00:00:01.000Rachel Emanuel brings the news each day on Alberta Roundup, she has her say.
00:00:11.000Hey everyone, welcome back to the Alberta Roundup. I'm your host, Rachel Emanuel. Today, I am joined by fan favorite and colleague, Andrew Lawton, to discuss his new book, Pierre Polyev, A Political Life. Andrew, welcome back to the show.
00:00:23.760Hey, good to be with you. Thanks for having me on.
00:00:25.540I am so impressed that you, how quickly you pump out these books. I think all of us are just amazed at the amount of work you get done. I'm surprised you have any time for vacation between all the things you're busy doing, but I know this will be a good read. So it's my understanding this is the first biography on Pierre Polyev. Did that surprise you that no one had rushed to write this topic before you got to it?
00:00:45.180No, because I rushed to write it before anyone else could. That was kind of my attitude on it. So I had had the idea really not long after he became the leader, but it wasn't until the fall of this year.
00:00:59.780So that was basically a year after he had become the leader that I really started working on it more formally. And I was nervous at that time that someone else would be writing it. And I was calling up all these people that I thought would be good to talk about for sources.
00:01:18.640And I'm like, Hey, you know, by the way, has anyone else reached out to you with a similar request? And I was kind of holding my cards close to my chest. So hoping that like no one else would say, Oh, hang on. That's a great idea. I can do it quicker.
00:01:29.440So in that sense, I I'm not surprised, surprised, but I think it was inevitable that someone was going to, and I I'm honored that that gets to be me.
00:01:37.460So when you talk about making calls to discuss with sources, you know, topics for the, for the book, what kind of access did you actually have, you know, for our readers who haven't maybe done this type of project for the before for themselves and myself, I've never written a book before. I'm just curious, you know, were Polyev's people willing to speak with you about all things related to Pierre Polyev?
00:01:54.860That's it depends. So the one thing I I'm very candid about a candid about is that Polyev himself did not agree to an interview for the book. I mean, he was obviously the, you know, the one interview that I would have loved to have gotten because then you could ask him about everything that everyone else has told you about him and really get a sense beyond what I'm able to get when I do like a 12 minute interview with him for my show.
00:02:16.460So he, for whatever reason, didn't agree to an interview. But I was grateful that a lot of people around him did speak his closest advisor and former romantic partner, Jenny Byrne spoke on the record, as did a number of his current and former colleagues in caucus staffers, friends, a couple of family members, and some of them were very candid on the record. Others were more glowing and in their praise just because of it.
00:02:41.800And then there were people that also said things on background that were quite critical in a way. So I've tried to capture what I think is a pretty holistic view of who this guy is, which I think is pretty significant.
00:02:54.180I mean, polling is showing everyone is looking at it that this guy is likely to be the next prime minister, whether you like him or not, understanding who he is, where he's come from, I think is crucially important.
00:03:05.820Obviously, you've mentioned there were some people who were willing to be critical on background because Polyev is obviously still the leader in anyone who wants.
00:03:11.800Involvement in conservative politics, especially federal conservative politics, they're going to be pretty wary of pissing him off and pissing people around him off.
00:03:19.120So were you at any point concerned that maybe people weren't exactly giving you the full truth or were too admirable or giving you too glossy of a picture because they still want to please the leader in hope of having a job with a conservative party?
00:03:30.860I wouldn't say I was worried about it. It's always a risk. And the one thing that I found quite interesting is that there was a lot of that.
00:03:39.100But that in and of itself is also revealing of something else, which is that there's a tremendous amount of loyalty that Polyev has cultivated from a lot of the people around him.
00:03:47.680Now, is that loyalty because people really like him and value him and respect him? Is it loyalty because they all want an appointment in his government?
00:03:54.960I don't know. I think it's probably more the former than the latter.
00:03:59.240But the one thing I will say in terms of my own process is that when I first started out interviewing people, I really wanted as many on the record interviews as possible.
00:04:09.560I wanted to be able to say I spoke to this person, this person, this person, this person.
00:04:13.920And after a few weeks of that, I realized, well, hang on that that I'd actually rather have information, regardless of whether it's on the record.
00:04:21.940And then I can then take that information and go and verify it and ask around, because what would happen is you'd get a little glimpse of something from someone.
00:04:29.720And then you'd mention that to someone else and they'd, oh, I remember that.
00:04:34.480And they'd tell you more about it. And then you take what they could do back to the first.
00:04:37.640And it was actually really interesting because in some cases I was writing about things that have gone back well over 20 years and memories can be very fickle things.
00:04:47.100So it was actually helpful sometimes to just not be on the record with someone, to let them be candid and then use that as sort of the baseline that I could do further research with.
00:04:56.260So obviously we're speaking specifically to an Alberta audience here.
00:05:02.200Do you think that my audience, after reading your book, are going to have, you know, a newfound appreciation for Polyev being from the West and feeling like he's really, really one of us?
00:05:10.500So I made, because I'm interested in it, but I also think it's relevant.
00:05:14.280I really went out of my way to talk about the Alberta roots that Polyev has, because those have been tremendously influential, not just to his own politics in life, but to, I'd say, the development of the conservative movement.
00:05:26.260I mean, this is a guy who, one of his first entries into politics was being on Preston Manning's riding board in Calgary Southwest.
00:05:33.260One of his first opportunities volunteering was phone banking for Jason Kenney back when he was running for the reform in 1997.
00:05:41.080So again, going back, you know, almost 30 years now.
00:05:43.800And I think that that has been really interesting because the modern conservative party has far more in common with the 1990s reform party than it does with the, you know, the Kim Campbell progressive conservative party.
00:05:56.960And a big part of that has been because Polyev has really been along for that evolution.
00:06:01.240So I think Albertans will, a lot of Albertans still see him as an Easterner, like he's an Ottawa MP, but I think there's a lot of the Alberta roots that people might not understand that I hope I shine a light on in the book.
00:06:14.020So I did speak with someone who's already read the book.
00:06:16.300They got their hands on an early copy and they said a sentiment they were left with after reading it is that Pierre Polyev is really someone who wanted to be prime minister from an early age and has worked towards this for a long time.
00:06:34.520But there's a difference between someone who has entertained that idea and someone who has spent their life making sure that every single thing they do is working towards that goal.
00:06:46.500And I'm not sure he falls into that latter category.
00:06:51.600I mean, I've spoken to people that have said they've had conversations with him going back to when he was running to be MP for the first time in 2004.
00:06:59.360And he talks about at some point in the future being finance minister or prime minister.
00:07:07.540But I don't think that his journey has been necessarily inauthentic as a result of that.
00:07:13.040I think a lot of what's happened has really been opportunity.
00:07:15.660I mean, who could have predicted the pandemic 20 years ago?
00:07:19.620Who could have predicted the shift even within the last 10 years of the Conservative Party going through the trajectory that it has post Stephen Harper?
00:07:28.000So I think in that sense, there has been a moment that he has seized, but he's also created moments as well.
00:07:34.360So you think for people reading this book, once they're finished, they're going to be left with a positive impression of Polyev?
00:08:22.860I think people who like him will perhaps appreciate it more.
00:08:26.880And I think people who are on the fence could come away with either perspective.
00:08:30.440But I'm not trying to persuade anyone or sell anyone on him.
00:08:34.500What's one of your favorite anecdotes from the book?
00:08:37.700Well, if I told you that, people wouldn't have to buy the book.
00:08:41.980Okay, there's a funny story about him pranking the vice president of Taiwan in the book.
00:08:47.800But you have to buy the book to find out what the prank is.
00:08:50.200And just in general, there was a little bit that I didn't really see or I don't see in him that I learned talking to people, which is his sense of humor.
00:08:59.960He actually quite likes practical jokes and has played them on his staff, some of which have actually been a little bit tawdry.
00:09:06.980So that was an interesting thing that I learned, which isn't, again, crucially important.
00:09:11.040But it's helpful in just finding a sense of his character that you don't see at a press conference or in his videos or on social media.
00:09:20.160Yeah, I absolutely wouldn't have expected him to be the practical joke type.