Juno News - The RCMP is tapping cellphones but wants us to trust them

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:05.620 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:10.680 Coming up, the RCMP is spying on Canadian cell phones

00:00:14.180 and they're saying we should just trust them that they're not doing it to people that don't deserve it.

00:00:19.060 Also, United Conservative Party leadership candidate Brian Jean and Jasmine Moulton on fact-checking the left.

00:00:25.140 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:28.380 Hello and welcome to you all.

00:00:30.960 This is another edition of Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show, the Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:00:36.960 It is going to be a little bit of a busier show today.

00:00:40.020 We've got my new colleague Jasmine Moulton coming up on the program to talk about her show Reality Check, 0.59

00:00:45.820 debunking the left's and the media's lies and misinformation.

00:00:49.580 Also going to be speaking later on with United Conservative Party leadership candidate Brian Jean.

00:00:54.760 And I want to talk about this RCMP cell phone spying business because it's quite a significant story

00:01:01.500 and it might not be all that surprising, but I think it is still one we need to address.

00:01:05.820 And Marco Mendicino, the public safety minister's response to it has been lackluster at best.

00:01:12.560 But I want to, just before we get into that, follow up on a discussion that I had on a previous show this week

00:01:18.540 that I've had a lot of people asking me more and more questions about.

00:01:22.740 So I want to take an opportunity to clear it up a little bit.

00:01:25.640 It's about my discussion of the federal government easing the mask mandate for airports.

00:01:31.140 Now, there are a few key words here and I want to make sure I'm stressing them.

00:01:35.260 They did not get rid of the mask mandate for airports.

00:01:38.200 They eased them and they didn't get rid of the mask mandate for air travel in general.

00:01:43.020 Masking on planes remains unchanged.

00:01:44.960 This refers to airports specifically.

00:01:48.940 And the point that I was making is that the federal government eased the mask mandate for airports,

00:01:54.900 but didn't go all the way.

00:01:56.880 And more importantly, that individual airports are behaving differently about this.

00:02:02.160 So here's the change.

00:02:03.300 And I'll look exactly at the government's website.

00:02:05.560 And so far as I can tell, they didn't announce this change anywhere.

00:02:09.300 They didn't put it in a press release.

00:02:10.700 They just made the change.

00:02:12.140 And I learned about it from an airport website.

00:02:15.220 But nevertheless, on Transport Canada's website, mask requirements for traveling within Canada by air.

00:02:21.760 It says,

00:02:22.340 You will be asked to wear a mask or face covering at the security screening checkpoints, at the boarding gate, during the flight when you can't physically distance from others,

00:02:33.700 when asked by an airline employee, a public health official, staff from the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, or a Canada Border Services Agency officer.

00:02:43.280 And it goes on to say that you will be asked to wear one at the security screening process,

00:02:48.980 but you might have to take it off at the security screening process.

00:02:51.860 And you have to wear it when you're walking onto the plane, but you'll have to take it off when you're boarding, when they're checking your ID.

00:02:57.460 So obviously there are things that don't make sense here, but not listed in this is when you're walking around in the airport, when you're sitting at the gate,

00:03:06.520 when you are doing anything at the airport, apart from going through security, boarding, getting on the plane, or going through customs,

00:03:14.800 which admittedly are significant parts of the process.

00:03:17.800 But what I was saying is that if you have some seven-hour layover at Pearson, by the government's own standards right now,

00:03:24.340 you don't need to wear a mask when you're sitting around waiting for that flight when you used to.

00:03:30.020 And if you look at the Montreal airport website, YUL,

00:03:34.620 they say masks continue to be required by the government of Canada for all regulatory processes,

00:03:41.040 i.e. at checkpoints, at boarding, during the flight, and at the customs processing area.

00:03:46.620 So I wasn't saying that there are no mask mandates at all.

00:03:49.620 I was saying that the federal government quietly eased these rules, didn't draw any attention to it.

00:03:55.040 And it is something that I don't even give them credit for because it's like the minimum, it's below the bare minimum.

00:04:01.880 But I was just making a statement of fact that I only learned about this thing when I was walking around at Montreal airport

00:04:07.560 and was amazed that like even staff weren't wearing masks.

00:04:10.100 And then I looked into it further and saw that this is being very unevenly enforced depending on where you are.

00:04:16.240 So you can take from this information whatever you're going to take.

00:04:19.460 But my experience was when I was walking around Pearson airport without a mask, no one really cared and no one brought it up.

00:04:26.260 So take from that what you will.

00:04:28.100 But it was on June 18th.

00:04:30.260 And again, they still aren't saying you no longer need to wear a mask when you're doing this, this, this.

00:04:35.280 They're just saying it the other way, like you only need to be wearing a mask when you are doing this stuff.

00:04:41.260 So it's the negative situation there that you can draw into and focus on.

00:04:46.000 So nevertheless, I want to talk about this RCMP spying situation and Marco Mendicino not really seeming to care about it.

00:04:54.900 And the RCMP has basically said, just trust us.

00:04:59.240 What's come out in the last week in particular is that the RCMP has been using spyware to access people's communications on their cell phones for 20 years.

00:05:08.720 But more recently, they've started to use this other device, this other method referred to as on-device investigation tools,

00:05:18.320 which basically is spyware that allows police to access text messages, even to surreptitiously turn on a cell phone's camera or microphone.

00:05:28.740 And you may say, well, you know what?

00:05:30.900 I don't really care if a terrorist is getting their communications monitored by the government.

00:05:36.460 And, you know, that's fair.

00:05:37.620 If someone is actionably working on something that is terrorism or organized crime,

00:05:43.960 there is a very, very significant and clear evidence chain.

00:05:48.920 Police go to a judge and get a warrant for this.

00:05:51.280 I think that probably fits the bill of being a legitimate use of such technology.

00:05:56.160 The problem is that we know in the past police have cast a very wide net with these things.

00:06:01.660 Just look at their use of Clearview AI, a very contentious thing that

00:06:05.420 effectively builds a national database of people's faces to tie them to social media posts.

00:06:11.440 And it's so that your data exists on these government servers, actually a private company's servers.

00:06:18.180 And there's a reason that Clearview has been rejected.

00:06:21.260 And it was interesting looking at this one story in global news that plucked out some details where

00:06:25.980 the RCMP was saying, oh, no, no, no, no, we're using Canadian-made technology.

00:06:31.080 It's Canadian-made technology.

00:06:32.820 Great.

00:06:32.980 So even when police are spying on us, we're to be happy that it's apparently Canadian content that's facilitating it.

00:06:40.560 And there's a lot of uncertainty about how many times this has happened, about the raw numbers here.

00:06:45.940 And I want to talk about a little bit of this in detail here, because originally the RCMP said

00:06:51.200 it had used on-device investigation tools, so that's the spyware, 10 times between 2017 and 2018.

00:06:59.620 And then Brenda Luckey, the RCMP commissioner that we know runs interference for the Liberals,

00:07:05.460 filed documents that said the number was actually higher, that they used it in 32 investigations

00:07:10.440 targeting 49 individual devices in 2017 alone.

00:07:15.940 But still, oh, no, no, no, it's only in extremely limited cases, only used for serious criminal

00:07:21.600 offenses, and only if a judge approved.

00:07:24.700 And they are saying it's always targeted, it's time limited, it's never to conduct unwarranted

00:07:29.720 or mass surveillance.

00:07:31.380 I would be very interested in seeing, and I don't know if there's any evidence of this

00:07:36.180 that we could find yet, but I'd be very interested in seeing if they use this spyware to deal with

00:07:42.800 the Freedom Convoy.

00:07:43.720 And the reason I bring that up is that of several of the organizers that I interviewed for my book,

00:07:49.620 the Freedom Convoy, the inside story of three weeks that shook the world,

00:07:53.640 they were always very, very aware of the fact that intelligence agencies could be spying on them.

00:08:00.460 And they had all of these things that they tried to do to throw them off,

00:08:03.840 like when they were going into their meetings, they would leave their phones in a box outside the room.

00:08:08.000 And at one point, there was a camera in a room across the road, and again, it could have been

00:08:14.720 press, it could have been police, it could have been no one, but people were concerned this was

00:08:18.740 an investigation.

00:08:19.980 And they were concerned that the rooms they were using were bugged and all of that.

00:08:23.620 And all of this, I mean, Daniel Bulford, who was a former RCMP officer, and he was one of the

00:08:28.820 security leads for the convoy. A lot of this was him saying, if I were investigating us,

00:08:35.040 this is how I would do it. That was the sense I got from talking to some other people. But

00:08:40.360 nevertheless, the whole point here is that what they've done in the past suggests they would do

00:08:46.440 this now. And I don't trust them when they say, well, we're only using this in certain circumstances.

00:08:53.060 Yeah, we're being really good. We're being really nice. Yeah, we're not doing it to anyone that

00:08:57.260 doesn't deserve it and anyone that doesn't have it coming. Your privacy rights do not depend on

00:09:02.780 your moral virtue. And as long as it's tied to clear cut lawlessness, absolutely. But I would

00:09:11.140 love to hear from them owning up to what they have used this for. Are we just talking about terrorism?

00:09:17.980 If so, the wording of terrorism matters a great deal because you had some people that said the

00:09:21.640 convoy was terrorism. And most people in this country, I don't think, have significant faith

00:09:29.280 in the RCMP. And the stuff that happened with the Portapique investigation, where we learned how

00:09:34.120 deeply Brenda Luckey was really trying to make things easy for the liberals, that does not exactly

00:09:40.260 sound like something that should be inviting a lot of confidence in the RCMP's ability to pick and

00:09:46.240 choose how to handle investigations when we already know that they will put when needed,

00:09:51.380 or when they feel they need it, the liberal partisan goals above the integrity of the

00:09:57.280 investigation, at least at the very top. And we're so grateful that Commissioner Luckey had pushed back

00:10:02.660 from the officers in Nova Scotia when that happened. So what she has not done is owned up to the

00:10:09.040 discrepancy between the information they provided in June and what they shared with committee a couple of

00:10:14.860 days ago, which makes me think, what else are they not telling us? Now, Canada's former privacy watchdog

00:10:21.880 says he's surprised by it. This is Daniel Terrien, who was the privacy commissioner until last year. So

00:10:28.440 he was the privacy commissioner when all this was happening. And he said, you know, normally, if there's

00:10:32.420 something like this, the RCMP would go to the privacy commissioner and say, hey, this is what we're

00:10:37.280 thinking. But this didn't happen. So he's saying like, this is intrusive. Like, why did the privacy

00:10:42.700 commissioner not weigh in on this? And I would say, yes, what's the point of having a privacy commissioner

00:10:47.720 if when you are encroaching on the privacy rights of Canadians, you don't think, hey, you know, maybe

00:10:53.200 it's worth giving the privacy of commissioner a call. I mean, maybe they didn't need to. Maybe they

00:10:57.060 just, you know, already tapped his phone and heard what he was saying to other people and said, oh, yeah,

00:11:01.020 he won't be on board with this. So let's not ask him. To be clear, I have no evidence they tapped the

00:11:07.100 privacy commissioner's phone. This is what we call a joke, which in 2022, you have to spell out in such

00:11:12.560 immensely clear detail to people, because otherwise they will take it the wrong way in bad faith. But

00:11:18.620 what we are looking at here is a police force that's saying to us, yes, we're doing this. No,

00:11:26.220 we didn't tell you about it, but just trust us. And I am not going to go down so easily on that.

00:11:32.340 And I don't think Canadians should either. We'll be back in just a moment here. When we come back, 1.00

00:11:37.040 we'll talk to United Conservative Party leadership candidate Brian Jean.

00:11:43.740 You're tuned in to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:11:48.960 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show. We've been talking on and off about the UCP leadership race

00:11:54.820 in Alberta. Now, this is a particularly interesting race because unlike the federal conservative

00:12:00.440 leadership race, this one is going to be deciding the premiership of Alberta, not just the leadership

00:12:07.280 of the UCP. Whomever wins the leadership in October is going to go right to the premier seat,

00:12:13.880 replacing Jason Kenney. And then they'll have to try to renew that term in an election up against

00:12:19.240 Rachel Notley in the NDP. And why this is an interesting dynamic is because the stakes are

00:12:26.260 a lot higher. And we've seen Danielle Smith, who has been outside politics, come in and do very well

00:12:32.480 talking about the importance of really resisting the Kenney government's COVID policies, talking about

00:12:37.960 Alberta sovereignty. Brian Jean, the former Wild Rose leader, actually, they're both former Wild Rose

00:12:44.180 leaders. He's now been elected as a UCP MLA in a by-election. Very critical of Jason Kenney. He's

00:12:51.240 been very critical of the COVID situation, but he's also tried to be a lot more broad in his appeal

00:12:57.260 compared to Danielle Smith. And it's been interesting to see the contrast between these two. We've had

00:13:03.060 Danielle Smith on the show. We've also had Rebecca Schultz on the show. Interestingly enough, I asked Lila

00:13:08.900 here a while back if she would come on the show and her campaign said, why don't you just send us a 0.99

00:13:13.520 questionnaire and we'll, you know, fill it out and send it back to you? And I'm like, well, like, what

00:13:18.140 do I do? Just read that on my show? No. And I've asked and haven't been able to to get her on. So

00:13:22.660 other requests have gone to other candidates as well. But in any case, let me now bring into the

00:13:28.020 program UCP MLA from up in Fort McMurray and also UCP leadership candidate Brian Jean. Brian, good to

00:13:35.160 talk to you. Thanks for coming on today. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. So let's start first off with

00:13:40.980 the theme of your campaign here. You're talking about autonomy for Alberta, but you're distinguishing

00:13:46.300 this from the sovereignty and separation debate. So what is it that your campaign is really about?

00:13:51.980 And what is it that autonomy is about in your eyes? Well, autonomy and sovereignty are a little

00:13:57.240 bit different. And, you know, I'm not about building walls. I'm about tearing them down and bringing people

00:14:01.820 together. Autonomy is about a series of freedoms, personal autonomy, my body, my choice, financial

00:14:09.820 autonomy. You know, I believe people should own houses, own businesses, own, have individual ownership

00:14:16.440 of things. I think that's a better scenario. It makes them feel freer and happier. And of course, that's part of

00:14:21.620 my theme of my campaign as well. And not just financial autonomy, employment autonomy, but also community

00:14:29.640 autonomy. As a Christian, you know, I think it's very important that we protect people's rights to be able to, you know,

00:14:36.080 enjoy the freedoms that they have. I, for instance, was appalled at the arrest of a pastor. It never would

00:14:41.960 happen under a Brian Jean-led government ever, nor would we ever shutter churches. That's just, in my

00:14:48.240 opinion, religious persecution. I thought so at the time. I continued to think that now, and it would 0.99

00:14:51.840 never happen under a Brian Jean government. And that's why I wanted to make sure autonomy was clear

00:14:55.900 in people's minds. I'm not interested in sovereignty or separation. I am interested in making sure that we

00:15:00.920 have as many rights as we possibly can here in Alberta for Albertans, not just for Alberta,

00:15:05.700 but for Albertans. And that's why I want also more autonomy for Albertans within Canada. And that

00:15:09.600 means if other Canadians get to enjoy the rights and privileges that Canada give them, we should

00:15:15.080 get the same rights and privileges. And right now we don't, whether it's unemployment insurance,

00:15:18.400 whether it's our pension issues or, you know, many different opportunities in other provinces that

00:15:24.000 we don't have here in Alberta. I'm going to make sure that we have all the opportunities that any

00:15:27.640 other Canadian has in any other province. And I think that's very important. That's what it's

00:15:30.660 about. It's about autonomy, about freedom, personal freedom, freedom to make choices,

00:15:33.920 freedom to be without government intervention, freedom to know that you get up in the day,

00:15:37.540 in the morning, that you're going to be happier and healthier because, you know, I've made it very

00:15:42.400 clear that the theme of my campaign is autonomy, but it's also the end goal is to be happier and

00:15:49.240 healthier, to be more free, most free and most prosperous people in Canada and the world. And, you know,

00:15:55.580 but you want freedom? Well, if you want health and you want happiness, you have to have freedom.

00:16:01.000 It's very clear. If you want to have happiness, you have to have a good healthcare system. That's

00:16:05.880 very clear. You have to make sure that people are wealthy and prosperous or else they're not going

00:16:10.280 to be able to make the decisions they want as far as autonomy goes. And autonomy is about good

00:16:14.060 conservative principles of people making their own decisions for their own life based on their own

00:16:18.260 priorities. And that's what it's all about for me, whether it's personal choice, whether it's

00:16:21.520 business community, whether it's your religious or other community, you deserve the freedom to decide

00:16:27.180 what you want to decide for your future, your priorities, your community priorities,

00:16:32.000 your personal priorities, your family priorities, those things government should stay out of and

00:16:36.020 other people should stay out of and you should be able to enjoy them as much as possible. And

00:16:39.100 that's what autonomy is for me. It's about staying in Canada, about trying to fix Canada. I know it's

00:16:43.200 broken. There's no question. I think everybody recognizes that, but trying to fix Canada through

00:16:46.880 a proper negotiation, sitting down at the constitutional table and trying to get a fair deal. Because right now

00:16:52.800 we're too afraid of getting any deal at all. So we're thinking that, you know, we're going to be

00:16:55.980 pressured and, and, and frankly, bullied by the bigger provinces. It's not the case right now is

00:17:00.900 a tremendous opportunity because every province in Canada knows that they're not getting enough

00:17:05.220 healthcare funding based upon what the federal government's requiring every, every, almost every

00:17:09.700 government in Canada recognizes that the pipeline ban is absolutely an infringement on our section 92

00:17:15.400 rights under the constitution. And, you know, all of these things are actually guiding our

00:17:22.380 principles of change. And what I'm saying there is in particular, I've been working on this

00:17:27.380 particular passion to open up the constitution through equalization. That was a tool we use. 0.71

00:17:33.120 And, you know, as wild rose leader, we talked about making sure that we could open up the

00:17:37.960 constitution so we can get to that point where more Albertans could have more autonomy and more

00:17:41.640 freedoms. And we're going to push that through. Let's talk about the equalization aspect

00:17:46.460 specifically. We know that Albertans overwhelmingly voted to really reevaluate the equalization system

00:17:53.540 that we have right now. And obviously the prevailing thesis is that when a province comes together like

00:17:59.060 that and votes in such a way, the federal government has to negotiate, but a duty to negotiate, a

00:18:04.300 constitutional duty to negotiate is not a duty or requirement to give any concession. And the liberals

00:18:09.900 have been consistently resistant to, I think, respecting a lot of the concerns that Albertans

00:18:16.080 have. So what would you do differently or what would you do to actually get what it is that Alberta

00:18:21.640 wants and needs from the federal government at that negotiating table? I'm glad you asked that

00:18:26.160 because other candidates are talking about getting angry and what we're going to do up to a certain

00:18:30.880 point, but they have no answers for what happens afterwards. So they're riling people up, getting people

00:18:35.720 mad for no reason. We live in an amazing country. It's a free country. And the Constitution clearly

00:18:44.240 lays out that under Section 46, if a majority of a population in a certain area is dissatisfied with

00:18:49.820 the current Confederation and how they're being treated under Confederation, we can send a notice

00:18:54.980 after receiving a clear mandate from the people, a majority of the people, a good majority, we can send

00:19:01.080 that mandate to the people under the Section 46 notice and they have to sit down and negotiate with us.

00:19:05.160 And if they don't, then we go to the Supreme Court of Canada and ask for reference. Listen,

00:19:08.460 you know, let's be clear here. I'm the only lawyer, litigator, person that spent 10 years

00:19:12.940 practicing the law here in Alberta. I know how it works. I'm not guessing it. I don't have to talk to

00:19:16.800 another government bureaucrat lawyer to tell me how to pursue this and how to go forward. I've spent

00:19:22.180 enough time understanding both 10 years federally as a member of parliament, as a parliamentary secretary,

00:19:26.820 and as a practicing law in Alberta for 10 years. And then as a business person, I know what

00:19:31.000 Albertans want. They want more autonomy, more freedom, less oversight and overwatch from Ottawa.

00:19:36.520 I mean, that's where all the gatekeepers are. That's what we have to remove from.

00:19:39.480 But if the Constitution gets them to the table, what do you do at the table that will get that change you need?

00:19:44.920 Get the rest of the provinces on side to get better healthcare funding, get more rights in the Senate

00:19:51.880 and the House of Commons so we actually have equal votes across the country. There are so many things

00:19:56.760 that we need to change. The fiscal imbalance is clearly there. Equalization is one of those things.

00:20:01.480 The rest of the provinces, the premiers are ready to go to the table over the pipeline ban.

00:20:05.400 We're ready. You know, you have to wait. Timing is everything. And we started this process as

00:20:09.800 Wildrose leader on equalization referendum. I think five years ago, six years ago, almost now,

00:20:15.000 I got three economists from across the country to recognize that we're sending $20 billion more per

00:20:20.600 year to Ottawa than we get back in services. And we have to do something about that. That is absolutely

00:20:27.080 essential. And right now is a great time to do it. All the other provinces are ready to sit down and

00:20:31.480 Albertans are too. But if they don't listen, if they don't agree to negotiate, where are we going

00:20:37.720 to be? Well, I think Albertans are going to be angry. I know I would be if they didn't sit down

00:20:42.920 and talk to me if they just told us to buzz off. That's when we have to make the next step. And that's

00:20:49.320 when Albertans get to decide whether we use every single tool in our toolbox to establish our autonomy,

00:20:55.000 to establish our rights to Section 92, our resources, our people, our healthcare, our education,

00:21:01.080 you know, some people are making up stories about Trudeau coming in here and taking our kids and

00:21:04.680 forcing them to be vaxxed and at school in order to continue school. Well, folks, people are lying

00:21:11.720 to you. Justin Trudeau has no ability to do anything with our kids in schools or schools.

00:21:18.680 He has no ability to do so to infringe in our lives. And we have to stop listening to the chatter out

00:21:23.480 there and just deal with what we need to deal with. And that is to renegotiate the Constitution so

00:21:27.480 that Albertans feel their part of Confederation. And if they don't agree to us doing that, then

00:21:31.960 we're going to be using other tools that are available at our disposal. And I know what those

00:21:35.400 tools are. And we will do whatever we need to do in order to get those tools to the people of

00:21:39.320 Alberta and make a decision on how we go forward after that. But I don't think Canada wants to be

00:21:43.800 in a position where they're going to make Albertans angry. No, I would agree in general with that,

00:21:50.440 but I'm still not getting a sense of the how because I agree that getting to the table is itself

00:21:55.320 an important step in the process here. And I also appreciate that you're saying,

00:21:58.680 let's not look at equalization and isolation. Let's also talk about health care. Let's also

00:22:03.080 talk about representation. So if you're going to have this full scale discussion,

00:22:07.720 what are the red lines for you? Because a negotiation is give and take. What are the

00:22:11.240 things that you will absolutely not compromise on? And what are the things that you really expect

00:22:15.960 the government to hand over that are without that, in your view, not a real good faith negotiation?

00:22:22.360 Well, I look at this the same as I look at a corporate negotiation or a relationship

00:22:28.840 negotiation. And that is people sit down at the table in order to try to settle things,

00:22:34.200 to solve things so they can move on together. I don't think we have to look at a divorce and

00:22:38.520 go nuclear immediately. That's what some people are suggesting. I think what we need to do is sit

00:22:43.160 down and negotiate. What forces them to negotiate? The opportunity to continue on as the prime minister

00:22:48.840 and the premier in government. That's what helps them continue the opportunity. But I'm asking

00:22:52.600 what happens at the negotiating table. Let's assume that we've gotten there. What do you do at that

00:22:57.480 table that gets you the changes that you're promising Albertans? Find all the things that

00:23:02.920 bring us together as a country in each province. Because like I said, there's a lot of things that

00:23:06.680 people are dissatisfied with right now. There's some things they're satisfied with. For instance,

00:23:10.360 PEI has about 40,000 people or so per MP. Alberta has 120,000 people per MP. Well,

00:23:17.560 PEI is probably satisfied with that. But places like Ontario aren't. Places like Quebec aren't.

00:23:23.000 They're never going to be satisfied with their representation no matter what happens unless

00:23:26.040 they're on their own. Let's be clear. We have to find that commonality, those things to bring us

00:23:31.000 together so we can figure out how to go forward. The Supreme Court of Canada in the reference case in

00:23:36.120 Quebec has laid out a path. Now, I will tell you the Laurentian elite, the Ottawa entitled,

00:23:43.240 they're the ones that made sure along with the Supreme Court of Canada that there was a path ready

00:23:47.560 for the people of Quebec to decide on how they wanted to go forward. And what would happen for

00:23:52.600 the people of Quebec if indeed there was a 51, 60% leverage like we had here in Alberta that said,

00:23:57.800 we want to open up the constitution. We want to change. We want to leave. Well, the Supreme Court of

00:24:02.600 Canada laid out a path according to section 46 of the constitution giving notice, legal notice by the

00:24:08.040 way, of the necessity to negotiate that path for the people of Quebec. Little did they understand

00:24:13.880 that the people of Alberta would be using that same path in order to force negotiations and to take the

00:24:19.560 next step and find those tools that we need to do. I want to have our own pension plan. I want to have

00:24:23.960 our own unemployment insurance plan. Why? Because right now we're paying far more than we need to.

00:24:28.840 That's an unmentioned equalization. We're paying far more in our pension plan and our unemployment

00:24:33.720 insurance plan because of our nature of our population and how much we work and how much

00:24:37.480 we make compared to other places. Well, I understand that, but that's still equalization.

00:24:41.000 The people that work longer hours need more support systems. They need better daycare for their children.

00:24:46.920 They need to make sure that they have better mental supports, better health supports. We need more

00:24:51.320 staying here in Alberta to support the type of lifestyle we have and they need to stop taking that $20

00:24:55.720 billion a year and spreading it out to their friends. That will be the first thing we deal with,

00:25:00.120 but there's so many other things and the rest of Canada are ready. But who forces this? Well, just like

00:25:06.680 anybody forces it, we have a judge in cases of a divorce or mediation or separation or a corporate

00:25:13.320 commercial contract that needs to be renegotiated. We have a judge. This is the rule of law that we're guided by

00:25:18.680 here in Canada and the rule of law is guided substantially or primarily by the Supreme Court

00:25:24.280 of Canada. They will make sure that Albertans have the rights as they're supposed to under the

00:25:30.040 constitution and they will make sure that we have the opportunity to have that discussion about what

00:25:34.680 the next step is to renegotiate the constitution because they need to protect that for the people of

00:25:40.760 Quebec. We're just going to use it first and we really appreciate them laying out path for us and being

00:25:45.640 clear on how we can go about it to get our fair treatment from the people of Canada. And frankly,

00:25:51.480 it's not the people of Canada. It's more the Liberal politicians from out East. They seem to want to pick

00:25:55.640 on Albertans because it gets the more votes there. And I know it does. And that's what disgusts me is,

00:26:00.120 is right now the Prime Minister and the Liberal caucus are beating up Albertans and primarily the West,

00:26:05.560 rural West, in order to get votes in Quebec and Ontario and Eastern Canada. Now, who wants to support

00:26:12.440 a Prime Minister or a Premier that divides people? We need to find the things that bring people

00:26:16.440 together. And that's what I'm going to do as the Premier of Alberta. I'm going to bring people

00:26:20.440 together, find the things that we have in common instead of dividing us. And that's where we need

00:26:25.800 to go with our path in the future is bringing Albertans together to be solid, to be strong,

00:26:30.120 because we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

00:26:32.280 You mentioned earlier, Brian, that you significantly and strongly oppose the jailing of pastors,

00:26:37.800 the shuttering of churches. And I think that's a very important position to take.

00:26:41.960 What about some of the broader COVID policies here? Because I know Premier Kenney, when he sort of

00:26:47.080 addressed why he thought the membership turned on him, he thought it was entirely about the COVID

00:26:52.520 situation. And I think there are some disagreements about whether that was really the limitation of

00:26:57.560 the frustrations. But vaccine passports, could you take them off the table entirely as Premier?

00:27:03.720 Yes. For the need for vaccine passports in Alberta, 100% gone.

00:27:09.240 And restrictions in general, capacity restrictions?

00:27:13.480 I want to be clear that religious persecution is what happened here in Alberta. I really believe that. 0.99

00:27:17.800 As a Christian, as a born again Christian, I would never do that to any religion because that is

00:27:22.600 religious persecution. It's unacceptable. Lockdowns as a whole are extremely hurtful to people's mental

00:27:29.880 and physical health. It is extremely hurtful and painful for families and for businesses,

00:27:34.840 and it should not happen. So, you know, for me, I just, I think lockdowns should be a resort that we

00:27:41.240 never, ever fall into. And to be honest, I'm the only candidate that's come forward with, yes,

00:27:48.840 we will not have lockdowns. But not only that, I will bind future governments, future Premiers,

00:27:53.960 to make sure if they try to do a lockdown, which we can never stop. Let's be clear.

00:27:57.720 I can tell you what I'm going to do or not do, but I can't tell you what the next person's going to do

00:28:01.800 unless I put a whole bunch of blockades and barricades in front of them. And I propose that.

00:28:05.640 People are not watching that. But what I've proposed is, let's make sure that every Emergency

00:28:09.560 Act, anytime anybody has the opportunity to open up and close things, open up the Emergency Act and

00:28:16.040 close down people's businesses or homes, well, they have to make sure that they're transparent

00:28:20.680 on those decisions. So, no more cabinet secrets, which is going on right now and has been going on

00:28:24.280 for two years. No more cabinet secrets on that stuff at all. And just make sure that people understand

00:28:30.040 why they're making the decisions and that caucus, the government caucus, actually has to vote on it

00:28:37.640 within two months of it being put in place and has to confirm that it's valid. And anything that

00:28:43.160 happens, depending on what level of lockdown it is, there would be judicial inquiry, a public inquiry,

00:28:49.560 a huge, huge onerous provision on future governments. And the fact that it would be

00:28:56.760 transparent cabinet decisions, I think people would change their mind very quickly about doing

00:29:01.080 lockdowns because we've seen this. But is this all about lockdowns for Jason Kenney and the government?

00:29:06.440 No, it's not. Let's be clear. Before COVID came on the scene, we were looking at a situation where

00:29:13.560 the Premier was not popular, where he was spiraling into a situation of non-confidence by the people of

00:29:18.600 Alberta. And it's clear that COVID didn't help any, but we're at a crossroads right now. And if we don't renew

00:29:24.840 and revitalize the party, the UCP, you know, the NUP are going to win. And I just can't have that. I was watching from

00:29:31.400 the, from Fort Memorial as I took care of my family after, after leaving politics and taking care of

00:29:37.080 three estates and, and my businesses and, and the people of Fort Memorial mean a lot to me because

00:29:42.120 obviously that's been my home for my entire life. And, and I think Rachel Notley wins, we're going to

00:29:46.520 lose Fort Memorial. They're going to shut down my town. They're going to shut down a lot of what's going

00:29:49.960 on in Alberta. And I just can't have that happen. An overwhelming NDP majority with Justin Trudeau in

00:29:54.440 Ottawa will destroy my community and my province. And I can't let that happen. That's why I did what I did.

00:29:59.000 That's why I wanted to renew the party. And that's why I'm so excited about the opportunity of

00:30:03.240 possibly being premier, having that privilege and being able to take Albertans to that task,

00:30:08.360 to the equalization formula, to where we were going five, six years ago on our path. And I have

00:30:13.400 passion and purpose for that. It's not just, you know, oh, that's good policy about lockdowns or about

00:30:18.920 churches, or that's what I believe. That's what I believe. So it's not hard to put forward policies

00:30:26.360 that you believe in because those are the things that Albertans want to hear. They want to hear

00:30:30.600 somebody that actually believes what they're doing, not just that they're doing it because the people

00:30:35.720 are pushing that way. Let me just ask you one final question. Then on that note,

00:30:40.360 you talked about Rachel Notley. If you win the leadership, you become the premier of Alberta,

00:30:44.200 but you'll also have to run for reelection very soon after. There have been a lot of internal struggles

00:30:49.480 in the UCP, a lot of people that have frustrations with the status quo under Premier Kenney.

00:30:55.000 How confident are you that you could turn around these challenges in time to win a general election?

00:31:01.160 Well, you know, there's been discussion about me saying I'd put the Rachel Notley in my cabinet. And

00:31:05.880 I can't think of anything more ridiculous than having Rachel Notley make decisions for Albertans. And 0.92

00:31:11.240 me suggesting that she's going to make somehow decisions for Albertans is ludicrous.

00:31:15.080 I never really understood how people interpreted that from what you actually said there.

00:31:21.640 I know. I know. What I said was, let's take the politics out of COVID because people are dying

00:31:25.880 because politicians are playing politics with people's lives. Let's take the politics out of, 0.98

00:31:30.520 you know what Rachel Notley did? She took the politics out of the fire when I was the opposition 0.99

00:31:35.320 leader. I asked and she made sure that I was able to be briefed on everything. My staff knew what was

00:31:39.880 going on. And all of a sudden I was in a situation where I knew everything that was going on.

00:31:43.400 Both of us were working for the people of Fort McMurray and Alberta at the time,

00:31:47.800 and she totally took politics out of it because I couldn't play politics. Not that I wanted to,

00:31:52.760 but some people do. Some politicians are prepared to play with people's lives in order for their own

00:31:58.440 agenda. That's not acceptable. Why I wanted to do that for Rachel Notley and get her involved in COVID,

00:32:04.360 only so she could listen and she couldn't play politics because it would stop the NDP from doing so.

00:32:09.480 How do you play politics when you're actually privy to all of the information and you're there

00:32:13.800 when the decisions are being made? Not only do you have to keep them confidential, but you can't play

00:32:18.680 the political game that Rachel Notley has been playing. We have to look beyond just the hard and

00:32:24.280 fast, passionate partisanship of politics. We have to think smart about how we do things that are better

00:32:30.120 for the people. Better for the people is certainly taking the politics out of very dangerous situations.

00:32:36.280 Winston Churchill did it. We did it at the time of Confederation when we were drafting the Constitution.

00:32:42.680 We take politics out of it because it's better for the people. Would I want to put Rachel in charge 0.99

00:32:48.520 of anything? Listen, the reason why I'm back right now and I put my family life on hold and my businesses

00:32:53.800 and everything else on hold is because I don't want Rachel Notley to win the next election. I will

00:32:58.520 do whatever I can as the Premier and the leader of the UCP within the obligations and rights that we

00:33:05.160 have as politicians to make sure that Rachel Notley does not form government and make sure that we unite

00:33:10.440 the Conservative movement here in Alberta behind the UCP and win the next election by an overwhelming

00:33:15.320 majority so we can bring in the good policies for Albertans because you know what? It should be for

00:33:20.520 Albertans and other people have talked about what they would do. Well, let me tell you, look at my

00:33:25.320 background and see where I have done things, where I have resigned my position and gave up a paycheck

00:33:30.440 in order that we can unite these parties so we can bring them together into a movement. That's what

00:33:35.320 I'm interested in because that movement should represent Albertans and Albertans should be the

00:33:39.960 beneficiary of every single decision that a Premier, a Cabinet and a caucus make for them.

00:33:45.080 UCP MLA and leadership candidate Brian Jean. Brian, thank you so much for coming on.

00:33:51.400 Thank you. My pleasure as always and great to be here. How do all your listeners?

00:33:55.960 That was Brian Jean, UCP leadership candidate. We are going to take a quick break here. When we

00:34:02.040 come back, we will talk about the importance of standing firm in truth and facts, especially in this

00:34:07.480 era. That'll be with my colleague Jasmine Moulton straight ahead. You're tuned in to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:34:18.840 Welcome back to the Andrew Lawton Show. Jamming a few things in the show today, but there's been a

00:34:23.160 lot that's going on and a lot of conversations I wanted to have. One of them with my new colleague

00:34:28.520 Jasmine Moulton, who just joined the True North team a couple of weeks ago and is hosting a new

00:34:33.160 weekly show called Reality Check with Jasmine Moulton. And it's been great to have her aboard.

00:34:39.480 Jasmine, thanks for coming on today. Great to be here, Andrew. Thanks for having me.

00:34:44.120 Now, I've met you a number of times in the past before you joined True North. And I think more

00:34:48.840 recently, a lot of our listeners may have been familiar with you through your work for the Canadian

00:34:52.920 Taxpayers Federation. So you're a bit of a tax fighter, but what are the other issues that you

00:34:57.400 care about that you're bringing to your new show? Well, I think I have a bit of a unique perspective,

00:35:02.680 at least when it comes to the media world. I grew up on a farm in southwestern Ontario,

00:35:07.560 so already that kind of sets you apart from the city centers where a lot of media comes from.

00:35:13.880 But I also ran a small business for a number of years. So after I started out on Parliament Hill,

00:35:19.560 then as a lot of Hill staffers do, they enter the real world and get a real job off the Hill. So

00:35:26.760 I started a business, ran a small business, a small digital marketing firm in Toronto for a number of

00:35:31.400 years before selling it to a firm out of New York. And so I'd say that small business or just business

00:35:38.040 matters generally are I'm really passionate about. And that was actually what sparked my interest in

00:35:42.840 the Canadian Taxpayers Federation as well. I remember at the time, Kathleen Wynne was raising taxes in

00:35:49.160 Ontario. It seemed like Justin Trudeau was raising taxes at the federal level. And I remember at the

00:35:54.680 time, Kathleen Wynne, so I was hustling, I was working to put myself through school, I was running

00:36:00.840 my business in Toronto. And I remember as the government, you know, both at both the federal

00:36:05.480 and provincial level seemed to be colluding to make it harder to run a business. Kathleen Wynne was also 1.00

00:36:11.400 spending tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, I can't remember, a lot of money to put

00:36:16.920 this inflatable yellow duck in Lake Ontario. I don't know if any of your listeners will remember

00:36:22.600 that. But I just thought, why am I working so hard, you know, struggling to run my business,

00:36:27.720 put myself through school, and all this tax money that I'm paying, and as a business owner, you're

00:36:33.000 keenly aware of just how much tax you pay, was going into this inflatable yellow duck in Lake Ontario. So

00:36:39.320 that was an issue that put the Canadian Taxpayers Federation on my radar. Love the work that they do, 0.87

00:36:44.920 really passionate about their mission. Wish there were more organizations like that in Canada,

00:36:50.280 but was very, very proud of my work there. It is interesting how this rubber duck, and I remember

00:36:57.800 the story well, as soon as you mentioned it there, how this became such a galvanizing issue. And it

00:37:02.280 reminds me of this age old truth that seems to be the case that it's not the big ticket items that

00:37:09.240 always are the ones that really are the most jarring to people. It's the weird, quirky, memorable ones.

00:37:14.360 I mean, $16 glass of orange juice now in the Canadian political parlance is,

00:37:19.000 I think, ubiquitous. And it's not because $16 is all that much. I mean, it is for an orange juice,

00:37:23.320 but it's just because of the absurdity of that and the disconnect between government and ordinary

00:37:28.280 people. And same as the rubber duck. It's not the biggest line item in the budget. If you were to get

00:37:32.200 rid of it, it wouldn't solve all the debt and deficit problems. But it's a reminder of the fact that

00:37:36.760 these people don't spend money the way we all have to.

00:37:39.320 Yeah, that's so true. You know, and when you look at, unfortunately, I think Trudeau is adding over

00:37:45.800 a billion dollars a day to the debt in Canada. A lot of people wouldn't know that or don't pay

00:37:51.080 attention to that, but they certainly would remember Bavota's $16 orange juice. You know,

00:37:57.320 really, it is important, I think, to bring light to some of the bigger spending and bigger waste stories.

00:38:03.320 But those small ones really do seem to get under taxpayer skin.

00:38:07.000 Let's talk a little bit about the show itself, Reality Check, because you're not just talking

00:38:11.960 about the issues and blathering into a microphone like I do. There's a place for that. Please don't

00:38:16.440 turn off your TV or podcast device or whatever you're watching or listening to this on. But you're

00:38:21.160 taking a bit of a unique spin to the topics. What's the model of this show?

00:38:24.520 So Reality Check, as you mentioned, is the new show that I've launched with True North.

00:38:29.160 Really proud to be bringing this. I think it's great content that all of True North listeners

00:38:33.720 and subscribers will love. It's a new show. It's going to come out every Wednesday in podcast format,

00:38:38.760 but also on YouTube. So you can watch or listen to the show. And basically what we do every week is

00:38:45.560 debunk some of the common fallacies that the left hold in Canada. So, you know, some of the favorite

00:38:53.480 favorite leftist talking points and specifically with a Canadian angle. So I love a lot of political

00:39:01.080 shows. I listen to a lot out of the US because there aren't a ton in Canada. I mean, I love True

00:39:07.800 North's content. I think it's so important. And that's why I'm really honored to be adding to it

00:39:12.680 with uniquely Canadian content that will, I think, provide a lot of value to our listeners. So

00:39:18.760 essentially what I'll aim to do every show is equip our listeners with the facts and logic and stats,

00:39:24.920 et cetera, that they need to counter leftist fallacies when they hear them in everyday conversation.

00:39:31.080 One thing that strikes me is that fact checking is no longer politically neutral. I think it used

00:39:36.680 to be that we understood that facts and truth existed in this way that was above partisanship. It

00:39:42.440 didn't sway one way or another. But I mean, the idea of misinformation, disinformation,

00:39:47.640 fact checking, even all these websites like Snopes that when you and I were younger were

00:39:51.880 really the authority on debunking internet untruths, these are all compromised in a way. So

00:39:57.000 the idea of actually fact checking the fact checkers in some respects and using an approach that as you

00:40:02.600 just lay out there is sticking to the facts has never been more important.

00:40:07.480 Oh, for sure. And there's just a lot of spin. So one example would be,

00:40:12.040 one of my favorites was when I was working at the Canadian Taxpayers Federation,

00:40:17.960 teachers unions in Ontario would always talk about cuts that Doug Ford was making,

00:40:21.880 even though he had brought education spending to all time highs in Ontario. They kept talking

00:40:27.720 about these cuts. Well, what they actually meant was that he was slowing the rate at which their

00:40:33.400 salaries would go up. So that's a pretty clever spin. I mean, slowing the rate at which you get a raise

00:40:40.120 is not the same as deducting money from your salary. So I think the left gets pretty creative in the way

00:40:46.600 that they spin issues. And unfortunately, there's just been kind of a void in the media, the legacy

00:40:52.520 media, nobody calls them out on this. And it's not even that I'm taking a partisan approach. It's,

00:40:58.520 you know, when conservatives say and do silly things, I call them out too. But oftentimes in the left, 0.90

00:41:04.920 and we do see, I think, a bit of a tilt in the legacy media toward leftist thought. And it's all

00:41:11.960 very uniform. You know, I think that there is a spot, certainly a market opportunity here for

00:41:19.960 some, not necessarily fact checking, but just looking at statistics trends, honestly, not with a

00:41:25.800 partisan, you know, ideological lens, but just reminding Canadians that, you know, these are,

00:41:32.120 this is actually what's going on and offering an alternative look at things.

00:41:37.880 Yeah. And I would also say not to start writing how you should do your shows or anything, but I

00:41:42.360 think there's an appetite for taking these things out of the abstract realm. I mean, this has been

00:41:47.080 one of my grievances historically with conservatives is that they talk a lot about low taxes, good,

00:41:53.000 low regulation, good, which, okay, fine. But if you're not on board with the ideology, if you're not an

00:41:58.440 ideologue or a partisan, it's not always clear how that relates to you. When people say, you know,

00:42:03.320 taxes are too high, okay, tell me, how much is it costing you? And we say this carbon tax rebate

00:42:08.280 that the government's giving you isn't actually covering what they're taking from you. Exactly how

00:42:12.680 much is this costing your family? And I think that's often been missing in discussions that are

00:42:17.240 very sometimes abstract and academic.

00:42:19.800 Absolutely. And that's why I'm so thankful to be partnering, working with True North on this,

00:42:26.760 because I think so often we get swept away in the virtue of a lot of these stories. Some of them

00:42:31.880 might be feel good stories. For example, you know, when Trudeau or Justin, Justin Trudeau or Jagmeet

00:42:37.480 Singh talk about the rich and, and, you know, how they need to pay their fair share. These are very

00:42:43.080 emotional arguments or True North coverage on, you know, the quote unquote mass graves out west.

00:42:51.800 I think that it's important. I think we owe it to all involved and certainly to the mass public that

00:42:57.720 we're reporting these stories to, to give the full story, not to get swept away in emotion.

00:43:02.760 And unfortunately that is just what happens too often in our politics and they're, you know,

00:43:07.080 friends in the legacy media.

00:43:08.440 Yeah. Very well said. Well, I know you only have a little bit under your belt,

00:43:13.160 as far as this show is concerned, but what's on the show this week?

00:43:16.280 So this week we're talking about housing affordability in Canada.

00:43:19.560 And this one is actually, I'm really excited about there's normally we focus on leftist fallacies and,

00:43:27.400 you know, things that the leftists like to repeat and reiterate. But I would say that across the

00:43:32.280 political spectrum in Canada, there's a lot of, not necessarily misinformation, but a lot of

00:43:39.960 common phrases that are used with regard to, you know, the causes behind housing affordability that

00:43:44.360 are just not true. And they're easily debunked with stats or other facts that, you know, from

00:43:51.880 Statistics Canada, for example. Again, it's not a partisan approach to this issue. And when you dig into

00:43:59.160 issues like, for example, this week, we're focusing, as I said, on housing for affordability,

00:44:05.080 there's actually a surprising amount of common ground that you can find with people on the

00:44:09.880 opposite side of the political aisle. I mean, we don't deny that there's having housing affordability

00:44:15.400 crisis in this country. We do maybe disagree on some of the culprits behind it, and certainly on

00:44:20.760 some of the solutions. And those are the points that we'll be going through this week.

00:44:24.440 All right. Well, it's a great show. Reality Check with Jasmine Moulton comes out every Wednesday on

00:44:30.360 True North. So you can get caught up and then start watching them in real time as they happen

00:44:34.920 starting today. Thank you so much, Jasmine, and welcome to the team. It's great to have you.

00:44:39.640 Thanks so much, Andrew.

00:44:41.160 Jasmine Moulton, host of Reality Check on True North. That'll do it for us for today. I'm actually

00:44:46.360 away next week, so there won't be any editions of The Andrew Lawton Show, but I encourage you to go to

00:44:51.320 tnc.news and check out all of my colleagues. Fantastic work there, and I'll be back in a

00:44:56.760 couple of weeks' time. Have a good one, everyone. Thank you. God bless, and good day to you all.

00:45:00.760 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show. Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - August 11, 2022

The RCMP is tapping cellphones but wants us to trust them

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