The WEF is out-of-touch with those affected by its policies
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Summary
In this episode, Andrew Lawton talks to Peter Baker of the World Business Council for Sustainable Development (WBCDSD), a global organization of business leaders that tries to move forward towards sustainable goals. They discuss the challenges facing the oil and gas sector and the challenges faced by governments, and how they can work together to address them.
Transcript
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Andrew Lawton coming to you from Davos, Switzerland, where the World Economic Forum's
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2022 annual meeting is taking place. One of the biggest criticisms leveled towards the World
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Economic Forum and to a lot of the policies that are discussed here is how out of touch they are
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with not just the struggles of the people around the world, the ones who are governed and affected
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by these policies, but also how different regionally places in the world are from the
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interests that are being represented here. One notable example of this is energy. It's all easy
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to talk about the big picture pie-in-the-sky ideas of moving towards clean and green energy,
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which by the way never seems to include nuclear for some reason, but that's a topic for another
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video. But again, when they talk about the infrastructure required for solar, for wind,
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a lot of the times they're talking about wanting to do away entirely with fossil fuels, with
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traditional energy like oil and gas, the backbone of the Canadian economy. I spoke about this a little
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bit with Peter Baker, who works with a global organization of business leaders that tries to
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move forward towards sustainable goals. So what is it that you're doing here at the World Economic
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Forum? So we're the World Business Council for Sustainable Development. We're talking to all the
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business leaders about how we can get action to scale up because we need real system transformation
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and this is the place to talk about that. I'm from Canada where the oil and gas sector is critical
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to the economy and when a lot of people in that industry hear about sustainable development,
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they hear about basically programs that are going to outlaw their industry. So what is the place for
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oil and gas in your ideal future for business? Well, it's clear that over the long run we need to
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move away from fossil fuels, but we need transition pathways out of it. The world has a lot of need for
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energy and we'll have that for the coming periods, but we need to begin to invest in alternatives.
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We need to really then work with the oil and gas companies to say what are those alternatives
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and can we create investable solutions together with them? So that's really the conversations
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we're having here. Do you think the market is capable of dealing with these things or do you
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think it ultimately comes from governments that have to push the market into these things?
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I think capital markets are actually in the lead at the moment. So more and more investors are
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beginning to map what are climate risks, how do certain assets compare to those climate risks,
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begin to price it in. And so over time what you'll see is companies that really
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are investing in the transitions will attract the lower cost of capital and that's going to
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accelerate the transition. And then yes, sure, the laggards, they will need to be regulated
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towards those type of solutions. But I think the combination of corporate innovation
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with capital market pricing will be the accelerator of all this.
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As he says, they're very keenly aware that business can take a leading role in this,
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but just what are the implications of that going to be? We here in Canada, our own government,
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talk about the so-called just transition away from oil and gas without anything concrete about
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how they're going to ensure that the people affected by that transition have jobs in the
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future. Industry Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne said it's all just a simple matter
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of re-skilling and up-skilling. What are you doing to help the workers who are being left behind?
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Re-skilling, up-skilling. I mean, you're quite right. The interaction between machine and human
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is prevalent in every industry. Actually, it's interesting. If you go even in a small and medium-sized
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businesses, which would be tools, for example, or in aluminum, or even in steel, you start saying
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the, if you've seen some of these machines, you need a lot of skills today to operate that. I mean,
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this is not the job of your father. This is easier said than done. And there was an interesting
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dilemma that came up when one discussion, one of the many here at the World Economic Forum focused
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on climate, did a survey which didn't just go to the people in the room, but went to anyone who was
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watching it online, who wanted to vote, and it was what their top priority should be. And if you look
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at the results, everyone, I think, thought that it was going to be transitioning away that was going
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to be the top priority. But people actually talked about energy independence, sustainability, and also
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things like reducing energy costs. They were all neck and neck as far as which ones were, in fact,
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the top priority, which was a bit surprising to the people in the room. I caught up later with India's
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Minister of Natural Gas and Petroleum, and he admitted that the discussions are very different
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elsewhere in the world than the ones that are taking place here in Davos. You were on a panel
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about oil and gas and energy this morning. Do you think phasing out of fossil fuels is actually a
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realistic goal? Look, I said what I had to, but you know, if you were to do that survey in different
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parts of the world, if you were to do it, for instance, in South Asia or Africa or in Latin America,
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you'd get results that might be a little different from the kind of results you're getting here.
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The minister didn't go into too much detail before he was hurried away to his next meeting,
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but I appreciated his candor that, yes, the conversations they're having about energy in
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the developing world where they need fossil fuels, they need oil and gas, they need traditional energy,
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those discussions are very different than the ones taking place here at Davos.
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For True North from the World Economic Forum, I'm Andrew Lawton.