Juno News - The pro-life movement in Canada has failed (Ft. Sam Sey)

00:00:00.000 The current discourse around Roe v. Wade that is spilling into Canada

00:00:03.900 proves that the country is not capable of having a moral discussion on abortion. It shows in some

00:00:10.280 ways that the pro-life movement in this country has failed. I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The

00:00:14.580 Candice Malcolm show. Hi everyone thank you so much for tuning into this show. So in Canada

00:00:32.320 abortion is no longer an issue about conscience. It's no longer an issue or discussion that we can

00:00:38.000 even have. Conservatives it seems are too afraid to push back because they're just terrified of the

00:00:43.980 issue. They don't want anything to do with it. That's the case for most of the people who are

00:00:48.160 running for leader and pro-life groups just simply aren't taken seriously. Meanwhile the media and

00:00:55.460 the left is pushing a discussion and a narrative that this is not a conversation that we want to

00:01:00.240 have. This is not a conversation that we can have. If we're going to talk about it we're going to only

00:01:04.580 talk about how to make more abortions happen. Not whether or not abortions are permissible, you know 0.89

00:01:12.320 what the limits should be, how we could regulate it. And I think that it just shows again that the

00:01:17.580 pro-life movement haven't been effective in this country. It's such a different conversation

00:01:21.680 in the U.S. than it is in Canada. People often ask me what my position is, what my stance is on this

00:01:28.320 issue. I think it's interesting because in conservative circles in Canada almost everyone

00:01:32.180 that you talk to is opposed to abortion in some way shape or form but also they're very reluctant

00:01:38.160 to have the conversation. Many people just don't feel comfortable talking about it. They don't want

00:01:42.040 it to dominate the political cycle because they feel like conservatives lose whenever the topic

00:01:48.020 gets discussed. I think it's one of those issues that is simplified to an absurd extent. The media does

00:01:54.860 a complete disservice. In this case it gets boiled down to basically bumper sticker slogans that represent

00:02:02.700 two extremes. So on the one side, if you're pro-life, it generally means that you are against abortions

00:02:08.660 under any circumstances, no abortions ever, no matter what. And then the other side, pro-choice sort of

00:02:13.740 boils down to women have the right to abort their baby right up until the moment that they are born. I think 1.00

00:02:20.060 that those are two extremes and that most Canadians, overwhelming majority of Canadians, fall somewhere in

00:02:25.660 the middle. There's many, many shades of gray. There are many nuances, many important conversations to be had

00:02:32.340 again. Personally, for me, I am morally very opposed to abortion. I think that every life deserves 0.56

00:02:39.240 protecting. Every life has sanctity and that abortion is just a horrible, horrible tragedy.

00:02:44.860 I want to start with Jordan Peterson and say that by the time we're talking about abortion and whether

00:02:49.460 you're pro-life or pro-choice, there's already been a series of so many horrible mistakes that it's hard

00:02:54.160 to reconcile. And I think that that's right, that people should have sort of understanding and

00:02:59.760 compassion. I think that for a conservative and someone who's more on the free market side of

00:03:04.220 things, I also don't want to live in a world where a very vulnerable young woman has to make a very

00:03:09.540 difficult decision where she could be potentially forced into a black market. So I think that there 0.75

00:03:14.240 is some nuance and it's definitely not a black and white issue. I think it's an issue that we should

00:03:18.820 talk about and it requires discussion, debate, facts, critical thinking, and less sloganeering.

00:03:23.880 Unfortunately, that's not what we get from our political class. It's certainly not what we get

00:03:27.500 from the media. And so to join me today to have a fuller conversation, I'm very pleased to be

00:03:32.800 welcomed by Samuel Say. Samuel is a fellow and a contributor here at True North. He's the author

00:03:38.680 of a website called Slow to Write, where he covers topics such as race, culture, and politics from a

00:03:44.240 Christian perspective. He's been published on many publications, including over at the Daily Wire

00:03:49.020 and the Blaze. Samuel, it's such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for joining us today.

00:03:52.280 Thank you for having me. I'm very grateful. You know, I think, you know, I'm glad that you'd be

00:03:59.520 willing to talk to me because, as you said earlier, a lot of people in Canada, in the media do not talk

00:04:05.020 about abortion. You know, so, you know, as I'm listening to your intro, I actually disagree with

00:04:09.660 you on certain things. And I think you know that. So I'm grateful that you'd want me to come on

00:04:14.060 because obviously I would say that abortion is a black and white issue. But yeah, of course, you know,

00:04:18.940 it's good to talk about these things so that, you know, the viewers can also listen in and be more

00:04:23.160 informed on your thoughts and my thoughts as well. Yeah, well, that is why I wanted to have you on.

00:04:28.980 And I think that, again, on this issue, the more that we have the discussion and debate, the better

00:04:33.360 because maybe you'll hear something from me that you hadn't thought about or that will change your

00:04:37.780 opinion a little bit. And maybe I'll hear something from you that I find very convincing. I think that

00:04:41.700 it's definitely one of those issues for me that my thinking has changed over the years. And I think that

00:04:48.340 the way that it's framed, again, in the media, you know, in some ways, it's like, if you're pro-choice,

00:04:54.520 like I'm for choice in general, right? Like, I think that people should be able to choose where they go to

00:04:59.460 school, what kind of doctor they have, I think that we should have more choice in the economy, more, I would

00:05:03.260 love Canada, just have more choice in things. And so, you know, that that word choice is very positive. I

00:05:08.460 think a lot of people resonate with that. And the other side, obviously, everyone's pro-life, because

00:05:12.660 everyone believes in, in protecting life and the dignity of life. And, you know, otherwise,

00:05:17.460 who wouldn't be here? So it's to me, it's back. Maybe maybe you can explain your thinking on the

00:05:22.240 issue. Yeah, I actually disagree that I think everyone is pro-life. I mean, you, you're seeing

00:05:28.260 in the reactions in Canada and in the US of people who are very proud about being able to kill the

00:05:33.980 preborn baby, people who are shouting their abortion, people who are demanding that they should 0.94

00:05:39.060 even increase, increase the laws in America so that they can kill more babies. You know, 0.94

00:05:45.620 so that, I mean, you know, you mentioned choice earlier, of course, I also believe in choice. I

00:05:50.260 want people to have a choice to do anything. You know, I am a off the free market. Some would,

00:05:55.940 you know, I would call myself a libertarian in many ways. And yet, I would say that the choice about

00:06:01.060 abortion is that, you know, they're not, they're choosing to harm another person, they're choosing to

00:06:06.020 harm a defenseless, innocent, innocent baby. I think that's where oftentimes people, you know,

00:06:13.380 when they talk about abortion or the choice issue, we forget that it's not just a choice you're doing

00:06:18.980 with your body, there's a choice where you're harming somebody else also in their body. Because

00:06:23.940 of course, abortion does not harm a woman's body primarily. Abortion is harming a different body, 0.91

00:06:29.060 a living, breathing, well, living, growing human being.

00:06:34.100 Well, when I said pro-life, I meant that most people are opposed to murder. And most people

00:06:39.540 believe that that life is worth protecting, you know, that there's more worth in life. But it's

00:06:44.820 just that they draw a line as to where where life begins. And it's interesting to see any pushback

00:06:50.980 against the topic of when life begins, because I think there's been a lot of advances in science,

00:06:56.980 medicine, you know, ultrasounds. Yeah, for me personally, I was able to hear my son's heartbeat

00:07:04.180 in the room at six weeks, which I didn't even know that that was possible. And to me, it was such a

00:07:09.540 beautiful sound. And from that point, right, it's like, that's a baby in there. And the doctor refers

00:07:16.500 to it as a baby. So it's kind of like, to me, a little ghoulish when I hear political activists

00:07:22.820 tell me that it's not a baby, it's a fetus. It's like, but but it's a baby, like, ask my doctor.

00:07:28.180 And, you know, I can see in the ultrasound that the baby's developing. And I can see,

00:07:32.980 I can see with my own eyes, what's happening in there. And so I always find it, you know,

00:07:37.140 as a mother, very ghoulish, when I hear people talk about how they want to protect abortion up to,

00:07:42.820 say, like, 20 weeks, or 25 weeks, it's like, even as someone who's carried children, it's like,

00:07:47.620 that's, that's, that's a baby. And even earlier than that. So I think, I think you're right about

00:07:53.140 that. Yeah. And, you know, the funny thing about, you know, when they refer to babies as just a fetus,

00:07:59.380 well, a fetus literally means, you know, means baby. That's really literally what it means in Latin.

00:08:07.460 So it's like, so what they're really saying is, it's not a baby, but it's a baby. It makes no sense.

00:08:12.900 And also, when you mentioned that you were able to hear your child's heartbeat at six weeks,

00:08:18.100 that's really beautiful. I always smile when I hear that. Well, I mean, actually, like babies,

00:08:23.620 a preborn baby's heartbeat can be, can be detected at three weeks. So it is, you know, so, you know,

00:08:30.500 and, and of course, scientifically, in terms of when life begins, scientifically, it is the fact is that

00:08:36.020 life begins at fertilization. When, of course, you know, you know, not to get too detailed here,

00:08:43.780 but of course you have the semen and the egg reproducing where that's where you can't, of

00:08:49.220 course, no one can trace my DNA through my father's, not to get weird here, my father's seed, you know,

00:08:54.580 seed or my mother's egg, but they could, they could trace my DNA from when I was a, when I was

00:09:03.700 reproduced, you know, as a zygote to the very first stage of human life. And that is what every

00:09:09.860 science textbook, everyone knows this. So that's where human humanity starts. That's where we become

00:09:17.140 a life. That's where we become human. So from that point on, we are growing as human beings. And of

00:09:23.940 course, if something is growing, they are alive. And so I've been alive, you've been alive since we were

00:09:30.180 reproduced. It's really interesting, because that's just so far from where the discussion is

00:09:35.860 in Canada, I noticed, obviously, with the with the Roe v. Wade decision and the leak, I think in

00:09:40.660 legal circles in the US, everyone admits and everyone knows that the Roe decision is a really

00:09:45.220 badly argument, argued decision, and it doesn't really hold a lot of ground. And yet, you know,

00:09:50.420 there's a lot of consternation and outrage over the fact that that the Supreme Court decision is going

00:09:55.380 to get overturned. And obviously, that's why they there's been such heated debates over Supreme Court

00:09:59.700 nominations in the US over the last several years. But it seems to me that you would probably want

00:10:04.500 elected officials at a local level making this decision in a country like the United States,

00:10:09.140 it's so broad, diverse and different values in a place like California, versus a place like Texas or

00:10:16.020 Alabama. So it seems like a lot of sort of political hay over something that, you know, having local

00:10:23.460 people make this decision, and not an appointed judge seems better. What's your take on Roe and

00:10:30.740 the leak? And then maybe you can comment about why you think this issue is spilling into the

00:10:34.740 conversation here in Canada? Man, yeah, there's so much to say about that. So one is, you know,

00:10:41.220 the so called pro choice movement talks about being pro choice, but clearly, they're not really pro choice.

00:10:46.820 I would say even in the very issue of killing, killing a baby killing a preborn baby, 0.92

00:10:52.260 but beyond that, politically, they're not pro choice, because if they were really pro choice,

00:10:55.860 and they would want people to be able to vote on the issue, they would want California to make their

00:11:01.140 choice on the issue. And they would want Texas or Ohio, Mississippi, Alabama, to make their choice on

00:11:07.220 the issue. But that's not what they want. In the same way, they don't really want a woman to have a real

00:11:12.260 choice. People just want the rights to kill a baby. And it's sad. That's often because sometimes 0.99

00:11:18.660 they don't they believe they don't have any alternative, which of course, is not true.

00:11:23.380 That's a real choice, right? There is a choice where people can choose to protect their babies,

00:11:29.620 either by going for adoption, or by believing that they can persevere that they are strong enough to

00:11:35.140 take care of their own babies. As my mother did when my father left my family before, before,

00:11:41.300 before I was born, when my mom was pregnant with me in Ghana. And look, being a single mother is hard

00:11:47.140 anywhere. But being a single mother in West Africa, especially the time in the late 80s is very, very

00:11:53.140 difficult. So anyway, so I think this goes to show that, you know, people, a lot of people in the US

00:11:59.860 just do not want states to have the choice women, men to be able to have a choice to vote on this issue.

00:12:06.260 And I think the reason why it's also spilling into Canada is because of course, our nations are very

00:12:11.940 connected in so many ways. And oftentimes, the political issues in the US are or become political

00:12:18.420 issues also in Canada, as we've seen already that politicians have had to answer on what they think

00:12:24.020 about Roe v. Wade already, especially the conservative leadership race. And also because

00:12:31.620 abortion is an issue here, too. There are people here who, like me, do not like abortion, because we

00:12:39.380 don't like, again, innocent children, innocent, you know, children to be killed, or any children to be

00:12:44.740 killed. But also, it's because we don't have a law here in Canada, we don't have a single law protecting

00:12:51.860 preborn babies in this country. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's spilling into our country. 1.00

00:12:57.460 Well, it is, it is sort of interesting. And I noticed that in the US, well, just just to comment

00:13:03.460 on the whole choice thing. That's clearly a euphemism that the left doesn't stand by, right?

00:13:08.500 They, they say, you know, my body, my choice, and they scream out the windows. And then I mean,

00:13:12.820 this is something that's pointed out every minute on Twitter. But it's like, that standard doesn't

00:13:16.740 apply when it comes to vaccines, that standard doesn't apply, even when it comes to many other

00:13:21.140 things. So it's not a consistent standard is a euphemism, that that women are told that they have

00:13:26.660 complete autonomy over their body. And if they want to have the same sort of economic rights as men,

00:13:31.140 and that means that they have to have the right to not be pregnant, which which is, is again,

00:13:36.100 a euphemism to cover up even in the term abortion is a euphemism to cover up the sort of heinous thing 0.51

00:13:42.580 that happens when when that procedure is carried out. But I want to ask you about in Canada, like why

00:13:50.660 there isn't more of a political appetite around this issue? Why you think conservative politicians sort of

00:13:56.100 shy away from? I want to show you a clip because Andrew Coyne over at the CBC made this made this

00:14:01.700 point about how the abortion debate just makes conservatives feel uncomfortable. And he thinks

00:14:06.580 that's because they know that they're wrong, and they know that they're offside. So I want to play

00:14:10.740 this clip because I think it represents how many sort of elites and liberals think about this issue.

00:14:15.380 And then I'll get you to respond.

00:14:17.620 As Althea said, it's not only predictable, we've seen this movie over and over again.

00:14:22.580 It's true that the liberals, in some senses, like to bring the airship up over and over again,

00:14:27.620 so as to make the conservatives uncomfortable. But the fact that the conservatives are uncomfortable

00:14:32.180 kind of settles the issue for me. You know, what party is this that's going to propose legislation

00:14:37.860 to restrict abortion? The reason the conservatives are so uncomfortable is they can read the polls the

00:14:42.740 same as anybody else, and it would be politically suicidal for them to do so.

00:14:46.180 So the liberals, it is a double-edged sword for them at the same time because, as Mr. Jagmeet Singh

00:14:52.420 was pointing out, they've been in power for seven years now. There are still the same issues

00:14:57.380 surrounding access to abortion that there were when they came into power. Mr. Trudeau has been

00:15:02.660 talking about, maybe we'll bring in legislation that will make it impossible for any future government

00:15:07.220 to restrict abortion. I'm not sure what he means short of a constitutional amendment. But if there were

00:15:13.220 any possibility of the liberals finally and fully settling this issue, I don't think they'd take

00:15:19.700 it because it would take away from them the ability to bring it up again and again to beat

00:15:23.540 the Tories over the head with. So everyone's playing to the same political incentives that they always

00:15:28.500 have. So Sam, I'm wondering if you can give us your thoughts on what Andrew Coyne said there.

00:15:34.340 Yeah. So, you know, how do I explain this? Mr. Coyne is right to call out the conservative

00:15:48.340 party's thinking on this, and that it's absolutely impacted by the polls. But the polls are also not

00:15:56.180 really accurate in the sense that, so the polling does show that Canada is more radically pro-abortion

00:16:04.900 than America is. However, when it depends on what questions are asked, if when many Canadians are

00:16:13.460 asked, do you support abortion? Overwhelmingly, unfortunately, they say yes. But when they're asked

00:16:19.300 about, when they're told about the abortion laws in the country, which most Canadians are not aware of,

00:16:24.180 the abortion laws in the country, when they are told about the abortion laws in the country,

00:16:28.100 and then they're asked, for example, they're told that, look, abortion is completely legal at all

00:16:32.980 stages of pregnancy. Do you want a law that limits abortion? Overwhelmingly, the polls have said that,

00:16:39.620 I think it's about 90% of Canadians say that they want a law on abortion. So the polls are misleading.

00:16:46.900 And when, again, they know about what's really happening in Canada with abortion,

00:16:51.140 and they know the numbers, which is 100,000 babies, relatively over the last 15, 20 years,

00:16:58.180 they are appalled by it. And many of them, many Canadians want limits on abortion at the very

00:17:02.980 least. So unfortunately, that's not being said a lot in the media. So then the conservative

00:17:09.300 politicians then, frankly, choose to be cowardly about it. Because I think that if they were to push

00:17:13.780 that, if they were to make it known, as the Republicans have made it known about what's

00:17:18.180 happening in abortion in their country, if the conservative party were to make it known and to

00:17:22.100 run on that issue, I think it would be a very, for many candidates, it'd be a winning issue.

00:17:27.700 And frankly, also as an immigrant, and as a Black Canadian, a lot of immigrants really dislike abortion.

00:17:36.420 Many immigrants coming from Southeast Asia, from Africa, from the Caribbean, are opposed to abortion.

00:17:44.020 But again, oftentimes, people are unaware of the issue. So it's on the pro-life movement to continue

00:17:49.620 to bring public awareness. It's also on the on the political candidates, who if they really care about

00:17:55.380 abortion, to make it known as to what the laws are in this country, and what they can do to protect

00:18:02.900 the preborn babies in our country. I think you're totally right about many,

00:18:06.820 many new Canadians. I know a family friend that's from the Philippines, and basically,

00:18:12.100 his mother would just call anytime there's an election, she would just call all the political 0.86

00:18:16.180 offices and ask what their stance was on abortion. And that's who she would vote for no matter what. 1.00

00:18:20.740 And if none of the candidates were opposed to abortion, she just wouldn't vote. And that was

00:18:23.940 that was like, literally the only issue. And I've known from just talking to people and going to

00:18:28.820 conventions and talking to Canadians, new Canadians that many, many of them feel very, very strongly

00:18:34.980 on this issue. I, I do want to sort of agree with that point that you made about the way that the

00:18:40.180 polls are worded, because I'll just give you an example. I pulled up this Leger poll that said that

00:18:45.700 four and five respondents said that they were in favor of a woman's right to abortion if she chooses,

00:18:51.300 and only 14% are opposed. I would say that the wording of that is so vague, right? Because it's like,

00:18:58.020 you know, a woman's right to an abortion. Well, first of all, women don't have the right to an 1.00

00:19:02.980 abortion. As you said, there's no law in this country. It's not a constitutionally protected

00:19:06.260 right. So the fact that they would use that word a woman's right, makes you think that she that 0.94

00:19:11.300 there is this right in Canada, which there's not. But then also, you know, I think most people think,

00:19:17.460 you know, a right to an abortion, maybe in the very early stages of the pregnancy,

00:19:22.580 before the baby's developed, or, you know, with very little knowledge about the start of life and,

00:19:28.260 and, and the development, like, it's just an abstract question, right? It's not a specific

00:19:32.740 question. Like, if I think if you boil down and said, are you comfortable with a second trimester

00:19:38.180 abortion, I think more Canadians would say no. Are you comfortable with a sex selective abortion when

00:19:44.260 people say, I don't want to have a daughter, and so I'm going to abort the daughter,

00:19:47.460 and hope that next time I have a son. Those kind of things are just sort of unconscionable to

00:19:53.700 most Canadians, I would I would assume, but the way that these polls are worded, don't don't leave

00:19:59.140 that there's another clip from the same panel on power and politics that I wanted to bring your

00:20:04.500 attention to and get you to respond to this is Althea Raj writes for the Toronto Star, and is CBC

00:20:09.780 panelists there. And I think that the way that she describes the issue and where she stands on the

00:20:14.980 issue is sort of representative of the liberal mindset, which basically there's no role in public

00:20:21.220 life and in politics for people who are pro life. So I'm going to play this clip for you and get you

00:20:26.180 to react to it as well. Samuel, I take your point around that at some point you can't wait for the

00:20:31.620 boogeyman. But I think there would be women in the United States that might think as well. Well, 0.97

00:20:36.980 maybe this is settled. And then we let our guard down, as did Democrats. And now we're facing this issue

00:20:42.500 again. Okay, I want to come back to something that Shantaz said, she said that nothing happened under

00:20:48.260 Stephen Harper. And she's right that no, like no laws changed. But that did not mean that some

00:20:54.180 conservative MPs and not try to push forward the issue, which they continue to do after he left.

00:20:58.820 And I think that that is significant to mention whether it was Stephen Woodward's motion on when life

00:21:04.980 begins or the latest effort to ban sex selective abortions. The pro life movement in this country,

00:21:15.620 their goal is to elect as many conservative MPs who are anti abortion as they can. And if you have

00:21:22.180 a leader whose only pledge is I will not introduce a government bill that will restrict abortion, but

00:21:29.780 allows their backbench to introduce legislation and to have a free vote on this issue. There is

00:21:36.180 the real possibility that if you have a majority government with an overwhelming majority of

00:21:41.060 anti abortion MPs, that you could have changes to the abort to abortion rights in this country.

00:21:49.060 Well, so just one thing you notice that she does put scare quotes around abortion rights, 0.81

00:21:52.340 because she knows that there's no such thing as abortion rights. And I just want to put this out

00:21:55.380 there. I like Elthea. I think she's a very nice person. I know her personally, and I don't always

00:21:59.620 agree with her. I think she's a very nice person. But I really disagree with her on this issue,

00:22:04.020 because she doesn't think that there should be any studying on when life begins. She was opposed

00:22:09.620 to that. She doesn't think that there should be any vote on sex selective abortion. So she just

00:22:13.460 doesn't want any discussion, any conversation. She wants it to be entirely one sided. She doesn't

00:22:20.180 think that people who are pro life should be able to be MPs who vote on issues. She doesn't want free

00:22:25.220 votes. Like that the position that she's taking is incredibly extreme in a position that if you 0.93

00:22:31.940 don't agree with me, every single step of the way that everything about abortion needs to remain

00:22:37.060 perfectly legal, then you shouldn't even be here in the House of Commons or in Ottawa. But that's

00:22:41.940 that's the position I think that Justin Trudeau takes. I mean, he kicked any pro life people out of

00:22:48.180 his caucus. He said that if you oppose abortions, that you shouldn't even get funding for the Canada

00:22:54.260 of the jobs grant, for instance. I mean, the position on the left and the media seems to be

00:22:59.540 more and more militant and extreme. Why is that happening? And how do you react to these kind of

00:23:04.900 positions, Samuel? Yeah, it's remarkable that they have no shame in saying that they are okay with sex

00:23:11.220 selective abortion, where it targets women. And that's, and that's the again, what we mentioned before

00:23:16.740 about the, the full support for women from the left when it comes to this issue, where they say

00:23:23.940 they're all about women's rights, where women are being targeted in sex, a lot of sex selective 0.97

00:23:28.980 abortions. And yet they're saying that because they love their rights or their so-called rights for

00:23:34.180 abortion that they support it. But in terms of what she said beyond that too is, you know, in our nation,

00:23:39.540 we, we proudly boast about being this multicultural nation. Well, except for when it comes to abortion. 0.84

00:23:46.660 We do not, you know, we want multiculturalism, except for people who then would be, you know, 1.00

00:23:51.780 be pro-life or anti-abortion. So people like myself would be considered un-Canadian, supposedly,

00:23:57.300 if we support, you know, pro-life issues and we're against abortion. And that would include again,

00:24:03.540 the vast majority of immigrants in our country, where we are essentially shunning them from ever 1.00

00:24:08.900 speaking on their, their views on a pro, on the, on pro-life issues, which is, I think,

00:24:13.940 plays a big role in some of the polling, where a lot of people are hearing some of these statements

00:24:19.140 and they're recognizing that they're coming to a nation where their views on abortion is radically

00:24:24.340 opposed by the left. And of course, that will play an impact in the, in the politics where,

00:24:29.140 because of that, because of what they're hearing from the media and from the politicians, and then

00:24:33.860 because the conservatives are not saying anything about it, then they will make it an issue,

00:24:37.300 although they would want to make it an issue if they had the opportunity to do so.

00:24:42.020 So Samuel, I know you said that you disagreed with some of the things I said in my opening remarks.

00:24:47.220 You probably disagreed when I said that the pro-life movement has failed, but if you,

00:24:50.580 if you just look at the situation around us where we have the left of the media, you know,

00:24:56.740 basically again, just taking a militant position saying all abortions for everyone at all times,

00:25:02.020 and anyone who disagrees with me can't even be in politics. You have the conservatives who

00:25:06.740 are so timid to talk about the issue that they just won't. And many conservatives vote pro-choice

00:25:13.780 when it comes to private members bills, even though they're personally pro-life because they just don't

00:25:17.460 want to talk about it. So it's like, just make this issue go away. And there's no laws in this

00:25:21.860 country. There's an interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal that talked about Europe's abortion

00:25:26.260 laws. And I'll just quickly read one interesting part because, you know, there's so much consternation

00:25:31.060 in the U.S. about supposedly regressive states like Mississippi that they want to have a ban after

00:25:36.260 15 weeks. Well, this is, this is the state of things in Europe. And I'm quoting here,

00:25:40.900 abortion in Sweden is available on demand up to the 18th week. And after that, only with medical

00:25:46.660 permission, if the fetus isn't viable. In Italy, it's the first 90 days. Many countries such as Denmark,

00:25:52.420 Germany, and Belgium allow abortion on demand up to the 12th week only, while France recently

00:25:57.140 extended it to 14. In Portugal, it's 10. So, so, you know, by comparison, Mississippi looks pretty

00:26:04.260 liberal compared to some of these countries that you think of as being very progressive

00:26:07.380 and liberal, like Denmark, Germany, Portugal is 10 weeks. So, so, so it's hard not to look at Canada

00:26:14.180 as, as an extreme outlier when it comes to our laws. And when it comes to the level of debate,

00:26:19.780 how, how, how do you, as someone who worked in the pro-life movement in Canada,

00:26:25.460 how do you defend the, the, the, the position that the, that the pro-life movement has been

00:26:30.340 successful when, when you clearly look around and, and it looks like it's, it's pretty much

00:26:35.060 failed? How do you react to that? Yeah. One, I'm glad you mentioned the international

00:26:40.260 laws on abortion. I, you know, before we spoke, you and I were just having a conversation and I

00:26:44.980 mentioned that when it comes to the climate change issue, one of the things that the left

00:26:49.540 usually repeats on is that we should bring, we should bring the climate change, you know, issues

00:26:54.900 in Canada into an international standard. But then when it comes to abortion, we don't say the same

00:26:59.300 thing. You know, Canada is radically pro-abortion compared to the other nations, nations in terms of

00:27:05.540 our laws. Uh, I, I, I mentioned to you privately that it's only three nations, um, in this, in this

00:27:11.700 world that are, that have zero laws on abortion, North Korea, China, Canada. Well, China and North 0.82

00:27:18.420 Korea, of course, are oppressive and, uh, and, uh, led by, um, oppressive nations led by dictators.

00:27:24.660 While Canada, we are supposedly a free nation, but yet we are again, the only free nation with zero laws on

00:27:30.660 abortion. So what does that mean then for the pro-life movement? So I wouldn't say we've been

00:27:37.140 necessarily, um, you know, successful. I wouldn't say that, but yet I wouldn't say we failed either.

00:27:44.180 And that might seem contradictory. Uh, but what I mean by that is this, is that the pro-life movement

00:27:48.580 here is relatively young, uh, compared to the U S now, of course, have always been, uh, pro-life people

00:27:54.580 in Canada. In fact, uh, Sir John A. MacDonald said that abortion saps the very lifeblood of a nation,

00:28:01.540 right? And then you've had, you know, Christians and Catholics and, um, and, and other pro-life

00:28:07.140 groups in Canada for a very long time. Uh, we had anti-abortion laws in this country years before,

00:28:14.660 of course, um, you had, um, um, you had abortion becoming completely legal in Canada in, um, well,

00:28:21.700 initially in limited sense under, uh, Trudeau and, uh, I think it was 69 and then fully in 88,

00:28:28.740 uh, with Morgan Taylor. So, um, unfortunately, um, we've not had a lot of success in Canada,

00:28:35.220 but I wouldn't say we failed either. And what I mean by that is this, is that, um, we have not had

00:28:40.420 a major opportunity or support from politicians in order to be successful. Um, in the U S you've had

00:28:46.500 the pro-life movement working alongside the cons working alongside the Republican party to push

00:28:51.220 these laws. Um, you know, Mississippi, um, law against abortion would be impossible if not, 1.00

00:28:56.740 of course, of the influence from, from the pro-life movement, but also if not for brave

00:29:01.300 politicians who could then work on the influence of the, uh, pro-life movement in the U S here,

00:29:08.020 oftentimes the politicians, as you've mentioned earlier are too afraid and too cowardly to, um,

00:29:13.460 to support the pro-life movements positions on these issues because they fear the polling again,

00:29:18.660 polling, which we've already mentioned is not helpful, um, in, uh, revealing the real data

00:29:24.260 or the real truth. So we've made it known to them, these politicians that look, um, you know,

00:29:29.940 most Canadians still for one majority of Canadians support, um, a law on abortion. Um, but they're

00:29:37.300 too afraid to do so because they know that the media and that Trudeau is radically opposed to them. So,

00:29:42.740 and also, um, being involved in the pro-life movement, uh, from 2018 till, um, last year when

00:29:48.420 I ended up leaving, um, um, um, you know, to get married, uh, to my fiance in Canada, although I still

00:29:54.100 very much love my, my colleagues over there, um, doing work is that it's a very young movement. It

00:29:59.620 really is. Uh, there's a very young movement. It's very rare to find a significantly older crowd.

00:30:05.540 Um, not, there's nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's mostly made up of 20 to 30 something 0.91

00:30:10.260 year old people. So it's a relatively new movement and already it's growing and growing

00:30:15.780 in size and an influence in the conservative party and in other parties as well. So I think

00:30:20.500 it's too young to say we failed. Uh, but I think that of course we have not succeeded yet in our

00:30:25.220 plan to start, um, um, eliminating, um, abortion in our country and to protect pre-worn babies. 0.92

00:30:32.340 Well, it's interesting that, that panel on that clip that I showed you of Althea Raj,

00:30:35.780 uh, the person who spoke after or later, uh, Chantal Hubert, who's an older, uh, woman from

00:30:41.300 Quebec and, and she disagreed with Althea and said that of course there needs to be room for

00:30:46.500 people with different views in politics. That's what politics is all about. And I think that women, 1.00

00:30:51.300 uh, people of that generation in some ways have a more of an open mind on this issue and understand

00:30:57.140 that there are lots of people who have religious convictions and lots of people who have different

00:31:01.220 views on this incredibly sensitive issue and trying to stamp out a conversation, uh, and say,

00:31:06.740 we just, you know, like the left, uh, is tends to do is saying the science is settled. We're not

00:31:11.860 going to talk about this anymore. Agree with us or shut up. Um, that, that, that kind of language 0.99

00:31:17.380 doesn't appeal to most people. And, and I think that they, I, I personally think that, that Trudeau,

00:31:22.500 if he really, really wants to push this issue, uh, you know, he he's, he's, he's sort of playing a

00:31:27.700 dangerous game because I think that there are many, many, many Canadians, despite what the polls 1.00

00:31:32.020 say, who feel uncomfortable and would, would, you know, if pushed, uh, they would say, no,

00:31:37.220 we shouldn't have a law guaranteeing abortion at all times under any circumstances to every single

00:31:43.060 person right up until the moment of birth. I think that the overwhelming number of Canadians would

00:31:47.860 feel uncomfortable, um, and, and oppose that. Um, I'll, I'll give you the last word here, Samuel.

00:31:53.860 Yeah. Thank you for that. Um, I will, if, if, if it's okay, I would like to speak to conservatives

00:31:58.900 who are listening to this night. And I would say that the majority of, of conservatives,

00:32:03.860 if not almost every conservative would support a law on abortion to limit abortion in this country.

00:32:09.620 Because again, as I mentioned, um, you can, anyone can have an abortion in this country 0.98

00:32:13.780 throughout all stages of pregnancy. Um, but I would say that, um, you know, that there's actually much

00:32:19.300 more that needs to be done by just introducing a law. I think, um, you know, some would say I'm

00:32:24.660 extreme with this, but that I think abortion at, in every situation is unethical and is an injustice.

00:32:30.660 And I'll explain it by simply saying this, I think that most people would say that when it comes to,

00:32:35.860 of course, um, and kind of don't say when it comes to rape or incest that gives, um, that then abortion 0.84

00:32:41.700 should be okay. And I want to make it very known that, of course, I, I know people who've been

00:32:45.940 assaulted, I know people who've suffered greatly. Um, and I am completely against, of course, any woman 1.00

00:32:51.780 being hurt in that way. And I know it is extremely difficult. I can't imagine what it's like for

00:32:56.260 women to be assaulted in that way. And then to have, um, to be pregnant from that. But what I will say 0.89

00:33:02.500 is this, what it comes down with, what it comes down to is this, is that unfortunately, if someone

00:33:07.380 is assaulted, the abortion will not remove the assault. It will not do that. Instead, it will lead to

00:33:14.260 another assault. It will not remove one assault. It will create two assaults. And then it will only

00:33:19.220 make things worse. What women need when they get, um, assaulted and then they get pregnant, 1.00

00:33:23.700 they need support, they need financial help, they need counseling, they need love. They don't need

00:33:28.500 an abortion. An abortion will not help the situation. It would only lead to death. And then we're punishing

00:33:33.860 the baby who is innocent, you know, because if we agree that life starts at fertilization, which is

00:33:38.820 what the signs say, then there's never any justification to kill the life. We simply need

00:33:43.780 to protect both the mom and the baby.

00:33:48.020 Well, it is true that, that the, the left likes to talk about protecting the most vulnerable. And when

00:33:53.620 you think of the, you know, the, the truly the most vulnerable, uh, there's no one more vulnerable than

00:33:58.260 an innocent, uh, child that just wants to live and be loved. And, and, uh, I think you definitely

00:34:04.100 raise some good points. Well, I, I, I still think that the pro-life movement has ways to go in terms

00:34:08.980 of articulating their views and trying to convince Canadians and that we're better off having a nuanced

00:34:13.140 discussion as opposed to the bumper stickers, like I mentioned at the top. So I really appreciate

00:34:18.260 your time, Samuel. And I hope that, uh, we can continue this conversation another time.

00:34:22.020 Indeed. Thank you so much.

00:34:23.540 All right. That's Samuel say I'm Candace Malcolm, and this is the Candace Malcolm show.

00:34:34.100 I'm Candace Malcolm, and this is the Candace Malcolm, and this is the Candace Malcolm show.

Juno News - May 16, 2022

The pro-life movement in Canada has failed (Ft. Sam Sey)

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