Juno News - Trucker convoy proves the tide is turning against government overreach

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.680 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.660 Coming up, the convoy is too big to ignore, so now Justin Trudeau and the media are vilifying it,

00:00:18.560 plus former Newfoundland Premier Brian Packford on his charter challenge against the federal government.

00:00:25.900 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:30.000 Hello and welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:00:35.800 This is Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show on Thursday, January 27th,

00:00:40.780 two days away from the great big convoy on its way as I speak to the nation's capital of Ottawa.

00:00:48.040 I'm going to be talking a little bit about the convoy,

00:00:50.060 and also I should tell you I'm going to be going to Ottawa for the convoy,

00:00:55.020 and that'll be a lot of fun. We'll have lots of reports from there on the weekend,

00:00:58.960 but I'll talk about that later on.

00:01:00.920 I do want to talk a little bit about what's coming up on the show today,

00:01:03.720 because later on we'll be speaking to Brian Packford, the former Premier of Newfoundland,

00:01:08.620 a repeat guest.

00:01:09.740 We've had him on the show before, and he had a very significant fan base of people that said,

00:01:15.480 you have to have him back on.

00:01:16.680 So we'll be talking to him about what he is doing to end the unscientific restrictions

00:01:21.760 that we have dominating the federal government's COVID response.

00:01:25.580 That's later on in the show.

00:01:27.140 But first, let's talk about the convoy, because originally,

00:01:30.220 and I think when I was talking about this two days ago,

00:01:32.900 the media was just starting to sort of pay attention,

00:01:36.960 but for the most part, the media was not giving the convoy all that much credit.

00:01:41.780 There was that silly story out in BC when CBC was reporting on a couple of dozen trucks

00:01:47.120 that were protesting road conditions,

00:01:49.180 while there was a much larger convoy that was headed to Ottawa

00:01:52.080 to protest vaccine mandates, among other things.

00:01:55.840 And now media has started covering it,

00:01:57.820 but you can tell that a lot of the political elites are very nervous about this,

00:02:01.780 because instead of ignoring it, it's so big that they can't do it,

00:02:05.040 they're just vilifying it now.

00:02:07.560 So the rhetoric has changed dramatically,

00:02:09.760 and all of the discussion about it is now,

00:02:12.420 oh, this is heading to be some January 6th event.

00:02:15.140 This is going to be some attempted coup on parliament buildings.

00:02:17.980 People trying to attribute violent motives to those in the convoy

00:02:22.480 before this thing has even happened, before anyone has got to Ottawa.

00:02:26.920 Now, let me say first off that this is not at all, in my view,

00:02:31.700 out of the realm of possibility that someone could do something bad.

00:02:35.220 And I think all of the organizers, all of the people supporting the convoy

00:02:38.600 need to condemn that when it happens.

00:02:40.780 I am supporting the convoy as a peaceful protest.

00:02:43.840 I'm supporting the convoy's message of opposing vaccine mandates,

00:02:47.800 but in general, taking a stand for freedom.

00:02:51.300 I unequivocally denounce anyone who uses this for whatever reason,

00:02:56.120 for any form of violence or illegality.

00:02:59.380 That is not what this is about.

00:03:00.920 And if it becomes that, I'll deal with that.

00:03:03.600 But a lot of the people, and you see this in the media coverage,

00:03:06.380 are hoping it will be violent.

00:03:09.200 They're hoping this will be the very worst case scenario.

00:03:12.940 My view on this is anytime we have thousands of people,

00:03:16.140 hundreds of thousands of people getting together,

00:03:18.860 expressing their political views safely,

00:03:21.060 even if I disagree with those views, that's a victory for a free society.

00:03:25.500 That's a victory for democracy.

00:03:28.020 I would never hope for the worst.

00:03:29.840 When Black Lives Matter protests were going on last year,

00:03:32.480 I wasn't sitting at home saying,

00:03:33.940 I hope it goes violent so I can use that to wedge my political opponents.

00:03:38.120 No, I say, great, they made a point as they have a right to do.

00:03:42.180 Those in the convoy are doing the same thing.

00:03:44.640 They are making a point because they have a right to do it.

00:03:47.080 And in this case, I think it is an incredibly important point.

00:03:51.300 All of the things that I've talked about in the last few weeks on this show,

00:03:54.460 about my pessimism, about where Canadians are on vaccine mandates,

00:03:58.720 on vaccine passports, that's starting to turn.

00:04:02.060 And one of the reasons I've been so motivated this week,

00:04:04.160 I've been tweeting nonstop, I've been writing columns,

00:04:06.140 doing shows, doing interviews.

00:04:07.300 One of the reasons is because for the first time in the pandemic,

00:04:11.280 I'm feeling optimistic.

00:04:13.960 I don't know why it is.

00:04:15.900 Well, I do know why it is, but I don't know why it's taken this long.

00:04:18.440 But for the first time, I'm feeling like things are turning.

00:04:22.300 Because what I'm seeing in my circles and outside my circles,

00:04:26.440 I really try to avoid being in an echo chamber,

00:04:28.800 is that there is a huge divide between how Ottawa,

00:04:32.140 how downtown Ottawa views and speaks about the convoy,

00:04:35.640 and how everyone else in the world familiar with it is doing it.

00:04:39.800 And I'm very deliberate when I say in the world.

00:04:43.260 And we'll go through some of the examples of this,

00:04:45.320 because the Parliamentary Press Gallery coverage has by and large been that

00:04:48.660 this is just, again, an attempted coup.

00:04:50.740 It's going to be Canada's January 6th incident.

00:04:53.200 But everyone else is saying this is great.

00:04:56.420 There's a reason that this has been on Fox News in the US,

00:04:59.380 GB News in the UK, Donald Trump Jr. did a video about it,

00:05:03.320 and people from Europe that are part of the protest movements against lockdowns

00:05:06.860 have been sharing this.

00:05:08.060 This is massive.

00:05:09.020 This is global now.

00:05:10.980 Because Canada is entering the big leagues as far as citizens that are taking a stand

00:05:15.100 for their rights.

00:05:17.560 And in a lot of ways, this is being more favorably viewed outside of Canada

00:05:21.260 than it is by the elites in Canada.

00:05:23.660 And I think that's very telling, because we are seeing something that's part of a global movement.

00:05:29.520 I did two days ago, I think, or maybe it was yesterday,

00:05:32.200 a 30-minute-long interview with an American radio station.

00:05:35.800 And it was a host I've known.

00:05:37.240 I've done some stuff with him in the past.

00:05:39.040 But he said his listeners were fascinated.

00:05:40.900 He's doing coverage of this every day.

00:05:42.980 He's in the US.

00:05:43.900 It doesn't really affect him all that much.

00:05:46.160 Certainly, it might affect some of his audience,

00:05:47.900 because American truckers are evidently affected by this vaccine mandate.

00:05:52.160 But there's a message that's being shared here

00:05:55.660 that is resonating with people,

00:05:58.280 that's managed to turn my pessimism into at least a glimmer of optimism

00:06:02.640 as we head into the weekend.

00:06:05.020 It's why I'm so thrilled to be going to Ottawa on the weekend to actually see this.

00:06:08.460 This is going to be historic one way or another.

00:06:11.040 Now, I should say, I don't buy most of the numbers that have been given.

00:06:14.820 People throw out numbers like,

00:06:16.200 oh, there are going to be a million people, 50,000.

00:06:18.660 I don't buy any of that.

00:06:19.780 But I think there are going to be a lot of people.

00:06:22.280 I think there are going to be thousands.

00:06:23.800 I don't know how many trucks.

00:06:25.320 I've seen reports that the convoy has stretched over 70 kilometers long.

00:06:29.900 I don't know what that is in trucks.

00:06:31.580 I don't know how many car lengths between them.

00:06:33.640 I have heard some reports that the Ontario-Manitoba border,

00:06:37.120 where they crossed Wednesday, I think it was,

00:06:39.520 there were about 900 trucks that crossed at that particular point.

00:06:43.840 Now, there are other routes.

00:06:45.020 People are coming from Windsor up the 401.

00:06:47.380 People are coming from Eastern Canada.

00:06:49.440 So who knows?

00:06:51.100 But the whole point is, we're not talking about nothing here.

00:06:54.080 And as I mentioned on the show the other day,

00:06:56.720 anyone who's spent any time in downtown Ottawa will know this will be noticed.

00:07:00.660 It might be just infuriating if you're trying to get around.

00:07:02.920 I feel bad if anyone has a meeting they have to get to in Ottawa.

00:07:05.660 Not that anyone in downtown Ottawa works on Saturday.

00:07:08.320 But you know what I mean?

00:07:09.060 It's going to be difficult to get around,

00:07:10.600 because this is going to be something that the city's infrastructure

00:07:13.560 is not designed to handle, but it's going to be noticed.

00:07:17.300 It's going to be seen, and it is making a point,

00:07:20.960 and that point is resonating.

00:07:22.200 And even if Justin Trudeau wants to diminish and denounce it,

00:07:26.040 that doesn't mean that ordinary people are not seeing it.

00:07:28.960 On that note, let's talk about Justin Trudeau's response.

00:07:32.160 Canadians have stepped up to protect each other,

00:07:35.900 to protect our frontline workers,

00:07:37.620 to protect our elders, to protect our young people,

00:07:39.720 to protect people like truckers who are putting food on our grocery store shelves.

00:07:46.160 Canadians have stepped up to do the right thing,

00:07:48.840 to protect the freedoms and the rights of Canadians

00:07:54.260 to get back to the things we love to do.

00:07:58.100 We know the way through this pandemic

00:08:02.080 is by getting everyone vaccinated.

00:08:06.540 And the overwhelming majority, close to 90% of Canadians,

00:08:11.520 have done exactly that.

00:08:14.780 The small fringe minority of people who are on their way to Ottawa

00:08:21.940 or who are holding unacceptable views that they are expressing

00:08:27.660 do not represent the views of Canadians

00:08:32.860 who have been there for each other,

00:08:35.320 who know that following the science

00:08:38.160 and stepping up to protect each other

00:08:41.160 is the best way to continue to ensure our freedoms,

00:08:45.180 our rights, our values as a country.

00:08:47.640 Ooh, unacceptable views.

00:08:50.220 Did you hear that?

00:08:50.800 That's what these are.

00:08:51.460 The people that are going to Ottawa have unacceptable views.

00:08:54.400 Well, what are those views?

00:08:55.300 What is this about?

00:08:56.020 I actually got a little bit of pushback on the show last week

00:08:59.780 because I said that this is a protest about vaccine mandates

00:09:02.340 first and foremost.

00:09:04.000 And I was clear to make the point

00:09:05.500 that it has become about something bigger.

00:09:07.860 But the genesis of this is truckers

00:09:09.740 affected by a mandate from the government

00:09:11.780 resisting that mandate.

00:09:13.200 That was the start.

00:09:14.200 That doesn't mean it hasn't ballooned beyond that.

00:09:16.740 But at its core,

00:09:18.000 the biggest threats to freedom right now

00:09:19.620 are coming in the form of vaccine mandates

00:09:21.860 and vaccine passports.

00:09:23.000 So I think it's fair to say

00:09:24.720 that this is a protest that yes,

00:09:26.200 is about freedom.

00:09:27.640 But the freedom to do what?

00:09:29.160 The freedom to live your life,

00:09:30.660 make your own decisions

00:09:31.520 and not have the government

00:09:32.800 outlaw your industry

00:09:33.960 or segregate you in society

00:09:35.780 and that all of these related things.

00:09:38.240 So this is unacceptable to Justin Trudeau.

00:09:41.880 Whatever happened to,

00:09:43.120 we must reach out.

00:09:44.200 Diversity is our strength,

00:09:45.380 not diversity of opinion,

00:09:46.580 mind you, clearly.

00:09:48.240 Or this tweet in 2020

00:09:50.060 when Justin Trudeau talked

00:09:51.460 at the beginning of the pandemic

00:09:52.820 when everyone was still clanging

00:09:53.980 their pots and pans

00:09:54.940 for essential workers

00:09:55.900 saying that we should all thank a trucker.

00:09:58.020 We should all be so grateful to the truckers.

00:10:00.460 And now the truckers are harboring

00:10:02.240 unacceptable views

00:10:04.040 as they head to Ottawa

00:10:05.380 to protest his government.

00:10:06.660 That's the message he's sending

00:10:08.000 that if you don't like him,

00:10:09.080 if you don't support

00:10:09.840 his handling of the pandemic,

00:10:11.420 that is just an unacceptable view.

00:10:14.480 Now, mind you,

00:10:15.020 unacceptable is still better

00:10:16.160 than racist, sexist, misogynist.

00:10:17.940 So at least the insults

00:10:19.080 are coming down a little bit.

00:10:21.280 I took aim on Tuesday

00:10:22.580 about Aaron O'Toole's

00:10:23.540 lack of response to this.

00:10:25.540 And I'm semi-pleased to report

00:10:28.180 there's been a bit of a response

00:10:29.740 from Aaron O'Toole.

00:10:30.620 Now, first off,

00:10:31.680 I want to talk about the response

00:10:32.820 from conservative members of parliament

00:10:34.380 because I listed a handful

00:10:36.060 on the last show

00:10:37.200 that had come out

00:10:37.940 that had seemingly broken ranks

00:10:39.560 with O'Toole's inability

00:10:41.140 or unwillingness to say

00:10:42.620 what he thought of the convoy.

00:10:44.060 And now I can't even list them all.

00:10:45.780 There are so many.

00:10:46.620 There are people like John Barlow

00:10:47.900 and Leslyn Lewis

00:10:48.840 and Andrew Scheer

00:10:50.340 and Pierre Polyev

00:10:51.500 and Bob Zimmer.

00:10:53.200 These are just names

00:10:54.220 that just happened

00:10:55.180 to come across my desk recently.

00:10:57.040 But so many members

00:10:58.280 of the conservatives

00:10:58.920 are getting behind this.

00:11:00.980 A lot of them

00:11:01.520 are going to be there.

00:11:02.440 A lot of them have seen

00:11:03.120 the convoy off

00:11:03.940 as it's gone through their town.

00:11:05.600 Aaron O'Toole,

00:11:06.420 I thought,

00:11:07.000 would do a video

00:11:07.720 or something.

00:11:09.380 He did an op-ed

00:11:10.320 in the Toronto Sun.

00:11:11.700 Now,

00:11:12.280 I'm going to try

00:11:13.260 to be generous here.

00:11:15.380 But I have to point out

00:11:16.540 that he did not use

00:11:17.600 the word convoy

00:11:18.680 once in the story.

00:11:20.540 So this is a column

00:11:21.560 about the truckers,

00:11:22.480 about the protests,

00:11:23.680 but he didn't use

00:11:24.620 the word convoy,

00:11:25.680 which I don't think

00:11:26.740 is an oversight.

00:11:27.460 I think it's deliberate.

00:11:28.280 He talked about it

00:11:29.100 in more general terms

00:11:30.560 about those coming

00:11:31.620 to Ottawa right now,

00:11:32.760 the truckers coming

00:11:33.520 to Ottawa.

00:11:34.320 And he says that,

00:11:35.360 you know,

00:11:35.560 the pandemic's tough,

00:11:36.500 yada, yada, yada.

00:11:37.140 You have to get down

00:11:37.680 to like paragraph,

00:11:38.580 I don't know,

00:11:38.900 nine or ten

00:11:39.420 or something like that

00:11:40.260 before he says

00:11:41.460 that truckers plan 0.80

00:11:43.220 to be in Ottawa

00:11:43.740 to protest the policy.

00:11:45.080 He says they've been

00:11:45.900 through a lot

00:11:46.480 so you can understand

00:11:47.580 why they are protesting.

00:11:49.520 He says Canadians 0.98

00:11:50.280 have a right to be heard,

00:11:51.580 not just in an election,

00:11:53.600 but at all times,

00:11:54.700 especially in these

00:11:55.700 extraordinary circumstances.

00:11:57.780 Thousands of Canadians

00:11:58.780 have spent their hard-earned money

00:12:00.280 to come to Ottawa.

00:12:01.540 Any reasonable concerns

00:12:02.960 must be heard.

00:12:04.260 They have a right to be heard.

00:12:06.180 And then he says,

00:12:07.060 which is fair,

00:12:07.760 that he condemns anyone

00:12:08.920 that tries to exploit

00:12:10.120 this movement

00:12:10.720 to put a violent

00:12:12.020 or hateful

00:12:12.900 or threatening tone.

00:12:14.620 He says hate

00:12:15.120 and bigotry have no place.

00:12:16.720 He loves the country.

00:12:17.880 It upsets him

00:12:18.620 that some people

00:12:19.260 might try to shoehorn

00:12:21.100 violent motives into this.

00:12:22.980 And I think that's fair.

00:12:24.040 I think he needs

00:12:24.700 to put that on the record

00:12:25.600 because obviously

00:12:26.240 he wants some distance

00:12:27.600 between him and this

00:12:28.400 if it goes wrong.

00:12:30.180 But he says

00:12:31.180 they have a right to be heard

00:12:32.520 and they should be heard.

00:12:34.240 It's not exactly

00:12:35.140 a statement of support

00:12:36.200 but at least it's something.

00:12:37.960 At least he's not

00:12:38.680 condemning and vilifying

00:12:40.140 which, by the way,

00:12:41.380 is more likely

00:12:42.220 to cause there to be

00:12:43.120 a violent outcome

00:12:44.280 than anything else.

00:12:45.640 The rhetoric

00:12:46.080 that people like

00:12:46.740 Justin Trudeau

00:12:47.420 and NDP leader

00:12:48.400 Jagmeet Singh

00:12:49.140 are heaping on this

00:12:50.540 is more likely

00:12:51.440 to inflame tensions

00:12:52.540 than anything else.

00:12:54.760 But again,

00:12:55.400 here's my message

00:12:56.260 to anyone who's part

00:12:57.180 of this convoy

00:12:57.860 either officially

00:12:58.540 or unofficially.

00:12:59.640 If you stoop

00:13:00.680 to the level

00:13:01.200 the left wants you

00:13:02.020 to stoop to,

00:13:02.940 all you do

00:13:03.840 is give them a win.

00:13:05.760 It's wrong.

00:13:06.760 It's first and foremost wrong.

00:13:08.180 It's morally wrong

00:13:08.880 on its own.

00:13:09.540 But even politically

00:13:10.420 it is not helping

00:13:11.400 your cause

00:13:11.980 in any way whatsoever.

00:13:13.460 It's giving them the win.

00:13:14.680 So do not go there

00:13:15.640 whatsoever

00:13:16.040 and I will not hesitate

00:13:17.240 to condemn and denounce

00:13:18.180 preemptively

00:13:18.820 and after the fact as well

00:13:20.360 if such a thing happens.

00:13:22.960 But I note

00:13:23.520 that it's only the right

00:13:24.480 that's forced to answer

00:13:25.740 for the worst

00:13:26.580 of its movements.

00:13:28.020 It's only the right

00:13:28.700 that's forced to do that.

00:13:30.320 I gotta share

00:13:31.080 this is hilarious

00:13:32.200 in a way

00:13:33.020 but still shameful.

00:13:34.120 This was a report

00:13:35.100 in Parliament Today

00:13:36.880 which is a Parliament Hill

00:13:38.240 focused publication

00:13:39.220 that came out yesterday

00:13:40.880 and they quoted

00:13:42.120 a national security expert

00:13:44.300 and I use the word expert

00:13:45.460 in a very loose sense there

00:13:47.100 saying that

00:13:47.700 anyone who donated

00:13:48.740 to the GoFundMe

00:13:49.660 which has reached

00:13:50.400 millions and millions

00:13:51.360 of dollars now

00:13:51.960 I'm not even going to give

00:13:52.560 a number

00:13:52.880 because it'll change

00:13:53.680 by the time

00:13:54.200 I finish recording

00:13:55.240 could be strung up

00:13:56.860 on terrorism financing charges.

00:14:00.480 That's the messaging

00:14:02.420 the media is putting out here.

00:14:03.600 The quote is that

00:14:04.460 those who have donated

00:14:06.260 to groups in support

00:14:07.180 of the ongoing truck rallies

00:14:08.300 could be found guilty

00:14:09.440 under the criminal code

00:14:10.540 as they directly

00:14:11.980 or indirectly

00:14:12.800 could provide

00:14:13.660 financial services

00:14:14.860 intended to carry out

00:14:16.600 any terrorist activity

00:14:18.140 or benefit such a group.

00:14:20.340 So, you know,

00:14:21.260 I just imagine

00:14:22.200 that if you do

00:14:23.160 get strung up for this

00:14:24.040 it's going to make

00:14:24.480 for some very awkward

00:14:25.300 conversations

00:14:26.020 in the jail cell

00:14:27.440 because you're going

00:14:27.940 to be beside a guy

00:14:28.760 who smuggled arms

00:14:29.920 to ISIS

00:14:30.540 and he's going to be like

00:14:31.880 oh yeah,

00:14:32.420 what are you in for?

00:14:33.140 Smuggling arms to ISIS too?

00:14:34.420 And you'll be like

00:14:34.880 no, I gave $10 to a trucker.

00:14:38.760 Yeah, that's basically

00:14:40.220 where things are now.

00:14:41.200 So, if you donated

00:14:42.440 to the GoFundMe

00:14:43.240 be careful

00:14:43.780 the RCMP could be coming

00:14:44.960 for you

00:14:45.440 because according

00:14:46.360 to this national security expert

00:14:48.280 quoted in the media

00:14:49.420 you are a terror financier

00:14:51.780 or should I say

00:14:52.680 you are potentially

00:14:53.700 a terror financier.

00:14:55.300 You could potentially

00:14:56.120 be charged.

00:14:56.820 You've got to

00:14:57.320 leave yourself

00:14:58.540 some wiggle room there.

00:14:59.960 But this is what

00:15:00.680 we're up against.

00:15:01.360 Global News ran a story

00:15:02.520 as well in which

00:15:03.220 they focused on this

00:15:04.100 as being this

00:15:05.280 far-right hate movement

00:15:06.980 and they say

00:15:07.640 even in the story

00:15:08.740 that well,

00:15:09.160 it's not everyone.

00:15:10.080 I mean,

00:15:10.260 but why focus on that?

00:15:12.180 Why are you defining

00:15:13.240 the whole

00:15:13.900 based on the minority?

00:15:15.940 Why are you defining

00:15:16.600 the whole

00:15:17.280 based on

00:15:19.100 what is very clearly

00:15:20.520 an outlier?

00:15:21.280 The organizers

00:15:21.860 have condemned it.

00:15:22.640 They've said

00:15:23.080 if you want to

00:15:23.960 put any violence

00:15:25.000 into this,

00:15:25.540 stay home.

00:15:26.080 We do not want you here.

00:15:27.680 This is not

00:15:28.300 what we're about.

00:15:29.720 And that to me

00:15:30.620 is an entirely

00:15:31.360 saleable point.

00:15:32.520 I think it's the most

00:15:33.080 important point of this.

00:15:34.840 So this is a peaceful

00:15:36.680 protest through and through

00:15:37.980 and it should remain that.

00:15:40.260 And the critics

00:15:41.580 are not warning

00:15:42.800 because they're trying

00:15:43.880 to protect public safety.

00:15:45.140 They're warning

00:15:45.540 because they're trying

00:15:46.220 to delegitimize

00:15:47.020 a movement

00:15:47.700 that is gaining steam

00:15:49.480 and threatening

00:15:50.280 their ironclad grip

00:15:52.780 on public opinion.

00:15:56.160 That's what's

00:15:56.840 happening here.

00:15:57.440 Justin Trudeau

00:15:58.060 doesn't like

00:15:58.760 that the tide

00:15:59.660 may be turning.

00:16:00.460 People may not be

00:16:01.360 all of a sudden

00:16:02.060 fans of lockdowns

00:16:03.200 and vaccine mandates.

00:16:04.780 So all he can do

00:16:06.060 is scapegoat

00:16:06.880 this group

00:16:07.600 that's making a point

00:16:08.980 that more and more

00:16:09.900 Canadians are agreeing with.

00:16:11.340 You look at

00:16:11.960 some of the footage

00:16:12.600 of people lining

00:16:13.540 the streets,

00:16:14.320 lining the overpasses.

00:16:15.860 There was a video

00:16:16.480 I came across

00:16:17.220 of a bunch of women. 1.00

00:16:18.020 I don't even know

00:16:18.380 what town it was.

00:16:19.040 They were making

00:16:19.500 sandwiches for the truckers

00:16:20.780 while singing

00:16:21.620 O Canada.

00:16:22.940 And I said on Twitter

00:16:23.940 I didn't know

00:16:24.460 what people would find

00:16:25.260 more triggering

00:16:25.880 that they sang

00:16:26.500 the O Canada lyrics

00:16:27.540 with sons in it

00:16:29.080 or that it was

00:16:30.020 women making 0.96

00:16:30.660 sandwiches for men.

00:16:32.200 I didn't know

00:16:32.580 which would be

00:16:33.380 more off-putting

00:16:34.560 to people.

00:16:35.080 But this is a movement.

00:16:37.420 This is a movement

00:16:38.600 and it's one

00:16:39.300 that's growing.

00:16:40.140 And I don't know

00:16:40.560 what it's going to look

00:16:41.080 like on Ottawa.

00:16:41.720 I don't know

00:16:42.040 what the final tally

00:16:42.860 is going to be.

00:16:43.680 Getting people

00:16:44.140 to stand out

00:16:44.700 in the cold

00:16:45.180 in Ottawa

00:16:45.740 at the end of January

00:16:47.000 is difficult

00:16:48.140 but people are

00:16:48.860 prepared to do that.

00:16:50.420 And it's not just

00:16:51.040 about truckers.

00:16:51.720 There are hundreds

00:16:52.220 of sedans

00:16:53.020 pickup trucks

00:16:54.140 that are non-commercial

00:16:55.180 farm vehicles

00:16:55.980 of people taking

00:16:56.760 some time off

00:16:57.440 that are joining

00:16:58.280 this convoy.

00:16:59.100 It isn't just

00:16:59.560 big rigs.

00:17:00.860 And to be honest

00:17:01.660 while the

00:17:02.100 again the genesis

00:17:03.080 of this was

00:17:03.960 about the stuff

00:17:05.620 that truckers 0.79

00:17:06.380 are facing

00:17:06.980 it has become

00:17:08.860 about so much more.

00:17:10.760 It has become

00:17:11.480 about so much more

00:17:12.200 and I think

00:17:12.920 will continue

00:17:13.560 to be.

00:17:14.220 And interestingly

00:17:14.780 enough a lot

00:17:15.340 has been made

00:17:15.760 about the fact

00:17:16.220 that the Canadian

00:17:16.960 Trucking Alliance

00:17:18.060 which is the

00:17:19.340 no I don't want

00:17:20.420 to say official

00:17:21.020 but more of

00:17:21.800 one of the

00:17:22.100 established groups

00:17:23.900 representing truckers

00:17:24.900 they've actually

00:17:25.620 said that they

00:17:26.780 condemn this.

00:17:27.480 They've said

00:17:27.740 it doesn't

00:17:28.120 represent them

00:17:28.880 the majority

00:17:29.320 of truckers

00:17:29.780 are vaccinated

00:17:30.340 and that's that.

00:17:31.400 And whatever

00:17:31.900 you think of

00:17:32.360 their position

00:17:32.840 that's their

00:17:33.320 position.

00:17:33.920 But they do

00:17:34.940 not represent

00:17:35.660 truckers

00:17:36.260 we're seeing.

00:17:37.180 They don't

00:17:37.440 represent all

00:17:37.960 truckers I should

00:17:38.560 say and it's

00:17:38.980 very much

00:17:39.400 like teachers

00:17:40.240 unions.

00:17:40.580 We get messages

00:17:41.300 all the time

00:17:41.820 from teachers

00:17:42.300 union members

00:17:43.580 saying you know

00:17:44.520 what my union

00:17:45.040 said about this

00:17:45.700 doesn't represent

00:17:46.380 me and so on

00:17:47.780 and so forth.

00:17:48.860 And also I would

00:17:50.080 say other groups

00:17:50.640 are coming out

00:17:51.420 against it like

00:17:51.960 the Canadian

00:17:52.520 Federation of

00:17:53.520 Independent Business

00:17:54.320 CFIB.

00:17:55.160 They've said

00:17:55.860 that they're

00:17:56.320 opposed to the

00:17:56.960 trucker vaccine

00:17:57.640 mandate.

00:17:58.460 So they're doing

00:17:59.060 a better job I

00:17:59.860 think representing

00:18:00.600 the diversity of

00:18:01.500 opinions in the

00:18:02.420 trucking industry

00:18:03.200 than the group

00:18:04.360 that's supposed

00:18:04.880 to represent the

00:18:05.880 trucking industry

00:18:06.640 itself is doing.

00:18:08.560 One point I'll

00:18:09.400 make before I

00:18:10.460 wrap up this

00:18:11.300 segment is that

00:18:12.540 there are going

00:18:13.420 to be a lot of

00:18:14.020 people and we're

00:18:14.520 seeing this right

00:18:15.120 now in the

00:18:15.580 conservative movement

00:18:16.480 Aaron O'Toole

00:18:17.240 wouldn't take a

00:18:18.320 position when he

00:18:19.080 finally did it was

00:18:20.240 a lukewarm

00:18:21.160 position at least

00:18:22.140 he's not condemning

00:18:22.980 but his caucus

00:18:24.000 members as

00:18:24.800 mentioned earlier

00:18:25.520 including again

00:18:26.520 high-ranking

00:18:27.180 people the deputy

00:18:27.920 leader of the

00:18:28.580 conservatives even

00:18:29.300 Candace Bergen

00:18:30.080 have been very

00:18:31.120 clear that they

00:18:32.760 support the message

00:18:33.580 and I think

00:18:34.240 they've also been

00:18:34.980 clear indirectly

00:18:36.540 that they're not

00:18:38.520 following O'Toole's

00:18:39.820 lead anymore

00:18:40.380 they're not

00:18:40.860 waiting for O'Toole

00:18:41.700 to decide what to

00:18:42.580 do and going

00:18:43.280 whichever way he

00:18:43.960 goes and I think

00:18:44.720 that's been the

00:18:45.320 big story that we'll

00:18:46.200 be enduring beyond

00:18:47.140 the convoy here

00:18:48.000 it's no surprise

00:18:49.240 that there have

00:18:49.820 been several

00:18:50.380 electoral district

00:18:51.380 associations so

00:18:52.440 the local

00:18:53.520 conservative chapters

00:18:54.560 if you will this

00:18:55.740 week that have

00:18:56.420 called for early

00:18:57.480 leadership reviews I

00:18:58.560 think there have

00:18:59.020 been four or five

00:18:59.840 of them now there

00:19:00.820 could be some more

00:19:01.740 as this gathers a

00:19:02.740 bit of momentum

00:19:03.280 so local

00:19:04.720 conservative

00:19:05.440 grassroots groups

00:19:06.460 that are saying

00:19:07.100 you know what we

00:19:07.980 want to have a say

00:19:08.920 on O'Toole's

00:19:09.420 leadership not in

00:19:10.160 2023 but right

00:19:11.700 now by no later

00:19:13.500 than June was what

00:19:14.280 I think one of the

00:19:14.900 letters or all of

00:19:16.020 the letters that

00:19:16.560 these groups signed

00:19:17.380 was saying so

00:19:19.640 that's going to be

00:19:20.580 a big problem for

00:19:22.060 O'Toole now the

00:19:22.880 Globe and Mail and

00:19:23.860 the mainstream media

00:19:24.520 they're saying that

00:19:25.100 O'Toole needs to

00:19:25.740 just run so far

00:19:26.540 away from this they

00:19:27.180 don't want there to

00:19:27.740 be any daylight between

00:19:29.180 Aaron O'Toole's

00:19:29.880 position and Justin

00:19:31.060 Trudeau's position

00:19:31.940 the Globe said he's

00:19:33.540 going to get run over

00:19:34.480 unless he distances

00:19:35.440 himself and condemns

00:19:36.600 the convoy but that's

00:19:38.560 the message is that

00:19:39.300 these people are

00:19:40.040 unworthy of being

00:19:41.040 heard these people

00:19:42.160 don't have a right to

00:19:42.940 process and more

00:19:43.680 importantly that no

00:19:44.880 one has a right to

00:19:45.600 tell the government

00:19:46.160 hey you don't get to

00:19:47.180 make decisions about

00:19:48.080 our bodies about our

00:19:49.020 health care that you're

00:19:49.960 not allowed to say

00:19:50.680 that to the government

00:19:51.300 if you say that it is

00:19:52.600 just in Justin

00:19:53.420 Trudeau's immortal

00:19:54.100 words unacceptable

00:19:55.520 we've got to wrap

00:19:57.180 things up for this

00:19:57.980 segment we'll be back

00:19:58.760 in a couple of

00:19:59.260 moments with a

00:19:59.760 can't miss interview

00:20:00.460 with former Newfoundland

00:20:02.060 Premier Brian Peckford

00:20:03.460 stay tuned

00:20:04.060 welcome back

00:20:13.640 well obviously some of

00:20:14.680 the people who wanted

00:20:15.560 to go to Ottawa for

00:20:16.680 the big rally have not

00:20:18.140 been able to if they

00:20:19.140 had to fly to get there

00:20:20.240 not everyone has a big

00:20:21.800 rig or can take the

00:20:22.600 time to drive across

00:20:23.820 the country and that's

00:20:25.160 because there still is in

00:20:26.280 effect right now a

00:20:27.200 vaccine mandate for air

00:20:28.840 travel no end in sight

00:20:30.480 to this no willingness

00:20:31.720 from Justin Trudeau to

00:20:32.880 ease up on this even as

00:20:34.520 we've moved to the

00:20:35.240 Omicron era in which

00:20:36.980 whether you're

00:20:37.480 vaccinated or unvaccinated

00:20:38.880 doesn't seem to have

00:20:39.760 too much of an effect

00:20:40.600 and whether you're going

00:20:41.600 to catch or spread

00:20:42.780 Omicron so what's

00:20:44.340 happening now is people

00:20:45.920 are fed up with this

00:20:46.960 air travel vaccine

00:20:48.020 mandate that like

00:20:48.820 anything else is

00:20:49.900 looking like it's going

00:20:50.800 to be this indefinite

00:20:52.200 measure that we never

00:20:53.620 really get rid of much

00:20:54.600 like the vaccine

00:20:55.280 passport much like a lot

00:20:57.060 of the other

00:20:57.620 restrictions there's a

00:20:58.960 big challenge that was

00:20:59.960 launched this week in

00:21:01.600 federal court by Brian

00:21:03.040 Peckford and other

00:21:04.440 applicants as well but

00:21:05.580 Brian Peckford is notable

00:21:06.820 because he is the former

00:21:08.180 premier of Newfoundland

00:21:09.680 he's also the last

00:21:11.640 surviving of the

00:21:12.980 crafters of the

00:21:14.620 Charter of Rights and

00:21:15.680 Freedoms of the

00:21:16.420 Constitution Act of 1982

00:21:18.540 he's the last living of

00:21:20.100 those premiers that

00:21:20.980 were negotiating and

00:21:22.300 adopting in 1980s and

00:21:24.260 ultimately in 1982 the

00:21:26.120 document that now forms

00:21:27.440 the backbone of

00:21:28.500 Canadian rights and

00:21:29.780 freedoms and or is

00:21:31.300 supposed to anyway we'll

00:21:32.340 get to that in a little

00:21:33.220 bit but why this is

00:21:34.480 important is because

00:21:35.240 Brian Peckford is filing

00:21:36.620 a charter challenge he's

00:21:38.040 saying that the

00:21:38.480 government is ignoring

00:21:39.940 the charter that is the

00:21:41.740 linchpin in his legacy 0.97

00:21:43.000 as a premier I'll let him

00:21:45.240 explain exactly why that

00:21:46.620 is Brian Peckford joins me

00:21:48.000 now the Honorable Brian

00:21:49.200 Peckford it's good to

00:21:50.260 speak to you sir thanks

00:21:51.000 very much for your time

00:21:51.840 today

00:21:52.140 yeah thank you for having

00:21:53.720 me now we talked last

00:21:55.920 time it's nearly 40 years

00:21:58.040 since the Canadian

00:21:59.160 Charter of Rights and

00:22:00.140 Freedoms was adopted

00:22:01.180 since the Constitution was

00:22:03.080 brought home as they say

00:22:04.320 and you're now taking the

00:22:05.980 government to court for

00:22:06.920 violating the very

00:22:08.160 charter in which you were

00:22:09.160 instrumental in passing

00:22:10.280 why

00:22:11.000 yeah I think this is

00:22:13.300 rather historic I don't

00:22:14.660 know of any other first

00:22:15.620 minister in the history of

00:22:16.800 Canada who's taken the 0.96

00:22:18.720 federal government to court

00:22:19.660 over something that that

00:22:20.720 first minister had a hand in

00:22:22.180 creating and writing and

00:22:24.440 why I'm doing it Andrew is

00:22:25.960 because over the series of

00:22:28.320 months since I talked to

00:22:29.640 you and before even that you

00:22:31.940 know I've been watching as

00:22:33.120 many Canadians have with

00:22:34.440 great alarm as the

00:22:36.320 governments have moved more

00:22:37.700 and more in the field of

00:22:40.180 restricting individual rights

00:22:41.740 and freedoms and of course

00:22:42.960 the Charter of Rights and

00:22:44.500 Freedoms is very dear to my

00:22:45.840 heart being one of those who

00:22:47.280 was involved in creating it

00:22:49.320 and I've issued many

00:22:52.120 statements I've done very

00:22:53.740 many interviews 50 or 60

00:22:55.820 interviews across the

00:22:56.920 country and I've done a lot

00:22:59.380 of public meetings and so on

00:23:00.720 and I've heard from an awful

00:23:01.700 lot of people and a lot of

00:23:03.720 them agree with me that if we

00:23:05.300 don't win and the and the

00:23:08.840 Constitution and the Charter's

00:23:10.980 honored this time round this

00:23:12.920 will establish a precedent which

00:23:14.560 will dilute the power of the

00:23:17.480 Charter next time round and 1.00

00:23:19.560 therefore it's going to be

00:23:21.320 this erosion of our

00:23:22.240 individual rights and

00:23:23.200 freedoms and I guess a lot

00:23:25.420 of people would say the

00:23:27.860 violation of our individual

00:23:30.160 rights are not is not

00:23:32.300 justified even under section

00:23:34.120 one of the of the Charter my

00:23:36.420 argument of course is that

00:23:37.960 section one doesn't even

00:23:38.940 apply because I remember well

00:23:41.380 that section one was

00:23:42.280 supposed to apply when the

00:23:44.320 state was in peril the state

00:23:46.420 is not in in peril and we had

00:23:48.340 alternatives as left-hand

00:23:50.260 Colonel Redman has pointed out

00:23:52.120 as early treatment the doctors

00:23:55.340 have pointed out right we've

00:23:56.800 we've had alternatives to doing

00:23:58.760 this to Great Barrington

00:23:59.660 Declaration so it's not like we

00:24:01.540 didn't have alternatives so my

00:24:03.440 point is the end of my

00:24:04.900 individual right as a Canadian

00:24:07.460 to travel freely in this country

00:24:10.380 has been severely curtailed

00:24:12.420 without justification and it's

00:24:14.800 necessary for me as one Canadian

00:24:16.600 and the one person who's been

00:24:18.140 involved in the the Charter

00:24:20.000 Rights and Freedoms to stand up

00:24:21.580 for the individual Canadian

00:24:23.540 before we get to the bigger

00:24:25.900 picture and also to section one

00:24:27.700 which I'm glad you've raised

00:24:28.880 there let's talk about what your

00:24:30.180 complaint is because

00:24:31.080 specifically you're taking issue

00:24:33.080 with the vaccine mandate that

00:24:34.840 Justin Trudeau put in place in

00:24:36.200 October that says you cannot board

00:24:38.220 a plane at any commercial airport

00:24:40.580 in Canada unless you are fully

00:24:42.560 vaccinated which also means you

00:24:44.200 can't fly from Vancouver to

00:24:46.500 Halifax say but but more

00:24:48.300 importantly it means you can't fly

00:24:49.780 from Toronto to England or

00:24:52.600 Toronto to somewhere else in the

00:24:54.820 world that perhaps doesn't have a

00:24:56.200 vaccine mandate which

00:24:57.760 effectively landlocks Canadians 0.73

00:25:00.280 especially now that the United

00:25:01.640 States has put in a vaccine

00:25:03.160 mandate for its land border here

00:25:05.460 so your complaint I'm assuming is

00:25:07.720 that the mobility rights that

00:25:09.060 every Canadian has the right to

00:25:10.640 enter remain in or leave Canada

00:25:12.780 are being just completely

00:25:14.420 obliterated by this mandate

00:25:16.100 correct no question it's section

00:25:18.220 six of the of the Charter in

00:25:20.300 which it says every Canadian has

00:25:21.940 the right to travel anywhere in

00:25:23.740 Canada or leave Canada that's a 0.72

00:25:26.320 fundamental right that every

00:25:28.420 Canadian has as a result of the 0.75

00:25:30.000 Charter and so there's no

00:25:31.680 question listen Canada is a

00:25:34.140 nation of motion you know from

00:25:36.240 the Mackenzie River to the St.

00:25:37.700 Lawrence River to our explorers to

00:25:40.700 our later bush pilots to the CN and

00:25:43.020 CP moving across the nation these

00:25:45.580 movements were all part of creating

00:25:48.400 Canada as we know it today without

00:25:50.200 that rail line coming west you know

00:25:52.580 who knows whether what kind of a

00:25:55.080 country we would have today and so

00:25:57.580 movement and travel are integral to

00:26:01.120 who we are as Canadians and in

00:26:02.920 creating the country and that

00:26:04.500 history is very important that was

00:26:06.880 solidified in the Charter of Rights

00:26:09.140 and Freedoms and and so therefore

00:26:10.680 it's extremely important and as you

00:26:12.740 say it also to leave Canada as well

00:26:15.720 that's part of that mobility right and

00:26:17.880 so it has severely restricted I have

00:26:20.760 law firms calling me from all over

00:26:22.280 Canada about and industry by the way

00:26:26.020 industry lawyers who are saying they

00:26:28.000 want to go to court and they want to

00:26:30.040 challenge the federal government as

00:26:31.300 relates to this business of the

00:26:33.900 mobility because it's now hurting our

00:26:36.080 industry it's hurting industries in

00:26:38.060 Canada in their ability to do to do

00:26:40.840 business so it's extremely important

00:26:43.520 and there's been no cost benefit

00:26:45.280 analysis done to show that that

00:26:47.960 getting aboard a plane is any more

00:26:49.680 dangerous than going to Walmart you

00:26:51.400 know so this whole business of this

00:26:54.060 restriction has been done without

00:26:55.900 justification even if section one of

00:26:58.200 the Constitution apply one of the

00:27:00.940 interesting things about it is that no

00:27:03.400 one even at the height of the pandemic

00:27:05.140 when the border was closed no Canadian

00:27:06.940 could be denied entry to their own

00:27:09.420 country this is the fundamental right

00:27:11.220 of citizenship the government could make

00:27:13.080 it difficult for you like demanding

00:27:14.580 pre-arrival tests and quarantine but

00:27:16.560 but no Canadian could be prevented from

00:27:18.600 entering and when they put the flight

00:27:20.620 vaccine mandate in place one thing I

00:27:22.840 noted was that they didn't put the

00:27:25.280 mandate in place for getting on a

00:27:26.760 plane to Canada so in in a way the

00:27:29.700 government was acknowledging that this

00:27:31.880 charter right exists acknowledging that

00:27:33.780 you can't prevent Canadians from

00:27:35.620 entering their country but they're not 0.81

00:27:37.280 as concerned with it on the other side

00:27:38.800 of it traveling within the country or

00:27:40.620 exiting the country well I think both

00:27:43.360 those points are extremely important

00:27:45.320 and perhaps most important of those two

00:27:48.020 is traveling within your own country I

00:27:50.420 mean your family business and so on from

00:27:52.800 one province to another making it more

00:27:54.800 different for example the truckers

00:27:56.180 convoy right now they wanted me to come

00:28:01.180 to Ottawa to speak well how am I going to

00:28:03.100 get to Ottawa to speak you know you'd have

00:28:06.220 to rent a big rig yeah and so it would be

00:28:09.060 very very difficult for me to be able to do

00:28:11.040 that given my other business activities

00:28:13.360 right now my other personal activities in

00:28:16.600 in having interviews like this I'm busy

00:28:19.320 all day long from 8 to 11 I'm doing

00:28:21.860 interviews and doing public meetings and

00:28:24.560 and the like and doing speeches online so

00:28:27.060 it completely inhibits my ability as a

00:28:29.940 Canadian and I know there's hundreds and

00:28:31.660 thousands like me and then of course

00:28:33.540 exactly the discriminatory nature of it in

00:28:36.860 yes out no I mean that does not make sense

00:28:39.780 it's not consistent with any kind of law or

00:28:42.540 reason that one can think about but I come I

00:28:46.220 woke up this morning thinking about our

00:28:47.840 history and and that was the phrase sort of

00:28:50.220 that came up with a nation in motion we are

00:28:53.420 have been ever since first peoples right a

00:28:56.920 nation in motion they've lived off the

00:28:59.160 rivers they lived off the coastline they

00:29:01.000 lived and moving in canoes and other sea

00:29:03.920 craft right we're a nation in motion the

00:29:06.700 Mackenzie River you know it's an operating river

00:29:09.360 every day right the Yukon River right the

00:29:12.260 same confederation confederation itself

00:29:14.420 Brian you've relocated to British Columbia

00:29:16.520 BC only joined confederation because of 0.97

00:29:19.420 the promise by John A Macdonald of that

00:29:21.200 trans-continental railway that was the

00:29:23.620 only reason they they joined the country 0.99

00:29:25.440 so because there was an importance of

00:29:27.500 moving people from and goods from one

00:29:29.700 side to the other and now you couldn't

00:29:32.080 board that train John A Macdonald could

00:29:33.860 not board that intercontinental train to

00:29:35.680 go to BC if he weren't vaccinated

00:29:37.380 absolutely and this is a complete

00:29:40.260 abdication of government's responsibility

00:29:43.140 in urban that's the argument we'll be

00:29:44.860 making before the court of course we have

00:29:46.980 to argue that before the court and and

00:29:49.460 persuade them to sustain our right of

00:29:53.040 of travel over the other concerns that

00:29:56.520 the government may have which have not

00:29:58.780 been completely articulated and I think

00:30:00.680 this is where our argument has a lot of

00:30:03.300 merit is because on the other side on the

00:30:06.300 travel ban when it was instituted there

00:30:08.860 was no argument made as to why they were

00:30:11.340 bringing it in except that they had to

00:30:13.340 bring it in because it was going to affect

00:30:15.900 the transmission of the virus at the same

00:30:18.060 time as they were knowingly been informed

00:30:21.660 they've just been informed in the last few

00:30:23.820 months that vaccinated people receive the

00:30:27.500 virus and transmit the revirus just the same

00:30:30.300 as unvaccinated people do so their whole

00:30:32.780 health argument seems to be crumbling and

00:30:35.260 therefore to continue to insist upon this

00:30:38.140 kind of restriction on our freedoms does not

00:30:40.780 seem to us to be justified

00:30:42.620 let me ask you then about the internal

00:30:45.340 mobility here brian because one of the

00:30:47.660 responses that people would give is well

00:30:49.820 there's nothing stopping you from driving

00:30:51.500 your your right to go from BC to Ontario

00:30:54.540 hasn't been harmed because you could get in

00:30:56.540 a car and go it might take more time but

00:30:58.460 but your ability to do it still exists and what

00:31:01.420 is the response to that

00:31:02.940 there's a number of responses to that not

00:31:04.860 not the least of which is is that the whole

00:31:07.180 uh concept of of modern uh progression of

00:31:11.740 becoming modern so you you want to select what

00:31:15.100 is no longer modern in our society and and

00:31:18.540 constrict that by by some medical uh condition

00:31:22.140 right there it sort of flies in the face of our

00:31:25.740 natural thought of moving ahead as a country

00:31:29.580 and and progressing as a country right

00:31:31.740 i i find that very offensive the other thing

00:31:34.860 is of course it makes it more difficult

00:31:37.580 they're constricting the manner in which i can

00:31:40.940 travel right and the whole idea of the

00:31:43.660 mobility uh right is your right to travel in

00:31:48.060 canada full stop it doesn't say by car

00:31:50.540 by plane by train or by boat right it is a

00:31:54.620 general right of every canadian and so

00:31:58.060 by restricting which way i can travel

00:32:01.340 that interferes with that freedom

00:32:04.780 yeah and i guess the extension to that even

00:32:06.860 leaving the country there's nothing legally

00:32:08.700 stopping you from you know getting a canoe

00:32:11.260 and taking the mckenzie river all the way to

00:32:13.180 the pacific and then perhaps canoeing your way

00:32:15.500 to tuvalu or something but but in reality the

00:32:18.220 practical means of travel is uh is something that

00:32:21.340 takes place by air and when the government takes

00:32:23.980 that off the table they they do effectively

00:32:26.380 tell canadians they aren't allowed to travel

00:32:28.140 to say nothing of people that live on on islands

00:32:31.020 newfoundland for example where some ferries have

00:32:33.500 put vaccine mandates in place uh depending on on

00:32:36.540 where in the country they are so there are

00:32:38.140 significant restrictions here that for all that

00:32:40.700 canadian leaders love to vaunt the vastness of canada

00:32:45.260 they're now saying that canadians only some canadians can enjoy that vastness

00:32:50.060 absolutely no no no question about it and i i find that

00:32:53.580 uh you know an argument that cannot be sustained as you say

00:32:57.580 when a government goes about it deliberately goes about the business of

00:33:02.060 restricting your right as a canadian we know there's something you know

00:33:07.580 fundamentally wrong and this is what's happening right now i think of the bush

00:33:12.540 pilots you know what why did we get into air travel at all in that case you know

00:33:16.620 if you're going to start discriminating against some canadians and how they can

00:33:20.140 travel based on their medical condition you

00:33:22.380 you can still go this way you can still go that way

00:33:24.940 well that that defies the whole nature and progression of our nation

00:33:28.780 and and to begin to enter into a world of discrimination it seems to me

00:33:34.540 there's a very very slippery slope that we should never go down or even enter

00:33:39.420 unless it is unbelievably justified in a very extreme circumstance

00:33:45.100 and this is not extreme circumstance on a lighter note i have to correct myself

00:33:50.060 if you take the mckenzie river it's not going to get you anywhere near the

00:33:52.380 pacific so i don't recommend following my uh directions if you are trying to uh

00:33:56.140 canoe your way to tovalu but but on a more serious point yeah you have to go

00:34:00.060 around around alaska but uh i don't recommend it this time of year but

00:34:04.540 but but let me ask you brian go ahead you can go up from hay river and go all

00:34:08.940 the way there you go take a boat but there you go then you can just uh go

00:34:13.900 across to siberia it might be quicker but you can't do it and it will take you

00:34:17.340 weeks and weeks to do it let me ask you on a more serious point here

00:34:21.340 about the way that governments are viewing this because section one which you

00:34:24.940 mentioned earlier this is i i'd say one of the the more dangerous sections

00:34:28.220 we've seen in the last 40 years of the charter because it's the section that

00:34:31.900 says all of the rights you're about to read are subject to

00:34:34.940 reasonable limits and and the court has of course developed a

00:34:37.980 a test for that a very i i know you're going to finish the line and i and i'm

00:34:41.340 gonna i want you to do that but i'm talking about how it's been

00:34:44.540 perceived because governments have used this as sort of a trump card

00:34:47.900 that they can just say well you know this other thing's more important and

00:34:51.740 you are right and i and i knew where you were going with this so tell me

00:34:54.460 why does that not capture the entirety of those section one powers

00:34:58.380 well number one section one doesn't apply in my view as one of the

00:35:01.980 writers of section one it was meant to be in when the country's in a state of

00:35:05.980 peril insurrection or war this is not a state of peril

00:35:09.020 insurrection or war so number one my number one argument

00:35:12.300 is it doesn't apply and therefore the unconstitutionality exists

00:35:16.860 number two my argument is even if you wanted to apply for argument's sake

00:35:21.020 and that's what you want me to do engage in an argument on section one

00:35:24.700 you just mentioned and this is one of the people perceive it because it talks

00:35:28.060 about reasonable limits there are four tests the first one is

00:35:33.100 demonstrably justify what you're doing within reasonable

00:35:36.780 limits by law all in the context of a free and

00:35:40.300 democratic society you tell me that the government of

00:35:44.620 canada or any of the governments of canada have

00:35:47.660 met any or all of those four tests in the case of the travel ban they have not

00:35:52.780 demands to be justified that is necessary where is the report

00:35:56.460 where is the cost benefit analysis and where are they and then free and

00:35:59.980 democratic society means a parliamentary society that's what canada

00:36:04.380 stands for parliamentary where are the parliamentary committees

00:36:07.740 we have 14 parliaments in this country and none of them have been engaged

00:36:13.340 in any meaningful way in discussing and debating

00:36:17.340 these mandates and therefore two major conditions

00:36:21.660 of section one have not been met and therefore

00:36:24.620 what is happening is unconstitutional so i think on both counts

00:36:28.300 one it doesn't apply but if for argument's sake it does

00:36:31.740 on both counts the government uh in my view is acting

00:36:36.300 unconstitutional and that's what we'll be arguing before the federal court

00:36:40.780 i take what you're saying about the intent of section one and and you know

00:36:44.780 you're the last surviving of the architects and first minister so i think

00:36:48.620 your words on this should carry a lot of weight and i think do certainly

00:36:52.220 in my estimation but we look at the jurisprudence on this and courts have at

00:36:56.460 times especially in the last two years

00:36:59.020 taken very broad interpretations of those limits and we've seen

00:37:03.340 not that they've gone to the supreme court but at lower courts we've seen

00:37:06.060 government side or courts side with government on this

00:37:09.420 looking back on this is that a section that you would if you were to go back to

00:37:13.500 1982 with the knowledge you have now is this a section that you would uh support

00:37:18.540 in the way it's worded and and i guess what i mean by that is do you feel that

00:37:21.820 section one itself was a mistake in its in the way it was crafted or do you just

00:37:26.380 feel that governments and courts have wronged no not at all absolutely it wouldn't

00:37:30.780 change a word i wouldn't change i'll tell you why section one was not

00:37:35.180 negotiated in in as section one section one was negotiated in the context of all

00:37:40.300 the other sections of the charter and the charter was negotiated in the context of all

00:37:44.700 the other sections of of of the constitution act 982 that's one and what everybody forgets

00:37:50.300 that was the deal if we go back and try to reopen that other provisions of the constitution

00:37:55.900 will get changed there will be more negotiations more to and fro right that's the danger

00:38:01.340 that you face when you start to reopen things because you're not reopening just section one you're

00:38:05.900 reopening the charter you're not just reopening the charter you're reopening the constitution of 1982

00:38:12.220 and the aboriginal rights of 35 the equalization rights right that are in there the natural resource

00:38:18.060 lights that are in there the minority language rights center this was a negotiation on all these

00:38:22.940 matters okay so all these would come back in play and quebec would be there with other demands so what we

00:38:29.660 have in any reasonable person's mind right uh to me especially with all if those four conditions

00:38:37.420 weren't in we didn't say demonstrably justified if we didn't say by law if we didn't say in reasonable

00:38:42.620 limits if we didn't say free and democratic society now yes lower courts have ruled with the

00:38:48.220 governments but no high courts have ruled on this yet and unfortunately those two lower courts even forgot

00:38:54.540 their own superior court the supreme court of canada rule in 1986 about section one the oats test is

00:39:02.460 called and in the oats test they made it very clear that the onus was on the government to prove

00:39:10.220 what they were doing was necessary that's not even mentioned in the manitoba case that went the

00:39:16.940 government's way nor in the bc case that will be taken up don't you worry in all of the appeals that

00:39:22.700 are going forward in the court of appeal because the courts themselves never even adhered to their

00:39:28.700 own rules that had been established earlier by the supreme court of canada talking about your case

00:39:33.820 specifically here as you've noted there have been two years of legal challenges none of them have made

00:39:38.940 their way up to the supreme court yet there's a huge backlog in courts as people take lockdown fines

00:39:44.860 that they've had and bigger matters like this to court so this could take years and in that time

00:39:50.860 the government could say that we're rescinding the mandate the government could at this time

00:39:55.100 on using its government powers take it away there's a bigger point here i think which is that even if

00:40:00.940 it takes five years to get to the supreme court and the mandate is long gone the pandemic is declared

00:40:06.540 over there needs to be something on the record so that this never happens again you're in it for the

00:40:12.380 long haul aren't you i'm in it for the long haul no question i want to see the charter of rights and

00:40:18.380 freedoms the constitution act of 1982 restored in all its simple and plain meaning that's what i want

00:40:25.340 to see because like i said earlier if it's not then it sets a precedent for another time it makes it far

00:40:30.780 more difficult for our freedoms to be protected and safeguarded so we're in for the long haul but

00:40:35.100 remember this action goes to the federal court of canada it's not in the province it goes to the

00:40:39.980 federal court of canada and then uh either side has the right to appeal depending on who wins and

00:40:45.500 who loses to the supreme court of canada we are asking in our application for an expedited hearing

00:40:51.180 on this because we think this is extremely important for individuals who are unable to

00:40:55.980 travel right now and for business who are unable to travel that's why it's not just you i should say

00:41:00.460 there are other there are other applicants here who are being denied the right to see their family not

00:41:04.780 just to go on some vacation but to see their family to uh to do their work there are a lot of things

00:41:09.900 at play here yeah yeah so i'm just characterized because of my former involvement as first minister

00:41:16.700 in the constitution i'm characterized as the lead sort of applicant but there are other applicants

00:41:22.300 a part of this legal action that we're taking for the same reasons gave that obviously there are many

00:41:29.180 canadians who are being being affected personally and and business-wise as a result of these actions

00:41:36.300 which have not been justified under uh the section one the honorable brian peckford former premier of

00:41:44.140 newfoundland before it was newfoundland and labrador former premier of newfoundland uh brian peckford thank

00:41:48.540 you so much for your time and good luck with the case sir thank you very much brian peckford this has

00:41:53.740 been a stellar week for guests by the way last show i had ann kabuki and who i've already had many of

00:41:58.380 you actually i've had a few people say you should hire her at true north i think she has a lot on the go

00:42:02.460 right now but certainly she's welcome back anytime and brian peckford when i had him on the show some

00:42:07.660 months ago at some point last fall or something as well i had people saying you got to have him back

00:42:12.220 you got to have him back and his lawsuit against the federal government i think has been a great

00:42:16.540 opportunity to do that so happy to have brian here and happy to have all of you here we will have a

00:42:22.060 special edition of the show tomorrow with dr william gardner looking at the state of the conservative

00:42:27.820 movement in canada and on the weekend i'm headed to ottawa for the convoy we'll have reports from

00:42:33.020 there at true north and i'll have a full update for you when i get back next week on the andrew

00:42:38.300 lawton show so big times here thanks very much for sticking with us we will talk to you soon thank

00:42:42.540 you god bless and good day thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show support the program by

00:42:47.100 by donating to true north at www.tnc.news

Juno News - January 28, 2022

Trucker convoy proves the tide is turning against government overreach

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