Juno News - January 28, 2022


Trucker convoy proves the tide is turning against government overreach


Episode Stats

Length

42 minutes

Words per Minute

187.67009

Word Count

8,068

Sentence Count

208

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

11


Summary

The vaccine mandate convoy is too big to ignore, so now Justin Trudeau and the media are vilifying it. Plus, former Newfoundland Premier Brian Packford on his Charter challenge against the federal government. The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:06.680 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.660 Coming up, the convoy is too big to ignore, so now Justin Trudeau and the media are vilifying it,
00:00:18.560 plus former Newfoundland Premier Brian Packford on his charter challenge against the federal government.
00:00:25.900 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:30.000 Hello and welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.
00:00:35.800 This is Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show on Thursday, January 27th,
00:00:40.780 two days away from the great big convoy on its way as I speak to the nation's capital of Ottawa.
00:00:48.040 I'm going to be talking a little bit about the convoy,
00:00:50.060 and also I should tell you I'm going to be going to Ottawa for the convoy,
00:00:55.020 and that'll be a lot of fun. We'll have lots of reports from there on the weekend,
00:00:58.960 but I'll talk about that later on.
00:01:00.920 I do want to talk a little bit about what's coming up on the show today,
00:01:03.720 because later on we'll be speaking to Brian Packford, the former Premier of Newfoundland,
00:01:08.620 a repeat guest.
00:01:09.740 We've had him on the show before, and he had a very significant fan base of people that said,
00:01:15.480 you have to have him back on.
00:01:16.680 So we'll be talking to him about what he is doing to end the unscientific restrictions
00:01:21.760 that we have dominating the federal government's COVID response.
00:01:25.580 That's later on in the show.
00:01:27.140 But first, let's talk about the convoy, because originally,
00:01:30.220 and I think when I was talking about this two days ago,
00:01:32.900 the media was just starting to sort of pay attention,
00:01:36.960 but for the most part, the media was not giving the convoy all that much credit.
00:01:41.780 There was that silly story out in BC when CBC was reporting on a couple of dozen trucks
00:01:47.120 that were protesting road conditions,
00:01:49.180 while there was a much larger convoy that was headed to Ottawa
00:01:52.080 to protest vaccine mandates, among other things.
00:01:55.840 And now media has started covering it,
00:01:57.820 but you can tell that a lot of the political elites are very nervous about this,
00:02:01.780 because instead of ignoring it, it's so big that they can't do it,
00:02:05.040 they're just vilifying it now.
00:02:07.560 So the rhetoric has changed dramatically,
00:02:09.760 and all of the discussion about it is now,
00:02:12.420 oh, this is heading to be some January 6th event.
00:02:15.140 This is going to be some attempted coup on parliament buildings.
00:02:17.980 People trying to attribute violent motives to those in the convoy
00:02:22.480 before this thing has even happened, before anyone has got to Ottawa.
00:02:26.920 Now, let me say first off that this is not at all, in my view,
00:02:31.700 out of the realm of possibility that someone could do something bad.
00:02:35.220 And I think all of the organizers, all of the people supporting the convoy
00:02:38.600 need to condemn that when it happens.
00:02:40.780 I am supporting the convoy as a peaceful protest.
00:02:43.840 I'm supporting the convoy's message of opposing vaccine mandates,
00:02:47.800 but in general, taking a stand for freedom.
00:02:51.300 I unequivocally denounce anyone who uses this for whatever reason,
00:02:56.120 for any form of violence or illegality.
00:02:59.380 That is not what this is about.
00:03:00.920 And if it becomes that, I'll deal with that.
00:03:03.600 But a lot of the people, and you see this in the media coverage,
00:03:06.380 are hoping it will be violent.
00:03:09.200 They're hoping this will be the very worst case scenario.
00:03:12.940 My view on this is anytime we have thousands of people,
00:03:16.140 hundreds of thousands of people getting together,
00:03:18.860 expressing their political views safely,
00:03:21.060 even if I disagree with those views, that's a victory for a free society.
00:03:25.500 That's a victory for democracy.
00:03:28.020 I would never hope for the worst.
00:03:29.840 When Black Lives Matter protests were going on last year,
00:03:32.480 I wasn't sitting at home saying,
00:03:33.940 I hope it goes violent so I can use that to wedge my political opponents.
00:03:38.120 No, I say, great, they made a point as they have a right to do.
00:03:42.180 Those in the convoy are doing the same thing.
00:03:44.640 They are making a point because they have a right to do it.
00:03:47.080 And in this case, I think it is an incredibly important point.
00:03:51.300 All of the things that I've talked about in the last few weeks on this show,
00:03:54.460 about my pessimism, about where Canadians are on vaccine mandates,
00:03:58.720 on vaccine passports, that's starting to turn.
00:04:02.060 And one of the reasons I've been so motivated this week,
00:04:04.160 I've been tweeting nonstop, I've been writing columns,
00:04:06.140 doing shows, doing interviews.
00:04:07.300 One of the reasons is because for the first time in the pandemic,
00:04:11.280 I'm feeling optimistic.
00:04:13.960 I don't know why it is.
00:04:15.900 Well, I do know why it is, but I don't know why it's taken this long.
00:04:18.440 But for the first time, I'm feeling like things are turning.
00:04:22.300 Because what I'm seeing in my circles and outside my circles,
00:04:26.440 I really try to avoid being in an echo chamber,
00:04:28.800 is that there is a huge divide between how Ottawa,
00:04:32.140 how downtown Ottawa views and speaks about the convoy,
00:04:35.640 and how everyone else in the world familiar with it is doing it.
00:04:39.800 And I'm very deliberate when I say in the world.
00:04:43.260 And we'll go through some of the examples of this,
00:04:45.320 because the Parliamentary Press Gallery coverage has by and large been that
00:04:48.660 this is just, again, an attempted coup.
00:04:50.740 It's going to be Canada's January 6th incident.
00:04:53.200 But everyone else is saying this is great.
00:04:56.420 There's a reason that this has been on Fox News in the US,
00:04:59.380 GB News in the UK, Donald Trump Jr. did a video about it,
00:05:03.320 and people from Europe that are part of the protest movements against lockdowns
00:05:06.860 have been sharing this.
00:05:08.060 This is massive.
00:05:09.020 This is global now.
00:05:10.980 Because Canada is entering the big leagues as far as citizens that are taking a stand
00:05:15.100 for their rights.
00:05:17.560 And in a lot of ways, this is being more favorably viewed outside of Canada
00:05:21.260 than it is by the elites in Canada.
00:05:23.660 And I think that's very telling, because we are seeing something that's part of a global movement.
00:05:29.520 I did two days ago, I think, or maybe it was yesterday,
00:05:32.200 a 30-minute-long interview with an American radio station.
00:05:35.800 And it was a host I've known.
00:05:37.240 I've done some stuff with him in the past.
00:05:39.040 But he said his listeners were fascinated.
00:05:40.900 He's doing coverage of this every day.
00:05:42.980 He's in the US.
00:05:43.900 It doesn't really affect him all that much.
00:05:46.160 Certainly, it might affect some of his audience,
00:05:47.900 because American truckers are evidently affected by this vaccine mandate.
00:05:52.160 But there's a message that's being shared here
00:05:55.660 that is resonating with people,
00:05:58.280 that's managed to turn my pessimism into at least a glimmer of optimism
00:06:02.640 as we head into the weekend.
00:06:05.020 It's why I'm so thrilled to be going to Ottawa on the weekend to actually see this.
00:06:08.460 This is going to be historic one way or another.
00:06:11.040 Now, I should say, I don't buy most of the numbers that have been given.
00:06:14.820 People throw out numbers like,
00:06:16.200 oh, there are going to be a million people, 50,000.
00:06:18.660 I don't buy any of that.
00:06:19.780 But I think there are going to be a lot of people.
00:06:22.280 I think there are going to be thousands.
00:06:23.800 I don't know how many trucks.
00:06:25.320 I've seen reports that the convoy has stretched over 70 kilometers long.
00:06:29.900 I don't know what that is in trucks.
00:06:31.580 I don't know how many car lengths between them.
00:06:33.640 I have heard some reports that the Ontario-Manitoba border,
00:06:37.120 where they crossed Wednesday, I think it was,
00:06:39.520 there were about 900 trucks that crossed at that particular point.
00:06:43.840 Now, there are other routes.
00:06:45.020 People are coming from Windsor up the 401.
00:06:47.380 People are coming from Eastern Canada.
00:06:49.440 So who knows?
00:06:51.100 But the whole point is, we're not talking about nothing here.
00:06:54.080 And as I mentioned on the show the other day,
00:06:56.720 anyone who's spent any time in downtown Ottawa will know this will be noticed.
00:07:00.660 It might be just infuriating if you're trying to get around.
00:07:02.920 I feel bad if anyone has a meeting they have to get to in Ottawa.
00:07:05.660 Not that anyone in downtown Ottawa works on Saturday.
00:07:08.320 But you know what I mean?
00:07:09.060 It's going to be difficult to get around,
00:07:10.600 because this is going to be something that the city's infrastructure
00:07:13.560 is not designed to handle, but it's going to be noticed.
00:07:17.300 It's going to be seen, and it is making a point,
00:07:20.960 and that point is resonating.
00:07:22.200 And even if Justin Trudeau wants to diminish and denounce it,
00:07:26.040 that doesn't mean that ordinary people are not seeing it.
00:07:28.960 On that note, let's talk about Justin Trudeau's response.
00:07:32.160 Canadians have stepped up to protect each other,
00:07:35.900 to protect our frontline workers,
00:07:37.620 to protect our elders, to protect our young people,
00:07:39.720 to protect people like truckers who are putting food on our grocery store shelves.
00:07:46.160 Canadians have stepped up to do the right thing,
00:07:48.840 to protect the freedoms and the rights of Canadians
00:07:54.260 to get back to the things we love to do.
00:07:58.100 We know the way through this pandemic
00:08:02.080 is by getting everyone vaccinated.
00:08:06.540 And the overwhelming majority, close to 90% of Canadians,
00:08:11.520 have done exactly that.
00:08:14.780 The small fringe minority of people who are on their way to Ottawa
00:08:21.940 or who are holding unacceptable views that they are expressing
00:08:27.660 do not represent the views of Canadians
00:08:32.860 who have been there for each other,
00:08:35.320 who know that following the science
00:08:38.160 and stepping up to protect each other
00:08:41.160 is the best way to continue to ensure our freedoms,
00:08:45.180 our rights, our values as a country.
00:08:47.640 Ooh, unacceptable views.
00:08:50.220 Did you hear that?
00:08:50.800 That's what these are.
00:08:51.460 The people that are going to Ottawa have unacceptable views.
00:08:54.400 Well, what are those views?
00:08:55.300 What is this about?
00:08:56.020 I actually got a little bit of pushback on the show last week
00:08:59.780 because I said that this is a protest about vaccine mandates
00:09:02.340 first and foremost.
00:09:04.000 And I was clear to make the point
00:09:05.500 that it has become about something bigger.
00:09:07.860 But the genesis of this is truckers
00:09:09.740 affected by a mandate from the government
00:09:11.780 resisting that mandate.
00:09:13.200 That was the start.
00:09:14.200 That doesn't mean it hasn't ballooned beyond that.
00:09:16.740 But at its core,
00:09:18.000 the biggest threats to freedom right now
00:09:19.620 are coming in the form of vaccine mandates
00:09:21.860 and vaccine passports.
00:09:23.000 So I think it's fair to say
00:09:24.720 that this is a protest that yes,
00:09:26.200 is about freedom.
00:09:27.640 But the freedom to do what?
00:09:29.160 The freedom to live your life,
00:09:30.660 make your own decisions
00:09:31.520 and not have the government
00:09:32.800 outlaw your industry
00:09:33.960 or segregate you in society
00:09:35.780 and that all of these related things.
00:09:38.240 So this is unacceptable to Justin Trudeau.
00:09:41.880 Whatever happened to,
00:09:43.120 we must reach out.
00:09:44.200 Diversity is our strength,
00:09:45.380 not diversity of opinion,
00:09:46.580 mind you, clearly.
00:09:48.240 Or this tweet in 2020
00:09:50.060 when Justin Trudeau talked
00:09:51.460 at the beginning of the pandemic
00:09:52.820 when everyone was still clanging
00:09:53.980 their pots and pans
00:09:54.940 for essential workers
00:09:55.900 saying that we should all thank a trucker.
00:09:58.020 We should all be so grateful to the truckers.
00:10:00.460 And now the truckers are harboring
00:10:02.240 unacceptable views
00:10:04.040 as they head to Ottawa
00:10:05.380 to protest his government.
00:10:06.660 That's the message he's sending
00:10:08.000 that if you don't like him,
00:10:09.080 if you don't support
00:10:09.840 his handling of the pandemic,
00:10:11.420 that is just an unacceptable view.
00:10:14.480 Now, mind you,
00:10:15.020 unacceptable is still better
00:10:16.160 than racist, sexist, misogynist.
00:10:17.940 So at least the insults
00:10:19.080 are coming down a little bit.
00:10:21.280 I took aim on Tuesday
00:10:22.580 about Aaron O'Toole's
00:10:23.540 lack of response to this.
00:10:25.540 And I'm semi-pleased to report
00:10:28.180 there's been a bit of a response
00:10:29.740 from Aaron O'Toole.
00:10:30.620 Now, first off,
00:10:31.680 I want to talk about the response
00:10:32.820 from conservative members of parliament
00:10:34.380 because I listed a handful
00:10:36.060 on the last show
00:10:37.200 that had come out
00:10:37.940 that had seemingly broken ranks
00:10:39.560 with O'Toole's inability
00:10:41.140 or unwillingness to say
00:10:42.620 what he thought of the convoy.
00:10:44.060 And now I can't even list them all.
00:10:45.780 There are so many.
00:10:46.620 There are people like John Barlow
00:10:47.900 and Leslyn Lewis
00:10:48.840 and Andrew Scheer
00:10:50.340 and Pierre Polyev
00:10:51.500 and Bob Zimmer.
00:10:53.200 These are just names
00:10:54.220 that just happened
00:10:55.180 to come across my desk recently.
00:10:57.040 But so many members
00:10:58.280 of the conservatives
00:10:58.920 are getting behind this.
00:11:00.980 A lot of them
00:11:01.520 are going to be there.
00:11:02.440 A lot of them have seen
00:11:03.120 the convoy off
00:11:03.940 as it's gone through their town.
00:11:05.600 Aaron O'Toole,
00:11:06.420 I thought,
00:11:07.000 would do a video
00:11:07.720 or something.
00:11:09.380 He did an op-ed
00:11:10.320 in the Toronto Sun.
00:11:11.700 Now,
00:11:12.280 I'm going to try
00:11:13.260 to be generous here.
00:11:15.380 But I have to point out
00:11:16.540 that he did not use
00:11:17.600 the word convoy
00:11:18.680 once in the story.
00:11:20.540 So this is a column
00:11:21.560 about the truckers,
00:11:22.480 about the protests,
00:11:23.680 but he didn't use
00:11:24.620 the word convoy,
00:11:25.680 which I don't think
00:11:26.740 is an oversight.
00:11:27.460 I think it's deliberate.
00:11:28.280 He talked about it
00:11:29.100 in more general terms
00:11:30.560 about those coming
00:11:31.620 to Ottawa right now,
00:11:32.760 the truckers coming
00:11:33.520 to Ottawa.
00:11:34.320 And he says that,
00:11:35.360 you know,
00:11:35.560 the pandemic's tough,
00:11:36.500 yada, yada, yada.
00:11:37.140 You have to get down
00:11:37.680 to like paragraph,
00:11:38.580 I don't know,
00:11:38.900 nine or ten
00:11:39.420 or something like that
00:11:40.260 before he says
00:11:41.460 that truckers plan
00:11:43.220 to be in Ottawa
00:11:43.740 to protest the policy.
00:11:45.080 He says they've been
00:11:45.900 through a lot
00:11:46.480 so you can understand
00:11:47.580 why they are protesting.
00:11:49.520 He says Canadians
00:11:50.280 have a right to be heard,
00:11:51.580 not just in an election,
00:11:53.600 but at all times,
00:11:54.700 especially in these
00:11:55.700 extraordinary circumstances.
00:11:57.780 Thousands of Canadians
00:11:58.780 have spent their hard-earned money
00:12:00.280 to come to Ottawa.
00:12:01.540 Any reasonable concerns
00:12:02.960 must be heard.
00:12:04.260 They have a right to be heard.
00:12:06.180 And then he says,
00:12:07.060 which is fair,
00:12:07.760 that he condemns anyone
00:12:08.920 that tries to exploit
00:12:10.120 this movement
00:12:10.720 to put a violent
00:12:12.020 or hateful
00:12:12.900 or threatening tone.
00:12:14.620 He says hate
00:12:15.120 and bigotry have no place.
00:12:16.720 He loves the country.
00:12:17.880 It upsets him
00:12:18.620 that some people
00:12:19.260 might try to shoehorn
00:12:21.100 violent motives into this.
00:12:22.980 And I think that's fair.
00:12:24.040 I think he needs
00:12:24.700 to put that on the record
00:12:25.600 because obviously
00:12:26.240 he wants some distance
00:12:27.600 between him and this
00:12:28.400 if it goes wrong.
00:12:30.180 But he says
00:12:31.180 they have a right to be heard
00:12:32.520 and they should be heard.
00:12:34.240 It's not exactly
00:12:35.140 a statement of support
00:12:36.200 but at least it's something.
00:12:37.960 At least he's not
00:12:38.680 condemning and vilifying
00:12:40.140 which, by the way,
00:12:41.380 is more likely
00:12:42.220 to cause there to be
00:12:43.120 a violent outcome
00:12:44.280 than anything else.
00:12:45.640 The rhetoric
00:12:46.080 that people like
00:12:46.740 Justin Trudeau
00:12:47.420 and NDP leader
00:12:48.400 Jagmeet Singh
00:12:49.140 are heaping on this
00:12:50.540 is more likely
00:12:51.440 to inflame tensions
00:12:52.540 than anything else.
00:12:54.760 But again,
00:12:55.400 here's my message
00:12:56.260 to anyone who's part
00:12:57.180 of this convoy
00:12:57.860 either officially
00:12:58.540 or unofficially.
00:12:59.640 If you stoop
00:13:00.680 to the level
00:13:01.200 the left wants you
00:13:02.020 to stoop to,
00:13:02.940 all you do
00:13:03.840 is give them a win.
00:13:05.760 It's wrong.
00:13:06.760 It's first and foremost wrong.
00:13:08.180 It's morally wrong
00:13:08.880 on its own.
00:13:09.540 But even politically
00:13:10.420 it is not helping
00:13:11.400 your cause
00:13:11.980 in any way whatsoever.
00:13:13.460 It's giving them the win.
00:13:14.680 So do not go there
00:13:15.640 whatsoever
00:13:16.040 and I will not hesitate
00:13:17.240 to condemn and denounce
00:13:18.180 preemptively
00:13:18.820 and after the fact as well
00:13:20.360 if such a thing happens.
00:13:22.960 But I note
00:13:23.520 that it's only the right
00:13:24.480 that's forced to answer
00:13:25.740 for the worst
00:13:26.580 of its movements.
00:13:28.020 It's only the right
00:13:28.700 that's forced to do that.
00:13:30.320 I gotta share
00:13:31.080 this is hilarious
00:13:32.200 in a way
00:13:33.020 but still shameful.
00:13:34.120 This was a report
00:13:35.100 in Parliament Today
00:13:36.880 which is a Parliament Hill
00:13:38.240 focused publication
00:13:39.220 that came out yesterday
00:13:40.880 and they quoted
00:13:42.120 a national security expert
00:13:44.300 and I use the word expert
00:13:45.460 in a very loose sense there
00:13:47.100 saying that
00:13:47.700 anyone who donated
00:13:48.740 to the GoFundMe
00:13:49.660 which has reached
00:13:50.400 millions and millions
00:13:51.360 of dollars now
00:13:51.960 I'm not even going to give
00:13:52.560 a number
00:13:52.880 because it'll change
00:13:53.680 by the time
00:13:54.200 I finish recording
00:13:55.240 could be strung up
00:13:56.860 on terrorism financing charges.
00:14:00.480 That's the messaging
00:14:02.420 the media is putting out here.
00:14:03.600 The quote is that
00:14:04.460 those who have donated
00:14:06.260 to groups in support
00:14:07.180 of the ongoing truck rallies
00:14:08.300 could be found guilty
00:14:09.440 under the criminal code
00:14:10.540 as they directly
00:14:11.980 or indirectly
00:14:12.800 could provide
00:14:13.660 financial services
00:14:14.860 intended to carry out
00:14:16.600 any terrorist activity
00:14:18.140 or benefit such a group.
00:14:20.340 So, you know,
00:14:21.260 I just imagine
00:14:22.200 that if you do
00:14:23.160 get strung up for this
00:14:24.040 it's going to make
00:14:24.480 for some very awkward
00:14:25.300 conversations
00:14:26.020 in the jail cell
00:14:27.440 because you're going
00:14:27.940 to be beside a guy
00:14:28.760 who smuggled arms
00:14:29.920 to ISIS
00:14:30.540 and he's going to be like
00:14:31.880 oh yeah,
00:14:32.420 what are you in for?
00:14:33.140 Smuggling arms to ISIS too?
00:14:34.420 And you'll be like
00:14:34.880 no, I gave $10 to a trucker.
00:14:38.760 Yeah, that's basically
00:14:40.220 where things are now.
00:14:41.200 So, if you donated
00:14:42.440 to the GoFundMe
00:14:43.240 be careful
00:14:43.780 the RCMP could be coming
00:14:44.960 for you
00:14:45.440 because according
00:14:46.360 to this national security expert
00:14:48.280 quoted in the media
00:14:49.420 you are a terror financier
00:14:51.780 or should I say
00:14:52.680 you are potentially
00:14:53.700 a terror financier.
00:14:55.300 You could potentially
00:14:56.120 be charged.
00:14:56.820 You've got to
00:14:57.320 leave yourself
00:14:58.540 some wiggle room there.
00:14:59.960 But this is what
00:15:00.680 we're up against.
00:15:01.360 Global News ran a story
00:15:02.520 as well in which
00:15:03.220 they focused on this
00:15:04.100 as being this
00:15:05.280 far-right hate movement
00:15:06.980 and they say
00:15:07.640 even in the story
00:15:08.740 that well,
00:15:09.160 it's not everyone.
00:15:10.080 I mean,
00:15:10.260 but why focus on that?
00:15:12.180 Why are you defining
00:15:13.240 the whole
00:15:13.900 based on the minority?
00:15:15.940 Why are you defining
00:15:16.600 the whole
00:15:17.280 based on
00:15:19.100 what is very clearly
00:15:20.520 an outlier?
00:15:21.280 The organizers
00:15:21.860 have condemned it.
00:15:22.640 They've said
00:15:23.080 if you want to
00:15:23.960 put any violence
00:15:25.000 into this,
00:15:25.540 stay home.
00:15:26.080 We do not want you here.
00:15:27.680 This is not
00:15:28.300 what we're about.
00:15:29.720 And that to me
00:15:30.620 is an entirely
00:15:31.360 saleable point.
00:15:32.520 I think it's the most
00:15:33.080 important point of this.
00:15:34.840 So this is a peaceful
00:15:36.680 protest through and through
00:15:37.980 and it should remain that.
00:15:40.260 And the critics
00:15:41.580 are not warning
00:15:42.800 because they're trying
00:15:43.880 to protect public safety.
00:15:45.140 They're warning
00:15:45.540 because they're trying
00:15:46.220 to delegitimize
00:15:47.020 a movement
00:15:47.700 that is gaining steam
00:15:49.480 and threatening
00:15:50.280 their ironclad grip
00:15:52.780 on public opinion.
00:15:56.160 That's what's
00:15:56.840 happening here.
00:15:57.440 Justin Trudeau
00:15:58.060 doesn't like
00:15:58.760 that the tide
00:15:59.660 may be turning.
00:16:00.460 People may not be
00:16:01.360 all of a sudden
00:16:02.060 fans of lockdowns
00:16:03.200 and vaccine mandates.
00:16:04.780 So all he can do
00:16:06.060 is scapegoat
00:16:06.880 this group
00:16:07.600 that's making a point
00:16:08.980 that more and more
00:16:09.900 Canadians are agreeing with.
00:16:11.340 You look at
00:16:11.960 some of the footage
00:16:12.600 of people lining
00:16:13.540 the streets,
00:16:14.320 lining the overpasses.
00:16:15.860 There was a video
00:16:16.480 I came across
00:16:17.220 of a bunch of women.
00:16:18.020 I don't even know
00:16:18.380 what town it was.
00:16:19.040 They were making
00:16:19.500 sandwiches for the truckers
00:16:20.780 while singing
00:16:21.620 O Canada.
00:16:22.940 And I said on Twitter
00:16:23.940 I didn't know
00:16:24.460 what people would find
00:16:25.260 more triggering
00:16:25.880 that they sang
00:16:26.500 the O Canada lyrics
00:16:27.540 with sons in it
00:16:29.080 or that it was
00:16:30.020 women making
00:16:30.660 sandwiches for men.
00:16:32.200 I didn't know
00:16:32.580 which would be
00:16:33.380 more off-putting
00:16:34.560 to people.
00:16:35.080 But this is a movement.
00:16:37.420 This is a movement
00:16:38.600 and it's one
00:16:39.300 that's growing.
00:16:40.140 And I don't know
00:16:40.560 what it's going to look
00:16:41.080 like on Ottawa.
00:16:41.720 I don't know
00:16:42.040 what the final tally
00:16:42.860 is going to be.
00:16:43.680 Getting people
00:16:44.140 to stand out
00:16:44.700 in the cold
00:16:45.180 in Ottawa
00:16:45.740 at the end of January
00:16:47.000 is difficult
00:16:48.140 but people are
00:16:48.860 prepared to do that.
00:16:50.420 And it's not just
00:16:51.040 about truckers.
00:16:51.720 There are hundreds
00:16:52.220 of sedans
00:16:53.020 pickup trucks
00:16:54.140 that are non-commercial
00:16:55.180 farm vehicles
00:16:55.980 of people taking
00:16:56.760 some time off
00:16:57.440 that are joining
00:16:58.280 this convoy.
00:16:59.100 It isn't just
00:16:59.560 big rigs.
00:17:00.860 And to be honest
00:17:01.660 while the
00:17:02.100 again the genesis
00:17:03.080 of this was
00:17:03.960 about the stuff
00:17:05.620 that truckers
00:17:06.380 are facing
00:17:06.980 it has become
00:17:08.860 about so much more.
00:17:10.760 It has become
00:17:11.480 about so much more
00:17:12.200 and I think
00:17:12.920 will continue
00:17:13.560 to be.
00:17:14.220 And interestingly
00:17:14.780 enough a lot
00:17:15.340 has been made
00:17:15.760 about the fact
00:17:16.220 that the Canadian
00:17:16.960 Trucking Alliance
00:17:18.060 which is the
00:17:19.340 no I don't want
00:17:20.420 to say official
00:17:21.020 but more of
00:17:21.800 one of the
00:17:22.100 established groups
00:17:23.900 representing truckers
00:17:24.900 they've actually
00:17:25.620 said that they
00:17:26.780 condemn this.
00:17:27.480 They've said
00:17:27.740 it doesn't
00:17:28.120 represent them
00:17:28.880 the majority
00:17:29.320 of truckers
00:17:29.780 are vaccinated
00:17:30.340 and that's that.
00:17:31.400 And whatever
00:17:31.900 you think of
00:17:32.360 their position
00:17:32.840 that's their
00:17:33.320 position.
00:17:33.920 But they do
00:17:34.940 not represent
00:17:35.660 truckers
00:17:36.260 we're seeing.
00:17:37.180 They don't
00:17:37.440 represent all
00:17:37.960 truckers I should
00:17:38.560 say and it's
00:17:38.980 very much
00:17:39.400 like teachers
00:17:40.240 unions.
00:17:40.580 We get messages
00:17:41.300 all the time
00:17:41.820 from teachers
00:17:42.300 union members
00:17:43.580 saying you know
00:17:44.520 what my union
00:17:45.040 said about this
00:17:45.700 doesn't represent
00:17:46.380 me and so on
00:17:47.780 and so forth.
00:17:48.860 And also I would
00:17:50.080 say other groups
00:17:50.640 are coming out
00:17:51.420 against it like
00:17:51.960 the Canadian
00:17:52.520 Federation of
00:17:53.520 Independent Business
00:17:54.320 CFIB.
00:17:55.160 They've said
00:17:55.860 that they're
00:17:56.320 opposed to the
00:17:56.960 trucker vaccine
00:17:57.640 mandate.
00:17:58.460 So they're doing
00:17:59.060 a better job I
00:17:59.860 think representing
00:18:00.600 the diversity of
00:18:01.500 opinions in the
00:18:02.420 trucking industry
00:18:03.200 than the group
00:18:04.360 that's supposed
00:18:04.880 to represent the
00:18:05.880 trucking industry
00:18:06.640 itself is doing.
00:18:08.560 One point I'll
00:18:09.400 make before I
00:18:10.460 wrap up this
00:18:11.300 segment is that
00:18:12.540 there are going
00:18:13.420 to be a lot of
00:18:14.020 people and we're
00:18:14.520 seeing this right
00:18:15.120 now in the
00:18:15.580 conservative movement
00:18:16.480 Aaron O'Toole
00:18:17.240 wouldn't take a
00:18:18.320 position when he
00:18:19.080 finally did it was
00:18:20.240 a lukewarm
00:18:21.160 position at least
00:18:22.140 he's not condemning
00:18:22.980 but his caucus
00:18:24.000 members as
00:18:24.800 mentioned earlier
00:18:25.520 including again
00:18:26.520 high-ranking
00:18:27.180 people the deputy
00:18:27.920 leader of the
00:18:28.580 conservatives even
00:18:29.300 Candace Bergen
00:18:30.080 have been very
00:18:31.120 clear that they
00:18:32.760 support the message
00:18:33.580 and I think
00:18:34.240 they've also been
00:18:34.980 clear indirectly
00:18:36.540 that they're not
00:18:38.520 following O'Toole's
00:18:39.820 lead anymore
00:18:40.380 they're not
00:18:40.860 waiting for O'Toole
00:18:41.700 to decide what to
00:18:42.580 do and going
00:18:43.280 whichever way he
00:18:43.960 goes and I think
00:18:44.720 that's been the
00:18:45.320 big story that we'll
00:18:46.200 be enduring beyond
00:18:47.140 the convoy here
00:18:48.000 it's no surprise
00:18:49.240 that there have
00:18:49.820 been several
00:18:50.380 electoral district
00:18:51.380 associations so
00:18:52.440 the local
00:18:53.520 conservative chapters
00:18:54.560 if you will this
00:18:55.740 week that have
00:18:56.420 called for early
00:18:57.480 leadership reviews I
00:18:58.560 think there have
00:18:59.020 been four or five
00:18:59.840 of them now there
00:19:00.820 could be some more
00:19:01.740 as this gathers a
00:19:02.740 bit of momentum
00:19:03.280 so local
00:19:04.720 conservative
00:19:05.440 grassroots groups
00:19:06.460 that are saying
00:19:07.100 you know what we
00:19:07.980 want to have a say
00:19:08.920 on O'Toole's
00:19:09.420 leadership not in
00:19:10.160 2023 but right
00:19:11.700 now by no later
00:19:13.500 than June was what
00:19:14.280 I think one of the
00:19:14.900 letters or all of
00:19:16.020 the letters that
00:19:16.560 these groups signed
00:19:17.380 was saying so
00:19:19.640 that's going to be
00:19:20.580 a big problem for
00:19:22.060 O'Toole now the
00:19:22.880 Globe and Mail and
00:19:23.860 the mainstream media
00:19:24.520 they're saying that
00:19:25.100 O'Toole needs to
00:19:25.740 just run so far
00:19:26.540 away from this they
00:19:27.180 don't want there to
00:19:27.740 be any daylight between
00:19:29.180 Aaron O'Toole's
00:19:29.880 position and Justin
00:19:31.060 Trudeau's position
00:19:31.940 the Globe said he's
00:19:33.540 going to get run over
00:19:34.480 unless he distances
00:19:35.440 himself and condemns
00:19:36.600 the convoy but that's
00:19:38.560 the message is that
00:19:39.300 these people are
00:19:40.040 unworthy of being
00:19:41.040 heard these people
00:19:42.160 don't have a right to
00:19:42.940 process and more
00:19:43.680 importantly that no
00:19:44.880 one has a right to
00:19:45.600 tell the government
00:19:46.160 hey you don't get to
00:19:47.180 make decisions about
00:19:48.080 our bodies about our
00:19:49.020 health care that you're
00:19:49.960 not allowed to say
00:19:50.680 that to the government
00:19:51.300 if you say that it is
00:19:52.600 just in Justin
00:19:53.420 Trudeau's immortal
00:19:54.100 words unacceptable
00:19:55.520 we've got to wrap
00:19:57.180 things up for this
00:19:57.980 segment we'll be back
00:19:58.760 in a couple of
00:19:59.260 moments with a
00:19:59.760 can't miss interview
00:20:00.460 with former Newfoundland
00:20:02.060 Premier Brian Peckford
00:20:03.460 stay tuned
00:20:04.060 welcome back
00:20:13.640 well obviously some of
00:20:14.680 the people who wanted
00:20:15.560 to go to Ottawa for
00:20:16.680 the big rally have not
00:20:18.140 been able to if they
00:20:19.140 had to fly to get there
00:20:20.240 not everyone has a big
00:20:21.800 rig or can take the
00:20:22.600 time to drive across
00:20:23.820 the country and that's
00:20:25.160 because there still is in
00:20:26.280 effect right now a
00:20:27.200 vaccine mandate for air
00:20:28.840 travel no end in sight
00:20:30.480 to this no willingness
00:20:31.720 from Justin Trudeau to
00:20:32.880 ease up on this even as
00:20:34.520 we've moved to the
00:20:35.240 Omicron era in which
00:20:36.980 whether you're
00:20:37.480 vaccinated or unvaccinated
00:20:38.880 doesn't seem to have
00:20:39.760 too much of an effect
00:20:40.600 and whether you're going
00:20:41.600 to catch or spread
00:20:42.780 Omicron so what's
00:20:44.340 happening now is people
00:20:45.920 are fed up with this
00:20:46.960 air travel vaccine
00:20:48.020 mandate that like
00:20:48.820 anything else is
00:20:49.900 looking like it's going
00:20:50.800 to be this indefinite
00:20:52.200 measure that we never
00:20:53.620 really get rid of much
00:20:54.600 like the vaccine
00:20:55.280 passport much like a lot
00:20:57.060 of the other
00:20:57.620 restrictions there's a
00:20:58.960 big challenge that was
00:20:59.960 launched this week in
00:21:01.600 federal court by Brian
00:21:03.040 Peckford and other
00:21:04.440 applicants as well but
00:21:05.580 Brian Peckford is notable
00:21:06.820 because he is the former
00:21:08.180 premier of Newfoundland
00:21:09.680 he's also the last
00:21:11.640 surviving of the
00:21:12.980 crafters of the
00:21:14.620 Charter of Rights and
00:21:15.680 Freedoms of the
00:21:16.420 Constitution Act of 1982
00:21:18.540 he's the last living of
00:21:20.100 those premiers that
00:21:20.980 were negotiating and
00:21:22.300 adopting in 1980s and
00:21:24.260 ultimately in 1982 the
00:21:26.120 document that now forms
00:21:27.440 the backbone of
00:21:28.500 Canadian rights and
00:21:29.780 freedoms and or is
00:21:31.300 supposed to anyway we'll
00:21:32.340 get to that in a little
00:21:33.220 bit but why this is
00:21:34.480 important is because
00:21:35.240 Brian Peckford is filing
00:21:36.620 a charter challenge he's
00:21:38.040 saying that the
00:21:38.480 government is ignoring
00:21:39.940 the charter that is the
00:21:41.740 linchpin in his legacy
00:21:43.000 as a premier I'll let him
00:21:45.240 explain exactly why that
00:21:46.620 is Brian Peckford joins me
00:21:48.000 now the Honorable Brian
00:21:49.200 Peckford it's good to
00:21:50.260 speak to you sir thanks
00:21:51.000 very much for your time
00:21:51.840 today
00:21:52.140 yeah thank you for having
00:21:53.720 me now we talked last
00:21:55.920 time it's nearly 40 years
00:21:58.040 since the Canadian
00:21:59.160 Charter of Rights and
00:22:00.140 Freedoms was adopted
00:22:01.180 since the Constitution was
00:22:03.080 brought home as they say
00:22:04.320 and you're now taking the
00:22:05.980 government to court for
00:22:06.920 violating the very
00:22:08.160 charter in which you were
00:22:09.160 instrumental in passing
00:22:10.280 why
00:22:11.000 yeah I think this is
00:22:13.300 rather historic I don't
00:22:14.660 know of any other first
00:22:15.620 minister in the history of
00:22:16.800 Canada who's taken the
00:22:18.720 federal government to court
00:22:19.660 over something that that
00:22:20.720 first minister had a hand in
00:22:22.180 creating and writing and
00:22:24.440 why I'm doing it Andrew is
00:22:25.960 because over the series of
00:22:28.320 months since I talked to
00:22:29.640 you and before even that you
00:22:31.940 know I've been watching as
00:22:33.120 many Canadians have with
00:22:34.440 great alarm as the
00:22:36.320 governments have moved more
00:22:37.700 and more in the field of
00:22:40.180 restricting individual rights
00:22:41.740 and freedoms and of course
00:22:42.960 the Charter of Rights and
00:22:44.500 Freedoms is very dear to my
00:22:45.840 heart being one of those who
00:22:47.280 was involved in creating it
00:22:49.320 and I've issued many
00:22:52.120 statements I've done very
00:22:53.740 many interviews 50 or 60
00:22:55.820 interviews across the
00:22:56.920 country and I've done a lot
00:22:59.380 of public meetings and so on
00:23:00.720 and I've heard from an awful
00:23:01.700 lot of people and a lot of
00:23:03.720 them agree with me that if we
00:23:05.300 don't win and the and the
00:23:08.840 Constitution and the Charter's
00:23:10.980 honored this time round this
00:23:12.920 will establish a precedent which
00:23:14.560 will dilute the power of the
00:23:17.480 Charter next time round and
00:23:19.560 therefore it's going to be
00:23:21.320 this erosion of our
00:23:22.240 individual rights and
00:23:23.200 freedoms and I guess a lot
00:23:25.420 of people would say the
00:23:27.860 violation of our individual
00:23:30.160 rights are not is not
00:23:32.300 justified even under section
00:23:34.120 one of the of the Charter my
00:23:36.420 argument of course is that
00:23:37.960 section one doesn't even
00:23:38.940 apply because I remember well
00:23:41.380 that section one was
00:23:42.280 supposed to apply when the
00:23:44.320 state was in peril the state
00:23:46.420 is not in in peril and we had
00:23:48.340 alternatives as left-hand
00:23:50.260 Colonel Redman has pointed out
00:23:52.120 as early treatment the doctors
00:23:55.340 have pointed out right we've
00:23:56.800 we've had alternatives to doing
00:23:58.760 this to Great Barrington
00:23:59.660 Declaration so it's not like we
00:24:01.540 didn't have alternatives so my
00:24:03.440 point is the end of my
00:24:04.900 individual right as a Canadian
00:24:07.460 to travel freely in this country
00:24:10.380 has been severely curtailed
00:24:12.420 without justification and it's
00:24:14.800 necessary for me as one Canadian
00:24:16.600 and the one person who's been
00:24:18.140 involved in the the Charter
00:24:20.000 Rights and Freedoms to stand up
00:24:21.580 for the individual Canadian
00:24:23.540 before we get to the bigger
00:24:25.900 picture and also to section one
00:24:27.700 which I'm glad you've raised
00:24:28.880 there let's talk about what your
00:24:30.180 complaint is because
00:24:31.080 specifically you're taking issue
00:24:33.080 with the vaccine mandate that
00:24:34.840 Justin Trudeau put in place in
00:24:36.200 October that says you cannot board
00:24:38.220 a plane at any commercial airport
00:24:40.580 in Canada unless you are fully
00:24:42.560 vaccinated which also means you
00:24:44.200 can't fly from Vancouver to
00:24:46.500 Halifax say but but more
00:24:48.300 importantly it means you can't fly
00:24:49.780 from Toronto to England or
00:24:52.600 Toronto to somewhere else in the
00:24:54.820 world that perhaps doesn't have a
00:24:56.200 vaccine mandate which
00:24:57.760 effectively landlocks Canadians
00:25:00.280 especially now that the United
00:25:01.640 States has put in a vaccine
00:25:03.160 mandate for its land border here
00:25:05.460 so your complaint I'm assuming is
00:25:07.720 that the mobility rights that
00:25:09.060 every Canadian has the right to
00:25:10.640 enter remain in or leave Canada
00:25:12.780 are being just completely
00:25:14.420 obliterated by this mandate
00:25:16.100 correct no question it's section
00:25:18.220 six of the of the Charter in
00:25:20.300 which it says every Canadian has
00:25:21.940 the right to travel anywhere in
00:25:23.740 Canada or leave Canada that's a
00:25:26.320 fundamental right that every
00:25:28.420 Canadian has as a result of the
00:25:30.000 Charter and so there's no
00:25:31.680 question listen Canada is a
00:25:34.140 nation of motion you know from
00:25:36.240 the Mackenzie River to the St.
00:25:37.700 Lawrence River to our explorers to
00:25:40.700 our later bush pilots to the CN and
00:25:43.020 CP moving across the nation these
00:25:45.580 movements were all part of creating
00:25:48.400 Canada as we know it today without
00:25:50.200 that rail line coming west you know
00:25:52.580 who knows whether what kind of a
00:25:55.080 country we would have today and so
00:25:57.580 movement and travel are integral to
00:26:01.120 who we are as Canadians and in
00:26:02.920 creating the country and that
00:26:04.500 history is very important that was
00:26:06.880 solidified in the Charter of Rights
00:26:09.140 and Freedoms and and so therefore
00:26:10.680 it's extremely important and as you
00:26:12.740 say it also to leave Canada as well
00:26:15.720 that's part of that mobility right and
00:26:17.880 so it has severely restricted I have
00:26:20.760 law firms calling me from all over
00:26:22.280 Canada about and industry by the way
00:26:26.020 industry lawyers who are saying they
00:26:28.000 want to go to court and they want to
00:26:30.040 challenge the federal government as
00:26:31.300 relates to this business of the
00:26:33.900 mobility because it's now hurting our
00:26:36.080 industry it's hurting industries in
00:26:38.060 Canada in their ability to do to do
00:26:40.840 business so it's extremely important
00:26:43.520 and there's been no cost benefit
00:26:45.280 analysis done to show that that
00:26:47.960 getting aboard a plane is any more
00:26:49.680 dangerous than going to Walmart you
00:26:51.400 know so this whole business of this
00:26:54.060 restriction has been done without
00:26:55.900 justification even if section one of
00:26:58.200 the Constitution apply one of the
00:27:00.940 interesting things about it is that no
00:27:03.400 one even at the height of the pandemic
00:27:05.140 when the border was closed no Canadian
00:27:06.940 could be denied entry to their own
00:27:09.420 country this is the fundamental right
00:27:11.220 of citizenship the government could make
00:27:13.080 it difficult for you like demanding
00:27:14.580 pre-arrival tests and quarantine but
00:27:16.560 but no Canadian could be prevented from
00:27:18.600 entering and when they put the flight
00:27:20.620 vaccine mandate in place one thing I
00:27:22.840 noted was that they didn't put the
00:27:25.280 mandate in place for getting on a
00:27:26.760 plane to Canada so in in a way the
00:27:29.700 government was acknowledging that this
00:27:31.880 charter right exists acknowledging that
00:27:33.780 you can't prevent Canadians from
00:27:35.620 entering their country but they're not
00:27:37.280 as concerned with it on the other side
00:27:38.800 of it traveling within the country or
00:27:40.620 exiting the country well I think both
00:27:43.360 those points are extremely important
00:27:45.320 and perhaps most important of those two
00:27:48.020 is traveling within your own country I
00:27:50.420 mean your family business and so on from
00:27:52.800 one province to another making it more
00:27:54.800 different for example the truckers
00:27:56.180 convoy right now they wanted me to come
00:28:01.180 to Ottawa to speak well how am I going to
00:28:03.100 get to Ottawa to speak you know you'd have
00:28:06.220 to rent a big rig yeah and so it would be
00:28:09.060 very very difficult for me to be able to do
00:28:11.040 that given my other business activities
00:28:13.360 right now my other personal activities in
00:28:16.600 in having interviews like this I'm busy
00:28:19.320 all day long from 8 to 11 I'm doing
00:28:21.860 interviews and doing public meetings and
00:28:24.560 and the like and doing speeches online so
00:28:27.060 it completely inhibits my ability as a
00:28:29.940 Canadian and I know there's hundreds and
00:28:31.660 thousands like me and then of course
00:28:33.540 exactly the discriminatory nature of it in
00:28:36.860 yes out no I mean that does not make sense
00:28:39.780 it's not consistent with any kind of law or
00:28:42.540 reason that one can think about but I come I
00:28:46.220 woke up this morning thinking about our
00:28:47.840 history and and that was the phrase sort of
00:28:50.220 that came up with a nation in motion we are
00:28:53.420 have been ever since first peoples right a
00:28:56.920 nation in motion they've lived off the
00:28:59.160 rivers they lived off the coastline they
00:29:01.000 lived and moving in canoes and other sea
00:29:03.920 craft right we're a nation in motion the
00:29:06.700 Mackenzie River you know it's an operating river
00:29:09.360 every day right the Yukon River right the
00:29:12.260 same confederation confederation itself
00:29:14.420 Brian you've relocated to British Columbia
00:29:16.520 BC only joined confederation because of
00:29:19.420 the promise by John A Macdonald of that
00:29:21.200 trans-continental railway that was the
00:29:23.620 only reason they they joined the country
00:29:25.440 so because there was an importance of
00:29:27.500 moving people from and goods from one
00:29:29.700 side to the other and now you couldn't
00:29:32.080 board that train John A Macdonald could
00:29:33.860 not board that intercontinental train to
00:29:35.680 go to BC if he weren't vaccinated
00:29:37.380 absolutely and this is a complete
00:29:40.260 abdication of government's responsibility
00:29:43.140 in urban that's the argument we'll be
00:29:44.860 making before the court of course we have
00:29:46.980 to argue that before the court and and
00:29:49.460 persuade them to sustain our right of
00:29:53.040 of travel over the other concerns that
00:29:56.520 the government may have which have not
00:29:58.780 been completely articulated and I think
00:30:00.680 this is where our argument has a lot of
00:30:03.300 merit is because on the other side on the
00:30:06.300 travel ban when it was instituted there
00:30:08.860 was no argument made as to why they were
00:30:11.340 bringing it in except that they had to
00:30:13.340 bring it in because it was going to affect
00:30:15.900 the transmission of the virus at the same
00:30:18.060 time as they were knowingly been informed
00:30:21.660 they've just been informed in the last few
00:30:23.820 months that vaccinated people receive the
00:30:27.500 virus and transmit the revirus just the same
00:30:30.300 as unvaccinated people do so their whole
00:30:32.780 health argument seems to be crumbling and
00:30:35.260 therefore to continue to insist upon this
00:30:38.140 kind of restriction on our freedoms does not
00:30:40.780 seem to us to be justified
00:30:42.620 let me ask you then about the internal
00:30:45.340 mobility here brian because one of the
00:30:47.660 responses that people would give is well
00:30:49.820 there's nothing stopping you from driving
00:30:51.500 your your right to go from BC to Ontario
00:30:54.540 hasn't been harmed because you could get in
00:30:56.540 a car and go it might take more time but
00:30:58.460 but your ability to do it still exists and what
00:31:01.420 is the response to that
00:31:02.940 there's a number of responses to that not
00:31:04.860 not the least of which is is that the whole
00:31:07.180 uh concept of of modern uh progression of
00:31:11.740 becoming modern so you you want to select what
00:31:15.100 is no longer modern in our society and and
00:31:18.540 constrict that by by some medical uh condition
00:31:22.140 right there it sort of flies in the face of our
00:31:25.740 natural thought of moving ahead as a country
00:31:29.580 and and progressing as a country right
00:31:31.740 i i find that very offensive the other thing
00:31:34.860 is of course it makes it more difficult
00:31:37.580 they're constricting the manner in which i can
00:31:40.940 travel right and the whole idea of the
00:31:43.660 mobility uh right is your right to travel in
00:31:48.060 canada full stop it doesn't say by car
00:31:50.540 by plane by train or by boat right it is a
00:31:54.620 general right of every canadian and so
00:31:58.060 by restricting which way i can travel
00:32:01.340 that interferes with that freedom
00:32:04.780 yeah and i guess the extension to that even
00:32:06.860 leaving the country there's nothing legally
00:32:08.700 stopping you from you know getting a canoe
00:32:11.260 and taking the mckenzie river all the way to
00:32:13.180 the pacific and then perhaps canoeing your way
00:32:15.500 to tuvalu or something but but in reality the
00:32:18.220 practical means of travel is uh is something that
00:32:21.340 takes place by air and when the government takes
00:32:23.980 that off the table they they do effectively
00:32:26.380 tell canadians they aren't allowed to travel
00:32:28.140 to say nothing of people that live on on islands
00:32:31.020 newfoundland for example where some ferries have
00:32:33.500 put vaccine mandates in place uh depending on on
00:32:36.540 where in the country they are so there are
00:32:38.140 significant restrictions here that for all that
00:32:40.700 canadian leaders love to vaunt the vastness of canada
00:32:45.260 they're now saying that canadians only some canadians can enjoy that vastness
00:32:50.060 absolutely no no no question about it and i i find that
00:32:53.580 uh you know an argument that cannot be sustained as you say
00:32:57.580 when a government goes about it deliberately goes about the business of
00:33:02.060 restricting your right as a canadian we know there's something you know
00:33:07.580 fundamentally wrong and this is what's happening right now i think of the bush
00:33:12.540 pilots you know what why did we get into air travel at all in that case you know
00:33:16.620 if you're going to start discriminating against some canadians and how they can
00:33:20.140 travel based on their medical condition you
00:33:22.380 you can still go this way you can still go that way
00:33:24.940 well that that defies the whole nature and progression of our nation
00:33:28.780 and and to begin to enter into a world of discrimination it seems to me
00:33:34.540 there's a very very slippery slope that we should never go down or even enter
00:33:39.420 unless it is unbelievably justified in a very extreme circumstance
00:33:45.100 and this is not extreme circumstance on a lighter note i have to correct myself
00:33:50.060 if you take the mckenzie river it's not going to get you anywhere near the
00:33:52.380 pacific so i don't recommend following my uh directions if you are trying to uh
00:33:56.140 canoe your way to tovalu but but on a more serious point yeah you have to go
00:34:00.060 around around alaska but uh i don't recommend it this time of year but
00:34:04.540 but but let me ask you brian go ahead you can go up from hay river and go all
00:34:08.940 the way there you go take a boat but there you go then you can just uh go
00:34:13.900 across to siberia it might be quicker but you can't do it and it will take you
00:34:17.340 weeks and weeks to do it let me ask you on a more serious point here
00:34:21.340 about the way that governments are viewing this because section one which you
00:34:24.940 mentioned earlier this is i i'd say one of the the more dangerous sections
00:34:28.220 we've seen in the last 40 years of the charter because it's the section that
00:34:31.900 says all of the rights you're about to read are subject to
00:34:34.940 reasonable limits and and the court has of course developed a
00:34:37.980 a test for that a very i i know you're going to finish the line and i and i'm
00:34:41.340 gonna i want you to do that but i'm talking about how it's been
00:34:44.540 perceived because governments have used this as sort of a trump card
00:34:47.900 that they can just say well you know this other thing's more important and
00:34:51.740 you are right and i and i knew where you were going with this so tell me
00:34:54.460 why does that not capture the entirety of those section one powers
00:34:58.380 well number one section one doesn't apply in my view as one of the
00:35:01.980 writers of section one it was meant to be in when the country's in a state of
00:35:05.980 peril insurrection or war this is not a state of peril
00:35:09.020 insurrection or war so number one my number one argument
00:35:12.300 is it doesn't apply and therefore the unconstitutionality exists
00:35:16.860 number two my argument is even if you wanted to apply for argument's sake
00:35:21.020 and that's what you want me to do engage in an argument on section one
00:35:24.700 you just mentioned and this is one of the people perceive it because it talks
00:35:28.060 about reasonable limits there are four tests the first one is
00:35:33.100 demonstrably justify what you're doing within reasonable
00:35:36.780 limits by law all in the context of a free and
00:35:40.300 democratic society you tell me that the government of
00:35:44.620 canada or any of the governments of canada have
00:35:47.660 met any or all of those four tests in the case of the travel ban they have not
00:35:52.780 demands to be justified that is necessary where is the report
00:35:56.460 where is the cost benefit analysis and where are they and then free and
00:35:59.980 democratic society means a parliamentary society that's what canada
00:36:04.380 stands for parliamentary where are the parliamentary committees
00:36:07.740 we have 14 parliaments in this country and none of them have been engaged
00:36:13.340 in any meaningful way in discussing and debating
00:36:17.340 these mandates and therefore two major conditions
00:36:21.660 of section one have not been met and therefore
00:36:24.620 what is happening is unconstitutional so i think on both counts
00:36:28.300 one it doesn't apply but if for argument's sake it does
00:36:31.740 on both counts the government uh in my view is acting
00:36:36.300 unconstitutional and that's what we'll be arguing before the federal court
00:36:40.780 i take what you're saying about the intent of section one and and you know
00:36:44.780 you're the last surviving of the architects and first minister so i think
00:36:48.620 your words on this should carry a lot of weight and i think do certainly
00:36:52.220 in my estimation but we look at the jurisprudence on this and courts have at
00:36:56.460 times especially in the last two years
00:36:59.020 taken very broad interpretations of those limits and we've seen
00:37:03.340 not that they've gone to the supreme court but at lower courts we've seen
00:37:06.060 government side or courts side with government on this
00:37:09.420 looking back on this is that a section that you would if you were to go back to
00:37:13.500 1982 with the knowledge you have now is this a section that you would uh support
00:37:18.540 in the way it's worded and and i guess what i mean by that is do you feel that
00:37:21.820 section one itself was a mistake in its in the way it was crafted or do you just
00:37:26.380 feel that governments and courts have wronged no not at all absolutely it wouldn't
00:37:30.780 change a word i wouldn't change i'll tell you why section one was not
00:37:35.180 negotiated in in as section one section one was negotiated in the context of all
00:37:40.300 the other sections of the charter and the charter was negotiated in the context of all
00:37:44.700 the other sections of of of the constitution act 982 that's one and what everybody forgets
00:37:50.300 that was the deal if we go back and try to reopen that other provisions of the constitution
00:37:55.900 will get changed there will be more negotiations more to and fro right that's the danger
00:38:01.340 that you face when you start to reopen things because you're not reopening just section one you're
00:38:05.900 reopening the charter you're not just reopening the charter you're reopening the constitution of 1982
00:38:12.220 and the aboriginal rights of 35 the equalization rights right that are in there the natural resource
00:38:18.060 lights that are in there the minority language rights center this was a negotiation on all these
00:38:22.940 matters okay so all these would come back in play and quebec would be there with other demands so what we
00:38:29.660 have in any reasonable person's mind right uh to me especially with all if those four conditions
00:38:37.420 weren't in we didn't say demonstrably justified if we didn't say by law if we didn't say in reasonable
00:38:42.620 limits if we didn't say free and democratic society now yes lower courts have ruled with the
00:38:48.220 governments but no high courts have ruled on this yet and unfortunately those two lower courts even forgot
00:38:54.540 their own superior court the supreme court of canada rule in 1986 about section one the oats test is
00:39:02.460 called and in the oats test they made it very clear that the onus was on the government to prove
00:39:10.220 what they were doing was necessary that's not even mentioned in the manitoba case that went the
00:39:16.940 government's way nor in the bc case that will be taken up don't you worry in all of the appeals that
00:39:22.700 are going forward in the court of appeal because the courts themselves never even adhered to their
00:39:28.700 own rules that had been established earlier by the supreme court of canada talking about your case
00:39:33.820 specifically here as you've noted there have been two years of legal challenges none of them have made
00:39:38.940 their way up to the supreme court yet there's a huge backlog in courts as people take lockdown fines
00:39:44.860 that they've had and bigger matters like this to court so this could take years and in that time
00:39:50.860 the government could say that we're rescinding the mandate the government could at this time
00:39:55.100 on using its government powers take it away there's a bigger point here i think which is that even if
00:40:00.940 it takes five years to get to the supreme court and the mandate is long gone the pandemic is declared
00:40:06.540 over there needs to be something on the record so that this never happens again you're in it for the
00:40:12.380 long haul aren't you i'm in it for the long haul no question i want to see the charter of rights and
00:40:18.380 freedoms the constitution act of 1982 restored in all its simple and plain meaning that's what i want
00:40:25.340 to see because like i said earlier if it's not then it sets a precedent for another time it makes it far
00:40:30.780 more difficult for our freedoms to be protected and safeguarded so we're in for the long haul but
00:40:35.100 remember this action goes to the federal court of canada it's not in the province it goes to the
00:40:39.980 federal court of canada and then uh either side has the right to appeal depending on who wins and
00:40:45.500 who loses to the supreme court of canada we are asking in our application for an expedited hearing
00:40:51.180 on this because we think this is extremely important for individuals who are unable to
00:40:55.980 travel right now and for business who are unable to travel that's why it's not just you i should say
00:41:00.460 there are other there are other applicants here who are being denied the right to see their family not
00:41:04.780 just to go on some vacation but to see their family to uh to do their work there are a lot of things
00:41:09.900 at play here yeah yeah so i'm just characterized because of my former involvement as first minister
00:41:16.700 in the constitution i'm characterized as the lead sort of applicant but there are other applicants
00:41:22.300 a part of this legal action that we're taking for the same reasons gave that obviously there are many
00:41:29.180 canadians who are being being affected personally and and business-wise as a result of these actions
00:41:36.300 which have not been justified under uh the section one the honorable brian peckford former premier of
00:41:44.140 newfoundland before it was newfoundland and labrador former premier of newfoundland uh brian peckford thank
00:41:48.540 you so much for your time and good luck with the case sir thank you very much brian peckford this has
00:41:53.740 been a stellar week for guests by the way last show i had ann kabuki and who i've already had many of
00:41:58.380 you actually i've had a few people say you should hire her at true north i think she has a lot on the go
00:42:02.460 right now but certainly she's welcome back anytime and brian peckford when i had him on the show some
00:42:07.660 months ago at some point last fall or something as well i had people saying you got to have him back
00:42:12.220 you got to have him back and his lawsuit against the federal government i think has been a great
00:42:16.540 opportunity to do that so happy to have brian here and happy to have all of you here we will have a
00:42:22.060 special edition of the show tomorrow with dr william gardner looking at the state of the conservative
00:42:27.820 movement in canada and on the weekend i'm headed to ottawa for the convoy we'll have reports from
00:42:33.020 there at true north and i'll have a full update for you when i get back next week on the andrew
00:42:38.300 lawton show so big times here thanks very much for sticking with us we will talk to you soon thank
00:42:42.540 you god bless and good day thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show support the program by
00:42:47.100 by donating to true north at www.tnc.news