38.760 shut you down if other
00:37:39.620 people want to trust
00:37:40.380 you with their money
00:37:40.860 that's fine but the
00:37:42.180 Canadian government is
00:37:43.040 not going to give
00:37:43.740 taxpayer money to you
00:37:45.060 and that was apparently
00:37:46.100 too much because oh
00:37:47.420 it's all about jobs and
00:37:48.560 it's interesting that you
00:37:49.520 know I'm all for economic
00:37:50.520 growth and development I
00:37:51.600 am truly I like jobs I
00:37:53.440 like robust economies but
00:37:55.160 you have to have a level
00:37:56.340 of integrity if you're
00:37:57.940 going to have any
00:37:58.720 credibility on other
00:37:59.840 things that you try to
00:38:00.820 do especially on human
00:38:02.280 rights grounds so
00:38:03.440 Justin Trudeau wants to
00:38:04.460 be the world's policeman he
00:38:05.700 wants to go around the
00:38:06.580 world and you know extol
00:38:08.100 Canadian values and all
00:38:09.320 of that stuff and impose
00:38:10.380 Canadian values even when
00:38:11.660 they're not wanted and a
00:38:13.000 load of good that did at
00:38:13.760 the United Nations by the
00:38:14.820 way meanwhile he's turning a
00:38:16.860 blind eye to a company
00:38:17.820 that's been putting tens of
00:38:19.320 million dollars into a
00:38:20.560 dictator's pockets the the
00:38:21.980 Gaddafi son the Gaddafi 0.99
00:38:24.480 son the Gaddafi regime the
00:38:25.940 Gaddafi family so I would 1.00
00:38:27.900 say yeah maybe it's time we
00:38:29.540 shut the book on SNC
00:38:31.380 Lavelland and this is a
00:38:32.960 company like it will never go
00:38:34.940 away it's like the
00:38:35.640 bombardier of well I guess
00:38:37.500 bombardier is the bombardier
00:38:38.660 of Canada but it's it's
00:38:40.120 like the bombardier of
00:38:41.660 Canada in the sense that
00:38:43.100 it just is always going to
00:38:44.820 be on the receiving end of
00:38:46.460 government money but in
00:38:47.720 bombardier's case they're
00:38:48.780 not corrupt they're just
00:38:49.620 bad at business in SNC
00:38:50.900 Lavelland's case we're
00:38:52.180 talking about a grossly
00:38:54.000 criminal enterprise that is
00:38:56.840 still getting taxpayer money
00:38:59.060 we'll talk to you in a
00:38:59.920 couple of days folks my
00:39:00.780 thanks to all of you for
00:39:01.620 tuning in and to Leo
00:39:02.600 Knight for coming on the
00:39:03.480 show thank you god bless and
00:39:05.260 good day Canada
00:39:05.960 thanks for listening to the
00:39:07.360 Andrew Lawton show
00:39:08.240 support the program by
00:39:09.500 donating to true north at
00:39:10.780 www.tnc.news
00:39:13.700 home world
00:39:19.000 we'll be
00:39:21.800 we'll be
00:39:23.580 we'll be