00:01:48.300Tell me what you saw and what you remember from that incident where you captured the
00:01:52.940image of the officer basically reading the riot act to these protesters who'd been
00:01:57.260used to doing pretty much whatever they want.
00:02:01.420So for those who aren't familiar, Bathurst and Shepherd is an intersection in Toronto
00:02:07.020that has been the site of weekly protests and counter-protests for about two and a half years.
00:02:12.620It started with Save the Hostage demonstrations shortly after October 7, and about a year into that, you had Palestinian protesters show up across the street, and there have been various kerfuffles that have ensued since then.
00:02:30.280This past weekend, my videographer captured the inspector giving a directive to protesters that they are no longer allowed to march down residential areas.
00:02:43.580This comes after weeks of protesters dressing up in sort of Hamas fighter costumes and marching down residential areas, confronting people while they're on their driveways.
00:02:59.580And in particular, last week, because that tactic did sort of fade out, but last week we saw signs that were extremely and blatantly anti-Semitic in nature.
00:03:13.160So I think that's what triggered police to finally sort of put their foot down and say, you can't do this anymore.
00:03:19.580If you continue, we're going to warn you and tell you to stop and then you might be arrested.
00:03:23.480And I understand that there were also some synagogues that were shot up, correct?
00:03:34.400You know, anyone who's been paying attention to the news in Toronto over the past several weeks will have seen synagogues being shot at businesses, you know, private businesses, a gym, a bakery.
00:03:48.960And there's no direct link that has been made public or that I'm aware of between protesters and these more violent incidents, but I think that the general atmosphere of tension and fear finally reached a tipping point where police are now in the position of really having to enforce some basic rules of decency in that neighbourhood.
00:04:18.960The police have been criticized heavily by some residents,
00:04:22.740even some politicians and local politicians.
00:04:26.160I mean, that incident where one of them got coffee
00:04:33.360A lot of people thought that that was inappropriate for police to do.
00:04:37.960And it seemed that they were on the side of the protesters.
00:04:41.640And this has been going on for months.
00:04:45.280And so the fact that it was seemingly changed like overnight
00:04:48.700has some people wondering whether there's been a change in attitudes from on high from you know
00:04:54.220the politicians from the police chief these people maybe have gotten the message that this has gone
00:05:01.180on for too long what do you think I think that there has long been perhaps a discrepancy between
00:05:09.220frontline officers and what they would like to do as far as enforce the law and the orders they
00:05:15.440receive from higher up. So perhaps what we are now observing is a bridging of that. And, you know, it
00:05:24.160yes, this directive could have come a long time ago. So I sympathize with the residents who are
00:05:33.840frustrated about it. Speaking as a lawyer who has an interest in civil liberties more broadly beyond
00:05:42.460this specific conflict. It's not a great precedent to set, but I do think that something had to be
00:05:50.780done in order to address legitimate community concerns. Well, maybe you could talk a little
00:05:59.440bit about the other side, the protesters. Some of the protesters, as I understand it, were not happy,
00:06:04.060not pleased by this. They say it's a violation of their rights. Did you get a chance to chat
00:06:09.540with some of them? So the protesters who feel that way, you know, in their mind, they are
00:06:17.380there to bring awareness to an issue as Canadian citizens or residents have the right to do that
00:06:27.380and feel curtailed upon now that there is a limitation that has presented itself.
00:06:35.540You know, the responding question is, well, why here? Why this intersection? And you might hear them say, well, it's because there were these demonstrations and we know that there's a high concentration of people in this area who may feel differently than us.
00:06:54.760we want to bring our message to them. But the fact is that the actual demonstration that's been
00:07:02.180going on isn't one that's very conducive to dialogue or reasoned discussion or anything
00:07:09.500productive. So yes, the protesters I think do feel aggrieved and that this is an injustice that has
00:07:18.420been brought upon them. Unfortunately for them, there have been too many incidents where
00:07:27.300the optics are not just problematic, but deeply disturbing, and I think have lodged themselves
00:07:34.260in people's brains, like some of these images that have come out of this intersection.
00:07:39.180Yeah, unfortunately, when you've been doing it as long as they have, the public's eyes
00:07:45.280being to glaze over because it's just another protest and they don't pay attention and i guess
00:07:50.480from the perspective of the protesters they have to up the ante as it were in order to get the
00:07:55.360attention of the public as to their cause to what degree do you think that has some validity i i
00:08:03.120think that that's an excellent point um and i think that that does explain um some of the escalation
00:08:08.880that we saw whether it was a matter of boredom or trying to sort of create a new splash that
00:08:16.160ultimately led protesters to go down residential streets because that wasn't part of what was
00:08:21.760happening when there was a competing demonstration who they could yell across the street at once you
00:08:27.280no longer had that they looked for other outlets or at least that's what it seemed to me and you
00:08:34.160know they're the protesters themselves would say or reiterate there's no connection between us
00:08:40.560and any of these shootings um you know we're being unfairly targeted or penalized but they are also
00:08:48.400the only group that really is using this tactic and so while the rule may feel specific to them
00:08:56.000and it is specific to them it's because no one else has been doing this and that's what the
00:09:03.200officer told them right there was also the shooting at the u.s embassy which may be something entirely
00:09:09.920different but then again who knows i mean um you've had a chance maybe to to find out a little
00:09:17.680bit about these protesters having been in close contact with them i mean do you know who these
00:09:22.320people are where they're from and what about the people who are behind them i mean i can't help but
00:09:28.480wonder that they must be getting some money somewhere they for them to spend time protesting
00:09:33.600rather than being at work you know sure yeah i'll start there um so like with any protest movement
00:09:43.680you get a mixed bag um so who shows up at bathurst and shepherd um you have actual palestinians you
00:09:51.680have other Arabs. You have, I would say, a high percentage of Muslims or people who ascribe to
00:10:02.080Islam. What is the driving or connecting force? Some of them have appeared at other protest
00:10:11.920demonstrations um they do appear to be connected um to a larger network but where does this support
00:10:22.560like the material support actually come from i suspect some of it is locally crowdfunded
00:10:29.040um you know it's not the purchase of flags and signs i think we've had a little bit of a freeze
00:10:35.680there um but it is a big question mark actually um apart from the professed concern about what's
00:10:45.360happening in palestine um which i think all of them would say is their driving force um is there
00:10:52.000something cuniery on top of that uh i don't know um i can say that their actual demonstration
00:11:00.000um you know to what degree does that influence in a positive way anything they are actually
00:11:07.440trying to accomplish or stating is their intent and that's not clear to me either
00:11:13.200how do people follow your terrific work online
00:11:18.080thank you um i post primarily on social media so twitter or x instagram facebook
00:11:25.840If you look up my name, Karima Saad, C-A-R-Y-M-A, or just Google Saad Lawyer Toronto, you can also find me at protestmania.com.
00:11:36.460Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Karima. We appreciate it.