Juno News - The Erosion of the Individual

00:00:00.000 welcome to canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton show brought to you by true north

00:00:10.140 coming up vaccine passports parallel societies and the people who don't want the lockdown to end

00:00:20.840 the andrew lawton show starts right now

00:00:24.480 hello and welcome to another edition of canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew

00:00:32.960 lawton show here on true north monday july 19th 2021 i know it has been a couple of weeks since

00:00:40.840 we've done a regular bona fide edition of the show you may have seen we've been focusing our attention

00:00:46.140 on the production and release of assaulted justin trudeau's war on gun owners if you do get a chance

00:00:53.480 to check that out the first two episodes are already out the next one's coming out soon and

00:00:58.740 so will the final part of the series it's been a really fun project we've had great feedback

00:01:03.480 it's been a lot of work so that's why i have been negligent in my full-fledged andrew lawton show

00:01:09.100 hosting duties but again popping back in because there is a lot happening in the world unfortunately

00:01:14.600 most of it not particularly good all of the politicians are thumping their chest saying we

00:01:20.300 are in the midst of the great reopening but it isn't really looking that way because what the

00:01:25.820 politicians are doing is reopening society just enough to say they are but not really all that much

00:01:33.980 we have in ontario for example the reopening plan that doesn't actually have a final step that is

00:01:38.860 reopen and even though you have little glimmers of hope in canada like alberta which is pretty much

00:01:44.700 restriction free politicians and some activists in society are moving us closer and closer to this

00:01:52.140 parallel society model in which there are two canadas the canada that's open to the vaccinated

00:01:58.060 and the canada that is closed off to the unvaccinated this is increasingly what a lot of people are trying

00:02:04.140 to push for the vaccine passport is the discussion that really underscores all of this and i want to talk

00:02:11.740 about this because there are a lot of misconceptions and frankly a few myths circulating about what a

00:02:18.220 vaccine passport is and about from a policy perspective what its implications are we know

00:02:24.780 that in canada there is no nationally mandated vaccine passport that you need to go from one

00:02:31.180 province to another justin trudeau for his part came out and said this is a provincial responsibility

00:02:36.540 which means he's in election mode and he doesn't want to have to deal with the bad pr

00:02:41.340 that comes along with forcing canadians to show their papers if they want to cross the ottawa river

00:02:46.940 or something like that so by making it a provincial responsibility you have a range you have manitoba

00:02:52.220 which has never found a lockdown measure it didn't like which has implemented a provincial vaccine

00:02:57.260 passport you've got atlantic provinces that are demanding proof of vaccination to enter even though

00:03:02.780 free movement within canada is supposed to be a given you've got quebec which is mulling it in the fall

00:03:09.420 and then you've got on the alberta side and i should say ontario as well i've not been happy

00:03:14.220 with the ontario pandemic response but doug ford was very clear saying no to a vaccine passport well i

00:03:21.100 i've never believed in in proof everyone gets their their proof when they get the vaccination you're

00:03:25.500 right anything can be fraudulent right down from money to uh certifications i just no we aren't doing it

00:03:31.820 so simple as that uh and uh we're just going to move forward now if it's federal uh getting across

00:03:38.460 the border that's up to the federal government um we'll we'll see what they decide to do i'll be

00:03:42.940 talking to the prime minister tonight but uh the answer is no we aren't going to do it and similarly

00:03:48.460 i'd say actually more robustly jason kenney has said no because he went further he said not only will

00:03:53.820 alberta have no vaccine passport it will not recognize any other attempts federally or from other

00:03:59.980 provinces to impose one alberta is going to be completely free of vaccine passports the refusal

00:04:06.700 by a government to issue an official certificate that says i have been vaccinated does not take away

00:04:13.580 from the potential for people to demand proof of vaccination which anyone who's gotten a covet 19

00:04:19.020 vaccination have whether it's a little cdc certificate a printout from your provincial health

00:04:24.220 agency or whatever so the absence of a certificate that you call a passport does not mean the absence

00:04:31.100 of the requirement to show proof if you want to access certain aspects of society and this is the

00:04:36.060 problem that's happening now as provinces say for the most part we don't want vaccine passports

00:04:42.860 individual businesses and individual people are saying well we do want proof of vaccination and i asked

00:04:49.820 jason kenney about this idea at a press conference last week i said listen you as a province don't

00:04:54.620 want to do this fine what do you think about individual businesses who want to start putting

00:04:59.980 in these restrictions saying only the vaccinated can get a seat at my restaurant can work out at my gym

00:05:05.260 and so on and this is what he said i wanted to ask about the local business level if an individual

00:05:10.780 business in alberta were to require a proof of vaccination for its clientele or its staff where would that

00:05:17.980 fit in to your vision either you know legally or morally well as i've said we're concerned about

00:05:26.380 privacy rights and we will not facilitate vaccine passports in this province we believe that certainly

00:05:36.220 for receiving government services for example it would be uh inappropriate to require people to disclose

00:05:42.940 uh their personal health status uh requiring that people disclose their personal health status can

00:05:49.340 only be done under under alberta law for very narrow uh purposes like for example applying for life

00:05:55.340 insurance things that have a very legitimate and narrow purpose um so a broad uh requirement that

00:06:02.620 people in the population disclose their personal health information would in our view be a violation of

00:06:08.940 uh the spirit if not the letter of the health information act and the principle of uh protecting

00:06:13.660 people's privacy um so uh i would discourage businesses from going down that route um on the

00:06:21.580 other hand if individuals choose voluntarily to share with a business um evidence about their having been

00:06:29.420 vaccinated i guess that's their choice but we aren't going to take any steps to facilitate that uh in a

00:06:34.700 a formal way um and we did consider you know potentially bringing forward legislation but uh

00:06:40.380 but again our view was that privacy is already protected under the privacy act and the um excuse

00:06:46.940 me it's actually called the freedom of information and protection of privacy act in alberta

00:06:50.540 and the uh health information act and uh we would just uh suggest that employers look very closely

00:06:56.780 uh at at those privacy rights before they um uh potentially infringe on people's privacy rights

00:07:03.980 now there's a bit of uncertainty there you may have heard he's convinced and i think there's good

00:07:08.140 merit to this that it would be illegal for businesses to force disclosure of medical information

00:07:13.820 for starters it may be illegal to say people who aren't vaccinated can't come but even if you

00:07:19.260 do have that policy demanding people provide proof of vaccination which is again medical documentation

00:07:25.580 medical records would violate alberta's privacy and freedom of information laws

00:07:31.100 so here's where it's very challenging for me as a libertarian because i generally believe

00:07:37.740 that businesses should be able to do absolutely whatever they want as far as serving customers

00:07:42.700 they want and not serving customers they don't want and i believe that when we're talking about

00:07:47.180 all of these cases that have come up about oh the transgender woman that wants to be

00:07:51.740 waxed at the salon or the gay baker that wants to know it's the christian baker that

00:07:57.500 doesn't want to bake the gay wedding cake all of these things i believe that as individuals we have

00:08:02.300 choice businesses should not have to surrender their individual choice just because they hang

00:08:07.180 up a shingle and go into business now my position is not consistent with the law in canada sadly but

00:08:14.140 it's not because in canada we force business owners to identify as public services and go through

00:08:20.060 all of these different guidelines and regulations under human rights law so that they don't actually have

00:08:25.900 much in the way of choice about who they serve as business owners if it falls under one of these

00:08:31.100 protected grounds of human rights law but here's the thing if i'm talking about an ideal society

00:08:38.700 businesses would have the right to say you know what i don't want to serve people who aren't vaccinated

00:08:43.260 people who are pro-vaccine choice or pro-civil liberties would have the right to say well you

00:08:47.740 know what i don't want to go to that business i don't want my friends to go there and this is choice

00:08:52.300 at work the choice of the business owner and the choice of the individual now what i think should

00:08:58.220 be legally permitted is different than what i think is morally right and i believe it is not at

00:09:05.980 all morally right for businesses to start stratifying society or for governments for that matter

00:09:11.820 certainly not governments but for anyone to be stratifying society and having the in crowd and the out

00:09:16.940 crowd saying well yes you're only allowed to enjoy all of the fruits of canada if you are vaccinated

00:09:22.620 and if not you can't because that defeats the purpose of what has been the prevailing narrative

00:09:28.780 for the last 16 months which is quote unquote we are all in this together sorry sure hashtag we are all

00:09:34.940 in this together copyright trademark registered whatever the line that we have been sickened by hearing

00:09:41.340 ad nauseum we are all in this together and when interestingly enough people were getting vaccinated

00:09:48.940 in april may before the canadian population at large for the most part was we were not saying

00:09:55.180 you've been vaccinated you're now exempt from mask mandates you're now exempt from lockdowns you're

00:10:00.300 now exempt from quarantine this did not happen while people were getting vaccinated so if there was no

00:10:06.460 benefit to people getting vaccinated why is it fair to start taking away the benefits if we can call

00:10:14.620 living in a free society a benefit as though government grants it why are we taking away the

00:10:18.780 benefits from people who are not vaccinated and as i've said so many of these lockdown restrictions

00:10:24.620 have not been about public health they've not been about science they have been about complete

00:10:29.260 abject control and good life fitness you may remember a big gym headquartered in my hometown

00:10:35.660 actually london ontario came out and very innocuously said we don't have a policy requiring vaccinations

00:10:41.340 that position is consistent with pretty much 99 percent of canadian businesses and most gyms they

00:10:47.900 weren't making a political statement they were just saying listen we encourage people to follow public

00:10:52.460 health guidelines we're following the rules we don't require vaccination and good life got absolutely

00:10:58.620 dragged on twitter people were threatening to cancel memberships people were accusing them of being anti-vax

00:11:04.620 when all they were saying is well like everyone else we are not requiring people to provide

00:11:09.180 medical documentation if they want to work out in our facilities and the incident with good life

00:11:17.100 triggered a website of sorts in toronto called safe to do or safe to do which was created by a toronto

00:11:25.260 lawyer it is a self-selecting database you can opt in of businesses that have various degrees of vaccination

00:11:33.420 policies for staff and or customers and if you scroll through it's not a huge list at this point

00:11:38.860 but you've got restaurants saying that all staff are vaccinated now this may or may not be a requirement

00:11:44.060 it may just be that their staff happen to be vaccinated and they want to get credit for it from

00:11:48.460 safety conscious customers but there are a couple of places like chanticleer which is a restaurant in

00:11:54.140 toronto that is requiring proof of vaccination if you want to sit indoors so if you want to go to this

00:12:00.620 restaurant you need to provide proof of vaccination and if you're not you can sit on the patio so

00:12:06.060 that's them trying to get around a human rights complaint because they're saying well no we're

00:12:10.540 providing an accommodation for people that don't want to provide proof whether it holds up in a human

00:12:16.540 rights tribunal i have no idea i don't particularly care to go back to what i said earlier i believe

00:12:21.340 the restaurant should have the right to decide people like me should have the right to say i'm going

00:12:25.500 to go somewhere else but here's what i find so concerning because the owner of chanticleer was

00:12:30.940 quoted in a cbc story about this website and he said something that actually made me quite upset i

00:12:39.340 generally speaking don't get phased by things i see in news coverage i i mean i read a cbc article

00:12:44.940 that might have been itself a bit triggering but i want to read what jacob wharton shuckster

00:12:49.980 said about this policy so the lead in from cbc's article he said is the responsibility of the

00:12:58.060 ontario government to provide public health guidance to businesses about whether or not they should

00:13:02.780 require staff and customers to provide proof of vaccination and then he says this the government's

00:13:09.420 inaction has caused us to have to enact policy ourselves they have passed the political football

00:13:15.500 on from government with whom the responsibility should lie to the individual and to the business

00:13:21.340 owners which is incredibly unfair he's saying that he would rather have decisions made by the

00:13:30.300 government than by him as an individual or his business as a private entity and i want you to just

00:13:38.300 take a moment and let that sink in the government's inaction has caused us to have to enact

00:13:44.780 policy ourselves the great thing about choice which by the way it's felt like we've been generally

00:13:51.740 pretty absent in the last 60 months the great thing about choice is that you can choose to do what you

00:13:56.540 want you can choose to do what you wish the government would regulate you into doing and people that don't

00:14:02.220 want to do this don't have to but this guy is upset that the government is not forcing him to enact

00:14:09.660 mandatory vaccinations for customers of his restaurant because he doesn't want to bear the bad pr that

00:14:15.740 comes from making that decision choices have consequences he wants the government to shoulder

00:14:22.780 the burden because he doesn't want to have to but the great thing about being an autonomous citizen is

00:14:26.700 that he can decide customers at his restaurant can just can decide everyone wins but the reason i i

00:14:33.420 showcase this quote which like i said since i read the article has actually stuck with me and not in

00:14:39.340 a good way is because there are all too many people right now that are completely willing in fact eager to

00:14:45.580 abdicate their individual autonomy their individual choice to the government they want government to make

00:14:50.940 the tough calls for them and a society that tends to desire automatism which basically just turns you

00:14:57.900 into a robot where you have no autonomy this automatism that society seems to be seeking is

00:15:04.300 actually the death knell of a free society how does the society achieve anything how do individuals

00:15:10.140 achieve anything if we want government to make all the tough calls or government to make all the calls

00:15:14.860 whatsoever because this quote is revealing of a bigger problem right now especially in canada which is the

00:15:23.340 death of the individual we're all in this together sounds nice but underlying that premise is that we

00:15:30.540 do not get to make individual choices for ourselves and vaccines are not mandatory you can choose as an

00:15:38.220 individual whether you want to get a covet vaccine or whether you don't but when you start doing things

00:15:44.300 that erode that choice which is what the vaccine passport does because a government-sanctioned vaccine

00:15:50.860 passport is actually telling businesses we want you we want you to start stratifying society we're giving

00:15:57.100 you the documentation you can demand we want you to start closing off your business closing off your

00:16:03.260 venue whatever the case may be to people but as we can see not having that doesn't stop that the question

00:16:10.620 is whether our objection to individual businesses making these decisions like chanticleer is should be a legal

00:16:16.620 objection or a moral objection i argue it's a moral objection i argue we should move more towards a

00:16:23.180 completely free society where people have the choice to associate or not associate but this means

00:16:28.380 committing to that not the picking and choosing of liberty that we're having from public officials in

00:16:33.340 the last year and a half which says when some people are vaccinated they're still locked down

00:16:39.260 and then when the lockdown ends or comes close to ending we are all of a sudden going to close off the

00:16:45.100 unvaccinated from being able to enjoy the free society that was taken away from them for the

00:16:50.380 last year and a half because we're already seeing by the way a two-tier society and it's not just about

00:16:55.900 vaccine passports just as an aside now i actually don't care about sports so some of you may have

00:17:00.540 strong opinions that are in favor of this but marco mendicino the immigration minister gave a national

00:17:06.540 interest exemption so the toronto blue jays could go to toronto and play home games at the rogers center

00:17:13.340 the border still closed if you've got a family member a friend a business colleague in another

00:17:18.140 country they may not be allowed to enter canada but the government says it's in the national interest

00:17:23.660 for the toronto blue jays to be here now this is proof to me that we could just open the border

00:17:30.700 that's something that we could do very easily it would be safe to do it on one hand the government

00:17:36.860 is saying that vaccines are the way forward on the other hand they're not accepting the benefit of a

00:17:41.660 society in which most people are vaccinated and people continue to be vaccinated which makes you

00:17:46.140 wonder what it is that their end game truly is and i go back to the line i gave a few moments ago

00:17:53.180 it's not about science it is about control the government wants to be the giver of freedom without

00:17:59.180 having to own any of the bad press for all the things they're doing to take away freedom take away

00:18:04.620 autonomy take away choice they're saying that yes it's scientific we need to keep the border closed

00:18:09.180 but uh the blue jays yeah come on in anyone that fits the liberals narrative gets to come into the

00:18:13.740 country they get to say oh yeah we're pro sports we're supporting reopening but all these people

00:18:17.900 that don't have a lobby do not get to come in and there are by the way particularly insidious

00:18:23.660 examples of this mentality at work just france and this is insane so emmanuel macron has actually

00:18:29.980 i thought he would be terrible when he was first elected and he hasn't been a complete disappointment

00:18:34.460 on free speech he's been very solid on a secular society he's been very solid but every now and then

00:18:40.620 i'm reminded of what i was worried about when he first came to power in france and there is a draft

00:18:46.300 law in france a draft law that would put a vaccine passport forward so that's a given it's going to

00:18:52.380 happen you need to have a health pass proving that you're vaccinated have tested negative or are

00:18:58.460 otherwise immune so you've had coveted and you've recovered and what's interesting here is that if

00:19:03.980 you are unable to present a valid health pass when you're trying to do all of these things that would

00:19:10.460 require it like going to a movie going to a concert going to a sports venue something like that you could

00:19:17.580 face six months in jail if you try to go to a sporting event without your health pass your vaccine

00:19:25.180 passport basically and you could be fined 10 000 euros this is a draft law it hasn't been enacted

00:19:32.460 yet but i want you to see what's coming and what they're trying to advance here moreover if you are

00:19:38.300 a business who does not inspect for people's vaccine passports you could go to jail for a year and be hit

00:19:45.980 with a 45 000 euro fine so the onus is on the individual to present your papers when you want to enjoy

00:19:53.900 the hallmarks of a free society and the onus is on business to demand it and if either one in that

00:19:59.580 transaction doesn't uphold their end of the bargain if you will not not a great bargain

00:20:05.580 nonetheless but a bargain if either end of that transaction doesn't do it then there could be

00:20:10.380 literal jail time because you don't want to disclose your vaccine status or you for whatever

00:20:16.060 reason didn't want to get vaccinated now i should say interestingly the ontario human rights commission

00:20:21.340 or the ontario human rights code protects creed and generally speaking this refers to deeply held

00:20:27.500 religious convictions i don't know if someone could claim in a human rights tribunal that their creed is

00:20:33.020 well i don't like vaccinations i i don't anticipate they would do well but it's one to try if you end up

00:20:38.540 getting charged on this or if you want to say that you're being discriminated against by a business

00:20:42.700 but like i said earlier we need to be moving towards a society that is prepared to own individual

00:20:48.620 choice and not the complete and utter abdication of responsibility and autonomy to the state which

00:20:54.460 we've seen for the last year and a half will not end well what you have to understand here is that

00:21:00.940 there are people who genuinely do not want the pandemic to end there are people for whatever

00:21:06.380 reason either they are complete true believers in fear or they get off on the control whatever the

00:21:11.740 case is there are people that do not want it to end i i've started this series i didn't think

00:21:15.900 it would be a series i didn't want it to be a series but every time i see stories that are kind

00:21:19.900 of anti-reopening i post them on twitter and i point out how it's the latest in stockholm syndrome

00:21:25.820 because that's precisely what's happening here and there was one that i saw just the other day

00:21:31.020 where the toronto star was saying oh oh is it are we sure we can reopen how do we avoid the pitfalls

00:21:35.740 and it's basically to slow things down people that want the reopenings slowed down and then i looked

00:21:42.700 at the stampede last week thousands of people in calgary i wish i went out i didn't have the time

00:21:47.020 but it would have been great thousands of people at concerts going to have a good time seeing friends

00:21:52.780 unmasked and brett kissel who's a great country singer i've actually met him i i was trying to

00:21:57.500 dig a picture out and i couldn't find it i have a picture with him somewhere great guy great singer

00:22:02.620 performed and he got absolutely crapped on by a lot of people on twitter i don't even think they're

00:22:08.860 fans i think these are just trolls that love lockdown they were mad that he ended up performing

00:22:15.340 because they thought that he was irresponsible and he doubled down and i'm so glad he did because

00:22:20.380 we don't see a lot of this from people who have a level of celebrity he said it was the best show of

00:22:26.300 his career to date he said for the last year and a half he's tried his best to be civil to be

00:22:31.660 understanding to be empathetic but the reality is here's the line if you want to stay home wear two

00:22:38.220 masks and build your bunker i accept your choice i respect your choice if you want to come out party

00:22:43.340 your face off make up for lost time and get this world spinning again here's my open invitation for

00:22:49.340 you to enjoy one of my concerts and he says he'll work his ass off to make sure you have the time of

00:22:55.420 your life and he's applauding alberta for having the stampede for reopening for good and he said his

00:23:02.220 boundary is that he's going to do what he wants you can do what you want and if you don't like what he

00:23:06.540 does you can go pound salt i'm paraphrasing those are my words he would be more diplomatic than i

00:23:11.980 but good on him good on him because he's telling people listen i like it wear the two masks if you

00:23:17.340 want go to the bunker if you want but don't get mad at the rest of us that want to live our lives

00:23:22.380 because you are too afraid to or do not want to and it has never been more important to call out the

00:23:28.860 people who don't want the pandemic to end and say this is where it's important to assert the power of

00:23:34.700 the individual no one is forcing you to do anything you don't want to but you are trying to force

00:23:42.460 other people to refrain from doing things they want to that is tyrannical it's not rooted in science

00:23:49.100 and it will only lead to the perpetration of the permanent lockdown which frankly i have had enough with

00:23:56.460 we've got to end things here my thanks to you all for tuning in to this unlocked down edition of the

00:24:03.900 andrew lawton show well i mean i'm still in ontario so it's locked down but i'm getting all fired up

00:24:07.980 now the libertarian is coming out of me we'll be back soon and do check out assaulted.ca for the

00:24:13.580 latest episodes of assaulted justin trudeau's war on gun owners we'll talk to you soon thank you god

00:24:19.180 bless and good day to you all thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show support the program by

00:24:23.900 donating to true north at www.tnc.news

Juno News - July 19, 2021

The Erosion of the Individual

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