Juno News - Trans regret and the growing wave of detransitioner lawsuits

00:00:00.000 Certainly a lot has been said about gender transition, but most of the time I find it's

00:00:06.220 people arguing over whether or not it should be practiced. And I think we never really hear from

00:00:12.660 the people who went through it in the first place, those individuals who regretted it and later

00:00:17.340 detransitioned. Now detransitioners, most of them young women, are often ignored and dismissed by

00:00:24.460 the very people and institutions that set out to help them in the first place. It's not clear

00:00:28.780 whether or not there are any off ramps for these individuals, or if much thought has been given to

00:00:33.840 the topic by those who claim transitioning is life saving. But that's starting to change. A growing

00:00:40.660 movement of clinicians, of lawyers and of former patients are beginning to push back. They're

00:00:47.240 seeking accountability and justice for those harmed by a system that treated medical safeguarding for

00:00:54.720 political slogan. Today on the show, I'm joined by Michelle Mackness, a former therapist turned

00:00:59.820 advocate, and Lynn Chadwick, founder of Themis Resource Fund. Together, they're fighting to give

00:01:06.040 detransitioners a voice in the clinic and in the courts. I'm Melanie Bennett. This is Disrupted.

00:01:13.300 We are going to talk about detransition today. We don't talk enough about gender ideology these days,

00:01:29.960 but we certainly don't talk about detransitioners enough at all. And so I have with me Michelle

00:01:36.520 Magnus and Lynn Chadwick. Now, I'll start with you, Lynn, you are the founder of Themis Resource Fund,

00:01:44.520 and I am dying for you to explain to me what that is. Yeah, so Themis Resource Fund was founded to

00:01:51.600 assist detransitioners to obtain and fund litigation so that they can be heard in court and receive justice. 0.99

00:02:02.000 But that's in America. Is there Themis in Canada as well?

00:02:10.000 There is not. And we certainly hope that we will be able to assist people in Canada as well at some

00:02:17.340 point. I think this is relevant all over the world, however, because court cases that happen in America

00:02:25.840 will affect things that happen in other countries. And so we have to start somewhere and we have to do

00:02:33.680 something that is possible.

00:02:35.840 And okay, we'll get we'll get to those court cases in a minute, but I want to move to Michelle. I didn't 0.97

00:02:43.840 even thank both of you for being here, but thank you. Thank you for being here. But maybe you could tell us a

00:02:49.520 little bit about therapy when it comes to gender affirming care and trans in Canada, because you're 0.84

00:02:56.000 a therapist and you you deal with some of this here in Canada, I might add. Hi, Melanie. Yeah, thanks.

00:03:02.640 Gender for me, gender care in Canada is exclusively basically gender affirming care. So that means

00:03:10.560 a declaration of a trans identity is accepted at face value and no further investigation is warranted.

00:03:17.840 There is direction to perhaps look into comorbidities, but no actual valid psychometric tools are

00:03:31.120 required. And there is no what is termed gatekeeping, but what we could also term as medical

00:03:39.120 safeguarding. There's no medical safeguarding in place. Do we know what the numbers are for

00:03:45.120 detransitioners in Canada? Is that something that's tracked? Because we've seen a really big 1.00

00:03:49.360 increase in especially young people transitioning at younger and younger ages. And obviously, these

00:03:55.760 kids are getting older now. And so we don't have any idea of what that might look like.

00:04:02.240 Yeah, I'd like to jump in on that one. So we don't have numbers. And but what we do know is that

00:04:10.720 many thousands of young people have quickly transitioned medically without a lot of therapy,

00:04:19.200 without a lot of even time in between their announcing that they're trans and going on hormones. 0.60

00:04:27.440 Sometimes it's as quick as 45 minutes in like a Planned Parenthood or a doctor. Sometimes it's on

00:04:36.720 phone or over Zoom. There are even apps you can get on your phone and you can get hormones and surgery

00:04:42.880 letters on an app. These people have never even seen you. And so since we're transitioning young

00:04:50.720 people by the thousands, we have every reason to believe that there will be thousands of people

00:05:00.960 getting back off of this ride at the end of it. And there are currently very few off ramps.

00:05:08.480 And I think you're talking about me, we're going to need help for these people.

00:05:14.400 I just want to add to that. I seem to remember a talk given at the Genspec Denver conference

00:05:20.800 that they predict the numbers to be somewhere based on data from the military. Apparently,

00:05:26.960 they expect the numbers to be around 30%. Currently, if you are in the gender wars, for instance,

00:05:36.640 gender affirming care proponents suggest that it's 1%. But again, we don't track it. Many

00:05:43.440 de-transitioners do not return to the clinics where they were transitioned. I think the number is somewhere

00:05:49.120 around 70% say they did not inform their former providers that they were de-transitioning.

00:05:56.320 And if you just want to take a look at what some of the agencies in Canada who promote transition are

00:06:02.160 doing for de-transitioners, it's pretty close to nothing. So if you go to a gal, Canada, for instance, 0.99

00:06:10.960 and look up the words desistance, de-transition or regret, you get zero for desistance, zero for

00:06:19.440 de-trans and five instances of regret. One is as a straw man argument around people say most people

00:06:27.920 regret transition. I don't know that that's that's not an argument I'm familiar with. I'm sure someone's

00:06:34.000 made it. And the other four have nothing to do when it's like from a letter from 1994 from a member of

00:06:40.400 parliament around sexual orientation. So that must have been when we were go up fighting for marriage

00:06:46.000 equality in Canada. None of them, though, have to do with transition regret in a meaningful way.

00:06:54.560 It's it's my understanding that position in Canada would be that supporting de-transition might

00:07:01.920 equate to conversion therapy. So I guess it wouldn't be surprising that organizations like

00:07:07.120 EGAL or possibly even the therapeutic industry might be cautious providing supportive services for

00:07:18.240 young people who de-transition. I would be horrifying to know if you have a young person coming to a 1.00

00:07:25.040 therapist saying I'd like to de-transition what what they might what they might do in that instance.

00:07:30.320 But maybe what we could do is move to the litigation. So law, you know, going to the courts and having

00:07:38.240 courts decide can be useful. So I'd be curious to know, Lynn, what kind of cases are you supporting?

00:07:46.560 Well, so far, Themis has financially backed five cases in the US. They're all different. They're all people who

00:07:54.400 regret their transition and were harmed by affirmative care, such as hormones and surgeries. And when I say

00:08:04.800 harmed, I mean deeply harmed. And another reason that people are suing, they're suing not only for medical

00:08:17.520 malpractice, but also for fraud. And also for discrimination. Because one thing that people

00:08:28.240 don't really stop and think about is that a lot of these young people are gay or lesbian. And they're

00:08:36.320 being led to believe that if they transition, they'll be straight. They may not be gay anymore. 0.60

00:08:41.920 And so that is a type of discrimination against homosexual people. So that is actionable in court as well.

00:08:55.520 But, you know, it's

00:09:00.960 where people are suing for for those those basically those three things fraud, medical malpractice and

00:09:09.280 discrimination. So when you speak of fraud, those cases, is that in reference to informed consent,

00:09:16.560 essentially being sold a faulty bill of goods? Right, because they're being told that if they

00:09:21.840 have these procedures, that all of their mental health issues will go away. And that's not true.

00:09:28.320 Also, we have found instances of fraud. For example, Prisha Mosley is one of the gay transitioners 1.00

00:09:36.960 that is currently suing. And at a recent Federal Trade Commission hearing, we were shown notes from her

00:09:48.160 therapist. And on the same day, her therapist wrote a note outlining all of Prisha's significant

00:09:55.280 mental health comorbidities, such as major depression, borderline personality disorder,

00:10:02.400 and there were several more. On the same day, the same therapist wrote a surgery approval letter

00:10:08.640 stating that Prisha had no significant comorbidities. So one of those things is a lie. 0.99

00:10:16.480 Yeah, well, what happens to these individuals when their comorbidities aren't being addressed?

00:10:21.120 Because some of those sound pretty severe that actually need some kind of guidance to pull it like

00:10:25.680 you're not just going to suddenly stop being borderline. If you have borderline personality

00:10:31.520 disorder, for example, you're not just going to suddenly stop if you take a different course of action.

00:10:36.880 Right. But these people believe that your only real problem is that you're trans. And once we

00:10:45.200 solve that, all these comorbidities will magically go away because they're all a result of minority 1.00

00:10:49.760 stress and discrimination that you've experienced because you're trans and no one is supporting you.

00:10:56.480 Would that be like saying that they don't get any help?

00:10:59.760 Yeah. So would that be like saying they're treating the they believe they would believe

00:11:04.240 that they're treating the source of the problem rather than the symptoms of the problem. And if you

00:11:07.840 treat the source of the problem, which is the the state of being a transgender individual, 0.94

00:11:13.440 then all of the other problems would just go, they would go.

00:11:16.240 Right. So it's so easy to hand somebody a prescription and a surgery letter and now

00:11:22.240 you've solved their problems, right? Now you don't have to do any actual therapy.

00:11:26.880 Yeah. Yeah. So, Michelle, in Canada, do we do we have cases of detransitioners going to court?

00:11:35.200 We do. I'm aware of two cases that are currently ongoing. One is the first one that I'm aware of,

00:11:44.880 and I believe it was the first one in Canada is Michelle's that King yes case in Ontario, which

00:11:52.160 she launched in 2023. She is a detransitioned woman with an extensive history of mental health conditions. 1.00

00:12:05.920 And she had minimal assessments done or clinical interviews. I'm not, you know, I'm not privy to all

00:12:13.760 the details. And then was put on hormones. A year later, she had a double mastectomy. 1.00

00:12:21.280 And then nine years later, she had a full hysterectomy. And surprisingly, her mental health

00:12:29.760 conditions did not improve with these risky and ultimately painful surgeries for her.

00:12:37.760 Since she's detransitioned and has gone through proper ethical, comprehensive assessments with a 0.54

00:12:43.760 psychologist trained to do clinical assessments and differential diagnoses. She's been diagnosed with

00:12:51.840 ADHD, autism spectrum disorder, traits of post-traumatic stress disorder, borderline personality

00:12:58.480 disorder and clinical depression. None of those were being addressed through surgeries and hormones.

00:13:04.320 And the second case in Canada. Also, Michelle has a fundraising site that we could maybe put into the show notes later.

00:13:15.840 The second case in Canada was launched in 2025 by Lois Cardinal. Lois is a trans woman living in Alberta.

00:13:26.080 She's, as she, how does she describe herself? A first nation sterile, post-op sterilized woman. I think I'm getting the order wrong. 0.96

00:13:36.880 But, um, she is not detransitioning. She's a regretter though. And, um, her lawsuit is around, um, again, just being rushed into

00:13:46.960 treatment. The clinical assessment process was rushed or ignored, um, in order to secure funding. There's some changes going on with

00:13:55.760 funding at the time, I guess this was quite a while ago. So there were more safeguards in place at the time,

00:14:01.520 but it looks like they were overlooked. So even the ones that did exist were not, um, heated. And she had vaginoplasty in, I think, 2009.

00:14:13.440 She's been in constant discomfort. Just to be clear for the audience, the vaginoplasty would be the reversal.

00:14:19.680 So the Audi becomes a ninny. Yes. Yeah. Um, incredibly high rates of complications and very risky surgery. Um, 0.81

00:14:32.320 Lois for a time was looking to do maid because her life had become so unbearable and she's, um, I believe she was declined. 0.64

00:14:42.320 So she's launched this lawsuit. And, you know, one of the things that I find really, um, telling about this entire movement is

00:14:51.840 one of the things that Lois, um, says was not taken into consideration in addition to her, also her longstanding mental health issues,

00:14:59.120 is the cultural peace. And despite the fact that Canada has now moved to spirit to the beginning of the alphabet soup situation, um,

00:15:08.320 um, they did not take into consideration the cultural context from which she came and how her surgery would

00:15:16.400 affect the way people in her community view her and how that would affect her capacity to pass down 0.97

00:15:23.760 traditions within, um, I believe she's Cree within her Cree community, her first mission.

00:15:29.840 Yeah. So, um, correct me if I'm, there's a,

00:15:33.040 correct me if I'm wrong, but Michelle, you're, you're a therapist and you are engaged in advocacy.

00:15:40.320 And I imagine some of that would be to, um, try to raise the issue issue that of how we're treating,

00:15:47.440 uh, gender and gender transition and gender care in Canada is perhaps not the right approach.

00:15:54.400 How are you finding advocating for that? I mean, are you able to make headway? Are you able to get a message across?

00:16:03.040 Well, I'd like to clarify that I'm a former therapist and former keyword. So

00:16:10.720 former therapist, and I was never able to diagnose, um, you know, that was not, that was outside. I was

00:16:16.240 not, I'm not a registered psychologist. I'm not a psychiatrist. Um, it was

00:16:22.720 it's hard to get the messaging across, um, because we're sort of, there's the whole Brandolini's

00:16:31.840 principle, which, uh, you may or may not be aware of. It's the sort of bullsh** asymmetry

00:16:37.520 principle, which is, it's a lot easier to spew lies and bullsh** than it is to refute it. And I 0.97

00:16:44.400 think in Canada, we're really, uh, we're really fighting that. Um, there's been almost exclusively,

00:16:51.680 as you know, um, mainstream media blackout until around 2020, 2021. Prior to that, there was like

00:17:01.040 zero coverage and the only accurate coverage of mainstream media is probably coming from national

00:17:06.160 posts. I haven't really seen anything out of the CBC, CTV or global that's been remotely objective or

00:17:11.520 accurate. Um, and as a therapist, well, I left my profession, so I no longer offer clinical services.

00:17:19.440 Um, I don't work with people who are struggling with psychiatric or psychological instability.

00:17:25.520 I work with what is called the worried. Well, so individuals who are functioning and maybe want to

00:17:32.720 engage in self-examination, that sort of thing. And that has given me a bit more freedom

00:17:38.400 to do advocacy work. So I'm hoping, I mean, the tide seems to be turning in my view slightly. I think

00:17:47.520 more people are talking about it in Canada and, um, I'm cautiously hopeful maybe. What do you think,

00:17:57.840 Melanie? Because it feels to me, it feels to me that around 2023, it was all over the place. And all of a

00:18:03.920 sudden the, the situation has sort of calmed down a little for other issues immediately. There was

00:18:08.080 October 7 and there's this whole pro Palestine thing that's been happening. So, uh, gender and

00:18:13.120 gender ideology has been less, less, uh, covered, but in America, I believe the situation is a little

00:18:18.080 bit different. There seems to be more, uh, coverage critical of some of the, um, issues within, uh, trans

00:18:25.040 and gender and all this stuff in the USA. And that does filter into Canada. Uh, some, I, I'd be curious to

00:18:31.040 know, Lynn, um, are you finding that your work in America, you're able to get a message across,

00:18:37.440 you're able to communicate with people, uh, some of the issues with, uh, with, with adopting a gender

00:18:43.600 affirming care methodology? Oh, yes, absolutely. So I've been really active in this arena since about

00:18:54.320 2019. And as recently as 2022, uh, the media blackout in the U S was so extreme that you could

00:19:05.600 not get even a letter to the editor printed in any sort of legacy media. You could not get anyone in

00:19:14.400 the legacy, legacy media to even look at the possibility that there might be more than one side

00:19:22.320 to this. And to this day, if we do get anything in the media, it's usually prefaced with, these are

00:19:31.040 very conservative people who have a problem with this, which, you know, calling people conservative 1.00

00:19:38.160 is just the easiest way to say they're stupid. Don't listen to them. When the fact is that a lot of us 1.00

00:19:44.880 are not conservative at all. I happen to be a lesbian. Um, I am advocating for parents constantly.

00:19:52.720 They're coming from every direction. This is a human issue. This is not a left, right issue.

00:19:58.640 This is a humanity issue because we are harming young people by the thousands. And the problem is that

00:20:08.480 some very harmful medical procedures are being touted as a civil rights issue.

00:20:18.000 And it's not only children that are being harmed, but it's also, uh, adults, mostly young adults.

00:20:24.880 And it's my philosophy that everybody deserves evidence-based safe and effective medical care,

00:20:32.720 period. End of story. It should not be influenced by politics. It should not be, it is not a civil

00:20:40.080 rights issue to have your penis cut off. It's not a civil rights issue to tell young lesbians that they 1.00

00:20:48.000 should have their breasts removed so they can be men. It's not a civil rights issue. And there is no 1.00

00:20:53.760 LGBTQ community. There isn't. There's only young confused people being drastically harmed and

00:21:02.400 sterilized by sloppy, bad, poorly evidenced medical procedures. That's what there is.

00:21:09.520 And the day that they have to go to court and explain themselves and they can't just resort to,

00:21:15.520 oh, you horrible right-wing bigot, when they have to actually answer the question,

00:21:19.920 that's when you get the information. Yeah. And the sad, sad part is, is that it's mostly girls. 0.99

00:21:26.000 It's girls and it's boys. Um, and you know, it's mostly girls until your kid is the boy that got

00:21:35.360 caught in it. And I have absolute empathy for both. Um, I think it's easier for people to feel sorry

00:21:41.120 for girls than just for boys. And that's really sad. Um, and the parents of boys are saying,

00:21:47.440 what's going on with their kids. Will anybody listen? And that's a whole different topic.

00:21:52.480 Um, but yeah, I think it's about 75, 70, 75% girls. And most of them are between the ages of 13 and 17,

00:22:04.560 when they suddenly decide that they're men and they never were before. Some of them were just kind of

00:22:10.240 tomboys, but a lot of them are just like regular run of the mill girls. Yeah. So there might be 1.00

00:22:17.600 individuals listening today that maybe they got caught up in something that they're now unsure of,

00:22:22.640 or maybe there are parents who want to help their kids who don't know, uh, what to do. Uh, what can

00:22:29.520 people do, uh, to reach out with Themis or maybe possibly other organizations? I'll, I'll throw it to

00:22:36.080 Lynn first. How, how can people, uh, join or help or support?

00:22:42.800 Yeah, well, we're, we're, uh, friends of GenSpec. And so GenSpec has an enormous amount of resources,

00:22:51.680 both, um, in the general, uh, organization. And then they have, um, organizations affiliated with

00:22:59.280 them. And we are one of those organizations. So, um, the one organization that's affiliated

00:23:06.000 is called Beyond Trans. Beyond Trans has therapy and resources for families who are struggling.

00:23:14.800 We have, we fought, uh, I think about five weekly Zoom meetings for parents who are struggling with

00:23:21.040 their kids that are going through this. The parents are just going out of their heads. They don't know

00:23:24.800 what to do. Um, so the resources are there. And then, um, if anybody wants to help, uh, help us with

00:23:33.200 our work of funding lawsuits, we'd absolutely love it if you would come visit our website. We're at

00:23:39.360 ThemisResourceFund.org. Um, you can learn about and actually read the legal complaints on our website.

00:23:48.000 Um, people can go to our website and find an attorney that wants to take their pays. And if you would

00:23:55.520 like to help support our work, which we absolutely need, you can directly help to fund these lawsuits by

00:24:02.400 supporting us financially. That's great. I really hope that if anybody's listening,

00:24:08.080 please reach out. Genspec's great organization. So is Themis. And, uh, they will certainly be able

00:24:12.080 to put you in touch with other organizations if, if, if they're not the one for you, but I thank you

00:24:17.600 ladies for joining me today. Um, and I hope we touch back again soon. Yeah. Thank you so much,

00:24:25.120 Melanie. Thank you, Melanie. Sadly, not even medicine is immune to ideology,

00:24:31.360 but when it succumbs to it, it's often the vulnerable who suffer first.

00:24:35.840 My guests today advocate for evidence-based care because they believe in safeguarding young people

00:24:41.360 and the right to change your mind. I think that's something that most people can get behind.

00:24:46.560 Now, if you'd like share this episode, subscribe, leave a comment and keep the conversation going.

00:24:52.080 For True North, I'm Melanie Bennett.

Juno News - October 02, 2025

Trans regret and the growing wave of detransitioner lawsuits

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