Juno News - Trudeau’s war on Canadian energy won’t save the planet

00:00:00.000 I'm sitting down with David Hood of Geologic here in Calgary. David, good to talk to you.

00:00:05.800 Thanks for joining me today. Thanks for inviting me. So we've been asking everyone that we've been

00:00:10.160 speaking to in this, how does your company fit into the landscape? Because you're actually

00:00:14.080 part of a very unique aspect of the sector that I don't think a lot of Canadians outside of the

00:00:19.200 energy industry really know exists. Yeah, absolutely. And there's a perception that I think

00:00:25.100 a lot of people who don't know about the industry, that it's a very low-tech, old-fashioned

00:00:30.360 type industry. Nothing could be further than the truth. It is very, very leading edge. It's very

00:00:35.860 challenging. It's applying the latest technology in multiple ways. And we're just one example of that.

00:00:42.860 So what we do, we grew from a data company, because the industry consumes voracious amounts of data.

00:00:50.900 Everything it does is driven by data that was originally subsurface and provided the information

00:00:58.220 and the tools to interpret the data and apply it right across the whole cycle of the industry.

00:01:06.220 Right from exploring for oil and gas to should I buy or should I sell a company? We are just a

00:01:13.660 product that is used, or products, right through the industry from beginning in the morning to

00:01:20.880 the end. And we grew from there where we were into the, we now have an operation in London,

00:01:28.380 we have an operation in Houston, we've got a data operation in India and a software operation in

00:01:34.520 Pakistan. And this is a Calgary company that was going up against a major, major international

00:01:41.740 organization that had 85% of the market. And we had a tiny sliver of books left. Now we've got by far

00:01:49.980 the majority of the market and they have what's left. We basically just took my business away from

00:01:54.700 them, based on better data, better quality, better services, and frankly, an Alberta approach to doing

00:02:01.780 things.

00:02:01.980 So that story there is, I think a tremendous Canadian success story, not just an Alberta story,

00:02:08.240 not just an oil and gas story. It's a Canadian business that's doing such incredible things

00:02:12.680 globally. And I think it's a testament to what happens if the industry can be left to its own devices.

00:02:17.800 And you bring this into an environmental context, and you have a government and an environment of

00:02:22.960 NGOs, ENGOs that believe the industry is the problem. And that's not consistent with, you know,

00:02:30.280 the facts on the ground as you see them, I know.

00:02:32.360 Absolutely not. That's right. There is no chance of getting to a net zero environment without

00:02:39.640 the technology and the expertise from the oil and gas industry. Geothermal relies completely

00:02:46.920 on expertise from the oil and gas industry. Carbon capture and storage, the same thing.

00:02:55.480 And also lithium and helium, hydrogen, that technology is coming out of the oil and gas industry. And so

00:03:01.720 it's absolutely critical. And we all want to cut emissions. But I distinguish between the people

00:03:08.600 who are serious about it, and the people who are playing games. So the distinction I would make is

00:03:13.320 this. If you're saying that we are facing an existential crisis, then you treat it as such, and you do every

00:03:22.760 single thing you can to get to solving the problem, which we need to do. If you are saying that we only

00:03:34.520 want to do, take this solution, or that solution, or the other solution, but we don't want to use these

00:03:40.040 solutions because we don't like them, then you're telling me it's not an existential crisis. So what is

00:03:45.640 it? And I think a lot of the NGOs are taking the second approach. Like, for example, nuclear is going

00:03:53.240 to be a huge part of the solution. But some people say, well, we can't have nuclear. Well, do you really

00:03:59.480 want to cut emissions? So it's- And carbon capture, very similar things. Oh, no, we don't want that

00:04:04.440 suggestion. We don't want that solution. Right. And if you talk to the folks at Pathways Alliance,

00:04:08.760 they are hugely focused on doing that. Whitecap Resources has got a major project in Saskatchewan,

00:04:19.160 where they are capturing enormous amounts of carbon all the time. That project has actually been

00:04:26.280 using our data and our systems from way back before Whitecap bought it in. And there's tremendous

00:04:31.560 progress there. But you have to have the oil industry's part of the solution.

00:04:35.640 So what is it that is missing from this? Because I don't think anyone can really deny that a lot of

00:04:42.360 this is very ideological. They aren't interested in solutions. The stated objectives are often not

00:04:47.080 the genuine objectives here. What is it that they're not seeing? Is it that they're not recognizing

00:04:52.680 what the industry has done or that that just doesn't factor into the calculation?

00:04:57.080 I think a large part of it is, you know, I'm an engineer. A lot of the people in the industry are

00:05:03.800 engineers, scientists, and they look at it from a factual scientific approach.

00:05:09.080 As they should, I would say. It's a scientific issue. Absolutely, absolutely.

00:05:11.720 It's not a political... I mean, it becomes a political issue, but the problem is one that

00:05:15.560 at its core is about science. If you don't focus on science in the industry, you don't get very far.

00:05:21.480 But I think a lot of the people who are pontificating about this stuff have no scientific

00:05:27.560 or engineering background, and they're listening to stuff. You know, let me give you an example.

00:05:33.240 When I was a kid, I grew up around... there were shipyards everywhere back in Scotland where I was

00:05:40.200 born. There was a time when 30% of all merchant tonnage afloat worldwide was built on the clite.

00:05:48.920 You understood heavy engineering. You saw it all over the place.

00:05:52.440 Today, I think a lot of people never see it, and they have a sense that whether it comes from...

00:06:01.720 we're talking about electricity, or whether we're talking about energy generally, or whether we're

00:06:07.400 talking about food. You know, food comes from the supermarket. Energy comes from the wall socket.

00:06:14.120 And they have no sense of the heavy engineering that is required somewhere. Like somewhere has to

00:06:19.640 build... somebody has to build a power plant to make that happen. Somebody has to build a windmill to

00:06:25.160 make that happen. It doesn't just happen. And I think part of it is there's that disconnect between

00:06:30.360 an engineering understanding that used to be there and the idea that it all gets done on your phone.

00:06:37.480 Yeah, and I think that part is so key. And I mean, even when you have people arguing that we need to

00:06:41.720 transition away from oil and gas and use, you know, use all of these other means of powering things,

00:06:48.520 they don't understand what goes into creating that. I think you're right. Electricity does not start in

00:06:53.320 a battery. Electricity has to be generated somewhere and put into that battery. And

00:06:57.240 that even right there is the fundamental disconnect that I don't think a lot of people think of when

00:07:01.160 they believe that, you know, this is the future. That's right. And I used to actually work in an

00:07:06.680 electricity supply business when I was back in the UK. And the complexities of what's involved in there

00:07:12.680 are mind blowing. And you cannot just the difficulty of having a stable and reliable power source is

00:07:23.720 it's something that you take for granted, because in the Western world, people have been doing it very

00:07:28.440 effectively in a very long time, it is very easy to screw up. If and if you have a lot of intermittent

00:07:35.400 power sources, windmills are great. You know, the sunshine is great. But this doesn't work all the

00:07:44.440 time. And you have to, if you're going to rely on those kinds of sources, you're going to have to

00:07:50.440 take them from places where, for example, there's a lot of wind, or there's a lot of sun, and you're

00:07:55.320 going to have to get it reliably to places that need it with power. So you're going to need to build a lot

00:08:02.360 of grid. I have no, I have yet to see anybody present a plan that says how that grid gets built.

00:08:11.720 Even something as simple as power as generators, excuse me, not generators, transformers,

00:08:17.320 which is needed to step power, you need to step power up the voltage to transmit at long distances,

00:08:24.600 otherwise, you lose too much. And you have to bring it back down to bring it into houses,

00:08:29.080 otherwise you kill people, which is usually not seen as a good thing to do. And so you have to

00:08:34.920 have a lot of transformers, the more you have a grid. We don't have the transformers.

00:08:40.520 There is a major, major shortage of transformers globally. And partly because there is material

00:08:47.800 that is needed in there, a lot of it comes from China, and you just can't produce enough. And so,

00:08:52.200 you know, I have test-driven electric cars. I love them. They're great. A lot of fun. But if you are

00:09:00.520 looking at transferring the entire load across by electrifying everything and then putting in

00:09:08.840 intermittent power sources, you have to have a plan to get from here to there. I have yet to see one.

00:09:15.640 We were speaking earlier about geologic and what I characterize as a Canadian success story. And I

00:09:23.800 go back to your experience here. You came to Calgary. You could have gone anywhere in the world. You

00:09:27.800 could have stayed in Scotland. You chose some years ago to come here. If you were to roll your age back 0.63

00:09:35.160 to how old you were then, but you're making that decision in 2023, do you view Canada as the future

00:09:41.560 where you can build up a career in the energy sector and help build up a very prosperous and

00:09:46.680 successful company in that sector? I can't think of a better place than Calgary to do exactly the

00:09:53.560 same thing again. Even in 2023 with all of the regulatory hurdles and uncertainty, you'd still

00:09:58.680 have that optimism? There is no doubt that Canada has got a lot of things that they have to rethink.

00:10:04.200 I think in Alberta that I have never seen in the 41 years I've been here, I've never seen as many

00:10:14.120 opportunities as there are right now. Both because the industry is going to be critical going forward.

00:10:21.320 It is driving emissions down. The key thing is you need to get rid of emissions. You don't need to get rid

00:10:26.760 of fossil fuels. In addition, you add up the capability that is fear in this province for

00:10:35.240 things like carbon capture and storage and hydrogen and helium and lithium. I was told by one of our

00:10:42.680 customers that we have got the biggest potential lithium reserves in the world. I thought it was chilly,

00:10:48.040 but I'm nervous here. We have got enormous capabilities for carbon capture and storage.

00:10:54.040 Some of them biggest in the world, but partly because of our geology and partly because of the

00:11:00.840 technology. And hydrogen is another huge opportunity. There was a conference in Edmonton about three or

00:11:09.400 four months ago. 8,000 people attended from 30 countries to come to Edmonton to talk about this

00:11:16.600 desktop. So you layer on all these opportunities and there's enormous capabilities out there. Particularly,

00:11:25.800 and this is key, it's a major technology frontier. What we do all the time is we're doing advanced

00:11:34.760 technology. I keep saying to people, what our people do is they create value in a thin air. If you're a

00:11:43.800 programmer or a data person, you have got nothing except what's up here. You go, well, let's build

00:11:50.920 this. And you create value for people from there. And artificial intelligence is another area. We're

00:11:57.720 working with a number of companies to develop. Yeah, you're a knowledge company in a resource

00:12:04.600 sector here, which is particularly impressive. And so the capabilities that come from there

00:12:09.400 are going to be my boy, more names that we can do. So I'm very, very optimistic.

00:12:16.040 Well, some of your colleagues, you need to give them a pep talk. You've been the most optimistic of

00:12:19.800 them. So I'm glad we get to end on that note. David Hood of Geologic. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

00:12:25.000 Thank you, Edward. Thank you.

00:12:28.520 Thank you.

Juno News - April 27, 2024

Trudeau’s war on Canadian energy won’t save the planet

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript