Juno News - Trudeau told Ford police didn't need more ＂tools＂ to deal with protests

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:05.720 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:13.960 Hello and welcome to you all.

00:00:16.680 This is another edition of Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show,

00:00:20.600 The Andrew Lawton Show, here on True North on this Wednesday, November 9th, 2022.

00:00:26.360 A happy birthday to my brother.

00:00:28.940 I don't know if he's listening or watching.

00:00:31.660 If he's not, then I guess it was just a good way of telling you all that happens to be my brother's birthday today.

00:00:37.380 But let no one say I don't acknowledge the important moments.

00:00:40.860 I'll send him a text once I get off air, just in case.

00:00:43.900 But I do want to talk today about, we have a lot.

00:00:46.720 Jamil Jumaane is going to be here in just a little bit to talk about how he failed to rise up to Bell Media's expectations of him

00:00:54.900 being the token black man on their flagship radio station in Toronto and it ended up costing him his

00:01:02.320 job. He's now suing Bell Media and we will talk to Jamil about that now. He certainly has landed

00:01:08.320 on his feet. He's the president of the Canada Strong and Free Network and is doing fantastic

00:01:13.080 work over there. Also going to talk a little bit later on about the potential return of masks.

00:01:19.340 We're already seeing little bits and pieces of it here.

00:01:22.440 The University of Waterloo has plunged its classrooms back into mask mandate paradise.

00:01:28.440 And we are seeing some health units start to talk about masking.

00:01:31.880 So that'll be something that we need to definitely keep an eye on.

00:01:35.880 It's the only thing that is not covered when there's a mask mandate.

00:01:38.800 You can see out of your eyes and that's about it.

00:01:41.720 And we are also going to talk about the Public Order Emergency Commission.

00:01:45.020 Now, let me say, first off, there was a bit of an unexpected turn of events today, and I'm not in Ottawa, so I didn't see it in person, but I saw the clip going around just like all of you did, where one of the lawyers who represents the commission, he represents the Public Order Emergency Commission, actually collapsed midway through his examination of the witness.

00:02:08.980 Now, this gentleman, Monsieur Poliquin, is not clear actually what condition he's in right now.

00:02:15.920 The commission has said to protect him and his family or out of respect for him and his family,

00:02:21.220 no details will be released about his health.

00:02:24.740 That is something that we are going to respect.

00:02:27.060 And I mean, obviously, these things happen and not often.

00:02:30.020 And we hope he's OK and send our thoughts and prayers.

00:02:32.840 But it was an interruption in the proceedings.

00:02:35.420 That witness is going to testify tomorrow.

00:02:37.860 and the commission has reconvened I think as of about an hour ago but they've done it with a

00:02:43.800 different witness so they've just rearranged the schedule a little bit but again when you have

00:02:47.920 something going on like this this is the inevitable byproduct things will come up you have to work

00:02:53.000 around them what I'm very interested in is what happened yesterday when a document was put forward

00:03:01.640 to an OPP representative and this document contained a rough transcript and more of a

00:03:08.700 summary I guess of a call between Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Ontario Premier Doug Ford

00:03:14.260 when it just to contextualize it here it was February 9th so we're talking about five days

00:03:20.540 before the Emergencies Act was invoked and it was a call specifically dealing with the blockade at

00:03:26.900 the Ambassador Bridge, which we know from sworn testimony was not connected to the Ottawa protest

00:03:32.360 in any direct way. It was certainly inspired by and perhaps a copycat of, but it wasn't being

00:03:39.660 quarterbacked or coordinated by Tamara Leach or any of the folks in Ottawa. And they were talking

00:03:46.440 about this, and I'm going to let this clip speak to it. This is a lawyer, Alan Haunter, with the

00:03:51.800 Democracy Fund, reading the relevant part of this document to the witness from the OPP.

00:03:58.460 Lieutenant, you will not have seen this document before, but it's a readout of a conversation

00:04:04.040 between the Prime Minister and the Premier of Ontario. In the first big paragraph, Premier

00:04:09.780 Ford says, the bigger one for us and the country is the Ambassador Bridge and the state ground

00:04:18.460 there what i think is we gotta stop the spread of these protests he goes on to say that the

00:04:26.380 attorney general is looking at legal ways to give the police more tools do you see that

00:04:32.620 the prime minister says first of all they're not a legal protest they're occupying a municipal

00:04:40.060 street and are not legally parked you shouldn't need more tools legal tools they are barricading

00:04:47.900 the Ontario economy. And then later in that paragraph, he says, we got to respond quickly.

00:05:00.620 So that's a little bit interesting. Justin Trudeau, first off, makes a declaration that

00:05:06.960 I'm not sure is rooted in law because no one else has been able to say when this became

00:05:11.160 the case that they're not a legal protest. This is the interesting thing. They're occupying a

00:05:16.960 municipal street and are not legally parked so that is the extent of the convoys lawlessness

00:05:23.040 they were not legally parked so you can just go around and issue a bunch of parking tickets

00:05:27.100 and i guess that is the extent of the law enforcement required but what justin trudeau

00:05:31.620 said to premier doug ford on this call pmjt you can see it if you look at that summary there

00:05:36.800 that you shouldn't need more tools legal tools they are barricading the ontario economy and

00:05:43.720 doing millions of damage a day.

00:05:45.580 I'm assuming that's millions of dollars of damage a day.

00:05:47.840 Or to discuss the metric yesterday,

00:05:50.380 millions of Disney Plus subscriptions a day

00:05:52.700 and harming people's lives.

00:05:55.620 And this is, I think, incredibly revealing here.

00:05:58.800 So if this was in fact the case

00:06:01.700 that Justin Trudeau was telling Doug Ford,

00:06:03.960 you do not need more legal tools.

00:06:08.180 You do not need more than existing laws,

00:06:10.740 existing powers, existing authorities

00:06:12.720 to deal with the Windsor blockade, which was by all accounts, and certainly by economic

00:06:17.580 counts, far more disruptive than the Ottawa protests, then why was the Emergencies Act

00:06:24.120 invoked five days later?

00:06:26.760 And there's a lot in this exchange that was put forward in evidence yesterday, this readout.

00:06:33.360 It was, I should say, the government put this forward in its disclosure.

00:06:36.640 So this is a readout that came, and if you look at the email addresses on it, internally

00:06:40.760 from the Prime Minister's office, and in this discussion, what they're talking about is the fact

00:06:46.280 that Justin Trudeau seems to want Doug Ford to move in and direct police. Like, Justin Trudeau

00:06:52.840 is so used to just directing police operations himself, apparently. He's surprised when Doug

00:06:58.380 Ford says, I can't do that. And I want to read this one line here, if I can find it, where a PDF,

00:07:05.560 which is not a document in this case, it's Premier Doug Ford, says, I'm just as frustrated as you,

00:07:10.760 And if I could direct the police, I would.

00:07:14.300 There is one thing to have a protest in a city,

00:07:16.460 but when you are impacting the economy and costing jobs, it's a problem.

00:07:20.820 PMJT says, are you saying the OPP can't help?

00:07:24.100 Premier Doug Ford, I can't direct them. 0.99

00:07:26.180 I can't call them and say, get your asses in there. 0.97

00:07:29.160 I don't know if that means we lose our explicit tag, 0.99

00:07:31.300 but get your asses in there, or we have to have the explicit tag, 1.00

00:07:34.980 and kicking ass. 1.00

00:07:37.360 It's up to the OPP. 0.99

00:07:38.520 so then Justin Trudeau says does the mayor have to direct local police so in this exchange Trudeau

00:07:46.840 is basically asking which politician is able to direct the police if not you is the Windsor

00:07:53.700 mayor that has to do this so you can tell there's a bit of an attitude here where Justin Trudeau

00:07:58.460 seems to think that this is a political role and a political responsibility to tell police what to

00:08:04.000 do. And the two are commiserating about what seems to be their frustration with the OPP

00:08:09.000 not getting in there and in Doug Ford's words, kicking ass. And I don't think they mean that 0.97

00:08:14.660 in like the saying way of just doing a really good job. I think they mean actually going in there

00:08:19.540 and cracking skulls. So this is incredibly important. So I believe wholeheartedly from

00:08:26.200 reading this that Justin Trudeau knows the Emergencies Act was not necessary, that he knows

00:08:32.160 the Emergencies Act was not required to deal with what the government wanted to do, which was clear

00:08:37.780 these protests, whether they were in Coutts and Windsor, in Ottawa and Emerson, Manitoba, in Surrey

00:08:43.080 and Cornwall. And I think he knows that. I think he wanted to find a way to put police officers

00:08:49.100 more directly under his thumb. Now, technically, when the Emergencies Act came into play, the Ottawa

00:08:55.260 Police Service was still the agency in charge. But we know it got a lot more complicated, the command

00:09:01.240 structure. We had RCMP playing more of a role. We had OPP continuing to play a role. Ottawa Police

00:09:06.920 Service, of course, goes through that change in chief. And it's going to be very interesting to

00:09:12.560 hear what Commissioner of the RCMP Brenda Luckey says when she starts testifying, I believe next

00:09:19.160 week, maybe in two weeks. And it'll be interesting because it sounds like Justin Trudeau believes

00:09:23.920 wholeheartedly that it's the responsibility of politicians to direct police. So I want to know

00:09:29.800 what orders he was giving to or suggestions he was giving to Commissioner Lucky if he's so

00:09:36.180 baffled that Doug Ford isn't in there telling the OPP what to do and saying yeah why don't you go

00:09:41.300 there and why don't you clear that and arrest that person and it's very revealing into the mindset

00:09:46.500 and I think it's also revealing to the fact that he knows what police have been saying which is

00:09:51.840 that the emergencies act wasn't required and I want you to juxtapose this line of his and I'll

00:09:59.260 reiterate it one more time. You shouldn't need, this is quoting Justin Trudeau, you shouldn't

00:10:04.540 need more tools, legal tools. They are barricading the Ontario economy and doing millions of damage

00:10:11.340 a day. Now let's take a look at this montage that my fantastic producer prepared of Justin Trudeau

00:10:18.440 when he's speaking into a microphone and into a camera saying a very different thing about the

00:10:22.840 necessity of the emergencies act. Invoking the emergencies act has been necessary. Law enforcement

00:10:30.600 agencies relied on it to set up secured areas in downtown Ottawa and at border crossings. Right now

00:10:37.740 the situation requires additional tools not held by any other federal, provincial, or territorial

00:10:46.300 law. It prevented foreign money from continuing to fund illegal blockades and it's making sure

00:10:54.040 our borders remain open. It has been the responsible thing to do. From the very beginning

00:11:01.320 I offered to the commission to appear at that commission so that Canadians could understand

00:11:07.000 exactly why we had to do what we did, why we didn't enter into those decisions lightly,

00:11:12.940 but why it was necessary to restore order to Canada.

00:11:17.320 We didn't want to use the Emergencies Act.

00:11:20.100 It's never something to turn to without serious consideration.

00:11:23.920 But after weeks of dangerous and unlawful activities,

00:11:28.440 after weeks of people being harassed in their neighbourhoods

00:11:31.520 and small businesses forced to close,

00:11:34.920 after billions of dollars were stalled in trade,

00:11:38.360 putting people's jobs and livelihoods at risk,

00:11:41.880 after the National War Memorial was desecrated,

00:11:46.780 after evidence of increased ideologically motivated violent extremism activity across the country,

00:11:53.900 after a flood of misinformation and disinformation washed over Canada, including from foreign sources,

00:12:01.540 after these illegal blockades and occupations received disturbing amounts of foreign funding

00:12:09.280 to destabilize Canada's democracy it became clear that local and provincial

00:12:16.920 authorities needed more tools to restore order and keep people safe today in these

00:12:25.120 circumstances it is now clear that responsible leadership requires us to do

00:12:32.320 this oh my goodness so we've gone from yeah you don't need it you have all the powers there's

00:12:45.480 nothing additional to this is important we didn't want to do this we need to do this this i don't 0.99

00:12:49.960 want this this is not my choice i have to do it we have to do it because of foreign i don't even

00:12:54.780 know what they're talking about with foreign misinformation i think most of the misinformation

00:12:58.320 was coming from Marco Mendocino and Justin Trudeau.

00:13:01.780 All of the evil, scary financing.

00:13:03.820 Yes, because, you know, Gladys Pippins in Wallisburg,

00:13:07.220 who gave the convoy $10,

00:13:08.920 has been such a nefarious and sinister figure.

00:13:12.000 We must freeze her bank accounts 0.99

00:13:13.900 if she gets out of line again 1.00

00:13:15.760 or threaten to freeze her bank accounts.

00:13:18.340 And on it goes, this idea that this was necessary,

00:13:21.400 that law enforcement asked for it,

00:13:22.980 when even Justin Trudeau himself

00:13:25.340 in his conversations with Doug Ford

00:13:27.300 was saying something remarkably honest, which it doesn't sound like he was doing

00:13:31.260 in those clips, and saying that you have all of the powers and authorities you need.

00:13:36.580 And no one from the government has yet acknowledged what changed between that call

00:13:42.720 on February 9th and February 14th when the Emergencies Act came into play.

00:13:48.680 And quite to the contrary, we do know for a fact from the sworn evidence

00:13:52.980 that there had been progress in negotiations between convoy organizers and the City of Ottawa

00:13:59.060 in that time frame, which Justin Trudeau's office knew about, which Marco Mendicino's office knew

00:14:05.440 about, and Marco Mendicino personally knew about and was being briefed on. So if Justin Trudeau

00:14:12.320 is claiming five days before he invokes the Emergencies Act, four days before he discusses

00:14:17.400 with his cabinet and the premiers that it's not necessary it's almost as if this was a move that

00:14:23.720 the government knew it didn't need to do but contrary to its claims to the media it wanted to

00:14:29.560 do because they wanted that power to go after people's bank accounts they wanted the ability

00:14:34.600 to make an example of all of these protesters that had embarrassed the government by bringing

00:14:39.800 this message of freedom a message that was unifying people from across this country

00:14:45.000 a message that went beyond left and right and actually spoke to people in a very real way

00:14:50.120 that that message those people who brought that message had humiliated the government and they

00:14:56.880 couldn't stand for that justin trudeau couldn't stand for that and it's a shame it's a shame that

00:15:03.460 we don't get to see in real time how the government and the cabinet ministers and all of the staffers

00:15:08.940 are responding to this testimony every single day the testimony that comes out further proves

00:15:16.140 the lack of necessity behind the emergencies act all of these people police officers career police

00:15:22.080 officers well respected by government and by public and by their peers in law enforcement are

00:15:27.240 all saying that they aren't backing it up they aren't backing the government up the most support

00:15:33.640 government has gotten on this is from police saying yeah when they offered it to us we used

00:15:38.540 it, but we didn't really need it. And I think that's very telling. And I also don't think

00:15:43.720 that's the bombshell that the Emergency Zacks defenders think it is, because it's like if you

00:15:49.120 give someone a big Maserati to drive from home to the office, they're going to use it, even if they

00:15:55.760 didn't need it, even if they could have made the same trip on a bicycle, because, well, it's a tool

00:16:00.520 that's been given to them, so you might as well make use of it. And I think that is so pivotal

00:16:07.040 to this because the emergencies act is very clear it can't be something that the government could

00:16:13.260 have dealt with or law enforcement could have dealt with using existing laws and i i restate

00:16:19.520 that point almost every time we discuss this inquiry because i think it is paramount for

00:16:24.200 people to understand that the police incompetence disagreements different ideas on how best to do

00:16:30.560 it. These are not grounds under the legislation to invoke the Emergencies Act. These are not laws

00:16:37.260 that are not working. These are perhaps human failings, bureaucratic failings,

00:16:44.100 government shortcomings, sure. But it's not evidence that existing laws are unable to deal

00:16:49.680 with the crisis, whatever the crisis is. And I think more fundamental to that, I'm not even

00:16:54.580 convinced. In fact, I'm convinced that there was no emergency in the first place. And I don't mean

00:16:59.460 that just by saying that, well, I personally, Andrew Lawton, don't think bouncy castles are

00:17:04.220 an emergency. I think that the government's legislation guiding this is very clear on what

00:17:09.980 constitutes a public order emergency. And there weren't any of the criteria that the Canadian

00:17:15.120 Security Intelligence Act sets out. There weren't the criteria that the Emergencies Act sets out.

00:17:21.060 So for the most part, we are seeing no emergency to begin with. And I think that beyond that,

00:17:29.460 people need to realize that Justin Trudeau is not going to be able to get away with this if

00:17:36.040 folks are paying attention and that's the big if I've said yesterday that there is never going to

00:17:42.860 be satisfaction from people that really don't like Justin Trudeau there's never going to be

00:17:48.100 satisfaction from people that just think you know what he shouldn't have done this that people that

00:17:52.680 think he should be I don't know brought up on charges before the hag or whatever I'm not

00:17:56.260 entertaining that. What's going to happen is we will get a clear cut decision from the commissioner

00:18:01.820 or not even a decision, a clear cut report from the commissioner. And that report is going to list

00:18:07.560 all of these things that the commissioner has noted. It may not be satisfactory. It may not

00:18:12.900 come to the conclusion that yes, the emergencies act was right or no, the emergencies act was wrong.

00:18:18.180 He doesn't need to make that decision. But even if he says it's unjustified or certainly makes

00:18:24.900 that case without saying it directly. It doesn't result in anything resembling charges. It doesn't

00:18:31.000 result in anything resembling civil liability. It doesn't mean Justin Trudeau is forced out of

00:18:35.360 office. I think he should resign if that is what the decision comes back as, if for no other reason

00:18:41.660 than the standard that he set when he was defending this in the House of Commons. But I think that

00:18:48.340 what's key here for people to realize is that we're starting to see evidence that even the

00:18:53.860 government itself knew this wasn't necessary. From Justin Trudeau point blank telling Doug Ford that

00:18:59.260 to what we also saw last week or two weeks ago in the text messages exchanged between staffers in

00:19:06.100 Trudeau's office and staffers in Marco Mendicino's office saying that we need to just lean into the

00:19:11.940 narrative. They wanted this as a media opportunity, not as a national crisis needing some massive

00:19:18.440 public safety response. So we'll have more of that in the days and weeks ahead. We are on the

00:19:24.380 back half of the commission, but there are still a couple of weeks left to go here. I want to talk

00:19:29.560 about one of my favorite topics, which is talk radio. I've been a longtime talk radio fan. I

00:19:35.240 really cut my teeth in the media industry doing a daily talk radio show. And I know a lot of you

00:19:40.700 who listen to this show used to listen to me on the radio, whether it was in London and Toronto

00:19:44.420 in Calgary. And I thank you very much for that. But the talk radio of today is very different than

00:19:51.740 the talk radio of yesterday and two days ago and several years ago. And I say that with a fair bit

00:19:59.700 of sadness because talk radio used to be like the bastion of unequivocally irreverent speech,

00:20:06.540 of being able to challenge conventional orthodoxy, being able to have debates,

00:20:10.880 air controversial opinions, not for the sake of controversy, but because they are discussions that

00:20:15.700 need to be had. And it has gotten increasingly woke in Canada. And I would say there are few

00:20:21.140 better able to attest to that than Jamil Javani, who hosted a fantastic show on Bell Media's News

00:20:28.200 Talk 1010 in Toronto, although his management seemed to want it to be a lot less fantastic.

00:20:35.160 And I want to bring in Jamil to talk about this. Now the president of the Canada Strong and Free

00:20:40.340 Network. Jamil, good to talk to you, sir. Thanks for coming on today. Yeah, thanks for having me,

00:20:45.140 Andrew. I certainly share your passion for what talk radio used to be. And I mean, it's great we

00:20:50.660 have platforms like yours where we can still have some of these important conversations.

00:20:55.160 Well, we'll blow the minds of our former employers, both of whom fired each of us. But

00:21:00.140 let's talk about this because you hosted a great show on News Talk 1010. You talked about a lot of

00:21:06.400 things you introduced yourself to a lot of people who didn't know you and it was fascinating when

00:21:11.840 they fired you and and you know it was i'd say there's a bit of a purge going on in radio at the

00:21:17.400 time danielle smith i know in alberta was having some issues around the same time frame not connected

00:21:22.120 to you or your case but uh there were there were these changes and we've started to see a little

00:21:26.960 bit more about this in court documents because you are suing bell media for your termination

00:21:33.180 And the one notable one that I really want to talk about here is this accusation that Bell has made to you that you, who, as I understand it, were the only black man on the station, were insufficiently diverse for them.

00:21:47.120 That's exactly right. It's very confusing exactly what diversity means to a company like Bell, because they say they want people from different backgrounds, but they don't seem to want anyone to actually bring their perspective to their job.

00:22:00.820 So they want to celebrate, oh, this person's from this community, this person has this identity. But then when you want to talk about what's happening in the world, all of a sudden, they'd like for everyone to sound the same, which doesn't sound like diversity and inclusion to me. And I think one of the key examples of this was around all the COVID stuff.

00:22:19.280 You know, I hosted my show last year when, of course, COVID was the main thing on the news every single day.

00:22:25.980 And, you know, I'm a black man.

00:22:28.380 I come from a community where because of history and because of other reasons, a lot of people were hesitant to get the vaccine.

00:22:35.560 And Bell, like, wanted me to talk about that if I was willing to deliver the message that they wanted.

00:22:41.140 They wanted me to come on the radio and shame people and hate people and say, you know, mean things about people who wouldn't be vaccinated.

00:22:48.680 And my point of view was like, look, I mean, part of diversity is recognizing people have different life experiences. And I'm not going to attack people who make a different decision, even if it's not the same decision I made. And that was where so much of our conflict came from. And you can see even in the court documents, which I encourage people to check out on my Twitter page, I posted a link to where you can read them yourself.

00:23:10.180 they basically say like I didn't shill the Liberal Party's lines on COVID-19 and that's

00:23:17.060 one of the reasons they fired me which is kind of a mind-blowing thing to say out loud they say

00:23:21.840 on the record like I was very surprised to read it to be honest yeah in a way it was weird because

00:23:27.100 I read your initial filing and you're making all these claims which of course I should say haven't

00:23:31.620 been tested in court about why they fired you and then in their defense they basically reaffirm

00:23:37.240 everything you accused them of doing and try to put their own spin on it of course like

00:23:41.540 and one of them they say point blank in their defense filing here that you were not committed

00:23:48.280 to their diversity and equity and inclusion policies and all of that and some of the other

00:23:53.400 things they included as your alleged transgressions I found ridiculous like one of them was you had

00:23:58.780 an interview with an MP Kathy Wagenthal who didn't tow the government's line on vaccination

00:24:04.220 And you say you were supposed to be more aggressive or assertive in shouting down whatever she was saying.

00:24:10.320 And it's like Kathy Wagenthal, I've interviewed her before.

00:24:13.880 She was offering the unorthodox position. 0.93

00:24:17.800 She was challenging the position you could get anywhere else. 0.92

00:24:20.260 So the idea that you then need to silence her or rebut her, I find ridiculous.

00:24:26.660 And again, really a rejection of what talk radio used to be.

00:24:29.860 yeah i mean uh you know mp wagenthal is a duly elected member of our parliament for her to be

00:24:38.100 given an opportunity to share her perspective on an important issue seems like exactly what

00:24:42.820 the media is supposed to do we're supposed to bring forward perspectives that are influencing

00:24:47.700 public policy influencing the way politics and government work and yet bell seemed to want just

00:24:54.020 one perspective to be allowed on their airwaves which is just i mean as i said i'm surprised they

00:24:59.600 admitted it i mean they behaved that way they tried to punish me they certainly conducted

00:25:03.700 themselves like a group of people with a bias toward the liberal party but for them to actually

00:25:08.720 come out and admit it is a whole other story i mean i was very surprised and to your point also

00:25:13.400 andrew about um you know the me not sort of complying with diversity like let's be specific

00:25:19.300 about what what they wanted these guys put out last november about a year ago today they put out

00:25:25.780 a plan that was about segregation, that was about putting together diversity groups that would have

00:25:32.240 meetings based on all the Black people get together, all the Indigenous people get together,

00:25:36.460 all the white people get together. That's not diversity. That's segregation. That's literally 0.86

00:25:40.560 the opposite of diversity. You're telling people that in order to have important conversations 0.69

00:25:45.140 about our workplace as employees of Bell, we cannot do that with people who look differently

00:25:50.460 than us we have to be separated from one another and i'm i'm against diversity by saying i don't

00:25:56.380 want to be part of that like this is nuts you you know these businesses want to get into the world

00:26:02.780 of micromanaging people's identities and then when someone whether you're black indigenous a woman

00:26:08.940 part of the lgbt community whatever it is even if you're a white guy they want to tell you how

00:26:14.060 you're supposed to think about yourself and the political views you're supposed to have that's not

00:26:18.940 business that's creepy weird approach to diversity and the idea that i was a problematic employee

00:26:26.060 because i thought as an individual i should be treated with respect that's nuts and that's really

00:26:31.020 at the crux of the lawsuit which is like our business is allowed to treat people this way i

00:26:35.500 believe it's against the law and i believe it's illegal and you know we're that's exactly why

00:26:39.980 i'm taking them to court when you were hired was there ever a sense that you had in your discussions

00:26:46.300 with them, either formally or informally, of what they wanted you to be and what they wanted you to

00:26:51.420 say, whether it was a particular position or a particular issue? Or did they just look at you

00:26:56.600 and, you know, based on a couple of interviews you'd done and perhaps your book and things

00:27:00.280 you'd written, just assume that they had you figured out and they knew where you were going

00:27:03.880 to go once you were on air? Yeah, I mean, I think there were a lot of people there who I would say

00:27:09.300 have a very simplistic sense of how to work with people who come from a different background or

00:27:14.820 perspective than them. And so some of those people, like there's one particular manager named

00:27:19.840 in the lawsuit and Bell names her in their statement of defense, Hillary White, ironically

00:27:25.220 named, who had a very big problem with me and was constantly trying to, in my view, intimidate me 1.00

00:27:32.960 and try to like force certain perspectives on me. And when I tried to speak up for myself and you

00:27:38.900 can see the dysfunctional workplace at Bell in other examples, like with Lisa Laflamme, for

00:27:43.820 example. Danielle Graham is another person who's got a lawsuit against Bell over some of these 0.82

00:27:49.160 issues. They try to punish you into submission, into compliance. And I don't think that's actually

00:27:56.160 what a healthy workplace is supposed to be like. So it was very difficult. There was a manager

00:28:01.720 there who did, I think, try to have a genuine, honest understanding of diversity. His name was

00:28:07.300 Mike Bendixon. And he was fired a couple months before I was. And I don't know exactly why. But

00:28:13.740 I can tell you that when they let him go, you know, it just the one manager who seemed to have

00:28:19.040 a healthy view on these issues was gone. And all of a sudden, the place just started to fall apart.

00:28:24.280 And that's, you know, and then they blame the employees for that. And it's like, well,

00:28:27.780 maybe management should take some responsibility for some of this dysfunction.

00:28:31.620 now it's funny because in bell's response they talk about the diversity issues and the fact that

00:28:38.440 you misgendered demi lovato or something and they they go on with some of these other things we've

00:28:43.440 discussed and then they say oh yeah and his ratings were bad was that ever something that

00:28:47.260 was brought to you no in fact you know as i mentioned i only had one ratings period that i

00:28:54.360 was uh able to uh do the show for before uh i was fired and suspended and all these other things

00:29:01.600 went on so that one ratings period they gave me a bonus for because of the the performance of the

00:29:07.660 show and i actually have an email from my boss saying congratulations so the ratings thing is

00:29:13.260 very weird i mean the reality is as i'm sure you would imagine you know ratings for all radio went

00:29:18.320 down during covid because people weren't commuting to work in their cars as much so i think what

00:29:24.240 Bell's trying to do is act like that was sort of my fault as a way to justify the firing. But here's

00:29:29.860 what I would say to you, Andrew, if there was a business reason to let me go, why are they bringing

00:29:34.300 up all these other things? Like if it was just about business, why couldn't they just say his

00:29:38.060 ratings are bad? We had to let him go. Most people would accept that. And if that were the honest

00:29:42.420 reason that I was fired, I, you know, why were we having these arguments? Like they mentioned all

00:29:47.940 these other things about diversity and Justin Trudeau and Kathy Wagenthal because it wasn't

00:29:53.320 about ratings and that they felt the need to address all these other issues because their case

00:29:58.200 based on ratings is so weak and you'll even notice and again i encourage anyone you can read bell's

00:30:03.720 statement of defense in their own words go on my twitter page and you'll and i post it there and

00:30:08.440 you'll read it and see they actually present no evidence to back up their claim about ratings at

00:30:12.840 all it's literally they just say it there's yeah it's just like a line basically that they just

00:30:17.160 sort of just throw out there and see yeah there's no quotation there are no numbers there's no

00:30:21.320 actual information given. Where do they have information? Well, they've got quotes when it

00:30:25.560 comes to me not defending Justin Trudeau. They've got quotes when it comes to me not taking their

00:30:31.040 position on Demi Lovato and her journey in self-identification. They've got examples for

00:30:37.560 that, but no examples to ratings, right? So it's a very bizarre approach they've taken. And it

00:30:42.520 seems to me, in my personal view, they've underestimated how much Canadians expect media

00:30:48.200 to have some sort of credibility some uh objectivity some effort to be middle of the road

00:30:54.960 i think a lot of canadians expect that i don't think that bell is offering them that in their

00:30:59.600 media coverage radio is a cartoonishly precarious industry i think like the line when i started out

00:31:06.400 is that you hadn't made it in radio until you had been fired like some of those old time radio guys

00:31:11.180 would you know get fired on monday morning and they'd be somewhere else tuesday afternoon

00:31:14.860 And I think stations have the right to put whatever they want on air.

00:31:18.660 And I know you're a free market guy, so you'd agree with that as well.

00:31:22.060 Let me just ask then, what is the core of your issue?

00:31:25.600 Is it, you know, the fact that they, you know, canceled you for these reasons, or is it something more fundamental?

00:31:33.220 Yeah, I mean, the core of the issue is they created certain expectations of me as an employee based on my race,

00:31:40.720 based on my the community i come from based on you know the color of my skin or you know my my name

00:31:48.260 all these things they created unique expectations on me and then punished me when i didn't meet

00:31:54.040 those expectations that is i think by most uh definitions racism it is racist to say because

00:32:02.320 of what you look like you have to do your job a certain way and when you don't stay within the 0.97

00:32:06.980 boundaries we give you, we punish you for being the wrong type of black person. That is what the 1.00

00:32:12.300 crux of the issue is for me. As I said before, I do believe that in businesses, I do believe in

00:32:18.700 capitalism. A lot of the good things about our country are the results of us embracing free

00:32:24.440 market economics. At the same time, I'm also a believer in people being treated as individuals.

00:32:30.880 I'm a believer in equality before the law. And you cannot, whether you're on the left in this

00:32:36.900 case or you're on the right, whatever the example would be, decide you're going to treat people

00:32:41.680 differently based on what they look like. And that is fundamentally wrong, in my opinion. And

00:32:46.800 that's why I decided to bring this case forward. I think that we've gotten to this point where we

00:32:51.240 believe liberals and people on the left, like the management at Bell Media, are allowed to get away

00:32:57.340 with racism. And then they accuse everyone else on the other side of being the racist. And I'm

00:33:02.360 saying no no you guys are the racists you're treating me differently because of what I look

00:33:07.040 like because of who my father is because where my father comes from and that's not right and we're

00:33:12.180 going to deal with that through the court system you know this may shock people in this colorblind

00:33:17.220 world but I'm not black so I don't have the uh you know the experience of being a member of that

00:33:21.940 community but and again I don't even like talking about people in in terms of communities because

00:33:26.820 people are individuals and that seems to be the issue they had with you that you were an individual

00:33:31.980 And that, you know, your community certainly colors and shapes your perspective, but it doesn't confine you to one particular perspective.

00:33:40.840 And I feel that it's just so laughable that this idea of diversity, this idea of having more voices represented from a variety of backgrounds, which is important, only extends when those voices say certain things.

00:33:55.700 Yeah, and that's exactly the problem.

00:33:57.020 i mean i have email documentation of bell encouraging me to talk about vaccine issues

00:34:04.300 in the black community they brought me on ctv news to talk about the issue

00:34:09.340 but they wanted you to do a psa basically they wanted to promote vaccination to people in the

00:34:13.260 black community exactly but as you said andrew i'm a human being so i know that when i take that

00:34:18.860 responsibility on i have to do that with integrity and part of doing that with integrity is showing

00:34:24.460 respect to people in my community who have a different point of view. And then when I go on

00:34:28.960 the radio and show respect to people who make a different decision, then I'm being punished for

00:34:34.020 it. Well, you can't control a person that way. That is fundamentally wrong to say, we're going

00:34:39.420 to use your race when it's convenient to us. But then when you want to show respect to people with

00:34:45.140 the same identity as you, we're going to punish you for it. That is a kind of manipulation that

00:34:50.360 is only possible when you have a business like bell who thinks that they are so above any kind

00:34:56.500 of moral expectation any moral standard that they can get away with anything they want and the

00:35:02.300 reality is no matter how big and rich you are in this country no matter how big of a business you

00:35:07.500 are no matter how much power you have as a bell executive you're still beholden to the law and

00:35:12.460 that's exactly why a lawsuit is necessary here they can't get away with treating people this way

00:35:17.920 You are taking on the machine and I couldn't be happier for you, Jamil Javani.

00:35:22.660 So thank you for that and best of luck.

00:35:24.660 And just on a purely unrelated topic here, I know you've written in the past about your friendship with J.D. Vance.

00:35:30.340 You went to law school with him at Yale.

00:35:32.240 Any thoughts on his big victory last night in Ohio?

00:35:35.480 You know, I'm just happy for him.

00:35:36.820 Like, I know a lot of the coverage has sort of pointed to the fact that Republicans did not have the quote unquote red wave as many expected.

00:35:44.740 A lot of these Senate races and congressional races were more competitive than people thought.

00:35:49.380 But I knew J.D.'s wasn't going to be that competitive because he's been working his butt off.

00:35:53.620 He's been connecting with people in Ohio.

00:35:55.540 He's from there.

00:35:57.080 He's got a story that you can read about in his book, Hillbilly Elegy.

00:36:00.440 You can watch the movie on Netflix.

00:36:02.480 People know where he comes from, and he's lived through the issues that a lot of people in Ohio want solutions to.

00:36:09.240 So I'm happy for him.

00:36:10.340 I think he's going to be fantastic as a senator.

00:36:12.800 You know, I think of him as my big brother.

00:36:14.180 Like, I love the guy. And so nothing but positive vibes for me. I mean, I can't wait to see what he does when he's, you know, actually in the Senate being able to use his voice for good.

00:36:24.200 Well, perhaps you'll be able to get Senator Vance at one of the Canada Strong and Free conferences coming up.

00:36:29.280 I hope so.

00:36:30.760 All right. Pull any clout you can. Jamil, always a pleasure. Thanks very much for coming on.

00:36:35.500 Thank you, Andrew. Take care.

00:36:37.240 All right. That is Jamil Javani, president of the Canada Strong and Free Network.

00:36:41.240 And again, I should say the documents we were talking about from his court case has not yet been resolved.

00:36:47.420 The allegations have been not tested in court, but they are, as you can read for yourself in many cases, pretty much not refuted, but rather affirmed by Bell in its reply.

00:37:00.600 They're the ones that bring up the fact that he misgendered Demi Lovato by not referring to them as they or her as she, they, whatever it is.

00:37:09.800 And again, by interviewing Kathy Wagenthal and insufficiently being critical of Kathy Wagenthal when interviewing her about her views on vaccination.

00:37:19.020 So, you know, it was actually a little bit triggering for me as someone who went through this with a mainstream media company working in talk radio and finding that this place that used to be the bastion of irreverent commentary was all of a sudden becoming very much narrowed and constrained to something else.

00:37:36.920 So I'm glad to be here at True North.

00:37:39.260 And I think there's a serious point here, which is that the legacy media is not the

00:37:45.120 answer.

00:37:45.600 And I think a lot of the times people get really hung up on this belief that, you know

00:37:50.100 what, we can get the newspapers to write about this and get the TV stations to report on

00:37:53.880 this and the radio stations to do this.

00:37:56.040 And to some extent you will, because again, these still have influence, they still have

00:38:00.020 audiences, but increasingly people are supplementing their mainstream media consumption with

00:38:06.560 alternative media or getting rid of their mainstream media consumption altogether and

00:38:11.220 focusing almost entirely on independent media. So I think it's never been a more influential time

00:38:16.380 for people in alternative media or online media in general. So if you are a part of our True North

00:38:23.320 family here, we thank you so much and would encourage you if you want us to keep doing this

00:38:27.640 to financially contribute either with a one-time donation or you can become a monthly subscriber

00:38:33.740 and join our Insiders Club.

00:38:35.140 You can do all that at donate.tnc.news.

00:38:38.900 That does it for me for today.

00:38:41.280 I just want to give a very, very special acknowledgement

00:38:45.100 to our veterans out there, those of you who tune in.

00:38:49.460 I know that Remembrance Day is about the fallen,

00:38:51.540 but I also think we need to thank the living as well

00:38:53.740 and certainly thank the fallen for their sacrifice.

00:38:56.860 So I'm a couple of days early, but I will say lest we forget.

00:39:01.060 Thank you, God bless, and have a good weekend.

00:39:03.740 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:39:06.360 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - November 09, 2022

Trudeau told Ford police didn't need more ＂tools＂ to deal with protests

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