Juno News - Trudeau is marching Canada down a dark path

00:00:00.000 Why on earth did Prime Minister Justin Trudeau invoke the Emergency Act and what exactly does

00:00:05.140 it give him the power to do? I'm Candice Malcolm and this is the Candice Malcolm Show.

00:00:12.660 Hi everyone, thank you so much for tuning into the podcast today. So as you know,

00:00:16.740 Justin Trudeau invoked the Emergency Measures Act on Monday afternoon. This is the most dramatic

00:00:21.340 move possible for a Prime Minister in Canada, giving himself broad and sweeping powers that

00:00:26.440 are previously unprecedented during peacetime. So these powers were not used during the Oka

00:00:31.700 crisis in 1990. They were not used following 9-11 or following the terrorist attack on Parliament Hill

00:00:37.700 when an active terrorist shooter entered Parliament just steps away from where members of Parliament

00:00:43.180 were meeting. But Trudeau invoked them this week. Why? Because a small group of maybe a few hundred

00:00:48.940 truckers refused to leave and continued to camp out in Ottawa. Was the Freedom Convoy really that

00:00:54.860 big of a threat? Was this necessary? And what exactly does this give Trudeau the power to do?

00:00:59.560 Well, to help me make sense of all of this, I am joined by Ryan O'Connor. Ryan O'Connor is a

00:01:04.620 Toronto-based lawyer working as a partner at Zayuna Law Firm. O'Connor has written articles in the

00:01:09.340 Toronto Sun, Post Media, and Post Millennial. Outside of his work as a lawyer, O'Connor serves as a director

00:01:14.600 on the board of Ontario Proud. And I think most importantly, Ryan, you are married to the wonderful

00:01:20.320 Jessica who represented True North when we sued the Trudeau government's debate commissions back

00:01:24.380 during the 2019 federal election. We won triumphantly because of her work, her brilliant work as a

00:01:30.120 lawyer, and it was a huge victory for all Canadians for free speech and freedom of press. So thank you

00:01:35.000 so much for joining us today, Ryan. Well, it's good to be with you, Candice, and that latter point is

00:01:39.340 probably my proudest accomplishment. Me too, me too. Well, Ryan, I want to, on a more serious note, I want to

00:01:46.440 ask you about the Emergencies Act because there was sort of a lot of confusion as to what it did.

00:01:51.640 I know that some people online last night were saying that this was, you know, martial law and

00:01:58.320 it was suspending civil liberties and other Trudeau supporters were pushing back saying,

00:02:01.820 no, it doesn't go that broad and this has parliamentary oversight. So can you help us

00:02:06.620 make sense of what exactly this act does and how it works?

00:02:11.700 So the Emergency Act was enacted in 1988. It replaced the War Measures Act, which the Prime Minister's

00:02:18.380 father Pierre had enacted in 1970 in response to the October crisis, the terrorist attacks

00:02:24.720 were going on in Quebec, kidnappings, assassinations. And one of the reasons why this was enacted was to

00:02:30.200 ensure that this emergency legislation that we had was compliant with the Charter, which had come into

00:02:35.300 effect six years prior. There are very strict criteria that have to be met in order for

00:02:40.660 the federal cabinet in this case to declare what's called a national emergency. There has to be,

00:02:47.160 broadly speaking, a threat to public safety that's beyond the capacity of a province to deal with.

00:02:53.240 And in fact, the national emergency is defined as being beyond the capacity of any, pardon me,

00:02:59.380 the capacity of any of our current laws to address. So it can be seen to be sort of a last step for a

00:03:06.820 government that has exhausted all options in a time of actual crisis. But there's a very real

00:03:11.680 question from a legal perspective is whether or not that definition of national emergency has been

00:03:15.700 met and whether or not we're in such a crisis at this stage in response to protests and some blockades

00:03:20.620 that would warrant the enactment of very significant legislation that can trample on Canadian civil liberties.

00:03:26.900 Well, so what does the Trudeau government say? Like they must have issued some kind of

00:03:30.620 legal documents saying what the crisis is, why they believe it's a crisis, and why the current laws

00:03:37.180 are not enough insufficient to help them deal with this?

00:03:40.360 Well, they've issued an order in council, which is an order of the federal cabinet.

00:03:45.740 One of the justifications was the economic impact that some of these blockades have had.

00:03:50.400 And let's bear in mind that the blockade in the Windsor, Detroit area, the Ambassador Bridge in Ontario,

00:03:55.680 has been clear that blockade is no longer impacting the local economy or the Canadian economy broadly.

00:04:02.200 There are still some blockades at border crossings, we understand. But it appears that law enforcement

00:04:07.320 officials have the ability and the discretion to deal with that. But some of the other justifications,

00:04:12.380 again, just don't make sense. They're concerned about political donations that might be financing

00:04:17.160 the trucker convoy and the blockades. And again, citing the economic impact that blockades have had

00:04:24.320 because Canada's recovering from the pandemic. We've had two years where government policy has

00:04:31.220 imposed very significant restrictions on the economy that have had economic impacts for small

00:04:37.860 businesses and individuals. So the government's using justifications for these extreme measures that,

00:04:45.460 frankly, have existed for the last two years and it hasn't utilized. So it's a bit perplexing reading

00:04:51.200 the order in council. And there's also a reference to an impact, I'm paraphrasing, on supply chains,

00:04:56.780 on economic activity. Well, you know, the government's mandates have had that impact on

00:05:01.380 economic activity long before these blockades were imposed. So those are some of the justifications

00:05:05.480 that the Trudeau cabinet has used to justify invoking this national emergency.

00:05:09.740 Okay, one other question on this topic of why they would do this. So there was a tweet on Tuesday

00:05:15.300 afternoon from Ashley Burke over at the CBC. She writes this,

00:05:19.460 public safety minister says, what's driving the demonstrations across Canada is a, quote,

00:05:23.960 very small and organized group driven by an ideology to overthrow the government for whatever

00:05:28.760 means they may wish to use, unquote. She goes on to say that Minister Mendocino said that the arrest

00:05:35.540 in Coutts, Alberta is an example of this, what the government is concerned, talking about how a

00:05:39.460 cache of weapons were seized. And she continues to say public safety minister Mark Mendocino has said

00:05:46.780 there have been multiple people trying to characterize the blockades as about vaccines

00:05:51.660 and mandates, and about fatigue with the pandemic. But he says that is not what is driving this

00:05:57.200 movement. So, so, Brian, this is the first I'm hearing about this whole idea that that this whole

00:06:03.260 freedom convoy was just a front to actually overthrow the Trudeau government and that there's a small,

00:06:09.680 you know, serious group of driven by ideology to overthrow the government.

00:06:13.280 Was that mentioned in the Order in Council? And is this something that you've heard before?

00:06:18.620 Well, that's not specifically mentioned in the Order in Council. It's not something that I've heard

00:06:23.920 generally. There's been rumblings online about the motivations of some of the protesters. You know,

00:06:28.900 this is a very broad movement in Canada. I'm sure many of them would want to see

00:06:32.020 this government replaced with a different political party given how they've, you know,

00:06:37.720 the policies have enacted during the pandemic. But I don't know if this is based on intelligence that the

00:06:42.780 government has access to and is letting the public know about. So I'm not so sure where it's going

00:06:47.040 with that. But the government has to be very careful that this national emergency was not

00:06:51.780 declared solely because it might disagree with the objectives of some of the protesters.

00:06:55.740 If you simply disagree with the government and want to have a protest, that's what happens in a

00:07:00.620 liberal democracy. And it cannot and should not ever be used as justification to impose very

00:07:05.680 sweeping laws that can restrict assembly, very sweeping laws that can freeze, in this case,

00:07:10.660 use bank accounts without judicial authorization, and to clear otherwise legal political protests.

00:07:16.420 So the government is treading on very dangerous water. If they believe that this is something

00:07:20.420 ideological, you know, an attempt to take over the government, so to speak, without justification.

00:07:25.300 So it's somewhat concerning to hear that when the government didn't even indicate that in its

00:07:29.380 announcement yesterday.

00:07:30.920 Okay, so we sort of get some kind of a murky picture of why the government would do this.

00:07:36.900 Let's, let's talk a little bit about what they now have the powers to do, because you touched

00:07:41.380 on a little bit seizing bank accounts, and Christy Oferlian came out talking about how insurance

00:07:46.580 policies can be canceled, people can lose their corporate bank accounts. And Justin Trudeau talked

00:07:51.620 about how truck drivers, sorry, tow truck drivers can be compelled now to tow these trucks, because that

00:07:57.460 was part of the problem that they were having before. So can you help us understand what exactly

00:08:03.380 is being enabled and whether any of this, these options and these new powers have been exercised?

00:08:10.820 Well, we'll have to, we'll have to wait and see if they're exercised. The cabinet now has given

00:08:16.500 itself the authority to issue orders that they had expressed the intended to yesterday, commandeering

00:08:22.420 tow trucks to clear heavy vehicles from protests, freezing the assets of accounts that are believed to

00:08:28.180 be financing the convoy and, and also, or alternatively, the blockades. Now, the cabinet

00:08:35.940 can under the legislation was properly invoked, and the emergency was properly declared, then the

00:08:41.700 government does have wide latitude to issue those, those regulations. Some of those regulations haven't,

00:08:48.180 to my mind, been published yet. So we'll see. And the government does have seven days to issue a motion

00:08:55.300 before parliament, which can be discussed and debated about its justification and its intention. So a lot

00:09:00.180 of this is still unfolding and remains to be seen. But this is very broad legislation that does allow

00:09:06.100 cabinet wide latitude to issue those, those orders. And some of those have very significant civil liberties

00:09:11.380 implications, commandeering private property and freezing bank accounts, the most significant of that.

00:09:16.500 Well, so interestingly, we've heard several legal groups and constitutional groups come out and

00:09:21.300 oppose this, the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, the Canadian Constitution Foundation,

00:09:26.500 which are both sort of more centre-right rule of law groups, but also the Canadian Civil Liberties

00:09:31.540 Association, which is more of a left-wing group. They've all condemned the decision to invoke these

00:09:37.140 powers. Do you think that will have any bearing? Do you think that, you know, lawyers trying to stop this,

00:09:44.260 like, what can lawyers do to try to stop this? What can Canadians do to try to stop this? And do you think that

00:09:50.500 these critics will have any impact on this? Well, largely depends on the focus of a challenge.

00:09:57.540 We still have to see whether or not co-trucks are being commandeered, bank accounts are actually being

00:10:01.540 frozen, or if this just is an attempt to disquelch opposition to this government. It is heartening,

00:10:07.780 from my perspective, to see those who might be identified as more progressive groups, as well as

00:10:12.660 groups on the other side of the spectrum, more conservative in nature, opposing this. That tells you that

00:10:18.660 a lot of lawyers oppose this. You know, this again is that this is unprecedented. This act has never

00:10:23.700 been invoked before. And those who have been lobbying for the invocation of the Emergency Act,

00:10:29.860 whether they be politicians and those who may be supportive of this government, we know the NDP

00:10:34.340 has endorsed this, despite not endorsing a lot of the, you know, the recent pandemic restrictions,

00:10:39.700 necessarily. You know, it's unfortunate to see them endorsing it. But at the same time,

00:10:45.940 it's heartening to see that there are people who generally oppose this. And look, at the end of the

00:10:49.940 day, if you oppose the protests and the motivation behind them, and oppose the blockades and the

00:10:53.780 motivation behind them, you know, what's to say the government can't use these powers in the future

00:10:58.660 against a cause that you support? And it should give all of us clauses, Canadians, as well as lawyers,

00:11:03.300 that when you start to exercise this power, and it starts to become normalized, it may be used against

00:11:08.100 cause that you causes that you believe in. And we're all for it and liberal democracy,

00:11:11.940 if that's the case. Absolutely. And so many of the people who

00:11:15.780 are okay with it today are cheering it along. We're the same kind of people that were ripping

00:11:20.180 their hair out over over just sorry, over Stephen Harper's. Like I saw Stephen Taylor tweet that,

00:11:26.900 you know, many of the same people who agree with this were very upset when Stephen Harper

00:11:33.220 removed the long form census. And that was something that they thought was a threat to liberal

00:11:36.980 democracy. And here they are standing standing quietly by. So, I mean, it's interesting,

00:11:43.300 because we you know, we talked about groups that have come out against it. We've also interestingly

00:11:48.020 seen some people come out in favor of it. I saw Peter McKay tweeted in favor of saying it's necessary.

00:11:53.940 I believe he had a piece in the National Post saying that same thing. I haven't really heard a huge

00:11:58.980 uproar from Candace Bergen and the conservative caucus. You know, why do you think that there haven't

00:12:05.940 been more, why hasn't there been more political pushback? Doug Ford, the premier of Ontario, seems

00:12:11.220 to be perfectly happy with it. Why are these conservatives going along with a huge power grab

00:12:16.820 by a liberal prime minister? I think there's a tension there with those on the conservative

00:12:22.500 side of the spectrum, because they often portray themselves as being supportive of law and order.

00:12:27.860 And, you know, there are some lawbreakers like, you know, the best example was the Ambassador

00:12:32.500 Bridge blockade, any sort of blockade of critical infrastructure should be dealt with in the

00:12:37.540 confines of the law. But the law already allowed us to allow governments, pardon me, and police to clear

00:12:43.460 the blockade in Windsor without a national emergency. We've seen some of the other blockades be

00:12:48.660 be cleared out in various other places. So I think there's a tension on, you know, for conservative

00:12:53.700 parties say, well, they want to still support law and order. And this is a way to do so. But what I

00:12:58.740 find fascinating more generally is that no one on any side of the political spectrum seriously called

00:13:04.660 for the invocation of the Emergencies Act, when our critical infrastructure, rail, forestry and the

00:13:10.580 like, were being impeded during the protests and blockades in February 2020. No serious person was

00:13:16.580 advocating for the potential suspension of civil liberties and the imposition of the Emergencies Act.

00:13:23.460 Yet for some reason, that's par for the discourse this time. And I find that to be incredibly

00:13:28.100 disheartening. No one should approach this from a political perspective, they should approach it

00:13:32.260 from a civil liberties perspective. And I think we should all be alarmed wherever anyone is on the

00:13:36.740 spectrum about the challenges of civil liberties that this is presenting.

00:13:39.860 Well, that sort of reminds me, we saw the image right around the same time as Justin Trudeau was

00:13:45.300 making his announcement of invoking these Emergency Measures Act. There was a pretty ruckus looking

00:13:52.100 protest in Gastown in my hometown of Vancouver, where they violently desecrated a statue, tore it down

00:13:58.820 the statue of Gassy Jack, who that's sort of the latest person on the hit list, I suppose, for some

00:14:05.220 some left wing activists, they pulled the statue down. Interesting, because I haven't seen any of that

00:14:11.060 kind of violence or desecration or destruction of private property at the trucker protests. But yet,

00:14:18.100 you know, to your point, no one no one would have ever imagined evoking, invoking emergency measures

00:14:24.340 over these things. Why, why, why does the society, why does the prime minister treat left wing groups

00:14:29.140 so differently than pro freedom, working class groups? Well, the prime minister sees that there's

00:14:35.700 an emergency, but it's not a national emergency. It's a political emergency. The prime minister is

00:14:40.660 being squeezed from both ends of the spectrum. We've seen that in recent polling numbers. He's,

00:14:46.100 his response has been seen to be inadequate by those who want a more forceful response.

00:14:51.620 And his, he's also being opposed by others in the political spectrum who, who want to see him

00:14:56.340 remove all mandates and all COVID restrictions and let Canadians move on with their lives.

00:15:00.180 So that's created, as I said, a political emergency for the Liberal Party. And they're taking an

00:15:04.100 opportunity, ironically, two years into the pandemic, when there may have been justifications,

00:15:09.300 potentially, at the beginning of the pandemic to assert these powers.

00:15:13.540 The prime minister is doing so now because he's being politically squeezed,

00:15:16.980 and that just demonstrates the cynicism of this. This, again, is potentially very draconian

00:15:22.180 legislation that should only be invoked in rare circumstances, perhaps if there's a war

00:15:27.380 or a serious natural disaster. But the prime minister appears to be invoking it not for those reasons,

00:15:32.740 but for his own political and partisan gain. And I frankly find that to be cynical and,

00:15:38.260 frankly, an affront to liberal democracy.

00:15:41.940 Well, I agree. I hope he pays a political price. Well, final question for you, Ryan. So what do you,

00:15:46.900 what do you think is lying ahead? What's going to happen in the next few days here,

00:15:50.900 both in parliament in terms of getting this, this emergency act through to the point where they can

00:15:55.940 actually start using the powers? And then once those powers are enabled, what, what, what do you

00:16:00.020 expect to see on the streets in places like Ottawa? I don't know if there's anyone left in Windsor. I don't

00:16:04.740 think so. But in wherever else these trucker convoy, convoy protests may pop up.

00:16:10.180 Well, we saw with Ontario's declaration of emergency, it really didn't change things aside

00:16:15.540 from clearing the blockade, which would have presumably been cleared anyways, there was a

00:16:18.980 court injunction. You know, the trucker convoy in Ottawa has been there now going on for weeks,

00:16:24.740 I don't think they're going anywhere. I don't know that there's an appetite to clear those

00:16:28.420 individuals out, nor should there be if they're peacefully protesting in the parliamentary

00:16:32.420 precinct. But what is going to unfold in parliament over the next few days is very interesting.

00:16:37.220 The emergencies act requires that the government table a motion for consideration within seven

00:16:43.780 days. The state of emergency, pardon me, the national emergency can exist for 30 days,

00:16:48.660 there are opportunities to extend that. But there's also a built in accountability mechanism.

00:16:53.300 And I just wonder if the Liberal government has really considered that there has to be an inquiry

00:16:57.860 into the use of the emergency power, that inquiry has to start within 60 days after the end of the

00:17:04.260 emergency. And there has to be a report to parliament on that inquiry within 360 days of the of the

00:17:11.460 emergency. So there's a built in accountability mechanism. And while we hope that if there is

00:17:16.900 overreach that lawyers and legal organizations will be challenging any government overreach, particularly if

00:17:23.220 it breaches the Charter of Rights or Constitution otherwise, there is a built in accountability

00:17:27.380 mechanism. And I'm hopeful that from that accountability mechanism over the next year,

00:17:32.100 we'll see recommendations that will restrict government from ever using this this tool,

00:17:37.460 which should be rarely used, but using it as a tool for political gain as opposed to supporting

00:17:42.100 public safety and public health. Well, it's going to be really interesting to watch it unfold. I hope,

00:17:46.980 again, Trudeau pays the price. I hope this backfires on him because, again, we've seen unbelievable

00:17:52.740 abuses of power over the last two years, restrictions on our freedoms. And, you know, to pretend that

00:17:58.420 this is some kind of a national emergency that warrants even more temporary emergency powers,

00:18:03.140 I think to many Canadians is just a complete farce. So Ryan O'Connor, lawyer in Toronto,

00:18:07.620 thank you so much for joining the show. Thank you for helping us understand and break everything down.

00:18:12.260 Good to be with you, Candice. Thank you.

00:18:13.540 All right. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.

00:18:22.740 Thank you.

Juno News - February 16, 2022

Trudeau is marching Canada down a dark path

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