Juno News - June 22, 2020


The Art of Self-Cancelling


Episode Stats

Length

39 minutes

Words per Minute

175.51193

Word Count

6,914

Sentence Count

272

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

12


Summary

Ben Mulroney is stepping down from the anchor chair at CTV's ETalk to make room for a Black or Indigenous anchor to replace him. He says he still loves his wife and isn't speaking for her, but it's not his place to speak for her.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's most irreverent talk show. This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.680 Coming up, more casualties in the cancel wars. Was the Nova Scotia killer an RCMP agent and SNC-Lavalin still getting government money?
00:00:25.000 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:30.000 Hey everyone, welcome to another edition of the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:00:35.440 You're listening to Canada's most irreverent talk show here on True North.
00:00:40.020 Another Monday, another week, and another time where the cancel wars are continuing.
00:00:45.080 Yeah, I guess we'll have to devote a little bit of every show now until this current goes away to talking about the people who have lost their job since the last show.
00:00:54.080 And in particular, you might not be eager to stand up and defend Ben Mulroney, who I know is not the most unifying figure.
00:01:02.260 He's like the Nickelback of entertainment television.
00:01:04.840 But there is an interesting thing that's happened here.
00:01:07.480 And this is just coming moments before I started recording the show here.
00:01:10.940 Ben Mulroney is stepping aside from the anchor chair at CTV's eTalk because he wants to, in his words,
00:01:19.720 make space for a black or indigenous or person of color anchor to replace him.
00:01:26.200 So he's not even been canceled for doing anything.
00:01:28.780 He didn't say anything.
00:01:29.520 But he's just deciding to trade in his white privilege, which he acknowledges has contributed to him having the career that he's had and stepping aside.
00:01:37.380 And this is, whether it's connected or not, it's something he did while invoking the name of his wife, Jessica Mulroney,
00:01:43.940 who I don't know if it was last week or two weeks ago, was canceled for not being sufficiently woke in the wake of Black Lives Matter protests.
00:01:52.060 She wasn't even racist.
00:01:53.180 She didn't say anything.
00:01:54.000 She didn't do anything.
00:01:55.280 But a black blogger had criticized Jessica Mulroney for not being as excited as every other celebrity was about Black Lives Matter and not, you know, sharing her excitement enough.
00:02:06.120 So then that ended up being a back and forth that, again, initially just looked like a petty squabble,
00:02:11.860 the kind that you'd expect from an entertainment TV personality and a lifestyle blogger.
00:02:16.480 But that petty squabble in 2020 is evidence of racism.
00:02:20.960 And then Jessica Mulroney has now lost pretty much everything.
00:02:24.300 She's gotten her show, I Do Redo, canceled.
00:02:27.420 She's gotten a lot of endorsements, even a charity that she founded.
00:02:32.760 She's basically had to take a step back from and all over nothing.
00:02:37.460 I mean, this is someone who's literally been rubbing elbows and shoulders in the society circuit for years.
00:02:43.500 She probably checks off all of the diversity boxes as far as what she believes and what she thinks.
00:02:48.900 But now she's just a white privilege and she's got to go.
00:02:52.460 So Ben Mulroney, who says he still loves his wife and isn't speaking for her, is now stepping aside on his own.
00:02:59.460 Let me just roll the video that he did for Your Morning on CTV.
00:03:03.380 I want to take a moment to speak to you about the situation surrounding my wife, Jessica, and the next steps I will be taking with Bell Media.
00:03:10.920 I love my wife.
00:03:13.040 However, it is not my place to speak for her.
00:03:15.360 And today, together, we are committed to doing the work to both learn and understand more about anti-black racism,
00:03:21.060 as well as learn and understand more about our blind spots.
00:03:24.760 So what does this mean for me?
00:03:26.500 Well, it means acknowledging here today that my privilege has benefited me greatly.
00:03:31.580 And while I have certainly worked hard to build my career,
00:03:34.640 I know that systemic racism and injustice helps people like me and harms those who aren't like me,
00:03:40.520 often in ways that are invisible to us.
00:03:43.720 This needs to change.
00:03:45.800 Last Saturday, I watched on CTV as my colleagues led a national conversation about how we can take action against systemic racism.
00:03:52.900 And that conversation showed me more than ever, we need more black voices, more indigenous voices,
00:03:58.280 more people of color in the media, as well as every other profession.
00:04:02.020 And that is why I have decided to immediately step away from my role as anchor at eTalk to create space for a new perspective and a new voice.
00:04:11.780 It is my hope that that new anchor is black, indigenous, or a person of color,
00:04:15.940 and they can use this important platform to inspire, to lead, and to make change.
00:04:20.920 I am so proud of everyone involved with eTalk and indeed CTV.
00:04:25.400 And I know they will continue to demonstrate the excellence that has made that show and this network number one.
00:04:31.540 And while I am no longer anchoring eTalk, I will continue to contribute to the show,
00:04:35.920 hosting red carpets, and taking on other special projects here at Bell Media.
00:04:39.760 Of course, I look forward to bringing you the news every day here at Your Morning,
00:04:43.300 alongside my amazing colleagues, Anne-Marie, Lindsay, and Kelsey.
00:04:46.780 So that's the plan. Thank you for your words of kindness, your support,
00:04:52.260 and most importantly, holding us all, including me, accountable.
00:04:56.160 This is the television equivalent of bending the knee even when you've done absolutely nothing wrong.
00:05:03.600 And by the way, if Ben Mulroney thinks that this is a way he can make his contribution to the blow against racism,
00:05:08.560 then fine. I'm not going to fault him for that. He's made a decision.
00:05:12.380 There's no evidence that I've seen that suggests he's been forced out in any way.
00:05:17.000 He's just deciding that he's got too much white privilege.
00:05:20.020 He needs to trade some in and get a bit of credibility in the anti-racism fight.
00:05:24.980 Okay, fine.
00:05:26.080 Now, I don't know whether I'm more bothered by just this sheer absurdity of this exercise,
00:05:32.680 or by the fact that he hasn't really done all that much.
00:05:37.680 This is from the accompanying statement that CTV put out,
00:05:40.640 and Ben kind of indicated this in his thing.
00:05:42.720 He said, the statement says,
00:05:44.380 In addition to his ongoing role as co-host of Your Morning,
00:05:47.780 Mulroney will continue to contribute to eTalk on special assignments,
00:05:51.900 including the red carpet events like the Oscars that have helped make eTalk the leader in Canadian entertainment news.
00:05:57.500 He will also develop and produce projects for Bell Media Studios.
00:06:01.580 So he's got like nine jobs at Bell Media,
00:06:04.320 and it sounds like he's given up basically all but eight of the nine jobs.
00:06:08.780 So he's going to leave eTalk, which I don't even know how many people watch,
00:06:13.320 but he's going to keep co-hosting the morning show.
00:06:15.220 He's going to keep doing the Oscars.
00:06:16.540 He's going to keep putting projects through.
00:06:18.500 So it's not even like his, you know,
00:06:20.420 I'm stepping back so we can make space for black indigenous people of color
00:06:24.140 is even really done with all that gusto.
00:06:26.780 Why not say, you know, I really think we need a Canadian indigenous red carpet reporter.
00:06:31.580 You know, I think we need a Canadian indigenous co-host of Your Morning.
00:06:35.200 So it's not even like he's committing to the exercise that he's claiming he is.
00:06:40.480 And again, you may think I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here
00:06:43.660 because my initial point is that I don't think he has to do any of this.
00:06:47.560 But I will say if you're going to do it, at least do it.
00:06:50.400 If you're going to do this commitment thing,
00:06:52.740 go the full Monty, do the full Monty,
00:06:54.880 go as far as you can with it and say,
00:06:56.920 yeah, you know what?
00:06:58.240 I'm giving up all my money.
00:06:59.500 I was the beneficiary of privilege.
00:07:01.500 I shouldn't have this.
00:07:02.480 I'm giving up my career.
00:07:03.480 I was the beneficiary of privilege.
00:07:05.560 You know, I will not deny and do not deny
00:07:08.400 and don't think anyone else should deny that racism exists.
00:07:11.200 And I also will say,
00:07:12.660 and this is to the point that we talked about last week
00:07:15.200 with Hal McLeod from, or Hal Johnson from Body Break,
00:07:18.980 him sharing about how racism was responsible
00:07:22.420 for him getting passed over for opportunities.
00:07:24.540 I realize that there are a lot of people in media
00:07:27.400 who have been elevated to positions,
00:07:30.560 not because of their race necessarily,
00:07:33.240 but who certainly people on the minority side of things
00:07:36.100 who have been turned down for jobs because of racism.
00:07:38.380 I don't deny that's happened.
00:07:40.460 But to say that if you are successful and you are white,
00:07:45.680 you only got there because of your race is offensive.
00:07:49.380 And that's what's happening here
00:07:50.760 is that people are being told
00:07:52.120 and people are believing and internalizing
00:07:54.400 that the white privilege is so powerful
00:07:56.780 that they didn't have to work hard.
00:07:58.960 Look, I know that a lot of people in media
00:08:00.860 who are black and white and other races and cultures
00:08:04.820 have had to work very hard to get where they had to go.
00:08:08.180 Some people work harder.
00:08:09.780 You know, I would say that Ben Mulroney
00:08:11.580 probably benefited more from having the name Mulroney
00:08:15.400 than he did from being white.
00:08:17.940 Jessica Mulroney probably benefited more
00:08:20.280 from taking on the name Mulroney
00:08:22.140 than she did from being white.
00:08:25.060 Media in Canada is a very insular bubble.
00:08:28.280 Media is hereditary.
00:08:29.560 It's in your genetics in this country
00:08:31.500 where the sons and grandchildren of people
00:08:34.440 tend to rise up well.
00:08:36.300 Other people who aren't part of that in crowd,
00:08:38.180 who aren't part of those society groups,
00:08:40.020 don't do as well,
00:08:41.020 especially in Toronto and especially in television.
00:08:43.600 So there is a privilege that...
00:08:45.920 What about Mulroney privilege?
00:08:47.240 I mean, Mulroney privilege is powerful
00:08:49.040 and more powerful than white privilege.
00:08:51.080 And that's not what's being spoken about.
00:08:53.620 The point is that if you start talking
00:08:55.620 about a level playing field,
00:08:57.220 you're going to reveal all of these contradictions
00:08:59.960 which make it impossible,
00:09:03.160 absolutely impossible,
00:09:04.400 to find a way forward
00:09:06.040 that will give that equality of outcome
00:09:08.240 that so many people seem to want.
00:09:10.680 That equality of outcome
00:09:11.680 that you cannot manufacture,
00:09:13.260 that you cannot manipulate into happening
00:09:15.020 because decision-making, success,
00:09:17.660 all of these things are a lot more complex
00:09:20.260 than a lot of the critics right now
00:09:22.500 are making them out to be.
00:09:24.560 And again, suppose that you have...
00:09:26.580 And I don't want to name names here,
00:09:28.280 but suppose that you have
00:09:29.200 a very successful person of color
00:09:31.360 who's in media in Canada.
00:09:33.020 Their son or daughter
00:09:34.260 is going to have a better shot at success
00:09:38.200 than someone who happens to be white
00:09:40.940 who's not connected.
00:09:42.020 So there's a form of familial privilege right there
00:09:46.300 that is not racial,
00:09:48.060 that is not cultural,
00:09:49.060 that is not ethnic,
00:09:49.900 that is none of those things.
00:09:52.000 And, you know, education,
00:09:53.880 a lot of where you've come from,
00:09:56.660 I mean, if you're not from Toronto,
00:09:58.580 the idea that you could just break
00:10:00.640 into the Toronto media bubble
00:10:02.380 is not a given at all.
00:10:04.220 There are people that are born there
00:10:05.840 that are from that city
00:10:06.680 that are going to be a lot more connected
00:10:08.380 to those groups and to those crowds.
00:10:10.600 That's always been the way it is.
00:10:12.020 And again, that doesn't make it right.
00:10:13.480 I'm not saying it's right or wrong.
00:10:15.020 I'm not passing a moral judgment here.
00:10:17.140 But the idea that you can distill privilege down
00:10:19.660 solely to race,
00:10:21.280 which is what a lot of people are doing,
00:10:23.000 to such an extent
00:10:24.140 that people who have had success
00:10:26.240 who are white
00:10:27.020 are no longer able to partake in that
00:10:29.700 in society.
00:10:30.700 It's that what a lot of the protesters want,
00:10:32.980 and I'm not talking about people
00:10:33.820 that are talking about genuine equality
00:10:35.540 and people that are talking about police reform
00:10:38.520 and a lot of these sensible things,
00:10:40.260 but the people that are saying
00:10:41.640 we have to tear down white privilege,
00:10:43.740 they are trying to craft a vision of this
00:10:46.720 and craft a narrative of this
00:10:48.060 that suggests that no white person
00:10:50.060 could ever have been capable of anything.
00:10:52.320 And in a lot of ways,
00:10:53.340 they seem to want to replace
00:10:54.620 what they identify as one problem
00:10:56.560 with another problem.
00:10:58.620 So when Ben Mulroney gets up and says,
00:11:00.520 you know what, I'm going to step down
00:11:01.940 so that I can put a black,
00:11:03.100 indigenous person of color here,
00:11:04.640 he's saying that we need to put someone
00:11:06.820 into that position solely because of their race.
00:11:10.760 And we've heard countless stories
00:11:13.220 of affirmative action programs,
00:11:14.960 especially in academia,
00:11:15.980 that have caused a reverse racism effect.
00:11:20.100 You have that job posting we talked about last week
00:11:22.660 from CBC Kids a while ago,
00:11:24.620 which was saying they wanted any race but Caucasian.
00:11:27.440 The diversity trend has been a very powerful one
00:11:31.260 for quite a while to such a point that,
00:11:33.680 yeah, there are certainly people
00:11:35.040 that have been turned down from jobs
00:11:37.340 because they're white.
00:11:39.180 And a lot of people don't want to have these dialogues
00:11:41.760 because they say, well, they're different.
00:11:43.180 I mean, in one case,
00:11:44.020 you're trying to correct a problem.
00:11:45.880 And in the other case, it is the problem itself.
00:11:48.220 But if you try to solve one thing
00:11:50.500 with basically the identical problem in reverse,
00:11:53.360 you're not really doing all that much.
00:11:55.540 And this is where you have to look at
00:11:56.980 how no one is going to end up
00:11:59.080 in this situation particularly well.
00:12:01.600 The industries that we're trying to reform here
00:12:03.940 are not edified by this.
00:12:05.920 You've just got people like Ben Mulroney
00:12:07.700 that get to, I can't really think
00:12:09.520 of any other explanation for it,
00:12:10.960 but say they're claiming some credibility
00:12:12.480 in the social justice circuit by saying,
00:12:15.340 you know, I've got to make room.
00:12:17.780 And in a lot of ways, it's that,
00:12:19.500 what's that narrative you hear,
00:12:20.880 the white savior narrative?
00:12:22.200 You know, I'm, oh, I'm being an ally,
00:12:24.460 but you're not actually doing anything.
00:12:25.720 You just take a little bit less off your plate
00:12:27.700 and you don't lose any of the really prestigious parts of it
00:12:30.940 because there are still people
00:12:32.480 that are being canceled,
00:12:34.280 that are having their jobs lost,
00:12:35.680 that are not getting to make the decision
00:12:37.440 like Ben Mulroney did
00:12:39.320 for reasons that have absolutely nothing
00:12:41.820 to do with racism.
00:12:44.280 I want to turn to British Columbia here
00:12:46.440 where Michael Korenberg resigned from his position
00:12:49.940 as chair and board member
00:12:51.220 at the University of British Columbia
00:12:53.140 on the board of governors
00:12:54.320 for being, as CBC says, racist.
00:12:58.180 He liked racist and far-right comments on Twitter.
00:13:01.440 Daily Hive as well did a story.
00:13:03.440 UBC board of governors chair resigns
00:13:05.480 after liking racist pro-Trump tweets.
00:13:08.480 Now, I say a lot of things about CBC
00:13:10.680 as I know a lot of you
00:13:11.740 who tune into this show do as well.
00:13:14.300 This is beyond the pale.
00:13:16.720 They've said that he likes racist
00:13:18.640 and far-right comments on Twitter.
00:13:20.360 They repeated in the lead line,
00:13:21.760 the chair of the University of British Columbia's
00:13:25.000 board of governors has resigned
00:13:26.320 after liking racist and conspiracy theory posts
00:13:29.480 on Twitter, including tweets disparaging
00:13:31.820 the Black Lives Matter movement.
00:13:34.200 Now, what did he like that was so racist,
00:13:36.680 you might ask?
00:13:37.380 Well, that's a very good question,
00:13:38.540 person who asked that.
00:13:39.780 The story doesn't actually say.
00:13:41.680 The story does not identify any racism at all.
00:13:46.320 The story just takes it for granted
00:13:48.240 and expects you to take for granted
00:13:49.700 that this guy was racist
00:13:51.120 for liking racist things on Twitter.
00:13:53.360 And then you look at the detail.
00:13:55.120 He posted or he liked photos
00:13:57.900 and tweets and stuff
00:13:59.360 that included praise for Donald Trump,
00:14:02.300 another tweet that referenced protesters
00:14:04.340 as violent looters,
00:14:05.900 and a conspiracy theory
00:14:07.240 that compared Black Lives Matter protests
00:14:09.040 to Adolf Hitler's paramilitary tactics.
00:14:11.760 Now, he didn't say this.
00:14:13.080 He didn't do anything about this.
00:14:14.440 He liked tweets that made these claims.
00:14:17.300 He liked tweets.
00:14:18.400 That was his crime.
00:14:19.700 And what happened is
00:14:21.120 this is enough to get a group called
00:14:23.340 UBC Students Against Bigotry
00:14:26.300 to start harassing and campaigning.
00:14:29.580 And eventually he resigns.
00:14:31.560 I say fired because when you resign
00:14:33.580 in the midst of a mob,
00:14:34.600 it's not like you're actually
00:14:35.700 just doing the Ben Mulroney thing
00:14:37.200 and saying,
00:14:37.720 I'm just going to take a step back.
00:14:39.260 You're done.
00:14:40.420 Now, he gave a statement
00:14:41.860 that I thought was absolutely abysmal
00:14:43.840 and embarrassing.
00:14:45.240 And in this statement,
00:14:46.140 he basically seeds everything
00:14:48.740 that the people were saying about him.
00:14:51.220 He says,
00:14:51.820 there's nothing he's cared more about
00:14:53.560 than the well-being of students,
00:14:55.020 faculty, and staff,
00:14:56.040 the pursuit of the university's academic mission,
00:14:58.300 and the betterment of society.
00:15:00.200 It was a responsibility I took seriously,
00:15:02.660 but one I did not uphold recently.
00:15:05.120 He says,
00:15:05.780 Well, I do not support violence of any kind.
00:15:08.540 I understand how my actions created questions
00:15:10.760 about who I am and what I believe in.
00:15:13.180 To be clear,
00:15:13.940 I support Black Lives Matter
00:15:15.540 and I support the deracialization
00:15:17.480 of our educational institutions
00:15:19.160 and our country.
00:15:20.100 But I accept that in liking
00:15:21.900 these social media posts,
00:15:23.540 I damaged what I support
00:15:25.040 and that I hurt people.
00:15:26.600 I wholeheartedly apologize to them,
00:15:28.520 particularly to the students,
00:15:30.140 faculty, and staff of UBC.
00:15:32.340 He says racism is real
00:15:33.540 and he wants to be a part of the solution.
00:15:35.060 So this is not a guy
00:15:36.640 whose full-time job and livelihood
00:15:38.300 was being the chair of the board.
00:15:39.800 Like all of these boards,
00:15:40.800 he's got another job, another career,
00:15:42.520 and I think it was probably easy
00:15:44.040 for him to walk back.
00:15:46.720 But when you look at the response to this,
00:15:49.440 this is where I go down the road
00:15:51.000 of thinking this isn't just a resignation
00:15:53.160 that's entirely in his hands.
00:15:55.060 Because the university threw him
00:15:56.660 under the bus right away.
00:15:58.140 The government threw him under the bus.
00:16:00.260 The advanced education minister in BC
00:16:02.960 said that, you know,
00:16:04.560 government and UBC are deeply committed
00:16:06.560 to inclusion, justice, and equality for all.
00:16:10.220 The university gave what I thought
00:16:12.280 was a horrendous statement
00:16:13.760 saying that it's been deeply hurtful
00:16:17.200 to members of our community
00:16:18.480 and UBC has zero tolerance for racism
00:16:21.280 and recognizes that real harm
00:16:23.480 is created from both overt
00:16:25.040 and structural racism.
00:16:27.520 No one has said
00:16:28.620 what the racist part is though.
00:16:30.460 Is it racist that he likes Donald Trump
00:16:33.460 or liked a tweet
00:16:34.320 that was supporting Donald Trump?
00:16:36.120 Is it racist that he's critical
00:16:37.440 of Black Lives Matter?
00:16:38.900 Is it racist that he's critical
00:16:40.720 of protesters that are looting violently?
00:16:43.360 And I mean, again,
00:16:44.200 I'm going down the road they're doing.
00:16:45.580 He didn't actually say any of this.
00:16:48.040 Liking a tweet.
00:16:49.560 Liking a tweet is pretty much
00:16:51.220 the lowest bar imaginable.
00:16:53.700 So this is the epitome of thought crime
00:16:55.840 because what's being targeted here
00:16:57.420 is not what he said,
00:16:58.640 not what he did,
00:16:59.320 not what he stands for,
00:17:00.380 but a tweet that he might have
00:17:01.920 resonated with or supported
00:17:03.300 if that's even the case.
00:17:04.820 Some people just like tweets
00:17:06.060 to bookmark them.
00:17:07.300 He had said in an interview
00:17:08.360 with the student newspaper at UBC
00:17:10.800 that he didn't know
00:17:11.580 his Twitter account was public.
00:17:13.060 So, I mean, this is like
00:17:14.120 an OK Boomer moment
00:17:15.500 if ever there was one.
00:17:17.240 But he's absolutely said
00:17:19.900 and done nothing.
00:17:21.200 And now he's been,
00:17:22.320 he's lost this position.
00:17:23.780 He's been branded a racist.
00:17:25.480 And even CBC,
00:17:26.960 for whatever problems you might have,
00:17:28.980 should know better
00:17:30.120 than to be this irresponsible
00:17:31.840 as to just accept racism,
00:17:35.680 accept the premise,
00:17:36.880 put it in the headline,
00:17:37.840 put it in the lead
00:17:38.460 without articulating what it was.
00:17:40.660 And maybe they're parroting it
00:17:42.560 from the UBC student group,
00:17:44.980 Students Against Bigotry,
00:17:46.000 because they said
00:17:46.960 in one of their tweets
00:17:48.760 to tear down this guy,
00:17:50.520 does he support
00:17:51.600 the white supremacist
00:17:52.980 in the White House
00:17:54.120 and his calls for violence?
00:17:56.100 So to UBC students
00:17:57.880 against bigotry,
00:17:59.180 you're racist
00:17:59.840 if you support Donald Trump.
00:18:01.440 Well, I hate to break it to you,
00:18:02.640 but that's pretty much
00:18:03.320 half the United States of America
00:18:04.900 and a pretty good chunk
00:18:06.260 of Canadians as well
00:18:07.260 that supports the guy
00:18:08.260 who's the leader
00:18:08.880 of the free world.
00:18:09.760 So you can't say
00:18:10.760 that support for Donald Trump,
00:18:12.300 if this guy even supports Trump,
00:18:14.240 and I have no idea,
00:18:15.940 is tantamount to racism.
00:18:18.440 But the cancel wars,
00:18:19.880 the bar keeps getting
00:18:21.140 lower and lower and lower.
00:18:22.900 And a lot of people
00:18:23.620 are jumping up and down
00:18:24.600 on this guy saying,
00:18:25.760 well, he shouldn't have rolled over.
00:18:27.160 He shouldn't have apologized.
00:18:28.640 Let me tell you something.
00:18:29.640 If you have been
00:18:30.280 in the mob's crosshairs,
00:18:32.160 you would understand
00:18:33.460 that there is an entirely
00:18:35.200 reasonable proposition
00:18:36.340 that you think
00:18:37.120 this destruction of my life,
00:18:39.080 of my life's work,
00:18:39.900 of my reputation,
00:18:40.520 it's going to end
00:18:42.040 if I apologize and move on.
00:18:44.480 I understand
00:18:45.160 that thought process.
00:18:46.800 Now, it doesn't work.
00:18:47.920 As we see,
00:18:49.040 now they're jumping up and down
00:18:50.500 trying to get him cancelled
00:18:51.840 from every other board position
00:18:53.280 and every other job he has.
00:18:54.780 So it's not like it's successful.
00:18:57.000 But I get it.
00:18:57.880 And I'm not going to
00:18:58.660 accuse this guy of rolling over
00:19:00.880 even if he does set
00:19:02.940 the right side
00:19:05.500 of these cancel wars back a bit
00:19:07.260 by just giving in.
00:19:09.100 But now he goes down,
00:19:10.640 he's cemented.
00:19:11.400 When you Google his name,
00:19:12.840 you're going to see
00:19:13.900 the word racist.
00:19:15.340 And it's unchallenged,
00:19:16.560 it's unexplained,
00:19:17.440 but most people
00:19:18.340 aren't going to parse
00:19:19.000 that CBC story
00:19:20.140 and see,
00:19:20.720 okay, well, wait,
00:19:21.760 where is the racism?
00:19:22.980 And they don't describe it.
00:19:24.300 I've read through
00:19:24.820 the story three times.
00:19:25.800 They do not describe
00:19:26.660 what it is he said
00:19:27.740 that they identify as racist.
00:19:30.100 It's either support for Trump,
00:19:32.100 criticism of Black Lives Matter,
00:19:33.900 or criticism
00:19:35.420 of Black Lives Matter protesters.
00:19:37.500 Either way,
00:19:38.580 there is a case to be made
00:19:39.840 that you can make
00:19:40.400 any of those comments
00:19:41.240 without having
00:19:42.100 a racist bone in your body
00:19:43.520 and even have a leg
00:19:44.600 to stand on in doing so.
00:19:45.940 And it's not articulated.
00:19:47.900 And there's a huge danger
00:19:49.280 in this.
00:19:50.600 Same as far right.
00:19:52.600 Far right's another one.
00:19:53.700 CBC uses that in the headline.
00:19:55.620 What's far right?
00:19:56.720 I mean,
00:19:56.920 True North during
00:19:57.720 the last federal election
00:19:59.020 was called far right
00:20:00.160 by one news outlet
00:20:02.320 that I can't,
00:20:03.380 I won't tell you who it was,
00:20:04.320 but it rhymes
00:20:04.680 with Shmuffington Schmost.
00:20:06.140 And we actually challenged it.
00:20:08.280 Not because we care
00:20:09.200 what the Shmuffington Schmost,
00:20:10.960 I think that's what I called it,
00:20:11.900 thinks about us,
00:20:13.060 but because you cannot
00:20:14.300 let these things
00:20:15.720 that are to the writer
00:20:16.920 subtle,
00:20:18.200 but are not subtle
00:20:19.160 to the reader.
00:20:19.760 You cannot let them stand.
00:20:21.480 And we asked,
00:20:22.360 Hey,
00:20:22.640 why are you saying far right?
00:20:24.260 Give the explanation.
00:20:25.940 And they don't defend it.
00:20:27.160 They just quietly change it
00:20:28.480 because they know
00:20:29.820 that what they're trying to do
00:20:31.400 is they're trying to deny you
00:20:33.840 the right to define yourself
00:20:36.060 by using very loaded terms,
00:20:38.560 loaded terms
00:20:39.240 that really take down
00:20:40.980 your respect
00:20:41.700 in the eyes of a reader
00:20:42.680 that's not connected
00:20:43.500 with what you're doing.
00:20:45.180 And this is why
00:20:45.820 you need to push back against it.
00:20:47.560 Whether you're a Ben Mulroney,
00:20:49.280 a Michael Korenberg,
00:20:50.600 a True North,
00:20:51.300 whoever you are,
00:20:52.780 this culture
00:20:53.700 is not going to lose
00:20:56.360 if people don't push back against it.
00:20:59.140 We've got to take a break.
00:21:00.120 When we come back,
00:21:00.860 more of The Andrew Lawton Show
00:21:02.040 here on True North.
00:21:04.460 You're tuned in
00:21:05.620 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:21:09.880 We are back.
00:21:10.940 This is The Andrew Lawton Show
00:21:12.340 on True North.
00:21:13.620 And you may remember
00:21:14.320 we covered earlier on in the year
00:21:16.600 that horrific, horrific attack,
00:21:18.440 the most deadly mass shooting
00:21:19.800 in Canadian history
00:21:20.960 in and around
00:21:22.200 Portapique, Nova Scotia.
00:21:24.240 And so many questions
00:21:26.060 still from this.
00:21:27.200 I know that the gun control narrative
00:21:28.720 was one that became
00:21:29.700 very relevant
00:21:30.800 with the Liberals
00:21:31.980 ramming gun control legislation
00:21:34.120 that wouldn't have done anything
00:21:35.640 to stop this.
00:21:36.680 But now there are still
00:21:37.780 a lot of questions
00:21:38.520 about the motivation
00:21:39.820 behind this attack.
00:21:42.340 And if you believe
00:21:43.140 that understanding motivation
00:21:44.440 can help to prevent
00:21:45.320 future such attacks,
00:21:47.000 these questions are significant.
00:21:48.400 A McLean story,
00:21:50.260 the Nova Scotia shooter case
00:21:51.840 has hallmarks
00:21:52.540 of an undercover operation.
00:21:55.000 They have a bunch
00:21:56.080 of anonymous sources
00:21:57.060 in policing and banking
00:21:58.460 saying that
00:21:59.940 the fact that the killer
00:22:01.180 was able to withdraw
00:22:02.220 $475,000
00:22:03.960 in cash
00:22:05.120 from Brinks Banking
00:22:07.060 which does not at all
00:22:08.480 serve consumers directly
00:22:10.940 is typical
00:22:12.460 of how the RCMP
00:22:13.800 would pay informants
00:22:15.340 or agents.
00:22:16.060 Now there's a lot
00:22:16.580 of speculation
00:22:17.160 but they do lay out
00:22:19.140 some facts
00:22:19.760 of that type of banking
00:22:21.380 and that amount of money
00:22:22.620 that does make it
00:22:24.120 a little bit
00:22:24.720 of a curious transaction.
00:22:26.540 Of course then
00:22:27.140 in response to this
00:22:27.980 you have the RCMP
00:22:29.260 telling the Toronto Star
00:22:30.540 that fears about
00:22:32.140 the pandemic
00:22:32.780 were what made
00:22:34.240 the killer want to
00:22:35.140 take out all his money
00:22:36.200 and that was that.
00:22:37.740 It was no relationship
00:22:38.720 with the RCMP.
00:22:39.760 He wasn't an operative,
00:22:40.940 an agent,
00:22:41.500 an informant
00:22:42.360 or anything like that.
00:22:43.740 I want to make sense
00:22:44.660 of this.
00:22:45.200 Joining me now
00:22:45.840 is True North fellow
00:22:46.780 and former RCMP officer
00:22:48.420 Leo Knight.
00:22:49.500 Leo, good to talk to you sir.
00:22:50.560 Thanks for coming on today.
00:22:51.820 Good morning Andrew.
00:22:53.600 So when you saw
00:22:54.900 this initial McLean story
00:22:56.620 is your response
00:22:57.440 this is insane
00:22:58.320 or did it have
00:22:59.360 the ring of truth to you?
00:23:00.560 I think
00:23:02.380 and as I said
00:23:03.780 to you
00:23:04.300 and a couple
00:23:04.800 of other folks
00:23:05.540 at True North
00:23:06.280 I said it was
00:23:06.960 wild speculation.
00:23:08.820 I haven't changed
00:23:09.900 that opinion at all.
00:23:12.660 For example
00:23:13.780 he apparently
00:23:15.340 withdrew something
00:23:16.280 in the neighbourhood
00:23:16.880 of $435,000
00:23:18.920 in his brink withdrawal.
00:23:21.700 That's a substantial
00:23:22.680 amount of money
00:23:23.560 but in reality
00:23:25.020 it's not that much
00:23:26.760 in terms of overall volume.
00:23:28.620 You could easily
00:23:29.060 set it into a hockey bag
00:23:31.680 and it would weigh about
00:23:32.620 I don't know
00:23:33.180 11 pounds, 12 pounds
00:23:34.620 something in that neighbourhood.
00:23:36.400 So it's easily transportable.
00:23:38.240 That's sort of thing one.
00:23:40.880 Thing two
00:23:41.720 is we don't know
00:23:42.520 where the source
00:23:43.240 of the money was.
00:23:44.720 Did he cash in
00:23:46.780 some of his lucrative properties?
00:23:48.700 We know he had
00:23:49.440 almost $500,000
00:23:50.940 in RRSP savings.
00:23:53.740 Did he cash that in?
00:23:55.000 And we don't know
00:23:55.820 and the banking records
00:23:56.860 are just not open to us
00:23:58.460 to try and ascertain
00:24:00.660 any of those answers.
00:24:03.460 Finally
00:24:04.060 if it was a
00:24:05.640 situation
00:24:07.280 of a confidential informant
00:24:09.220 I would have expected
00:24:11.160 that information
00:24:12.220 might have come out
00:24:13.060 a whole lot sooner
00:24:14.220 than this.
00:24:15.540 There's no question
00:24:16.800 that
00:24:17.340 this guy had
00:24:20.480 as a friend
00:24:21.360 the so-called
00:24:22.800 shadowy guy
00:24:23.720 Peter Ellen Griffin
00:24:24.860 who was connected
00:24:26.100 to organized crime
00:24:27.240 and had done a stretch
00:24:28.100 of prison in Alberta
00:24:29.340 and Griffin was actually
00:24:31.820 the guy who cut
00:24:32.900 and provided
00:24:33.920 the decals
00:24:34.700 for the
00:24:35.380 official RCMP
00:24:37.640 look
00:24:38.180 on Workman's car
00:24:39.780 and there's no question
00:24:42.040 Griffin's as shady
00:24:43.860 as it gets
00:24:44.700 but
00:24:45.660 and here
00:24:46.540 I will insert
00:24:47.440 a huge but
00:24:48.600 for him to be getting
00:24:50.480 that kind of money
00:24:51.640 from the RCMP
00:24:52.660 he would have had
00:24:53.700 to have been
00:24:54.260 an integral
00:24:55.500 piece of the composition
00:24:58.040 in terms of being
00:24:59.300 a major player
00:25:00.320 as a confidential informant.
00:25:02.780 The Nova Scotia
00:25:03.680 Hells Angels chapter
00:25:05.940 such as it is
00:25:07.000 is still
00:25:09.060 in its fledgling stages.
00:25:11.500 It had a chapter
00:25:12.600 a number of years ago
00:25:13.580 back in the 90s
00:25:14.640 but that chapter closed
00:25:16.240 after a series
00:25:17.720 of
00:25:18.160 completely booted
00:25:20.420 unprofessional
00:25:21.380 murders.
00:25:23.440 The Quebec
00:25:24.000 Nomads chapter
00:25:26.240 took them over
00:25:27.080 and disbanded
00:25:28.020 the chapter
00:25:29.120 and took away
00:25:29.960 their patches
00:25:30.580 and that sort of thing.
00:25:32.180 What remains now
00:25:33.260 is actually
00:25:34.000 rising from the ashes
00:25:36.640 if you will
00:25:38.520 from a series
00:25:39.220 of puppet gangs
00:25:40.160 that were in place
00:25:41.200 to handle the drug dealing
00:25:42.580 and stuff like that.
00:25:44.640 But they're in no
00:25:45.980 way, shape,
00:25:48.160 or form
00:25:48.660 in the big leagues
00:25:49.660 the way the Quebec
00:25:51.180 Nomads
00:25:51.820 or the BC
00:25:52.780 chapters
00:25:53.820 of the
00:25:54.800 Hells Angels
00:25:55.540 or anything
00:25:56.220 along those lines.
00:25:57.440 They're
00:25:57.740 big players
00:25:59.820 who are trying
00:26:00.420 to get into
00:26:00.880 the big times.
00:26:01.840 So I can't see
00:26:02.740 the RCMP
00:26:03.560 paying that kind
00:26:04.680 of money
00:26:05.100 especially
00:26:06.260 in as small
00:26:07.040 a jurisdiction
00:26:07.740 as Nova Scotia
00:26:09.000 for a confidential
00:26:11.000 informant.
00:26:11.720 That's just my opinion.
00:26:13.180 I base that
00:26:14.020 on no
00:26:14.700 specific information
00:26:17.500 other than
00:26:18.060 my own speculation.
00:26:20.180 One of the things
00:26:21.220 that the McLean's article
00:26:22.400 did that I don't know
00:26:23.720 how exactly
00:26:24.680 I feel about it.
00:26:25.840 They have this paragraph
00:26:27.220 about the RCMP
00:26:28.260 operations manual
00:26:29.460 which they say
00:26:30.240 authorizes the police
00:26:31.560 to mislead
00:26:32.440 anyone and everyone
00:26:33.600 with the exception
00:26:34.280 of the courts
00:26:34.940 to conceal the identity
00:26:36.200 of confidential
00:26:36.960 informants.
00:26:37.680 So then
00:26:37.920 what that does
00:26:39.300 is when the RCMP
00:26:40.560 tells people
00:26:41.680 like they did
00:26:42.180 to the Toronto Star
00:26:42.940 that it had no
00:26:43.600 relationship
00:26:44.180 with Wartman
00:26:45.880 this paragraph
00:26:47.200 tends to make people
00:26:48.340 oh but well
00:26:48.900 you know
00:26:49.260 the manual says
00:26:50.220 they could lie
00:26:50.780 about that.
00:26:51.660 What's your take
00:26:52.240 on that aspect
00:26:53.220 of it?
00:26:53.740 I mean if they
00:26:54.240 were concealing
00:26:55.080 this
00:26:55.520 would they just
00:26:56.680 keep concealing
00:26:57.400 that?
00:26:58.680 Well they would
00:26:59.920 Andrew.
00:27:00.600 The part of
00:27:02.080 dealing with
00:27:02.580 a confidential
00:27:03.180 informant
00:27:04.060 is that
00:27:04.500 that person's
00:27:05.780 safety
00:27:06.140 is very
00:27:06.620 life
00:27:07.100 is entrusted
00:27:08.300 in your hands
00:27:09.200 and depends
00:27:09.860 upon you
00:27:10.480 to keep
00:27:11.080 to keep
00:27:11.940 a secret
00:27:12.440 as it were.
00:27:14.560 Reference
00:27:15.240 to that
00:27:15.720 particular
00:27:16.300 paragraph
00:27:16.840 that refers
00:27:17.660 more to
00:27:18.500 giving
00:27:20.580 an informant
00:27:22.480 or an agent
00:27:23.360 of the RCMP
00:27:24.280 a little bit
00:27:25.880 of carte blanche
00:27:26.700 to lie
00:27:27.920 to make
00:27:28.700 a dope deal
00:27:29.540 to buy
00:27:30.880 stolen property
00:27:31.840 or something
00:27:32.800 along those lines
00:27:33.920 to maintain
00:27:34.700 a cover
00:27:35.260 and it
00:27:36.300 really means
00:27:36.960 no more
00:27:37.380 than that.
00:27:39.140 How common
00:27:40.320 are
00:27:40.880 because they
00:27:41.600 say confidential
00:27:42.440 informants
00:27:43.180 and agents
00:27:44.120 so these
00:27:45.260 are two
00:27:45.580 different things
00:27:46.220 here.
00:27:46.480 What's the
00:27:46.940 difference
00:27:47.220 between them?
00:27:49.300 If you give
00:27:50.380 me information
00:27:51.340 relative to
00:27:52.880 something that's
00:27:53.500 going on
00:27:54.220 that I'm
00:27:54.960 interested in
00:27:55.860 that makes
00:27:56.600 you an
00:27:56.940 informant.
00:27:57.560 if you
00:27:58.420 offer to
00:27:59.480 introduce
00:28:00.440 me to
00:28:01.420 that
00:28:02.380 individual
00:28:03.040 as part
00:28:04.760 of a
00:28:05.040 UCO
00:28:05.560 or undercover
00:28:06.180 operation
00:28:07.120 that makes
00:28:08.060 you an
00:28:08.420 agent
00:28:08.780 because you're
00:28:09.460 doing something
00:28:10.320 specific.
00:28:11.940 You're taking
00:28:12.340 an action.
00:28:14.320 And the
00:28:14.880 information that
00:28:15.840 you provided
00:28:16.360 a few moments
00:28:17.160 ago about
00:28:17.720 just the
00:28:18.360 amount of
00:28:19.200 money that
00:28:19.640 would be at
00:28:20.040 stake there
00:28:20.640 that's still
00:28:22.100 the same
00:28:22.540 if he were
00:28:23.200 an agent
00:28:23.720 instead of
00:28:24.420 a confidential
00:28:25.120 informant
00:28:25.720 theoretically,
00:28:26.120 correct?
00:28:27.380 In theory
00:28:27.940 an agent
00:28:28.460 would make
00:28:28.920 more money
00:28:29.480 because he's
00:28:30.120 taking more
00:28:30.980 risks upon
00:28:32.800 his life.
00:28:33.340 But would we
00:28:33.740 be talking
00:28:34.160 about half
00:28:34.620 a million
00:28:34.960 dollars for
00:28:35.780 what we know
00:28:36.740 about the
00:28:37.220 circumstances
00:28:37.840 so far?
00:28:39.560 I don't
00:28:40.420 think so.
00:28:41.120 Certainly
00:28:41.420 not in
00:28:41.920 Nova Scotia.
00:28:43.200 The one
00:28:43.620 case I can
00:28:44.340 put to it
00:28:45.120 that's sort
00:28:45.760 of an
00:28:46.140 equivalent
00:28:46.640 involved an
00:28:47.500 agent who
00:28:48.160 is a
00:28:48.540 bouncer
00:28:48.920 in a
00:28:49.300 strip bar
00:28:49.920 working for
00:28:51.680 a Hell's
00:28:52.920 Angel
00:28:53.220 member
00:28:54.160 singular
00:28:54.980 specifically
00:28:56.720 and that
00:28:58.040 guy was
00:28:58.480 paid a
00:28:58.900 fraction
00:28:59.300 of that
00:28:59.880 amount
00:29:00.260 of money.
00:29:01.120 Now,
00:29:01.520 granted,
00:29:01.920 that was
00:29:02.100 a few
00:29:02.400 years ago
00:29:02.980 but still
00:29:03.660 I think
00:29:04.260 it shows
00:29:04.720 that in
00:29:05.420 the big
00:29:06.700 leagues of
00:29:07.360 Ontario
00:29:08.000 or British
00:29:08.820 Columbia
00:29:09.400 or Quebec
00:29:11.020 it's probably
00:29:12.520 worth something.
00:29:14.700 In the
00:29:15.420 small town
00:29:16.380 I don't want
00:29:18.600 to say
00:29:18.880 bush league
00:29:19.480 but say
00:29:19.920 the
00:29:20.640 environic
00:29:22.500 starting
00:29:23.060 up
00:29:23.540 of
00:29:24.540 Hell's
00:29:24.980 Angels
00:29:25.260 chapter
00:29:25.780 in
00:29:26.300 Nova
00:29:26.580 Scotia
00:29:27.200 certainly
00:29:28.100 not worth
00:29:28.600 that
00:29:28.780 kind
00:29:29.000 of
00:29:29.120 money.
00:29:30.520 With all
00:29:31.260 due
00:29:31.500 respect
00:29:31.840 to your
00:29:32.180 former
00:29:32.480 colleagues
00:29:33.040 at the
00:29:33.500 RCMP
00:29:34.020 one
00:29:34.620 frustration
00:29:35.360 that a lot
00:29:35.820 of people
00:29:36.120 have had
00:29:36.600 is that
00:29:37.120 police
00:29:37.460 are by
00:29:38.360 default
00:29:39.000 tight-lipped
00:29:39.600 on things
00:29:40.380 and I'd
00:29:40.880 say even
00:29:41.280 to the
00:29:41.540 point
00:29:41.740 where they
00:29:42.020 don't
00:29:42.200 have
00:29:42.460 to be
00:29:42.740 and
00:29:42.920 in a
00:29:43.600 lot
00:29:43.740 of
00:29:43.840 cases
00:29:44.140 when
00:29:44.340 questions
00:29:44.740 have been
00:29:45.020 posed
00:29:45.300 to the
00:29:45.560 RCMP
00:29:46.020 they say
00:29:46.560 it's early
00:29:46.980 we can't
00:29:47.480 comment
00:29:47.860 it's early
00:29:48.400 it's an
00:29:48.720 ongoing
00:29:48.980 investigation
00:29:49.500 we can't
00:29:50.100 comment
00:29:50.400 I found
00:29:51.360 it interesting
00:29:51.880 though that
00:29:52.200 when this
00:29:52.520 story came
00:29:53.220 out about
00:29:54.620 any sort
00:29:55.640 of potential
00:29:56.180 relationship
00:29:56.860 and again
00:29:57.300 it is all
00:29:58.060 speculative
00:29:58.600 the RCMP
00:29:59.720 was very
00:30:00.260 quick to
00:30:00.760 say
00:30:01.000 you know
00:30:01.540 maybe he
00:30:02.240 withdrew the
00:30:02.740 money for
00:30:03.180 pandemic
00:30:03.640 related reasons
00:30:04.580 so I did
00:30:05.440 find it
00:30:05.780 interesting
00:30:06.180 that that
00:30:06.940 sort of
00:30:07.300 self-preservation
00:30:08.180 mentality
00:30:08.760 seemed to
00:30:09.280 kick in
00:30:09.740 from the
00:30:10.440 RCMP
00:30:10.900 comms
00:30:11.380 officials
00:30:11.780 here
00:30:12.100 and then
00:30:12.520 they started
00:30:13.040 speculating
00:30:13.620 about what
00:30:14.020 his motivations
00:30:14.620 might have
00:30:15.100 been for
00:30:15.820 withdrawing
00:30:16.380 the money
00:30:16.700 it seemed
00:30:17.180 like to
00:30:17.540 deflect
00:30:17.800 the attention
00:30:18.320 off of
00:30:18.760 them
00:30:19.040 well it's
00:30:19.860 classic
00:30:20.460 deflect and
00:30:22.040 spin
00:30:22.400 isn't it
00:30:23.100 I'm not
00:30:24.400 going to
00:30:24.660 apologize
00:30:25.220 and certainly
00:30:26.000 don't you
00:30:27.260 have to
00:30:27.680 make any
00:30:28.340 apologies
00:30:29.800 for any
00:30:30.400 allegations
00:30:31.060 towards the
00:30:31.780 RCMP's
00:30:32.780 media relations
00:30:34.340 strategy
00:30:34.960 it's abysmal
00:30:35.900 and it's been
00:30:36.440 abysmal for
00:30:37.200 several decades
00:30:38.140 that has
00:30:39.420 clearly hasn't
00:30:40.560 changed
00:30:41.020 the RCMP
00:30:42.840 has always
00:30:43.720 been
00:30:44.120 economical
00:30:45.160 with
00:30:46.460 information
00:30:47.080 that's
00:30:47.500 just
00:30:47.880 the nature
00:30:49.640 of the
00:30:50.060 beast
00:30:50.440 trying to
00:30:51.800 pry
00:30:52.080 information
00:30:52.820 out of
00:30:53.200 them
00:30:53.360 even if
00:30:53.940 you're
00:30:54.160 within
00:30:54.480 even if
00:30:55.180 you're
00:30:55.420 working
00:30:55.700 with the
00:30:56.300 RCMP
00:30:56.880 on a
00:30:57.480 mutually
00:30:58.480 interested
00:30:59.280 project
00:30:59.820 it's still
00:31:00.820 hard to
00:31:01.280 get
00:31:01.440 information
00:31:02.120 everybody
00:31:02.980 is so
00:31:03.520 protective
00:31:04.140 of what
00:31:04.680 they view
00:31:05.640 as their
00:31:06.060 own
00:31:06.320 possession
00:31:06.980 or their
00:31:07.400 own
00:31:07.620 domain
00:31:08.140 or their
00:31:08.520 own
00:31:08.740 fiefdom
00:31:09.280 they don't
00:31:10.100 want to
00:31:10.340 let it
00:31:10.600 out
00:31:10.860 and you
00:31:12.240 see that
00:31:12.800 in cases
00:31:13.340 like this
00:31:13.980 where the
00:31:14.680 media and
00:31:15.340 the public
00:31:15.820 is clamoring
00:31:16.460 I mean
00:31:16.720 22 people
00:31:17.700 were murdered
00:31:18.300 by one
00:31:20.060 guy in a
00:31:21.380 single night
00:31:22.160 that demands
00:31:24.600 an explanation
00:31:25.420 and such as
00:31:26.540 we've had
00:31:27.040 from the
00:31:27.500 RCMP
00:31:28.100 in my view
00:31:29.100 is woefully
00:31:30.700 lacking
00:31:31.220 do you think
00:31:33.240 that in a
00:31:33.660 case like
00:31:34.200 this I mean
00:31:34.680 the old saying
00:31:35.280 that dead men
00:31:35.880 tell no tales
00:31:36.660 do you think
00:31:37.220 that the
00:31:38.160 questions will
00:31:38.920 ever truly
00:31:39.520 be answered
00:31:40.120 in a case
00:31:40.800 like this
00:31:41.300 that's the
00:31:41.660 problem
00:31:42.020 with these
00:31:42.400 so-called
00:31:42.820 lone wolf
00:31:43.520 sort of
00:31:44.160 attacks
00:31:44.600 is that
00:31:45.180 you aren't
00:31:45.560 looking at
00:31:46.080 a conspiracy
00:31:46.640 of sorts
00:31:47.380 where you
00:31:47.680 can start
00:31:48.140 finding
00:31:48.720 individual
00:31:49.180 people
00:31:49.640 that will
00:31:50.240 give you
00:31:50.900 pieces of
00:31:51.320 the puzzle
00:31:51.660 if it's
00:31:51.960 just one
00:31:52.340 person
00:31:52.740 sure maybe
00:31:53.320 you can
00:31:53.700 tell a bit
00:31:54.460 of a story
00:31:54.960 about that
00:31:55.380 person
00:31:55.800 and everyone
00:31:56.220 said they
00:31:56.680 might have
00:31:56.940 had issues
00:31:57.480 or red
00:31:57.900 flags
00:31:58.280 but do you
00:31:59.080 think you'll
00:31:59.440 ever be
00:31:59.820 able to
00:32:00.200 truly get
00:32:00.820 the full
00:32:01.340 picture in
00:32:02.020 something like
00:32:02.580 this
00:32:02.960 well I
00:32:04.200 think so
00:32:04.840 the RCMP
00:32:06.660 keep their
00:32:07.540 lips buttoned
00:32:08.540 for so long
00:32:09.920 there's going
00:32:11.040 to be a
00:32:12.020 number of
00:32:12.680 coroner's
00:32:13.260 inquest
00:32:13.700 coming up
00:32:14.380 into the
00:32:14.800 deaths of
00:32:15.240 22 people
00:32:16.120 not to
00:32:16.600 mention
00:32:16.840 Wordman
00:32:17.400 himself
00:32:17.960 the coroner
00:32:19.340 in Nova
00:32:19.840 Scotia
00:32:20.520 will be
00:32:21.540 looking very
00:32:22.420 specifically
00:32:23.580 at causation
00:32:25.140 factors
00:32:25.740 etc
00:32:26.200 and the
00:32:27.920 one thing
00:32:28.540 that is
00:32:29.700 very very
00:32:30.240 hard to
00:32:30.880 do
00:32:31.260 at that
00:32:32.180 point in
00:32:32.760 time
00:32:33.100 when you're
00:32:33.620 laying
00:32:34.280 everything
00:32:34.840 bare in
00:32:35.300 a coroner's
00:32:35.920 inquest
00:32:36.420 is to
00:32:37.120 try and
00:32:37.580 hide
00:32:37.860 something
00:32:38.300 and
00:32:39.060 while I've
00:32:41.640 seen it
00:32:42.020 done in
00:32:42.420 the past
00:32:42.940 usually what
00:32:43.600 happens is
00:32:44.240 won't be
00:32:44.740 tied to
00:32:45.120 anybody who
00:32:45.720 tries to
00:32:46.460 hide something
00:32:47.480 from the
00:32:47.900 coroner
00:32:48.360 so just to
00:32:50.400 wrap up that
00:32:51.360 initial sort of
00:32:52.140 McLean story
00:32:52.820 here the RCMP
00:32:53.800 said that
00:32:55.080 it can confirm
00:32:56.080 that the RCMP
00:32:56.960 was not the
00:32:57.820 source of those
00:32:58.520 funds as
00:32:59.600 incorrectly
00:33:00.200 assumed in
00:33:00.940 recent media
00:33:01.620 articles unquote
00:33:02.560 so do you
00:33:03.020 think that
00:33:03.620 let me
00:33:05.620 ask the
00:33:06.320 question in
00:33:06.760 two ways
00:33:07.220 here for
00:33:07.560 starters do
00:33:08.120 you think
00:33:08.420 that you
00:33:08.980 know that's
00:33:09.420 that's it
00:33:09.820 that should
00:33:10.220 sort of end
00:33:10.760 it or the
00:33:11.900 other side
00:33:12.420 of that do
00:33:12.880 you think
00:33:13.280 that the
00:33:14.120 RCMP by
00:33:14.880 being so
00:33:15.340 unequivocal
00:33:16.020 and so
00:33:16.420 clear in
00:33:16.880 its terms
00:33:17.420 they're
00:33:17.900 basically
00:33:18.360 guaranteeing
00:33:19.120 there's
00:33:19.360 nothing to
00:33:19.780 hide they
00:33:20.160 have no
00:33:20.640 relationship
00:33:21.360 with this
00:33:21.820 guy
00:33:22.100 again I
00:33:24.680 harbor no
00:33:25.440 illusions about
00:33:26.420 the veracity
00:33:27.140 of anything
00:33:27.720 that's being
00:33:28.280 put forth in
00:33:29.100 public we
00:33:30.200 don't know
00:33:30.660 where the
00:33:31.040 investigation is
00:33:32.140 going we
00:33:32.720 don't know
00:33:33.340 if the
00:33:34.860 police are
00:33:35.420 trying to put
00:33:36.000 out a red
00:33:36.600 herring for
00:33:37.260 whatever reason
00:33:38.100 to try and
00:33:38.820 deflect attention
00:33:39.800 from something
00:33:40.640 we just don't
00:33:41.800 know and
00:33:42.820 and as I
00:33:43.960 say it's all
00:33:45.080 speculation it's
00:33:46.240 wild speculation
00:33:47.260 and perhaps
00:33:48.880 some of it's
00:33:49.560 even educated
00:33:50.380 speculation but
00:33:51.480 it's still
00:33:51.880 speculation
00:33:52.580 Andrew
00:33:53.000 I think that's
00:33:54.660 a great
00:33:55.100 distinction
00:33:55.620 Leo Knight
00:33:56.460 True North
00:33:56.880 fellow and
00:33:57.540 former police
00:33:58.200 officer thank
00:33:58.840 you so much
00:33:59.520 for coming on
00:34:00.020 Leo really
00:34:00.440 appreciate it
00:34:01.160 you're very
00:34:01.920 welcome even
00:34:02.560 though it's
00:34:02.960 early
00:34:03.260 yeah that's
00:34:05.320 the Leo's
00:34:05.940 out on the
00:34:06.240 west coast so
00:34:06.820 he's doing us
00:34:07.340 a real courtesy
00:34:08.120 by joining us
00:34:08.800 at this time
00:34:09.260 thanks again
00:34:09.800 all right take
00:34:10.740 care you know
00:34:11.720 I will say you
00:34:12.320 can kind of see
00:34:13.140 how conspiracy
00:34:14.120 theories take
00:34:14.960 hold because
00:34:15.540 when I first
00:34:16.080 read that
00:34:16.800 McLean story
00:34:17.540 you know the
00:34:17.980 first thing that
00:34:18.720 jumped out at
00:34:19.160 me is unnamed
00:34:20.000 source unnamed
00:34:20.720 source unnamed
00:34:21.380 source in
00:34:21.780 banking unnamed
00:34:22.480 source in
00:34:22.920 law enforcement
00:34:23.560 no one with
00:34:24.820 a connection to
00:34:25.480 the case so
00:34:26.120 it was purely
00:34:27.160 based on well
00:34:28.620 police would pay
00:34:29.700 someone this way
00:34:30.520 the guy wouldn't
00:34:31.440 have access to
00:34:32.160 the Brinks
00:34:32.500 Brinks banking
00:34:33.220 unless it was
00:34:34.540 coming through
00:34:35.000 this and and
00:34:36.440 that was all
00:34:36.960 fine but then
00:34:38.080 you you read
00:34:39.100 the other side
00:34:39.740 and it's like
00:34:40.000 well hang on
00:34:40.640 for starters what
00:34:41.600 would he have
00:34:42.060 had that was so
00:34:42.920 valuable that's
00:34:43.840 the the big
00:34:44.580 thing what
00:34:44.960 information would
00:34:45.560 this guy have
00:34:45.960 had that was
00:34:46.360 worth half a
00:34:46.900 million dollars and
00:34:47.620 as Leo said
00:34:48.300 you know there
00:34:49.200 wasn't really
00:34:49.640 anything that has
00:34:50.340 come out so
00:34:50.960 far that would
00:34:52.020 suggest this guy
00:34:52.760 was anything other
00:34:53.400 than small time
00:34:54.200 if he was
00:34:55.180 connected with the
00:34:56.320 crime world at
00:34:57.080 all I mean
00:34:57.940 five hundred
00:34:58.420 thousand dollars
00:34:59.060 that would be
00:34:59.540 like terrorism
00:35:00.260 levels of
00:35:01.340 information this
00:35:02.780 guy again still
00:35:04.560 we don't know a
00:35:05.500 lot but this guy
00:35:06.300 didn't seem to
00:35:06.920 have any ties there
00:35:07.800 so you know but
00:35:09.920 but at the same
00:35:10.420 time you're like
00:35:10.940 okay something is
00:35:12.000 odd there something
00:35:13.060 doesn't add up and
00:35:14.140 I found it
00:35:14.580 interesting that the
00:35:15.840 police who I
00:35:16.440 mentioned earlier
00:35:17.000 are always so
00:35:17.620 tight-lipped and
00:35:18.280 they never want to
00:35:18.820 talk about anything
00:35:19.500 they never want to
00:35:20.140 speculate as to
00:35:20.940 motive when they're
00:35:22.140 facing criticisms and
00:35:23.640 scrutiny they're like
00:35:24.360 oh maybe he was
00:35:25.200 doing this and that
00:35:26.600 was that story that
00:35:27.460 you know he was just
00:35:28.300 concerned about what
00:35:29.440 the banking industry
00:35:30.220 would do with his
00:35:30.840 money with a
00:35:31.760 pandemic so he
00:35:32.520 decided to withdraw a
00:35:34.060 significant amount of
00:35:34.920 cash and the RCMP
00:35:35.880 said yeah we knew
00:35:36.600 about that that was
00:35:37.360 early on and then it
00:35:39.100 raises the question
00:35:39.720 okay if you knew
00:35:40.340 about it why didn't
00:35:41.740 you talk about it
00:35:42.620 why is it the media
00:35:43.640 that's uncovering
00:35:44.480 these details rather
00:35:45.780 than the people that
00:35:46.540 are supposed to be
00:35:47.240 briefing the public
00:35:48.080 and briefing the
00:35:48.780 media on these
00:35:50.120 details we've got to
00:35:51.180 take a break here when
00:35:51.920 we come back we'll
00:35:52.520 close things out here
00:35:53.360 on the Andrew
00:35:53.920 Lawton show stay
00:35:54.800 tuned you're tuned in
00:35:57.680 to the Andrew Lawton
00:35:58.900 show
00:35:59.260 never doubt that the
00:36:05.960 old boys club the
00:36:07.360 old cronies club can
00:36:08.640 do more than anyone
00:36:09.840 else in the world could
00:36:10.840 ever do in this case
00:36:11.900 a story in Black
00:36:12.960 Locks reporter
00:36:13.660 SNC Lavelland wins
00:36:15.120 6.8 million dollar
00:36:17.060 contracts despite
00:36:18.500 corruption despite
00:36:19.800 bribery despite
00:36:20.840 illegal activity
00:36:21.820 despite all of
00:36:23.140 these things despite
00:36:24.040 being in among the
00:36:25.960 most corrupt or
00:36:27.320 making Canada among
00:36:28.340 the most corrupt
00:36:28.940 nations in the world
00:36:30.480 so much so that the
00:36:31.720 world bank was even
00:36:32.740 like you know we'll
00:36:33.720 lend money to you
00:36:34.520 know African
00:36:34.900 dictatorships we don't
00:36:36.000 like this SNC
00:36:36.800 Lavelland thing they
00:36:38.340 are still getting
00:36:39.640 federal contracts the
00:36:40.840 country company agreed
00:36:41.760 to pay 1.9 million
00:36:43.200 dollars in fines under
00:36:44.360 the competition act
00:36:45.360 for rigging bids
00:36:47.160 on December 18th of
00:36:50.120 last year pleaded
00:36:50.860 guilty to fraud and
00:36:52.400 was fined 280 million
00:36:53.940 admitted that it paid
00:36:55.500 close to 50 million
00:36:56.580 dollars in bribes to
00:36:58.060 the son of Muammar
00:36:59.620 Gaddafi to win
00:37:00.400 construction contracts
00:37:01.480 and since then SNC
00:37:03.180 Lavelland has still
00:37:04.240 received almost 7
00:37:06.080 million dollar in
00:37:07.160 federal contracts
00:37:08.220 including one contract
00:37:09.780 that was awarded
00:37:10.880 according to the story
00:37:11.880 the day it admitted
00:37:13.040 to fraud so this is
00:37:15.100 now a company that
00:37:16.640 is still profiting
00:37:18.360 still profiting
00:37:19.460 despite its illegal
00:37:21.140 activity and you know
00:37:22.420 again when Justin
00:37:23.160 Trudeau says well you
00:37:24.020 know Quebec jobs are
00:37:25.100 more important than
00:37:26.240 you know standing up
00:37:27.540 for against corruption
00:37:28.860 and standing up for
00:37:29.800 the rule of law and
00:37:30.580 all of that you know
00:37:32.100 it's a very low bar if
00:37:33.900 we were to say okay
00:37:34.620 SNC Lavelland you have
00:37:35.960 surrendered your right
00:37:37.220 to do business with the
00:37:38.040 government we can't
00:37:38.760 shut you down if other
00:37:39.620 people want to trust
00:37:40.380 you with their money
00:37:40.860 that's fine but the
00:37:42.180 Canadian government is
00:37:43.040 not going to give
00:37:43.740 taxpayer money to you
00:37:45.060 and that was apparently
00:37:46.100 too much because oh
00:37:47.420 it's all about jobs and
00:37:48.560 it's interesting that you
00:37:49.520 know I'm all for economic
00:37:50.520 growth and development I
00:37:51.600 am truly I like jobs I
00:37:53.440 like robust economies but
00:37:55.160 you have to have a level
00:37:56.340 of integrity if you're
00:37:57.940 going to have any
00:37:58.720 credibility on other
00:37:59.840 things that you try to
00:38:00.820 do especially on human
00:38:02.280 rights grounds so
00:38:03.440 Justin Trudeau wants to
00:38:04.460 be the world's policeman he
00:38:05.700 wants to go around the
00:38:06.580 world and you know extol
00:38:08.100 Canadian values and all
00:38:09.320 of that stuff and impose
00:38:10.380 Canadian values even when
00:38:11.660 they're not wanted and a
00:38:13.000 load of good that did at
00:38:13.760 the United Nations by the
00:38:14.820 way meanwhile he's turning a
00:38:16.860 blind eye to a company
00:38:17.820 that's been putting tens of
00:38:19.320 million dollars into a
00:38:20.560 dictator's pockets the the
00:38:21.980 Gaddafi son the Gaddafi
00:38:24.480 son the Gaddafi regime the
00:38:25.940 Gaddafi family so I would
00:38:27.900 say yeah maybe it's time we
00:38:29.540 shut the book on SNC
00:38:31.380 Lavelland and this is a
00:38:32.960 company like it will never go
00:38:34.940 away it's like the
00:38:35.640 bombardier of well I guess
00:38:37.500 bombardier is the bombardier
00:38:38.660 of Canada but it's it's
00:38:40.120 like the bombardier of
00:38:41.660 Canada in the sense that
00:38:43.100 it just is always going to
00:38:44.820 be on the receiving end of
00:38:46.460 government money but in
00:38:47.720 bombardier's case they're
00:38:48.780 not corrupt they're just
00:38:49.620 bad at business in SNC
00:38:50.900 Lavelland's case we're
00:38:52.180 talking about a grossly
00:38:54.000 criminal enterprise that is
00:38:56.840 still getting taxpayer money
00:38:59.060 we'll talk to you in a
00:38:59.920 couple of days folks my
00:39:00.780 thanks to all of you for
00:39:01.620 tuning in and to Leo
00:39:02.600 Knight for coming on the
00:39:03.480 show thank you god bless and
00:39:05.260 good day Canada
00:39:05.960 thanks for listening to the
00:39:07.360 Andrew Lawton show
00:39:08.240 support the program by
00:39:09.500 donating to true north at
00:39:10.780 www.tnc.news
00:39:13.700 home world
00:39:19.000 we'll be
00:39:21.800 we'll be
00:39:23.580 we'll be