The REAL STORY behind Carney’s meeting with the premiers + Alberta independence (ft. Ted Morton)
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Summary
Candice Malan talks about Prime Minister Mark Carney's meeting with the premiers of Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan, and why she's a little worried about what's to come from this meeting. She also talks about what she thinks of the media coverage of the meeting, including some of the glowing headlines from legacy media outlets and the National Post.
Transcript
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Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show. We have a great episode for you
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folks. We have Dr. Ted Morton joining the program in just a little bit. But first, I want to talk
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about what happened yesterday in Saskatoon. So as you know, Prime Minister Mark Carney met with
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the premiers in Saskatoon for their annual first ministers meeting. This meeting was focused on
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nation building, focused on removing interprovincial trade barriers to strengthen
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Canada's economy amid U.S. trade pressures. Now, if you listen to the legacy media, if you watch the
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CBC, they will tell you that this meeting was a staggering success, that Mark Carney is a grown-up,
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that he commanded the room, that he seems committed to working together, even with conservative
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premiers, to grow our economy. Let me just give you a sample of some of the glowing media coverage that
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he received. So here is our friends over at the National Post. The best meeting we've had in 10
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years, Carney premiers united on nation building projects. Next, from the CBC, premiers express
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optimism after pitching major projects to Carney. Next, CTV News says premiers heap praise on meeting
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with Mark Carney, but no specific projects identified. That's a key point. We'll get to that in a minute.
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Next, from Global News, Mark Carney and premiers say they're united on energy projects, but no final list.
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And even the Calgary Herald, check out this headline, folks. Daniel Smith vows to work with Carney,
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says he's way better than Justin Trudeau. Alberta Premier Danielle Smith hasn't scored a pipeline,
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but she's willing to work with Prime Minister Carney, saying he is nothing like Justin Trudeau. So if
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you just listen to that, you would think, wow, Canada's on the right track. Mark Carney has sure
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gotten the job done. And I'm willing to hold out hope for optimism. I'm a generally optimistic person
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about the future. Maybe Mark Carney really is nothing like Justin Trudeau. Maybe he really will placate
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the radical environmentalist faction of his own party and commit to building pipelines.
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But I am going to give it two straight. I'm a little more skeptical, a little bit more pessimistic.
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And I'm going to tell you why. Let me just walk you through first what happened. So here is what
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Mark Carney wrote on X. He posted this after his meeting. He writes, the premiers and I want to
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make Canada a global energy superpower and build the strongest economy in the G7. Wow. So do I.
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That's almost sounds like a conservative. He says, we're working together to break down trade
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barriers across the country and get big nation building projects off the ground. I just have
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to point this out. Check out this picture that he posted. And if we just zoom in on Premier Danielle
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Smith, look at her face. She just doesn't look happy in this picture. What an odd choice for a photo to
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post on social media. Next, here is Mark Carney telling reporters that the energy projects will be
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selected using specific criteria to meet Canada's highest environmental standards. Let's play that
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clip. I think there's a shared understanding based on our discussion of the main criteria for
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consideration. I've listed them there in the communique. I'm not going to repeat them given
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interest of time. What's being clear is what's being put in place or what is being proposed will be
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proposed in legislation is the ability of the federal government to devote the right resources
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to these projects to make quick decisions about those projects that way respect our environmental
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responsibilities, other responsibilities, work with the provinces directly to move forward and to get
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the country building. Now, specifically, he also said that Canada is open to building pipelines. This is
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the big question, the big point of contention. Will there be new pipelines built under the Mark Carney
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Liberal government? He said he's open to it, but it has to be specifically for what he calls
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decarbonized oil. Let's play that clip. Specifically within energy, opportunities, yes, for an oil pipeline,
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oil pipeline to get to tidewater. Now, within the broader context of national interest, the interest is
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in, as mentioned in the press release, decarbonized barrels. So working alongside forms of decarbonization
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for those barrels. That is absolutely in our interest. Decarbonized. Okay, we're going to break that down a
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little bit. So at the end of the day, despite all the excitement, all of the positive praise from
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legacy media and some premiers, there was no specific projects that were identified. We're not leaving
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this meeting with anything concrete planned. There's no deal signed. There's nothing listed. Carney
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emphasized that any project has to meet the highest environmental standards. So does that mean that he's
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just going to say that he would, in theory, be okay with an oil pipeline, but then it will be destined to
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get rejected once the environmental standards get applied. I mean, that's what Bill C-69, after all,
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is all about. Next, Carney talked about decarbonized oil. So by this, he's meaning carbon catcher,
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which is a hugely expensive project that basically the private sector doesn't see the willing, they're
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not willing to invest in it because it's so expensive. It doesn't really help with their bottom
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line. And there's no guarantee at the end of the day that the government will be in agreement with
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future oil and gas development. So it's not really worth the investment. That's why the governments
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have to get involved in the first place, because there isn't really a business case for this stuff.
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And finally, Mark Carney says that, just like Justin Trudeau said, the projects need to have
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First Nations involvement and essentially approval. So we're sort of talking about a veto power,
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right? The idea that you could have 95 percent of First Nations agreeing with a project, but then you can
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always find some unelected hereditary chiefs to block the project. That's exactly what happened with the
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coastal gas leak pipeline in British Columbia. So forgive my skepticism. But this all sounds a lot
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like Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. It sounds a lot like the liberal government that we've had
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over the past 10 years. And at the end of the day, why would people like Gerald Butts, Kathleen
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McKenna, and Stéphane Guilbault, why would they backmark Carney if they believed that he was just going
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to turn on them and build the pipeline? I kind of think that there's more going on behind the scenes.
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So we're going to have to wait and see. Maybe we should be optimistic. Maybe we should be happy
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that Carney is at least at the table and having these discussions with people like Premier Daniel
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Smith. And she seems like she's somewhat happy by the meeting. But again, I'm still a little bit
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skeptical. Okay, I want to bring on our guest to get his comments and thoughts on all of this. I'm
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very pleased today to be meeting with one of the biggest figures in politics in Alberta. I'm talking
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about Dr. Ted Morton. He was a key figure at the Calgary School, the University of Calgary,
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where he taught for decades. He co-authored the 2001 Firewall Letter, pushing for Alberta's
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provincial autonomy. Of course, he was a progressive conservative MLA in that province from 2004 to
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2012. And he's an author of a very important book that was published in 2020 called The Moment
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of Truth, How to Think About Alberta's Future, that was published alongside economist Jack Mintz and
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Professor Tom Flanagan. So, Dr. Morton, thank you so much for joining us.
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So, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the first minister's meeting and all of the news that
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Well, I listened to your introductory remarks and I guess I share your skepticism. I think we can be
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confident that Mark Carney is a lot more intelligent than Justin Trudeau. But does that make him
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better or more dangerous? And he still seems to be dancing around both sides. Decarbonized oil,
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what's that going to mean? But I think to be fair, both to him and to Premiers Smith and Moe,
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Saskatchewan and Alberta Premiers, I think we're kind of in a honeymoon period or a trial marriage,
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whatever you want to call it. And they're hoping that I think Carney, the banker, the economist will
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prevail over Carney, the politician. And I think one of the quotations I read from Daniel Smith,
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Premier Smith of Alberta, was that any of these big infrastructure corridors that you want to build,
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whether it's east, west or north, you're looking at billions and billions of dollars.
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How are you going to pay for that? The only way you're going to pay for it is to start getting
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more Western Canadian oil and gas to global markets or global prices at economically competitive rates.
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So I think we're in a, as I said, a trial marriage or a honeymoon that lasts maybe a couple months,
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maybe. But clearly, Moe and Smith, Alberta and Saskatchewan, are going to see the talk turned into action.
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Well, and the fact that they're saying that behind the scenes or around the table,
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he's much better than Justin Trudeau. I mean, I interviewed Premier Smith back when Mark Carney was
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just running for liberal leader. And she worried that because of his book values and his ideology
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that he professed, that he was going to be worse than Justin Trudeau. So I want to go back to some
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of Smith's words right here in Calgary. Harold Ron Bell writes that Smith vows to work with Carney
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and says he's way better than Justin Trudeau. The premier says Carney is a dramatic improvement over
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Trudeau since he recognizes the value of Alberta oil and wants to get it to market and get it to Asia.
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On X, she posted that she was encouraged by the discussions that she had.
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And I want to play a few clips. So first, here she is yesterday speaking to reporters,
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saying that specifically there are nine terrible laws and terrible policies that are hurting
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investment and that this is what she wants to see addressed. Let's play this quick clip.
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I think that there seems to be an appetite to talk about getting pipelines built so that we can get
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oil and gas to market. The problem is, unless we address the nine terrible policies that have
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that have damaged investor confidence, we're not going to get the proponents coming forward with
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major investment. So she's laid out these nine terrible laws, terrible policies. She put it in a
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letter that she gave to him before the meeting. And yet, I don't think that any of these were really
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addressed. So yes, Mark Kearney is showing up at the table. Yes, he's giving lip service to the idea
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of building nation building projects and getting Canada's economy off the ground. But the specific,
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the devil's in the details. And I don't think that he's addressed the details at all. What do you
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think of that? I would tend to agree. I saw nothing in the news coverage specifically referring
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to the reversal or removal or amending of any of those nine policies. As I mentioned to you just
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before we came on, of those nine policies, I think four or five have been enacted just in the four or five
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past years. So the book that you referenced, Moment of Truth, that Jack Mance and Tom Flanagan and I did
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five years ago, we thought we make the case then that it's time for the Western premiers to start
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playing offense rather than defense because things were getting worse. And of the nine policies that
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Smith and Mo have identified as necessary to move forward, almost half of those are since we wrote
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that book five years ago. So things have been getting worse, not better. What's Kearney going to do?
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Well, it's going to be an interesting six months. Well, I think you might have to write an updated
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chapter on that book because I did interview you right after that book came out. And it was almost
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more abstract back then. And now I'm just, I'm looking at the title again, right? So how to think
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about Alberta's future. And you have a sort of like a weather vane or one of those signs pointing
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different directions. And the options are go it alone, 51st state, let them freeze, roll over,
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pop on a bust, or build a firewall, which seems sort of like you had a crystal ball and you were looking
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into the future at what the conversation might look like in 2025. Well, that was the reality in 2020,
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but then COVID hit and it pushed everything else off, off the, if you like, the political map,
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the public awareness for what, a year and a half, at least. And so, but we're not just back to where
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we were in many respects, the oil and gas producing provinces, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and BC to what it's
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considered are worse off today than we were five years ago. Certainly interesting. Okay. Well, I do think
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that the elephant in the room in all of these discussions with the first minister's meeting
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yesterday really comes down to the future of Alberta and Alberta independence. So I do want to
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ask you a few questions about this, Dr. Morton, but for folks on YouTube, we're going to cut the video
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off here. And if you want to watch the rest of the conversation, it's going to be good. Head on over
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