Juno News - May 16, 2022


The pro-life movement in Canada has failed (Ft. Sam Sey)


Episode Stats

Length

34 minutes

Words per Minute

190.0889

Word Count

6,622

Sentence Count

324

Misogynist Sentences

15

Hate Speech Sentences

18


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 The current discourse around Roe v. Wade that is spilling into Canada
00:00:03.900 proves that the country is not capable of having a moral discussion on abortion. It shows in some
00:00:10.280 ways that the pro-life movement in this country has failed. I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The
00:00:14.580 Candice Malcolm show. Hi everyone thank you so much for tuning into this show. So in Canada
00:00:32.320 abortion is no longer an issue about conscience. It's no longer an issue or discussion that we can
00:00:38.000 even have. Conservatives it seems are too afraid to push back because they're just terrified of the
00:00:43.980 issue. They don't want anything to do with it. That's the case for most of the people who are
00:00:48.160 running for leader and pro-life groups just simply aren't taken seriously. Meanwhile the media and
00:00:55.460 the left is pushing a discussion and a narrative that this is not a conversation that we want to
00:01:00.240 have. This is not a conversation that we can have. If we're going to talk about it we're going to only
00:01:04.580 talk about how to make more abortions happen. Not whether or not abortions are permissible, you know
00:01:12.320 what the limits should be, how we could regulate it. And I think that it just shows again that the
00:01:17.580 pro-life movement haven't been effective in this country. It's such a different conversation
00:01:21.680 in the U.S. than it is in Canada. People often ask me what my position is, what my stance is on this
00:01:28.320 issue. I think it's interesting because in conservative circles in Canada almost everyone
00:01:32.180 that you talk to is opposed to abortion in some way shape or form but also they're very reluctant
00:01:38.160 to have the conversation. Many people just don't feel comfortable talking about it. They don't want
00:01:42.040 it to dominate the political cycle because they feel like conservatives lose whenever the topic
00:01:48.020 gets discussed. I think it's one of those issues that is simplified to an absurd extent. The media does
00:01:54.860 a complete disservice. In this case it gets boiled down to basically bumper sticker slogans that represent
00:02:02.700 two extremes. So on the one side, if you're pro-life, it generally means that you are against abortions
00:02:08.660 under any circumstances, no abortions ever, no matter what. And then the other side, pro-choice sort of
00:02:13.740 boils down to women have the right to abort their baby right up until the moment that they are born. I think
00:02:20.060 that those are two extremes and that most Canadians, overwhelming majority of Canadians, fall somewhere in
00:02:25.660 the middle. There's many, many shades of gray. There are many nuances, many important conversations to be had
00:02:32.340 again. Personally, for me, I am morally very opposed to abortion. I think that every life deserves
00:02:39.240 protecting. Every life has sanctity and that abortion is just a horrible, horrible tragedy.
00:02:44.860 I want to start with Jordan Peterson and say that by the time we're talking about abortion and whether
00:02:49.460 you're pro-life or pro-choice, there's already been a series of so many horrible mistakes that it's hard
00:02:54.160 to reconcile. And I think that that's right, that people should have sort of understanding and
00:02:59.760 compassion. I think that for a conservative and someone who's more on the free market side of
00:03:04.220 things, I also don't want to live in a world where a very vulnerable young woman has to make a very
00:03:09.540 difficult decision where she could be potentially forced into a black market. So I think that there
00:03:14.240 is some nuance and it's definitely not a black and white issue. I think it's an issue that we should
00:03:18.820 talk about and it requires discussion, debate, facts, critical thinking, and less sloganeering.
00:03:23.880 Unfortunately, that's not what we get from our political class. It's certainly not what we get
00:03:27.500 from the media. And so to join me today to have a fuller conversation, I'm very pleased to be
00:03:32.800 welcomed by Samuel Say. Samuel is a fellow and a contributor here at True North. He's the author
00:03:38.680 of a website called Slow to Write, where he covers topics such as race, culture, and politics from a
00:03:44.240 Christian perspective. He's been published on many publications, including over at the Daily Wire
00:03:49.020 and the Blaze. Samuel, it's such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for joining us today.
00:03:52.280 Thank you for having me. I'm very grateful. You know, I think, you know, I'm glad that you'd be
00:03:59.520 willing to talk to me because, as you said earlier, a lot of people in Canada, in the media do not talk
00:04:05.020 about abortion. You know, so, you know, as I'm listening to your intro, I actually disagree with
00:04:09.660 you on certain things. And I think you know that. So I'm grateful that you'd want me to come on
00:04:14.060 because obviously I would say that abortion is a black and white issue. But yeah, of course, you know,
00:04:18.940 it's good to talk about these things so that, you know, the viewers can also listen in and be more
00:04:23.160 informed on your thoughts and my thoughts as well. Yeah, well, that is why I wanted to have you on.
00:04:28.980 And I think that, again, on this issue, the more that we have the discussion and debate, the better
00:04:33.360 because maybe you'll hear something from me that you hadn't thought about or that will change your
00:04:37.780 opinion a little bit. And maybe I'll hear something from you that I find very convincing. I think that
00:04:41.700 it's definitely one of those issues for me that my thinking has changed over the years. And I think that
00:04:48.340 the way that it's framed, again, in the media, you know, in some ways, it's like, if you're pro-choice,
00:04:54.520 like I'm for choice in general, right? Like, I think that people should be able to choose where they go to
00:04:59.460 school, what kind of doctor they have, I think that we should have more choice in the economy, more, I would
00:05:03.260 love Canada, just have more choice in things. And so, you know, that that word choice is very positive. I
00:05:08.460 think a lot of people resonate with that. And the other side, obviously, everyone's pro-life, because
00:05:12.660 everyone believes in, in protecting life and the dignity of life. And, you know, otherwise,
00:05:17.460 who wouldn't be here? So it's to me, it's back. Maybe maybe you can explain your thinking on the
00:05:22.240 issue. Yeah, I actually disagree that I think everyone is pro-life. I mean, you, you're seeing
00:05:28.260 in the reactions in Canada and in the US of people who are very proud about being able to kill the
00:05:33.980 preborn baby, people who are shouting their abortion, people who are demanding that they should
00:05:39.060 even increase, increase the laws in America so that they can kill more babies. You know,
00:05:45.620 so that, I mean, you know, you mentioned choice earlier, of course, I also believe in choice. I
00:05:50.260 want people to have a choice to do anything. You know, I am a off the free market. Some would,
00:05:55.940 you know, I would call myself a libertarian in many ways. And yet, I would say that the choice about
00:06:01.060 abortion is that, you know, they're not, they're choosing to harm another person, they're choosing to
00:06:06.020 harm a defenseless, innocent, innocent baby. I think that's where oftentimes people, you know,
00:06:13.380 when they talk about abortion or the choice issue, we forget that it's not just a choice you're doing
00:06:18.980 with your body, there's a choice where you're harming somebody else also in their body. Because
00:06:23.940 of course, abortion does not harm a woman's body primarily. Abortion is harming a different body,
00:06:29.060 a living, breathing, well, living, growing human being.
00:06:34.100 Well, when I said pro-life, I meant that most people are opposed to murder. And most people
00:06:39.540 believe that that life is worth protecting, you know, that there's more worth in life. But it's
00:06:44.820 just that they draw a line as to where where life begins. And it's interesting to see any pushback
00:06:50.980 against the topic of when life begins, because I think there's been a lot of advances in science,
00:06:56.980 medicine, you know, ultrasounds. Yeah, for me personally, I was able to hear my son's heartbeat
00:07:04.180 in the room at six weeks, which I didn't even know that that was possible. And to me, it was such a
00:07:09.540 beautiful sound. And from that point, right, it's like, that's a baby in there. And the doctor refers
00:07:16.500 to it as a baby. So it's kind of like, to me, a little ghoulish when I hear political activists
00:07:22.820 tell me that it's not a baby, it's a fetus. It's like, but but it's a baby, like, ask my doctor.
00:07:28.180 And, you know, I can see in the ultrasound that the baby's developing. And I can see,
00:07:32.980 I can see with my own eyes, what's happening in there. And so I always find it, you know,
00:07:37.140 as a mother, very ghoulish, when I hear people talk about how they want to protect abortion up to,
00:07:42.820 say, like, 20 weeks, or 25 weeks, it's like, even as someone who's carried children, it's like,
00:07:47.620 that's, that's, that's a baby. And even earlier than that. So I think, I think you're right about
00:07:53.140 that. Yeah. And, you know, the funny thing about, you know, when they refer to babies as just a fetus,
00:07:59.380 well, a fetus literally means, you know, means baby. That's really literally what it means in Latin.
00:08:07.460 So it's like, so what they're really saying is, it's not a baby, but it's a baby. It makes no sense.
00:08:12.900 And also, when you mentioned that you were able to hear your child's heartbeat at six weeks,
00:08:18.100 that's really beautiful. I always smile when I hear that. Well, I mean, actually, like babies,
00:08:23.620 a preborn baby's heartbeat can be, can be detected at three weeks. So it is, you know, so, you know,
00:08:30.500 and, and of course, scientifically, in terms of when life begins, scientifically, it is the fact is that
00:08:36.020 life begins at fertilization. When, of course, you know, you know, not to get too detailed here,
00:08:43.780 but of course you have the semen and the egg reproducing where that's where you can't, of
00:08:49.220 course, no one can trace my DNA through my father's, not to get weird here, my father's seed, you know,
00:08:54.580 seed or my mother's egg, but they could, they could trace my DNA from when I was a, when I was
00:09:03.700 reproduced, you know, as a zygote to the very first stage of human life. And that is what every
00:09:09.860 science textbook, everyone knows this. So that's where human humanity starts. That's where we become
00:09:17.140 a life. That's where we become human. So from that point on, we are growing as human beings. And of
00:09:23.940 course, if something is growing, they are alive. And so I've been alive, you've been alive since we were
00:09:30.180 reproduced. It's really interesting, because that's just so far from where the discussion is
00:09:35.860 in Canada, I noticed, obviously, with the with the Roe v. Wade decision and the leak, I think in
00:09:40.660 legal circles in the US, everyone admits and everyone knows that the Roe decision is a really
00:09:45.220 badly argument, argued decision, and it doesn't really hold a lot of ground. And yet, you know,
00:09:50.420 there's a lot of consternation and outrage over the fact that that the Supreme Court decision is going
00:09:55.380 to get overturned. And obviously, that's why they there's been such heated debates over Supreme Court
00:09:59.700 nominations in the US over the last several years. But it seems to me that you would probably want
00:10:04.500 elected officials at a local level making this decision in a country like the United States,
00:10:09.140 it's so broad, diverse and different values in a place like California, versus a place like Texas or
00:10:16.020 Alabama. So it seems like a lot of sort of political hay over something that, you know, having local
00:10:23.460 people make this decision, and not an appointed judge seems better. What's your take on Roe and
00:10:30.740 the leak? And then maybe you can comment about why you think this issue is spilling into the
00:10:34.740 conversation here in Canada? Man, yeah, there's so much to say about that. So one is, you know,
00:10:41.220 the so called pro choice movement talks about being pro choice, but clearly, they're not really pro choice.
00:10:46.820 I would say even in the very issue of killing, killing a baby killing a preborn baby,
00:10:52.260 but beyond that, politically, they're not pro choice, because if they were really pro choice,
00:10:55.860 and they would want people to be able to vote on the issue, they would want California to make their
00:11:01.140 choice on the issue. And they would want Texas or Ohio, Mississippi, Alabama, to make their choice on
00:11:07.220 the issue. But that's not what they want. In the same way, they don't really want a woman to have a real
00:11:12.260 choice. People just want the rights to kill a baby. And it's sad. That's often because sometimes
00:11:18.660 they don't they believe they don't have any alternative, which of course, is not true.
00:11:23.380 That's a real choice, right? There is a choice where people can choose to protect their babies,
00:11:29.620 either by going for adoption, or by believing that they can persevere that they are strong enough to
00:11:35.140 take care of their own babies. As my mother did when my father left my family before, before,
00:11:41.300 before I was born, when my mom was pregnant with me in Ghana. And look, being a single mother is hard
00:11:47.140 anywhere. But being a single mother in West Africa, especially the time in the late 80s is very, very
00:11:53.140 difficult. So anyway, so I think this goes to show that, you know, people, a lot of people in the US
00:11:59.860 just do not want states to have the choice women, men to be able to have a choice to vote on this issue.
00:12:06.260 And I think the reason why it's also spilling into Canada is because of course, our nations are very
00:12:11.940 connected in so many ways. And oftentimes, the political issues in the US are or become political
00:12:18.420 issues also in Canada, as we've seen already that politicians have had to answer on what they think
00:12:24.020 about Roe v. Wade already, especially the conservative leadership race. And also because
00:12:31.620 abortion is an issue here, too. There are people here who, like me, do not like abortion, because we
00:12:39.380 don't like, again, innocent children, innocent, you know, children to be killed, or any children to be
00:12:44.740 killed. But also, it's because we don't have a law here in Canada, we don't have a single law protecting
00:12:51.860 preborn babies in this country. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's spilling into our country.
00:12:57.460 Well, it is, it is sort of interesting. And I noticed that in the US, well, just just to comment
00:13:03.460 on the whole choice thing. That's clearly a euphemism that the left doesn't stand by, right?
00:13:08.500 They, they say, you know, my body, my choice, and they scream out the windows. And then I mean,
00:13:12.820 this is something that's pointed out every minute on Twitter. But it's like, that standard doesn't
00:13:16.740 apply when it comes to vaccines, that standard doesn't apply, even when it comes to many other
00:13:21.140 things. So it's not a consistent standard is a euphemism, that that women are told that they have
00:13:26.660 complete autonomy over their body. And if they want to have the same sort of economic rights as men,
00:13:31.140 and that means that they have to have the right to not be pregnant, which which is, is again,
00:13:36.100 a euphemism to cover up even in the term abortion is a euphemism to cover up the sort of heinous thing
00:13:42.580 that happens when when that procedure is carried out. But I want to ask you about in Canada, like why
00:13:50.660 there isn't more of a political appetite around this issue? Why you think conservative politicians sort of
00:13:56.100 shy away from? I want to show you a clip because Andrew Coyne over at the CBC made this made this
00:14:01.700 point about how the abortion debate just makes conservatives feel uncomfortable. And he thinks
00:14:06.580 that's because they know that they're wrong, and they know that they're offside. So I want to play
00:14:10.740 this clip because I think it represents how many sort of elites and liberals think about this issue.
00:14:15.380 And then I'll get you to respond.
00:14:17.620 As Althea said, it's not only predictable, we've seen this movie over and over again.
00:14:22.580 It's true that the liberals, in some senses, like to bring the airship up over and over again,
00:14:27.620 so as to make the conservatives uncomfortable. But the fact that the conservatives are uncomfortable
00:14:32.180 kind of settles the issue for me. You know, what party is this that's going to propose legislation
00:14:37.860 to restrict abortion? The reason the conservatives are so uncomfortable is they can read the polls the
00:14:42.740 same as anybody else, and it would be politically suicidal for them to do so.
00:14:46.180 So the liberals, it is a double-edged sword for them at the same time because, as Mr. Jagmeet Singh
00:14:52.420 was pointing out, they've been in power for seven years now. There are still the same issues
00:14:57.380 surrounding access to abortion that there were when they came into power. Mr. Trudeau has been
00:15:02.660 talking about, maybe we'll bring in legislation that will make it impossible for any future government
00:15:07.220 to restrict abortion. I'm not sure what he means short of a constitutional amendment. But if there were
00:15:13.220 any possibility of the liberals finally and fully settling this issue, I don't think they'd take
00:15:19.700 it because it would take away from them the ability to bring it up again and again to beat
00:15:23.540 the Tories over the head with. So everyone's playing to the same political incentives that they always
00:15:28.500 have. So Sam, I'm wondering if you can give us your thoughts on what Andrew Coyne said there.
00:15:34.340 Yeah. So, you know, how do I explain this? Mr. Coyne is right to call out the conservative
00:15:48.340 party's thinking on this, and that it's absolutely impacted by the polls. But the polls are also not
00:15:56.180 really accurate in the sense that, so the polling does show that Canada is more radically pro-abortion
00:16:04.900 than America is. However, when it depends on what questions are asked, if when many Canadians are
00:16:13.460 asked, do you support abortion? Overwhelmingly, unfortunately, they say yes. But when they're asked
00:16:19.300 about, when they're told about the abortion laws in the country, which most Canadians are not aware of,
00:16:24.180 the abortion laws in the country, when they are told about the abortion laws in the country,
00:16:28.100 and then they're asked, for example, they're told that, look, abortion is completely legal at all
00:16:32.980 stages of pregnancy. Do you want a law that limits abortion? Overwhelmingly, the polls have said that,
00:16:39.620 I think it's about 90% of Canadians say that they want a law on abortion. So the polls are misleading.
00:16:46.900 And when, again, they know about what's really happening in Canada with abortion,
00:16:51.140 and they know the numbers, which is 100,000 babies, relatively over the last 15, 20 years,
00:16:58.180 they are appalled by it. And many of them, many Canadians want limits on abortion at the very
00:17:02.980 least. So unfortunately, that's not being said a lot in the media. So then the conservative
00:17:09.300 politicians then, frankly, choose to be cowardly about it. Because I think that if they were to push
00:17:13.780 that, if they were to make it known, as the Republicans have made it known about what's
00:17:18.180 happening in abortion in their country, if the conservative party were to make it known and to
00:17:22.100 run on that issue, I think it would be a very, for many candidates, it'd be a winning issue.
00:17:27.700 And frankly, also as an immigrant, and as a Black Canadian, a lot of immigrants really dislike abortion.
00:17:36.420 Many immigrants coming from Southeast Asia, from Africa, from the Caribbean, are opposed to abortion.
00:17:44.020 But again, oftentimes, people are unaware of the issue. So it's on the pro-life movement to continue
00:17:49.620 to bring public awareness. It's also on the on the political candidates, who if they really care about
00:17:55.380 abortion, to make it known as to what the laws are in this country, and what they can do to protect
00:18:02.900 the preborn babies in our country. I think you're totally right about many,
00:18:06.820 many new Canadians. I know a family friend that's from the Philippines, and basically,
00:18:12.100 his mother would just call anytime there's an election, she would just call all the political
00:18:16.180 offices and ask what their stance was on abortion. And that's who she would vote for no matter what.
00:18:20.740 And if none of the candidates were opposed to abortion, she just wouldn't vote. And that was
00:18:23.940 that was like, literally the only issue. And I've known from just talking to people and going to
00:18:28.820 conventions and talking to Canadians, new Canadians that many, many of them feel very, very strongly
00:18:34.980 on this issue. I, I do want to sort of agree with that point that you made about the way that the
00:18:40.180 polls are worded, because I'll just give you an example. I pulled up this Leger poll that said that
00:18:45.700 four and five respondents said that they were in favor of a woman's right to abortion if she chooses,
00:18:51.300 and only 14% are opposed. I would say that the wording of that is so vague, right? Because it's like,
00:18:58.020 you know, a woman's right to an abortion. Well, first of all, women don't have the right to an
00:19:02.980 abortion. As you said, there's no law in this country. It's not a constitutionally protected
00:19:06.260 right. So the fact that they would use that word a woman's right, makes you think that she that
00:19:11.300 there is this right in Canada, which there's not. But then also, you know, I think most people think,
00:19:17.460 you know, a right to an abortion, maybe in the very early stages of the pregnancy,
00:19:22.580 before the baby's developed, or, you know, with very little knowledge about the start of life and,
00:19:28.260 and, and the development, like, it's just an abstract question, right? It's not a specific
00:19:32.740 question. Like, if I think if you boil down and said, are you comfortable with a second trimester
00:19:38.180 abortion, I think more Canadians would say no. Are you comfortable with a sex selective abortion when
00:19:44.260 people say, I don't want to have a daughter, and so I'm going to abort the daughter,
00:19:47.460 and hope that next time I have a son. Those kind of things are just sort of unconscionable to
00:19:53.700 most Canadians, I would I would assume, but the way that these polls are worded, don't don't leave
00:19:59.140 that there's another clip from the same panel on power and politics that I wanted to bring your
00:20:04.500 attention to and get you to respond to this is Althea Raj writes for the Toronto Star, and is CBC
00:20:09.780 panelists there. And I think that the way that she describes the issue and where she stands on the
00:20:14.980 issue is sort of representative of the liberal mindset, which basically there's no role in public
00:20:21.220 life and in politics for people who are pro life. So I'm going to play this clip for you and get you
00:20:26.180 to react to it as well. Samuel, I take your point around that at some point you can't wait for the
00:20:31.620 boogeyman. But I think there would be women in the United States that might think as well. Well,
00:20:36.980 maybe this is settled. And then we let our guard down, as did Democrats. And now we're facing this issue
00:20:42.500 again. Okay, I want to come back to something that Shantaz said, she said that nothing happened under
00:20:48.260 Stephen Harper. And she's right that no, like no laws changed. But that did not mean that some
00:20:54.180 conservative MPs and not try to push forward the issue, which they continue to do after he left.
00:20:58.820 And I think that that is significant to mention whether it was Stephen Woodward's motion on when life
00:21:04.980 begins or the latest effort to ban sex selective abortions. The pro life movement in this country,
00:21:15.620 their goal is to elect as many conservative MPs who are anti abortion as they can. And if you have
00:21:22.180 a leader whose only pledge is I will not introduce a government bill that will restrict abortion, but
00:21:29.780 allows their backbench to introduce legislation and to have a free vote on this issue. There is
00:21:36.180 the real possibility that if you have a majority government with an overwhelming majority of
00:21:41.060 anti abortion MPs, that you could have changes to the abort to abortion rights in this country.
00:21:49.060 Well, so just one thing you notice that she does put scare quotes around abortion rights,
00:21:52.340 because she knows that there's no such thing as abortion rights. And I just want to put this out
00:21:55.380 there. I like Elthea. I think she's a very nice person. I know her personally, and I don't always
00:21:59.620 agree with her. I think she's a very nice person. But I really disagree with her on this issue,
00:22:04.020 because she doesn't think that there should be any studying on when life begins. She was opposed
00:22:09.620 to that. She doesn't think that there should be any vote on sex selective abortion. So she just
00:22:13.460 doesn't want any discussion, any conversation. She wants it to be entirely one sided. She doesn't
00:22:20.180 think that people who are pro life should be able to be MPs who vote on issues. She doesn't want free
00:22:25.220 votes. Like that the position that she's taking is incredibly extreme in a position that if you
00:22:31.940 don't agree with me, every single step of the way that everything about abortion needs to remain
00:22:37.060 perfectly legal, then you shouldn't even be here in the House of Commons or in Ottawa. But that's
00:22:41.940 that's the position I think that Justin Trudeau takes. I mean, he kicked any pro life people out of
00:22:48.180 his caucus. He said that if you oppose abortions, that you shouldn't even get funding for the Canada
00:22:54.260 of the jobs grant, for instance. I mean, the position on the left and the media seems to be
00:22:59.540 more and more militant and extreme. Why is that happening? And how do you react to these kind of
00:23:04.900 positions, Samuel? Yeah, it's remarkable that they have no shame in saying that they are okay with sex
00:23:11.220 selective abortion, where it targets women. And that's, and that's the again, what we mentioned before
00:23:16.740 about the, the full support for women from the left when it comes to this issue, where they say
00:23:23.940 they're all about women's rights, where women are being targeted in sex, a lot of sex selective
00:23:28.980 abortions. And yet they're saying that because they love their rights or their so-called rights for
00:23:34.180 abortion that they support it. But in terms of what she said beyond that too is, you know, in our nation,
00:23:39.540 we, we proudly boast about being this multicultural nation. Well, except for when it comes to abortion.
00:23:46.660 We do not, you know, we want multiculturalism, except for people who then would be, you know,
00:23:51.780 be pro-life or anti-abortion. So people like myself would be considered un-Canadian, supposedly,
00:23:57.300 if we support, you know, pro-life issues and we're against abortion. And that would include again,
00:24:03.540 the vast majority of immigrants in our country, where we are essentially shunning them from ever
00:24:08.900 speaking on their, their views on a pro, on the, on pro-life issues, which is, I think,
00:24:13.940 plays a big role in some of the polling, where a lot of people are hearing some of these statements
00:24:19.140 and they're recognizing that they're coming to a nation where their views on abortion is radically
00:24:24.340 opposed by the left. And of course, that will play an impact in the, in the politics where,
00:24:29.140 because of that, because of what they're hearing from the media and from the politicians, and then
00:24:33.860 because the conservatives are not saying anything about it, then they will make it an issue,
00:24:37.300 although they would want to make it an issue if they had the opportunity to do so.
00:24:42.020 So Samuel, I know you said that you disagreed with some of the things I said in my opening remarks.
00:24:47.220 You probably disagreed when I said that the pro-life movement has failed, but if you,
00:24:50.580 if you just look at the situation around us where we have the left of the media, you know,
00:24:56.740 basically again, just taking a militant position saying all abortions for everyone at all times,
00:25:02.020 and anyone who disagrees with me can't even be in politics. You have the conservatives who
00:25:06.740 are so timid to talk about the issue that they just won't. And many conservatives vote pro-choice
00:25:13.780 when it comes to private members bills, even though they're personally pro-life because they just don't
00:25:17.460 want to talk about it. So it's like, just make this issue go away. And there's no laws in this
00:25:21.860 country. There's an interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal that talked about Europe's abortion
00:25:26.260 laws. And I'll just quickly read one interesting part because, you know, there's so much consternation
00:25:31.060 in the U.S. about supposedly regressive states like Mississippi that they want to have a ban after
00:25:36.260 15 weeks. Well, this is, this is the state of things in Europe. And I'm quoting here,
00:25:40.900 abortion in Sweden is available on demand up to the 18th week. And after that, only with medical
00:25:46.660 permission, if the fetus isn't viable. In Italy, it's the first 90 days. Many countries such as Denmark,
00:25:52.420 Germany, and Belgium allow abortion on demand up to the 12th week only, while France recently
00:25:57.140 extended it to 14. In Portugal, it's 10. So, so, you know, by comparison, Mississippi looks pretty
00:26:04.260 liberal compared to some of these countries that you think of as being very progressive
00:26:07.380 and liberal, like Denmark, Germany, Portugal is 10 weeks. So, so, so it's hard not to look at Canada
00:26:14.180 as, as an extreme outlier when it comes to our laws. And when it comes to the level of debate,
00:26:19.780 how, how, how do you, as someone who worked in the pro-life movement in Canada,
00:26:25.460 how do you defend the, the, the, the position that the, that the pro-life movement has been
00:26:30.340 successful when, when you clearly look around and, and it looks like it's, it's pretty much
00:26:35.060 failed? How do you react to that? Yeah. One, I'm glad you mentioned the international
00:26:40.260 laws on abortion. I, you know, before we spoke, you and I were just having a conversation and I
00:26:44.980 mentioned that when it comes to the climate change issue, one of the things that the left
00:26:49.540 usually repeats on is that we should bring, we should bring the climate change, you know, issues
00:26:54.900 in Canada into an international standard. But then when it comes to abortion, we don't say the same
00:26:59.300 thing. You know, Canada is radically pro-abortion compared to the other nations, nations in terms of
00:27:05.540 our laws. Uh, I, I, I mentioned to you privately that it's only three nations, um, in this, in this
00:27:11.700 world that are, that have zero laws on abortion, North Korea, China, Canada. Well, China and North
00:27:18.420 Korea, of course, are oppressive and, uh, and, uh, led by, um, oppressive nations led by dictators.
00:27:24.660 While Canada, we are supposedly a free nation, but yet we are again, the only free nation with zero laws on
00:27:30.660 abortion. So what does that mean then for the pro-life movement? So I wouldn't say we've been
00:27:37.140 necessarily, um, you know, successful. I wouldn't say that, but yet I wouldn't say we failed either.
00:27:44.180 And that might seem contradictory. Uh, but what I mean by that is this, is that the pro-life movement
00:27:48.580 here is relatively young, uh, compared to the U S now, of course, have always been, uh, pro-life people
00:27:54.580 in Canada. In fact, uh, Sir John A. MacDonald said that abortion saps the very lifeblood of a nation,
00:28:01.540 right? And then you've had, you know, Christians and Catholics and, um, and, and other pro-life
00:28:07.140 groups in Canada for a very long time. Uh, we had anti-abortion laws in this country years before,
00:28:14.660 of course, um, you had, um, um, you had abortion becoming completely legal in Canada in, um, well,
00:28:21.700 initially in limited sense under, uh, Trudeau and, uh, I think it was 69 and then fully in 88,
00:28:28.740 uh, with Morgan Taylor. So, um, unfortunately, um, we've not had a lot of success in Canada,
00:28:35.220 but I wouldn't say we failed either. And what I mean by that is this, is that, um, we have not had
00:28:40.420 a major opportunity or support from politicians in order to be successful. Um, in the U S you've had
00:28:46.500 the pro-life movement working alongside the cons working alongside the Republican party to push
00:28:51.220 these laws. Um, you know, Mississippi, um, law against abortion would be impossible if not,
00:28:56.740 of course, of the influence from, from the pro-life movement, but also if not for brave
00:29:01.300 politicians who could then work on the influence of the, uh, pro-life movement in the U S here,
00:29:08.020 oftentimes the politicians, as you've mentioned earlier are too afraid and too cowardly to, um,
00:29:13.460 to support the pro-life movements positions on these issues because they fear the polling again,
00:29:18.660 polling, which we've already mentioned is not helpful, um, in, uh, revealing the real data
00:29:24.260 or the real truth. So we've made it known to them, these politicians that look, um, you know,
00:29:29.940 most Canadians still for one majority of Canadians support, um, a law on abortion. Um, but they're
00:29:37.300 too afraid to do so because they know that the media and that Trudeau is radically opposed to them. So,
00:29:42.740 and also, um, being involved in the pro-life movement, uh, from 2018 till, um, last year when
00:29:48.420 I ended up leaving, um, um, um, you know, to get married, uh, to my fiance in Canada, although I still
00:29:54.100 very much love my, my colleagues over there, um, doing work is that it's a very young movement. It
00:29:59.620 really is. Uh, there's a very young movement. It's very rare to find a significantly older crowd.
00:30:05.540 Um, not, there's nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's mostly made up of 20 to 30 something
00:30:10.260 year old people. So it's a relatively new movement and already it's growing and growing
00:30:15.780 in size and an influence in the conservative party and in other parties as well. So I think
00:30:20.500 it's too young to say we failed. Uh, but I think that of course we have not succeeded yet in our
00:30:25.220 plan to start, um, um, eliminating, um, abortion in our country and to protect pre-worn babies.
00:30:32.340 Well, it's interesting that, that panel on that clip that I showed you of Althea Raj,
00:30:35.780 uh, the person who spoke after or later, uh, Chantal Hubert, who's an older, uh, woman from
00:30:41.300 Quebec and, and she disagreed with Althea and said that of course there needs to be room for
00:30:46.500 people with different views in politics. That's what politics is all about. And I think that women,
00:30:51.300 uh, people of that generation in some ways have a more of an open mind on this issue and understand
00:30:57.140 that there are lots of people who have religious convictions and lots of people who have different
00:31:01.220 views on this incredibly sensitive issue and trying to stamp out a conversation, uh, and say,
00:31:06.740 we just, you know, like the left, uh, is tends to do is saying the science is settled. We're not
00:31:11.860 going to talk about this anymore. Agree with us or shut up. Um, that, that, that kind of language
00:31:17.380 doesn't appeal to most people. And, and I think that they, I, I personally think that, that Trudeau,
00:31:22.500 if he really, really wants to push this issue, uh, you know, he he's, he's, he's sort of playing a
00:31:27.700 dangerous game because I think that there are many, many, many Canadians, despite what the polls
00:31:32.020 say, who feel uncomfortable and would, would, you know, if pushed, uh, they would say, no,
00:31:37.220 we shouldn't have a law guaranteeing abortion at all times under any circumstances to every single
00:31:43.060 person right up until the moment of birth. I think that the overwhelming number of Canadians would
00:31:47.860 feel uncomfortable, um, and, and oppose that. Um, I'll, I'll give you the last word here, Samuel.
00:31:53.860 Yeah. Thank you for that. Um, I will, if, if, if it's okay, I would like to speak to conservatives
00:31:58.900 who are listening to this night. And I would say that the majority of, of conservatives,
00:32:03.860 if not almost every conservative would support a law on abortion to limit abortion in this country.
00:32:09.620 Because again, as I mentioned, um, you can, anyone can have an abortion in this country
00:32:13.780 throughout all stages of pregnancy. Um, but I would say that, um, you know, that there's actually much
00:32:19.300 more that needs to be done by just introducing a law. I think, um, you know, some would say I'm
00:32:24.660 extreme with this, but that I think abortion at, in every situation is unethical and is an injustice.
00:32:30.660 And I'll explain it by simply saying this, I think that most people would say that when it comes to,
00:32:35.860 of course, um, and kind of don't say when it comes to rape or incest that gives, um, that then abortion
00:32:41.700 should be okay. And I want to make it very known that, of course, I, I know people who've been
00:32:45.940 assaulted, I know people who've suffered greatly. Um, and I am completely against, of course, any woman
00:32:51.780 being hurt in that way. And I know it is extremely difficult. I can't imagine what it's like for
00:32:56.260 women to be assaulted in that way. And then to have, um, to be pregnant from that. But what I will say
00:33:02.500 is this, what it comes down with, what it comes down to is this, is that unfortunately, if someone
00:33:07.380 is assaulted, the abortion will not remove the assault. It will not do that. Instead, it will lead to
00:33:14.260 another assault. It will not remove one assault. It will create two assaults. And then it will only
00:33:19.220 make things worse. What women need when they get, um, assaulted and then they get pregnant,
00:33:23.700 they need support, they need financial help, they need counseling, they need love. They don't need
00:33:28.500 an abortion. An abortion will not help the situation. It would only lead to death. And then we're punishing
00:33:33.860 the baby who is innocent, you know, because if we agree that life starts at fertilization, which is
00:33:38.820 what the signs say, then there's never any justification to kill the life. We simply need
00:33:43.780 to protect both the mom and the baby.
00:33:48.020 Well, it is true that, that the, the left likes to talk about protecting the most vulnerable. And when
00:33:53.620 you think of the, you know, the, the truly the most vulnerable, uh, there's no one more vulnerable than
00:33:58.260 an innocent, uh, child that just wants to live and be loved. And, and, uh, I think you definitely
00:34:04.100 raise some good points. Well, I, I, I still think that the pro-life movement has ways to go in terms
00:34:08.980 of articulating their views and trying to convince Canadians and that we're better off having a nuanced
00:34:13.140 discussion as opposed to the bumper stickers, like I mentioned at the top. So I really appreciate
00:34:18.260 your time, Samuel. And I hope that, uh, we can continue this conversation another time.
00:34:22.020 Indeed. Thank you so much.
00:34:23.540 All right. That's Samuel say I'm Candace Malcolm, and this is the Candace Malcolm show.
00:34:34.100 I'm Candace Malcolm, and this is the Candace Malcolm, and this is the Candace Malcolm show.