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Juno News
- November 03, 2022
Trudeau’s crumbling case against the Freedom Convoy Pt. II (Ft. Ari Goldkind)
Episode Stats
Length
31 minutes
Words per Minute
165.2994
Word Count
5,165
Sentence Count
353
Misogynist Sentences
3
Hate Speech Sentences
8
Summary
Summaries are generated with
gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ
.
Transcript
Transcript is generated with
Whisper
(
turbo
).
Misogyny classification is done with
MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny
.
Hate speech classification is done with
facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target
.
00:00:00.000
If the Emergencies Act powers were granted in the most limited way, the tow truck drivers
00:00:06.220
were forced, go get rid of the big rigs, line them up, tow, maybe I'm okay with that.
00:00:13.140
But when you start freezing the ordinary bank accounts, the non-money laundering, tax evading,
00:00:20.740
I mean, this is a country where 27 million people out of about 30 something pay taxes.
00:00:25.360
Most evade taxes. The money laundering in this country is insane. Check the housing markets if
00:00:31.460
you don't believe me if you're in Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal. But when you have ordinary
00:00:36.000
people giving 25 bucks or 50 bucks to a cause that they believe in to protest mandates and
00:00:43.080
lockdowns, which look at where the science has us now. Just look at where the science in quotation
00:00:48.840
mark, science trademark, has us now. That to me is where the Emergencies Act became disgusting.
00:00:57.460
It wasn't limited in its scope. It was an excuse for Freeland to go do what she wanted to do
00:01:03.320
in her plutocratic way, which by the way, is a betrayal of who she was 11 or 12 years ago.
00:01:09.380
As a journalist, that too.
00:01:10.920
As she wrote her book. So for me, full disclosure, I have trouble believing something was a terrible
00:01:18.420
crisis emergency in a civilized Western country because a downtown part of Ottawa was messed up.
00:01:27.180
And look, I sympathize with the people who had to hear the horns. I do. But when you have on the
00:01:33.100
weekend or week of the emergency being invoked in Ontario, let's not just call it Canada,
00:01:37.780
in Ottawa, Ontario, but the premier of the province is snowmobiling. He's out snowmobiling. I'm not
00:01:46.060
knocking him more power to him. I wish I had a snowmobile. But when you have the premier of the
00:01:51.520
province in the middle of this dire, federal, provincial emergency snowmobiling, you can make
00:02:00.140
all the intellectual, ideological, esoterical arguments that you want to me. I have real skepticism
00:02:07.580
that this needed to be invoked. And who backs me up on this? A lot of the OPP members who
00:02:14.280
have testified so far.
00:02:32.500
So just shifting gears a little bit, Ari, what do you think of the conduct of the inquiry so far?
00:02:40.520
What do you think of Justice Rouleau's handling of this? Do you think he's coming across as fair-minded
00:02:47.000
and impartial to you?
00:02:48.420
I think it's too early to say. I mean, look, he's a justice of the Court of Appeal. He's used to being
00:02:52.980
fair-minded and impartial. I do think that this has too much of a tinge of politics. Freedom convoy,
00:03:00.560
bad. Residents of Ottawa, good. Lawyers for Ottawa residents, good. And fighting justice and sort of
00:03:09.260
Superman versus freedom convoy people and lawyers, bad and Lex Luthor-like, that's not what the
00:03:17.120
invocation of the Emergencies Act is about. It's not about whether you like either side. I've made
00:03:24.280
this point repeatedly. I would be saying the same thing if this was a Black Lives Matter protest.
00:03:30.800
I'm not a fan of that violence. Sorry, let me use the Seinfeld not that there's anything wrong
00:03:36.700
with an addendum. The mostly peaceful protests that you always have to say. I don't care if it
00:03:43.340
was some far-left Antifa protest. If it was on the streets of Ottawa, in downtown, there wasn't
00:03:50.320
violence. There was freedom of expression, freedom of assembly. These charter rights that used to matter
00:03:56.480
or in today's day and age, the freedom to not be offended. That seems to be now like in the Bill
00:04:02.520
of Rights or the Charter is that I can't say anything that offends you. Well, if I can't say
00:04:06.900
anything that offends you, there is no free speech. There is no freedom of expression. So back to your
00:04:12.880
Justice Rouleau question. I think it's too soon to know. I think he's going to do his best to do his
00:04:20.160
best. But no judge descends from the mountaintops, Rupa. They're not immune to the politics,
00:04:27.600
the partisanship, the pressure of the day, the idea that one side is light, the other side is dark.
00:04:35.800
I always use a very cliché term, the other shoe test. If you don't think that X should happen
00:04:44.800
because you don't like X, substitute them with Y. If it was a protest, if Trump was the Prime Minister
00:04:53.600
of Canada and he flew in in his West Palm Beach 757 right into Sussex Drive and landed improperly
00:05:03.560
without permits and 50,000 people with special pink hats did the very same thing with Priuses and
00:05:11.320
Subarus and blocked up those streets in Ottawa and did all the noise and dances and megaphones and all
00:05:19.480
of that, would the very same people say that Canada for the first time in its history should have invoked
00:05:26.420
the Emergencies Act because the OPP, the RCMP, the politicians provincially, federally and municipally
00:05:33.920
were so feckless to these people with their bouncy castles or these weird charges that Tamara
00:05:40.920
Leach charges and all of these things that Justice Goodman, Justice Goodman, go back to our last
00:05:46.800
conversation for anybody who thinks this is just my view, talking about some of these charges and
00:05:53.140
how politically motivated they are. If you don't think it should be good for the goose,
00:06:00.580
you have no business thinking it's good for the gander. That being said, as you and I speak,
00:06:06.740
this is not over. There's a long way to go. I'm worried that the report will be bureaucratic speak.
00:06:14.080
I'm worried that the conclusion of the report will be so judicial, so deferential to government,
00:06:20.760
so deferential to the choices they had at the time being, we don't look at things in hindsight.
00:06:27.360
I have a feeling that will be part of the decision, which will render the whole point of the inquiry
00:06:33.100
moot. We absolutely must look at things in hindsight, and I think there will be a tremendous
00:06:40.200
amount of deference from Justice Rouleau to the liberal powers of the day, the Prime Minister
00:06:47.960
Freeland and her Deputy Prime Minister Trudeau. I think there will be a tremendous amount of...
00:06:53.820
No, no, I did that on purpose.
00:06:55.160
Okay.
00:06:55.720
That wasn't a misspeak. I did that on purpose. I think that there will be a tremendous amount
00:07:02.900
of deference. There often is in these kinds of cases, Rupa. It wouldn't be new. If the facts
00:07:11.360
lead us to Justice Rouleau... Let me add a moment of levity. I'm a WWF, WWE fan. Stone Cold Steve Austin
00:07:20.440
used to say, open a can of whoop-ass. If Justice Rouleau heard enough to say, look, this is so
00:07:26.300
serious, so much of an infringement and a front to the rights of ordinary average Canadians, the way
00:07:32.320
these people have been smeared, the bank accounts, the lack of due process, the ex parte this, the ex
00:07:37.740
parte that means without notice. If Justice Rouleau thought that, I'd be very shocked to see him write
00:07:45.060
that. And I think that's going back to what I said at the beginning of Jagmeet Singh going, well,
00:07:50.300
I'll have to see what the report says. Even if maybe the act shouldn't have been done, or maybe
00:07:55.220
we had other options, I just have to see how it's written before I decide to part ways with Mr. Trudeau.
00:08:02.360
Well, he actually said that even if the report concludes that...
00:08:06.840
His words. His words were a little bit nuanced. I have to read it first.
00:08:10.540
Okay.
00:08:10.860
He's a former criminal defense lawyer, Jagmeet Singh. People forget that. I used to see him in court.
00:08:16.020
Okay.
00:08:16.860
Now, he's gone on to bigger and better and greener pastures, muzzle-tove to him.
00:08:20.840
But that's because I'm worried about getting a 700-page report here that basically just,
00:08:29.560
even if he says there were other options or whatever, I have a feeling it will be so deferential
00:08:35.040
that both sides will be able to claim victory. And to me, that will render the whole point,
00:08:40.280
the expense. This is a very expensive process. I mean, everybody's in hotels. Everybody's there.
00:08:45.860
Everybody's there in person. Lawyers, this. Remember, they didn't want to pay for the convoy
00:08:49.340
lawyers, which was horse manure. They had to go to court to get those monies opened up. That tells
00:08:54.180
you something about this. That's an interesting point for another day, which is that you were going
00:08:58.840
to have all the money in the world for the government lawyers, but the convoy people had to beg to have
00:09:05.240
some of their money made available to them to defend themselves. Think that.
00:09:09.020
Well, I didn't know this. So can you.
00:09:11.540
Yeah. So this was a big, big story. It didn't get talked about enough, which is, it's sort of like,
00:09:17.960
you know, I don't want to be too long here. I don't know how much time we have left, but
00:09:20.660
you know, if the state charges Rupa or one of Rupa's viewers today with a crime, let's say you get
00:09:27.680
charged with a crime. Let's make it an easy crime. He said, she said, somebody says Rupa did X.
00:09:32.520
You get charged criminally. Well, Rupa, you make a little bit too much money. There's nothing to do
00:09:38.560
with what you make. You have to be way, way, way, way below the poverty line to get a lawyer paid for
00:09:44.380
for you. The government will have endless resources to prosecute you. Endless, endless prosecutors,
00:09:51.440
endless police, endless time in court, all on the salary fully paid. You will have to pay me.
00:09:58.100
And I assure you, I'm pretty expensive to get you out of this. Now, why do I make that link? You may
00:10:05.280
be completely innocent and you would like to defend yourself. And in a liberal democratic world,
00:10:11.700
it's supposed to be a fair fight. Well, the only way it can be a fair fight is if you basically
00:10:18.240
bankrupt yourself to fight back. Look at Danny Fortin. Anybody who doesn't know what I'm talking about,
00:10:23.820
look at the machinery of the state against Danny Fortin, the army person charged with sex assault.
00:10:29.840
He's been bankrupted by his legal fees. It was a charge from 34 years ago. He's led an exemplary
00:10:36.340
life since. His cross-examination is showing there's real problem, but he's bankrupted from it.
00:10:41.640
He can't get hired, can't get a job. What's the point I make? At the Freedom Convoy or Emergencies Act
00:10:48.100
Inquiry, the government was going to have reams of lawyers, all the money in the world. By the way,
00:10:53.680
Rupa, paid for it by you and me. Yeah, of course.
00:10:56.620
The convoy people who have obviously skin in the game and a huge stake in this,
00:11:02.780
they were told they can't access the money they've raised. It was frozen via court injunction. Remember
00:11:10.480
hundreds of thousands of dollars raised? Yeah. It was frozen. That side didn't want them to have
00:11:17.920
money to be able to pay their lawyers to fight back. Think that through. Ordinary average Canadians
00:11:24.620
sent money to the Freedom Convoy people so that they would be able to afford legal representation.
00:11:32.080
So they weren't sitting there firing questions off because self-represented people or people who aren't
00:11:37.120
lawyers, they're not going to do well at this. I know people watch too much TV and see the moron
00:11:41.620
wanting to defend themselves. It never goes well. And so they had to go to court and seek an injunction
00:11:47.580
to get their own money back to level the playing field, to have legal representation, to do justice
00:11:54.400
to their cause. And the point throughout our discussion this week is if you look at the cross
00:12:00.040
examination done by people adverse in interest, adverse in interest to the government's use of
00:12:07.280
the emergencies act, you couldn't have done that without legal representation. The idea that they
00:12:12.720
had to fight to access their own money, their own money raised by their own donors was a story that got
00:12:21.140
very little attention. It came and went, but it bothered me very, very significantly as a citizen and as a
00:12:28.420
citizen. This has been bothering me for a while, Ari. What do you think of officials, politicians,
00:12:36.660
and even Chief Bell yesterday or the day before, when these people characterize the protests as
00:12:45.560
occupation and the protesters as occupiers, shouldn't they be sticking to technical legal language or
00:12:53.120
neutral language when it comes to something as big as this, which ended up being very, very polarizing?
00:13:03.680
What do you make of the fact that Chief Bell refers to the protests as occupation and the
00:13:11.880
protesters as occupiers? It almost seems like he already has his mind made up and he has an angle
00:13:20.420
here. Well, he does. He does have an angle here. He's made his own bias well known that he thinks
00:13:25.680
he needed the act and, you know, he couldn't have done it without it. But I'm going to answer your
00:13:30.400
question, Rupa, and you know when you have me on, you may get answers that you may not like and that
00:13:34.400
your audience may not like and you're well aware I don't care. I actually don't have a problem
00:13:40.340
with that term. I think he uses it because nobody's going to push back and he can,
00:13:45.920
because Freedom Convoy, bad. Citizens of Ottawa, police, good. Trudeau government, good. Freedom
00:13:53.340
Convoy, leech, conservative people, bad. White supremacist, misogynist, racist, to quote our
00:13:59.920
Prime Minister. So Steve Bell knows he has cover for that. The media is not going to push back
00:14:04.600
on that term. So he can use it with impunity. Imagine if it was a Black Lives Matter protest,
00:14:10.800
same cause, same way of doing it. Again, maybe not in big rig trucks, but same way. Park downtown,
00:14:18.640
not going anywhere. Do you think he'd call Black Lives Matter protesters occupiers? No chance. Do
00:14:24.400
you think if it was an Indigenous protest about residential schools or money or this, do you
00:14:30.360
think he'd call them that? Not a chance on the planet. But here's why my answer may run afoul with
00:14:36.680
the audience. And again, I don't care. They did occupy downtown Ottawa. It's a plain and ordinary
00:14:42.660
word. They were told to leave. They didn't. There were injunctions to leave. They didn't. They made it
00:14:48.480
clear that they're staying. Whether they should or shouldn't, that's probably a longer discussion for
00:14:53.280
today. If they shouldn't have been in downtown Ottawa, by the way, where should they be? Moose Jaw,
00:14:59.760
Saskatchewan, rainy river. If you want to protest the federal government and the federal government
00:15:07.200
destroying the country with mandates and nonsense about the vaccines. Again, I'm not an anti-vaxxer.
00:15:13.920
I'm vaccinated. Full disclosure, so nobody gets it. But if you didn't have the view that people should
00:15:19.060
be fired or lose their jobs because they don't want to take a jab that didn't prevent transmission
00:15:24.000
or infection, where should that protest happen in a free and democratic society? Again, if it
00:15:32.220
shouldn't have been in downtown Ottawa, by the way, the protest was effective. We keep forgetting in all
00:15:38.440
of this noise that the protest was effective. So many of these lockdowns, mandates, and rules changed
00:15:46.600
at the time of the convoy for right after. They won't admit it. And I see you nodding. So I think this
00:15:53.340
point brings some recollection back to you back to earlier this year. But nobody talks about that.
00:15:59.180
This wasn't an ineffectual protest. They didn't burn down police stations. They didn't burn down
00:16:05.040
Wendy's. They didn't shoot people. They didn't fight people. Everybody forgets that this was an
00:16:11.880
actually peaceful protest. Yes, you can mail me and say, oh, there were a number of charges and
00:16:17.380
weapons charges and mischief. I don't care. I think that's an ideologically pedantic argument.
00:16:23.340
But the point is, to your question, when he calls them occupiers, and again, he is a master
00:16:29.560
linguist for all of the reasons we've discussed. I'm not going to use the other term. It is completely
00:16:35.200
fine with me that he calls a spade a spade. My point to you is, it's fine that he called them that.
00:16:43.060
They weren't going anywhere. They were occupying downtown, just like Occupy Wall Street, Occupy this.
00:16:48.120
But there's no chance he would have used that term if it was a group on the left or far left. Now,
00:16:54.500
he'd never agree with me if he was here. But I must say, Rupa, in full answer to your question,
00:17:00.620
trying to be straight with every discussion I have, the use of that word does not bother me.
00:17:05.560
Yeah, no, I agree with you, Ari. I mean, occupying the streets of Ottawa, I have no problem with that
00:17:10.720
with that sentence. But I think what's happening here is that they're using this term in a denigrating
00:17:17.140
way, in a way that almost represents these people as outsiders, like an invading army.
00:17:23.060
So let me stop you. That's a good point. And that brings us to something that reflects the contempt
00:17:28.420
that we now see in Canadians. OK, I'm going to say this very clearly. And again,
00:17:33.680
you wrap me up whenever you want. I'm good. But I think you hit something that's very important.
00:17:38.240
When words like that are used, Rupa, and I feel very passionate about this. And nobody knows what
00:17:43.600
I really feel about the protests. Nobody knows. But when you use terms, I think occupant is more
00:17:50.840
benign maybe than you do. I think there are other terms used by the prime minister that these people
00:17:57.260
are white supremacists. If race had anything to do with it, I mean, look at the trucking industry.
00:18:03.640
Anybody need an explainer, an update on whether the trucking industry is white anymore? I mean,
00:18:11.060
just go to your Google machine and figure it out. Or if you're anti-lockdown or anti-vax or thinks your
00:18:17.240
kids should be in school and not becoming terrible at math and no social skills and not able to read
00:18:23.400
people's faces and visual cues and have friends and have outside time and not be glued to an iPad,
00:18:29.600
you're somehow now a misogynist, a racist, a white supremacist. There is from the highest powers
00:18:38.000
in this country, Rupa, there is, and they get rewarded for it. So don't get me wrong. It's a
00:18:44.140
political calculation. There is a war on certain segments of the middle class. It is open. It is
00:18:51.460
not hidden. There is a contempt for the ordinary average, more historically Canadian, take your kid
00:19:00.640
to hockey, go to Tim Hortons, work a couple jobs, maybe in manufacturing, maybe in your local town,
00:19:08.960
maybe you're not in IT, maybe you're not working at Intel, or something like that. There's a contempt
00:19:17.080
in this country for the people who make this country and made this country, whether you're an
00:19:23.120
immigrant and working 18 hours a day, whether you're black, whether you're Indian, there is a
00:19:29.720
contempt for people who are not insane, for people who are not woke. It is so easy, and you always see
00:19:37.140
the term white supremacist being dragged about in a country that the census yesterday described as a
00:19:43.340
quarter immigrant, none of them, by the way, 10% from Europe, down from 65%. This is a country that
00:19:50.180
is no longer white or run in that way, or white supremacist. Look at the people calling it out.
00:19:55.600
They're the people in the highest echelons of power. And so the reason that I want to say that
00:20:00.640
is because it's easy to go after the people that were in Ottawa. They're easy targets, nobody will
00:20:07.500
fight back for them, because they're worried about being called a name. And I'll make this point, which
00:20:12.440
you will say is a non sequitur, but I follow news around the world. If you look at the states, if you
00:20:18.220
look at Biden, if you look at the midterm races, there's only one race you can go after and say it's
00:20:25.200
evil. If you watch MSNBC, there's only one race you can go after and say it is evil. All of the
00:20:31.560
flyover people in Oklahoma, Arkansas, the Midwest, you can insult all of those people to your heart's
00:20:38.980
content, say anything about any other race, any other religion, any other minority, you're done.
00:20:44.400
You're toast. Why do I make this point? Look at what happened at the hurricane in Florida. You'll say,
00:20:49.820
what does that have to do with the Emergencies Act, to your point, about Steve Bell's language?
00:20:54.100
Look at the response from Ron DeSantis to the hurricane. Causeways destroyed, homes destroyed,
00:21:01.560
bridges torn out, everything destroyed, hundreds of thousands of Floridians of all voting persuasions,
00:21:10.000
their retirement, their homes, everything wiped out. Look at the response in the days after the
00:21:16.540
hurricane. Did you see Priuses showing up to fix the power grid? Did you see people in
00:21:24.080
Subarus showing up to fix the power grid? Did you see far left teachers from New York City
00:21:31.080
showing up to fix the power grid and fix the bridges? No. It's the Americans who have long been forgotten,
00:21:39.080
the guys with beards, the women that want to have children and have them get a great education,
00:21:44.880
the people that drive pickup trucks, the people that get up at six in the morning with a lunch pail,
00:21:51.880
go to work, don't get home till nine. They don't make a million off their 401k. They're never going
00:21:58.460
to run for office. They don't live on Twitter, Rupa. They're out trying to just be a decent person,
00:22:05.620
decent breadwinners, trying to get by on two jobs, shopping at Walmart. I know you may say,
00:22:10.900
and I understand why people say, what does that have to do with what we're talking about?
00:22:14.260
It takes me right back to the convoy, the Emergencies Act inquiry, the use of the term
00:22:20.420
occupier, what Justin Trudeau called them, rather than saying, they're as Canadian as you and me,
00:22:27.900
even if they don't believe in this globalist, not conspiracy, this globalist agenda,
00:22:34.160
where every move we make always seems to have a disproportionately terrible effect on the middle
00:22:41.960
class and the hardworking and the taxpaying. But somehow the Jeff Bezos's, the Mark Carney's,
00:22:49.560
the Krista Freeland's, and the Justin Trudeau's born with a silver shovel in his mouth,
00:22:55.000
they always tend to do much better. Is that just a coincidence, Rupa? I think not. That's why I think
00:23:02.340
you have to take the language that they use to describe ordinary average Canadians who are just
00:23:09.060
trying to skate by. And you compare that to the actual reality of what you can and cannot say in
00:23:16.260
this country. And to me, it's greatly depressing, if not offensive. Yeah, well, that was brilliant. I
00:23:24.440
mean, I wanted to end on that, but I'm dying to get your take. This is a final question to you.
00:23:32.340
You know, you touched upon, towards the end, you touched upon the official narrative, so to speak.
00:23:38.900
Where do you see that today? What is the state of this official narrative
00:23:43.740
today based on what we've heard so far from the public inquiry?
00:23:49.800
In terms of where I think it's going, where I think it is, just help me understand so I answer
00:23:53.940
your question better. Yeah. In terms of where it is today, given that the official narrative,
00:23:59.100
at least in large sections of the legacy media, was very, very anti-protest and that they were a bunch
00:24:06.520
of violent insurrectionists. And they were basically towing the government line on the narrative
00:24:14.740
on the protests. But, you know, you mentioned Pat Morris. Pat Morris basically, you know, discredited
00:24:23.660
this narrative last week when he gave his testimony. So I'm just wondering where this,
00:24:31.080
I feel like that the official narrative is crumbling bit by bit. And I suspect it's just
00:24:37.780
going to get worse for that narrative going forward. And I wonder if you share that view.
00:24:43.880
My prediction, and up until now, is you're right again. And I'm glad we talked about Morris.
00:24:49.100
For people who are watching us, and I hope people are watching us, for people who are watching us,
00:24:55.460
when we're done, because you can't leave until Rupa and I are done, you really should go find
00:25:00.620
Pat Morris's testimony. It's really worth watching. I know it's not exciting. I know it's not a shiny
00:25:08.200
new object. But if you're really a person of deep conscience in this country, go find the clips of
00:25:14.780
him answering those questions. To your question of where it's going, I think it is crumbling.
00:25:21.000
I never thought it was that strong to start with Rupa. So I think we're starting with sort of a
00:25:26.000
straw man or a glass house. Okay. So I have to say, I never thought it had constitutional or
00:25:32.620
foundational footing. If it did, the narrative would have been much clearer, not this Jenga mix
00:25:39.860
of building blocks and Legos that don't match. And Peter can't speak to Paul and the right hand
00:25:45.760
doesn't speak to the left. Remember, we're talking about an extraordinary act. We are not talking about
00:25:53.560
something that, you know, every four or five years comes to play, or something that every 10 or 15
00:25:58.780
years, somebody so annoying that we have to invoke this document. Okay. We're not talking about that.
00:26:04.840
We're talking about something that was meant to be as rare as the dodo bird. And if something as rare
00:26:11.060
as the dodo bird or the proverbial unicorn descended on Ottawa, just Ottawa on that day, where all sorts
00:26:18.560
of police officers, we don't need the act. We've got what we need. Yeah. There wasn't unanimous
00:26:23.560
agreement, which is why Ford's testimony is desired. Did Ford think this was an emergency or was he
00:26:29.480
enjoying his heated snowmobile? I'm being facetious. But I never thought that this was that strong. So
00:26:35.160
I think it will continue on the path it is. I think you'll see more of an attempt to smear.
00:26:41.920
As it gets worse for the narrative, you'll see more of an attempt to smear the protesters.
00:26:47.140
To your point about media, how does the narrative get out that convoy is bad,
00:26:52.680
or that vaccine mandates are good, or that Pfizer and Moderna are heroes, unless it's on the six o'clock
00:27:00.060
mainstream news or the front page of the Globe and Mail. I did a whole piece last week. Again,
00:27:05.860
I'm not going to get into it. People can find it if they want. I'm not going to plug it.
00:27:09.300
But whatever happened to investigative journalism, where the whole idea of the press was to push back
00:27:15.520
against power. The whole idea of the Globe and Mail and the Toronto Star was to push back against power
00:27:24.720
and the elites and the ivory tower. Now, in many ways, shapes and forms, they are the spokespeople
00:27:31.300
with a quid pro quo to the people in power. That bothers me. I'm not knocking it. I do a lot of work
00:27:38.640
in that area. I think the people are incredible. But what would happen if the people said, look,
00:27:44.860
we're not going to lose ad revenue. If we challenge some of this, we're not going to lose
00:27:49.840
ad revenue if we're not in lockstep with everything Justin Trudeau tells us to do. We're
00:27:56.040
not going to lose ad revenue. We're already hemorrhaging ad revenue. We don't need to be
00:28:01.760
in lockstep or spokespeople as if it's the press gallery. So to your point about the media, that to
00:28:07.740
me, we've lost that in the last 10 or 15 years with the loss of local journalism, everything moving
00:28:13.920
to Twitter. I hate Twitter, full disclosure, anti-social media. I never call it social.
00:28:18.660
It's the opposite of that. Twitter, as your colleague Barry Weiss says, and I know you think
00:28:23.440
as highly of her as I do, is the masthead of the New York Times. If we just got rid of the insanity,
00:28:29.680
which is also called wokeness, we wouldn't be in this point of view. Here's the end of my answer
00:28:36.460
to your question, the denouement, if you will. As bad as I think the narrative is, the fact that
00:28:42.880
it's crumbling or mixed, maybe I'll say mixed to be fair, I wouldn't be shocked if Justin Trudeau
00:28:49.480
turns it around. I don't think he would be as prepared, even though he was going to testify
00:28:54.940
and should and all that. And I give him credit for this. I'm not a fan of his policies. I am a fan
00:28:59.780
of his hair. I continue to be jealous of it. But the point of it is, I think he, if anybody can do it,
00:29:07.680
I think people have such low expectations of his testimony, that if anybody can turn the narrative
00:29:14.760
of the previous weeks on its side, it may be him. I may be wrong. If I'm wrong, I'm going to be happy
00:29:20.320
to be wrong. But I think that's the moment where I think the people following this will have their
00:29:27.240
expectations affected. I don't know. We'll see. We'll talk about it in the future. But that is my
00:29:34.680
sense of where this is going. Well, Ari, I mean, I hope you're wrong. And but on that very depressing
00:29:42.360
note, you know, it's been a pleasure as ever having you on the show. Of course, we're just starting to
00:29:50.180
get a sense of what's going to happen with the inquiry. But I'm so glad that you agreed to
00:29:55.120
chat with me about the public inquiry into the Emergencies Act. And hopefully, you'll be back
00:30:01.680
again to talk about it some more as as as it unfolds unfolds in the coming weeks. And thanks
00:30:08.940
for being on the show again, Ari. It's been a real pleasure. And as ever, it's been phenomenal. And I'm
00:30:15.400
sure our viewers and listeners feel the same way. It's always great to be with you, Rupa, including a
00:30:21.500
lot of viewers and listeners who I think have been long forgotten and tune into you because I think
00:30:26.320
the conversations we have, Rupa, and I feel this very sincerely, I talk about it a lot. All we're
00:30:31.560
doing is talking about what people talk about at their dinner table, but have been pressured and
00:30:36.360
intimidated into not talking about publicly. I think that hurts democracy. I think it's illiberal.
00:30:42.000
And I think it's absolutely an affront to the people that have built this country of all shapes
00:30:48.200
and sizes, all races and religions. If you can't talk publicly the way you would at your dinner table
00:30:54.080
out in the public square, there is no longer any public square. So I'm happy that whoever listens
00:30:59.880
to us and follows you took the time to listen to you and I today. Well, I'm sure they did. And
00:31:06.320
I'm really grateful that you came onto my show and I hope to continue this conversation with you soon.
00:31:12.520
Thank you, Rupa.
00:31:13.600
Okay. Take care, Ari.
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