Juno News - The Canadian Armed Forces is facing a CRISIS ｜ Ret. Lt.-Gen. Michel Maisonneuve

00:00:00.000 The Canadian military once struck fear into our enemies.

00:00:09.460 It was a proud institution respected the world over.

00:00:12.560 But today, much like our country, that is no longer the case.

00:00:16.700 Among many other issues, the Canadian military seems to be subjected to a relentless onslaught

00:00:21.540 of bureaucrat-enforced DEI and woke progressive ideology.

00:00:26.080 The government is doubling down on failed policies which have destroyed morale and have

00:00:31.040 driven troops out of the military, making them feel ashamed of not just the flag, but

00:00:35.800 even their own skin color.

00:00:37.460 And for good measure, to really hurt morale, they're now providing tampons to every male

00:00:42.060 washroom in the Canadian Armed Forces.

00:00:44.280 Where did it all go wrong with the military?

00:00:46.620 What is the motivation behind this?

00:00:48.460 And more importantly, what can the Canadian Armed Forces do to get back on its feet and

00:00:52.960 strike fear back into the heart of the enemy?

00:00:55.280 Well, joining us now on The Faulkner Show is a man who knows all about that and a man

00:00:59.680 who has spoken out about the current state of our country and the current state of the

00:01:03.960 military.

00:01:04.680 In his 35 years of service to this country, retired Lieutenant General Michel Maison-Nov served

00:01:10.300 this country in Bosnia, Cyprus, and Kosovo.

00:01:13.900 He also served Canada as the Assistant Deputy Chief of the Defense Staff and as the Chief of

00:01:18.880 Staff to the NATO Allied Command Transformation in Norfolk, Virginia.

00:01:23.920 In 2022, after receiving the Vimy Award for Significant and Outstanding Contributions to the Defense

00:01:29.540 and Security of Canada, he gave a brutally honest speech about the state of our once-feared

00:01:33.800 military and the state of our country, which made national headlines and drew the ire of

00:01:38.960 Canada's progressive elite.

00:01:41.120 And we're very pleased that he joins us now on the show.

00:01:43.480 Lieutenant General Michel Maison-Nov, thank you so much for joining us.

00:01:46.760 Merci beaucoup, Harrison.

00:01:48.540 Ça me fait plaisir.

00:01:50.000 Happy to be here.

00:01:51.380 So the military is facing an attrition crisis.

00:01:54.780 It's been well reported in the media in this country, yet the federal government seems to

00:01:59.340 be doubling down on the policies which have led to this attrition.

00:02:03.440 What possible motivation does the government have to do this to its own military?

00:02:07.780 Well, I mean, I would describe it as not just a crisis of personnel.

00:02:14.280 It's really a perfect storm that the Armed Forces are going through right now.

00:02:19.740 It's an issue of, there are issues of personnel, equipment, training, and leadership, and all

00:02:25.960 of them are interconnected.

00:02:27.020 So it's extremely dire for the Armed Forces.

00:02:32.860 And as the Chief of Defence Staff has said many times, he sees that it's probably going

00:02:36.960 to take at least 10 years to get through this.

00:02:39.060 And I believe he's right.

00:02:41.040 Now, why?

00:02:43.140 Let's just say that one of my old teachers at RMC, George F.G.

00:02:49.620 Stanley, a very well-known historian, said Canada's military history is the military

00:02:53.980 history of an unmilitary people.

00:02:55.720 And throughout history, even though we have fought valiantly, our forefathers, the greatest

00:03:01.540 generation, our soldiers who are in, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and women who are in the

00:03:06.400 military now are doing an outstanding job.

00:03:08.920 However, Canadians, it's never been top priority for them.

00:03:13.120 And so that's reflected in the government and the government policies.

00:03:17.020 When you put the military, you put defence, sovereignty, security against social programs.

00:03:23.900 It never has a priority.

00:03:25.480 So that is really the reason.

00:03:28.740 You've spoken at the Conservative Convention and endorsed Pierre Poiliev to become the

00:03:33.040 next Prime Minister of Canada.

00:03:34.760 Now, it's been reported that these issues in the military have been a long-running issue.

00:03:39.560 It's been the cause of many years.

00:03:42.040 Do you have confidence that a change in federal government will lead to a change in the state

00:03:46.460 of our military?

00:03:46.940 Well, that would be the first step for me, because it's all based on leadership.

00:03:52.760 Now, you know, Pierre Poiliev, Conservative government, will not be able to immediately

00:03:56.780 say, OK, we're going to fix all the problems.

00:03:58.740 Like I said, it's going to take 10 years no matter who gets in.

00:04:01.180 But what I'm hoping, and I've discussed this with Mr. Poiliev myself and with James Bazin,

00:04:07.560 the shadow defence critic, that, you know, I've said they need to have a plan.

00:04:14.320 And they're working on a plan.

00:04:15.500 And I think anything is better than actually what's going on with the armed forces.

00:04:22.580 So I have, let's say, I know hope is not a method, but I have good hope.

00:04:27.020 And I have a feeling that they're going to take it seriously.

00:04:29.640 And I will be there to help support them in this endeavour.

00:04:34.600 And many other colleagues also will do so.

00:04:37.600 Maybe you know what's going on in the current senior ranks, being a former senior officer

00:04:43.480 yourself.

00:04:44.020 Do generals in the senior ranks in the military, do they support what's going on, the sort of

00:04:51.720 ideological conformity, the progressive politics that seems to be running through the military?

00:04:57.900 Do you know if the senior ranks right now are in support of these measures?

00:05:03.300 Well, what you have to understand, Harrison, is that when you join the forces, you have a

00:05:08.760 duty, your freedom of speech is restricted.

00:05:11.800 You are in there, the policies are made by the government.

00:05:17.300 The implementation is done by the military.

00:05:20.220 So the government actually decides, you know, this is what's important to us.

00:05:24.580 Here's what we're going to, you know, if you want to talk about culture, here's what we

00:05:29.000 think needs to be done.

00:05:30.000 And they make it happen.

00:05:32.280 Don't also forget that the military, the Canadian Armed Forces, is part of the Department of

00:05:36.380 National Defence, which is made up of civilian employees as well.

00:05:40.300 The chief of defence staff and the deputy minister at the same level are both reporting

00:05:44.100 to the minister.

00:05:44.840 So it's a duality.

00:05:46.560 And so, you know, the deputy minister has his or her ideas.

00:05:50.900 The chief of defence staff has his or her ideas.

00:05:53.080 And they try to work together, obviously, and it usually works very, very well.

00:05:58.440 Now, so in terms of whether the senior military officers support it, I think those officers

00:06:05.400 are doing the best with what they're given.

00:06:08.640 The chief of defence staff is a fine human being.

00:06:11.260 I know him.

00:06:11.980 And his heart is in the right place.

00:06:14.400 And he has a can-do attitude, as we all had when we were in.

00:06:18.820 But he has a duty to, you know, his freedom of speech is restricted.

00:06:21.960 He has been quite open about saying what the situation is.

00:06:25.460 In the military, they always taught us that if the media comes to you, you're allowed to

00:06:28.860 say what you're doing, what the job entails, and what the situation is at this time.

00:06:33.140 You're not allowed to talk about policy or speculate or anything.

00:06:37.320 So he's talking about the situation in the military.

00:06:39.920 As are Vice Admiral Oktoloni and Angus Topshy, as well, who have, you know, made videos and

00:06:46.320 explained to their troops.

00:06:47.220 It's all part, also, of leadership, of making sure that your troops are advised of what's

00:06:51.300 going on.

00:06:51.800 So presumably, they are doing the best with what they're doing.

00:06:56.060 And I think, again, their heart's in the right place.

00:06:58.740 And listen, it's not easy when you're given certain tasks and you don't necessarily agree

00:07:03.680 with it.

00:07:04.180 Well, if you don't agree with it, get out or else stay in.

00:07:08.260 And, you know, it's always you get to that point where you either stay in and try to 1.00

00:07:13.140 change things and protect your troops from, I would say, the idiots above. 0.99

00:07:18.200 I'm not talking about anybody else, you know, specifically or anything. 0.99

00:07:21.700 But I'm saying, you know, part of a leader's job is to ensure that he or she protects those

00:07:27.440 below them, below him or her, from the decisions that may have a really difficult impact.

00:07:34.040 So they're doing the best they can, I think, with the issues they're given.

00:07:39.120 When you delivered your speech at the Vimy Gala in 2022, after receiving the Vimy Award,

00:07:44.560 your speech made headlines across the country.

00:07:47.040 I guess they were surprised that someone like yourself would be so honest about the current

00:07:51.860 state of our military.

00:07:53.080 Take me through what motivated you to be so blunt and be so honest about the issues facing

00:07:59.400 our country.

00:08:01.640 Well, Harrison, I had been, I got out in 2007.

00:08:05.480 And from 07 to 2018, I worked as a senior executive in the public service.

00:08:12.080 As such, and in the military, I had a duty as well to restrict my freedom of speech and

00:08:16.780 speak about those things, as I said, you know, within a certain, those things that I was doing

00:08:21.680 and so on.

00:08:22.220 But I was not allowed to comment on policy.

00:08:24.840 But I had been seething, really, when I was seeing what's happening with the forces from

00:08:31.380 the time I got out.

00:08:32.480 I really felt that, you know, that things were going to the point of reducing the authority

00:08:39.140 and the initiative and the ability of commanders to actually have authority and make decisions,

00:08:44.260 the right decisions.

00:08:45.760 Stuff like this being taken away by policies, trying to make the, my sense was we were trying

00:08:50.380 to make the military too much like the public service.

00:08:53.160 It's a whole different ball of wax.

00:08:54.500 The military has different duties and so on.

00:08:57.140 We can get into it if you want.

00:08:58.860 But so I had been getting quite dissatisfied.

00:09:03.700 I retired in 2018.

00:09:05.080 And so I decided at this point that, you know, I was continuing to be dissatisfied.

00:09:09.300 And when I was told that I had won the, I'd received the Vimy award, I was honored to,

00:09:17.120 you know, to the, to a great extent.

00:09:19.940 But I thought, okay, man, this is my chance to speak as a Canadian, to give my opinion.

00:09:25.020 Because after protecting freedom of speech for 45 years, maybe this was a time for me

00:09:29.960 to now do exercise it.

00:09:31.380 And to see if any other Canadians felt the same way as I did.

00:09:34.500 And so, and not only about the state of the Canadian Armed Forces, as you know, I talked

00:09:38.740 about the state of our country.

00:09:40.320 And I continue to feel about the state of our country as I did then.

00:09:43.660 And, and so that's kind of what brought me there.

00:09:46.600 I was hoping that my message was, would resonate and also would cause people to talk about it.

00:09:52.240 I guess it did that.

00:09:54.160 But again, though, it did that mostly in the conservative circles.

00:09:57.960 But again, I was speaking as a Canadian at this point.

00:10:00.340 I was not, I was not speaking as a conservative and I hadn't come out of the closet, as I like

00:10:05.580 to say, but, but so that, that was what happened.

00:10:10.260 And, and, and I tried to end with, with a positive, with a positive message as well,

00:10:15.640 that in spite of that, it's still a wonderful world.

00:10:17.780 We live in, in a great country, but, but I think Canada can do better than it's doing

00:10:22.420 right now.

00:10:23.040 And, and so I, this is what kind of the continuing, the continuing aspects of my speech, I think

00:10:29.780 are, you know, now I'm obviously, when I spoke at the convention, I was speaking as

00:10:34.060 a conservative, supporting Pierre Poilievre, my wife also.

00:10:38.140 And so, so now, you know, I, now I'm doing what I can to, to change this government.

00:10:43.760 Obviously, the military has changed immensely since when you first joined to where it is

00:10:49.400 today.

00:10:50.260 You know, let's go back to what the military looked like when you joined, when you signed

00:10:54.580 up, what, what are the differences then and now?

00:10:57.280 I'm sure there are, there are plenty, but maybe for our audience, they'd be interested to

00:11:00.920 know just how, maybe the right word is how far the military has fallen.

00:11:06.460 Well, first of all, again, I will tell you, it's, it's not just a matter of the military

00:11:11.160 having fallen recently, right?

00:11:13.720 We've, we've had this downward, you know, my friend, Rick Hillier talked about the, the

00:11:17.440 decade, decade of darkness, right?

00:11:19.140 Under the liberals before, before Stephen Harper came to power.

00:11:23.480 I mean, he, he's right.

00:11:25.100 And, you know, I remember very much when I joined the, you know, at times we were

00:11:30.860 missing bullets.

00:11:31.500 So we used to go out there training and going bang, bang.

00:11:33.840 I mean, this was actually happening when I was a young recruit and everything.

00:11:37.420 However, you know, at the time our, our military also, you know, but you have to remember this

00:11:43.740 was Pierre Trudeau also, this was, we, we left Germany, repatriated back to Canada, kind

00:11:50.980 of retrenched ourselves a little bit.

00:11:52.720 And then, but then we became very well known as great peacekeepers.

00:11:56.560 And of course, one of the things that made us great peacekeepers is the fact that we

00:12:00.460 were very operational and able to actually, you know, good soldiers that could actually

00:12:04.580 take up arms and fight as we had demonstrated in the second world war at Korea and, and,

00:12:09.620 and conflicts since then.

00:12:11.140 So, but, but so our military, one of the things, for example, my, my old sergeant, who is now

00:12:17.740 a retired chief warrant officer, the other day, him and I were talking and he said, you

00:12:21.900 know, our infantry battalions were 800 people in those days.

00:12:25.140 And you could give a mission to send an infantry battalion into a mission.

00:12:28.820 You didn't have to take companies from other battalions to make one battalion.

00:12:32.900 One battalion was a full battalion at 800.

00:12:35.660 Now a battalion is probably like 500.

00:12:37.460 So that means if you're going to put it out there for a mission, you're going to need

00:12:42.760 to get one or two companies from other battalions or increase reserves and with the battalion

00:12:48.620 to do it.

00:12:49.360 For example, our mission in Latvia.

00:12:51.480 Now we're trying to take this from a battalion group to a brigade group.

00:12:55.340 That's a huge commitment going from probably 1200 to 22, 2300.

00:13:00.880 That's going to take a lot of the troops from, from Valcarce who are going to do it.

00:13:04.700 And I must tell you that our units are going to need to be augmented because we can't do

00:13:09.900 it.

00:13:10.020 So these are some of the differences that have happened.

00:13:12.560 But, you know, the issue of equipment has always been an issue.

00:13:15.300 I mean, we bought a training vehicle for tanks.

00:13:18.560 I'm a tanker.

00:13:19.260 So we bought a training vehicle, said, no, no, we'll never deploy it.

00:13:22.600 Well, we deployed it.

00:13:23.780 And so our troops had to use a training vehicle as an operational vehicle and, you know,

00:13:29.260 presumably to defend or actually do, you know, offensive operations.

00:13:36.520 And it never happened, luckily, but we did fire in anger a few times.

00:13:40.800 So this is kind of, you know, it's been an issue for a long, long time.

00:13:44.520 I mean, I could go through some of these issues that we're having today.

00:13:46.900 But, you know, the point is they're all interconnected and it's a real, like I said, a perfect storm.

00:13:52.380 In that speech you discussed at the Vimy Gala, you discussed, as you mentioned before,

00:13:57.280 it's not, it wasn't just about the state of our military, but the state of our country.

00:14:00.680 And one of the themes you touched on was the fact that the government essentially wants

00:14:05.520 Canadians to apologize for our history, a history that we should be proud of, not one 0.99

00:14:10.060 that we should be apologizing for.

00:14:11.460 Or I'm just confused because I don't understand how a government expects people to sign up

00:14:17.520 to fight for this country if they also want us to feel bad for our country, if they want

00:14:21.480 us to look at our flag in shame.

00:14:23.560 I mean, I have to imagine that there is some sort of similar feelings inside the military

00:14:28.960 and among the veteran community.

00:14:31.480 Well, I imagine it certainly doesn't help our recruiting, does it now?

00:14:35.620 You know, if our military, let's say, okay, let's talk first of all about the apologies.

00:14:40.740 Look, you cannot judge today's or the leaders of yesterday with today's values, okay?

00:14:48.460 Things were different then, you know?

00:14:50.600 So you have to look at how, you know, what our forefathers did.

00:14:56.100 They built a great country.

00:14:57.580 They worked hard to make it the country that it is today.

00:15:00.780 There's no doubt they made some mistakes.

00:15:02.720 And okay, we've apologized and we continue to apologize.

00:15:05.540 But I think there's a point at which you say, okay, yes, John A.

00:15:09.260 Macdonald was not perfect, nor was Dundas or any of the other, Cornwallis.

00:15:14.180 However, my goodness, the things that they did to build this country, to make it what it

00:15:17.920 is today, needs to be honored.

00:15:20.360 And so tearing down a statue as opposed to saying, okay, let's put a plaque on it that

00:15:24.220 explains that this guy was not perfect.

00:15:25.900 But he is somebody that we should recognize as a historical figure of not only interest,

00:15:34.180 but that should be revered and appreciated for what they did, for the good things that

00:15:39.440 they did.

00:15:40.640 Now, going from there to these apologies and the impact on Canadians themselves.

00:15:46.000 I mean, Canadians deserve to be proud and they deserve to be patriotic to, you know,

00:15:52.820 I love our flag and I think our flag should be the first one and the only one to really

00:15:57.460 be above all other flags.

00:15:59.660 And I've seen it sometimes be below other flags that, you know, of special interests,

00:16:03.620 as I call them.

00:16:04.300 So that really frustrates me.

00:16:06.380 It bothers me.

00:16:08.060 And so Canadians need to be patriotic, proud of their country.

00:16:11.560 This will have an impact on recruitment and all the work that, or all the questions that

00:16:20.880 the military is under in terms of culture and DEI and everything and how everyone in

00:16:26.780 there is a, you know, is a bad person.

00:16:29.200 Well, no, I'm sorry.

00:16:30.600 99.99% of all the military are good people who are working hard and men of honor.

00:16:37.280 And I can talk about my wife, what her experience has been.

00:16:39.600 And, you know, she, she believes that, you know, most people are honorable.

00:16:44.340 Those that are not, those that are nasty, you get them out, kick them out.

00:16:48.200 You take them to the full extent of the law, but you need to at some point say, okay, we're

00:16:53.160 now going to roll all these, these issues of culture into the normal processes and, and,

00:16:58.880 and ensure that, that the recruiting message goes out that this is an institution that is

00:17:04.900 worth joining service to Canada is something that should be honored and pushed.

00:17:10.740 And I think that's the only way we're going to solve the problems at the really high strategic

00:17:14.520 level.

00:17:15.460 You know, you, you touched on the DEI narrative and influence in the military.

00:17:20.560 And there was a military, the Canadian military journal recently published, uh, their recent

00:17:25.780 issue, which basically accused the military of being, you know, supporting white supremacy,

00:17:31.280 the patriarchy, all of those classic DEI terms were infused throughout that.

00:17:36.360 As a leader of men, talk about the morale, uh, impact on, on the troops and how that, how

00:17:42.880 that impacts operations and not just recruitment, but you know, the day-to-day operations, not

00:17:48.340 just in a battlefield, but while you're training as well, the morale seems to be, uh, seems to

00:17:53.320 be a, a, a, a target for people like the bureaucratic class in the military.

00:17:57.980 I just don't understand what the motivation behind this possibly is.

00:18:01.800 Yeah.

00:18:02.800 I think, I, I think the motivation was to try and start a bit of a, of a discussion,

00:18:07.020 have a little bit of a, you know, put, put the issues out there.

00:18:10.260 In my view, it went way too far.

00:18:11.680 I mean, uh, and I've actually written to the editor and I think, uh, my letter will

00:18:15.920 be, uh, will be published in the next issue.

00:18:18.740 Uh, but, uh, but so, so you're right.

00:18:22.520 It, it kind of, uh, it, it almost like, uh, it painted everyone with the same brush, uh, that

00:18:30.020 everybody was, uh, was a nasty person and that there was still all kinds of, uh, all

00:18:35.120 kinds of underlying issues that, that needed to be fixed.

00:18:38.480 Look, again, my view is that, you know, there were, there were bad people.

00:18:43.820 These people I'm hoping now are being brought to justice and will be tried.

00:18:48.340 And by the way, to ensure that those that are brought to justice, but are found not guilty,

00:18:53.140 or also, uh, you know, return to duty and, uh, and, uh, re, uh, what do you call it?

00:18:58.660 The rep, uh, reparations are, are provided, uh, because your, your career can be shot.

00:19:03.520 Even if you've just been accused and actually found not guilty, you know, you imagine a teacher

00:19:09.160 trying to go back to school and, uh, after he's been accused and, and found not guilty anyway.

00:19:14.980 Uh, but yes, it's, it's had an impact.

00:19:17.120 It's, I'm sure it's had an impact and I have no, you know, I have no intern, no kind of feelers

00:19:22.240 out there, but I am getting, uh, uh, I am getting sometimes feedback from some serving,

00:19:26.920 uh, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and women who, who say, look, uh, people are getting out of

00:19:32.960 the military.

00:19:33.340 They don't want to have anything to do with this anymore.

00:19:35.920 Um, uh, it's gone.

00:19:38.260 The issue is almost as if, uh, DEI has trumped meritocracy.

00:19:42.860 And I, I really believe that, uh, we need to go back to that.

00:19:46.340 And, you know, uh, if you're trying to make the forces more diverse, if you get two candidates

00:19:50.300 that are, have the same amount of merit, well, okay, maybe you choose the one that's,

00:19:54.260 you know, that's a part of a minority.

00:19:56.780 Uh, however, meritocracy has to be the top way that you recruit and bring people in and

00:20:02.540 promote them, et cetera.

00:20:03.980 So DEI, I'm sure has had a huge impact on morale.

00:20:07.340 And, uh, and unfortunately, uh, I think that's one of the issues of retention that we're seeing

00:20:11.740 and sensing now on retention, you know, the 16,000 people that reportedly are missing from

00:20:17.260 the military, the problem is not just the numbers.

00:20:20.020 The problem is who are these people?

00:20:22.180 Well, they're all middle managers that are getting out either majors, captains in the

00:20:25.780 officer side or warrant officers and sergeants on the, on the non-commission member side.

00:20:30.380 So you can't replace those with recruits.

00:20:32.620 It takes 15 years to make somebody like that, to give them the, uh, expertise and knowledge

00:20:37.500 and, uh, uh, professionalism required.

00:20:40.060 So, so it's not a, it's not a snap thing to, to replace these people.

00:20:43.780 So you got to work on retention, you got to work on recruiting at the same time.

00:20:48.260 And you know, the whole point of a military, I'm not, I'm not in the military, but from

00:20:53.900 my perspective, it should be first and foremost about being able to operate and being effective

00:20:58.860 and being, you know, effective in war.

00:21:01.540 Now, I just don't understand where DEI comes into that at all.

00:21:05.640 You know, it doesn't, it doesn't seem as though there's, there's any value in DEI.

00:21:09.360 If the, in the sole objective of military is to be effective at winning battles.

00:21:16.480 Yeah.

00:21:16.800 One of the things in that, uh, in that, that Canadian military journal, uh, one of the articles

00:21:21.680 in there talked about, you know, the warrior culture is not necessarily good.

00:21:24.740 And I guess when I wrote, I said, what do you mean the warrior culture?

00:21:28.800 Well, that's what you want.

00:21:29.700 Your warrior, you want your warrior to go to war and win.

00:21:32.960 Okay.

00:21:33.220 That's the purpose of the Canadian armed forces.

00:21:35.200 Okay.

00:21:35.960 To, to protect us in Canada and to protect our values when they go outside of Canada.

00:21:42.100 And if that means going to war, being prepared to give your life, well, I'm sorry, but that's

00:21:46.840 what you sign up for when you sign that blank check to the, to the point of, of, uh, of,

00:21:52.300 losing your life, doing it, or actually ordering others to lose their life, which is also a

00:21:57.460 huge, uh, responsibility.

00:21:59.080 So, so they, you know, that whole warrior culture versus DEI, I'll tell you what, if

00:22:04.800 you're a young Sergeant commanding a section of 10 men and women, okay.

00:22:10.560 Those women are going to be included in that section. 1.00

00:22:13.440 They're going to be inclusively in there.

00:22:15.860 They're going to be part of the team.

00:22:17.340 And the whole idea is to create a team, to be able to work together.

00:22:20.760 And so they're, they're, they're, you know, the whole DEI thing, you know, again, making

00:22:25.140 people understand it's important to include, to be inclusive.

00:22:28.620 It doesn't matter what the color, gender, sex, uh, you know, sexual orientation is.

00:22:34.740 You got to ensure that your folks are, are, are together.

00:22:37.400 And so it brings me to my next point, which imagine, imagine now the, the challenge of

00:22:44.080 a Lieutenant, a captain or a Sergeant or a warrant officer trying to bring that section

00:22:49.320 together, section of 10 people together and ensuring that, okay, everybody's feeling good.

00:22:54.480 And then they're all feeling included, but I can tell you when you go to war, it's, uh,

00:22:58.020 now, okay.

00:22:58.560 When I say go, you go, you don't say, well, I don't know, he said, go too loud or whatever.

00:23:03.120 You know, it's, it's, you know, so there's a limit at which you get.

00:23:08.140 I just think the pendulum perhaps has swung too far.

00:23:11.020 Certainly from what I read than CMJ, it was way too far.

00:23:14.640 So I wrote and said, look, this is, this has gone too far.

00:23:17.420 Now we need to reinstate meritocracy, operational capability.

00:23:21.080 And you're absolutely right.

00:23:22.640 Operational capabilities got to trump any of the, the other cultural issues.

00:23:28.500 So, so the military was once feared by our enemies.

00:23:32.660 We were very successful in the world wars and our enemies, they feared us.

00:23:37.240 And we have records of that.

00:23:38.420 It doesn't appear to be that case.

00:23:39.900 Now, how can the Canadian military strike fear back into our enemies?

00:23:44.000 Well, um, you know, if you've got a couple of hours, I could go all through my notes here.

00:23:52.960 But look, I'll tell you the, the, the first thing that needs to happen.

00:23:56.320 And I think what I would say that, uh, it needs to be a government objective to do it.

00:24:00.880 And when, uh, when we were serving outside the country in Afghanistan and some of our other, uh, missions, we, we talked about, we used an approach called the whole of government approach.

00:24:11.380 So that was to ensure that all governments were supporting this mission, uh, whether it was, uh, foreign affairs or global affairs or, uh, or, uh, economics or, or whatever.

00:24:21.040 Everybody was working towards this goal.

00:24:22.880 So the, so I think what we need is a whole of government approach to fixing the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defense.

00:24:29.840 So that's at the highest level.

00:24:31.760 And then you need, you know, uh, leadership from the government and leadership means the prime minister himself must say, this is important to do this service to our country's honorable and important.

00:24:42.740 And then all the ministers need to be brought together and say, okay, guys, that we're going to fix this using a whole of government approach.

00:24:48.800 So then talking about the importance of service, being prepared to fund the military correctly and properly.

00:24:55.580 And what does that mean?

00:24:56.920 That means it's going to mean sacrifices in other areas, perhaps in some of the social programs.

00:25:01.640 I mean, if you've looked at how much money we spend on, uh, on the military compared to some of the other, uh, some of the other departments, it's, uh, you know, it's one of the smaller departments, but the other, the problem is that it, it is a discret discretionary budget.

00:25:16.520 So the military budget can be rated anytime you need to cut some, so like, for example, we've just had a billion cut a few months ago, right?

00:25:25.780 Or announcement of a billion dollars cut.

00:25:28.020 There's no question that has an operational impact.

00:25:30.560 And so you need to make the, the, uh, budget non-discretionary, i.e. you give the budget, you can't cut it anymore.

00:25:37.700 And it stays, it stays and perhaps increases, uh, incrementally every year.

00:25:43.220 Uh, but that way, that means that if you're going to buy a piece of equipment, it's not going to be de-scoped and backed off in, uh, for the further years because you'll have steady funding all the way across.

00:25:53.700 So then you need to rebuild your personnel side.

00:25:58.120 You need to, you see, because it's, it's all, I said, it's interconnected.

00:26:01.340 So if you're, if you're not, if you're a personnel, uh, you're missing a lot of personnel, you can't do the training because who does the training?

00:26:08.240 It's the sergeants and warrant officers that I was talking about who are getting out.

00:26:11.340 They're the ones that train the recruits.

00:26:13.080 And then who is, uh, buying the equipment?

00:26:15.160 Well, you need project managers who are, you know, mid-level majors and captains.

00:26:19.560 They're getting out as well.

00:26:20.620 So you don't have enough of them to buy, to do procurement, you know, so it's all interconnected.

00:26:25.300 Um, so you need to redress the personnel, uh, structure and then you need to, and the thing is, after, after you decide to do all this, you need to explain to Canadians and to have the courage to go out there and say, yep, it's going to require some sacrifice.

00:26:41.260 Some of the social programs might not get everything they need and they might get cut, but it's because we need money for the military.

00:26:48.840 And if you don't have sovereignty, security in your country, the other social programs cannot happen.

00:26:54.780 I mean, frankly, if somebody is kind of a, you know, banging at your door, we have a, people don't realize we have a boundary with Russia, you know, right through, right over the North.

00:27:04.080 And so what a, what a great way of, uh, of, uh, you know, increasing our funding for the military to base more soldiers, sailors, Airmen, and women up North.

00:27:13.040 And that way also work with our, uh, our indigenous partners that, you know, it, it, it, it can all be interconnected with, with the proper approach.

00:27:22.800 And then of course, training and what made us great and feared, as you say, was the fact that we had trained and we were, we, our troops were highly trained and able to actually, um, you know, do an operation, uh, with losing the minimum amount of folks.

00:27:38.040 But inflicting the amount of greatest amount of casualties on the enemy.

00:27:41.820 And so, and today, so, you know, will we fight a war?

00:27:45.840 You never know.

00:27:46.800 It might happen.

00:27:47.600 We never thought we'd see a war in Ukraine, you know?

00:27:50.500 Uh, so, so we need to be prepared.

00:27:52.520 And, uh, and the way to do that is personnel, equipment, uh, training and leadership.

00:27:58.380 And general, the last question I have for you before I let you go, say there's a young Canadian watching this and they're contemplating joining the military.

00:28:06.380 What would be your pitch to them as to why they should serve this country?

00:28:11.220 Not withstanding everything I've said, the military, a military career is one of the greatest things you can, you can undertake.

00:28:18.400 First of all, you can either join as a, as a private, you know, in the, uh, in the ranks as my wife did.

00:28:24.220 She spent five years in the ranks and then was, uh, sent to, to military college and came out as an officer, served a total, 21 years.

00:28:32.020 I have my boy who joined the Navy.

00:28:33.700 He's been in now 25, 24 years.

00:28:36.380 Uh, he's a chief petty officer, uh, second class.

00:28:39.500 He's enjoying his career.

00:28:41.200 It's a tough career.

00:28:42.620 There's no question.

00:28:43.400 And you don't have everything you need.

00:28:44.820 However, what you have is the best people in the world, our young men and women in Canada are incredible people.

00:28:52.860 They will surprise you with their energy, the enthusiasm, their initiative, every time you, you work with them.

00:28:59.520 Uh, and you know, when, when you get downtrodden and I know some of our senior officers at national defense headquarters talking about the chief of defense staff and all the way down are feeling the pressure of the policies and everything that's going on.

00:29:12.360 However, I'm sure that when they want to get picked up and they want to feel great about what they're doing, they just have to go talk to the troops, go and see what they're doing in the field, go ask them how it's going.

00:29:22.480 And, and they'll tell you, you know, point blank without any fricking filter, exactly what things are, what's happening in there.

00:29:29.240 And so, so it is a great career, uh, the possibilities of, you know, it's, it's a well-paying career.

00:29:35.100 And one thing I didn't realize when I joined is the pension at the end is fantastic, you know, so these are things that you don't think about when you're a young lad or a woman, uh, joining the military, but, uh, outstanding career, lots of fun, great, uh, great friends, lots of travel, uh, lots of opportunities.

00:29:52.880 And, uh, and nowadays we need them.

00:29:55.380 We need, uh, young people to join.

00:29:58.260 Lieutenant General Michel Maisonneuve, thank you for your service to your, to this country.

00:30:02.060 And thank you for this interview.

00:30:03.360 Really appreciate it.

00:30:04.140 Thank you, Harrison.

00:30:05.700 Good talking to you.

00:30:06.580 Merci beaucoup.

Juno News - March 06, 2024

The Canadian Armed Forces is facing a CRISIS ｜ Ret. Lt.-Gen. Michel Maisonneuve

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