Juno News - The Art of Self-Cancelling

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's most irreverent talk show. This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.680 Coming up, more casualties in the cancel wars. Was the Nova Scotia killer an RCMP agent and SNC-Lavalin still getting government money?

00:00:25.000 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:30.000 Hey everyone, welcome to another edition of the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:00:35.440 You're listening to Canada's most irreverent talk show here on True North.

00:00:40.020 Another Monday, another week, and another time where the cancel wars are continuing.

00:00:45.080 Yeah, I guess we'll have to devote a little bit of every show now until this current goes away to talking about the people who have lost their job since the last show.

00:00:54.080 And in particular, you might not be eager to stand up and defend Ben Mulroney, who I know is not the most unifying figure.

00:01:02.260 He's like the Nickelback of entertainment television.

00:01:04.840 But there is an interesting thing that's happened here.

00:01:07.480 And this is just coming moments before I started recording the show here.

00:01:10.940 Ben Mulroney is stepping aside from the anchor chair at CTV's eTalk because he wants to, in his words,

00:01:19.720 make space for a black or indigenous or person of color anchor to replace him.

00:01:26.200 So he's not even been canceled for doing anything.

00:01:28.780 He didn't say anything.

00:01:29.520 But he's just deciding to trade in his white privilege, which he acknowledges has contributed to him having the career that he's had and stepping aside.

00:01:37.380 And this is, whether it's connected or not, it's something he did while invoking the name of his wife, Jessica Mulroney,

00:01:43.940 who I don't know if it was last week or two weeks ago, was canceled for not being sufficiently woke in the wake of Black Lives Matter protests.

00:01:52.060 She wasn't even racist.

00:01:53.180 She didn't say anything.

00:01:54.000 She didn't do anything.

00:01:55.280 But a black blogger had criticized Jessica Mulroney for not being as excited as every other celebrity was about Black Lives Matter and not, you know, sharing her excitement enough.

00:02:06.120 So then that ended up being a back and forth that, again, initially just looked like a petty squabble,

00:02:11.860 the kind that you'd expect from an entertainment TV personality and a lifestyle blogger.

00:02:16.480 But that petty squabble in 2020 is evidence of racism.

00:02:20.960 And then Jessica Mulroney has now lost pretty much everything. 1.00

00:02:24.300 She's gotten her show, I Do Redo, canceled.

00:02:27.420 She's gotten a lot of endorsements, even a charity that she founded.

00:02:32.760 She's basically had to take a step back from and all over nothing.

00:02:37.460 I mean, this is someone who's literally been rubbing elbows and shoulders in the society circuit for years.

00:02:43.500 She probably checks off all of the diversity boxes as far as what she believes and what she thinks.

00:02:48.900 But now she's just a white privilege and she's got to go. 0.51

00:02:52.460 So Ben Mulroney, who says he still loves his wife and isn't speaking for her, is now stepping aside on his own.

00:02:59.460 Let me just roll the video that he did for Your Morning on CTV.

00:03:03.380 I want to take a moment to speak to you about the situation surrounding my wife, Jessica, and the next steps I will be taking with Bell Media.

00:03:10.920 I love my wife.

00:03:13.040 However, it is not my place to speak for her.

00:03:15.360 And today, together, we are committed to doing the work to both learn and understand more about anti-black racism,

00:03:21.060 as well as learn and understand more about our blind spots.

00:03:24.760 So what does this mean for me?

00:03:26.500 Well, it means acknowledging here today that my privilege has benefited me greatly.

00:03:31.580 And while I have certainly worked hard to build my career,

00:03:34.640 I know that systemic racism and injustice helps people like me and harms those who aren't like me,

00:03:40.520 often in ways that are invisible to us.

00:03:43.720 This needs to change.

00:03:45.800 Last Saturday, I watched on CTV as my colleagues led a national conversation about how we can take action against systemic racism.

00:03:52.900 And that conversation showed me more than ever, we need more black voices, more indigenous voices,

00:03:58.280 more people of color in the media, as well as every other profession.

00:04:02.020 And that is why I have decided to immediately step away from my role as anchor at eTalk to create space for a new perspective and a new voice.

00:04:11.780 It is my hope that that new anchor is black, indigenous, or a person of color,

00:04:15.940 and they can use this important platform to inspire, to lead, and to make change.

00:04:20.920 I am so proud of everyone involved with eTalk and indeed CTV.

00:04:25.400 And I know they will continue to demonstrate the excellence that has made that show and this network number one.

00:04:31.540 And while I am no longer anchoring eTalk, I will continue to contribute to the show,

00:04:35.920 hosting red carpets, and taking on other special projects here at Bell Media.

00:04:39.760 Of course, I look forward to bringing you the news every day here at Your Morning,

00:04:43.300 alongside my amazing colleagues, Anne-Marie, Lindsay, and Kelsey.

00:04:46.780 So that's the plan. Thank you for your words of kindness, your support,

00:04:52.260 and most importantly, holding us all, including me, accountable.

00:04:56.160 This is the television equivalent of bending the knee even when you've done absolutely nothing wrong.

00:05:03.600 And by the way, if Ben Mulroney thinks that this is a way he can make his contribution to the blow against racism,

00:05:08.560 then fine. I'm not going to fault him for that. He's made a decision.

00:05:12.380 There's no evidence that I've seen that suggests he's been forced out in any way.

00:05:17.000 He's just deciding that he's got too much white privilege.

00:05:20.020 He needs to trade some in and get a bit of credibility in the anti-racism fight.

00:05:24.980 Okay, fine.

00:05:26.080 Now, I don't know whether I'm more bothered by just this sheer absurdity of this exercise,

00:05:32.680 or by the fact that he hasn't really done all that much.

00:05:37.680 This is from the accompanying statement that CTV put out,

00:05:40.640 and Ben kind of indicated this in his thing.

00:05:42.720 He said, the statement says,

00:05:44.380 In addition to his ongoing role as co-host of Your Morning,

00:05:47.780 Mulroney will continue to contribute to eTalk on special assignments,

00:05:51.900 including the red carpet events like the Oscars that have helped make eTalk the leader in Canadian entertainment news.

00:05:57.500 He will also develop and produce projects for Bell Media Studios.

00:06:01.580 So he's got like nine jobs at Bell Media,

00:06:04.320 and it sounds like he's given up basically all but eight of the nine jobs.

00:06:08.780 So he's going to leave eTalk, which I don't even know how many people watch,

00:06:13.320 but he's going to keep co-hosting the morning show.

00:06:15.220 He's going to keep doing the Oscars.

00:06:16.540 He's going to keep putting projects through.

00:06:18.500 So it's not even like his, you know,

00:06:20.420 I'm stepping back so we can make space for black indigenous people of color 1.00

00:06:24.140 is even really done with all that gusto.

00:06:26.780 Why not say, you know, I really think we need a Canadian indigenous red carpet reporter.

00:06:31.580 You know, I think we need a Canadian indigenous co-host of Your Morning.

00:06:35.200 So it's not even like he's committing to the exercise that he's claiming he is.

00:06:40.480 And again, you may think I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here

00:06:43.660 because my initial point is that I don't think he has to do any of this.

00:06:47.560 But I will say if you're going to do it, at least do it.

00:06:50.400 If you're going to do this commitment thing,

00:06:52.740 go the full Monty, do the full Monty,

00:06:54.880 go as far as you can with it and say,

00:06:56.920 yeah, you know what?

00:06:58.240 I'm giving up all my money.

00:06:59.500 I was the beneficiary of privilege.

00:07:01.500 I shouldn't have this.

00:07:02.480 I'm giving up my career.

00:07:03.480 I was the beneficiary of privilege.

00:07:05.560 You know, I will not deny and do not deny

00:07:08.400 and don't think anyone else should deny that racism exists.

00:07:11.200 And I also will say,

00:07:12.660 and this is to the point that we talked about last week

00:07:15.200 with Hal McLeod from, or Hal Johnson from Body Break,

00:07:18.980 him sharing about how racism was responsible

00:07:22.420 for him getting passed over for opportunities.

00:07:24.540 I realize that there are a lot of people in media

00:07:27.400 who have been elevated to positions,

00:07:30.560 not because of their race necessarily,

00:07:33.240 but who certainly people on the minority side of things

00:07:36.100 who have been turned down for jobs because of racism.

00:07:38.380 I don't deny that's happened.

00:07:40.460 But to say that if you are successful and you are white, 0.65

00:07:45.680 you only got there because of your race is offensive.

00:07:49.380 And that's what's happening here

00:07:50.760 is that people are being told

00:07:52.120 and people are believing and internalizing

00:07:54.400 that the white privilege is so powerful

00:07:56.780 that they didn't have to work hard.

00:07:58.960 Look, I know that a lot of people in media

00:08:00.860 who are black and white and other races and cultures

00:08:04.820 have had to work very hard to get where they had to go.

00:08:08.180 Some people work harder.

00:08:09.780 You know, I would say that Ben Mulroney

00:08:11.580 probably benefited more from having the name Mulroney

00:08:15.400 than he did from being white.

00:08:17.940 Jessica Mulroney probably benefited more 0.85

00:08:20.280 from taking on the name Mulroney

00:08:22.140 than she did from being white.

00:08:25.060 Media in Canada is a very insular bubble.

00:08:28.280 Media is hereditary.

00:08:29.560 It's in your genetics in this country

00:08:31.500 where the sons and grandchildren of people

00:08:34.440 tend to rise up well.

00:08:36.300 Other people who aren't part of that in crowd,

00:08:38.180 who aren't part of those society groups,

00:08:40.020 don't do as well,

00:08:41.020 especially in Toronto and especially in television.

00:08:43.600 So there is a privilege that...

00:08:45.920 What about Mulroney privilege?

00:08:47.240 I mean, Mulroney privilege is powerful

00:08:49.040 and more powerful than white privilege.

00:08:51.080 And that's not what's being spoken about.

00:08:53.620 The point is that if you start talking

00:08:55.620 about a level playing field,

00:08:57.220 you're going to reveal all of these contradictions

00:08:59.960 which make it impossible,

00:09:03.160 absolutely impossible,

00:09:04.400 to find a way forward

00:09:06.040 that will give that equality of outcome

00:09:08.240 that so many people seem to want.

00:09:10.680 That equality of outcome

00:09:11.680 that you cannot manufacture,

00:09:13.260 that you cannot manipulate into happening

00:09:15.020 because decision-making, success,

00:09:17.660 all of these things are a lot more complex

00:09:20.260 than a lot of the critics right now

00:09:22.500 are making them out to be.

00:09:24.560 And again, suppose that you have...

00:09:26.580 And I don't want to name names here,

00:09:28.280 but suppose that you have

00:09:29.200 a very successful person of color

00:09:31.360 who's in media in Canada.

00:09:33.020 Their son or daughter

00:09:34.260 is going to have a better shot at success

00:09:38.200 than someone who happens to be white

00:09:40.940 who's not connected.

00:09:42.020 So there's a form of familial privilege right there

00:09:46.300 that is not racial,

00:09:48.060 that is not cultural,

00:09:49.060 that is not ethnic,

00:09:49.900 that is none of those things.

00:09:52.000 And, you know, education,

00:09:53.880 a lot of where you've come from,

00:09:56.660 I mean, if you're not from Toronto,

00:09:58.580 the idea that you could just break

00:10:00.640 into the Toronto media bubble

00:10:02.380 is not a given at all.

00:10:04.220 There are people that are born there

00:10:05.840 that are from that city

00:10:06.680 that are going to be a lot more connected

00:10:08.380 to those groups and to those crowds.

00:10:10.600 That's always been the way it is.

00:10:12.020 And again, that doesn't make it right.

00:10:13.480 I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

00:10:15.020 I'm not passing a moral judgment here.

00:10:17.140 But the idea that you can distill privilege down

00:10:19.660 solely to race,

00:10:21.280 which is what a lot of people are doing,

00:10:23.000 to such an extent

00:10:24.140 that people who have had success

00:10:26.240 who are white

00:10:27.020 are no longer able to partake in that

00:10:29.700 in society.

00:10:30.700 It's that what a lot of the protesters want,

00:10:32.980 and I'm not talking about people

00:10:33.820 that are talking about genuine equality

00:10:35.540 and people that are talking about police reform

00:10:38.520 and a lot of these sensible things,

00:10:40.260 but the people that are saying

00:10:41.640 we have to tear down white privilege,

00:10:43.740 they are trying to craft a vision of this

00:10:46.720 and craft a narrative of this

00:10:48.060 that suggests that no white person

00:10:50.060 could ever have been capable of anything.

00:10:52.320 And in a lot of ways,

00:10:53.340 they seem to want to replace

00:10:54.620 what they identify as one problem

00:10:56.560 with another problem.

00:10:58.620 So when Ben Mulroney gets up and says,

00:11:00.520 you know what, I'm going to step down

00:11:01.940 so that I can put a black, 0.99

00:11:03.100 indigenous person of color here,

00:11:04.640 he's saying that we need to put someone

00:11:06.820 into that position solely because of their race.

00:11:10.760 And we've heard countless stories

00:11:13.220 of affirmative action programs,

00:11:14.960 especially in academia,

00:11:15.980 that have caused a reverse racism effect.

00:11:20.100 You have that job posting we talked about last week

00:11:22.660 from CBC Kids a while ago,

00:11:24.620 which was saying they wanted any race but Caucasian.

00:11:27.440 The diversity trend has been a very powerful one

00:11:31.260 for quite a while to such a point that,

00:11:33.680 yeah, there are certainly people

00:11:35.040 that have been turned down from jobs

00:11:37.340 because they're white.

00:11:39.180 And a lot of people don't want to have these dialogues

00:11:41.760 because they say, well, they're different.

00:11:43.180 I mean, in one case,

00:11:44.020 you're trying to correct a problem.

00:11:45.880 And in the other case, it is the problem itself.

00:11:48.220 But if you try to solve one thing

00:11:50.500 with basically the identical problem in reverse,

00:11:53.360 you're not really doing all that much.

00:11:55.540 And this is where you have to look at

00:11:56.980 how no one is going to end up

00:11:59.080 in this situation particularly well.

00:12:01.600 The industries that we're trying to reform here

00:12:03.940 are not edified by this.

00:12:05.920 You've just got people like Ben Mulroney

00:12:07.700 that get to, I can't really think

00:12:09.520 of any other explanation for it,

00:12:10.960 but say they're claiming some credibility

00:12:12.480 in the social justice circuit by saying,

00:12:15.340 you know, I've got to make room.

00:12:17.780 And in a lot of ways, it's that,

00:12:19.500 what's that narrative you hear,

00:12:20.880 the white savior narrative?

00:12:22.200 You know, I'm, oh, I'm being an ally,

00:12:24.460 but you're not actually doing anything.

00:12:25.720 You just take a little bit less off your plate

00:12:27.700 and you don't lose any of the really prestigious parts of it

00:12:30.940 because there are still people

00:12:32.480 that are being canceled,

00:12:34.280 that are having their jobs lost,

00:12:35.680 that are not getting to make the decision

00:12:37.440 like Ben Mulroney did

00:12:39.320 for reasons that have absolutely nothing

00:12:41.820 to do with racism.

00:12:44.280 I want to turn to British Columbia here

00:12:46.440 where Michael Korenberg resigned from his position

00:12:49.940 as chair and board member

00:12:51.220 at the University of British Columbia

00:12:53.140 on the board of governors

00:12:54.320 for being, as CBC says, racist.

00:12:58.180 He liked racist and far-right comments on Twitter.

00:13:01.440 Daily Hive as well did a story.

00:13:03.440 UBC board of governors chair resigns

00:13:05.480 after liking racist pro-Trump tweets.

00:13:08.480 Now, I say a lot of things about CBC

00:13:10.680 as I know a lot of you

00:13:11.740 who tune into this show do as well.

00:13:14.300 This is beyond the pale.

00:13:16.720 They've said that he likes racist

00:13:18.640 and far-right comments on Twitter.

00:13:20.360 They repeated in the lead line,

00:13:21.760 the chair of the University of British Columbia's

00:13:25.000 board of governors has resigned

00:13:26.320 after liking racist and conspiracy theory posts

00:13:29.480 on Twitter, including tweets disparaging

00:13:31.820 the Black Lives Matter movement.

00:13:34.200 Now, what did he like that was so racist,

00:13:36.680 you might ask?

00:13:37.380 Well, that's a very good question,

00:13:38.540 person who asked that.

00:13:39.780 The story doesn't actually say.

00:13:41.680 The story does not identify any racism at all.

00:13:46.320 The story just takes it for granted

00:13:48.240 and expects you to take for granted

00:13:49.700 that this guy was racist

00:13:51.120 for liking racist things on Twitter.

00:13:53.360 And then you look at the detail.

00:13:55.120 He posted or he liked photos

00:13:57.900 and tweets and stuff

00:13:59.360 that included praise for Donald Trump,

00:14:02.300 another tweet that referenced protesters

00:14:04.340 as violent looters,

00:14:05.900 and a conspiracy theory

00:14:07.240 that compared Black Lives Matter protests

00:14:09.040 to Adolf Hitler's paramilitary tactics.

00:14:11.760 Now, he didn't say this.

00:14:13.080 He didn't do anything about this.

00:14:14.440 He liked tweets that made these claims.

00:14:17.300 He liked tweets.

00:14:18.400 That was his crime.

00:14:19.700 And what happened is

00:14:21.120 this is enough to get a group called

00:14:23.340 UBC Students Against Bigotry

00:14:26.300 to start harassing and campaigning.

00:14:29.580 And eventually he resigns.

00:14:31.560 I say fired because when you resign

00:14:33.580 in the midst of a mob,

00:14:34.600 it's not like you're actually

00:14:35.700 just doing the Ben Mulroney thing

00:14:37.200 and saying,

00:14:37.720 I'm just going to take a step back.

00:14:39.260 You're done.

00:14:40.420 Now, he gave a statement

00:14:41.860 that I thought was absolutely abysmal

00:14:43.840 and embarrassing.

00:14:45.240 And in this statement,

00:14:46.140 he basically seeds everything

00:14:48.740 that the people were saying about him.

00:14:51.220 He says,

00:14:51.820 there's nothing he's cared more about

00:14:53.560 than the well-being of students,

00:14:55.020 faculty, and staff,

00:14:56.040 the pursuit of the university's academic mission,

00:14:58.300 and the betterment of society.

00:15:00.200 It was a responsibility I took seriously,

00:15:02.660 but one I did not uphold recently.

00:15:05.120 He says,

00:15:05.780 Well, I do not support violence of any kind.

00:15:08.540 I understand how my actions created questions

00:15:10.760 about who I am and what I believe in.

00:15:13.180 To be clear,

00:15:13.940 I support Black Lives Matter

00:15:15.540 and I support the deracialization 1.00

00:15:17.480 of our educational institutions

00:15:19.160 and our country.

00:15:20.100 But I accept that in liking

00:15:21.900 these social media posts,

00:15:23.540 I damaged what I support

00:15:25.040 and that I hurt people.

00:15:26.600 I wholeheartedly apologize to them,

00:15:28.520 particularly to the students,

00:15:30.140 faculty, and staff of UBC.

00:15:32.340 He says racism is real

00:15:33.540 and he wants to be a part of the solution.

00:15:35.060 So this is not a guy

00:15:36.640 whose full-time job and livelihood

00:15:38.300 was being the chair of the board.

00:15:39.800 Like all of these boards,

00:15:40.800 he's got another job, another career,

00:15:42.520 and I think it was probably easy

00:15:44.040 for him to walk back.

00:15:46.720 But when you look at the response to this,

00:15:49.440 this is where I go down the road

00:15:51.000 of thinking this isn't just a resignation

00:15:53.160 that's entirely in his hands.

00:15:55.060 Because the university threw him

00:15:56.660 under the bus right away.

00:15:58.140 The government threw him under the bus.

00:16:00.260 The advanced education minister in BC

00:16:02.960 said that, you know,

00:16:04.560 government and UBC are deeply committed

00:16:06.560 to inclusion, justice, and equality for all.

00:16:10.220 The university gave what I thought

00:16:12.280 was a horrendous statement

00:16:13.760 saying that it's been deeply hurtful

00:16:17.200 to members of our community

00:16:18.480 and UBC has zero tolerance for racism

00:16:21.280 and recognizes that real harm

00:16:23.480 is created from both overt

00:16:25.040 and structural racism.

00:16:27.520 No one has said

00:16:28.620 what the racist part is though.

00:16:30.460 Is it racist that he likes Donald Trump

00:16:33.460 or liked a tweet

00:16:34.320 that was supporting Donald Trump?

00:16:36.120 Is it racist that he's critical

00:16:37.440 of Black Lives Matter?

00:16:38.900 Is it racist that he's critical

00:16:40.720 of protesters that are looting violently?

00:16:43.360 And I mean, again,

00:16:44.200 I'm going down the road they're doing.

00:16:45.580 He didn't actually say any of this.

00:16:48.040 Liking a tweet.

00:16:49.560 Liking a tweet is pretty much

00:16:51.220 the lowest bar imaginable.

00:16:53.700 So this is the epitome of thought crime

00:16:55.840 because what's being targeted here

00:16:57.420 is not what he said,

00:16:58.640 not what he did,

00:16:59.320 not what he stands for,

00:17:00.380 but a tweet that he might have

00:17:01.920 resonated with or supported

00:17:03.300 if that's even the case.

00:17:04.820 Some people just like tweets

00:17:06.060 to bookmark them.

00:17:07.300 He had said in an interview

00:17:08.360 with the student newspaper at UBC

00:17:10.800 that he didn't know

00:17:11.580 his Twitter account was public.

00:17:13.060 So, I mean, this is like

00:17:14.120 an OK Boomer moment

00:17:15.500 if ever there was one.

00:17:17.240 But he's absolutely said

00:17:19.900 and done nothing.

00:17:21.200 And now he's been,

00:17:22.320 he's lost this position.

00:17:23.780 He's been branded a racist.

00:17:25.480 And even CBC,

00:17:26.960 for whatever problems you might have,

00:17:28.980 should know better

00:17:30.120 than to be this irresponsible

00:17:31.840 as to just accept racism,

00:17:35.680 accept the premise,

00:17:36.880 put it in the headline,

00:17:37.840 put it in the lead

00:17:38.460 without articulating what it was.

00:17:40.660 And maybe they're parroting it

00:17:42.560 from the UBC student group,

00:17:44.980 Students Against Bigotry,

00:17:46.000 because they said

00:17:46.960 in one of their tweets

00:17:48.760 to tear down this guy,

00:17:50.520 does he support

00:17:51.600 the white supremacist

00:17:52.980 in the White House

00:17:54.120 and his calls for violence?

00:17:56.100 So to UBC students

00:17:57.880 against bigotry,

00:17:59.180 you're racist

00:17:59.840 if you support Donald Trump.

00:18:01.440 Well, I hate to break it to you,

00:18:02.640 but that's pretty much

00:18:03.320 half the United States of America

00:18:04.900 and a pretty good chunk

00:18:06.260 of Canadians as well

00:18:07.260 that supports the guy

00:18:08.260 who's the leader

00:18:08.880 of the free world.

00:18:09.760 So you can't say

00:18:10.760 that support for Donald Trump,

00:18:12.300 if this guy even supports Trump,

00:18:14.240 and I have no idea,

00:18:15.940 is tantamount to racism.

00:18:18.440 But the cancel wars,

00:18:19.880 the bar keeps getting

00:18:21.140 lower and lower and lower.

00:18:22.900 And a lot of people

00:18:23.620 are jumping up and down

00:18:24.600 on this guy saying,

00:18:25.760 well, he shouldn't have rolled over.

00:18:27.160 He shouldn't have apologized.

00:18:28.640 Let me tell you something.

00:18:29.640 If you have been

00:18:30.280 in the mob's crosshairs,

00:18:32.160 you would understand

00:18:33.460 that there is an entirely

00:18:35.200 reasonable proposition

00:18:36.340 that you think

00:18:37.120 this destruction of my life,

00:18:39.080 of my life's work,

00:18:39.900 of my reputation,

00:18:40.520 it's going to end

00:18:42.040 if I apologize and move on.

00:18:44.480 I understand

00:18:45.160 that thought process.

00:18:46.800 Now, it doesn't work.

00:18:47.920 As we see,

00:18:49.040 now they're jumping up and down

00:18:50.500 trying to get him cancelled

00:18:51.840 from every other board position

00:18:53.280 and every other job he has.

00:18:54.780 So it's not like it's successful.

00:18:57.000 But I get it.

00:18:57.880 And I'm not going to

00:18:58.660 accuse this guy of rolling over

00:19:00.880 even if he does set

00:19:02.940 the right side

00:19:05.500 of these cancel wars back a bit

00:19:07.260 by just giving in.

00:19:09.100 But now he goes down,

00:19:10.640 he's cemented.

00:19:11.400 When you Google his name,

00:19:12.840 you're going to see

00:19:13.900 the word racist.

00:19:15.340 And it's unchallenged,

00:19:16.560 it's unexplained,

00:19:17.440 but most people

00:19:18.340 aren't going to parse

00:19:19.000 that CBC story

00:19:20.140 and see,

00:19:20.720 okay, well, wait,

00:19:21.760 where is the racism?

00:19:22.980 And they don't describe it.

00:19:24.300 I've read through

00:19:24.820 the story three times.

00:19:25.800 They do not describe

00:19:26.660 what it is he said

00:19:27.740 that they identify as racist.

00:19:30.100 It's either support for Trump,

00:19:32.100 criticism of Black Lives Matter,

00:19:33.900 or criticism

00:19:35.420 of Black Lives Matter protesters.

00:19:37.500 Either way,

00:19:38.580 there is a case to be made

00:19:39.840 that you can make

00:19:40.400 any of those comments

00:19:41.240 without having

00:19:42.100 a racist bone in your body

00:19:43.520 and even have a leg

00:19:44.600 to stand on in doing so.

00:19:45.940 And it's not articulated.

00:19:47.900 And there's a huge danger

00:19:49.280 in this.

00:19:50.600 Same as far right.

00:19:52.600 Far right's another one.

00:19:53.700 CBC uses that in the headline.

00:19:55.620 What's far right?

00:19:56.720 I mean,

00:19:56.920 True North during

00:19:57.720 the last federal election

00:19:59.020 was called far right

00:20:00.160 by one news outlet

00:20:02.320 that I can't,

00:20:03.380 I won't tell you who it was,

00:20:04.320 but it rhymes

00:20:04.680 with Shmuffington Schmost.

00:20:06.140 And we actually challenged it.

00:20:08.280 Not because we care

00:20:09.200 what the Shmuffington Schmost, 0.91

00:20:10.960 I think that's what I called it,

00:20:11.900 thinks about us,

00:20:13.060 but because you cannot

00:20:14.300 let these things

00:20:15.720 that are to the writer

00:20:16.920 subtle,

00:20:18.200 but are not subtle

00:20:19.160 to the reader.

00:20:19.760 You cannot let them stand.

00:20:21.480 And we asked,

00:20:22.360 Hey,

00:20:22.640 why are you saying far right?

00:20:24.260 Give the explanation.

00:20:25.940 And they don't defend it.

00:20:27.160 They just quietly change it

00:20:28.480 because they know

00:20:29.820 that what they're trying to do

00:20:31.400 is they're trying to deny you

00:20:33.840 the right to define yourself

00:20:36.060 by using very loaded terms,

00:20:38.560 loaded terms

00:20:39.240 that really take down

00:20:40.980 your respect

00:20:41.700 in the eyes of a reader

00:20:42.680 that's not connected

00:20:43.500 with what you're doing.

00:20:45.180 And this is why

00:20:45.820 you need to push back against it.

00:20:47.560 Whether you're a Ben Mulroney,

00:20:49.280 a Michael Korenberg,

00:20:50.600 a True North,

00:20:51.300 whoever you are,

00:20:52.780 this culture

00:20:53.700 is not going to lose

00:20:56.360 if people don't push back against it.

00:20:59.140 We've got to take a break.

00:21:00.120 When we come back,

00:21:00.860 more of The Andrew Lawton Show

00:21:02.040 here on True North.

00:21:04.460 You're tuned in

00:21:05.620 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:21:09.880 We are back.

00:21:10.940 This is The Andrew Lawton Show

00:21:12.340 on True North.

00:21:13.620 And you may remember

00:21:14.320 we covered earlier on in the year

00:21:16.600 that horrific, horrific attack,

00:21:18.440 the most deadly mass shooting

00:21:19.800 in Canadian history

00:21:20.960 in and around

00:21:22.200 Portapique, Nova Scotia.

00:21:24.240 And so many questions

00:21:26.060 still from this.

00:21:27.200 I know that the gun control narrative

00:21:28.720 was one that became

00:21:29.700 very relevant

00:21:30.800 with the Liberals

00:21:31.980 ramming gun control legislation

00:21:34.120 that wouldn't have done anything

00:21:35.640 to stop this.

00:21:36.680 But now there are still

00:21:37.780 a lot of questions

00:21:38.520 about the motivation

00:21:39.820 behind this attack.

00:21:42.340 And if you believe

00:21:43.140 that understanding motivation

00:21:44.440 can help to prevent

00:21:45.320 future such attacks,

00:21:47.000 these questions are significant.

00:21:48.400 A McLean story,

00:21:50.260 the Nova Scotia shooter case

00:21:51.840 has hallmarks

00:21:52.540 of an undercover operation.

00:21:55.000 They have a bunch

00:21:56.080 of anonymous sources

00:21:57.060 in policing and banking

00:21:58.460 saying that

00:21:59.940 the fact that the killer

00:22:01.180 was able to withdraw

00:22:02.220 $475,000

00:22:03.960 in cash

00:22:05.120 from Brinks Banking

00:22:07.060 which does not at all

00:22:08.480 serve consumers directly

00:22:10.940 is typical

00:22:12.460 of how the RCMP

00:22:13.800 would pay informants

00:22:15.340 or agents.

00:22:16.060 Now there's a lot

00:22:16.580 of speculation

00:22:17.160 but they do lay out

00:22:19.140 some facts

00:22:19.760 of that type of banking

00:22:21.380 and that amount of money

00:22:22.620 that does make it

00:22:24.120 a little bit

00:22:24.720 of a curious transaction.

00:22:26.540 Of course then

00:22:27.140 in response to this

00:22:27.980 you have the RCMP

00:22:29.260 telling the Toronto Star

00:22:30.540 that fears about

00:22:32.140 the pandemic

00:22:32.780 were what made

00:22:34.240 the killer want to

00:22:35.140 take out all his money

00:22:36.200 and that was that.

00:22:37.740 It was no relationship

00:22:38.720 with the RCMP.

00:22:39.760 He wasn't an operative,

00:22:40.940 an agent,

00:22:41.500 an informant

00:22:42.360 or anything like that.

00:22:43.740 I want to make sense

00:22:44.660 of this.

00:22:45.200 Joining me now

00:22:45.840 is True North fellow

00:22:46.780 and former RCMP officer

00:22:48.420 Leo Knight.

00:22:49.500 Leo, good to talk to you sir.

00:22:50.560 Thanks for coming on today.

00:22:51.820 Good morning Andrew.

00:22:53.600 So when you saw

00:22:54.900 this initial McLean story

00:22:56.620 is your response

00:22:57.440 this is insane

00:22:58.320 or did it have

00:22:59.360 the ring of truth to you?

00:23:00.560 I think

00:23:02.380 and as I said

00:23:03.780 to you

00:23:04.300 and a couple

00:23:04.800 of other folks

00:23:05.540 at True North

00:23:06.280 I said it was

00:23:06.960 wild speculation.

00:23:08.820 I haven't changed

00:23:09.900 that opinion at all.

00:23:12.660 For example

00:23:13.780 he apparently

00:23:15.340 withdrew something

00:23:16.280 in the neighbourhood

00:23:16.880 of $435,000

00:23:18.920 in his brink withdrawal.

00:23:21.700 That's a substantial

00:23:22.680 amount of money

00:23:23.560 but in reality

00:23:25.020 it's not that much

00:23:26.760 in terms of overall volume.

00:23:28.620 You could easily

00:23:29.060 set it into a hockey bag

00:23:31.680 and it would weigh about

00:23:32.620 I don't know

00:23:33.180 11 pounds, 12 pounds

00:23:34.620 something in that neighbourhood.

00:23:36.400 So it's easily transportable.

00:23:38.240 That's sort of thing one.

00:23:40.880 Thing two

00:23:41.720 is we don't know

00:23:42.520 where the source

00:23:43.240 of the money was.

00:23:44.720 Did he cash in

00:23:46.780 some of his lucrative properties?

00:23:48.700 We know he had

00:23:49.440 almost $500,000

00:23:50.940 in RRSP savings.

00:23:53.740 Did he cash that in?

00:23:55.000 And we don't know

00:23:55.820 and the banking records

00:23:56.860 are just not open to us

00:23:58.460 to try and ascertain

00:24:00.660 any of those answers.

00:24:03.460 Finally

00:24:04.060 if it was a

00:24:05.640 situation

00:24:07.280 of a confidential informant

00:24:09.220 I would have expected

00:24:11.160 that information

00:24:12.220 might have come out

00:24:13.060 a whole lot sooner

00:24:14.220 than this.

00:24:15.540 There's no question

00:24:16.800 that

00:24:17.340 this guy had

00:24:20.480 as a friend

00:24:21.360 the so-called

00:24:22.800 shadowy guy

00:24:23.720 Peter Ellen Griffin

00:24:24.860 who was connected

00:24:26.100 to organized crime

00:24:27.240 and had done a stretch

00:24:28.100 of prison in Alberta

00:24:29.340 and Griffin was actually

00:24:31.820 the guy who cut

00:24:32.900 and provided

00:24:33.920 the decals

00:24:34.700 for the

00:24:35.380 official RCMP

00:24:37.640 look

00:24:38.180 on Workman's car

00:24:39.780 and there's no question

00:24:42.040 Griffin's as shady

00:24:43.860 as it gets

00:24:44.700 but

00:24:45.660 and here

00:24:46.540 I will insert

00:24:47.440 a huge but

00:24:48.600 for him to be getting

00:24:50.480 that kind of money

00:24:51.640 from the RCMP

00:24:52.660 he would have had

00:24:53.700 to have been

00:24:54.260 an integral

00:24:55.500 piece of the composition

00:24:58.040 in terms of being

00:24:59.300 a major player

00:25:00.320 as a confidential informant.

00:25:02.780 The Nova Scotia

00:25:03.680 Hells Angels chapter

00:25:05.940 such as it is

00:25:07.000 is still

00:25:09.060 in its fledgling stages.

00:25:11.500 It had a chapter

00:25:12.600 a number of years ago

00:25:13.580 back in the 90s

00:25:14.640 but that chapter closed

00:25:16.240 after a series

00:25:17.720 of

00:25:18.160 completely booted

00:25:20.420 unprofessional

00:25:21.380 murders.

00:25:23.440 The Quebec 0.53

00:25:24.000 Nomads chapter

00:25:26.240 took them over

00:25:27.080 and disbanded

00:25:28.020 the chapter

00:25:29.120 and took away

00:25:29.960 their patches

00:25:30.580 and that sort of thing.

00:25:32.180 What remains now

00:25:33.260 is actually

00:25:34.000 rising from the ashes

00:25:36.640 if you will

00:25:38.520 from a series

00:25:39.220 of puppet gangs

00:25:40.160 that were in place

00:25:41.200 to handle the drug dealing

00:25:42.580 and stuff like that.

00:25:44.640 But they're in no

00:25:45.980 way, shape,

00:25:48.160 or form

00:25:48.660 in the big leagues

00:25:49.660 the way the Quebec

00:25:51.180 Nomads

00:25:51.820 or the BC

00:25:52.780 chapters

00:25:53.820 of the

00:25:54.800 Hells Angels

00:25:55.540 or anything

00:25:56.220 along those lines.

00:25:57.440 They're

00:25:57.740 big players

00:25:59.820 who are trying

00:26:00.420 to get into

00:26:00.880 the big times.

00:26:01.840 So I can't see

00:26:02.740 the RCMP

00:26:03.560 paying that kind

00:26:04.680 of money

00:26:05.100 especially

00:26:06.260 in as small

00:26:07.040 a jurisdiction

00:26:07.740 as Nova Scotia

00:26:09.000 for a confidential

00:26:11.000 informant.

00:26:11.720 That's just my opinion.

00:26:13.180 I base that

00:26:14.020 on no

00:26:14.700 specific information

00:26:17.500 other than

00:26:18.060 my own speculation.

00:26:20.180 One of the things

00:26:21.220 that the McLean's article

00:26:22.400 did that I don't know

00:26:23.720 how exactly

00:26:24.680 I feel about it.

00:26:25.840 They have this paragraph

00:26:27.220 about the RCMP

00:26:28.260 operations manual

00:26:29.460 which they say

00:26:30.240 authorizes the police

00:26:31.560 to mislead

00:26:32.440 anyone and everyone

00:26:33.600 with the exception

00:26:34.280 of the courts

00:26:34.940 to conceal the identity

00:26:36.200 of confidential

00:26:36.960 informants.

00:26:37.680 So then

00:26:37.920 what that does

00:26:39.300 is when the RCMP

00:26:40.560 tells people

00:26:41.680 like they did

00:26:42.180 to the Toronto Star

00:26:42.940 that it had no

00:26:43.600 relationship

00:26:44.180 with Wartman

00:26:45.880 this paragraph

00:26:47.200 tends to make people

00:26:48.340 oh but well

00:26:48.900 you know

00:26:49.260 the manual says

00:26:50.220 they could lie

00:26:50.780 about that.

00:26:51.660 What's your take

00:26:52.240 on that aspect

00:26:53.220 of it?

00:26:53.740 I mean if they

00:26:54.240 were concealing

00:26:55.080 this

00:26:55.520 would they just

00:26:56.680 keep concealing

00:26:57.400 that?

00:26:58.680 Well they would

00:26:59.920 Andrew.

00:27:00.600 The part of

00:27:02.080 dealing with

00:27:02.580 a confidential

00:27:03.180 informant

00:27:04.060 is that

00:27:04.500 that person's

00:27:05.780 safety

00:27:06.140 is very

00:27:06.620 life

00:27:07.100 is entrusted

00:27:08.300 in your hands

00:27:09.200 and depends

00:27:09.860 upon you

00:27:10.480 to keep

00:27:11.080 to keep

00:27:11.940 a secret

00:27:12.440 as it were.

00:27:14.560 Reference

00:27:15.240 to that

00:27:15.720 particular

00:27:16.300 paragraph

00:27:16.840 that refers

00:27:17.660 more to

00:27:18.500 giving

00:27:20.580 an informant

00:27:22.480 or an agent

00:27:23.360 of the RCMP

00:27:24.280 a little bit

00:27:25.880 of carte blanche

00:27:26.700 to lie

00:27:27.920 to make

00:27:28.700 a dope deal

00:27:29.540 to buy

00:27:30.880 stolen property

00:27:31.840 or something

00:27:32.800 along those lines

00:27:33.920 to maintain

00:27:34.700 a cover

00:27:35.260 and it

00:27:36.300 really means

00:27:36.960 no more

00:27:37.380 than that.

00:27:39.140 How common

00:27:40.320 are

00:27:40.880 because they

00:27:41.600 say confidential

00:27:42.440 informants

00:27:43.180 and agents

00:27:44.120 so these

00:27:45.260 are two

00:27:45.580 different things

00:27:46.220 here.

00:27:46.480 What's the

00:27:46.940 difference

00:27:47.220 between them?

00:27:49.300 If you give

00:27:50.380 me information

00:27:51.340 relative to

00:27:52.880 something that's

00:27:53.500 going on

00:27:54.220 that I'm

00:27:54.960 interested in

00:27:55.860 that makes

00:27:56.600 you an 0.64

00:27:56.940 informant.

00:27:57.560 if you

00:27:58.420 offer to

00:27:59.480 introduce

00:28:00.440 me to

00:28:01.420 that

00:28:02.380 individual

00:28:03.040 as part

00:28:04.760 of a

00:28:05.040 UCO

00:28:05.560 or undercover

00:28:06.180 operation

00:28:07.120 that makes

00:28:08.060 you an 0.64

00:28:08.420 agent

00:28:08.780 because you're

00:28:09.460 doing something

00:28:10.320 specific.

00:28:11.940 You're taking

00:28:12.340 an action.

00:28:14.320 And the

00:28:14.880 information that

00:28:15.840 you provided

00:28:16.360 a few moments

00:28:17.160 ago about

00:28:17.720 just the

00:28:18.360 amount of

00:28:19.200 money that

00:28:19.640 would be at

00:28:20.040 stake there

00:28:20.640 that's still

00:28:22.100 the same

00:28:22.540 if he were

00:28:23.200 an agent

00:28:23.720 instead of

00:28:24.420 a confidential

00:28:25.120 informant

00:28:25.720 theoretically,

00:28:26.120 correct?

00:28:27.380 In theory

00:28:27.940 an agent

00:28:28.460 would make

00:28:28.920 more money

00:28:29.480 because he's

00:28:30.120 taking more

00:28:30.980 risks upon

00:28:32.800 his life.

00:28:33.340 But would we

00:28:33.740 be talking

00:28:34.160 about half

00:28:34.620 a million

00:28:34.960 dollars for

00:28:35.780 what we know

00:28:36.740 about the

00:28:37.220 circumstances

00:28:37.840 so far?

00:28:39.560 I don't

00:28:40.420 think so.

00:28:41.120 Certainly

00:28:41.420 not in

00:28:41.920 Nova Scotia.

00:28:43.200 The one

00:28:43.620 case I can

00:28:44.340 put to it

00:28:45.120 that's sort

00:28:45.760 of an

00:28:46.140 equivalent

00:28:46.640 involved an

00:28:47.500 agent who

00:28:48.160 is a

00:28:48.540 bouncer

00:28:48.920 in a

00:28:49.300 strip bar

00:28:49.920 working for

00:28:51.680 a Hell's

00:28:52.920 Angel

00:28:53.220 member

00:28:54.160 singular

00:28:54.980 specifically

00:28:56.720 and that

00:28:58.040 guy was

00:28:58.480 paid a

00:28:58.900 fraction

00:28:59.300 of that

00:28:59.880 amount

00:29:00.260 of money.

00:29:01.120 Now,

00:29:01.520 granted,

00:29:01.920 that was

00:29:02.100 a few

00:29:02.400 years ago

00:29:02.980 but still

00:29:03.660 I think

00:29:04.260 it shows

00:29:04.720 that in

00:29:05.420 the big

00:29:06.700 leagues of

00:29:07.360 Ontario

00:29:08.000 or British

00:29:08.820 Columbia

00:29:09.400 or Quebec

00:29:11.020 it's probably

00:29:12.520 worth something.

00:29:14.700 In the

00:29:15.420 small town

00:29:16.380 I don't want

00:29:18.600 to say

00:29:18.880 bush league

00:29:19.480 but say

00:29:19.920 the

00:29:20.640 environic

00:29:22.500 starting

00:29:23.060 up

00:29:23.540 of

00:29:24.540 Hell's

00:29:24.980 Angels

00:29:25.260 chapter

00:29:25.780 in

00:29:26.300 Nova

00:29:26.580 Scotia

00:29:27.200 certainly

00:29:28.100 not worth

00:29:28.600 that

00:29:28.780 kind

00:29:29.000 of

00:29:29.120 money.

00:29:30.520 With all

00:29:31.260 due

00:29:31.500 respect

00:29:31.840 to your

00:29:32.180 former

00:29:32.480 colleagues

00:29:33.040 at the

00:29:33.500 RCMP

00:29:34.020 one

00:29:34.620 frustration

00:29:35.360 that a lot

00:29:35.820 of people

00:29:36.120 have had

00:29:36.600 is that

00:29:37.120 police

00:29:37.460 are by

00:29:38.360 default

00:29:39.000 tight-lipped

00:29:39.600 on things

00:29:40.380 and I'd

00:29:40.880 say even

00:29:41.280 to the

00:29:41.540 point

00:29:41.740 where they

00:29:42.020 don't

00:29:42.200 have

00:29:42.460 to be

00:29:42.740 and

00:29:42.920 in a

00:29:43.600 lot

00:29:43.740 of

00:29:43.840 cases

00:29:44.140 when

00:29:44.340 questions

00:29:44.740 have been

00:29:45.020 posed

00:29:45.300 to the

00:29:45.560 RCMP

00:29:46.020 they say

00:29:46.560 it's early

00:29:46.980 we can't

00:29:47.480 comment

00:29:47.860 it's early

00:29:48.400 it's an

00:29:48.720 ongoing

00:29:48.980 investigation

00:29:49.500 we can't

00:29:50.100 comment

00:29:50.400 I found

00:29:51.360 it interesting

00:29:51.880 though that

00:29:52.200 when this

00:29:52.520 story came

00:29:53.220 out about

00:29:54.620 any sort

00:29:55.640 of potential

00:29:56.180 relationship

00:29:56.860 and again

00:29:57.300 it is all

00:29:58.060 speculative

00:29:58.600 the RCMP

00:29:59.720 was very

00:30:00.260 quick to

00:30:00.760 say

00:30:01.000 you know

00:30:01.540 maybe he

00:30:02.240 withdrew the

00:30:02.740 money for

00:30:03.180 pandemic

00:30:03.640 related reasons

00:30:04.580 so I did

00:30:05.440 find it

00:30:05.780 interesting

00:30:06.180 that that

00:30:06.940 sort of

00:30:07.300 self-preservation

00:30:08.180 mentality

00:30:08.760 seemed to

00:30:09.280 kick in

00:30:09.740 from the

00:30:10.440 RCMP

00:30:10.900 comms

00:30:11.380 officials

00:30:11.780 here

00:30:12.100 and then

00:30:12.520 they started

00:30:13.040 speculating

00:30:13.620 about what

00:30:14.020 his motivations

00:30:14.620 might have

00:30:15.100 been for

00:30:15.820 withdrawing

00:30:16.380 the money

00:30:16.700 it seemed

00:30:17.180 like to

00:30:17.540 deflect

00:30:17.800 the attention

00:30:18.320 off of

00:30:18.760 them

00:30:19.040 well it's

00:30:19.860 classic

00:30:20.460 deflect and

00:30:22.040 spin

00:30:22.400 isn't it

00:30:23.100 I'm not

00:30:24.400 going to

00:30:24.660 apologize

00:30:25.220 and certainly

00:30:26.000 don't you

00:30:27.260 have to

00:30:27.680 make any

00:30:28.340 apologies

00:30:29.800 for any

00:30:30.400 allegations

00:30:31.060 towards the

00:30:31.780 RCMP's

00:30:32.780 media relations

00:30:34.340 strategy

00:30:34.960 it's abysmal

00:30:35.900 and it's been

00:30:36.440 abysmal for

00:30:37.200 several decades

00:30:38.140 that has

00:30:39.420 clearly hasn't

00:30:40.560 changed

00:30:41.020 the RCMP

00:30:42.840 has always

00:30:43.720 been

00:30:44.120 economical

00:30:45.160 with

00:30:46.460 information

00:30:47.080 that's

00:30:47.500 just

00:30:47.880 the nature

00:30:49.640 of the

00:30:50.060 beast

00:30:50.440 trying to

00:30:51.800 pry

00:30:52.080 information

00:30:52.820 out of

00:30:53.200 them

00:30:53.360 even if

00:30:53.940 you're

00:30:54.160 within

00:30:54.480 even if

00:30:55.180 you're

00:30:55.420 working

00:30:55.700 with the

00:30:56.300 RCMP

00:30:56.880 on a

00:30:57.480 mutually

00:30:58.480 interested

00:30:59.280 project

00:30:59.820 it's still

00:31:00.820 hard to

00:31:01.280 get

00:31:01.440 information

00:31:02.120 everybody

00:31:02.980 is so

00:31:03.520 protective

00:31:04.140 of what

00:31:04.680 they view

00:31:05.640 as their

00:31:06.060 own

00:31:06.320 possession

00:31:06.980 or their

00:31:07.400 own

00:31:07.620 domain

00:31:08.140 or their

00:31:08.520 own

00:31:08.740 fiefdom

00:31:09.280 they don't

00:31:10.100 want to

00:31:10.340 let it

00:31:10.600 out

00:31:10.860 and you

00:31:12.240 see that

00:31:12.800 in cases

00:31:13.340 like this

00:31:13.980 where the

00:31:14.680 media and

00:31:15.340 the public

00:31:15.820 is clamoring

00:31:16.460 I mean

00:31:16.720 22 people

00:31:17.700 were murdered

00:31:18.300 by one

00:31:20.060 guy in a

00:31:21.380 single night

00:31:22.160 that demands

00:31:24.600 an explanation

00:31:25.420 and such as

00:31:26.540 we've had

00:31:27.040 from the

00:31:27.500 RCMP

00:31:28.100 in my view

00:31:29.100 is woefully

00:31:30.700 lacking

00:31:31.220 do you think

00:31:33.240 that in a

00:31:33.660 case like

00:31:34.200 this I mean

00:31:34.680 the old saying

00:31:35.280 that dead men

00:31:35.880 tell no tales

00:31:36.660 do you think

00:31:37.220 that the

00:31:38.160 questions will

00:31:38.920 ever truly

00:31:39.520 be answered

00:31:40.120 in a case

00:31:40.800 like this

00:31:41.300 that's the

00:31:41.660 problem

00:31:42.020 with these

00:31:42.400 so-called

00:31:42.820 lone wolf

00:31:43.520 sort of

00:31:44.160 attacks

00:31:44.600 is that

00:31:45.180 you aren't

00:31:45.560 looking at

00:31:46.080 a conspiracy

00:31:46.640 of sorts

00:31:47.380 where you

00:31:47.680 can start

00:31:48.140 finding

00:31:48.720 individual

00:31:49.180 people

00:31:49.640 that will

00:31:50.240 give you

00:31:50.900 pieces of

00:31:51.320 the puzzle

00:31:51.660 if it's

00:31:51.960 just one

00:31:52.340 person

00:31:52.740 sure maybe

00:31:53.320 you can

00:31:53.700 tell a bit

00:31:54.460 of a story

00:31:54.960 about that

00:31:55.380 person

00:31:55.800 and everyone

00:31:56.220 said they

00:31:56.680 might have

00:31:56.940 had issues

00:31:57.480 or red

00:31:57.900 flags

00:31:58.280 but do you

00:31:59.080 think you'll

00:31:59.440 ever be

00:31:59.820 able to

00:32:00.200 truly get

00:32:00.820 the full

00:32:01.340 picture in

00:32:02.020 something like

00:32:02.580 this

00:32:02.960 well I

00:32:04.200 think so

00:32:04.840 the RCMP

00:32:06.660 keep their

00:32:07.540 lips buttoned

00:32:08.540 for so long

00:32:09.920 there's going

00:32:11.040 to be a

00:32:12.020 number of

00:32:12.680 coroner's

00:32:13.260 inquest

00:32:13.700 coming up

00:32:14.380 into the

00:32:14.800 deaths of

00:32:15.240 22 people

00:32:16.120 not to

00:32:16.600 mention

00:32:16.840 Wordman

00:32:17.400 himself

00:32:17.960 the coroner

00:32:19.340 in Nova

00:32:19.840 Scotia

00:32:20.520 will be

00:32:21.540 looking very

00:32:22.420 specifically

00:32:23.580 at causation

00:32:25.140 factors

00:32:25.740 etc

00:32:26.200 and the

00:32:27.920 one thing

00:32:28.540 that is

00:32:29.700 very very

00:32:30.240 hard to

00:32:30.880 do

00:32:31.260 at that

00:32:32.180 point in

00:32:32.760 time

00:32:33.100 when you're

00:32:33.620 laying

00:32:34.280 everything

00:32:34.840 bare in

00:32:35.300 a coroner's

00:32:35.920 inquest

00:32:36.420 is to

00:32:37.120 try and

00:32:37.580 hide

00:32:37.860 something

00:32:38.300 and

00:32:39.060 while I've

00:32:41.640 seen it

00:32:42.020 done in

00:32:42.420 the past

00:32:42.940 usually what

00:32:43.600 happens is

00:32:44.240 won't be

00:32:44.740 tied to

00:32:45.120 anybody who

00:32:45.720 tries to

00:32:46.460 hide something

00:32:47.480 from the

00:32:47.900 coroner

00:32:48.360 so just to

00:32:50.400 wrap up that

00:32:51.360 initial sort of

00:32:52.140 McLean story

00:32:52.820 here the RCMP

00:32:53.800 said that

00:32:55.080 it can confirm

00:32:56.080 that the RCMP

00:32:56.960 was not the

00:32:57.820 source of those

00:32:58.520 funds as

00:32:59.600 incorrectly

00:33:00.200 assumed in

00:33:00.940 recent media

00:33:01.620 articles unquote

00:33:02.560 so do you

00:33:03.020 think that

00:33:03.620 let me

00:33:05.620 ask the

00:33:06.320 question in

00:33:06.760 two ways

00:33:07.220 here for

00:33:07.560 starters do

00:33:08.120 you think

00:33:08.420 that you

00:33:08.980 know that's

00:33:09.420 that's it

00:33:09.820 that should

00:33:10.220 sort of end

00:33:10.760 it or the

00:33:11.900 other side

00:33:12.420 of that do

00:33:12.880 you think

00:33:13.280 that the

00:33:14.120 RCMP by

00:33:14.880 being so

00:33:15.340 unequivocal

00:33:16.020 and so

00:33:16.420 clear in

00:33:16.880 its terms

00:33:17.420 they're

00:33:17.900 basically

00:33:18.360 guaranteeing

00:33:19.120 there's

00:33:19.360 nothing to

00:33:19.780 hide they

00:33:20.160 have no

00:33:20.640 relationship

00:33:21.360 with this

00:33:21.820 guy

00:33:22.100 again I

00:33:24.680 harbor no

00:33:25.440 illusions about

00:33:26.420 the veracity

00:33:27.140 of anything

00:33:27.720 that's being

00:33:28.280 put forth in

00:33:29.100 public we

00:33:30.200 don't know

00:33:30.660 where the

00:33:31.040 investigation is

00:33:32.140 going we

00:33:32.720 don't know

00:33:33.340 if the

00:33:34.860 police are

00:33:35.420 trying to put

00:33:36.000 out a red

00:33:36.600 herring for

00:33:37.260 whatever reason

00:33:38.100 to try and

00:33:38.820 deflect attention

00:33:39.800 from something

00:33:40.640 we just don't

00:33:41.800 know and

00:33:42.820 and as I

00:33:43.960 say it's all

00:33:45.080 speculation it's

00:33:46.240 wild speculation

00:33:47.260 and perhaps

00:33:48.880 some of it's

00:33:49.560 even educated

00:33:50.380 speculation but

00:33:51.480 it's still

00:33:51.880 speculation

00:33:52.580 Andrew

00:33:53.000 I think that's

00:33:54.660 a great

00:33:55.100 distinction

00:33:55.620 Leo Knight

00:33:56.460 True North

00:33:56.880 fellow and

00:33:57.540 former police

00:33:58.200 officer thank

00:33:58.840 you so much

00:33:59.520 for coming on

00:34:00.020 Leo really

00:34:00.440 appreciate it

00:34:01.160 you're very

00:34:01.920 welcome even

00:34:02.560 though it's

00:34:02.960 early

00:34:03.260 yeah that's

00:34:05.320 the Leo's

00:34:05.940 out on the

00:34:06.240 west coast so

00:34:06.820 he's doing us

00:34:07.340 a real courtesy

00:34:08.120 by joining us

00:34:08.800 at this time

00:34:09.260 thanks again

00:34:09.800 all right take

00:34:10.740 care you know

00:34:11.720 I will say you

00:34:12.320 can kind of see

00:34:13.140 how conspiracy

00:34:14.120 theories take

00:34:14.960 hold because

00:34:15.540 when I first

00:34:16.080 read that

00:34:16.800 McLean story

00:34:17.540 you know the

00:34:17.980 first thing that

00:34:18.720 jumped out at

00:34:19.160 me is unnamed

00:34:20.000 source unnamed

00:34:20.720 source unnamed

00:34:21.380 source in

00:34:21.780 banking unnamed

00:34:22.480 source in

00:34:22.920 law enforcement

00:34:23.560 no one with

00:34:24.820 a connection to

00:34:25.480 the case so

00:34:26.120 it was purely

00:34:27.160 based on well

00:34:28.620 police would pay

00:34:29.700 someone this way

00:34:30.520 the guy wouldn't

00:34:31.440 have access to

00:34:32.160 the Brinks

00:34:32.500 Brinks banking 1.00

00:34:33.220 unless it was

00:34:34.540 coming through

00:34:35.000 this and and

00:34:36.440 that was all

00:34:36.960 fine but then

00:34:38.080 you you read

00:34:39.100 the other side

00:34:39.740 and it's like

00:34:40.000 well hang on

00:34:40.640 for starters what

00:34:41.600 would he have

00:34:42.060 had that was so

00:34:42.920 valuable that's

00:34:43.840 the the big

00:34:44.580 thing what

00:34:44.960 information would

00:34:45.560 this guy have

00:34:45.960 had that was

00:34:46.360 worth half a

00:34:46.900 million dollars and

00:34:47.620 as Leo said

00:34:48.300 you know there

00:34:49.200 wasn't really

00:34:49.640 anything that has

00:34:50.340 come out so

00:34:50.960 far that would

00:34:52.020 suggest this guy

00:34:52.760 was anything other

00:34:53.400 than small time

00:34:54.200 if he was

00:34:55.180 connected with the

00:34:56.320 crime world at

00:34:57.080 all I mean

00:34:57.940 five hundred

00:34:58.420 thousand dollars

00:34:59.060 that would be

00:34:59.540 like terrorism

00:35:00.260 levels of

00:35:01.340 information this

00:35:02.780 guy again still

00:35:04.560 we don't know a

00:35:05.500 lot but this guy

00:35:06.300 didn't seem to

00:35:06.920 have any ties there

00:35:07.800 so you know but

00:35:09.920 but at the same

00:35:10.420 time you're like

00:35:10.940 okay something is

00:35:12.000 odd there something

00:35:13.060 doesn't add up and

00:35:14.140 I found it

00:35:14.580 interesting that the

00:35:15.840 police who I

00:35:16.440 mentioned earlier

00:35:17.000 are always so

00:35:17.620 tight-lipped and

00:35:18.280 they never want to

00:35:18.820 talk about anything

00:35:19.500 they never want to

00:35:20.140 speculate as to

00:35:20.940 motive when they're

00:35:22.140 facing criticisms and

00:35:23.640 scrutiny they're like

00:35:24.360 oh maybe he was

00:35:25.200 doing this and that

00:35:26.600 was that story that

00:35:27.460 you know he was just

00:35:28.300 concerned about what

00:35:29.440 the banking industry

00:35:30.220 would do with his

00:35:30.840 money with a

00:35:31.760 pandemic so he

00:35:32.520 decided to withdraw a

00:35:34.060 significant amount of

00:35:34.920 cash and the RCMP

00:35:35.880 said yeah we knew

00:35:36.600 about that that was

00:35:37.360 early on and then it

00:35:39.100 raises the question

00:35:39.720 okay if you knew

00:35:40.340 about it why didn't

00:35:41.740 you talk about it

00:35:42.620 why is it the media

00:35:43.640 that's uncovering

00:35:44.480 these details rather

00:35:45.780 than the people that

00:35:46.540 are supposed to be

00:35:47.240 briefing the public

00:35:48.080 and briefing the

00:35:48.780 media on these

00:35:50.120 details we've got to

00:35:51.180 take a break here when

00:35:51.920 we come back we'll

00:35:52.520 close things out here

00:35:53.360 on the Andrew

00:35:53.920 Lawton show stay

00:35:54.800 tuned you're tuned in

00:35:57.680 to the Andrew Lawton

00:35:58.900 show

00:35:59.260 never doubt that the

00:36:05.960 old boys club the

00:36:07.360 old cronies club can

00:36:08.640 do more than anyone

00:36:09.840 else in the world could

00:36:10.840 ever do in this case

00:36:11.900 a story in Black

00:36:12.960 Locks reporter

00:36:13.660 SNC Lavelland wins

00:36:15.120 6.8 million dollar

00:36:17.060 contracts despite

00:36:18.500 corruption despite

00:36:19.800 bribery despite

00:36:20.840 illegal activity

00:36:21.820 despite all of

00:36:23.140 these things despite

00:36:24.040 being in among the

00:36:25.960 most corrupt or

00:36:27.320 making Canada among

00:36:28.340 the most corrupt

00:36:28.940 nations in the world

00:36:30.480 so much so that the

00:36:31.720 world bank was even

00:36:32.740 like you know we'll

00:36:33.720 lend money to you

00:36:34.520 know African

00:36:34.900 dictatorships we don't

00:36:36.000 like this SNC

00:36:36.800 Lavelland thing they

00:36:38.340 are still getting

00:36:39.640 federal contracts the

00:36:40.840 country company agreed

00:36:41.760 to pay 1.9 million

00:36:43.200 dollars in fines under

00:36:44.360 the competition act

00:36:45.360 for rigging bids

00:36:47.160 on December 18th of

00:36:50.120 last year pleaded

00:36:50.860 guilty to fraud and

00:36:52.400 was fined 280 million

00:36:53.940 admitted that it paid

00:36:55.500 close to 50 million

00:36:56.580 dollars in bribes to

00:36:58.060 the son of Muammar

00:36:59.620 Gaddafi to win

00:37:00.400 construction contracts

00:37:01.480 and since then SNC

00:37:03.180 Lavelland has still

00:37:04.240 received almost 7

00:37:06.080 million dollar in

00:37:07.160 federal contracts

00:37:08.220 including one contract

00:37:09.780 that was awarded

00:37:10.880 according to the story

00:37:11.880 the day it admitted

00:37:13.040 to fraud so this is

00:37:15.100 now a company that

00:37:16.640 is still profiting

00:37:18.360 still profiting

00:37:19.460 despite its illegal

00:37:21.140 activity and you know

00:37:22.420 again when Justin

00:37:23.160 Trudeau says well you

00:37:24.020 know Quebec jobs are

00:37:25.100 more important than

00:37:26.240 you know standing up

00:37:27.540 for against corruption

00:37:28.860 and standing up for

00:37:29.800 the rule of law and

00:37:30.580 all of that you know

00:37:32.100 it's a very low bar if

00:37:33.900 we were to say okay

00:37:34.620 SNC Lavelland you have

00:37:35.960 surrendered your right

00:37:37.220 to do business with the

00:37:38.040 government we can't

00:37:38.760 shut you down if other

00:37:39.620 people want to trust

00:37:40.380 you with their money

00:37:40.860 that's fine but the

00:37:42.180 Canadian government is

00:37:43.040 not going to give

00:37:43.740 taxpayer money to you

00:37:45.060 and that was apparently

00:37:46.100 too much because oh

00:37:47.420 it's all about jobs and

00:37:48.560 it's interesting that you

00:37:49.520 know I'm all for economic

00:37:50.520 growth and development I

00:37:51.600 am truly I like jobs I

00:37:53.440 like robust economies but

00:37:55.160 you have to have a level

00:37:56.340 of integrity if you're

00:37:57.940 going to have any

00:37:58.720 credibility on other

00:37:59.840 things that you try to

00:38:00.820 do especially on human

00:38:02.280 rights grounds so

00:38:03.440 Justin Trudeau wants to

00:38:04.460 be the world's policeman he

00:38:05.700 wants to go around the

00:38:06.580 world and you know extol

00:38:08.100 Canadian values and all

00:38:09.320 of that stuff and impose

00:38:10.380 Canadian values even when

00:38:11.660 they're not wanted and a

00:38:13.000 load of good that did at

00:38:13.760 the United Nations by the

00:38:14.820 way meanwhile he's turning a

00:38:16.860 blind eye to a company

00:38:17.820 that's been putting tens of

00:38:19.320 million dollars into a

00:38:20.560 dictator's pockets the the

00:38:21.980 Gaddafi son the Gaddafi 0.99

00:38:24.480 son the Gaddafi regime the

00:38:25.940 Gaddafi family so I would 1.00

00:38:27.900 say yeah maybe it's time we

00:38:29.540 shut the book on SNC

00:38:31.380 Lavelland and this is a

00:38:32.960 company like it will never go

00:38:34.940 away it's like the

00:38:35.640 bombardier of well I guess

00:38:37.500 bombardier is the bombardier

00:38:38.660 of Canada but it's it's

00:38:40.120 like the bombardier of

00:38:41.660 Canada in the sense that

00:38:43.100 it just is always going to

00:38:44.820 be on the receiving end of

00:38:46.460 government money but in

00:38:47.720 bombardier's case they're

00:38:48.780 not corrupt they're just

00:38:49.620 bad at business in SNC

00:38:50.900 Lavelland's case we're

00:38:52.180 talking about a grossly

00:38:54.000 criminal enterprise that is

00:38:56.840 still getting taxpayer money

00:38:59.060 we'll talk to you in a

00:38:59.920 couple of days folks my

00:39:00.780 thanks to all of you for

00:39:01.620 tuning in and to Leo

00:39:02.600 Knight for coming on the

00:39:03.480 show thank you god bless and

00:39:05.260 good day Canada

00:39:05.960 thanks for listening to the

00:39:07.360 Andrew Lawton show

00:39:08.240 support the program by

00:39:09.500 donating to true north at

00:39:10.780 www.tnc.news

00:39:13.700 home world

00:39:19.000 we'll be

00:39:21.800 we'll be

00:39:23.580 we'll be

Juno News - June 22, 2020

The Art of Self-Cancelling

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