Juno News - Trudeau's ban on independent journalists comes back to bite him

00:00:00.000 Transcription by CastingWords

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:00.000 welcome to canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton show brought to you by true

00:01:19.720 north hello and welcome to you all canada's most irreverent talk show on this wednesday

00:01:29.120 july 24th hope you're doing well it is just after one o'clock eastern time where i am in

00:01:34.360 beautiful southwestern ontario but wherever you are i think it's i haven't actually been

00:01:38.680 outside today i realize so it may or may not be beautiful but it's not flooding like it was

00:01:43.200 was that early last week and and certainly in toronto so it is all relative in that sense but

00:01:49.260 Anyway, hope wherever you are in this lovely country or world, you're having a great day.

00:01:53.920 Whether you're listening live or catching this in a time capsule in the year 2075, we welcome you very much.

00:02:01.840 And I hope the world is a little bit less chaotic than it is today.

00:02:06.280 But anyway, I want to talk about a few different things here.

00:02:09.180 We're going to get into gas prices with the, I'm going to definitely the country's leading authority, maybe even the world's leading authority on gas prices.

00:02:17.120 Dan McTagg. That is going to be coming up in just about 15 minutes or so. Also later on in the

00:02:22.760 program, why free trade is a bit of a misnomer when you don't even have free trade in your own

00:02:27.780 country. You can't take a case of beer from one province to another. And these barriers are coming

00:02:33.220 with a huge cost, about $200 billion a year. That's going to be something we tackle later on

00:02:38.980 in the program. But I want to begin by discussing this interview. I mentioned it yesterday because

00:02:44.020 it had just sort of emerged that it had happened as I was coming on air. And it was an interview

00:02:50.000 that was not planned, that is very unlikely on the surface between Kian Bextie of The Counter

00:02:56.560 Signal. Now he used to work for Rebel, now he's started his own outlet, and Justin Trudeau. And

00:03:02.640 the interview took place where, I mean, basically the only place you can get interview access to

00:03:07.700 Justin Trudeau, which is a beach in Tofino, British Columbia. Now, there are a few moving

00:03:12.600 parts to this. Number one, Justin Trudeau is on vacation. He decided to take 10 days off until

00:03:18.580 the end of the month with his family. I don't know if it's just his kids and him. I don't know

00:03:22.600 if Sophie is there as well, but either way, it's a family vacation. He is on the beach in Tofino.

00:03:28.240 He loves Tofino, goes there all the time. And this is where Kian Bextie and one of his colleagues

00:03:34.200 who goes by Cat Canada on Twitter, she was, I believe, the camera operator at the time. Now,

00:03:40.820 why I want to talk about this is because this has become a bit of a flashpoint here

00:03:45.680 online you have some people not just Trudeau defenders even some people on the right

00:03:49.760 saying this is in poor form it's not fair to ambush someone when they're on vacation

00:03:54.480 you shouldn't invade someone's private space there's a time and a place for this and so on

00:03:59.300 and then you have a whole other subset if you go like way way way deep into the rabbit hole

00:04:05.020 I should have pulled some sample tweets but it's not hard to find you get people that believe this

00:04:09.420 was a setup. This was a plant. Justin Trudeau and Kian Bexty were supposedly in cahoots and they

00:04:17.280 had planned this as some weird psyop that was endeavoring to humanize Justin Trudeau. And

00:04:23.080 I can go through and basically dismantle point by point why it is not a setup. I've known Kian

00:04:29.560 for many, many years. I can tell you he is not on the liberal government's payroll. All of the

00:04:35.220 theories that have come up for how he got close or how did he get past security these are people

00:04:39.920 that know nothing about Canadian security they know nothing I mean I have shaken Justin Trudeau's

00:04:44.420 hand more times than I can count this is not something that is difficult to do in Canada

00:04:49.080 especially if someone is outside of a structured environment if they think they're just walking

00:04:53.540 along a beach now I would say that the relatively lax security in this country around political

00:04:58.500 leaders is a feature and not a bug it's because we live in a country in which leaders are not and

00:05:03.660 do not feel threatened generally. Now, I'm assuming a time will come when that will change, but

00:05:07.560 don't take the absence of Kian being tackled by police as evidence that he had been given

00:05:13.800 permission to get close to Justin Trudeau. That being said, once he did get there and Justin

00:05:20.100 Trudeau did have RCMP kind of performing a protective bubble around him, he did wave them

00:05:25.620 off. And you're going to see this in the clip that I'm going to share in a couple of moments.

00:05:29.280 But the reason I'm wanting to give it a bit of context here is just so you know what the two

00:05:33.200 debates are that are taking place about this number one this was a setup it was staged number

00:05:38.340 two okay maybe it wasn't a setup and it wasn't staged but it was unfair he shouldn't have done

00:05:43.120 it it's not civil it's not polite okay now that we have those arguments i've got thoughts on both

00:05:48.360 of those but let's just roll a bit of the clip now this is a a 13 minute video that the counter

00:05:53.660 signal has posted this is an excerpt that shows i think the general tone and tenor of what happened

00:05:59.500 I'll be with you in a bit.

00:06:28.360 Thank you. I appreciate it.

00:06:29.360 No, tell me.

00:06:30.360 I just want to know.

00:06:31.360 No, no, no.

00:06:32.360 I get that.

00:06:33.360 I ask the questions.

00:06:34.360 You can ask me one question and I'll ask you one question.

00:06:35.360 You can ask me one question, but you won't.

00:06:36.360 Okay?

00:06:37.360 Sure.

00:06:38.360 Do you think Prime Ministers should be able to have a family life?

00:06:40.360 Absolutely.

00:06:41.360 Okay.

00:06:42.360 Can you imagine?

00:06:43.360 No, no, no.

00:06:44.360 I get to ask one question.

00:06:45.360 You've asked multiple questions.

00:06:46.360 You haven't answered one, though.

00:06:47.360 I'm going to ask one more.

00:06:48.360 I'm going to ask one more.

00:06:49.360 Do you think Prime Ministers get to have a family life?

00:06:51.360 Do you think?

00:06:52.360 Do you think?

00:06:53.360 Do you think?

00:06:54.360 Do you think?

00:06:55.360 Okay.

00:06:56.360 So what's your question?

00:06:57.360 I want to know if you're hiding from your caucus, why you won't call a caucus meeting?

00:07:00.880 Okay. I am not hiding from my caucus, and I've had many, many conversations and meetings with

00:07:07.520 caucus. Okay. Question for you now. Can you imagine, and do you think that kids who grow up

00:07:17.120 in a Prime Minister's family deserve to have a normal-ish life with their family?

00:07:24.560 Absolutely, yeah.

00:07:26.560 Okay. And can you understand...

00:07:28.560 Can I ask a question? Sure. Go ahead.

00:07:30.560 So, you are passing a bill right now. You're pushing through a bill that's going to...

00:07:33.560 It's called the Online Harms Act, and you're sort of putting a bunch of policy in behind protecting children.

00:07:40.560 You say it's all about protecting children, but that bill is actually going to censor Canadians' ability to access the Internet,

00:07:47.560 to exercise free speech. Why put those two bills together? Why not separate them? 0.94

00:07:53.560 first of all it's actually not doing any censoring of the internet and it's entirely focused on

00:08:01.960 protecting the kids. So it goes on it's about a 10 minute walk and talk which is a type of

00:08:09.340 interview and it's not a level of access or a length of interview that any independent journalist

00:08:14.460 that I'm aware of has ever had with Justin Trudeau and Kian Bexley only got that because he went to

00:08:20.940 Tofino and went to where he assumed Justin Trudeau was going to be. And that was that. Now,

00:08:26.900 I'm going to just, there's so much to unpack in this, oddly enough. And one of the reasons I

00:08:32.700 wanted to bring, share that clip with you is because Justin Trudeau has been protected from

00:08:38.100 Kian. The police have come in, they're putting a barrier. They know they can get him. I don't 0.99

00:08:42.340 know how far he is from shelter or a building, but they know that they can basically keep Kian 0.99

00:08:47.720 away from him. And Justin Trudeau says, no, no, no, let's take a walk. Now, I think what he was

00:08:54.340 doing there, it sounds like, was actually just trying to go away from his son. He was also,

00:08:59.800 I suspect, realizing, okay, maybe there's a way that I can flip the script on this and turn this

00:09:05.060 around. Because everyone has seen videos of some independent journalists filming Justin Trudeau

00:09:10.280 walking alongside him. He ignores them. That's that. He's doing something different here. And

00:09:14.460 what he does is he walks right over to Kian and says, all right, I'll take your questions, 0.91

00:09:17.480 but I get to ask you questions too. And after a little bit of awkwardness at the beginning,

00:09:21.400 they seem to accept the terms of this. Kian asks questions about the Online Harms Act,

00:09:26.360 about Liberals Caucus Management, about whether Justin Trudeau is going to step down before the

00:09:30.860 next election. Justin Trudeau focuses on family, about having a private life, having a family life,

00:09:36.260 about whether it's fair to not let people have that. And they talk about how much Justin Trudeau

00:09:42.400 works and how much time he takes off him it was actually in some ways a more insightful interview

00:09:48.720 and then not in some ways in many ways it was a more insightful interview

00:09:52.320 than you get from most other places with justin trudeau certainly now so i it was not staged it

00:09:59.520 was not set up there is no evidence to support that and the only evidence is just people saying

00:10:04.160 they don't think kian would get that close to him that's really the only theory that the only

00:10:09.440 evidence or speculation that people who believe in the you know undercover liberal operative

00:10:14.720 key and bexty theory seem to have but the reason i want to talk about this so much is because

00:10:20.080 what trudeau has done is very masterful i'll give him credit for it he took this moment turned it

00:10:26.080 around took control of the conversation and in the end both got their shots for lack of a term in

00:10:32.960 on the other and the reason that i believe that what kian did was justifiable

00:10:39.440 was because Justin Trudeau has made it impossible for independent journalists to access him in any

00:10:45.440 official forum. I have tried to cover the Liberal caucus meeting even when it was in my own city.

00:10:51.560 That was about a year ago. It was not accredited. The most I would be allowed to do is stand on the

00:10:56.360 sidewalk outside the venue and hope someone walked by. The PMO will not even respond to media requests

00:11:02.240 that I send. So if we're writing a story about Justin Trudeau at True North, we do what journalists

00:11:06.320 are supposed to do, we reach out to the prime minister's office and give them an opportunity

00:11:10.000 to comment. And they do not respond. They ignore us entirely. When Justin Trudeau has press

00:11:16.700 conferences, no matter where in the country they are, if you reach out and you're with True North,

00:11:20.760 or I presume Counter Signal, and you say, I want to attend as a journalist, like every other

00:11:25.020 journalist, they will not respond. They will not even give you the location of these press

00:11:29.160 conferences. So when you shut off official channels of access, which we realize in a

00:11:36.220 democracy are incredibly important, press freedom is incredibly important. Press must have access

00:11:41.440 to political leaders. It doesn't mean unfettered access. It doesn't mean every day. It doesn't

00:11:45.440 mean everyone gets a one-on-one interview, but there should be some level of access. When you

00:11:49.540 shut that off, you force journalists to get creative. And this is Journalism 101, by the way.

00:11:56.480 when you're trying to reach someone for comment and you can't reach them you have to start

00:12:01.680 everything you call them you email them and yes you even go knock on their door because it is

00:12:08.400 that important to make sure you're giving them an opportunity to respond so this is the equivalent

00:12:13.980 of kian bexty in a less obtrusive way i'd say going and knocking on justin trudeau's door

00:12:18.260 and he ends up having a great interview out of it does it reveal anything in the way of breaking

00:12:24.600 news? Maybe, maybe not. That's for you to decide. But it reveals a lot about the way Justin Trudeau

00:12:28.800 is operating. And look, I'll say again, when he's on, he's on. It was hard to believe that that guy

00:12:34.940 was the same guy that struggles to describe a water bottle in some press conferences, but he

00:12:40.720 actually managed to, in that moment, just kick into gear and realize what he needed to do to try

00:12:46.220 to diffuse the situation. And this is what it's supposed to be about. That's what democracy is

00:12:51.940 supposed to be about. That's what the interplay between journalists and politicians is supposed 0.93

00:12:55.900 to be about. It's not about one convincing the other. It's just about the two sides realizing

00:13:00.980 that they have very different constituencies and engaging in some form of a conversation.

00:13:06.260 But I go back to all of this pearl clutching that we see from people that are so mortified,

00:13:11.360 so offended that Kian went to track Justin Trudeau down on the beach. Look, if Justin Trudeau had 0.57

00:13:16.000 been at a restaurant table with his kids, I would have been very uncomfortable with that.

00:13:20.260 if he had been really close to his kids. And at first when I saw that, I didn't think his son

00:13:24.820 was anywhere near. Later on in the interview, Trudeau mentions that his son was out swimming

00:13:29.660 and he was going to visit him. So I think it's possible that when Kian made the approach,

00:13:34.920 he thought he was just alone, but was on his way to see his son. So I don't know the details on

00:13:39.860 that. But I understand the discomfort with that. I once, when in the 2019 election campaign,

00:13:45.820 was banned from covering liberal press conferences.

00:13:49.240 So we were just going around the country on our own

00:13:52.000 because we couldn't be on the liberal campaign plane.

00:13:54.960 And we were trying to get access to Justin Trudeau

00:13:57.540 to ask a couple of questions.

00:13:59.140 And there was one moment we were in Montreal

00:14:01.400 and I was about to approach Justin Trudeau.

00:14:04.760 I was at a table in a hotel lobby

00:14:06.780 and I got up and I just took one step forward

00:14:10.560 and I realized he was surrounded by his kids.

00:14:13.280 And I took a step back

00:14:14.340 because that was not something that I wanted to do.

00:14:16.580 And I knew there'd be another opportunity later in the day.

00:14:18.960 That was a line that I drew.

00:14:20.700 But when you are in the field,

00:14:22.000 you have to make these snap judgments.

00:14:23.540 And I don't begrudge anyone a mistake or two,

00:14:27.320 but I'm not convinced a mistake was made here

00:14:29.340 because Justin Trudeau has invited this treatment

00:14:32.760 from the media.

00:14:34.040 He has invited this treatment from the media

00:14:35.640 by treating the media with such contempt.

00:14:37.660 Again, Kian was one of the journalists 0.92

00:14:39.500 who at the time with Rebel News needed to sue

00:14:42.320 to get into the Leaders' Debates Commission's debates in 2019. True North was there as well.

00:14:48.420 We were banned by a government agency from doing our job as journalists.

00:14:53.560 And every day, despite that, despite that, the liberals still have the same attitude towards

00:14:59.120 independent journalists, the same attitude that prevents them from doing their work.

00:15:04.260 So look, maybe you don't like Key and maybe you don't like the idea of what some people

00:15:08.480 are characterizing as an ambush, but Justin Trudeau is reaping what he has spent the last

00:15:14.200 several years sowing. And that is where I think, again, the pearl clutching is a great way of doing 0.78

00:15:19.960 this. Chris Selle had a point, he was with the National Post. He said, if Justin Trudeau doesn't

00:15:25.440 like the job that much, he's the prime minister of a G7 country, if he doesn't like people asking

00:15:29.520 him questions, then he can just quit already and move on. But the thing that is so fascinating is

00:15:34.820 that when you look at these mechanisms that are in place that tend to block access, these mechanisms

00:15:40.000 in place that tend to prevent people from being able to ask a question to Justin Trudeau, it's

00:15:44.760 because his staff doesn't have confidence in him. It's because his staff is not convinced that he

00:15:49.540 could do the Pierre Polyev thing and turn around an interaction with a journalist in a way like

00:15:55.440 that. Now, I'd say that this exchange with Kian shows that he can at times do it. He can at times 1.00

00:16:01.420 flip the script take charge or at least take a level of control of a conversation and and end

00:16:07.260 up doing it but it's not about what looks good for him it's not about whether he's capable or not

00:16:12.220 the whole point is is that it took uh kian baxi several thousands of dollars for him and his

00:16:18.860 videographer to get on planes go to tofino get he posted like a screenshot of his credit card

00:16:26.780 bill or whatever to you know get on one of those harbor air float planes to go to the beach and i

00:16:32.380 don't know how long they were waiting like i joked yesterday that finding trudeau is kind of easy you

00:16:35.980 just sort of look on the beach and there he is but i don't know if they were walking up and down the

00:16:38.940 beach for eight hours i don't know how long it took for them to do it but i do know that they

00:16:43.580 did it and they did it well and i would suspect that if kian were allowed to go to trudeau press

00:16:49.100 conferences he wouldn't have had to do that because it simply would not be worth it it simply would

00:16:54.380 not be worth it and you'd already have that access and that's where i find this to be just

00:16:59.820 such a profoundly dismal state of affairs i've told the story often of when christia freeland

00:17:05.260 who was at the time the foreign affairs minister she was co-hosting this so-called global conference

00:17:10.860 for media freedom in london england i was there covering it and she was having a press conference

00:17:16.700 and at the media freedom press conference decided to ban me to ban true north from attending it also

00:17:22.460 Sheila Gunn-Reed as well. And it was just by a fluke that all of the other journalists there

00:17:28.460 were really minded to support press freedom. And they said, well, Freeland, we're not going to go

00:17:32.800 to your press conference unless you let everyone in. That solidarity doesn't happen on a normal

00:17:37.740 basis. That solidarity doesn't happen in the case of what Kian Bextie and others are dealing with.

00:17:43.700 So all of that is to say, I am not troubled by this in light of that context. I do believe

00:17:50.780 generally that we should let politicians have a personal life, no matter how much you may loathe

00:17:55.180 them. I don't like the idea of protesting at people's homes. I don't like the idea of harassing

00:17:59.920 people at home. I don't like the idea of harassing anyone or doing anything of the sort when they're

00:18:05.700 around their family. But asking questions as a journalist on a beach, which is not a place that

00:18:11.360 carries a public expect or an expectation of privacy, when you have no other opportunities

00:18:17.480 to do that I think is entirely justifiable that's my position I'm open to people disagreeing so if

00:18:24.220 you have other thoughts on it weigh in in the comments this has been more people have been

00:18:28.520 talking about like the extraneous aspects of the interview than have been talking about the

00:18:33.780 interview itself on social media now admittedly that was before the the interview was released

00:18:38.520 but let's talk about one thing we can find a lot more unanimity on among this audience I suspect

00:18:43.300 which is the devastating impacts of the carbon tax, one of many, not the only thing driving up

00:18:49.320 the cost of living, but it is in fact doing it. Now, that being said, there is an interesting

00:18:55.220 piece that I wanted to get to on gas prices generally, which is that the Competition Bureau

00:19:01.020 is suspecting there may be a little bit of anti-competitive conduct that is, to use the

00:19:07.480 watchdog's word guiding gas prices the competition bureau is looking at a company called

00:19:14.240 calibrate canada which they suspect is guiding gas prices at 100 or 1700 fuel stations across

00:19:22.160 the country if you want to understand fuel prices there's only one guy in canada that knows

00:19:28.300 everything about them and that is our good friend dan mctagg who is the president of canadians for

00:19:33.420 affordable energy and also a former Liberal Member of Parliament back when that meant something very

00:19:38.700 different from what it does today. Dan, it's good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on today.

00:19:43.340 Good to be here, Andrew, and thank you for the invitation. I didn't realize gasoline was

00:19:48.080 such a big deal these days. It certainly wasn't with the Competition Bureau 40 years ago,

00:19:52.360 30 years ago when it was after this file, but glad to see that they're on it nevertheless.

00:19:56.720 Yeah, it's interesting because I think anecdotally everyone would assume there was some sort of a

00:20:01.580 passive collusion going on because you know everyone has seen the intersections with three

00:20:06.300 gas stations where one drops their price and then you know half an hour later the next one does and

00:20:10.540 then half an hour after that the other one does but but what is it they're actually thinking is

00:20:14.700 happening here that may be illegal potentially well i think they're probably looking at uh

00:20:19.260 conspiracy which is that uh the you know a couple of these gas stations are gathering in the dark

00:20:23.900 of night under you know dimly lit lamps on some street corner and saying hey this is the price

00:20:28.300 we're going to be setting for the next several days they may also be looking at the wholesale

00:20:32.060 price of gasoline which uh brings us into the whole ambit of you know why are wholesale prices

00:20:37.340 very similar between competitors um this of course has always been a concern that you have you know

00:20:44.140 three or four suppliers shell sorry excuse me pedro canada uh imperial being the big players

00:20:50.620 across much of canada of course our regional players irving in the east coast and uh to the

00:20:56.300 the west uh west coast chevron of course now of course which is uh uh parkland refinery in in uh

00:21:03.900 in uh in vancouver uh these are smaller players but they tend to look at the wholesale price of

00:21:09.580 gasoline they look at the canadian dollar and they come up with a a formula which basically suggests

00:21:15.420 which way the price is going to go now in some parts of the country it's usually 48 hours after

00:21:20.300 the price or 36 hours i should say after the price is settled on u.s markets uh we get a wholesale

00:21:26.620 price indication that doesn't necessarily mean gas stations need to jump on it but in most major

00:21:31.620 cities across canada they do which of course is the reason why i began predicting gas prices well

00:21:36.680 over 30 years ago um at the same time i was out writing a little report that lost in time report

00:21:44.020 of the liberal committee on gasoline price in canada you'll see uh it's about 26 years old and

00:21:48.580 yours truly was was chair of that at the time I was concerned about the loss of competition

00:21:54.180 particularly among retail gas stations however this is always going to continue to be an issue

00:21:59.640 we know that gasoline prices tend to be also diesel prices tend to be jet fuel prices tend to

00:22:05.480 be heating home heating oil prices and so where energy prices go and how their influence do with

00:22:13.380 I think not just the political direction of this country but the whole issue of affordability which

00:22:17.980 something i've been on for several years as you can see from above i have every expectation that

00:22:23.260 the competition bureau of course is being guided by new uh mandates uh the mandate of course would

00:22:29.500 be uh you know nudge nudge wink wink we uh we want to make sure that there's no green washing that 1.00

00:22:35.660 is to say people making claims that they're doing something clean uh quote-unquote uh anti-fossil

00:22:40.540 fuel uh when in fact they're not uh and so i think the the bureau itself has now gone from

00:22:45.900 being a defender, a cop on the beat when it comes to competition, to bringing in and inviting some

00:22:53.640 of the political partisan considerations, including climate change and, of course,

00:22:57.980 all the issues, the many taxes that go with it, Andrew. How many independent variables are there

00:23:04.420 that are inputs to gas prices in Canada? You have to watch in Canada, Eastern Canada,

00:23:11.840 So Atlanta, Canada, Quebec and Ontario tends to follow the New York mercantile exchange or the market at New York is where our wholesale price comes from.

00:23:22.200 And that varies by day. So if we're on a daily today where it's up a couple of pennies, that could mean a one cent increase.

00:23:27.960 A couple pennies a gallon could mean a cent or two increase come 24 hours, 48 hours from now.

00:23:32.980 So we're likely looking at a scenario where that would happen by Friday.

00:23:36.540 um western canada so from thunder bay if you can believe it or not right up to the uh right up to

00:23:42.780 vancouver's uh limits uh the lower mainland is another market and that's really driven by the

00:23:48.160 chicago spot market and of course we have the vancouver lower mainland and victoria so vancouver

00:23:54.940 island is also influenced by what's called the pacific northwest uh market and that of course

00:24:00.420 means whatever happens in the united states tends to be the price we're going to pay within 48 hours

00:24:04.760 at least gas stations will be forced to pay and including you have to include in that of course

00:24:09.000 the value of the Canadian dollar very important to recognize because Andrew is many people tend

00:24:13.880 to overlook in their so-called you know millions of dollars in federal government subsidies to come

00:24:18.760 up with these studies that surprise nudge nudge wink wink antenna support the government's position

00:24:24.840 they tend to overlook the fact that Canadian dollar continues to sink in 137 pennies to buy

00:24:30.760 one us dollar adds about 24 to 27 cents a liter to the price of gasoline and that's not even

00:24:36.280 including the issue of taxation they not the one but the two carbon taxes that we now have in

00:24:40.360 canada and to go back to the retail aspect of this how much latitude do uh gas companies have

00:24:48.360 do you know pumps pump stations have in their prices when these are going up and down i know

00:24:54.040 costco you know locally is notoriously good for having a few cents uh less but but but how much

00:24:59.320 of a buffer do they really have to to pad that out if they want to undercut their their competitors

00:25:04.760 well you have to look at what's called a retail margin and you have to look at your market if you

00:25:08.440 have a lot of people coming through so what they call throughputs you have a lot of uh you know

00:25:12.360 20 30 000 liters a day and you have several hundred cars coming in then you know your your

00:25:17.240 margin doesn't have to be as high it could be seven six five cents at costco or you have other

00:25:22.120 ways of cross-subsidizing that as costco would for instance with uh you know with uh uh rewards

00:25:28.520 programs or better yet uh you know you paying 60 65 a year to uh to have access to their pumps i

00:25:34.760 can't just walk into their pumps without showing my you know my costco uh uh membership uh before

00:25:40.920 getting that so that's a bit of an advantage also the amount of fuel you can use if you can walk in

00:25:45.960 and say hey listen i can move a million you know liters of gasoline and one given a week or diesel

00:25:50.760 the equivalent or supreme you're going to get the attention of the refiner because the refinery runs

00:25:56.200 you know 24 7 365 days a year and so uh those who can move volumes tend to get a little bit of a

00:26:02.600 better discount than say you know barney's bait and tackle and uh you know gasoline emporium uh

00:26:07.640 would uh in an off-site you know situation where they don't get a lot of traffic nevertheless it

00:26:12.920 takes everyone pays within a few cents the same for wholesale price of gasoline there are discounts

00:26:18.520 casco costco might get on a day like today where they rack price that the so-called wholesale price

00:26:24.120 uh you know say for uh regina being a dollar 4.9 might be buying it for 99 cents so they get five 1.00

00:26:30.120 cents off any competitors in the area because of the large volumes they can move they still have

00:26:35.400 to have a retail margin in order to cover the cost of honoring credit cards cost of uh you know of

00:26:41.640 keeping the plaza open paying the staff or whoever is there and that's why you know you can't do

00:26:46.760 these things for free we often see many variations in prices across the country even within cities

00:26:52.840 where some gas stations tend to have a lower price than others they hope that they can get

00:26:56.520 more attract more to their station by you know lower slightly lower prices but the really i

00:27:02.120 think the story here and i've said this for some 30 odd years now is that the real competition is

00:27:06.760 at the retail level the last eight or nine cents a liter and that's what it comes down to eight or

00:27:11.160 nine cents is all the gas station has control over and so you know if they suddenly remove that after

00:27:16.520 5 p.m in a given afternoon and have zero margin they're running seven cents lower than everyone

00:27:21.480 else obviously they're going to get most of the traffic and there are many websites some which

00:27:25.980 i've worked with in the past gas buddy for instance which are devoted to letting people

00:27:29.760 know when that happens how that happens where the best deals are i wanted to just in in the last

00:27:35.000 couple of moments i have with you here point you to this tweet ryan turnbull who's a liberal member

00:27:39.180 of parliament had shared uh this he says a new report says canadian carbon tax did not cause

00:27:45.000 hike in gas prices or inflation the conservatives will deny this at all costs they just can't handle

00:27:50.880 the truth. So I would say, and I think you would agree that we can't say every increase in gas

00:27:57.480 price has been attributed to the carbon tax, but the design of the carbon tax was to increase gas

00:28:03.280 prices. That was the point of it. So I don't know how the liberals are saying that there is no

00:28:07.740 connection to increases and the carbon tax. It makes no sense. And I was member of parliament

00:28:12.520 for Whitby for several years. So, I mean, I know where Mr. Turnbull is trying to come from,

00:28:16.860 but when you get an organization that you pay 35 or 50 million 52 million to to come up with some

00:28:22.160 kind of weird study that doesn't include some experts who know what the hell they're talking

00:28:25.560 about i.e me uh you know that there's a problem and uh you know that this is uh from a political

00:28:31.260 point of view and i'll put my 18 years as a liberal member of parliament uh hat back on

00:28:34.920 and say either you do want the carbon taxes to work to deny and to encourage people to or

00:28:40.820 discourage people from buying fossil fuels or you don't and uh so it's an argument if he's making

00:28:46.520 the argument this isn't inflationary, then it obviously is not working, which brings into

00:28:50.280 question Mr. Turnbull and the Liberal Party's attempt at trying to suggest that carbon taxes

00:28:55.000 are indeed useful. In fact, they're extraordinarily expensive. Canadians understand that. Most do not

00:29:00.940 get back what they put in and we're not just talking about fuel for transportation, but also

00:29:05.200 energy costs, things like keeping your home heated and the cost generally as it cascades

00:29:10.980 through the economy of all these things. Now, we have a country with two carbon taxes,

00:29:14.260 British Columbia being a very good example where you have 17.61 is the first carbon tax the second

00:29:19.940 the clean fuel standard the BC LCFS is short for BC low carbon fuel standard about 18 19 cents a

00:29:28.820 liter now and that's gonna be surprising I fought the government over there many years ago on this

00:29:33.220 point when they said there was 12 mystery cents it's actually about 18 or 19 now and that's

00:29:37.620 because the cost of a credit carbon credit which is about 500 which British Columbia is very

00:29:42.580 transparent about it's 500 bucks per credit for every 110 dollars is four cents a liter so for

00:29:48.020 that's according to the federal government's own uh um uh rias or uh regulatory implementation act

00:29:57.060 uh study so for every 110 dollars of carbon credit which is 500 today in british columbia

00:30:02.740 it's four cents four cents times uh a break in 110 into five from 500 you're talking uh

00:30:11.060 15.8 plus gst so you're about 18 cents a liter roughly for the second carbon tax that's what's

00:30:17.220 adding the cost of living more importantly last year at this time canadian dollars 131 pennies

00:30:22.340 to buy us dollar today 137 that's adding about two cents a liter the price of gasoline that's

00:30:27.380 a function of the fact that the world has very little interest in buying canadian commodities

00:30:31.540 and canadian currency it's a a tragedy uh before i let you go dan when should i fill up

00:30:36.740 well this weekend looks pretty good i would say uh by friday you'll see prices drop a little bit

00:30:42.500 more than they are now and right across the country an average decrease of about two cents a

00:30:46.260 liter so i'm waiting until friday to fill up uh some can get it take advantage of this tomorrow

00:30:50.660 if you're atlantic canada i've just given the information out there uh diesel down two cents

00:30:55.300 gasoline down 1.5 that's likely to be good for thursday and friday quebec ontario uh it's pretty

00:31:02.340 much the same down about a penny and of course western canada you've seen prices spike up they're

00:31:06.980 likely to drop about two cents a liter uh with the lower mainland vancouver staying in the 181 183 range

00:31:13.700 all right well you heard it here first first everyone uh dan mctagg president of canadians

00:31:18.020 for affordable energy thanks so much for coming on dan really good to talk always a pleasure thanks

00:31:21.540 for having me andrew all right dan was always back when i work in talk radio dan was always

00:31:25.140 like our favorite radio guest because it was like again like everyone would call in and be like wait

00:31:29.460 I need to know what's happening with gas prices.

00:31:31.220 Get Dan on, get Dan on.

00:31:32.600 So it's good to have him on this show as well.

00:31:35.560 So we will turn from one thing

00:31:38.140 that is costing you money to another.

00:31:40.000 There are no shortage of them in this country, sadly.

00:31:42.860 This one's a little bit wonky.

00:31:44.180 So every now and then I do one of these topics

00:31:45.740 where I'm kind of geeking out in a little way

00:31:48.240 because it's an issue that I've always been

00:31:50.580 banging my head up against the wall

00:31:51.720 that I can't get other people to care about.

00:31:53.300 So today I'm hoping you'll join me

00:31:54.880 in caring about this.

00:31:56.620 Interprovincial trade.

00:31:57.600 And if I haven't put you to sleep by that,

00:31:59.040 Do pay attention because it is costing the Canadian economy about $200 billion a year, according to a new report from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

00:32:08.700 If you want to know how it relates to you, six years ago there was a Supreme Court ruling that basically said you cannot take beer from Quebec to New Brunswick.

00:32:16.520 So if you find cheap beer on one side of the border, you are not allowed to take it to your home in New Brunswick.

00:32:22.040 That was the famous Camo case, which is important because the Constitution is so very clear that there should not be any trade barriers domestically in the country.

00:32:31.880 Yet we have so many of them, provinces that are treating their own economies as separate from others, and when we are all part of the same country here.

00:32:39.400 But it is coming, like I said, at a cost.

00:32:41.920 I want to welcome into the show to talk about this from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the Director of Alberta and Interprovincial Affairs, Keeley Lepke.

00:32:51.180 Keely, thanks for coming on today.

00:32:52.580 Good to have you.

00:32:53.520 Thanks for having me.

00:32:54.860 So what are these barriers and why are they there?

00:32:58.200 Yeah, well, good question for sure.

00:33:00.780 There's lots of them and they differ from province to province.

00:33:04.140 But we're seeing barriers with regards to certain sectors.

00:33:08.560 We're seeing barriers to the free movement of labor across the country.

00:33:13.180 So if you're certified to work in one part of the country, that doesn't automatically mean you can start working in another part of the country.

00:33:20.280 Services. It's not just easy to pick up your business and move to another part of the country

00:33:24.280 and start operating your business in other areas. And with the flow of goods, we know that we can't

00:33:30.120 get all different types of products from all provinces and territories into our home province.

00:33:34.920 It's not as simple and straightforward as that. So lots of barriers exist across the country that are

00:33:40.600 hurting Canadian businesses as well as consumers at a time when affordability is top of mind for

00:33:45.080 many people it is and you know i'll ask in another way of where these costs come from like so that

00:33:52.440 200 billion dollars a year that's a pretty significant number where what's what's contributing

00:33:56.040 to that so you know there's there's quite a few examples but really by eliminating internal trade

00:34:01.720 barriers we can improve camda's productivity by allowing businesses to transport goods and services

00:34:06.760 more easily more cheaply um you know reduce delays caused by differing provincial regulations

00:34:13.320 have access to a wider consumer base,

00:34:16.540 thereby increasing sales and efficiency.

00:34:18.800 So all those things together add to up to that $200 billion.

00:34:23.500 Things like increased competition, reduced red tape,

00:34:26.500 enhanced innovation, all playing a role there.

00:34:29.800 So, I mean, for small and medium businesses,

00:34:32.480 like a lot of them I'm assuming would just say

00:34:34.820 it's not worth the hassle and just close off to other provinces.

00:34:38.700 I mean, the alcohol market is a great example of that.

00:34:41.820 like it's just so cumbersome and burdensome to deal with the regulations a lot just don't even

00:34:45.880 bother yeah absolutely what we're hearing from our small business owners in many cases it's

00:34:50.560 actually easier to trade with the united states than it is to trade with um your neighboring

00:34:55.200 province or territory um so that's a really big indication that people need to pay attention to

00:35:00.280 this issue at the political level especially um but alcohol is an issue that just is ridiculous

00:35:06.100 um you know when we're making international headlines as a country because we can't move

00:35:11.080 of alcohol products freely within country,

00:35:15.600 that's a serious problem.

00:35:16.840 And there has been some minor steps to fix that,

00:35:21.220 but it's certainly not all the way there

00:35:23.180 and there's lots of room for improvement.

00:35:26.240 So what would need to happen to fix this?

00:35:29.760 Because as I understand it,

00:35:30.980 it isn't even just one single federal policy say

00:35:34.120 that's causing all of these problems.

00:35:35.500 It's every province that has its own

00:35:37.760 pseudo protectionist regime basically.

00:35:41.080 So there's a role for each of the provinces to play when it comes down to this, how they're currently going at fixing these barriers is by going to a table called the RCT.

00:35:52.240 The RCT was created under the Canada Free Trade Agreement, and it's basically a table where they come together, they identify barriers and they sit and argue about, you know, whose regulations and rules are the best.

00:36:04.240 So if you think about first aid kits, for example, prior to the RCT, first aid kits were different in each province.

00:36:11.060 And if you had a business that operated across multiple provinces and territories, you had to make sure that your employee had access to that province's first aid kit.

00:36:20.480 So if you think about a truck driver who required a first aid kit in their vehicle, they would have to have multiple different first aid kits to be in compliance.

00:36:29.560 So what provinces did is they came to the table and argued about who had the best size of Band-Aids

00:36:34.200 and they came to an agreement on who had the best first aid kit, you know, and now it's been decided

00:36:39.480 seven years later that we have one first aid kit across the country. Great, but that's way too slow

00:36:45.320 to be removing some of these barriers. So what CFIB is recommending is something called mutual

00:36:50.200 recognition. Instead of coming to an agreement all sitting around the table fighting over Band-Aid

00:36:55.160 sizes let's just say you're in Alberta business and you want to use a BC first aid kit no problem

00:37:01.320 we recognize that that BC first aid kit is good enough for folks here in Alberta um you know we

00:37:07.720 are not so different as a country we do have unique differences um in the different regions

00:37:12.120 and whatnot but we are not so different that um first aid kit should be viewed so differently

00:37:16.760 across the country there's many examples of that all right well definitely something we should

00:37:22.920 keep an eye on and yeah, call your MPP or your MLA or your MNA. I think those are all, I think

00:37:27.460 those are all three. Uh, I'm in Ontario. It took me like years to learn and they weren't all MPPs,

00:37:31.880 but anyway, uh, great, uh, great topic. And hopefully we'll get some change on this in

00:37:36.220 the future. Akili Lepke, thank you so much for coming on. Good to talk to you.

00:37:39.800 Yeah. All right. Uh, that is a fascinating, like, okay, maybe not fascinating topic,

00:37:45.860 but it's an important topic. And, and that Kamo case was great because it illuminated exactly

00:37:51.000 how absurd it is that a guy who lives in New Brunswick that, you know, wants to go and buy

00:37:55.000 some cheap beer in Quebec then gets pulled over and fined once he crosses the Quebec-New Brunswick

00:38:01.260 border to get back home because, you know, heaven forbid you carry beer across a provincial line

00:38:06.660 as though it's, you know, like the Berlin Wall or something. But anyway, that does it for us for

00:38:11.900 today. We'll be back tomorrow with more of Canada's most irreverent talk show on True North. This is

00:38:16.700 the Andrew Lawton Show. Thank you. God bless and good day to you all. Thanks for listening to the

00:38:21.960 Andrew Lawton Show. Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

00:38:46.700 We'll be right back.

00:39:16.700 We'll be right back.

Juno News - July 24, 2024

Trudeau's ban on independent journalists comes back to bite him

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