Pro-Palestinian protesters in a Jewish neighbourhood in Toronto are no longer allowed to march in residential areas. This comes after weeks of clashes with police in the area of Bathurst and Shepherds St. Sheffield. Our guest today is lawyer and journalist Karima Saad, who broke the story.
00:01:48.300Tell me what you saw and what you remember from that incident where you captured the
00:01:52.940image of the officer basically reading the riot act to these protesters who'd been
00:01:57.260used to doing pretty much whatever they want.
00:02:01.420So for those who aren't familiar, Bathurst and Shepherd is an intersection in Toronto
00:02:07.020that has been the site of weekly protests and counter-protests for about two and a half years.
00:02:12.620It started with Save the Hostage demonstrations shortly after October 7, and about a year into that, you had Palestinian protesters show up across the street, and there have been various kerfuffles that have ensued since then.
00:02:30.280This past weekend, my videographer captured the inspector giving a directive to protesters that they are no longer allowed to march down residential areas.
00:02:43.580This comes after weeks of protesters dressing up in sort of Hamas fighter costumes and marching down residential areas, confronting people while they're on their driveways.
00:02:59.580And in particular, last week, because that tactic did sort of fade out, but last week we saw signs that were extremely and blatantly anti-Semitic in nature.
00:03:13.160So I think that's what triggered police to finally sort of put their foot down and say, you can't do this anymore.
00:03:19.580If you continue, we're going to warn you and tell you to stop and then you might be arrested.
00:03:23.480And I understand that there were also some synagogues that were shot up, correct?
00:03:34.400You know, anyone who's been paying attention to the news in Toronto over the past several weeks will have seen synagogues being shot at businesses, you know, private businesses, a gym, a bakery.
00:03:48.960And there's no direct link that has been made public or that I'm aware of between protesters and these more violent incidents, but I think that the general atmosphere of tension and fear finally reached a tipping point where police are now in the position of really having to enforce some basic rules of decency in that neighbourhood.
00:04:18.960The police have been criticized heavily by some residents,
00:04:22.740even some politicians and local politicians.
00:04:26.160I mean, that incident where one of them got coffee
00:04:33.360A lot of people thought that that was inappropriate for police to do.
00:04:37.960And it seemed that they were on the side of the protesters.
00:04:41.640And this has been going on for months.
00:04:45.280And so the fact that it was seemingly changed like overnight
00:04:48.700has some people wondering whether there's been a change in attitudes from on high from you know
00:04:54.220the politicians from the police chief these people maybe have gotten the message that this has gone
00:05:01.180on for too long what do you think I think that there has long been perhaps a discrepancy between
00:05:09.220frontline officers and what they would like to do as far as enforce the law and the orders they
00:05:15.440receive from higher up. So perhaps what we are now observing is a bridging of that. And, you know, it
00:05:24.160yes, this directive could have come a long time ago. So I sympathize with the residents who are
00:05:33.840frustrated about it. Speaking as a lawyer who has an interest in civil liberties more broadly beyond
00:05:42.460this specific conflict. It's not a great precedent to set, but I do think that something had to be
00:05:50.780done in order to address legitimate community concerns. Well, maybe you could talk a little
00:05:59.440bit about the other side, the protesters. Some of the protesters, as I understand it, were not happy,
00:06:04.060not pleased by this. They say it's a violation of their rights. Did you get a chance to chat
00:06:09.540with some of them? So the protesters who feel that way, you know, in their mind, they are
00:06:17.380there to bring awareness to an issue as Canadian citizens or residents have the right to do that
00:06:27.380and feel curtailed upon now that there is a limitation that has presented itself.
00:06:35.540You know, the responding question is, well, why here? Why this intersection? And you might hear them say, well, it's because there were these demonstrations and we know that there's a high concentration of people in this area who may feel differently than us.
00:06:54.760we want to bring our message to them. But the fact is that the actual demonstration that's been
00:07:02.180going on isn't one that's very conducive to dialogue or reasoned discussion or anything
00:07:09.500productive. So yes, the protesters I think do feel aggrieved and that this is an injustice that has
00:07:18.420been brought upon them. Unfortunately for them, there have been too many incidents where
00:07:27.300the optics are not just problematic, but deeply disturbing, and I think have lodged themselves
00:07:34.260in people's brains, like some of these images that have come out of this intersection.
00:07:39.180Yeah, unfortunately, when you've been doing it as long as they have, the public's eyes
00:07:45.280being to glaze over because it's just another protest and they don't pay attention and i guess
00:07:50.480from the perspective of the protesters they have to up the ante as it were in order to get the
00:07:55.360attention of the public as to their cause to what degree do you think that has some validity i i
00:08:03.120think that that's an excellent point um and i think that that does explain um some of the escalation
00:08:08.880that we saw whether it was a matter of boredom or trying to sort of create a new splash that
00:08:16.160ultimately led protesters to go down residential streets because that wasn't part of what was
00:08:21.760happening when there was a competing demonstration who they could yell across the street at once you
00:08:27.280no longer had that they looked for other outlets or at least that's what it seemed to me and you
00:08:34.160know they're the protesters themselves would say or reiterate there's no connection between us
00:08:40.560and any of these shootings um you know we're being unfairly targeted or penalized but they are also
00:08:48.400the only group that really is using this tactic and so while the rule may feel specific to them
00:08:56.000and it is specific to them it's because no one else has been doing this and that's what the
00:09:03.200officer told them right there was also the shooting at the u.s embassy which may be something entirely
00:09:09.920different but then again who knows i mean um you've had a chance maybe to to find out a little
00:09:17.680bit about these protesters having been in close contact with them i mean do you know who these
00:09:22.320people are where they're from and what about the people who are behind them i mean i can't help but
00:09:28.480wonder that they must be getting some money somewhere they for them to spend time protesting
00:09:33.600rather than being at work you know sure yeah i'll start there um so like with any protest movement
00:09:43.680you get a mixed bag um so who shows up at bathurst and shepherd um you have actual palestinians you
00:09:51.680have other Arabs. You have, I would say, a high percentage of Muslims or people who ascribe to
00:10:02.080Islam. What is the driving or connecting force? Some of them have appeared at other protest
00:10:11.920demonstrations um they do appear to be connected um to a larger network but where does this support
00:10:22.560like the material support actually come from i suspect some of it is locally crowdfunded
00:10:29.040um you know it's not the purchase of flags and signs i think we've had a little bit of a freeze
00:10:35.680there um but it is a big question mark actually um apart from the professed concern about what's
00:10:45.360happening in palestine um which i think all of them would say is their driving force um is there
00:10:52.000something cuniery on top of that uh i don't know um i can say that their actual demonstration
00:11:00.000um you know to what degree does that influence in a positive way anything they are actually
00:11:07.440trying to accomplish or stating is their intent and that's not clear to me either
00:11:13.200how do people follow your terrific work online
00:11:18.080thank you um i post primarily on social media so twitter or x instagram facebook
00:11:25.840If you look up my name, Karima Saad, C-A-R-Y-M-A, or just Google Saad Lawyer Toronto, you can also find me at protestmania.com.
00:11:36.460Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Karima. We appreciate it.