00:00:00.000Hello, everyone. I am Rupa Subramanya. It's great to have you here for my first ever podcast with
00:00:11.800True North. I'm so glad you've taken a few minutes out of your busy day to tune in.
00:00:17.840I'm super proud to be associated with True North, which has carved out an important place in the
00:00:22.800independent media landscape in Canada as a voice of reason and common sense in an otherwise largely
00:00:29.800woke and hysterical mainstream space. It's truly a privilege for me to be associated with them
00:00:35.700and to launch this podcast under their banner. As for me, some of you will know me from my writing
00:00:42.720for the National Post, and some of you will know me from my coverage of the Freedom Convoy protests
00:00:48.400that took place right here in Ottawa this past winter. Some of you may know me from Twitter,
00:00:54.120where I'm fairly active. Some may even say hyperactive. So do check me out there if you
00:00:59.400haven't already done so. So the Rupa Subramanya show will be all about debating ideas and arguments,
00:01:07.740asking the big questions that matter to all Canadians. It will tackle issues that large
00:01:13.560sections of our liberal elite and the mainstream space are afraid to tackle. There's a woke liberal
00:01:20.620narrative out there on everything under the sun. And except for some brave folks, like in the
00:01:26.300independent independent media space, there's very little pushback. Here we will push back using
00:01:34.040common sense and reasoning from a pragmatic perspective. So without any further delay, let's
00:01:40.160jump into our first topic. All right, so for our first topic, should we allow international organizations
00:01:47.260or private clubs that masquerade as international organizations to have an outsized influence on what
00:01:53.860we do here in Canada? The two outfits that I have in mind that were in the spotlight recently
00:01:59.840were the World Economic Forum meetings at the ski resort of Davos in Switzerland and the World Health
00:02:06.780Organization's annual assembly meetings down the road in Geneva. But first, for those of us not well
00:02:14.480versed in the three-letter jargon of international organizations, let's just call it UN speak. What is the
00:02:21.460World Economic Forum and the World Health Organization? The World Economic Forum sounds like an international
00:02:28.600organization, like it's part of the UN, and that's deliberate. But guess what? It's an entirely private
00:02:36.440club started by the German entrepreneur and academic Klaus Schwab way back in 1971. It was originally called the
00:02:45.380European Management Forum, which basically served as a lobby group for European businesses. But Schwab had grander
00:02:52.520ideas. Europe was too small. He wanted to take on the world. So the name changed to the World Economic Forum. And now the
00:03:01.440mission was to save the world, because the world needs saving. And they have their annual meetings at a famous Swiss ski
00:03:08.840resort called Davos. The place has essentially now become synonymous with the World Economic Forum meetings. And the
00:03:15.680World Economic Forum is now the world's glitziest networking event, not just for business leaders, but for
00:03:22.720politicians and other global elites. Everything from star academics and Hollywood celebs and everyone in
00:03:31.060between shows up to these meetings every year. Now, as for the World Health Organization, this is a bona fide
00:03:37.860international organization under the ages of the UN. But there's a big difference from most of the UN, which is that they
00:03:45.360receive a lot of private money. So here's a fun fact. After the US government, which is the biggest donor, the second
00:03:53.280biggest donor is not a country, but it's actually a foundation, a private foundation, the Bill and Melinda Gates
00:03:59.740Foundation. So the World Health Organization gets heavily influenced by the agendas of their donors. We know that Bill Gates
00:04:07.860has very strong opinions on public health issues. It goes back to the time of the HIV epidemic, where his
00:04:15.760foundation, I believe, overhyped the disease in places like India, distracting from more pressing public health
00:04:24.100concerns. More recently, the Gates Foundation has been very aggressive advocate for COVID-19 vaccination. And that's shown up in the
00:04:34.860World Health Organization's recommendations, and has no doubt influenced national governments around the world, including the Trudeau government in Canada.
00:04:43.860So what is the Trudeau government's connection to the World Economic Forum and World Health Organization? You might ask, well, who really cares?
00:04:53.860The reality is that the Trudeau government is very intimately tied to both outfits, the World Economic Forum and the World Health Organization.
00:05:02.860First, the World Economic Forum. Canada has actually given taxpayers money to the tune of $3 million this past fiscal year to the World Economic Forum. By no means is Canada alone in this. Other national governments have also done so.
00:05:17.860But what I find glaring and problematic here is the fact that Canada's Deputy Prime Minister, Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland, actually sits on the Board of Trustees, which is the top governing body of the World Economic Forum.
00:05:32.860And she's the only serving minister of any country who is on their board. I happened to discover this entirely by chance, and I wrote about it for the National Post back in 2021.
00:05:44.860I'm truly amazed that this is not considered conflict of interest because the World Economic Forum, let's face it, takes very strong and radical left wing positions on a range of issues from climate change to stakeholder capitalism.
00:05:59.860Stakeholder capitalism, for example, is a fancy way of saying we got the Anglo-American free market capitalism and put everyone else from trade unions to NGOs to politicians on an equal footing in governing a company. How absurd is that?
00:06:15.860There are also proponents of something called the Great Reset, which involves all of the above that I just mentioned.
00:06:22.860Look, if Freeland were a private individual, none of this would be an issue. She could serve on any board she wants to.
00:06:28.860But being the Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister of Canada, she's accountable to the people of Canada who certainly did not elect a government to pursue these radical left wing agendas, ideas.
00:06:40.860Just take an example. Let's say a health minister sat on the advisory board of a pharmaceutical company.
00:06:49.860Ironically, Freeland, before she became a politician, was a journalist and she was a vocal critic of the World Economic Forum.
00:06:58.860She wrote a famous book about them, calling them plutocrats. But here we are today. She's one of them now, as is Mark Carney, former governor of the Bank of Canada and the Bank of England, who sits on the board of the World Economic Forum, while at the same time he serves as UN special envoy on climate change.
00:07:18.860So when he was governor at the Bank of England, he pushed very aggressively to bring climate change under the remit of the central bank, which is really bizarre to say the least, because central banks are supposed to pursue monetary policy and inflation, not climate change.
00:07:35.860But Carney now, back in Canada, is a big player and a possible future finance minister and even prime minister in a post-Trudeau liberal government.
00:07:47.860As for the World Health Organization, Canada has pretty much stuck to the script set by them in responding to the pandemic.
00:07:54.860We've had some of the most stringent and ridiculous rules of any country around the world, barring, of course, Australia and New Zealand.
00:08:01.860Well, almost everyone else is getting rid of their vaccine mandates in the vaccine passport system.
00:08:06.860The Trudeau government clings to them even going against scientific consensus that vaccine mandates make no sense anymore.
00:08:14.860Even Bill Gates has said as much at the World Economic Forum meetings.
00:08:18.860A few days ago, the Conservatives brought in a motion in the House of Commons to do away with federal vaccine mandates.
00:08:25.860But of course, it was overwhelmingly defeated by the liberal NDP alliance.
00:08:30.860Meanwhile, the World Health Organization is cooking up this global cohort, a treaty which would bind member countries to do the World Health Organization's bidding in a future pandemic.
00:08:43.860So now to talk about the World Economic Forum and the World Health Organization is none less than Jeffrey Tucker, who many of you will know.
00:08:52.860Jeffrey is founder and president of Brownstone Institute, an NGO focused on public health, economics and freedom.
00:08:59.860He's a well-known critic of the World Health Organization and the World Economic Forum.
00:09:03.860He speaks widely on economics, technology, social philosophy and culture.
00:09:08.860He's the author of several books, the most recent one being Liberty or Lockdown.
00:09:13.860It's a privilege to have him on my podcast.
00:10:29.860And I believe these are things that could potentially destroy the foundations of Anglo-American free market capitalism and individual liberty.
00:12:25.860And, you know, the other thing is that the world economic form has become a sort of a venue for the world's most powerful capitalistic or private companies.
00:12:37.860In this case, I'm a pharmaceutical industry.
00:12:40.860So they're really pushing a global subscription model for for vaccines.
00:12:49.860So, you know, we all every month have to pay for our vaccines and then head down to the drugstore and have get our shot that the elite scientists say we have to get.
00:12:58.860This is what and I'm not making this up and you can go to the World Economic Forum's website and see this is exactly what you know.
00:13:06.860So we'll get to that a little later in the show.
00:13:08.860I just you know, this is pushing back against stuff that I've written myself.
00:13:13.860Are these people really all that powerful?
00:13:16.860You know, I feel like they've managed to achieve very, very little given their grand agendas, or maybe you think they've achieved much more than meets the eye.
00:13:26.860It's not for lack of trying. What do you what do you think about that?
00:13:32.860Yeah, I think a lot of it is is illusion. I think they tend to take credit for everything that's going on around them and they, you know, they're, you know, it's like, you know, in the 90s when we had a lot of terrorist bombings, you know, Al Qaeda would always say we did that we did that.
00:13:48.860So that's a little bit of economic forum, you know, everything that happens, they're like, Oh, we did that.
00:13:54.860So they enjoy being kind of scary and alarming people.
00:14:00.860I don't know, you know, I sometimes I think that a lot of it is illusion.
00:14:05.860And there's no question in my mind that that they've lost a lot of battles to, for example, the vaccine mandates and passports all throughout Europe and the Americas.
00:14:17.860They wanted those things. They've all they've been repealed, basically all over the world, except for maybe Canada.
00:14:24.860But so the World Economic Forum really lost that that debate.
00:14:29.860So public public anger terrifies them.
00:14:33.860Well, so I guess I mean, I guess, you know, they should just be honest about where they're coming from, right?
00:14:39.860We're just going to this big party at this fancy Swiss ski resort at taxpayers expense in some cases.
00:14:48.860We're just there to network with other rich and powerful people.
00:14:52.860Perhaps this is how they could be, you know, they should be a little honest about this.
00:14:57.860And and maybe that would be closer to the truth.
00:15:01.860Yeah, it's just a country club of some sort.
00:15:04.860But but, you know, for for these people, you know, once you have enough money, it's not very satisfying.
00:15:10.860What you want, aside from money, is power, right?
00:15:15.860So so that's what World Economic Forum offers all these people.
00:15:19.860It's like where you can hang around with fancy people, wear fancy clothes and eat good food and and spend a lot of money.
00:15:26.860But what does that get you if you're not running the world?
00:15:28.860So the World Economic Forum gives them the opportunity to pretend like, you know, with the thing that always surprises me is the number of people who accept the invitation to become, you know, a fellow or a member of the World Economic Forum.
00:15:51.860Now, if I were Elon Musk and I got an email from Klaus Schwab saying I'd like you to be part of the World Economic Forum, I'd say I'd just delete it and say, well, you're an idiot.
00:16:04.860But, you know, going back to the agenda of the World Economic Forum, you know, when you when you think about vision, for example, and you even a vision, you work towards it year after year for decades.
00:16:17.860So, you know, when you look back at history, if you look at the National Socialists or the Communists, for example, they were fighting the battle of ideas for the hearts and minds of people for decades long before the rise of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, for that matter.
00:16:32.860So, you know, and here we have an example here in North America, people who advocated against smoking, for example, worked on this for decades before it actually became before they actually got their way.
00:16:45.860So would you say that bit by bit Schwab and his network are working towards this goal, towards a goal where they're doing it incrementally so as not to scare people off?
00:16:54.860And, you know, and to borrow a term that I've heard from former Prime Minister Stephen Harper, former Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, it's a bit like relentless gradualism.
00:17:06.860You have a goal, but you move towards it slowly but surely.
00:17:12.860I think that's exactly what they have in mind and they've got a long term vision.
00:17:16.860And my guess is that right now they're very angry about all the things that they've lost.
00:17:22.860Now, keep in mind, though, that they have won a lot, too.
00:17:25.860I mean, for example, I can't travel outside of the United States and get back into the country without taking a COVID test.
00:17:33.860Now, that's that's and I have to pay for it myself.
00:17:35.860That was inconceivable, you know, just three years ago that we would have had those kind of conditions for coming into this country as citizens themselves.
00:17:45.860So there's all kinds of freedoms we've given up that we have not come anywhere near to say nothing about the fact that it's children in New York schools are masked or that, you know, now we have a CDC that believes that that that that, you know, it's all powerful and they can put anybody in mask and attend they want.
00:18:02.860So there's a lot of really bad things that have happened, but they've also lost a lot, too.
00:18:08.860I'm thinking that their ideas that they just want to buy their time until the population settles down and then start all over again.
00:18:15.860And I think that's exactly what they have in mind, which is why the citizens of this world need to be alert to this and prevent this from happening.
00:18:27.860And we've had a great deal of success so far in dialing back some of their plans that they've had for us.
00:18:34.860So far, we've been pretty darn successful, but they're going to start waiting again the second we relent.
00:18:40.860Right. And, you know, back here in Canada, I don't know if you're aware of this, but our deputy prime minister and finance minister, Chrystia Freeland, sits on their advisory board.
00:18:51.860She was a former journalist. She went from being one of their biggest critics.
00:18:55.860She wrote this book about them, calling them plutocrats.
00:18:59.860Now she's on the board of trustees of the World Economic Forum, the top governing body of this organization.
00:19:05.860I'm amazed that this is not seen as considered as conflict of interest under Canadian law.
00:19:11.860What is your take on politicians getting involved with with these private clubs?
00:19:16.860You know, that pretend they're international organizations.
00:19:19.860They have completely explicit collectivist agendas.
00:19:23.860And when this is pointed pointed out, those of us pointing this out are labeled conspiracy theorists.
00:19:31.860But, you know, as you said, I mean, you don't the agenda is right on their website.
00:19:35.860You just have to go to the World Economic Forum and you can see that they're saying exactly this.
00:19:40.860So what do you what do you say about people who, you know, consider themselves centrist and moderates when they call the rest of us conspiracy theorists for pointing out what is actually factual?
00:19:52.860I think it seems to me it's a good agenda for the future that we should start shaming these people for their associations more and more.
00:20:00.860And, yeah, they're going to call you a conspiracy theorist. But but if if, you know, one person gets 10,000 notes saying how dare you be associated with the World Economic Forum, they might rethink their renewal of their membership.
00:20:12.860Think, well, this is getting too costly for me because these people want to be like they want to be popular.
00:20:16.860So if they get shamed for their associations, I think that would be good.
00:20:21.860I mean, we could bring down the World Economic Forum just through that means alone.
00:20:25.860If if there's a higher cost to being associated with them, then they get benefit.
00:20:30.860They'll resign and go. I think that would be absolutely brilliant.
00:20:33.860So thank you for that suggestion. I really I think it's a good one.
00:20:36.860And yeah, they will call you all kinds of names, but it's ridiculous.
00:20:40.860I mean, Brownstone is a as a reputable organization with a with a with a reputation to uphold because of all the high level scientists,
00:20:50.860with which we're associated. But we've been very aggressive on on the World Economic Forum and the World Health Organization and all these topics.
00:20:59.860If I can document what they're doing, then I don't have a problem running an article about it.
00:21:03.860So I like contributing to this to the I guess, for lack of a better term, public anger.
00:21:09.860I think it's important. I mean, the anger is effective and we can't figure out any other way to control them.
00:21:18.860And I think it's it's important to point these potential conflicts of interest, especially if you are a politician, if you're a finance minister of a country and you sit on the board of a private club.
00:21:30.860The optics of that look terrible, in my opinion. And and I have no idea why that is not a bigger concern here in Canada.
00:21:38.860I mean, it just it's very perplexing. But it is very frustrating.
00:21:42.860I know what you mean. Like here in the United States, we have we have the the cooperation between big pharma, big government and and the FDA and the regulators is so tight.
00:22:04.860I mean, it's actually one of the disturbing aspects of this is that they're so sure they can get away with it that they don't even feel the need to hide it anymore.
00:22:12.860So I think that's an opportunity for us. Let's let's do the research, document it, write articles and see if we can get a real movement going going on here.
00:22:24.860OK, so changing gears just a bit, you know, pivoting to the World Health Organization, you've expressed concerns about the World Health Organization, as many of us saw the onset of the pandemic.
00:22:38.860The World Health Organization essentially believed every word communist China told them and even adopted China's zero covid approach.
00:22:47.860Should we be concerned, you know, Canadians, Americans, particularly because our countries work so closely with the World Health Organization?
00:22:56.860It's a very different organization than it was decades ago when the World Health Organization's main job, I guess you could say, was to promote smallpox vaccination around the world.
00:23:11.860And they in that sense that they made a really important contribution to its eradication.
00:23:16.860I mean, you know, they would go go around, you know, especially, you know, in the in the 70s, in the 1980s, 60s and 70s, poor countries and helping their their medical systems and the doctors and the nurses get access to good supplies and educate people about what they know about the science involved and so on.
00:23:39.860It was very good organization really served a very important function.
00:23:46.860And I had no particular reason to be disturbed by the World Health Organization, even in 2019.
00:23:52.860I I didn't really see that there was anything going wrong.
00:23:55.860In fact, their pandemic plans never called for lockdowns.
00:23:59.860They were really against travel restrictions.
00:24:02.860They didn't think you should close schools in the event of a virus or anything like that.
00:24:09.860I don't know if it was when Tedros took over or but China got its hooks in there sometime in late 2019, early 2020.
00:24:21.860And by certainly by the middle of February, the World Health Organization had turned itself entirely over to being a Communist Party propaganda outfit.
00:24:32.860And the World Health Organization deserves, I would say, a huge part of the blame for the for the lockdowns, because what happened is they cooperated directly with the Chinese Communist Party to set up a kind of travel junket by scientists in the US and in Europe and with WHO.
00:24:57.860And that lasted from about February 16 to February 24.
00:25:02.860And what happened is the CCP brought this team of people into the in there and went to five cities and said, Oh, look, we eradicated COVID through our brutal treatment of our population, locking everybody in their homes and shutting everything down.
00:25:17.860But it worked. And the World Health Organization, you know, fools, got a report two days after the end of all those meetings and said, That's right, they did it the right way.
00:25:30.860WHO knows how to control SARS-CoV-2 that I mean, that report is still on their their website today is written by an American, by the way, who works for WHO graduate of Stanford University.
00:25:46.860So but but but but that report was very crucial to inspiring lockdowns that happen all over the world.
00:25:59.860And so and so and so at that point, you could look at that point, you could look to the World Health Organization and say, See, this is what they're recommending that we follow the CCP model and that's when they went to Trump.
00:26:18.860That's that's what they how they persuaded them. They said, Look, there's this fancy powerful man in China who eradicated the virus. She can do the same thing.
00:26:32.860And this is exactly what the World Health Organization is recommending. Look at this report.
00:26:37.860So that's kind of intimidating and kind of scary. And so Trump reluctantly agreed and then the rest is history.
00:26:45.860So I think the WHO deserves a lot of the blame for what happened.
00:26:51.860You know, I 100 percent agree with you. Why do you suppose China has this outsized influence on the World Health Organization?
00:26:57.860They're not the biggest donor to the World Health Organization. What is behind this?
00:27:02.860I don't know. Nobody's ever asked me that before.
00:27:05.860Just thinking through it quickly, the largest donor to the World Health Organization is, of course, Bill Gates.
00:27:11.860He's the second largest donor. The largest donor is the U.S. government.
00:27:18.860He's the second largest non-governmental donor.
00:27:21.860That's right. Well, the largest non-governmental donor is Bill Gates. Right.
00:27:25.860Yeah. So and probably he developed some really close ties with China over the course of his business career.
00:27:35.860You know, I really don't have an answer, but that's my first thought.
00:27:39.860I know for sure the Gates Foundation and the CCP have worked very closely together.
00:27:44.860There's networks of scientists and institutional connections there with vaccine with vaccine companies.
00:27:50.860So may have something to do with that, but I don't I'm not entirely sure.
00:27:56.860The other thing that's interesting is is that recently there's been a fissure opened up between the World Health Organization, the CCP and Tedros.
00:28:08.860They've been arguing with each other back and forth because Tedros criticized the Shanghai lockdowns for going too far, something like that.
00:28:19.860Right. And and so and then with all these amendments that to the international health regulations proposed by the U.S., the CCP really objected to them.
00:28:31.860And that was a major reason why they were mostly withdrawn.
00:28:35.860So there seems to be some. Oh, the other thing is that the Chinese Communist Party blocked searches for Tedros's name.
00:28:47.860That was last month within China because.
00:28:51.860Yeah, because Tedros was criticized Shanghai.
00:28:54.860So there seems to be some differences of opinion have opened up.
00:28:58.860So there are some fissures that we're seeing.
00:29:01.860Yeah, I think so. But I mean, my own personal view is that the U.S. and Canada, every country in the world should just pull out of the WHO until they get their act together again and start promoting public health instead of running these political rackets all over the world like has happened.
00:29:17.860Something corrupted that institution very, very deeply.
00:29:21.860And and I don't think I mean, they they deserve primary responsibility for for massive collapse in public health and so many disasters over the last two and a half years.
00:29:34.860They just there needs to be some sort of accounting until there is.
00:29:37.860I don't see how any government should be a part of it.
00:29:40.860And if in the U.S., I promise you, if somebody like DeSantis gets to be president, we'll be pulled out of there in no time.
00:29:48.860Well, I mean, we're doing the opposite, right?
00:29:51.860We're we're we're actually advocating this global pandemic treaty from the World Health Organization.
00:29:57.860And that is a treaty that concerns me as well.
00:30:00.860And the pushback that I've received in criticizing the treaty is that, look, no one's putting a gun to your head.
00:30:07.860No one's putting a gun to anyone's head.
00:30:09.860Nations sometimes voluntarily seed a national sovereignty, you know, a piece of their national sovereignty when they sign on to treaties like this with international or transnational organizations, perhaps because it's in everyone's interest to do so.
00:30:25.860So there are some obvious examples of this NATO, which was a bulwark against communism.
00:30:31.860And then you had the GATT, which became the World Trade Organization, which, despite its many failings, I think has contributed to global prosperity by by ensuring there's a modicum of free trade in the system.
00:30:43.860I personally feel that these organizations have done some good and they've served a purpose, but still do.
00:30:50.860But the World Health Organization is a different beast altogether.
00:30:53.860You know, for one thing, as you said, they've gotten everything wrong about the pandemic.
00:31:52.860So they went the opposite opposite way.
00:31:54.860Every nation that signs on to this WHO treaty will then feel the kind of this default obligation to go along lockdown for the next time as if they're codified into the world system.
00:32:07.860That's just what we do in the case of a pandemic.
00:32:11.860And if you're a politician who doesn't agree with that, so it becomes really dangerous for you because you're not just standing up to other politicians in your country.
00:32:21.860Now you're standing up against, you know, the prestigious, wonderful science filled World Health Organization.
00:32:41.860And, you know, I think there's been some pushback by countries around the world.
00:32:47.860There's a lot of concern about what that would actually mean, you know, in responding to a future pandemic.
00:32:55.860Clearly, the World Health Organization is flawed to the coordinating agency for, you know, for a global response.
00:33:03.860The question, I guess, is do we really even want a global solution to this that involves some international coordination or are we better off if each country does its own thing?
00:33:16.860In the United States, we have a system that's called federalism here, where every state was able to do its own thing.
00:33:22.860It's the only thing that saved us because, you know, North South Dakota never locked down at all.
00:33:29.860And then and then Georgia was the first state to open after about a month.
00:33:33.860And then Florida came later, a couple of months later, and then Texas came after that.
00:33:37.860And all these states have very good records in terms of COVID mortality.
00:33:43.860But then also they didn't destroy their economies fundamentally.
00:33:46.860So now they're they're economically prosperous and doing well.
00:33:51.860And other states like like New York and California are suffering terribly.
00:33:57.860So we need that kind of decentralized approach.
00:34:00.860I agree with you. We don't need a coordinated.
00:34:02.860This is one of the things that you always get from these people like, well, we need more coordination and we need more centralization.
00:34:23.860But if it's decentralized, then you have experimentation and pandemic response will always require that kind of experimentation because knowledge unfolds in real time.
00:34:34.860You don't you don't know just because a pathogen has a name exactly what the demographics of impact are going to be.
00:34:43.860You don't know the therapeutics necessarily.
00:34:48.860You don't know what the case fatality rate or the infection fell out of fatality rate is, or the existing, existing serial prevalence data.
00:34:55.860We don't. I mean, even today, we don't know precisely when the very first infection of SARS-CoV-2 is was or where.
00:35:05.860So it's there's a lot you don't know in the midst of pandemic.
00:35:10.860When there's that kind of uncertainty, you need decentralized experimentation more than anything else.
00:35:16.860I mean, the World Health Organization could be a good organization if it really did promote things like, you know, disease eradication through safe and effective, well-tested vaccines and that sort of thing.
00:35:29.860That's that's a role for that, but but it's not in promoting this political agenda that they started doing.
00:35:38.860Yeah. I mean, my own opinion is that I think we need some minimal amount of international coordination, but not through a binding treaty, but maybe perhaps through some voluntary agreement of some sort where, you know, there's a lot of information sharing between countries.
00:35:54.860But I agree with you, a more decentralized approach would make more sense.
00:35:58.860But, you know, even if a country signs on to this binding international treaty or any international treaty for that matter, it can always revoke it and simply assert its national sovereignty.
00:36:10.860And an example of this is the Schengen, a Schengen area in Europe.
00:36:15.860The Schengen treaty essentially allows members to cross borders pass without a passport.
00:36:22.860But yet in the spring of 2020, each country or many countries in the Schengen region just decided that their national interest was took priority and they closed their borders.
00:36:34.860And the Schengen treaty was seen as sacrosanct.
00:36:38.860Yet this happened in the spring of 2020, shortly after the pandemic was declared.
00:36:43.860So I guess I guess my point is, should we should we you know, why should we worry about this World Health Organization treaty?
00:36:52.860Because ultimately, countries will do what they want or should we be worried that a bureaucrat sitting in Geneva will tell us what to do, even if it doesn't make any sense?
00:37:02.860Well, because we'll all be forced to go along with it.
00:37:05.860Well, the problem is in those kind of disease panics.
00:37:07.860And you remember this when when everybody's terrified of the new pathogen, you've got enough to worry about to deal with that.
00:37:16.860You don't want to also have to waste all your political capital arguing against something that's coming down from them.
00:37:22.860And the World Health Organization will be an organization to amplify the lockdown message.
00:37:26.860So they'll make their pronouncements. It's pandemics time to lock down.
00:37:30.860The New York Times will get involved and the Toronto.
00:37:33.860So, you know, so you the media will jump on that broadcast that.
00:37:37.860Well, they'll try to intimidate the politicians.
00:37:39.860It just becomes more difficult for them to resist these these commands from the top.
00:37:46.860I you know, you're right about information sharing.
00:37:48.860People should be encouraged to share information.
00:37:50.860And that's that's if that's all the treaty was about.
00:37:54.860I mean, you know, one of the things that was terrible in China is that we were getting really good information in in early January and by late January was all shut down.
00:38:04.860Right. So they shut their scientists down.
00:38:06.860We were getting so if the if the treaty is about, you know, urging nation states to share information with each other in the interest of public health globally, that's that's worth doing.
00:38:17.860It's it's not a good treaty if it's urging one single policy response that we know it doesn't work.
00:38:23.860And here's the other thing that scandalizes me about this treaty is, you know, they're still arguing for what they call a whole of society, whole of government approach to pandemics.
00:38:35.860And so that's that's what the treaty is is is pushing, despite all the carnage, all the disasters, the unworkability of anything.
00:38:44.860And we have all the science to show that the nations of lockdown didn't do any better than those.
00:38:51.860And not even China, right, than those who stayed open and China never got rid of SARS-CoV-2, contrary to what every expert has claimed for two years.
00:39:03.860We see it's popped it all over the place. It's in 30 cities already.
00:39:08.860And that's going to. But so here you have the WHO.
00:39:13.860So why are they still pushing lockdowns after all this? And I think it has something to do with politics.
00:39:18.860They they have this political agenda. I mean, lockdowns have been great for governments around the world to assert their power over individuals and over political communities.
00:39:28.860They just want more of it. Right. So final question, Jeff.
00:39:32.860You know, I used to look at these organizations like the World Economic Forum and the World Health Organization is fairly innocuous.
00:39:39.860I wasn't really paying much attention to them. And then my thinking really changed after the pandemic.
00:39:45.860And I kept reading and reading and I kept looking at what was happening around me.
00:39:49.860And something just wasn't adding up. And I started questioning these organizations more and more.
00:39:55.860Did that happen to you? When did your thinking about these organizations change or did you always view them as, you know, being these organizations that were, you know, sort of plotting behind the back, you know, in the background and, you know, trying to change our lives and trying to save the world?
00:40:13.860I'm trying to I'm trying to remember when Trump proposed that the US pull out of the WHO.
00:40:19.860I don't remember when that was, but whenever that was, it might have been in 2020, but it might have been shortly after the pandemic.
00:40:27.860Yeah. Well, so just to show you, we'll compare our level of naivety here.
00:40:33.860I was unaware at that time of the WHO role in pushing lockdowns.
00:40:40.860So I didn't really agree with Trump on this because I think diplomacy is a good thing.
00:40:46.860There's no reason to attack these organizations.
00:40:49.860I think he knew something I didn't know.
00:40:52.860I've been scared about lockdowns for 15 years because I knew that these plans were in place and I've been writing about this for 15 years.
00:41:01.860And even from January 2020, I was sounding the alarms that we could be locking down.
00:41:10.860I had no idea just how ferocious it would be, but I knew that there was a possibility.
00:41:15.860I just didn't, it took me a long time to figure out the role of the WHO.
00:41:21.860So I believe for a very long time, even though I was writing about this stuff daily, I believed it was all a mistake.
00:41:31.860You know, it was just all just kind of people had a bad idea in their heads.
00:41:35.860They thought they were going to suppress the virus.
00:41:38.860They should have known better and that the world would wake up to realize that Sweden took the right path and we'd open up all the economies by the summer of 2020 and deal with this as a normal textbook pathogen.
00:42:02.860And even on the WHO, I think it was, it wasn't really until fairly recently.
00:42:08.860I fully had the full sense of, and it was when I discovered and looked into this junket that they took in mid February, that's when I changed my mind.
00:42:18.860I realized, oh, they've been promoting this stuff from the very beginning.
00:42:22.860In fact, that was probably the main impetus for lockdowns.
00:42:44.860Yeah, I, I think they should be held to account.
00:42:47.860The fact that we're now pushing this pandemic treaty on the world suggests to me we're moving in the opposite direction.
00:42:55.860In, you know, that's not a good place to be in.
00:42:59.860But Jeff, I mean, I, this was a great conversation.
00:43:03.860I'm afraid I have to leave it there, but I really appreciate you coming on my podcast and, and I hope we can chat again sometime soon.
00:43:11.860I hope, I hope so too. And thank you for your wonderful work that you're doing on this.
00:43:15.860It's going to take all of us and as many voices we can gather to think seriously about these questions and, and never give out or give up hope.
00:43:24.860Our voices do matter in this great struggle.
00:43:36.860The bottom line is that there's nothing wrong with participation in or support of international organizations or international cooperation for that matter.
00:43:46.860So long as it's in our nation's interest.
00:43:49.860Canadians pay taxes and elect our leaders to work in our interests, not in the interests of faceless, nameless and unaccountable global bureaucrats sitting in Geneva or global elite with an extreme radical left wing agenda.
00:44:05.860Um, for example, on climate change, sitting in Davos, the attempt by global elites to subvert Canada's democracy is fully on and in plain view.